Epstein survivor breaks her silence on 'the list,' Mar-a-Lago and the fight for justice

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Epstein survivor breaks her silence on 'the list,' Mar-a-Lago and the fight for justice
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Guests: Charlene Richard (Epstein survivor), Sky and Amanda Roberts (brother and sister-in-law of late survivor Virginia Giuffre), Congressman Robert Garcia

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Overview

This episode centers on the historic passage of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, a bill compelling the Department of Justice to release all files related to Jeffrey Epstein. Jen Psaki examines the extraordinary activism that forced the bill through Congress—despite resistance from Donald Trump and allies—and the powerful testimony of survivors. For the first time, survivor Charlene Richard speaks out, sharing her story and the dangers faced by those seeking justice. The episode features in-depth discussions on survivor advocacy, legislative battles, the limits and loopholes in the bill, and what's next for justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Historic Epstein Files Bill

(00:49–11:55, 23:09–37:41)

• Major Legislative Milestone:
  The bill to release all DOJ-held Epstein files unexpectedly passed both chambers of Congress with overwhelming bipartisan support—only one no vote, from Rep. Clay Higgins.
  • Host, Jen Psaki (00:49):
    “A bill that will compel the Justice Department to release the Epstein files is on its way to Donald Trump’s desk... None of it was enough. None of it worked. They tried everything they could to stop it, and they failed.”
• Political Resistance:
  Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson attempted to block the bill through various maneuvers (sending Congress home, resisting swearing-in, pressuring colleagues), but survivor activism prevailed.
• Activism Made the Difference:
  The unrelenting advocacy of survivors, who publicly shared traumatic stories, was the key force behind the bill's passage.
  • Host, Jen Psaki (09:26):
    “They took on the most powerful person in the world and they won. And tonight, their stories are more important than ever.”

2. Survivor Testimony: Charlene Richard’s Story

(11:55–21:46, 23:09–29:07)

Why Speak Out Now?

• Charlene Richard (12:36):
  “Because I finally feel safe to be able to come out and tell my story and I feel that it’s time. Today is a monumental day, and I feel like we’re making history...”

Entry into Epstein’s World

• Met Epstein as a teenage model, highlighting how the modeling industry can function as a network for predators.
  • Charlene Richard (14:44):
    “He was heavily involved in the modeling system... It can be worked as a different kind of system for predators... I really want all the young girls and boys... to understand what a predator is, what the signs are...”

Abuse, Trafficking, and Complicity

• Was trafficked as a minor to various locations—including Epstein’s island and Mar-a-Lago—through “model parties.”
• When asked directly about Trump’s awareness, she replied:
  • Charlene Richard (17:27):
    “I don’t know if he was aware. Actually, I can’t answer that. I’m sorry.”
• She confirms she was trafficked to other people but declines to name names due to safety and legal fears.
  • Charlene Richard (18:36):
    “Terrible things had happened to me within my time with dealing with Jeffrey Epstein. I had encounters with people that I would rather not have.”

The Fear of Naming Names

• Survivors detail the very real dangers (legal and physical) of naming powerful men involved.
  • Sky Roberts (19:20):
    “These rich and powerful men... can sue you into homelessness would be a big part of it. But B, it puts serious threat on your life and your family’s life... There were times where my sister was sitting across people and they would push a picture of her own children in front of her and essentially say, I know where your kids go to school.”

On “The List” and Remaining Secrets

• Some abusers’ names are publicly unknown and not currently on released lists.
  • Host (20:43), Charlene Richard (20:46):
    “Are there names out there that have not been out there yet?”
    “Yes.”
  • Host (20:47):
    “That you were trafficked to?”
    Charlene Richard: “There’s names of people that are out there that are not on the list.”

Notable Quote

• Survivor’s message to Trump and those seeking to silence victims:
  • (05:03) “I am traumatized. I am not stupid. I am traumatized. I am not stupid.”

3. The Fight for Justice & the Role of Allies

(23:09–29:07)

• Survivor Community:
  The testimonies and shared struggle create a sense of solidarity and hope, even as the fight continues.

  • Amanda Roberts (23:52):
    “For the very first time, that Vote yes was an acknowledgement for survivors that this did happen, that they are truth tellers, that we see them, that we believe them...”

• Charlene Richard (25:25):
  “Today means that we’re actually being seen. It means that maybe transparency is possible, maybe justice will be served. Maybe all of the people that have been through this, not just Epstein survivors, but this is where for everybody, this is for America...”

• Tribute to Virginia Giuffre:
  Her courage and activism are cited as foundational to this moment. Survivors wear butterflies in her memory.

  • Sky Roberts (28:18):
    “She did it. She paved the way... It’s acknowledgment to my sister that she was a truth teller this whole time.”

