Cost-Benefit Analysis: Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal

Summary

The Briefing with Jen Psaki: Cost-Benefit Analysis – Trump Enriches Billionaires, Bleeds Consumers Amid Tariff Reversal

Release Date: April 14, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki, host Jen Psaki delves into the multifaceted economic repercussions of former President Donald Trump's tariff policies. Through incisive analysis and exclusive interviews with key political figures, the episode examines how these tariffs have disproportionately benefited billionaires while placing a significant financial burden on American consumers.

Economic Turbulence Amid Tariff Reversals

The episode opens with Jen Psaki outlining the recent volatility in the U.S. stock market, attributing much of the instability to Trump's erratic tariff policies. Psaki describes Trump's actions as an "obsession with putting in place tariffs based on a completely made-up formula," leading to confusion and market uncertainty.

Notable Quote:

“Trump’s kind of weird obsession with putting in place tariffs based on a completely made up formula,” – Jen Psaki [01:10]

This tumultuous approach saw Trump initially escalating tariffs—raising those on China to 145%—only to partially retract them by allowing temporary exemptions for key electronics like smartphones and semiconductors. Despite these walkbacks, Psaki emphasizes that consumers continue to bear the brunt, with prices for everyday items remaining elevated.

Billionaires Reap Unprecedented Gains

A significant focus of the episode is the stark contrast between the financial gains of billionaires and the economic strain on average Americans. Psaki highlights a report by Bloomberg, revealing that the world's wealthiest individuals saw a combined net worth increase of $304 billion in a single day—a record-breaking surge [04:57].

Notable Quote:

“They added $304 billion to their combined net worth on Wednesday. 304 billion do.” – Jen Psaki [04:57]

This unprecedented wealth accumulation is directly linked to Trump's tariff maneuvers, with specific mention of figures like Charles Schwab and Roger Penske, who reportedly made a combined total of over $3 billion in a single day [05:01]. Psaki underscores the disparity, noting that while the richest capitalized on policy shifts, the average consumer continues to face higher costs.

Governor Andy Beshear’s Insight on Tariffs and Medicaid Cuts

The episode features an in-depth interview with Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, who provides a critical perspective on the ongoing tariff policies and the looming threat of Medicaid cuts. Governor Beshear articulates the tangible impact of these tariffs on everyday families, estimating that the newest tariffs could cost the average American family an additional $4,700 annually—a sum that can significantly disrupt budgets [13:25].

Notable Quote:

“The amount your groceries cost more because of these tariffs is the Trump tax.” – Governor Andy Beshear [13:25]

Beshear also addresses the administrative confusion surrounding the temporary exemptions, questioning whether the administration's actions stem from "incompetence or corruption" [15:03]. He strongly advocates for the elimination of tariffs, aligning with bipartisan sentiment from both Republican Senators Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul.

On Medicaid, Governor Beshear warns of devastating consequences should massive cuts proceed, emphasizing that Medicaid is crucial for supporting rural hospitals and long-term care facilities in Kentucky [17:14].

Notable Quote:

“Without those dollars, with or with a massive cut, what we will see is rural health care shut down almost entirely.” – Governor Andy Beshear [17:14]

Public Outcry and Political Response

Psaki highlights the growing public discontent with the administration's policies, noting significant protests and large rallies led by prominent figures like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. These demonstrations reflect widespread voter sentiment favoring leaders who prioritize the needs of the many over the affluent few [10:23].

Notable Quote:

“Across the country, voters are saying they need leaders who stand up for them, not for the billionaires.” – Jen Psaki [10:23]

Social Security Administration’s Controversial Move to X (Twitter)

The discussion shifts to the Social Security Administration's decision to transition all public communications to the social media platform X (formerly Twitter). Psaki, along with guest Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry, critiques this move as a significant barrier to access for seniors, many of whom are not adept at using such platforms.

Notable Quote:

“The announcement that Musk is going to move communications to X should not only be raising alarms for our communities that they're not going to be able to access information, but it is quintessential grift.” – Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry [30:10]

Stansberry warns that this shift, combined with a 90% reduction in regional office staff, will severely hinder seniors' ability to receive timely and accurate information about their benefits. The strategic move is perceived as aligning with the Trump administration's broader agenda of privatizing federal services and undermining public accessibility.

Legal Firms Under Pressure Amid Trump Administration’s Executive Orders

The episode further explores the Trump administration's impact on the legal sector, particularly how executive orders have pressured large law firms to support conservative causes. Attorney Andrew Weissman discusses the ethical dilemma faced by these firms, some of which have complied by providing over half a billion dollars in legal services to align with administration policies, while others resist, citing principles and potential long-term reputational harm [41:04].

Notable Quote:

“If President Trump's executive orders are allowed to stand, future presidents will face no constraint when they seek to retaliate against a different set of perceived foes.” – Attorney Andrew Weissman [42:03]

Weissman emphasizes that this sets a dangerous precedent, threatening the independence of the legal profession and the very fabric of democratic accountability.

