Democratic governors confer as Trump looks to spread militarized deportation frenzy

Summary

Summary of "Democratic Governors Confer as Trump Looks to Spread Militarized Deportation Frenzy"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Briefing with Jen Psaki
• Host/Author: MSNBC
• Description: Jen Psaki tackles the biggest issues of the week and features one-on-one interviews with newsmakers.
• Episode: Democratic governors confer as Trump looks to spread militarized deportation frenzy
• Release Date: June 12, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki," host Jen Psaki explores the escalating tensions surrounding President Donald Trump's efforts to militarize immigration enforcement in Los Angeles. The discussion encompasses the deployment of federal troops, reactions from Democratic governors, impacts on local communities, and the broader national implications of these actions.

Militarization of Immigration Enforcement in Los Angeles

At [01:00], the host highlights the unprecedented military presence in Los Angeles:

"There are more troops deployed to Los Angeles than there are deployed in Syria and Iraq combined."

Trump has deployed 4,700 federalized National Guard troops and 700 active duty Marines to Los Angeles, aiming to manage protests that have remained largely peaceful and confined to a small area. This militarization includes 12 Black Hawk helicopters and Predator drones surveilling protests, intensifying fears of an overreach in federal immigration enforcement.

Impact on Local Communities and Protests

The heavy military presence has sparked widespread concern among local authorities and communities. Governor Gavin Newsom of California warned that this is only the beginning, with the potential for similar deployments in other states. Major cities like Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, D.C., and New York City are on high alert, anticipating similar federal actions.

Key Incidents:

• Boise Heights, LA: Federal agents forcibly detained an American citizen with two infants in a car.
• Downey Churches: ICE agents targeted churches, detaining an elderly man while he was taking his granddaughter to school.
• Culver City Car Wash: A seven-year-old child was traumatized during an ICE raid.

Interview with Congressman Jimmy Gomez

[10:32]

Congressman Jimmy Gomez, representing downtown Los Angeles, discusses the severe impact of Trump's policies on his constituents:

"34% of the people in LA county are foreign born. Then you add in the people, their kids, it's even greater."

Gomez emphasizes the illegitimacy and detrimental effects of deploying military forces to assist ICE:

"They're there to facilitate what the federal agencies are doing on the immigration front."

He also shares personal anecdotes, such as his son attending a prayer vigil despite the unrest, highlighting the resilience and peaceful nature of the majority of protesters.

Reactions to Military Deployment:

• [14:57] Gomez asserts that the deployment is not for public safety but to support ICE:

"This is just one step and this could continue for at least 60 days or longer and it's going to spread to every American city in the United States. Just. Just wait."

Access to ICE Facilities:

Gomez expresses frustration over being denied access to ICE detention centers, despite his congressional authority:

"They straight up lie and they don't want to show what we are going to report."

Deployment of Marines and National Guard: Analysis with Congressman Jake Auchincloss and Kara Swisher

[20:25]

Congressman Jake Auchincloss, a Marine Corps veteran, alongside journalist Kara Swisher, analyze the implications of deploying active duty Marines for domestic law enforcement.

Swisher critiques the mismatch between military training and civilian policing:

"This is something that you would do when you are fighting the enemy, not when you are treating people who have the Bill of Rights protecting them."

Auchincloss underscores the legal and ethical concerns:

"To have military troops just standing on the streets as ICE agents are performing their duties, armed ICE agents who should be able to perform their duties and protect themselves. This starts to just have, you know, the sense of troops on the streets in a really dangerous way."

Legal and Constitutional Concerns

The podcast scrutinizes the legal authority behind Trump's orders, highlighting inconsistencies and potential violations of the Posse Comitatus Act, which restricts military involvement in domestic law enforcement. The Department of Defense and Justice have struggled to provide clear legal justification for the deployments, raising questions about the constitutionality of using military forces for immigration enforcement.

Key Points:

• Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth failed to provide a convincing legal basis during press conferences.
• DOJ Response: Initial lack of substantive legal references in official documents.

Nationwide Protests and Responses from Other States

As tensions escalate in Los Angeles, protests have spread to other major cities across the country. Governor Greg Abbott of Texas has announced the deployment of the National Guard in response to anti-ICE demonstrations in San Antonio, aiming to prevent similar militarized actions.

[36:37]

Texas Congressman Greg Kazar, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, voices strong opposition to Governor Abbott's approach:

"We need to make it very clear that it's people like Greg Abbott and Donald Trump that should own any chaos by their escalating of tensions, not Democrats or not people trying to defend the civil rights of people in their community."

Kazar emphasizes the importance of peaceful protests and condemns the state's efforts to escalate tensions through military deployments.

Interviews with Congressman Greg Kazar

[35:13] - [41:48]

Kazar discusses the broader implications of Trump's immigration policies and the nationwide backlash. He highlights how these actions threaten the rights of all Americans, not just immigrants, and calls for comprehensive reforms to protect civil liberties.