• Ongoing Fears about Implementation:
  Survivors, their advocates, and some lawmakers suspect the Trump administration may use new investigations or loopholes (ongoing prosecutions, national security) to delay or block full file releases.

  • Amanda Roberts (26:38):
    “That potentially this could be another stone wall that could be thrown out at them... Help us with legislation. Help us figure out the pathways and maneuvers around these roadblocks that we keep hitting over and over again.”

4. Legislative Details & Oversight Challenges

(29:18–41:39)

Mechanics of the Bill's File Release

• DOJ (Attorney General Pam Bondi) is mandated to release all relevant, unclassified Epstein-related files within 30 days of presidential signing—but files that jeopardize ongoing investigations may be temporarily withheld.
  • Host (31:53):
    “If Trump signs a bill tomorrow... logistically, how do you expect that will happen? Like, is it going to all get dumped on the DOJ website at some point or how will the information go out?”

Congressman Robert Garcia on Next Steps

• Skepticism About Compliance:
  Garcia expects the administration may release already public or selective documents, possibly stall with new “sham” investigations.
  • Garcia (31:53):
    “He might choose to be very selective in what he actually sends a committee... or he might try to stall the whole thing through this new sham investigation that he’s now launching.”
• Ongoing Bipartisanship is Fragile:
  Some Republicans joined only after Trump “gave the OK,” and Garcia has low confidence the support will hold under further pressure.
  • Garcia (34:23):
    “A vast majority still will do whatever Donald Trump wants them to do... it was only until Donald Trump gave them the okay that a majority... had any sort of interest in telling that story for the survivors.”
• Redactions and Loopholes:
  There are concerns Trump’s DOJ will overuse redactions and ongoing investigations to hide key documents.
  • Garcia (37:41):
    “We have to watch this investigation the DOJ is launching into apparently political enemies of the president... That investigation... is going to be used as a way for the DOJ to then keep important information and documents from the American public, the Congress, and our committee.”

Expanding Congressional Investigation

• New subpoenas have gone out to JP Morgan Chase & Deutsche Bank, seeking Epstein’s financial records to trace money and complicit partners.
  • Garcia (39:48):
    “These banks and this financial information is critical in understanding who was paying Jeffrey Epstein, who Jeffrey Epstein was paying, and what powerful men were essentially money laundering through Epstein in this enormous trafficking ring.”

Ongoing Communication with Epstein Estate

• The committee has also been receiving emails and documents from the Epstein estate and promises to make them public as soon as possible.
  • Garcia (41:10):
    “Anything and any document that we get, we want to make public to the American people.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Survivor direct address (to Trump):
  (05:03) “I am traumatized. I am not stupid.”
• On the bipartisan change:
  (00:49) “The power of the stories of these survivors... was no match for the pressure from Donald Trump and Mike Johnson... None of it worked. They failed.”
• On survivor solidarity:
  (13:37) Amanda Roberts: “Virginia stays alive through all of us.”
• On redacting abuser names:
  (19:20) Sky Roberts: “These rich and powerful men... can sue you into homelessness... it puts serious threat on your life and your family’s life.”
• On being seen:
  (25:25) Charlene Richard: “Today means that we’re actually being seen... this is for America.”
• On ongoing resistance:
  (37:41) Garcia: “Donald Trump, from day one, has not wanted to release these files... [But] whether Donald Trump wants it or not, we’re going to get all of those files released.”

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Key Timestamps

• Bill details & political resistance: 00:49–09:26
• Historic moment for survivors: 09:26–11:55
• Charlene Richard’s testimony, first half: 11:55–21:46
• On naming names & “the list”: 18:36–20:56
• Hope, progress, and survivor advocacy: 23:09–29:07
• Garcia on bill mechanics and oversight: 31:53–41:39
• Discussion of financial subpoenas: 39:48–41:39

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Conclusion

This episode captures a pivotal moment in the fight for accountability and transparency in the Epstein case, emphasizing that survivor advocacy—not political leadership—is driving real change. While passage of the Epstein Files Transparency Act brings hope, both survivors and lawmakers recognize significant challenges remain to ensure true justice and prevent further cover-up. The path forward will require persistent public pressure, continued bipartisan congressional action, and above all, the courage of survivors speaking their truth.

