MS NOW Exclusive | Hope Comes Home: Inside the Obama Presidential Center - Part 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: MS NOW Exclusive | Hope Comes Home: Inside the Obama Presidential Center - Part 1

Date: June 20, 2026
Host: Michele Norris (for this episode)
Notable Guests: Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Michael Smith (interior designer)

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Main Theme

This special episode offers an in-depth, behind-the-scenes look at the Obama Presidential Center just after its grand opening on Chicago’s South Side. Through voice tours, interviews with Barack and Michelle Obama, and narrative insights, listeners experience how this center was envisioned as a living, dynamic space—not just a monument to the past, but a resource, catalyst, and invitation for civic engagement, community connection, and the ongoing American journey toward inclusion and progress.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Vision: “A Place for the Future”

• Breaking Presidential Library Tradition

  • Unlike previous presidential libraries, the Center eschews the purely archival model (a “warehouse for papers”) in favor of being an incubator for leadership, a living museum, and a community hub ([03:02]).
  • Its mission is “not just to look back,” but to “take responsibility for what needs to happen next.”
  • Barack Obama: “We wanted this to be a vital, alive, dynamic place for the South Side of Chicago and the city of Chicago. For the kids in the neighborhood, that it was going to be used” ([19:18]).

• Intentional Location & Community Impact

  • Cited as the “epicenter” of the Obamas’ personal and professional lives, the location was chosen for its connection to their story and to serve a historically underinvested area ([19:18–23:24]).
  • Barack Obama: “Within a 4 or 5 mile radius of that site...I first came to Chicago. I got my first apartment there. I met my wife there...My children were born there...”
  • Equal emphasis on public amenities: basketball court, auditorium, recording studio, meeting spaces, teaching kitchen, fruit/vegetable garden, beehives, public library branch, playground ([05:17–07:36]).

• A Community-Focused Space

  • All major spaces are open to the public, many free of charge; designed to be “a magnet for people to meet and gather and organize” ([07:40]).

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The Center's Design & Experiential Features

• Architectural Symbolism

  • The main building is over 200 feet tall, handpicked granite.
  • Its design evokes “four hands joined, holding a lantern” — intended as a beacon of light and togetherness for the community ([03:02–04:31]).
  • The top bears the text of Obama’s historic Selma speech.

• Artifact Curation

  • Historical Context:

    • Rather than starting with Obama’s personal story, the museum opens by confronting America’s “founding contradictions”—highlighting the tension between the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and realities like slavery and exclusion ([08:36]).
    • Artifacts tracing the long fight for inclusive democracy: a ballot from 1876’s first Black Illinois General Assemblyman, Emancipation Proclamation draft, civil rights buttons, labor picket signs ([08:36–10:20]).
    • Michele Norris: “Progress for some alongside poverty for many.”

  • The Obama Years and Tangible Experiences:

    • Exhibits include Obama’s “good luck charms,” a binder of animals named after him, and notable objects like the White House science fair’s marshmallow air cannon ([12:16]).
    • Interactive tactile elements: clay imprint of young Obama’s hand, fabric samples from Michelle’s gowns, fur samples from family dogs, inviting sensory engagement ([12:57–13:00]).
    • Mimics the sensory experience of walking from the White House residence to the Oval Office, including ambient bird song ([13:00]).

  • Major Milestones and Unfinished Business:

    • Key moments: Affordable Care Act, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell repeal, Bin Laden raid, marriage equality ([14:28]).
    • Unfinished business is intentionally on display—a legal pad with Obama’s incomplete agenda: criminal justice reform, closing the gun show loophole, voting rights ([34:24–35:35]).
    • Michelle Obama: “For all the very real progress America’s made over the past seven years, we still have some unfinished business” ([35:35]).

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The Replica Oval Office

• A Faithful Space with Iconic Details

  • Meticulously recreated by interior designer Michael Smith and President Obama—down to the texture of the couches and the presence of apples on the desk ([26:20–28:04]).
  • Only real apples missing—originally chosen over flowers for being “no-nonsense, healthy, American” (Johnny Appleseed inspiration) ([32:20–33:27]).
  • Michael Smith: “Apples are America. They’re no nonsense…more in a sense, than flowers…” ([32:26]).
  • Even things like shoe polish stains on the sofas are authentic: a nod to the nervousness and awe the space inspires ([31:05–31:45]).
  • The space is meant to be inviting but purposeful—not too comfortable, meant for hard work ([30:34–31:05]).

• Symbolic Moments

  • The story behind the famous photo of young Jacob touching Obama’s hair in the Oval Office—a symbol of representation ([25:27–25:56]).
  • Barack Obama: “Here’s this five-year-old African American kid touching the head of the President…that looks like him” ([25:56]).