[40:13] Greg Kazar: "This is an issue about protecting the rights of all Americans."

He also touches upon the decline in Trump's approval ratings, attributing it to the unpopular and militarized approach to immigration enforcement.

Polling and Public Opinion

Recent polls indicate a significant decline in President Trump's approval ratings, particularly concerning his immigration and deportation policies. According to Quinnipiak, Trump's overall job approval is down by 16 points, and his stance on immigration is down by 11 points. These figures reflect the public's disapproval of the administration's militarized approach to immigration enforcement.

Conclusion

The episode underscores the growing resistance against President Trump's militarized immigration policies. Democratic governors and local leaders are uniting to oppose what they perceive as federal overreach, advocating for the protection of civil rights and the maintenance of peaceful protests. The widespread public outcry and declining approval ratings signal a potential shift in the political landscape, with significant implications for future immigration policies and federal-state relations.

Jen Psaki concludes by emphasizing the importance of staying informed as the situation continues to develop, with ongoing updates expected from both the ground in Los Angeles and other affected cities nationwide.

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This comprehensive summary captures the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast episode, providing a detailed overview for those who have not listened to the full content.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Unnamed Journalist]

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[Unnamed Journalist]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

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[Unnamed Journalist]

Been thinking about this fact all day. I can't get it out of my mind right now. There are more troops deployed to Los Angeles than there are deployed in Syria and Iraq combined. Let me just repeat that because I've just been thinking about this all day since one of our amazing producers shared this with me. There are more troops deployed to Los Angeles than there are deployed in Syria and Iraq combined. And right now, Donald Trump is also doing everything he can to make Los Angeles look and feel like a war zone. That's on purpose. That's what he's trying to do. Today, NBC News counted 12 Black Hawk helicopters sitting on a tarmac at an airport in Los Angeles. That is not normal, to state the obvious. Today we also got reports that the Department of Homeland Security has been flying Predator drones over Los Angeles to surveil the protests. Overall, as I was just talking about with Chris, Trump has deployed 4,000 federalized National Guard troops and 700 active duty Marines to Los Angeles. And the reality on the ground is that the protests that Trump sent these thousands of members of the military to deal with are both largely peaceful and primarily isolated within an incredibly small section of the city. You see that tiny speck on the map? That is the area we're talking about. And that is the area that's once again under curfew tonight. It's basically about one square mile covering a few blocks in downtown LA. And yet Donald Trump has sent 4700 troops into the city. A city where the police, the mayor, who don't always agree by the way, and the governor all do not want them there. And as governor Gavin Newsom said just last night during our show, California may be first, but it clearly won't end there. Other states are next. That's all part of the plan. And all of the evidence that we're seeing over the last 24 hours tells us the governor is absolutely right. I mean, on Capitol Hill today, Trump's Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, suggested that troop deployments like the ones we are seeing in LA could happen anywhere in the US if necessary. If necessary is what he said. And that statement is even more alarming considering the reporting from NBC News we told you about just last night, that ICE is preparing to deploy the same kind of tactical, militarized immigration teams to to five other big cities. Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, right here in D.C. and New York City. And the leaders of these cities are also preparing because they're seeing what's happening in LA today. At a press conference, Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson made clear he also wasn't going to back down and urged the people of his city to do the same, saying, quote, I'm counting on all of Chicago to resist in this moment because whatever particular vulnerable group is targeted today, another group will be next. And other leaders across the country are preparing, too. Today, CNN reported that other Democratic governors have been calling California Governor Gavin Newsom to tick through scenarios in their minds of how what's happened in California could play out at home for them. Now, we already know from previous NBC reporting that in order to deliver on this massive expansion across the country that Trump clearly wants, Stephen Miller clearly wants. They don't have ice, doesn't currently have the manpower to scale up like that on their own, even though the leaders, Trump and his minions want it. That's why they've had to put whole agents from other parts of the government like the FBI, the dea, and even the irs, pulling agents by the thousands off of their day jobs and assigning them to essentially fulfill Stephen Miller's fever dream. Now, it appears that the National Guard and the military are being recruited into Trump's deportation agenda as well as Here was the LAPD Chief Jim McDonnell today on CBS. We don't need the National Guard and they're not here to help us right now. They're here to facilitate what the federal agencies are doing on the immigration front. See, I'm confused because President Trump said that they were brought in to assist with the protests.

Yeah, well, that's not our understanding.