Transcript

[Charlene Richard]

Welcome to Walgreens.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Looking for a holiday gift?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Sort of. My cousin Freddie showed up to surprise us.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

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[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Exactly.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

So now I have to get him.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

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[Congressman Robert Garcia]

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[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Download Today Tonight. And you won't know this because you're paying close attention. A bill that will compel the Justice Department to release the Epstein files is currently on its way to Donald Trump's desk. His team says he's going to sign that tomorrow. And let me just say that one more time. A bill that will compel the Justice Department to release the Epstein files is on its way to Donald Trump's desk. I have been in this town a very long time. I've seen lots of bills passed, lots of bills stall, lots of bills fail. I just cannot possibly overstate how remarkable that is. Donald Trump tried to desperately stop this night from happening. He did everything he possibly could. Mike Johnson did everything he possibly could to stop this night from happening. Mike Johnson sent Congress home for a month over the summer to stop this from happening. Remember that? Mike Johnson refused to swear in a duly elected member of Congress for over a month to stop this from happening. Donald Trump's henchmen tried to strong arm a Republican member of Congress in in the Situation Room as if supporting the release of the Epstein files is a national security issue in order to stop this from happening. None of it was enough. None of it worked. They tried everything they could to stop it, and they failed. And now that bill is on its way to Donald Trump's desk. And just as remarkable as the story of today is, is the story of how we arrived at today. Because we would not be here without the activism of so many fearless survivors who have shared their incredibly tragic traumatic personal stories and pushed Congress to finally take Action. In the end, the pressure from Donald Trump and Mike Johnson and all their Republican allies, that that was no match for the power of the stories of these survivors. And tonight you're going to hear my conversation with one of those survivors, a woman who not only suffered the horrific abuses of Epstein himself, but also the abuses of other powerful men in his orbit. And that's a big part of this story, too. It's not just about one man and it's not just about Jeffrey Epstein. It's about a whole web of people who preyed on these women. She's never told that story publicly before today, but she joined me here earlier tonight to do just that. We're going to bring you that interview in just a second. But first, let's just remember for just a moment. Just a week ago, there were only four Republicans in the House supporting the release of the Epstein files. And there was a constant concern that they would be peeled off at any given moment. Four Republicans who stuck their neck out and resisted a tremendous pressure campaign by Donald Trump and his administration. And now the Epstein Files Transparency act used to be known as the discharge petition. That's what it's called. Now. The bill has passed both the House and the Senate with only a single lawmaker voting no. Now, just for the record, because I'm sure you're wondering, who is that person? How bizarre. The person who voted no was Republican Congressman Clay Higgins, who I bet is is going to have a lot of explaining to do in the coming days and a lot of questions we'll have to answer to Capitol Hill reporters. That aside, the bill itself is both extraordinary in its potential impact, but pretty straightforward in its actual text. It requires Attorney General Pam Bonney to, quote, release all documents and records in possession of the Department of Justice relating to Jeffrey Epstein no later than 30 days after it's enacted. So that bill again on its way to Donald Trump's desk where he can either sign or veto it, which feels if he did the latter, like, it wouldn't exactly sit well, given it passed with a veto proof majority in both the House and the Senate. In other words, Congress kind of, well, they did force his hand here. And by this weekend, even Trump himself seemed to know where this was headed, at least in the House. Because when it became clear he could not stop the momentum behind the bill, he decided to try to save face, I guess. Here's what he said just yesterday.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

So I'm for any. I don't.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

They can do whatever they want. We'll give them everything.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Sure. I would.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Sure I would. Really? I mean, really, you're suddenly okay with the bill you've been opposing for months? I'm very skeptical of this, and I don't think I'm the only one. I mean, here's one of the survivors at the press conference on Capitol Hill today. And to the President of the United States of America who is not here today, I want to send a clear message to you. While I do understand that your position has changed on the Epstein files, and I'm grateful that you have pledged to sign this bill, I can't help to be skeptical of what the agenda is. I want to relay this message to you. I am traumatized. I am not stupid. I am traumatized. I am not stupid. That really stuck with me. I mean, there is good reason to question whether the President has had an actual sudden change of heart. Trump doesn't actually need Congress to compel him to release these files. He could have done that himself at any given moment over the many, many months, and he didn't. Not to mention, it was just last week that we got a trove of more than 20,000 emails from the Epstein estate. And Trump's name appeared more than any other figure in those emails with Epstein himself, alleging that Trump, quote, knew about the girls. Hard to imagine that after all of that, Trump suddenly wants even more Epstein documents to become public. And then there's the investigation that Trump ordered into several prominent Democrats over their alleged ties to Epstein, which could just be a ploy to block the release of those files. And that's because, according to the text of the bill that just passed by Congress, the Attorney General can withhold any files that would jeopardize an active federal investigation or ongoing prosecution, provided that such withholding is narrowly tailored and temporary. So could Trump try to use that provision, along with his new investigation, to block the release of any files he doesn't want out there? Well, I mean, Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, one of the few Republicans who has pushed for the release of these files from the very start, it's already calling.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Him out on that. If they have ongoing investigations in certain areas, those documents can't be released. So this might be a big smokescreen, these investigations, to open a bunch of them as a last ditch effort to prevent the release of the Epstein files.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