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Democracy, Contradictions, and the Work That Remains

• The American Project, Nonlinear Progress

  • The Obamas are clear-eyed: the center is both a celebration and a challenge. It documents progress and honestly recognizes setbacks, failures, and unfinished goals ([35:40]).
  • Barack Obama: “Displaying the list of priorities is a deliberate way of reminding Americans that governing is difficult… progress is now up to the American people” ([35:40]).
  • The Center welcomes complexity:
    • Not just about glorifying the presidency, but about democracy’s ongoing push and pull.
    • The two “stories” of America—one of equality and one of exclusion—are intertwined in American life ([36:56–40:38]).

• Quotes of Note

  • Michelle Obama:
    • “Maybe a way to think about the Presidential Center… some touchstones… Some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of. Oh yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We… could actually try to find common ground and work together to do some good.” ([02:24], reiterated at [40:41])
  • Barack Obama:
    • “The words that are wrapped around the top… may not be my very best speech, but it is most representative of what I believe. It captures my politics as well as anything.” ([36:56])
    • “When you understand the complexities of America and the contradictions of America, I don’t think it makes you love it less. I think it makes you love it more.” ([45:26])
  • Michele Norris:
    • “What will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors.”

• Encouraging Civic Duty

  • The “Sky Room” atop the Center is a space intended to prompt visitors to ask, "Now, what can I do?"—placing responsibility for democracy and progress into the hands of every guest ([end of main narrative, ~16:30]).

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Barack Obama:
  • “We wanted this… to be a vital, alive, dynamic place for the South Side of Chicago...” ([19:18])
  • “It’s about their place in this arc of American history and about how do we empower everybody else in our communities, in our world to continue that journey, to make the world a better place.” ([08:25–08:34])
  • “Here’s this five-year-old African American kid touching the head of the President…that looks like him.” ([25:56])
• Michelle Obama:
  • “Generosity towards each other. Everybody counts and everybody matters.” ([01:21])
  • “Maybe a way to think about the Presidential center and what at least we tried to create is, is some touchstones… some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of. Oh yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We don’t have to distrust each other. We don’t have to hate each other…” ([02:24], [40:41])
  • “For all the very real progress America’s made…we still have some unfinished business.” ([35:35])
• Michael Smith (designer):
  • “Apples are America. They’re no nonsense…more in a sense, than flowers…they had a life about it, a vitality…” ([32:26])
• Michele Norris:
  • “Presidential libraries are not usually associated with merriment, there are elements of joy throughout the Center… the exhibits feel like a pep talk from a more hopeful era.” ([10:20–10:57])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:03]–[02:24]: Opening with the Obamas’ vision for the Center
• [03:02]–[05:17]: Architectural choices and community-driven design
• [07:36]–[08:36]: Amenities, public accessibility, and mission statement
• [08:36]–[10:20]: Museum’s treatment of America’s contradictions and pre-Obama artifacts
• [12:16]–[13:00]: Interactive, tactile exhibits; Obama White House mementos
• [14:28]–[15:36]: Recounting the Bin Laden raid and presidential moments
• [19:18]–[23:24]: Obama reflects on site selection, neighborhood history, and vision
• [25:27]–[26:20]: The Jacob Philadelphia photo in the Oval Office
• [26:20]–[34:02]: Recreating the Oval Office, design choices, and Apple anecdote
• [34:24]–[35:35]: The “Unfinished Business” legal pad and its meaning
• [36:56]–[41:38]: Philosophical discussion on America’s dual stories, founding flaws, and progress
• [45:21]–[46:19]: Obama on patriotic critique, resilience, and loving America through complexity

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Memorable Moments

• The decision to open the Center on Juneteenth, highlighting its symbolic resonance for American freedom ([narrative]).
• The Sky Room—designed less for information than for inspiration, leaving visitors to contemplate their role in the nation’s continuing journey ([16:30]).
• The intertwining of personal and public—family stories, White House rituals, and the authentic re-creation of the Obamas’ private/personal spaces in the museum.
• The open, honest admission of what was left unfinished and the call for ordinary citizens to take up the work.

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is reflective, candid, and aspirational: blending the Obamas’ warmth, humor, and humility with an unvarnished discussion of America’s contradictions and struggles. The language remains accessible, personal, and—like the Center itself—reaches beyond the past to encourage a sense of responsibility, action, and hope.

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In Summary

This episode is both a tour and a meditation—on legacy, the meaning of community, and the work of democracy as an unfinished story. The Obama Presidential Center is designed neither as a shrine nor a static monument, but as an invitation: to listen, to question, to connect, to disagree, to learn, and, most importantly, to move the country forward together.

Transcript

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms, but progress isn't guaranteed. Today. Those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs, with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 511-511-Text MSNOW to 511-51-511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by opill, the first over the counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. opill is FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. Opill is available online and at most major retailers. Take control of your health and reproductive journey with opill Birth control in your control Use code birth control for 25% off your first month of [e-mail] hello Chicago.