I mean, just to underline that, that was the chief of the LAPD saying that he believes the 4700 troops Trump has sent to LA are not there to handle the protests, which is questionable legally anyway. They're there to help ice. They're there to provide protection for already militarized federal agents that are taking immigrants off the streets. That's what's happening in Los Angeles right now. And here's the kind of thing that could be coming to a city near you because expansion is, is the goal here. This was the scene in the Boyle Heights neighborhood of LA today. Security camera footage shows federal agents ramming a car to apprehend a man who was reportedly wanted in connection with the protests. According to the man's family, he's an American citizen and there were also two infants in car seats when his car was rammed. You can see it. That is the scene that I'm talking about right now. Two infants in car seats in that car. We're also beginning to see churches targeted by federal agents, like in Downey in southeastern Los Angeles. In one of those raids, city leaders say an elderly man was detained while taking his granddaughter to school at one of the churches. There have been dramatic scenes like this one that took place at a car wash in Culver City on the west side of Los Angeles. Seven year old Jorge Vazquez cried uncontrollably.

[Jimmy Gomez]

As he watched ICE agents take his father away in handcuffs. His 15 year old brother Brian yelled.

[Unnamed Journalist]

I'll see you soon, Dad.

[Jimmy Gomez]

I lost.

[Unnamed Journalist]

All I feel is sad.

[Jimmy Gomez]

I can't live peacefully without my dad.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Over the weekend, several ICE raids targeted car washes, but Arthuro didn't work there. He was simply there to wash his car. There are also scenes like this one out of Hawthorne in the South Bay of Los Angeles, where a US citizen who is nine months pregnant was forcibly detained by ICE this weekend after declining to allow federal agents on what she said was federal was private property. She experienced stomach pain after her arrest and was admitted to the hospital where she later had this to say. I had lost my balance because he was kind of like shoving me away from the door. And that's when I, that's when I kind of just like leaned forward because I was kind of trying to protect the stomach. Donald Trump is now trying to export that all of this recklessness that I've just showed you, and there's much more to other American cities. And guess what? The American people don't like it. Of course they don't. Today, Quinnipiak is out with new polling showing that Donald Trump's job approval is underwater by 16 points. On immigration specifically, he is underwater by 11 points. This is the Guy who ran on the strength of his immigration and border policy on deportations. He's underwater by 16 points. Turns out empowering and militarizing. Ice, pulling people off the streets, sending, sending the military into communities is not what the majority of people in the country want to happen. No kidding. And there's been an outcry in response. I mean, since Friday, we've seen massive protests all across the country. What you're seeing on your screen now are protests in San Francisco, Denver, D.C. chicago, New York and Philadelphia. It's not even just the big metropolitan blue cities where we're seeing a lot of this. This is Oxnard, California, Louisville, Kentucky, Baltimore, Maryland, Raleigh, North Carolina, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Texas. This is Portland, Oregon, El Paso, Texas, Meriden, Connecticut, St. Louis, Missouri, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Kansas City. All across the country, people are mad. But the core of the protests is still in downtown la. Now, this area, the area of downtown LA where these protests have been focused, that area will now be, well, is still under a mandatory curfew. Again tonight, in just a few hours, it's going to start. Almost the entirety of that area is inside of the congressional district of one single congressman, Representative Jimmy Gomez. More specifically, these protests have been playing out primarily in just the few square blocks of that district that surround the Royville Federal Building, where ICE is detaining some of the immigrants they have been arresting, reportedly holding them in a makeshift detention facility in the basement of the building. Representative Gomez has repeatedly tried to get access to that detention facility to see the conditions in which people are being held. And as a member of Congress, to be clear, he is legally required to have access to facilities like this one at any time he wants, but he's been denied access again and again. And joining me now is Congressman Jimmy Gomez, who represents downtown Los Angeles. Also with us is NBC News correspondent Morgan Chesky, who is in downtown Los Angeles for us tonight. I want to start with you, Morgan. You're there. It looks like you're marching. What are you seeing? What is the scene on the ground?

[Morgan Chesky]

Yeah, Jim, we're probably in one of the largest protests that's been in downtown Los Angeles today. This began at Pershing square probably about 20 minutes ago. And right now it appears we're walking towards City hall, towards that federal building where we've seen violent acts take place over the last 72 hours or so. I have had a chance to speak to quite a few members here in the crowd. Some people, this is their third or fourth protest. Others, this is their very first time. When I asked them why it was important to come out, Jen. The same word kept coming up. They said persistence, persistence to make sure that their message is heard. And they say this is a peaceful rally. This is what we want people to pay attention to. Of course, there have been others over the last 48 hours or so, Jim, that said, they fear their message has been overshadowed by those violent scenes we've seen, particularly at nightfall here in the streets of Los Angeles. Combating that is an incredibly heavy presence of law enforcement in and around this downtown area. In fact, just about a minute ago, we walked past a large contingent of members of LAPD and they heard booze, fireworks were briefly thrown in their direction. And that is the kind of reception they had from this crowd that is continuing to move towards that federal building. Jim, we've checked the arrests by authorities over the last 48 hours or so. The overwhelming majority of them have been failure to disperse. Only a handful have been curfew violators. Mayor Karen Bass saying that that curfew goes into effect tonight at 8pm local time until 6am in the morning. As you mentioned earlier, it covers that one square mile area here in downtown L. A where so much activity has taken place. And Gil, if you could just pan up, people will recognize this place because that is City hall, that is the place that has been vandalized in and around this area. Jen, as we get closer, you'll see some of the member of law enforcement here. But I can tell you right now that the one thing I keep hearing from people is that these protests, these rallies are really just getting started. We'll send it back to you.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Morgan, thank you so much. Please, please keep us updated. I know you're just getting started in your reporting this evening as well. Thank you again for joining us. And joining me now is Congressman Jimmy Gomez. That is your district right there that you were watching on the screen. And what we're really trying to do and bring to people tonight is up to date as much as possible of what is happening. I know you've been in touch with probably your family, your constituents. What are you hearing on the ground of what's happening in your district today, especially with the Marines now on the ground? I know they're being trained more National Guardsmen as well.