So even as this bill heads to Donald Trump's desk, which is a very significant moment, some members of Congress are still working on other ways to get new information. I mean, just today, the House Oversight Committee subpoenaed Epstein's financial records from the banks JPMorgan Chase and Deutsche Bank. Later on this hour, I'm going to talk to Robert Garcia, who's of course the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, about what ways he is preparing for the possibility that Trump may try to stonewall. And I'm not trying to be dark here or Debbie Downer, just important to be clear eyed about all the things he might try to do. And I'm going to also talk to him about what he can do about it and what Congress is still working to uncover. The finances and the money is a big part of this, always has been. And Congressman Garcia deserves a lot of credit for this bill passing today. So does Congressman Ro Khanna and Congressman Thomas Massie, and, yeah, I mean, so does Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and a lot of other members. But the people who deserve the most credit, far more than any elected official, are the survivors, who have been relentless and courageous, many of them, for years, in their efforts to get these files released. And today, those survivors made clear that they will keep fighting until everyone involved in Jeffrey Epstein's despicable crimes is brought to justice. For too long, survivors have watched others speak for us. And while we are grateful for our allies in Congress on both sides, we've realized something.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

This fight belongs to us.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

We lived it and we know the truth.

[Charlene Richard]

That's why we stand here today to.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Demand justice and accountability, not just for Epstein and his crimes, but for every predator and every enabler who participates in or protects abusers. Without transparency, there's no accountability. Without accountability, there is no justice. And without justice, democracy dies. Our voices are real, our pain is real.

[Charlene Richard]

And our demand for justice will not be silenced.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

While their fight continues, those survivors have done something few thought possible. This was the moment earlier tonight at a candlelight vigil when many of those same survivors learned that the bill had passed the Senate unanimously. The Senate has passed the bill under unanimous success. What an incredible moment for those survivors, people who have been many of them fighting publicly for years or just fighting all of this privately for years. It's hard to imagine, too, that this was a moment Donald Trump ever wanted to see happen. But those survivors made it happen. They took on the most powerful person in the world and they won. And tonight, their stories are more important than ever. In just 90 seconds, you're going to hear my conversation with Charlene Richard, who is telling her story for the very first time.

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[Congressman Robert Garcia]

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[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Joining me now is Charlene Richard, an Epstein survivor who's speaking out and telling her story for the very first time tonight. And sky and Amanda Roberts, the brother and sister in law of Virginia Giuffre who have been fighting tirelessly for justice in her memory. I don't think we would be at this point we are today without their advocacy. Thank you Charlene for being here with us today. I want to start by just asking you. You have been through so much and you have decided to share your story today. You spoke at a press conference on Capitol Hill today. It looked like you'd done it before but and here you are to share your story. Why did you decide that now is the time you wanted to share what you've been through?

[Charlene Richard]

Because I finally feel safe to be able to come out and tell my story and I feel that it's time. Today is a monumental day and I feel like we're making history and I want to support everybody, all the girls that are there and sky and Amanda and everybody who's already been involved with this and speaking out before me.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

I was watching your faces today when Charlene was talking and so many of the other survivors. You were not the only person who was speaking out for the first time today. It's so courageous what you did today and what you're here doing and I was wondering what was going through your minds because I know you think a lot about Virginia in these moments and how she inspired people, how she had the courage to come out. What was going through your mind when you were watching Charlene talk this morning?

[Amanda Roberts]

I felt Virginia. I felt Virginia in her voice and Charlene's story and who she is. And I think she was there empowering every single one of them and every single one of us. And we just miss her so much physically. But having this bond and connection I've gained so many sisters and I'm so grateful for was a beautiful and powerful moment. And I think it's. Virginia stays alive through all of us.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

There's no question about that. And we're all wearing butterflies right now. I know Virginia's story has impacted so many people because they could see their daughters and their sisters and their neighbor. And I know that's part of why you want to share your story, too. I know this is incredibly difficult. So you can share what you want of your story. It's yours to share. Let me start by just asking you how you got involved in Epstein's world to begin with.

[Charlene Richard]

So I was modeling and traveling as a model, and I met him through a friend. He was heavily involved in the modeling system. I think I want to call it a system because even though we have an agent and that agent gets us jobs, it's considered a job. But it's also. It can be worked as a different kind of system for predators, and it's important that people are aware of that. And that's another reason why I'm speaking out, is because I really want all the young girls and boys. This is anybody, and not even if you're underage, if you're older as well, to understand what a predator is, what the signs are, and it's just very important.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

One of the things that has been so striking about the PSA campaign and also the press conference today was the holding of photos of a lot of the people who spoke of when they were. When they were approached by predators. I should say I stumbled over there because I wanted to say it in the right way. When you were young, you were in your teens?

