Finally sworn in, Grijalva slams Johnson's 'abuse of power' for obstructing her

Summary

The Briefing with Jen Psaki — Episode Summary

Episode: Finally Sworn In, Grijalva Slams Johnson's 'Abuse of Power' for Obstructing Her
Date: November 13, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MSNBC)
Notable Guests: Congressman Robert Garcia, Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, Epstein survivor Jess Michaels

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Overview

This high-stakes episode explores two dominating stories:

• The release of a trove of Jeffrey Epstein files potentially implicating Donald Trump and other powerful men in previously concealed activities.
• The political drama surrounding the belated swearing-in of Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, whose presence as the 218th signer forced a crucial vote on releasing the Epstein files.

Jen Psaki’s discussion weaves together political obstruction, survivor advocacy, and the pursuit of accountability, highlighting what could be “the greatest political scandal of our lifetimes.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Epstein Files Bombshell

• Massive Release of Documents:

  • 23,000 documents from the Epstein estate, released by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, suggest deep Trump-Epstein ties.
  • New emails imply Trump had extensive knowledge of and contact with Epstein and his activities, contradicting his public denials.
  • "As Epstein said of Trump in 2019, ‘Of course he knew about the girls. Of course he knew.’" – Jen Psaki [06:09]

• Obstruction from the Trump White House:

  • The Trump administration (with Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel) aggressively pressured GOP members to block the files’ release, even holding an extraordinary Situation Room meeting.
  • Despite these efforts, the necessary 218th Congressional signature was secured, triggering a mandatory House vote.

• Notable Emails and Implications:

  • Emails reference Trump’s presence at Epstein’s house with a victim and cryptic discussions between Epstein and Maxwell.
  • Epstein, in a 2018 conversation on the Stormy Daniels hush money, writes: “I know how dirty Donald is.” [08:25]
  • Suggests possible continued Trump-Epstein contact after 2016.

"Every new revelation in this story seems more damning than the last." – Jen Psaki [08:56]

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2. Congressman Robert Garcia: The Oversight Committee’s Fight

• Garcia’s Perspective:

  • Emphasizes the public’s right to know and the urgency of overcoming both administrative and partisan cover-ups.
  • Notes the Democrats’ initiative in subpoenaing documents from the Epstein estate after Republican reluctance.
  • "There is no question by Donald Trump's actions today that he has become obsessed with hiding the Epstein files." — Robert Garcia [09:47]

• Investigative Challenges:

  • The team is still combing through vast quantities of emails, with more expected.
  • Garcia underlines that the most damning materials remain with the DOJ, including potential photos and videos. [18:23]
  • Michael Wolff, journalist with extensive Epstein audio interviews, may be subpoenaed for further information.

"There are powerful men right now walking free that have raped girls and that there's no consequences." — Robert Garcia [18:54]

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3. Adelita Grijalva’s Swearing-In: Obstruction and Breaking the Deadlock

• A 50-Day Delay:

  • Speaker Mike Johnson withheld Grijalva’s swearing-in for 50 days, preventing her from serving her constituents and influencing proceedings.
  • Grijalva decried this as an “abuse of power,” calling for institutional reforms:

  "One individual should not be able to unilaterally obstruct the swearing in of a duly elected member of Congress for political reasons." — Grijalva, House Floor [24:39]

• Her First Act:

  • Signing the discharge petition, she enabled the House to force a vote on releasing the Epstein files.
  • Grijalva speaks candidly of the personal impact of the obstruction and her intent to legislate against such abuses if Democrats regain power. [28:23]

• Bipartisan Rumblings:

  • She and Garcia note increasing Republican willingness—even under Trump admin pressure—to support transparency and survivor justice. [29:41]

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4. Survivor Voices: Jess Michaels’ Perspective

• Emotional Resonance of the Day:

  • Jess Michaels, present during the historic House floor events, describes the immense relief and hope for accountability:

  "Even small needle move towards justice and being heard...it was very emotional. It is a moment in time that will last for me for my lifetime." — Jess Michaels [31:45]