[Barack Obama]

It's good to be home.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The President like no other is back where it all began. Opening a new chapter on the south side of Chicago. His legacy and his dream on display.

[Michelle Obama]

Generosity towards each other. Everybody counts and everybody matters.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Her legacy and dream as well. It was important for me that kids like me could be right in their neighborhood and see world class art. Tonight we hear from the former President and First lady and give you a tour of the museum and the sparkling new campus. Welcome to Hope Comes Home Inside the Obama Presidential Center. Good evening. I'm Michele Norris. Welcome to Hope Comes Home Inside the Obama Presidential Center. The campus is now open to the public. It opened on Juneteenth and almost everything about this center is meant to be different from any other presidential library or monument that's come before it. The Obamas wanted this place to be an inspiration, a resource, an incubator for leadership. They don't just want you to look back at what he did during his eight years in office. They want you to feel some sense of responsibility for what needs to happen next.

[Michelle Obama]

Maybe a way to think about the Presidential center and what at least we tried to create is, is some touchstones, Some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of. Oh yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We don't have to distrust each other. We don't have to hate each other. We don't have to scapegoat each other. We could actually try to find common ground and work together to do some good.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

We are going to hear so much more from President Obama tonight, as well as former first lady Michelle Obama. We had a chance to have a good long chat with both of them and they talked about their vision for this place and much more. And if you're not here in Chicago, well, you might as well be because we have gotten an early look inside this sprawling center. And tonight we're going to give you an inside look at the building, the campus, and the story Barack and Michelle Obama want to tell the nation and the world. If you had asked the young Barack Obama what he wanted to be when he grew up, he might have told you that his dream was to be an architect. That boyhood ambition of his helps to explain why the story of the Obama Presidential center starts not with a traditional library or a monument or even a dusty box of papers from the archives, but but with the walls themselves. What you see here is the main building at the Obama Presidential center, more than 200ft tall, built from granite. The president hand picked himself. The architects based their design of the building on the image of four hands joined together. They wanted the building to look as if these hands are holding a lantern or a light of some kind, like a giant beacon here on Chicago's south side. And there, as you can see in the top corner, curving around the edge of the building, is the text of the speech President Obama delivered on the 50th anniversary of the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma.

[Michelle Obama]

You are America, unconstrained by habit and convention, unencumbered by what is, because you're ready to seize what ought to be.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

For modern day presidents, building a library is yet another civic duty. Once they leave office. Every president since her Herbert Hoover has built a presidential library. There are monuments to the men who serve their country and a kind of glorified warehouse to store all the papers and documents from their time in office. As Obama advisor Marty Nesbitt discovered, they can end up being rather lonely places. Every presidential center I went to, the archives were empty. There was nobody there. It was idle space.

[Barack Obama]

When we looked at the history of

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

presidential libraries, we found that sort of they open with a lot of fanfare and interest. And then over time, as sort of history progresses, time progresses, they become less and less relevant. President Obama decided to break with tradition to preserve his papers inside a fully digital library in lieu of keeping all those files inside a physical building. Instead, he tried to create a place where people, everyday people, not just scholars, would gladly visit over generations. That was the driving mission and the catalyzing challenge for what ultimately became not the Obama Presidential Library. But the Obama Presidential Center. That distinction is important. The Obama Presidential center is so much more than just a library, I think, because they chose Chicago, the south side of Chicago, where it's really home for them. They wanted it to be a gift. And if it had just been a museum, it wouldn't be the gift that it is today. The goal was to create a campus that would remain relevant over decades to make this place feel alive. I've had a chance to watch the project evolve over 10 years from dream to reality. The Obama foundation assembled a storytelling committee of historians, scholars and storytellers to serve as a resource. I was on that committee and got a firsthand look at the thinking behind the exhibits, the architecture, and the commitment to create a campus that served the surrounding community. Today, the Obama Presidential center is more than a museum or a space for archival study. The $850 million campus has a regulation sized basketball court, an auditorium and performance space, a recording studio for creators. And since Barack Obama worked as a community organizer in this same neighborhood, it's not surprising to see that the center also has classrooms and meeting spaces for workshops and organizing. There's a teaching kitchen and a fruit and vegetable garden, a flourishing beehive that's part of a sustainable ecosystem. Barbecue grills dot the walking paths. There's also a brand new branch of the Chicago Public Library and a children's playground.

[Barack Obama]

Hey,

[Michelle Obama]

that was fantastic.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

That equipment has been stress tested by the president himself. The Obamas want this place to be a community hub, a place for kids to frolic in a fountain when it's hot. The water terrace is named for his mom, Stanley Ann Dunham, or come in from the Chicago cold to check out a book or just hang out in a comfortable chair under the artwork in the lobby. A place where families could picnic or where tourists might enjoy a meal in the restaurant. Almost every space on this campus is open to the public, much of it free of charge. It is designed to be a magnet for people to meet and gather and organize. This is the humility of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's not about them.