[Charlene Richard]

Yes, I was in my early teens.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And you were modeling out there. And what, in your experience of what you were asked to do? I know that Epstein himself, of course, was a predator. Were you. Did you travel to the island?

[Charlene Richard]

Yes, I did. I was in New York, Miami, and.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

On the island, did you travel to Mar a Lago?

[Charlene Richard]

Yes, I did.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And how did you arrive at Mar a Lago? How did you end up going to Mar a Lago was he. Did he send you there? Were you told to go there? How did that happen?

[Charlene Richard]

There were a lot of model parties at the Mar A Lago. Different people would set them up, different magazines, and a limo would come and you'd jump in the limo and you'd go.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And Jeffrey Epstein or someone who worked for him would tell you to go there?

[Charlene Richard]

No, it was just a place where something was held, a party was held, and people would go to different events.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

This is about so much more than one person. Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell or Donald Trump. But because Donald Trump is a person who, of course, owns Mar A Lago, I just have to ask if you think he was aware of that arrangement?

[Charlene Richard]

I don't know if he was aware. Actually, I can't answer that. I'm sorry.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And you were in your teens. You were in your teens. And I think this is important for people to understand that people were in their teens and were young, and you were. You were a young model and you were handled by a predator. Let me ask you something else, because again, it's much bigger than a couple of people. Were you trafficked to other people?

[Charlene Richard]

What do I. Can I.

[Amanda Roberts]

You can say yes, but you don't have to name names.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

You only share what you want to share. You don't have to be sorry for anything. And I'm asking you this because I think it's important to understand, as people do understand about Virginia's story, that it's not about just one person or two people. It's much bigger than that. You can share whatever you want to share.

[Charlene Richard]

Terrible things had happened to me within my time with dealing with Jeffrey Epstein. I had encounters with people that I would rather not have.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

I understand we've talked about this before, why you don't want to share names. And I think people like sky and Amanda have educated all of us on the fear a lot of survivors have about litigation, about threats, about what can happen to your family. And Virginia, unfortunately, experienced a lot of that. I don't want to. Can you share more about why that's a fear that survivors have about sharing names or specifics? Because it is a question a lot of people have out there.

[Sky Roberts]

Yeah. It shouldn't fall on the survivor's shoulders. I think there's a lot of. A lot of people that just want them to release the names. They're like, well, you have the names. Just do it. The problem with that is that these rich and powerful men, a they can sue you into. Into homelessness would be a big part of it. But B, it puts serious threat on your life and your family's life. There were times where my sister was sitting across people and they would push a picture of her own children in front of her and essentially say, I know where your kids go to school. I mean, I alone had own threats.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

On me from Jeffrey Epstein threatening her who had, who had a lot of.

[Sky Roberts]

Money and a lot of power. And I think her memoir does a very good job of giving information without even having to say the names. If you do just a little bit of digging, you can figure out who these people are. But point being is there were still names up until the very end that she couldn't name because these people could. I mean, they still can come after these survivors, not just with litigation, but the fear of their life for their family and their friends and the people around them. They experience real threats.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And you have kids, and you have kids. I know you're not going to share the names and I think I wanted to make sure people understood why. Are these people when the list is released that people would know? Are they people who are famous in some capacity?

[Charlene Richard]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

And are there names out there that have not been out there yet?

[Charlene Richard]

Yes.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

That you were trafficked to.

[Charlene Richard]

There's names of people that are out there that are not on the list.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Okay, deep breath everybody. That was just the first part of my interview earlier with Charlene Richard, who is going public for the first time as a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, along with sky and Amanda Roberts, brother and sister in law of Virginia Giuffre. I'm gonna share with you more of that conversation and where it went next after a very quick break. Ah, DSW Earth, place of the humble brag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, they'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. At DSW stores [e-mail], let us surprise you.

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Now that this bill to release the Epstein files is headed to Donald Trump's desk and I would not have predicted that at the beginning of today there is an understandable sense of cautious optimism from many of Epstein's survivors and their loved ones. For people like sky and Amanda Roberts and for newly public survivor Shirley and Richard, there is also, there's definitely a moment of hope but also a real resolve for what comes next. Here's more of our conversation. Amanda, you have been standing right by Sky's side talking about Virginia, your beloved sister. Does today feel like it's a moment after fighting for so long of, of some element of progress?