• Call for Broad Accountability:

  • Emphasizes the need to pursue all predators, not just Trump or Epstein:

  "It is so much bigger than Donald Trump. And we hope that everyone keeps their eye on that as opposed to just narrowing it down to one person, because that's where we've failed in the past." — Jess Michaels [33:36]

• Rejecting “Credibility” Obfuscation:

  • Criticizes official rhetoric suggesting only “credible” information would be released, countering with the vast evidence survivors and investigators already possess. [34:42]
  • Urges ongoing public pressure:

  "We need everyone on phones, on emails, and to not stop ... because justice and accountability are what is most important." [37:30]

  • Defines the moral clarity:

  "You are either protecting pedophiles or children and victims. There's no gray line." [36:34]

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5. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt’s Non-Answers

• Stonewalling on Direct Questions:
  • When pressed on Trump’s presence at Epstein’s house and the files’ full release, Levitt dodged, recycled debunked talking points, and repeatedly conflated transparency with damage control. [39:52—42:18]
  • Jen Psaki fact-checks these deflections on-air, directly juxtaposing them with the actual evidence released.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jen Psaki [05:58]:
  “This really is shaping up to be—the greatest political scandal of our lifetimes.”
• Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva [24:39]:
  “This is an abuse of power. One individual should not be able to unilaterally obstruct the swearing in of a duly elected member of Congress for political reasons.”
• Jess Michaels [33:36]:
  “It is so much bigger than Donald Trump … that's where we've failed in the past.”
• Robert Garcia [18:54]:
  “There are powerful men right now walking free that have raped girls and that there's no consequences.”
• Jess Michaels [36:34]:
  “You are either protecting pedophiles or children and victims. There's no gray line.”

---

Important Timestamps

• [05:58] – Outline of the Trump administration’s intensive pushback and the dramatic Situation Room meeting
• [06:09]—[08:56] – Reading of damning excerpts from Epstein emails implicating Trump
• [09:16]—[15:16] – Interview with Congressman Robert Garcia on the Oversight Committee’s work
• [24:39] – Grijalva’s first floor speech calling out Speaker Johnson’s obstruction
• [31:45] – Jess Michaels describes the day as a survivor
• [33:36] – Jess Michaels emphasizes the importance of pursuing all perpetrators, not just Trump
• [39:52—41:31] – White House press secretary Caroline Levitt’s evasive responses to media questions on the scandal
• [42:29] – Psaki’s analysis of the White House’s behavior as self-preservation, not transparency

---

Conclusion

This episode centers on unprecedented government transparency efforts against a backdrop of obstruction and denial at the highest levels of power. The swearing-in of Adelita Grijalva catalyzes action, while survivors like Jess Michaels re-center the conversation on justice for victims above political gamesmanship. The trove of Epstein emails—released despite intense White House resistance—appear to implicate multiple high-profile individuals, with promises of further investigation and accountability echoing throughout the episode.

Final takeaways:

• The coming House vote on the Epstein files is historic, with growing bipartisan support likely.
• Survivors and advocates are pushing for structural reforms to prevent political manipulation in Congress and ensure full accountability for all involved in Epstein's crimes.
• The White House’s ongoing lack of transparency, despite mounting evidence, intensifies public demand for justice.