[Jimmy Gomez]

One that mostly everybody's still united in the fact that they're against the way Donald Trump is approaching his immigration policy, attacking families. It started on Thursday with families that were checking in for their asylum checks with ice. All of a sudden they started getting arrested and thrown into the detention center in the basement of that building. And then that family. There was a family that was a mother and two kids. They were already deported to Texas and separated. So these are the things that are occurring and that's why my district and LA is fighting for their neighbors. They're fighting for mothers and fathers and kids. They're fighting for the people that work hard, that make our city function. 34% of the people in LA county are foreign born. Then you add in the people, their kids, it's even greater. So they're peaceful. My son and wife were at a prayer vigil last night in downtown LA. He's 2. My son's not even 3 years old. He was having a great time. And you know why? Because most of the protesters are peaceful with the. Some of them that are violent. They're actually getting arrested and getting isolated and that's what we want.

[Unnamed Journalist]

I think we have some pictures of that. We'll see if we can pull them up and show them while we're talking. We just played the sound of the Ellie, but there we go. There's your son. An amazing head of hair, but looks very happy. The point is the majority of these are peaceful. There are some incidents of violence. That's not you and others are condemning those incidents. I just play the sound of the LA police chief saying that he said this on CBS this Morning that it's his understanding the National Guard troops are in Los Angeles to assist ice. Not even to assist with maintaining calm at the protest, which is questionable anyway. What's your reaction to that?

[Jimmy Gomez]

Well, it's very predictable. Right? It was. Trump was saying that it was because it was a lawless city, that it was dangerous and that he had to protect the citizens. Not true. It was always to get federalized National Guard in order to assist the force protection of the immigration agents. And those ICE agents are completely militarized. I've seen some of them on Friday night when I got back wearing night vision goggles. Night vision goggles, full gear. So we know that this is just one step and this could continue for at least 60 days or longer and it's going to spread to every American city in the United States. Just. Just wait.

[Unnamed Journalist]

You've tried to. And I want to ask you about that too. I do want to ask you about. You've tried to visit the ICE facility in your district multiple times. I just mentioned this. You have every right. I'm just going to repeat as a member of Congress to visit these facilities at any point in time. I think there are some concerns you and others have expressed about the conditions there. Why do you think they're not letting you in? What do you think they're hiding there?

[Jimmy Gomez]

Well first they also lie when they tell us why we can't come in. It is Public Law 118 Dash 47 Title 5. If people want to look it up that gives us authority to drop in at any time. When we showed up, I actually deliberately showed up at 8:30 in the morning when there was no protest around, only with attorneys and some people in the media. And then they denied us. And we later found out they issued a statement and you know what that statement said? There was 1,000 people around the building and it was for my safety that I couldn't get in. Second time they said it was because of my safety. I've been to places in the Middle east where I had to throw on a Kevlar vest or a bulletproof vest with security and an arm armored car. This is not a dangerous place. And if it's dangerous for me inside, it's also dangerous for the people who work there. So they straight up lie and they don't want to show what we are going to report. One, it's probably overcrowded. Two, they're probably not getting the food and water or getting access to medicine and they're probably sleeping on the floor because that facility is only supposed to hold 100 people for no more than 12 hours. People are saying they're over 24 hours.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Well I hope you get in there when you get back and come talk to us about it again. It is a strange place to be in that you are in. Governor Newsom is in. You have become almost a version of experts of what to do in these scenarios as this is going to expand. As you just said. Have you heard from fellow members of Congress and others who are represent some of these cities and who expect anticipate having kind of ice and others come to their cities. And what are you telling them in terms of how they should handle it?

[Jimmy Gomez]

I'm not telling them anything. I'm showing them how they should handle it by basically standing up for their constituents, exerting their right as members of Congress to check out facilities, to show up when necessary and not to back down. Keep your. But at the same time these folks will lie about what happened. So you keep your arms to your side. They might try to arrest you at a moment's notice. So we have to show leadership not by talking but by doing. And that's what I want every member of Congress to understand. And yes, we're risking getting arrested, getting separated from our families. They actually arresting us, prosecuting us and bankrupting our families. A lot of us don't have money like they do on the Republican side. So this is dangerous. But you know what? This is the moment that we're in office. This is the moment where we all have to stand up. And I think the Democratic Caucus is rising to the occasion.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Congressman Jimmy Gomez, thank you so much. I know this is very personal for you. It's just your community and I really appreciate you joining me tonight. Thank you again.