[Amanda Roberts]

I think this journey is, is long and you get so little wins. And I say this every time because it's what gives you momentum for the next step. This is a marathon that we're running and we're running it together and that's what has been so powerful. But it gives us so much hope. It was a huge moment. For the very first time, that Vote yes was an acknowledgement for survivors that this did happen, that they are truth tellers, that we see them, that we believe them and that we're going to continue to fight with them and we're going to run this marathon together is what I felt happen today. And I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful because I believe the American people are believing and seeing and trusting in a way that they were never trusting survivors before and they're truly seeing them and see, seeing their stories. And it's making an impact.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

There's no question it's making an impact. I'VE been in this town a long time. Very few things make impacts. Human stories and humanity makes impacts. And we wouldn't be here without you two and without you sharing your story. Let me ask you, because you spoke so powerfully this morning about the long length of time you have been waiting and quietly waiting. And without the same universe of people that I think you've been building over the last couple of days, what has today meant to you so far?

[Charlene Richard]

Today means that we're actually being seen. It means that maybe transparency is possible, maybe justice will be served. Maybe all of the people that have been through this, not just Epstein survivors, but this is where for everybody, this is for America. This is not just for us. It's called the Epstein Transparency Files act because we started it, These guys helped start it. But this is for everybody.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

You two have came to this as loving siblings of your sister. And now you've become incredibly powerful advocates. And today's a hopeful day. But I think being clear eyed is so important in this moment, too. There was an investigation that the Trump administration announced last week. Do you have fear that they might use an ongoing investigation as an excuse not to release these files even if legislation is passed? I don't bring that up to be a Debbie Downer, but just for people out there to understand all of the battles ahead for all of you that have been advocating so hard.

[Amanda Roberts]

Yeah, I think that was an issue that we talked about today when we sat with various members of the House, the Democratic Women's Caucus. We sat down with them, and that was a fear that we expressed to them that potentially this could be another stone wall that could be thrown out at them. And I think what we asked of them is that don't give up. You need to join this fight with us when they do try to throw something against us again. Help us fight this. Help us with legislation. Help us figure out the pathways and maneuvers around these roadblocks that we keep hitting over and over again. And I think we all were determined in that room. And I mean, so many Representatives, Republican alike and Democratic, vowed to be a champion.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Republicans, too.

[Amanda Roberts]

Yes. Vowed to be champions for us, Vowed to find the routes and the way through for survivors. Because it is time and it's beyond time. And we are looking to Congress to be that vote for us, to be the voice to continue to push and to carry the weight. Carry the weight.

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What do you think Virginia would be thinking right now about today?

[Sky Roberts]

She did it.

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Mm.

[Sky Roberts]

She did it. She paved the way. She had a nag for pointing at people's faces and tell them, you were wrong, you were wrong, and I was telling the truth the entire time. It's truly vindication for her. I mean, today is a monumental day. It's acknowledgement for the survivors. It's acknowledgement to my sister that she was a truth teller this whole time. And without her, we wouldn't have this road. We wouldn't have this, this road that we can now go down and really have these conversations. It's just tragic that she's not with us to share it, but she is. We wear her here. A lot of survivors wear her butterfly because it's a piece of her. It's a piece of her with us at all times so that we can continue to carry her voice.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Charlene Rashard, sky and Amanda Roberts, thank you all for joining me today. I know it's been a long day and a powerful day for all of you. Thank you.

[Charlene Richard]

Thank you.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Thank you.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Coming up, this bill to release the Epstein files now heads to Donald Trump's desk for a signature. And let's just say I have a lot of questions about what comes next. You may, too, like how and when could the documents actually be released? What kind of pressure could Donald Trump put on the Justice Department to screw around with that process? And what are Democrats prepared to do about that? Congressman Robert Garcia is the ranking Democrat on the House Oversaker Committee. He has led the charge on this fight from the very beginning. And he joins me next. According to the text of the Epstein files Transparency act, which the House and Senate passed today, if Trump truly does sign the bill when it reaches his desk, which a senior White House official tells Ms. Now will happen tomorrow morning, Trump's Attorney general, Pam Bondi would then have 30 days from then to release searchable downloadable copies of all unclassified materials related to Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and any individuals, including government officials, named in connection to Epstein's illicit activities. But as with any legislation, the devil is always in the details. So here are some of the things that I want to know. How much information are we actually talking about here? 30 days from tomorrow, if Trump signs it tomorrow. And what are the different ways? I've talked about some of them, but you got to plan for this kind of stuff that Trump could try to wiggle out or his administration could try to wiggle out of actually releasing all that info? And do Democrats have a plan for how to make him comply if they can? If he does try any of the funny business? Luckily, I have just the person to ask. Joining me now is Congressman Robert Garcia, one of the co sponsors of the bill and the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, can you hear us? Okay, I hear you're having a little sound issue. You hear me? Okay. Okay, great. I know this has been a huge, historic day. I've talked about this throughout the show. I've been in this town a long time. Things like this do not happen with only one dissenting vote in Congress as it did today. And a big part of that is the push you and many others made. And as I started the show talking about the role of survivors, most importantly. So I have some kind of nitty gritty questions here because I think people are wondering what's next. The bill as it's written gives Trump's Attorney General, Pam Bondi, 30 days, as you well know, from when Trump signs a troop, release the information. So if he signs a bill tomorrow, as his team is saying he's going to do, logistically, how do you expect that will happen? Like, is it going to all get dumped on the DOJ website at some point or how will the information go out?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Well, I think that we can look to the original subpoena that we put in place as can be a model for what he might do. The reality first, as we all know, is that Donald Trump right now could release all the files. He could have released all the files yesterday, weeks ago, months ago, but he has tried and directed a massive cover up. What we expect will happen is that Donald Trump will likely, through Pam Bondi, release some of the files. But we know that there is an immense amount of documents, photos and videos. And he might choose to be very selective in what he actually sends a committee. And what he might send to the committee might already be in the public record beyond. The only disclosure that DOJ has already done was about 30,000 pages of already released public documents. And he might do that again or he might try to stall the whole thing through this new sham investigation that he's now launching.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Of course, this is so important and I want to ask you about this, and I've been trying not to be a Debbie Downer, but we all have to be clear eyed in this moment. But it sounds like what you're saying is that these documents, you expect them to come to the committee first before they're posted online. Is that what you expect in 30 days from tomorrow?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