Transcript

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It is a huge, I mean, enormous news night. The House just passed the bill, of course, to reopen the government, ending the shutdown, which is of course a big story tonight. We also have a huge developing story that I think is shaping up to be the greatest political scandal of our lifetime. It very well could be all stemming from Donald Trump's relationship with notorious child sex predator Jeffrey Epstein. And we have an enormous lineup of guests on this topic tonight, people who are right in the center of this. Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee. I just mentioned this to Chris, who blew this whole story wide open, will join me here in just a second to talk about all of this. And here tonight is also newly sworn in Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, who just became the pivotal 218th signature to force a vote on the release of the Epstein files on the House floor. We one of her guests for that swearing in that just happened earlier this afternoon was Epstein survivor and advocate Jess Michaels, who has been tirelessly calling for the release of the Epstein files. And she's also going to join me to talk about what we've just learned today, which was a lot, and what she wants to see happen next because that's such an important part of this conversation and story right now. But I'm going to say it again. This really is shaping up that to be it could be the greatest political scandal of our life's time. And the reason I know that in part is because of the relentless pressure campaign the Trump White House waged Today to stop more information from coming out. It is quite telling. First of all, let's remember this is the same president who regularly admits he knows nothing about whatever issue is embroiling his administration at any given time. And this is the same president who spent the last few weeks refusing to lift a finger at all in the negotiations to end the government shutdown, something most presidents are deeply involved in. He did make some time, though, to get some shut eye during a public event in the Oval Office. So we'll give him that. But when it comes to the release of the Epstein files, it is seems to be all hands on deck over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The guy who has been very disengaged as of late has had a Diet Coke or 10, and he is ready to go out there and basically protect himself, it seems. I mean, this morning the White House went to great lengths to pressure Republican members of Congress who had signed onto the effort to release the Epstein files. According to multiple outlets, Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel, quite a pair, even held a meeting in the Situation Room with Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, who is one of the Republicans who supportshis supported releasing the files, who supported the discharge petition. Now, just as a side note, meetings with members of Congress about anything but classified national security information or kind of a foreign trip are rarely, if ever held inside THE Situation Room. The dramatic backdrop here was maybe the point now. But despite the effort to make this all feel, I guess, like voting for the discharge petition was some sort of national security issue threatening the Trump administration, it didn't work. The Trump administration was not able to convince any of the Republicans. They tried to pressure campaign, which tried to pressure with their campaign to defect before Adelita Grijalva became the 218th signature on the petition to vote on releasing the Epstein files. And what that means is this. That means that the House is now on track to vote on releasing the full Epstein files. And Speaker Mike Johnson also said this afternoon, this evening actually, that the vote could take place next week. And given the effort Trump has already expended though, to keep these files from getting out, given how engaged an otherwise fairly disengaged president seems to be in preventing even the discharge petition from moving forward in the House, begs the question, what else is in these files? Because for starters, they're the new emails that call into question this claim. With regard to deputy evidence. Did you have anything to say, Donald Edmonds?

No, I had no idea.

Yes, that was in case you couldn't hear over the sound There, that was Donald Trump not too long ago, claiming he had no idea that his one time best friend was a notorious pedophile. No idea at all. Of course, even back then, his denial was pretty hard to believe. But now we have the receipts. As Epstein said of Trump in 2019, quote, of course he knew about the girls. Of course he knew. That's just one of the emails in a massive trove of 23,000 documents obtained from the Epstein estate and released today by Democrats on the House Oversight Committee. And while MSNBC has not independently confirmed the authenticity of those emails or the allegations, several of them suggest that Trump may have known a whole lot more than he let on. Like, a whole lot. For instance, in Another email from 2019, Epstein talks about the prior investigation and charges against him before saying, redacted name, worked at Mar A Lago. Trump knew of it and came to my house many times during that period. The testimony of the houseman, John Alessi confirmed it. He never got a massage. Now, putting aside whether or not Trump got a massage himself, the suggestion that Trump knew of it certainly raises a whole lot of questions. Then there's a 2011 email from Epstein to his co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell, in which Epstein writes, quote, I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Victim's name is redacted here. Spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Glenn Maxwell replies, I've been thinking about that. Now, despite it sounding a whole lot like a Sherlock Holmes reference, we don't know exactly what Trump being the dog that hasn't barked means, but. But it also references a victim spending hours at Epstein's house with him. And that alone is huge news. And so are the numerous other emails giving us new insight into Epstein's thinking about Trump. There's a 2018 conversation about the hush money paid to Stormy Daniels on Trump's behalf in which Epstein said, quote, I know how dirty Donald is. That's quite a statement. Then there's this meme shared with Epstein by his brother in 2016 with the caption, would you trust this man with your daughter? There's also an email suggesting that Epstein may have still been in contact with Trump even after Trump was elected in 2016. Just a week after that election, Epstein is asked where he is and he replies, trump Tower. Then there's some exchanges that, in a trove of very creepy emails, stand out as being particularly creepy and gross. Like a 2015 email in which Epstein references, quote, My 20 year old girlfriend in 93 that after two years, I gave to Donald. Gave? What does gave mean? In that same exchange, he also says, would you like to see photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen? Now, I should be clear, this is a huge and enormous trove of emails. And understandably, some are vague, some are kind of cryptic, and many are lacking full context and detail. So it's going to take time for committee members and their teams and journalists and people out there to sort through them and make complete sense of all of this. Of course, Donald Trump has long denied any wrongdoing in connection with Jeffrey Epstein's crime crimes. But it has never been more clear, and this was my takeaway from today than it is today, why Trump may not want these files to be released. Listen to all the ones I just read you. That's just a sample of them. And these are also just the latest details we are getting from the Epstein estate, which has already turned over the infamous birthday book and other records. Every new revelation in this story seems more damning than the last. So where does this go next? And just what exactly is the Trump White House still trying to keep from coming out? Joining us now is California Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee and the guy who blew this whole story wide open. What a day. And there is so much to dig into here. I just want to start. I just highlighted some of what was released by the committee today. I know there was a lot released. Is there anything that I missed there? Anything you really want to highlight that's important for people to understand, understand here?