Case Study: Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s Deportation and Supreme Court Ruling

A poignant segment of the episode examines the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland father who was deported without a hearing and remains incarcerated in a notorious prison in El Salvador. Despite the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling mandating Garcia's return, the Trump administration remains unresponsive, effectively shirking judicial directives.

Notable Quote:

“The Trump administration's immigration action should open up all of our eyes to just how far he might be willing to go.” – Jen Psaki [35:09]

The administration's failure to comply with the Supreme Court's directive not only undermines the judiciary but also raises alarming questions about executive accountability and human rights.

Looking Ahead: Upcoming Conversations and Continuing Coverage

As the episode concludes, Psaki teases future discussions, including an upcoming interview with House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, promising continued in-depth analysis of the evolving political and economic landscape.

Conclusion

This episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki offers a thorough exploration of the detrimental effects of Trump's tariff policies on American consumers and the economy, juxtaposed against the substantial financial gains of the nation's billionaires. Through insightful interviews and critical analysis, Psaki underscores the pressing need for policies that prioritize the welfare of the broader population over elite interests. Additionally, the episode highlights the challenges facing critical social programs like Medicaid and Social Security, emphasizing the urgent necessity for political action and public awareness.

Transcript

[Host]

And that's commercial break.

[Co-Host]

Nice.

[Host]

Ooh, hear that?

[Co-Host]

My neck cracked.

[Host]

So satisfying. Speaking of satisfying, I just use a Clorox toilet wand. Ooh.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

With the cleaner already in it.

[Host]

Yes. All in one. The brush just clicks on. Click. Then you swish.

[Commercial Voice]

Ah.

[Host]

And pops right off into the trash. Just click, swish, pop. Clorox. Clean feels good. Clean feels good. Oh, we're back.

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[Host]

Well, it's been a hell of a ride for the US Economy over the last few weeks. I mean, this past week began with the stock market continuing its no nosedive because of Donald Trump's kind of weird obsession with putting in place tariffs based on a completely made up formula. Then on Wednesday, he abruptly pulled back on the most egregiously high tariffs on most countries for 90 days, but left a 10% tariff across the board on all of them. Then he jacked up tariffs on China to 145% before announcing an exemption for smartphones, flat screen TVs and semiconductors late Friday night. And then it continued to get more confusing because just this morning his Commerce Secretary said this quote, is not like a permanent sort of exemption, whatever that means. So there's a little bit of a pattern here. He's going too far and then he's caving and it's all a little uncertain and murky. But it's important to remember that even with all these walk backs, prices on everything from clothes to toys to appliances are still going to be much higher for everyone. And in less than 90 days, Trump could have a brand new chart with a brand new fake equation and we could be right back at square one. The point being that unfortunately we are not quite out of the woods yet with all the tariffs. One of the things that really stuck out to me this week was how Trump announced his reversal on tariffs, or his semi reversal, I should say. It all began Wednesday morning when he issued something of a stock tip from the White House in all caps. He said, quote, this is a great time to buy. Signing with his initials djt. You can see it on the screen right there. He posted that at 9:37 in the morning, just right after the market opened. Of course, not everyone has a pile of cash sitting around. Most people don't. But for those who did, we now know that, yeah, that was an awfully good time to put money in the market because less than four hours after that post, Trump backpedaled on many of the tariffs, causing the market to surge as he knew it would. So anyone who took Trump's advice that morning that he posted on Truth Social could have made a whole lot of money. I mean, it was a pretty timely heads up, and it also produced some very interesting television later that afternoon. Earlier this morning, before the pause, he.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

He put out a message saying, it's a great time to buy.

[Host]

And here we are. Here we are. Much higher. I'd always bet on Donald Trump. Every time. I'd always bet on. He also wrote djt, which is a ticker for, for his media company. No, no, no.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Every. Every text.

[Host]

That was just his.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Every text he sends to me.

[Co-Host]

That's his name.

[Host]

But that was a great time to buy the market, right? I mean, uncanny. CNBC's Melissa Lee, who you just saw there doing that interview, was kind of all of us on Wednesday. I mean, as it turns out, there were people who did make a ton of money on Wednesday. Well, certain people, at least. To be clear, Bloomberg actually crunched the numbers and found that the world's wealthiest people added $304 billion to their combined net worth on Wednesday. 304 billion do. They said it was the largest one day gain in the history of the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. And look, there are a lot of questions about the timeline of these announcements. And lawmakers are rightfully curious about who knew what and when and what they did with that information. A number of them have called for an investigation into possible insider trading to look into exactly that. But one thing we do know is that it was a good day for billionaires, a very good day. And I kid you not, you can't make it up sometimes because two of those billionaires just happened to be with Trump in the Oval Office on that very same day. And as you can see for yourself, Trump was downright giddy is the only way to describe it. But just how much money they made, all thanks to him. This is Charles Schwab.