I mean, I think what we expect in, in, in this next three days, that we're going to probably get something, but we think what we're probably going to get is not actually going to move the case forward. He's still going to have control over what goes out, what we actually get. And most importantly, everything that he has done in his actions has shown us that he actually is not interested in justice for the survivors or for the victims. He has proven to us that he's more interested in covering for powerful men and people that have harmed and abused survivors and girls than he is actually about any kind of justice for the survivors. And the other point that's really important is we need Republicans to stop covering for Donald Trump. I'm glad that some of them showed some courage today that needs to continue.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

I think this is a very important point. And then I just asked, I talked with, with some incredible survivors. You know them, sky and Amanda Roberts today about this and Charlene Richard, who's never been out talking publicly about this. And one of the things Amanda Roberts said was that when they met with people on the Hill today, many members, including Republicans, said they would stand by with them in this fight. Do you have confidence in that or do you think people who voted for this today could back off?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

I think there are some Republicans that are taking principled positions, which has been honestly heartening to see in this investigation. A vast majority still will do whatever Donald Trump wants them to do. And remember, even before Donald Trump had this flip flop, we were hoping that we might get 12, 20, 30 members to join us. A few days ago it looked like that number could increase and it was. It was only until Donald Trump gave them the okay that a majority of this caucus, including the speaker, had any sort of interest in telling that story for their survivors, in supporting their horrific tragedy that they've had to endure and actually trying to get them some justice. And so I don't have any confidence that we're going to have real partners. I'm hoping that we can put enough pressure and if the American public is prepared to continue to advocate for the survivors that Donald Trump will have to act. Because next up is the financial records, the bank records, the financial fraud. We need to get information from the CEOs of these banks where Jeffrey Epstein did business. There is a lot of this investigation to go and the American public should know that. We are just getting started.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

We were going to talk about that. We have to take a quick break. That's how this works, as you know. But we're going to take talk about that because you also issued subpoenas to these financial institutions today. Lots of news. We'll talk about after a quick break. House Speaker Mike Johnson today showed everyone Today, just how little power and influence he really has. I mean, after weeks of trying to stop the release of the Epstein files, Mike Johnson began the day by reversing course and announcing that he would vote yes on the bill to force Trump's dodh release all those files. And while Johnson voted with all Democrats and all but one Republican in favor of the bill, he did so while urging the Senate to amend it. And so I'm very confident that when this moves forward in the process, if and when it is processed in the Senate, which is no certainty, that that will be, that they will take the time methodically to do what we have.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Not been allowed to do in the.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

House, to amend this discharge petition and to make sure that these protections are there.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

The authors of the discharge did not allow us to do that here.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

That's the rules here. But in the Senate, they can correct it. He urged the Senate to amend the bill. He pleaded with the Senate to amend the bill. You just heard him do that. And then the Senate sends it right on through, completely unchanged. Little powerless there. Oh, Mike Johnson. Okay, we're back with Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. Okay, I just want to ask you for what you're preparing for, because you're always preparing for things. And in this bill, it explicitly allows redactions that completely make sense. Right. Child sex abuse, materials, victim information. It also allows for redactions that would jeopardize federal investigations. This is sort of what you touched on before with these investigations that they announced last week. And it allows for redactions for classified information. Are you preparing for them to abuse that? That's what it sounds like for them to pull many things out and say they are in those classifications and they are not really. And how do you check that and know.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