[Barack Obama]

It's about their place in this arc

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

of American history and about how do

[Barack Obama]

we empower everybody else in our communities,

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

in our world to continue that journey,

[Barack Obama]

to make the world a better place.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The permanent exhibit in the museum could have opened with memorabilia from Barack Obama's childhood or his early life in politics, or a list of his accomplishments in office. Instead, it begins with our nation's founding contradictions. The Declaration of Independence spoke of universal equality in A country that also institutionalized slavery. Our nation was rooted in the right to vote, but not for all unalienable rights, but not for all. Progress for some alongside poverty for many. So instead of launching immediately into the timeline of Barack Obama's life, you see the historic preamble to his story. Behind glass is a ballot from 1876, when the first black man was elected to the Illinois General Assembly. An early draft of the Emancipation Proclamation. Buttons from the civil rights movement, picket signs from labor strikes, the presidential pen used to sign the Voting Rights Act. Artifacts belonging to the people who fought these fights before Barack Obama ever entered politics. The suffragists and the civil rights workers and the labor organizers who put everything on the line to shove our country forward and create the possibility for a black man to be elected President of the United States. The first words you see on the way into the exhibit space remind visitors that America has always been a work in progress. This museum surrounds visitors with that idea, the push and pull of progress, and the evidence that America has always been arguing with itself about who belongs and who gets to decide who counts and who is forced to the margins.

[Michelle Obama]

Today, I say to you that the challenges we face are real, they are serious, and they are many.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The very existence of this center celebrating America's first black president becomes part of that argument, an assertion that leadership rooted in hope and pluralism can exist in America. Are you fired up? The center opens its doors at a time of deep anxiety and division, a moment when Americans are worried about the values they hold dear and the health of American democracy. We worried for good reason. This place is designed to be a reminder from the moment you step in the door that an imperfect, contradictory, and sometimes confounding system can birth a multiracial democracy and make it stronger over time. What will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors. America will see itself coming into the space can be heavy. It's powerful, but many of the visitors have told us that it also feels like an oasis. One magazine writer said the exhibits feel like a pep talk from a more hopeful era. And while presidential libraries are not usually associated with merriment, there are elements of joy throughout the center. You will hear the music of the Obama era at the White House. Aretha and Prince and Bruce Springsteen and Stevie Wonder. You'll see art everywhere. Stained glass and sculpture and floor to ceiling installations. The President and Mrs. Obama commissioned 28 different pieces of original art placed all around the campus. And then, of course, you can take a trip down memory lane. Through two presidential terms. Copies of big speeches the President marked up by hand. A binder full of bugs and critters named after Barack Obama. The marshmallow air cannon from the White House science fair.

[Barack Obama]

Oh. Oh.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Good luck charms the President carried around in his pocket. The momentous day in June of 2015 when the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. And then later that same day, the President sang Amazing Grace at a funeral for a victim of the Charleston church shooting.

[Michelle Obama]

Amazing

[Barack Obama]

Grace.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The details, big and small, of the Obama White House and the Obama story.

[Michelle Obama]

By the way, my suitcases were not

[Barack Obama]

on top of the car.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

And not everything here is behind glass.

[Michelle Obama]

I like this. It's tactile.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Here you can lay your own palm on top of a clay imprint of the President's hand when he was just a young boy. Or touch samples of the fabric of Mrs. Obama's dresses and gowns. Or feel the difference in sonny and Beau's black white fur as you rub your hand across a display panel that describes their life in the White House. The museum tries to meet you where you are and then draw you in. We wanted to mimic the walk that the President took each day that he was in residence. From the residence to the Oval Office. And so he had walked past the Rose Garden along the colonnade. We hear the bird song, the rustling of leaves, the sounds of people going about their work to maintain this beautiful space. Someone actually recorded that in that space? We did, yes. We're hearing sound captured from the White House. The official text does not say anything about this, but visitors clearly understand that a walk through the Rose Garden from the Obama years is a stark contrast to that same space today, honoring a paradise that has since been been paved. Beyond the trinkets and birdsong, you'll also find artifacts from the big moments, too. The major inflection points of President Obama's eight years in office. The passing of the Affordable Care Act. The repeal of don't ask, don't tell. The financial crisis. The raid that captured Osama bin Laden.

[Michelle Obama]

Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

A memory shared by White House photographer Pete Souza and longtime advisor Valerie Jarrett. Shared, but from very different vantage points.