[Co-Host]

It's not just a company, it's actually an individual.

[Host]

He made two and a half billion today, and he made 900 million. That who you saw in that video was Charles Schwab. That Charles Schwab and Roger Penske, as in the Penske trucks you see on the highway. Trump says they made a combined Total of more than $3 billion in a single day. So he bragged about enriching billionaires with them in the Oval Office. I'm sure you heard the chuckling in the background. And then a communications advisor on his staff. I really can't get over this piece. Thought it was a good idea to tweet that exchange out. So you can just imagine how pleased Trump is going to be if his tech CEO buddies cash in on Monday, which they probably will do because of those new exemptions on electronics, however temporary they may be. Point is, most Americans are nervously watching their 401s as Donald Trump toys with the US economy and some of the richest people in the country are cashing in. None of this should really be a surprise, though, because Donald Trump's priority has always been to reward people who are already wealthy. That's kind of been a theme. It's never been a big secret, but it does seem to be getting more blatant and more brazen. And then I want you to listen to something one Trump mega donor said this week. And when you listen to it, I just want you to keep in mind that this guy was saying this on a video in an effort to dunk on Democrats who did not give him the access he felt he deserved simply because he's rich.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

I was a mega donor to the Democrats, you know, like dinner with Obama level donor, okay? I couldn't get a phone call return.

[Co-Host]

From the White House to save my life. The Trump administration is totally different. There's not a single person there you can't get on the phone and talk to.

[Host]

There's not a single person there you can't get on the phone. Again, that's a Trump mega donor literally praising Donald Trump because he can buy access to his team in a way he never could under a Democratic administration. It's not really the sick burn that guy thinks it is, obviously. But look, while it's easier for billionaires like him to buy political favors, most people like you will have to pay more on almost everything you buy, because tariffs are a tax on the American people. When a tariff makes a product more expensive, basically all of the added costs get passed to you, the consumer. That's just a fact. But regardless of that, Trump still appears to be in some form of denial. Don't let them keep telling you that this is a tax on our people. I hate that. No matter how much he hates it, this still is a tax. And this isn't just some liberal talking point, by the way. Take a listen to some of the Staunchest conservative Republicans in Washington.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Tariffs are a tax on consumers. And I'm not a fan of jacking up taxes on American consumers. There's no question about it is a tax.

[Host]

Conservatives used to understand that tariffs are taxes on the American people. It's not even your average tax hike either. By the way, tariffs are effectively a regressive tax, meaning the less money you have, the harder you get hit. Even after Trump's reversal, the tariffs on countries including Brazil and Colombia remain unchanged. And what that basically means is that the two biggest producers of US coffee, Brazil and Colombia, your daily cup of daily or daily cups, if you're me, I should say, will most likely be getting more expensive because their tariffs on them remain in place. And the disruption could also make holiday shopping difficult. I know it's a while away, but here's where One toy company CEO told the Today show on Thursday.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

80% of the toys will be twice as expensive this Christmas as they were last Christmas. They're likely in particular with toys, be a shortage of toys this Christmas. I mean, even a short term disruption will upset the flow of goods.

[Host]

Merry Christmas, everyone. There are fewer toys and they are more expensive. Keep in mind all of this happened on the same week, during the same week when House Republicans passed a budget that could also include massive cuts to Medicaid. So they're making everything from health care to holiday toys more expensive for most Americans. And when Trump says, which he keeps saying, it's a quote, great time to buy, that was his tweet, you have to ask yourself, great time for who exactly? Not most people. Now, the only silver lining here, if you could call it that, is that this is all being done in the light of day. Billionaires yogging it up in the Oval Office about how much money Donald Trump made them. Billionaires bragging about buying access to the White House and the cost of living going up for everyone else, which people are living every day. Turns out people are taking notice. A lot of people. Of course they are. Millions have turned out of protests, shown up at town halls and big rallies to demonstrate again against what we've seen from this White House. And yesterday, Bernie Sanders and AOC held their latest fight oligarchy event, this one in Los angeles. They said 36,000 people turned out for this rally. They also said it's the biggest crowd either of them have ever spoken to. And yet Bernie's message has kind of never been more relevant than it is. Right.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

I invite the president to come to la. Tell the people here why you think it's a great idea to cut Medicaid and nutrition and health care so you can give tax breaks to billionaires.

[Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry]

The destruction of our rights and democracy is directly tied to the growing and extreme wealth inequality that has been building for years in America.

[Host]

Across the country, voters are saying they need leaders who stand up for them, not for the billionaires. And more and more, it seems like lots of leaders across the country are listening. One of those leaders, Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, joins us right here Next. In just 90 seconds.

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[Governor Andy Beshear]

Good to see you too.