Look, I think you obviously referenced some really important information and some of the emails and communications that we thought were also important and those that really raise additional questions. The reality is that we received this batch of emails from the Epstein estate just a few days ago, as did the Republicans on the same day. We knew that Republicans would not want to release these emails. And so we again, use our lawyers, we redacted names and we put some of these emails out. We regardless, because the public have a right to know what the connections are between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. I think Donald Trump saying or Donald Trump being mentioned with Jeffrey Epstein talking about spending hours with one of the victims or Donald Trump being again mentioned in another email by Jeffrey Epstein about knowing about the girls. I mean, these are, I think, serious questions. And I think for us, it builds on our case. And we have to once again go back to the key question in all of this is what is the White House hiding? Why this White House cover up. There is no question by Donald Trump's actions today that he has become obsessed with hiding the Epstein files. And we're going to work every single day to get them out, release them and bring justice for the survivors.

It's very clear, it's been clear for some time. But to your point, I mean, seeing these emails and the trove of the ones I just read make very clear why he doesn't want them released to me and I think to a lot of people watching. I know your staff just got these last week and you did a lot of work through the lawyers and others to redact where necessary. Have you been able to really. It's a very short period of time. Has your team been really able to comb through everything in there to fully understand the context and fully understand all of the pieces in there, or do you even need more time to do that?

We're still going through these emails. I mean, we obviously have been through a significant chunk of them and have pulled out information that we thought was relevant to the case and important. But as you know, now that all the emails are being released, we have the media, we have other organizations, we have folks that are engaged in this case that are now also pulling out new information. So we're, all of us are committed to going through every single document and getting it released to the public. And folks should know that these are emails from the Epstein estate. This is not even the Department of Justice. Why has the Department of Justice not essentially released all the files to the Oversight Committee, which we demanded through a subpoena? And the fact that we've had to fight and get these documents from the estate, which we've done honestly, because Republicans have failed to call for this release, we've had to go to other organizations. That is what I think is really both interesting and concerning is that we have a situation right now where the White House is now involved in this cover up.

This is such an important piece and I want to get there. And you're so gracious to stay with me for a bit because I have so many questions. Ok, so you released an email today that Jeffrey Epstein sent to Ghislaine Maxwell in 2020. This is one of the ones I referenced. And in the email, Epstein refers to Trump as the dog that hasn't barked. As I said, we don't, we know it's kind of Sherlock Holmes, but we don't exactly know the reference. It says that a victim of Epstein spent hours at Epstein's house with Trump. Let me, I think I know the answer to this, but why did you choose that one to highlight as one you released this morning?