[Barack Obama]

I was, like, jammed in this corner. This is Brigadier General Brad Webb. He was at the head of the table. And when President Obama walked in, General, he stood up to give up the chair, and President Obama said, no, you stay right where you are. You're doing something I'm just gonna pull up a chair next to you, which is why he's sitting where he is. My butt was literally against a laser printer. So you can imagine the anxiety that they must have been feeling that I felt because of watching their faces. I felt that anxiety. And you talk to any of the men and women that were in that room, when they've done interviews, they use the word anxiety. They all use it.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

It was palpable. But if it had gone wrong, it could have been devastating for the president's political career. From the time he took office, he said to President Bush, I will not stop until I find him. And in fact, story I've not told before. That afternoon, his chief of staff called me and he said, I need to get a hold of President Bush. Can you get a hold of him? I said, sure. So I called President Bush's chief of staff and I said, president Obama would like to talk to President Bush. And the chief of staff said, why? I said, I can't tell you, but I promise you he'll want to take this phone call. He wanted to tell President Bush first. This place is filled with discoveries like that, with history that surprises you or calls you to action yourself. Alongside the successes of the Obama presidency, you will also see the moments where it fell short. The designers of the museum want you to see the unfinished business, as the president calls it, the work that remains. And so it is perhaps fitting that the end of the museum experience is up here in the clouds. The sky Room. No more exhibits and artifacts. No buzzy videos to watch or posters to read. Up here, it's just you and your ideas as you look out through President Obama's own words from Selma. With an expansive view of the south side, it's a place designed for people to ask themselves, now, what can I do? Tonight, we will roam around the museum and the grounds with the people who built it. And we will hear directly from the former President and Mrs. Obama now that their center, more than a decade in the making, is open to the world. We have so much more to get to tonight, and we're so glad to have you with us for this special event. Hope comes home inside the Obama Presidential Center. We'll be right back.

[Michelle Obama]

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[Barack Obama]

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[Michelle Obama]

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[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

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[Barack Obama]

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[Michelle Obama]

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[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms, but progress isn't guaranteed. Today, those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text Ms. Now to 511-511-Text Ms. Now to 511-51-511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by Opel, the first over the counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. opill is FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. Opill is available online and at most major retailers. Take control of your health and reproductive journey with opill Birth control in your control. Use code birth control for 25% off your first month of [e-mail] I am so glad that we have a chance to talk to you about this. 10 years in the making.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Really almost 12 now, right?

[Michelle Obama]

You start thinking about this in your last year in office. So that would be 2016. So that was 10 years ago when you're starting to conceive of it. And that's when you start thinking about selecting the site and how exciting the architects and so forth.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

When you started to think about it, was it. Some people have said it's almost. Oh, and now I've got to do this. It's almost like a burden. Did it feel like.

[Michelle Obama]

It didn't feel like a burden, but it felt like a distraction because at the time you're still working on presidential stuff. So you delegate a bunch of decisions and say, I'll worry about that later. But look, it's been a long journey. You had Covid in between, which obviously threw off schedules and budgets in all kinds of ways. We literally started construction and then suddenly Covid hits. That changed things a lot. We're not alone in that. And the great thing about it, though was I think there was a consistency of vision on what we were trying to accomplish with the center that didn't vary much. Michelle and I had a very clear sense that we wanted this to be a place that would attract visitors from around the world, that would record what happened during my presidency, but that more than anything was a vital, alive, dynamic place for the south side of Chicago and the city of Chicago for kids in the neighborhood, that it was going to be used. And that, I think, more than anything, shaped how we thought about what this thing would end up being. The location, in part, was determined by the fact that this is the epicenter of my life in Chicago, right within a 4 or 5 mile radius of that site. I first came to Chicago. I got my first apartment there. I met my wife there, My children were born there, my wife grew up there. We were, our wedding reception was there. I made my announcement for my first presidential or for my first political campaign there. I taught law school there. So that was part of what made that site so attractive to us. But as you say, one of the things that I learned when I moved to Chicago and one of the things that Michelle had firsthand experience with growing up in Chicago was even though the south side of Chicago runs on the lakefront just like the north side of Chicago does, for a whole bunch of historical reasons, the parks, the open spaces, the public facilities in those communities were underinvested in relative to other neighborhoods in Chicago. And so for a long time, I would drive through Lincoln park in the north side of Chicago and you'd look around and there are people playing volleyball, there are tennis courts and their kiosks, and there's programming and museums. And then Jackson park, which was just as beautiful, was empty. And that sent a message. And when I was organizing and when I was serving as a state legislator, I was always shocked when you'd hear stories from kids who would say, well, I've actually never gone to the lakefront.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Even though they lived on the south side. It was right there.

[Michelle Obama]

They lived in Englewood, but it's just. It felt foreign to them.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

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[Barack Obama]

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[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

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[Michelle Obama]

Welcome his Majesty King Abdullah to the White House. I think what she said was good.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

So this is early. This is May 8, 2009. The President had only been there, had only been in office a few months.