[Host]

I want to start with tariffs because I think one of the things that's so important for people to understand is how this is impacting people every day. People in states like Kentucky, I just kind of talked through the uncertainty people may be feeling. The kind of back and forth we've seen from The Trump administration on this, people may think it's all behind them, but I want you to just explain to people watching what the uncertainty and what the tariffs still in place, what impact that is going to have, as you see it, on the people of Kentucky.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Well, tariffs are going to make life that much more difficult for so many people who are struggling to pay bills at the end of the month. This isn't just going to make it harder. It's going to blow a huge hole in their entire family budget. I think There was a recent report that suggested that President Trump's newest tariffs could cost the average American family $4,700 per year. Think about what $4,700 is. That is multiple months of groceries or rent. That's probably your entire deductible if you're on private insurance. It is really hard for a family to make up for that amount of money. And as Rand Paul said it, as you said it, as I say it, it is a tax on the American people. It is the Trump tax on the American people. The amount your groceries cost more because of these tariffs is the Trump tax. The amount a new home costs more because of these tariffs is the Trump tax. The amount that gasoline may go up or the amount that you pay extra in the upcoming holiday seasons? That is the Trump tax. How much harder it is to pay those bills at the end of the month is the Trump tax. And it's hitting everybody. It hits farmers, it hits factory workers. It hits everybody who's trying to go to work, work a hard day and support their family. It's bad policy. And again, you don't have to take my word for it in my state. Our two Republican senators, Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul and this Democratic governor, all agree that tariffs are a bad idea. Why? Because Trump's tariffs are a really bad idea.

[Host]

That's strange bedfellows in politics, as they call it. Governor, let me ask you about. Late Friday night, Trump signed an executive order exempting cell phones, computers, semiconductor chips and other electronics from these reciprocal tariffs. But then this morning, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said, this is not like a permanent sort of exemption. I'm not asking you to explain. I don't know what he means by that. But what do you make of people watching right now, people in your state? What should they make of these exemptions and where it sort of sits right now? Because that felt like a relief, but I'm not sure that it really is.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Well, the question is, are we dealing with incompetence or corruption? Because you look at the incompetence side. And they've changed their mind 10, 12, 13 times. And look at what the chaos is doing. It is tanking our economy. When the President came into office, our economy was experiencing growth, growth. And it hadn't caught up to people yet, but it was going to. Wages were going up, unemployment was low. And we're seeing all of that turn around as well as the stock market and people's 401ks taking a really rough hit. That's the incompetence side. These specific exemptions or exceptions which tend to favor the President's biggest donors, if those are put into place, then we're looking at something much closer to corruption. Either are bad. Neither should be happening. And the best move this administration could take is to scrap the whole plan.

[Host]

Let me ask you, I think that's an important thing to note. A lot of the people who are benefiting from these are CEOs of tech companies who have been huge donors and suddenly they're getting exempted. Go figure. Let me ask you about Medicaid. This is an issue I think we all have to be paying a lot of attention to. As I understand you correct me in the statistics, but as I understand from what I've read, about 28% of people in Kentucky rely on Medicaid or approximately that it's really important to your state. So many states in the Republican budget, in the House that they passed there could be massive cuts to Medicaid, even though they seem to be denying that. What are you preparing for? And if that is part of the, part of the package, what impact could that have on the people of your state?

[Governor Andy Beshear]

It'll be devastating. Medicaid covers the people we love the most, our parents and our kids. Half of Kentucky's kids are covered by Medicaid. 70% of our long term care costs are covered by Medicaid. All of our rural hospital systems exist because of Medicaid and expanded Medicaid. Without those dollars, with or with a massive cut, what we will see is rural health care shut down almost entirely. And then whether you're on Medicaid or private insurance, you're going to have to drive a couple of hours to a big city probably to see the same doctor who used to live in your community. And what it'll do to all those communities that the President says he's trying to bring jobs back to, that'll be devastating too because in most of these communities, the largest employer is the public school and the second largest is the hospital system. What this will do is make our people unhealthier. It will result in devastating jobs losses. The price of health care will go up. I mean, this is something that the American people will see, will feel and will respond to. And whether it's the tariffs that will make life more difficult or significant cuts to Medicaid, it's going to leave a lot of people who end up voting for President Trump feeling betrayed. Because I believe the last group of movable voters that made him president thought he was going to make life for them a little bit easier. And now his policies are making it a lot harder.

[Host]

You were a Democratic governor in a state that went overwhelmingly for Trump in the election. You talked to a lot of voters. Are you hearing buyers remorse from people out there?