[Jimmy Gomez]

Thank you.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Coming up, we're going to talk about brand new reporting about what exactly the US Marines are doing in Los Angeles right now. Congressman Jake Auchincloss is a Marine Corps veteran. He's been very outspoken about this issue. And he joins me here at the table in just 90 seconds. We are following what I can only describe as alarming developments regarding the thousands of military personnel who have been deployed to the city of Los Angeles to respond to what has largely been peaceful protests over Trump's immigration raids. Today, California National Guard Major General Scott Sherman, the commander in charge of what's being called Task Force Force 51, confirmed that military personnel, including 700 active duty Marine infantrymen, have been authorized to detain civilians up until the point when civilian law enforcement is able to arrest them. And according to the Associated Press, some National Guardsmen have already begun to do so. If that causes your hair to stand on end, I don't blame you. It does it to me and I know it does it to our my next guest as well. Marines in particular are not trained for domestic law enforcement or crowd control. Marines are trained to be lethal on the battlefield. And despite the fact that the protests in Los Angeles appear to be calming down, General Sherman warned that he expects the situation to escalate, telling the ap, quote, we are expecting a ramp up. Now, that ramp up may mean Marines not just in Los Angeles, but in other cities across the US Where ICE is carrying out raids.

[Morgan Chesky]

And you said the Marines will only.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Be used in the city of Los Angeles?

[Jimmy Gomez]

I do not know that.

[Greg Kazar]

Just depending on where the federal agencies will need to have them be used.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Okay.

[Greg Kazar]

So we could see them in other places.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman and Marine Corps veteran Jake Auchincloss. Thank you so much for being here with me. This is one of the parts of the story that has, as I said, really made my hair stand on end. You served. You were once in command of an infantry platoon at Twentynine Palms, which is the base where many of these Marines are Being deployed from what kind of training? What should we know about what they do at that base to prepare them, if it prepares them for what they're being asked to do here?

[Kara Swisher]

Good evening, Jen. Thanks for having me on. It does not prepare them for what they are being asked to do right now, which is domestic law enforcement, a job that the LAPD are well trained to do and have the situation fully in hand. According to the LAPD police chief, the Marines on 29 palms, and these are infantry, Marines are trained for years to locate, close with and destroy the enemy. They are trained to fight the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, the Chinese People's Liberation Army. They are not trained to police their fellow citizens. And these officers, these sergeants and corporals and lieutenants and captains are put in an impossible situation right now because they swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. They also swear an oath to obey orders from the President. But right now, the President is ordering them to do something that does not support the Constitution.

[Unnamed Journalist]

I've been thinking about this a lot as well. I mean, they are just delivering on what they're ordered to do. This is not what they trained to do. This is a very high level training facility where they're doing this. As you just stated, they are the type of Marines, type of military that would be deployed to the Middle east or to places where there is greater conflict, international conflict.

[Kara Swisher]

29 palms is the Marine Corps premier live fire training facility. And it's worth picturing how these Marines are trained for militarized operations on urban terrain, which is what they train for. When it comes to urban combat in the desert, they have all these shipping containers that are stacked on top of each other to represent a city. And when you're a platoon commander or a company commander, what you do is you take your Marines and you bring up some armored vehicles and you train fire on those buildings and then you use that fire to suppress the enemy. And Marines start to maneuver into the building and clear that building out. And you do that building by building. This is not something you would ever do to an American city. This was something that you would do if the Iranians had occupied a Syrian city. Right? This is something that you do when you are fighting the enemy, not when you are treating people who have the Bill of Rights protecting them. It is a gross misalignment of tactics with need.

[Unnamed Journalist]

I wanted to ask you about what Major General Scott Sherman said, which is that these 700 active duty Marine infantrymen have been authorized to detain civilians up until the point when civilian law enforcement is able to arrest them.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what that means. I candidly do not know what that means. Because if you are detaining somebody against their will, immediately you are entering into police territory, and that is a violation of posse comitatus. These Marines are trained for the law of armed conflict, which has much lower standards. It has humane standards, but has lower standards for detention of civilians. The LAPD are trained to detain people with due process. And trying to create a confluence of the two is a recipe for civil rights violations. And again, it's unfair to these Marines, these sergeants and corporals. They're just not trained for this. Four days of sloppy training thrown together at the last minute by Pete Hegseth ain't gonna cut it.