Well, I think Donald Trump has denied any knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein and his sex trafficking ring and the pedophilia and the rape and abuse of women. And I think if you look at his denial, for example, of the birthday note, which he said didn't exist until we released it ourselves and proved it to be true, clearly Donald Trump is lying. Clearly he's hiding something. And for him to spend hours with a victim that is being discussed between Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, I think is just, it's concerning. And this idea that Donald Trump is trying to now kind of rewrite history, that he wasn't aware that Jeffrey Epstein and him weren't close when Jeffrey Epstein himself said that they were best friends. We know. I've had a survivor tell me directly that Jeffrey Epstein had a photo of him and Donald Trump on his desk every time she went into that house. These were two men that clearly were close. And the President wants to say that he had no idea what was happening. I think this email leads us in a direction and all signs point back to the White House.

One of the things that was also striking, I mean, Ghislaine Maxwell has been in the news lately too, because of her reportedly a request for a commutation and she's playing with dogs in a low security prison, which is just completely outrageous. But sheep Epstein, according to this email, told Maxwell all the way back in 2011 that Trump had spent hours at the house with a victim. We saw that email. Clearly she knew that. I'm sure there was more emails or there's more evidence of that, I would guess. Now, when Trump's former personal attorney turned deputy Attorney general, I should say Todd Blanche interviewed Maxwell in July. Maxwell claimed they weren't close and said explicitly she didn't recall ever seeing Trump at Epstein's house. Maybe she never physically saw him there. But that seems. I mean, what do you make of all of that?

Look, I think this completely sheds light on Ghislaine Maxwell and her lies and her mission to give her get herself a partner, a commutation, which she's telling Todd Blanche, I remind the public, was Donald Trump's former personal lawyer, like five minutes ago. Right. Former personal lawyer who becomes deputy Attorney General. Todd Blanche goes to see Ghislaine Maxwell, gives her this incredible move out of her facility to this Club Fed facility where she's walking around animals, access to meetings, apparently having secret meetings with folks that we have no idea who they are and Ghislaine Maxwell then in that interview with Todd Blanche, that one on one interview is claiming that she didn't know anything about Donald Trump, that she was not aware of what he did or who he knew or at the house. And yet we see in this email and quite frankly in this large batch of documents that it appears she absolutely knew about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein's relationship. And so I think that again sheds more light on this investigation and points us back to why the White House is covering this up.

No question about it. I have so many more questions. There's more emails to ask you about. There's the 218th vote on the discharge petition. Sit where you are. We'll be right back. We just have a 90 second place break.

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[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

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[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

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We're back with Congressman Robert Garcia, the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee whose relentless work produced what we learned today about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. Which is a lot. I mean we're going to learn, I think a lot for the days and weeks to come, even from this trove. So let me ask you about another one of the emails you highlighted today. In another one of these emails, journalist Michael Wolfson seem to suggest to Epstein that he could use information he has against Trump if he wanted to. Michael Wolff is Just is a bit of a character. And in the course of writing kind of multiple tell all books about Trump, he's made a lot of assertions that we haven't confirmed ourselves, I should say. But Wolf has also publicly claimed to have nearly 100 hours of audio interviews with Epstein. I know you're not done here. Is that information that you're going to ask him for or even subpoena if needed?

We're gonna subpoena whoever we need to subpoena and get whatever information we need, including Michael Wolfe? Whoever, whatever it takes. Now, we wanna obviously co op. We wanna have a good relationship with Michael Wolf. We have, there's been some communication between our teams and so we're hopeful that Mr. Wolfe will work with us on getting information that is important to the investigation. And we're hopeful that Michael Wolfe wants what we want, which is justice for the women and the survivors.

Have you guys, has your team asked him for these audio?

There has definitely been communication between the teams.

Okay, that's a maybe. That's a maybe, yes. Let me ask you, I mean, this is again, so much information to go through. Is there more that the estate has that we don't even have access to?