[Governor Andy Beshear]

I'm hearing very significant concern on Medicaid cuts. People understand Medicaid much better today than they did several decades ago. I hear small businesses and farmers incredibly worried about the tariffs. I hear a lot of people talking about how meaning and cruel the federal jobs cuts are. They all know somebody that's been laid off who was doing their best in their job and then they were lied to. They were told it was their fault. And that hurts, not only that person, but their friends and family's react as well. It's not just that this administration is pursuing bad policies. It's that they're being mean and cruel about it. And I don't think Americans like that. I believe that most Americans live their life with empathy, with humanity. And the more that we see this meanness coming out of Washington, D.C. the more people over time are going to say, this is not what we signed up for.

[Host]

Governor Andy Beshear, I wanted to talk to you about your podcast, but I hope you'll come back and talk to me about that. You're not the only governor with a podcast, but it is an interesting thing to do. But I really appreciate you joining us. So many of the things happening here impacting people and in your state. And that's why I was so looking forward to talking to you today.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Happy to come back. And the Andy Beshear podcast is available on all major platforms.

[Host]

Promo always. Thank you, Governor. Still ahead, we've got new receipts about Elon Musk, cost cutting efforts and let's just say irony is still alive and well. Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry is the ranking member on the Doge subcommittee. Jen Palmieri is the former White House Communications director under President Obama. Both of them join me next.

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[Host]

Okay, remember when Elon Musk kicked off his big Doge adventure with some big promises about how much waste he was going to crack cut out? Well, first he claimed he was going to slash $2 trillion from the federal budget. That sounds like a lot. Then he quietly revised it down to 1 trillion, and now the projection is down to 150 billion. A number, by the way, that we should all view with a heavy dose of skepticism, since Doge's so called Wall of Receipts has already been riddled with a lot of errors. But for the people who still take Musk at his word, look at the results so far. According to new reporting from the Wall Street Journal, federal spending is actually up in 2025, despite all the budget cutting. Buster Trump has spent $154 billion more than President Biden had spent by this time last year. So what is the Republican plan moving forward? Well, this week House Republicans passed a new budget blueprint in which they will extend tax cuts to billionaires and corporations, which costs a lot of money, by the way, and cut 1.5 trillion from the budget. But so far they've offered no concrete plan to get there because they know it's not possible without gutting Medicaid. Unless they want to gut the Defense Department, of course, and they're trying very hard not to say that part out Loud. Instead, Speaker Johnson claims he can hit that number by rooting out billions in waste, fraud and abuse from Medicaid. And Elon Musk has already showed us how good they are at that, hasn't he? Not good at all. Now, the bottom line is even Senate Republicans know is that they are never going to hit the 1.5 trillion number without taking a substantial ax to Medicaid. And given he's leading the charge, here is some context about Mike Johnson. You should all know almost 40% of his district is on Medicaid. His congressional district, the people who elected him, that's nearly 290,000 people, according to data from KFF Health News. In fact, a major rural hospital in this district remains open thanks in large part to Medicaid. And when KFF Health News spoke with two dozen Medicaid enrollees in his district, most of them said they had no idea Speaker Johnson's budget could put that very coverage at risk. So here's a little idea for Democrats before your next town halls. Now is probably a very good time to educate your voters in your neighboring Republican districts about what those Medicaid cuts could mean because what's on the chopping block isn't waste or fraud. Obviously not. It's hospitals, it's nursing homes, and it's keeping people care within reach for so many people. Congressman Melanie Stansberry is the ranking member on the House Doge subcommittee and Jen Paul Mary is the former White House communications director under President Obama. And both of them join me now. Okay, Melanie, Congresswoman, I want to start with comments from Speaker Mike Johnson this morning on Medicaid cuts and get your thoughts because this is just the claims they're making are just they don't pass a smell test. But let's play this and then we'll talk about it.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

We have to root out fraud, waste and abuse. We have to eliminate people on, for example, on Medicaid who are not actually eligible to be there, able bodied workers.

[Host]

For example, young men who should never.

[Governor Andy Beshear]

Be on the program at all.

[Host]

Now, I just walked through some of my issues with Mike Johnson of all the people making that argument. But I think it's so important for people to understand what's actually going to happen here potentially to Medicaid. So what does that tell you about where Republicans are heading on this? What can you tell people watching?

[Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry]

Well, first of all, Mike Johnson is completely blowing smoke right now because the budget framework that they passed a couple of days ago is very clear. It will cut $880 billion from the committee of jurisdiction that oversees the health care of Americans. This is 880 billion dol in cuts to, you know, senior living facilities, to health care facilities. And whether you're on Medicaid or not, you should care about what's happening because hospitals, health care clinics. You know, I live in New Mexico. It's already difficult to get access to specialty health care here in New Mexico. A major cut to Medicaid will decimate our health care system for everybody because our hospitals and everyone depends on it. But here's the thing. They're just lying. And I think, you know, we've all become accustomed to Donald Trump and his modus apparatus of lying to the American people. And Mike Johnson is one of his closest allies. And this week, as the Republicans were melting down on the House floor, basically he and the leader of the Republicans in the Senate had to promise the fiscal conservatives in the House that they would cut Medicaid and cut spending by $1.5 trillion or else they wouldn't have voted for it. So it's very clear. It's in the framework. And by the way, Republicans actually le their own budget document that showed all of the Medicaid programs that they planned to cut. So it's a complete lie.