[Barack Obama]

A few months. And this little kid comes in with his dad and says, my friends tell me my haircut is just like yours.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Oh, my goodness. He's five years old.

[Barack Obama]

And with that, Barack Obama bends over and says, go ahead and touch it. There's the exact moment that Jacob's touching his head.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

This picture says so much. This is America's first black president. Little black boy. African American boy. This is in the Oval Office.

[Barack Obama]

Yes, this is in the Oval Office. And I think it really resonated with young kids of color. Here's this five year old African American kid touching the head of the President of the United States. That looks like him.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The Oval Office is almost synonymous with the American presidency. So in keeping with tradition, the Obama Presidential center has an exact replica of the Oval Office, just as it was during President Obama's time in the White House. It's already one of the most popular exhibits in the museum. Visitors curl in long lines around the outside wall for their chance to sit behind the Resolute desk. Their chance to peek at the remarkable treasures in this space. The lamps, the curtains, the wallpaper, the trinkets on the shelves. Every detail painstakingly recreated to look just like the original. Every detail except one. A detail. Everyone who's ever spent time in the real Oval Office will make sure. You know, do we think these are real apples?

[Barack Obama]

I do not.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

He actually ate the apples also.

[Barack Obama]

Yes, we all did.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Everybody came in and took apples, particularly kids. Don't try to eat those. No, I feel like those are replicable apples. What do you want people to take from this space? Is there some small.

[Barack Obama]

Not an apple, because they're not real anymore.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

That was Michael Smith. He's the interior designer who was chosen by President Obama in 2009 for the makeover of the real Oval Office. It was a case where Mr. Smith goes to Washington and then to Chicago to make sure the replica here is just right. Michael Smith is a close personal friend of the former president. Smith understands how the president thinks and how he works. And on our personal tour, he explained how they work together on every detail inside this room, including the apples. Well, here we are.

[Barack Obama]

Yes.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

In the Oval Office almost exactly as it was during those eight years.

[Barack Obama]

I mean, except for the view. It's pretty. Pretty accurate. I always have. I have to tell you, I always start to tear a little bit when you walk in.

[Michelle Obama]

You still do.

[Barack Obama]

Still, because it's so representational. You know, it reminds of eight years.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

And you were integral in creating this room. Now it's interesting, though, you didn't change the Oval Office right away because if we, you know, let's go back in the Wayback Machine. We remember that President Obama inherited a financial crisis.

[Barack Obama]

Relatively intense financial crisis. Yes.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

And so a decision was made.

[Barack Obama]

Yes.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

That you were going to leave the Oval. As it was.

[Barack Obama]

Yes.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

As he inherited it.

[Barack Obama]

Because. Well, it was. It was just. People were suffering. There was too much instability. And, you know, he being very moral and concerned, would never, you know, was. It just wasn't the right time. It wasn't the right time. So I think, you know, it took. It took. It took a long time. It gave me a chance to plan. And I think things like this carpet we're standing on, you know, is text. Right. My thing was text. This is a president who loves text. I think text is so important to him. So to give him quotes that meant something to him, which is the basis of his carpet, was something much more interesting than a vase of flowers or cherubs or, you know, this is. This is where it fitted to him. The shelves are crazy with the detail. So one thing that's really interesting is this obsession with trying to find the detail, the thing that had meaning. When he called me, there were plates, Chinese, these bookcases for Reagan. Bush had held a series of Chinese exports plates that had the presidential seal on them. It was just not his thing. So he called me, he said, I really don't like plates. I Don't want plates. What can we have? I don't want dishes, I think is what he said. So I called the Smithsonian and I said, what do you have in the way of workable models of patents? And they had like incredible, the cotton gin. This is a telegraph. So that's what, this is, a model. It's a working model. I mean, this is a recreation of that working model.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

But Samuel L.B. morse.

[Barack Obama]

Working Telegraph.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Samuel Morse, right.

[Barack Obama]

And my whole thing with these was like, look, these, these are pieces of American ingenuity, American exceptionalism. They were beautiful, sculptural, and they were so Barack Obama, right. So he would be curious and he loved it. So the Smithsonian, words, words and an idea and a crystallization, a three dimensional model of an. Of American exceptionalism and invention, Literally invention.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

When you were creating it for the first time. How do you create a room that is warm and inviting, but also has a sense of let's get down to work.

[Barack Obama]

My agenda was not to make it more propagandistic. I felt like you walk in, the room already has you, you know, you can't, you can't feel like it's not an impressive and sort of dramatic space because of the volume, because of the light, because of all that. So I really wanted people to be

[Michelle Obama]

comfortable, got some stuff to do.