[Unnamed Journalist]

No, it's not. I wanted to ask you about something related to Pete Hegseth, actually. He posted this photo online of three National Guardmen carrying rifles, effectively acting as bodyguards for ICE agents who appear to be carrying out an. In California, Democrats are asking a federal court to stop the Trump administration from doing this, saying it will escalate tensions. Of course. Seems very likely. What do you make of these? We're all just trying to make sense of this. What do you make of these Guardsmen being deployed to assist with these ICE raids? Being armed to do that?

[Kara Swisher]

If a governor calls up the National Guard to respond to a situation that local police cannot accommodate, that's legitimate. If the president federalizes the National Guard to respond to a natural disaster or in situations where there is an insurrection or there is a systemic violation of constitutional rights, like we saw with the school segregation during the civil rights era, that's appropriate. ICE officials are fully armed and equipped to carry out these arrests. They are lawfully able to carry out these arrests. It is unclear to me why they need to militarize that process.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Congressman Jay Goggings, thank you so much for being here for your service and also helping explain to the viewers what there is, why there's reason to be concerned, which there clearly is. Really appreciate you joining us.

[Kara Swisher]

Thanks, Jen.

[Unnamed Journalist]

We have just taken a very quick break. My next guest is relevant to all of this news in a way, in a way that very few others are. She's a former Navy helicopter pilot. She's a former federal prosecutor. And after her big win last night, she's now the Democratic nominee in a race for governor. Congressman Mikey Sherrill is standing by, and she's going to join me next. What is the authority that the administration is using to deploy active duty Marines to California neighborhoods? What authority, Senator?

[Jimmy Gomez]

The president has constitutional authority.

[Unnamed Journalist]

In order to cite the provision of the Constitution, I'd have to pull up the specific provision. Seems a little bit out of his depth, which is an evergreen statement. Today, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth struggled with mightily to explain the legal authority behind Donald Trump's order to deploy American troops to an American city. But of course, he is a longtime week in cable news, Post turned defense secretary, not a lawyer. So let's take a look at the table of authorities page in the Justice Department's response to California's lawsuit to block the Trump administration from using troops to assist with immigration raids in Los Angeles. Let's take a look at that. Yep, it's blank. I don't think that's how the page is supposed to look. Just going out on a limb there. But DOJ lawyers appear to have forgotten to fill out that page, although they did eventually fix that error. Good job, guys. Good job. Trump's lawyers are arguing that the president has every right to do what he wants with the National Guard and Marines, citing both the Constitution and a little known law from 1903. Now, historically, that law has been invoked in tandem with the Insurrection Act. So the fact that Trump is trying to decouple the two now leads to some pretty big questions, like how is this legal? And if legal, what functions would troops actually be able to perform? Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Mikey Sherrill of New Jersey. She's a veteran and a former federal prosecutor. She's also the newly minted Democratic candidate for governor of New Jersey. You must be very tired. You have an unbelievable bio to help us make sense of this moment. So thank you for being willing to do that. Let me just start by asking you, I mean, how do you and the Department of Justice's legal argument defending Trump deploying troops to Los Angeles.

You know, the worst part about this is they don't even seem to be trying. So as you kind of pointed out, I have experience in both these areas. So I'm a former Navy helicopter pilot. I served in the military for almost 10 years, a former federal prosecutor. I've worked closely with law enforcement as well. Those are two very different missions. And the Posse Comitatus act says we don't put law, we don't put military people, troops on our streets in all but a very few instances. And I know you had Jake on earlier talking about those instances. So we do that because we don't want to be a military state. This is a civilian led democracy. And the idea that the Secretary of Defense who seemed to be really spurring on this call for putting Marines on the streets of la. And the idea that the Department of Justice has not really, I think, laid out a good case saying, look, it's the Insurrection Act. And this is why, especially given that the Governor has everything under control, has what he needs, has not asked for these military troops, and they also seem to be loitering in la. Given the mission that our military has, the complicated times we're in, we're now removing people from the Middle East. It appears families are moving and stuff. I think there are some concerns there. So I think right now we're looking at a very complicated world. Highly trained military members who we want to protect us here at home, but we don't want on our streets because they're not trained to police the streets of this country, nor should they be.

That was one of the things the Congressman and I were talking about too, the position this puts the Marines in and the National Garden. A large Part of DOJ's argument hinges on the National Guard and the Marine. Their argument that the National Guard and the Marines are not engaged in law enforcement enforcement, they are protecting law enforcement. As you said, you've kind of lived in many of the worlds, the legal world. You're also a veteran yourself. What do you think of that argument?