What'S clear for me is that Donald Trump, from day one, has not wanted to release these files. That was true yesterday and it's true today, regardless of his public position. So, absolutely, we should be prepared to understand that the DOJ is still going to continue to take their orders directly from the President and his desire to keep much of this information hidden from the public, that we should be very clear right about what does that mean for us? We have to watch this investigation that the DOJ is launching into apparently political enemies of the president, Democrats that he wants to target, that he feels are in the files that he wants the DOJ to go after. That investigation, we believe is going to be used as a way for the DOJ to then keep important information and documents from the American public, the Congress, and our committee. And so we understand that, which is why we are focused not just on the doj, but on other organizations like the Epstein Estate. The Epstein Estate is working with us to get us additional documents. And more are coming that will move our investigation forward. We're also, and we know that there are hundreds of FBI and law enforcement agents that have worked to put these files together. We're interviewing survivors every single day and getting and collecting their story. We're demanding other people come and meet with us at the committee. And there are folks from across the country that are contacting us that have important information that we are listening, sitting down and hearing their story. This is a promise that we're making to the American public. We are going to get to the truth. It becomes more clear every day. And whether Donald Trump wants it or not, we're going to get all of.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Those files released to that point. I mean, you announced subpoenas to financial institutions today connected to Epstein. And it is, the money is always a key part here. Who is being paid? And this could be a whole web of people. Who knows? What are you looking to find in that through those subpoenas? And when do you expect to hear back?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

So we have been pushing Chairman Comer for months to actually get the subpoena out the door. He had committed to me, both publicly and privately, that they would get a subpoena out to the bank. So when we have been waiting and waiting, and finally tonight, again thanks to pressure from the committee and the actions happening in Congress, Chairman Comer put out a subpoena on two of the banks. So JP Morgan Chase as well as Deutsche Bank. Now, that is an incredible important first step. There are actually over a dozen additional banks that we need information from. So we've asked Comer to also include those banks. But these banks and this financial information is critical in understanding who was paying Jeffrey Epstein, who Jeffrey Epstein was paying, and what powerful men were essentially money laundering through Epstein in this enormous trafficking ring. So these financial documents are critical to the investigation. And our work on these bank records are just beginning. And so we have made great progress. And in the weeks and months ahead, you're going to be hearing a lot about the massive amount of money that was used and given to Epstein for all of these horrific crimes.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

Do you have a sense of when you're going to hear back from the Epstein estate? I know we've talked before and you just said you're going to get another trove of documents from them.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

So we, we're in contact with the Epstein estate pretty regularly. So we don't know when we're going to get the next group of documents from them. But we do know that there's more documents on their way. And so that as soon as we get the documents, we will ensure that we get those out to the public because we know that Republicans refuse to release anything until we release them first and force our hands. So that's something that we plan on doing as soon as we get documents, anything and any document that we get, we want to make public to the American people.

[Host/Interviewer (likely a journalist or news anchor)]

I think such an encouraging thing for so many people out there to hear. Congressman Robert Garcia, I know you've been working so tirelessly on this. It matters who the ranking member is on committees. I'm just going to remind people of that. Thank you so much for being here and for everything you've done on this to date. Coming up, this vote on the Epstein files today was not the only huge defeat Donald Trump was dealt today. Quite a day. The other one happened in Texas. I'm going to tell you about it after a very quick break. Before we go, we have one giant development in the fight over redistricting to tell you about because the federal court today said no to the new gerrymandered Republican map in Texas. And it's a major blow to Trump's efforts to stack the deck for the GOP in the 2026 midterms. A three judge panel found the maps discriminated on racial lines against black and Latino voters. And it was a appointed judge who wrote the ruling that strikes down the map. Trump appointee Judge Jeffrey Brown wrote, quote, the public perception of this case is that it's about politics. To be sure, politics played a role in drawing the 2025 map, but it was much about much more than just politics. Substantial evidence shows that Texas racially gerrymandered the 2025 map. That's pretty clear. An appeal heads directly to the Supreme Court and will have to move quickly as the candidate filing deadline for Texas 2026 elections is coming up next December 8th, which is less than three weeks away. But this fight, which Trump and Republicans started for sure, does not appear to be working out exactly how they planned. Last week, a court in Utah required the state to adopt a map that adds one safe Democratic seat. And in Indiana today, Republicans voted to adjourn the state House through the end of the year, passing on the opportunity despite pressure from the White House to hold a special session to consider redistricting. That is a lot, not what they predicted. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Come to DSW for the shoes. Stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead. Try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you. You know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] Let us surprise you.