[Barack Obama]

That was what I called and kind of got from, from, from, from President Obama was he just wanted people, he just wanted to get down to it, but he wanted people to, you know, come at their, at their best and come and be disarmed in a way by him.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Could you make the sofas too comfortable?

[Barack Obama]

You could have, and I didn't because

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

the idea is that you don't spend a lot of time.

[Barack Obama]

Correct.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

It's a very special thing to be invited into the space.

[Barack Obama]

But let me tell you something really interesting about this one. There are three sofas in the White House the same because they're constantly being touched up because people a wipe sweat because they're nervous, their palms so they touch the sofa. So sometimes it has to be touched up.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

So there's always one that is rotated out for cleaning.

[Barack Obama]

But that's not the thing that really is the most important. The most important thing is that men who come, women probably too, but definitely men polish their shoes so their shoes are newly polished and they're in their, in their sort of anxiety. They pull their feet up and rub the shoe polish on the back of the sofas. So the sofas have to leave all the time to take black shoe polish or brown shoe polish. Out. But think about it. No matter who you are, no matter who. Where you come from, to walk into this room, it's that feeling, that. That sort of sense of awe about being in this room.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Many other presidents have flowers or artifacts on their desk. You chose apples. You had something to do with that.

[Barack Obama]

I had something to do with it. The florist of the White House called me, and they said, what kind of flowers does President Obama want on his desk? Very simple, but somewhat impactful question. So I said, I'm gonna have to call you back. And I thought about it, and I thought about it, and I thought about Johnny Appleseed America, all these things, and I said, listen, I called him. I said, he's not such a flower guy, but I said, I have a shaker bowl. I'm sending it to you, and what I want you to do is fill it with apples every day. Because apples are America. They're no nonsense. They're healthy there. You know, it's just. It's such an American idea, more in a sense, than the formality and lack of hospitality in a way of flowers. So what happened, which I had no idea, is they would lose 20, 30 apples a day. Someone would take them as a keepsake. He would start to eat them. He still eats a couple of apples a day, which started as a result of that. Staff members would come in and eat them. Children would take them and eat them. So it had a life about it, a vitality about it, which was kind of amazing.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Unlike the actual Oval Office.

[Barack Obama]

Yes.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Thousands of people will come through this space. Little kids can come.

[Barack Obama]

Little kids can sit on the desk. I think. I hope they don't try to, like Caroline Kennedy, go through, you know, underneath the desk, where, John, have you ever said, you know, I never have. I never have.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

This is your chance.

[Barack Obama]

Yeah, I'm good.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Okay. You don't want to sit?

[Barack Obama]

No, it's his. I mean, it's. It's Barack Obama's. It's President Obama's desk. I don't want to know.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

He's sharing it with the public. That's. People will have a chance to sit,

[Barack Obama]

but I think they still know it's President Obama's desk. And that's the thing I want them to take from it.

[Michelle Obama]

Got all the. The patents that we had in there. And I know the couches are the same because Michael Smith knew where to get the fabric. Yeah, they did a good job. Looks. Looks like it's supposed.

[Barack Obama]

To.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The first thing you may notice about this piece of paper is how tidy and Neat. The handwriting is. Around 2015, President Obama reached for his yellow legal pad to sketch out his to do list, his policy roadmap for the remaining two years of his presidency. The header up top, underlined in ink, says domestic agenda. He ticks through the obvious stuff. Negotiate the budget. Take care of open enrollment for the Affordable Care act, known as the aca. Finish implementing the Dodd Frank act, the landmark Wall street reform bill. And then there are the more ambitious criminal justice reform. Close the gun show loophole, voting rights legislation. Looking back at it now, that list is stunning in its ambition. For all he got done over eight years in office, President Obama did not get as far as he wanted on criminal justice reform or gun safety. He did not get to sign new voting rights legislation. His list, on its face, might seem like a counterintuitive choice to be displayed in a presidential museum. A big, yellow, neatly scrawled reminder to the country of all the ways his administration came up short.

[Michelle Obama]

For all the very real progress America's made over the past seven years, we still have some unfinished business.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

But for President Obama, that reminder is intentional. The unfinished business of his administration is part of the story that he wanted to tell. Displaying the list of priorities is a deliberate way of reminding Americans that governing is difficult, that friction is the price we pay for pushing toward change, and that progress is now up to the American people. They have inherited the. What President Obama likes to call the work that remains at a time when this country is wrestling with deep questions about citizenship, democracy, and America's place in the world. When you and the first lady started thinking about this, you had no idea, you know, what would be going on in America? You have to do a little bit of sort of crystal ball thinking as you're putting this together. How did you make sure that as you were thinking about the design and the exhibits and the message that you were able to meet the moment, you

[Michelle Obama]

know, I don't know that we were trying to prognosticate and say, all right, well, here's where things are going to be. And so we want to make sure we do this or that. The words that are wrapped around the top of the.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The speech from Selma.