Law enforcement is trained to protect themselves. They are armed and we allow them to be armed so they can protect themselves, but also to protect our streets because they perform dangerous missions. The military is not a force to put on the streets to protect law enforcement. That just doesn't even, that's not even part of their mission. As somebody who is a veteran, that doesn't even make sense to me that, that ISIS being done. And then I think, like you pointed out earlier, the idea that then they can detain people and hold them, that is a law enforcement act. That is why you need to invoke the Insurrection act and lay out what you're doing with the military people on the street. Because that action, detaining people is what law enforcement does. To just have military troops on the streets of the United States of America that can hold people and detain them without charges, that's really dangerous. That's not something we want on our streets. That becomes a very militaristic society. And I say this from personal experience, having served all over the world, look, we should not have violence on our streets. And if the Governor needs in certain instances to call the President to have National Guard troops come in to help with security, that isyou know, those are extreme measures that arethat can be taken. But to have military troops just standing on the streets as ICE agents are performing their duties, armed ICE agents who should be able to perform their duties and protect themselves. This starts to just have, you know, the sense of troops on the streets in a really dangerous way. It's why you see people like Admiral McRaven. It's why, you know, who disfavors this. General Milley, Admiral Stavridos, Admiral Mullen, former SecDefs, they've all come out to say, and these are people that have worked for Democrats and Republicans, even some who've worked for Trump in the past, saying this is not an appropriate use of our military troops.

Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill, there's so much I want to ask you about the race. The general election started today. I hope you'll come back and we'll talk about that. I know you have many, many differences with your opponent about this and many other things. Thank you again so much for joining me. And coming up, we're keeping an eye.

Of course, on this. Thank you so much.

Thank you. We're coming. We're keeping an eye, of course, on what's happening in la. I also have some things to get off my chest about the politics of everything happening right now. So I'm going to do that after a very quick break. And we'll be right back. We told you at the top of the show, we're going to keep you updated as anything changes or happens on the ground. So we're going to go back to NBC's Morgan Chesky, who's in Los Angeles before the break. Morgan, things seem to be getting a little chaotic there. What's going on on the ground?

[Morgan Chesky]

Yeah, Jen, this crowd has grown in front of LA City Home. And we do know that there was a line of police down the street. Things were thrown at each other, both sides to the point where police deployed flashbangs as well as what I'm holding right here. This is one of the rubber bullets that struck our producer here as we moved back into a safer location. And as we push in here, Gill, you can see some of the officers on horseback that immediately moved in to push this crowd out in front of City Hall. They're maintaining their position. What you can't see, Jin, is behind them. You have dozens of officers in riot gear. And Gil, if we come back this way, you can see where some of the crowd has moved here. Be careful as we walk this way. It's definitely a semi chaotic situation here. Things have been somewhat calm within the last 90 seconds or so, Jin, there was a station right along this line here, and we're going to walk up until we feel we're a safe distance away. But essentially this is where the line of law enforcement is meeting the line of protesters here. We have not seen any arrests take place, but there have definitely been words exchanged and the tension has certainly risen since we arrived here about 45 minutes to an hour ago. Jin, I'm reminded of the people that I walked with here that said they wanted this to be a peaceful protest. Important note, Jin, for the most part, everyone was gathering, chanting in front of the steps of City Hall. There was a group on the backside of this rally that started throwing things at the officers, and that is what led to this scene that we're right in the middle of right now. Again, this may not look like much, but when it's coming out of one of those launchers and strikes someone, it can absolutely make a serious impact here. Fortunately, though, we're keeping our distance at this point in time and it looks like law enforcement only holding their position here and not advancing. Firing anything else into the crowd? No tear gas that we've seen, at least at this point in time.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Jen, I assume your producer is okay when with you and were there a lot of those shot out or could you tell in the chaos of the moment?

[Morgan Chesky]

There was a handful shot into the crowd. Producer Jim's doing just fine and so everyone is safe and sound for now. But I think this reinforces the fact that a few authorities are definitely being more present, definitely being larger in number than we've seen in days past. And I think the patience with which they're willing to deal with some of these crowds is wearing somewhat thin.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Jen Morgan, Chesky, thank you so much for bringing us another update from the ground. Really appreciate it. As we go to break, we're going to keep talking about this, but I also want to and I also want to show you these scenes out of San Antonio, Texas, where protesters have taken to the streets in response to the ICE raids in their community. We'll have more from the Lone Star State with Texas Congressman Greg Kazar when we're back in a moment. The latest polls make it clear and the public outcry makes it clear, too. Overreaching on immigration is not only a moral loser, it's a political loser for Trump so far. And protests over that overreach are spreading nationwide. No Kings rallies are planned in all 50 states this Saturday and are expected to be massive. But these protests are spreading across the COUNTRY Tonight. This is the scene in San Antonio, Texas right now. Hundreds of people holding signs, playing music, cheering and chanting peacefully, protesting ICE raids in their community. In response to organizers planning that San Antonio rally, Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced that he would deploy the National Guard to target anti ICE protests across the Lone Star State. And joining us now is Texas Congressman Greg Kazar. He's also the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. So we're showing photos. This is essentially. You're part of your district?

[Greg Kazar]

No, I'm texting with people there who.