[Host]

The math just doesn't math sometimes with what Mike Johnson is saying, that's not a good messaging tactic. Okay, Jen Palmieri, you and I have probably done a combined one zillion campaigns. This is, the House is on recess this week. This is a time where people can go out to their districts or members who are not vulnerable, can go to other republic, can go to Republican districts. They can help people running. What should the message be in a clear and concise way on Medicaid cuts that you'd love to see Democrats doing this week?

[Jen Palmieri]

I think that the, the benefit the Democrats have now, even though it's been so damaging to the economy, is people's attention, right? Because of, because of tariffs, because of the stock market crashing, because people worry about the 401ks. I think that whereas when Democrats have expressed concern about threats to Medicaid or other or other programs before, it might not have seemed real. I think now people understand this is a very different kind of administration and different and Republicans, members of Congress are propping up this administration. So you could say I would, I would go back from the start, actually, Jen, I mean, as you did just now, to remind us about when Musk, what Musk actually promised with Doge and what's what and what's actually happening. Donald Trump said he was going to lower prices on day one. Okay. And look, and look at where we are now with the, with the economy. Look at your 401k. See how that is doing. People understand that there is no strategy with tariffs. And now they are coming for your Medicaid because all they want to do is deliver tax cuts for wealthy people. And you don't just make that about Trump. You make that about the Republican members of Congress that are, because, you know, like, let's do this in stages. They are the ones that are going to be on the ballot in less than two and listen to ears and to make them own it. And also, I think that there's a long way to go in the budget process from just passing the budget resolution to actually delivering on Medicaid cuts and actually passing these big tax cuts. And there is a very decent chance that Johnson will not be able to get the votes to do that and actually stop a bad thing from happening, not just campaign on it. So that should be the goal.

[Host]

That's a pretty good goal. I hope everybody's listening. Congresswoman, you are an incredibly effective messenger. You do social media. You're great on tv. I was so looking forward to having you on today. Probably why I called you, Melanie, not Congresswoman. At first I feel like I know you. But I wanted to ask you about another issue that you talked about too, which is Social Security, because there's also cause for concern around Social Security right now. And I know there's a plan for Democrats to go out and talk about this. Wired is reporting that the Social Security Administration plans to move all public communications to X, Twitter, whatever you want to call it. A platform. By the way, only 9% of seniors say they've ever used in their life, while also slashing regional office staff by 90%. How are you thinking about talking about the real world impact of that on American seniors?

[Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry]

Well, I'm going to come to that for in just a second, but I want to say first of all that the announcement that Musk is going to move communications to X should not only be raising alarms for our communities that they're not going to be able to access information, but it is quintessential grift. Why on earth does Elon Musk want to move eyeballs to his own social media platform? It's because he wants to make money off of it. And that's exactly what the Trump administration is all about. And that is part of why Elon Musk's receipts don't add up. Because this entire exercise has not been about Rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. It's been about privatizing the federal government, dismantling agencies they don't agree with, and then giving themselves private contracts and privatizing public services. So, you know, part of what Elon Musk is doing done inside the Social Security Administration is they've hacked your data. What are they doing with that data? They say they're using it to study the system. I don't think so. I think Elon Musk, who just signed a merger between his AI company and Twitter, is planning to use that data for his own financial purposes. Just like he is with treasury data and IRS data. He has helped to execute the firing of thousands of IRS employees. He's now talking about moving communications for Social Security to his platform. He's talking about closing offices across the country. You know, we have a Social Security office here in my district, and in fact, I'm planning to go down there tomorrow and meet with both the employees and the customers. And it's already difficult. You know, all of us have seniors and elders in our life. If you're spending hours and hours on the phone and you've already experienced, you know, your Social Security claim getting denied, that's literally the difference between somebody being on the streets and being able to eat or not. And so I think we really have to expose these guys for what they are, because this isn't just about giving billionaires more money. It's a cruel agenda to dismantle the fundamental framework that actually supports the people in our communities who need that help the most.

[Host]

Very well stated, Mary. We only have about a minute left, but you're a professional, so let me just ask you. I mean, Social Security has kind of been the third rail for so many years. Right. You know, but there's a lot. There's a lot the Congressman just referenced there. I mean, it's going after your private data. It's preventing seniors from having access. It's closing offices. What do you think? If you're going to fine tune and focus on the one or two things, what are they as it relates to Social Security?

[Jen Palmieri]

It's that you can't. You can't expect your check to show up on time. You can't expect your check to show up at all. You know, I saw something this morning that the wait times, call wait times right now, according to their own website, is physically 4 hours and 45 minutes. Right? So I think that that just in it. And you know, you're always looking for reinforcing messages, right, Jen? So it is, it's incompetence, Right? It is incompetence. It is callousness. It is. And it's an ideological agenda that overhangs all of this. Where people want to dismantle these, these programs.