[Michelle Obama]

The anniversary is the anniversary of the Selma speech. I've often said that may not be my very best speech, but it is most representative of what I believe. It captures my politics as well as anything. It's been pretty consistent, this belief in an American story that. That begins with these amazing words, this declaration that we are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights. But it was imperfect. And then we struggle to make that ideal real. And that has always stood in opposition with a different idea of America that is based on caste and privilege and excluding people and dominating people. And those two contrasting stories about America. A lot of my speeches, a lot of my politics has been arguing this is the better story. And so I think it may seem as if right now the story told at the Presidential center is a response to this particular moment. But actually, I think it's a response to what has always been there in America. It's that part of America that says black people don't belong or that says that women need to be in their place and gay folks need to be in the closet and poor people need to stop complaining because a handful of people are the ones who are creating the wealth and they deserve to keep it. And we don't need to take care of the vulnerable, and we don't need to make public investments in our. That story's always been there. And I think sometimes we get confused in thinking that these two stories are. Completely separate. They're intertwined. Right. Which is why it's possible for me to be a great admirer of George Washington and also acknowledge he was a slaveholder. And that does not negate his greatness. It simply acknowledges that there is a profound, deep flaw in these Founding Fathers who were also geniuses and gave us these tools, which is true of all of us. Right. It's true of every president. It's true that we're this mixed bag. We got contradictions and embody the country's contradictions. And so I do think that what's striking is right now we've got a president in the White House who seems to have embraced and embodied in a way we haven't seen in a very long time, this other story. And maybe that's.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

Does that make your story more important?

[Michelle Obama]

I don't know if it makes it more important, but I am glad that we are planting a flag that we are hopefully creating a repository, a vessel through which people can be reminded of this better story. Maybe a way to think about the Presidential center and what at least we tried to create is some touchstones, Some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of. Oh, yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We don't have to distrust each other. We don't have to hate each other. We don't have to scapegoat each other. We could actually try to find common ground and work together to do some good.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

The idea of these two Stories is interesting because America has been having an argument with itself. We say one thing in our founding documents. We do something quite different in the way that we construct society. And the argument that you're talking about and the stories that you're talking about, you know, the exclusion of people of color, the exclusion of black people, the exclusion of women, the exclusion. The Chinese Exclusion act, you know, these are things that we know are true to the American story, but they don't always appear in presidential libraries.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

You decided to travel a different path. You decided to tell a different story in a different way so that you lean into that sort of thorny terrain around the founding contradictions. What was the thought process that led you there? Because that is unusual.

[Barack Obama]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

For folks who come to visit, the first thing they'll actually see is, in the museum is a copy of the Declaration of Independence and a pretty long description and displays of the struggle to realize that ideal that's embodied in the Declaration. But hopefully, what they'll also see, even when the exhibits are about my presidency, that there were people who disagreed with what I did, that there was a lot of unfinished business in my presidency.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

And you talk about that.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And that. And that there was something like the Tea Party that emerges during my presidency. And it's useful for people to understand where does that come from. But I do think it's important to ground what happened during my presidency in this broader sweep of American history. And as I said before, This idea that. On the right, and you see this in the Trump administration, this idea that any suggestion or criticism that America was anything other than perfect is unpatriotic, is

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

a suggestion that you hate your country.

[Michelle Obama]

Is a suggestion that you hate your country. Now, the flip side is, among progressives, sometimes there is this sense of. Well, the only true narrative of America is this one of oppression and exclusion. And I reject both those views. I think it's complicated. As I said, I think it's possible to celebrate the founders and appreciate what they did, as well as look objectively and critically at how their values strayed very far from what they professed. I think it's impossible to say that there were populists in rural America and the south and white America that really did believe in equality and justice

[Barack Obama]

for

[Michelle Obama]

white folks and help to make progress in giving more people opportunity and not ignore the fact that that was to the exclusion of others. And that's the kind of complexity that I hope people get a little bit of a sense of.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

You want people to actually marinate in that when they visit your center.

[Michelle Obama]

And the reason is this, because I think when you understand the complexities of America and the contradictions of America, I don't think it makes you love it less. I think it makes you love it more. And I think it also makes you more resilient. Because then during periods like we're in right now, where for a lot of folks it's crazy and you feel despair and anger, that perspective allows you to then say, okay, we've gone through crazy periods like this before. We've gone through mean periods before. It fortifies you to say that, yes, this has been part of the journey that we're on.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

We've been here before, we can do it again.

[Michelle Obama]

There's no reason to suggest that we can't get through this one either.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Michele Norris)]

We have another hour of hope comes home inside the Obama Presidential Center. Stay with us. Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.

[Michelle Obama]

We only met a month ago. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].