[Unnamed Journalist]

Are there right now. Well, first of all, I just described it as peaceful. It looked very peaceful. What are they telling you people you're texting with on the ground?

[Greg Kazar]

Yeah. You know, independent journalists right there are describing these peaceful protests where we just had protests in San Antonio just a couple days ago. Same thing, Hundreds of people, zero incident. But people like Donald Trump and Governor Abbott are actually trying to escalate this situation. Right. They're trying to light the fire, pour gasoline on it. Everybody else gets burned and they try to blame Democrats for it. We need to make it very clear that it's people like Greg Abbott and Donald Trump that should own any chaos by their escalating of tensions, not Democrats or not people trying to defend the civil rights of people in their community.

[Unnamed Journalist]

The difference here, not to scare people from Texas who are watching, but they're probably firm stock. Governor Newsom is trying to protect the people in his state. I mean, he doesn't want it to be militarized. He doesn't want the National Guard to be intervening in these protests. That's sort of the opposite of the governor of Texas.

[Greg Kazar]

Right. In Texas, you have the president and the governor separating families just at a rate like we've never seen before. And then when people go out into what anybody would do, protest people in your community being terrified or even worse, people from your community being taken away unjustly when they go out there and protest. We have a governor that I think sincerely wants to see someone get hurt so that then he could act like a strong man to come in and save the day, when really it's people like the governor that are stoking up this kind of division. They thrive on this chaos and on division. And we have to be able to go out there and say, no, we should keep everyone safe, including people that want to express their First Amendment rights.

[Unnamed Journalist]

What do you. I mean, the thing is that for people who organize protests or are a big part of it, they want them to be peaceful because that makes a successful protest what do you tell people who are calling your office, who may be scared about whether they'll be safe, don't know what to do, or fearful for themselves or their neighbors with these ICE raids?

[Greg Kazar]

Look, Donald Trump does not want people to hear about what he's really doing on immigration because it is incredibly unpopular, including with people in Texas that voted for Donald Trump, for kids hands to be zip tied together in a San Antonio courthouse because it might be an immigrant kid today, but then it very well could be your neighbor's kid, a US Citizen kid tomorrow. And so this is incredibly unpopular. And when folks are asking about, should I go out there and protest peacefully? Look, it's a long held American tradition and it oftentimes is the people of the United States that have made injustice public, even when the leaders of our country want to hide it. And so really, as an elected official, I can speak out, but it means even more when it's your neighbor talking to your neighbor or somebody from work that says, hey, we're going to go out there and, and make our voices heard in what could be a scary time.

[Unnamed Journalist]

You were watching. What ICE is doing is scary. I mean, it's horrifying. And what we're seeing in LA and other communities. You were kind of on the early end in 2018 of calling for the abolishment of ICE. You said recently, I think that you've kind of changed your position. But what do you think now about what should happen here with the future of ICE as they're being militarized by this administration?

[Greg Kazar]

The abuse is out of control. I think that we can all agree, kind of wherever it is you fall on the spectrum here in the Democratic Party, this is just unacceptable. And what we're seeing now is that Donald Trump has gone so extreme that this isn't now just about immigrant rights. This is about the rights of everyone, including the rights of kids. I mean, let's just start with the kids. In Texas, an eight year old recovering from brain cancer was deported and separated from the medical care that it is that she needed. We have ICE officers showing up at our school districts pretending that they're coming to check in on kids with parental consent and their parents have not given consent and their teachers are having to ask for warrants. In my district, as we just described, there are photographs of kids with their hands zip tied together. And so this is no longer just an immigrants rights issue. It's an issue about protecting the rights of all Americans. And, and I think that connects to our need to reform these federal agencies. To make sure that they actually follow the Constitution and basic rights. So I think we kind of have gone beyond the 2017, 2018 moment to one where everyone's rights are at stake. I mean, look, you don't have to be an immigrants rights voter to recognize that it's really scary for the President United States to take the Marines that are supposed to be protecting us in war and sending them for political purposes into our American cities. That's not what those Marines are trained for and it's not what they want to do.

[Unnamed Journalist]

No question about that. We're seeing that in polls, too. It's not just the morality of it, it's the politics of it, too. Congressman Greg Kazari, I was enjoying talking to you. Thank you so much.

[Greg Kazar]

Good talking to you, too. Time to go on offense on some of these issues.

[Unnamed Journalist]

That's right. You always are. You're an offense guy, which I love. Okay, we have to take a very quick break, but trust me, you're going to want to stick around to hear Lawrence's opening monologue tonight. I will be. He also has Senator Adam Schiff standing by. And we'll be right back. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.

[Nicole Wallace]

MSNBC presents a new original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week, Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week, she sits down with journalist Kara Swisher.

[Kara Swisher]

There's all kinds of heroes.

[Unnamed Journalist]

I mean, I think average people are the heroes, right?

[Nicole Wallace]

The Best People with Nicole Wallace listen now. For early access and free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.