[Host]

Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry and Jennifer Palmieri, thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.

[Congresswoman Melanie Stansberry]

Thank you.

[Host]

Coming up, the Trump administration is blowing off a judge after a ruling from the Supreme Court. And if you're wondering, no, that is not normal. I'll explain when we come back.

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[Host]

If the Supreme Court said bring somebody.

[Co-Host]

Back, I would do that.

[Commercial Voice]

I respect the Supreme Court and the lower court judge as well. He's been asking for.

[Host]

I'm not talking about the lower court. I have great respect for the Supreme Court. That was Donald Trump on Friday night being asked about the Supreme Court's Thursday night ruling in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He's the Maryland father who was deported without a hearing and sent to a notorious mega prison in El Salvador. Now, keep in mind, the Trump administration has even admitted that his deportation was a mistake. And then on Thursday evening, the Supreme Court issued a unanimous ruling in September instructing the government to facilitate Garcia's return home. The court also wrote that the government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken to bring him back. Well, the Trump administration has basically ignored all of that. On Friday, the government ignored not one, but two deadlines to give the federal judge overseeing the case any updates whatsoever. A lawyer for the Justice Department argued that it was too short a period of time to answer the judge's question about what steps they were taking to bring this man back. Really? And so the Judge ordered daily 5pm updates from the government and scheduled another hearing for Tuesday. That leads us to yesterday, just after the 5pm deadline, the government filed this three sentence update, writing, quote, it is my understanding, based on official reporting from our embassy in San Salvador, that Abrego Garcia is currently being held held in the terrorism Confinement center in El Salvador. He is alive and secure in that facility. He is detained pursuant to the sovereign domestic authority of El Salvador. So basically, according to unnamed embassy officials, Garcia is alive inside El Salvador's mega prison. But notice that the government didn't give an update at all on what steps, if any, the Trump administration was taking to get a man they wrongfully deported back home. But they did make the point that he is, quote, detained pursuant to the sovereign domestic authority of El Salvador. Now, that language certainly suggests that the government is trying to shrug off the Supreme Court's ruling by essentially saying, look, there's nothing we can do. Then last night, Donald Trump confirmed that nothing we can do is the official government position, it seems. I mean, Trump posted last night on social media that the men sent to the foreign prison were, quote, now in the sole custody of El Salvador, a proud and sovereign nation, and their future is up to the President Bukele and his government. Now, that obviously contradicts what he told reporters on Friday. Trump is saying that what happens to the men they deported, including Garcia, is up to El Salvador and not up to him. Which, by the way, is quite a departure from respecting the Supreme Court's ruling to facilitate Garcia's return home. Be serious. I mean, if Trump can get his Homeland Security secretary into the prison in El Salvador for a photo op, which you can see there, and he certainly did do that, you'd think he might be able to do something to facilitate Garcia's return, right? Especially since El Salvador's president will literally be at the White House tomorrow, I mean, take a second to think about what it means if Trump continues to ignore the ruling, though, without pushback. And what it tells us. It tells us the Trump administration can ship someone off to a foreign prison, admit in court that it was A mistake, have the Supreme Court then rule that they should fix their mistake and then feel like they can just shrug its shoulders and say, nothing we can do. Look, the Trump administration's immigration action should open up all of our eyes to just how far he might be willing to go. And the truly scary part is we don't know the answer to that yet, but we sure are getting some clues. Our friend Andrew Weissman is standing by, and he joins me next right now. Donald Trump is obviously testing the legal system in ways we have never seen from a president. It would seem like an ideal time, therefore, for the legal community in this country to have a. Unfortunately, that's not exactly what we are seeing across the board. This week, five more large firms caved to threats from the White House and reached deals to provide a combined total of more than half a billion dollars in free legal services to conservative causes supported by Trump. Now, in exchange for that capitulation, these firms hope to stave off executive orders that would make it more difficult to represent clients in federal courthouses and make them appear out of favor with the current administration. For some, but not everyone is caving to Trump. Sussman Godfrey was one of the law firms hit by an executive order this week. They're the firm that won a $787 million judgment for Dominion Voting Systems in their lawsuit against Fox News. And instead of giving in, they sued him. In their complaint, the firm wrote, quote, if President Trump's executive orders are allowed to stand, future presidents will face no constraint when they seek to retaliate against a different set of perceived foes. What for two centuries has been beyond the pale will become the new normal. Put simply, this could be any of us. Andrew Weissman is the former general counsel to the FBI and an MSNBC legal analyst, and he joins me now. Andrew, I have had so many questions as I've read all these stories, and you are, as always, the perfect person to talk to. I kind of skim the surface of the reason I reasons why a growing number of law firms are striking these deals. So let's just start there. I'm not asking you to justify it, just to help people understand it. It seems like they are trying to avoid these executive orders that would make it harder for them to enter federal buildings. There may be other reasons. Some of them have said they don't want to appear out of favor with the current White House. That's been in some of the communications to their staffs. What am I missing in terms of the calculations in these law firms?

[Co-Host]

I think you're missing the issue that they're. They have clients, they have large corporate clients. And I think the concern for these law firms is losing business is that though the clients are going to be concerned about, you know, if they can go to a law firm that's not out of favor, they may be treated better. And so they don't want to be using, you know, firm A, which is, you know, on an enemy's list, when they could be using firm B. And they could have the administration taking harsher actions with respect to their counsel if they choose A versus B. So, you know, it's worth remembering, although I don't in any way condone what the law firms are doing, but they are all victims. You know, they're. They're reacting to it differently, but they are, in fact, all being subjected to executive orders where every single executive order that's been challenged has been struck down. And I think my dog is agreeing with you. I know, I hear him in the background.

[Host]

He's like, very exercised about these law firms. I know him a little bit. To know that that's the big one. Right. That's why any of them would care about being perceived as being out of favor or not being able to get into federal courts. That's right. They need their business. They need their big corporate clients. The other piece that, you know, these numbers, it's like they don't mean a lot to people who haven't worked at law firms. There's an enormous number of hours, it's seems of that that they have all committed to doing pro bono. Every firm does pro bono work, but this seems like a lot for conservative causes. How are you reading what that might look like, what the parameters are for that, if we even know them?

[Co-Host]

Well, let's just step back for a moment. The administration is saying that it's doing this because these law firms are somehow being partisan. Well, you know what? This is Republican orthodoxy. It's none of their damn business. These are private companies. They can be as partisan as they want to be. The government has no business stepping in and saying, gee, you should have even handed pro bono work or paying work. They're private companies. I mean, it's so remarkable to see this coming from a Republican administration which normally says to the government, keep your hands off of this. But that is the argument that's being used and it's really worth not normalizing it, which is private companies are entitled to do work that is either, you know, pro abortion or anti abortion. They can choose what they want to do and the government should not be weighing in on that.

[Host]

Let me ask you about the other I mentioned. One of the firms are not the only one. There are a number of firms who are fighting this who are also being targeted, as you said. What do you think their calculation is? Because I assume they're at risk of losing big corporate clients, but they're making a calculation to fight it. So how are they thinking about it?

[Co-Host]

Well, it's worth remembering there's, there is on the other side, there are clients who actually will want to be going to these firms because they think what's happening is outrageous, that they don't look at the short term, they look at the long term. Remember the administration that's making these so called deals with the Paul Weiss's and these other firms. The administration is not actually agreeing to do anything. And, and they're not saying they're not going to continue to exert pressure. And when many people analogize this to the mob cases that I have brought, you know, when you start paying the mob extortion, they don't go away.

[Host]

Right. So they hold things over your head.

[Co-Host]

Exactly. So firms that are fighting it may be acting out of principle and also thinking about the long term gain the effect on clients who will want to support as well as also staff. And I teach at a law school, young lawyers who are going to be much more anxious to go to firms that believe in the First Amendment, believe in the profession of the law and are willing to stand up for what they believe in.

[Host]

Before I let you go, I could talk to you forever, as you know, but I wanted to ask you about the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who I was talking about before the break. What do you make? I talked a lot about the Trump administration's reaction to the Supreme Court's ruling or interpretation, whatever you want to call it. They're basically saying there's nothing they can do to bring him back. They're putting it back on the president of El Salvador. What do you make of that interpretation of the Supreme Court's ruling on this?

[Co-Host]

So I have two reactions, one as a lawyer and one as a human being.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

So as a human being, I would like people to step back and think about, I mean, Jen, you, you and I have both been in government. I'd like people to think about the reaction when you have decided you have wrongfully sent somebody overseas. They are wrongfully in a prison. The government concedes that. And the internal conversation is not how on God's green earth do we rectify this immediately. I can't imagine that conversation where someone thinks, no, no, no, how do we STONEWALL to keep Mr. Garcia still in prison? What I think needs to happen now is the judge needs to have a hearing and needs to basically say, you say you have no ability. You say you have no control over him. How do you explain, as you pointed out, Jen, Kristi Noem, how do you explain that you're still paying for people to be kept there? Let them prove that they have absolutely no ability to bring him back.

[Host]

Andrew Weisman, thank you so much. And hi, Ennis, thanks for joining us as well. We'll be right back. Okay. We are already working on a great show for tomorrow night. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries is going to join us. I'm really looking forward to that conversation. There's a lot to talk about. Houses on recess, lots they can talk about. And you can see it right here tomorrow night at 8pm Eastern. That's going to do it for me today.

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