Yes. And I think what people need to realize is we only have these documents from the estate because Democrats worked and fought and were scrappers on getting this information. And we pushed on the subpoena to get the Epstein estate to bring us these documents. We know that what we have so far is a good chunk of Epstein documents, but there is a lot more the Epstein estate has to give us, and we're aware of that. But I want to remind folks that this pales in comparison to what the Department of Justice has. They have files, they have photographs, they have possibly videos. They have the information that we need to actually bring justice to the survivors and to implicate the men, the wealthy and powerful men that abused and raped children and women. And let's not forget that at the end of the day, this is not just about Donald Trump. We want to know the truth there. But there are powerful men right now walking free that have raped girls and that there's no consequences. And it is outrageous that Donald Trump is hiding this, hiding the facts, that the Department of Justice is hiding the facts and that Mike Johnson and Republicans are complicit in supporting what Donald Trump is doing.

You're talking about the other predators out there in addition to Trump. I mean, I'm not saying he is. We don't know all the details about that. I just Mean, in addition to what we've learned about Epstein and others, there's other predators out there. There are.

And we have to remember that Alex Acosta, when he ran his investigation out of Florida, that his line prosecutor and his team told him, we can go after other men. Here they are. Here's the evidence to go after possibly 20 additional co conspirators. And Alex Acosta looked at the information and said, we're not going to do that.

We're Talking about the 20 co conspirators that the Trump administration has the ability to release information. So let's talk about a big development, another big development today, which is of course, Adelita Grijalva being sworn in. She's the 218th vote. In addition to that, you had Kevin Kiley, who said before that he is open to supporting the discharge petition. I don't know if you count him as a yes vote or not or where he counts. Don Bacon also came out today and said he would. Before that, Mike Johnson has said this vote will be next week. Help us understand sort of the process from here. And also, do you expect more Republicans to come out?

I do. And I've talked to some Republicans that I think are prepared to vote yes. This is probably coming to a vote next week. I have to commend the Republicans that have the courage, while I may not agree with them on policy, they have the courage to stand up to Donald Trump. After immense pressure today to be called to the White House to have phone calls directly from the president. And they stood tall, they kept their names of that petition. Now that petition will go to a vote likely next week. I think it will pass with a significant amount of Republicans.

Many more Republicans than we know of now.

Yeah, many more. They are, unless they a dozen, dozens. I think it could be significant. I think it could be significant. And then from there, then this bill then of course goes to the Senate. And the Senate's gonna have to make a choice and be on record if they believe in transparency, if they're going to support survivors of rape and trafficking, or if they're going to hide this cover up that Donald Trump is leading at the White House.

And this is an important piece because of all the work that's happened in the House. There's nothing that compels requires Senate Majority Leader John Thune to put this up for a vote in the Senate. He would have to act to put this up for a vote. So there needs to be pressure on the Senate to do that. Have you been in touch with Senate Democrats about that pressure and what happens from here.

I have had some conversations with Senate Democrats, and I think what people need to remember is that there's two subpoena tracks. The committee, the oversight Democrats. We have a subpoena in place and we need those files to come to our committee. We're going to get those files regardless. They have to produce those. Then there's this additional subpoena that will go to the whole Congress and to the public and put everybody on record. Both are important. And we think today we made immense progress on both those tracks.

Congressman ROBERT Garcia, we covered a lot of ground there, but I feel like we're going to be learning more and more and more about this. Thank you for your tireless work and also for being here and helping us kind of make sense of all this information we're going through tonight. All right. Up next, she won a special election to Congress. We just talked about her 50 days ago. 50 days ago. But Speaker Mike Johnson would not let her get to work until today. And her first order of business was to take action to release the Epstein files. Newly sworn in, Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva of Arizona joins me live here next.

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[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous.

[Host/Anchor]

Okay, that's it.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

I'm taking you home with me.

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50 days that is not normal. After Arizona voters chose her to represent them, Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva was finally allowed to take the oath of office in the well of the House today. And during those remarks she said she had a lot of things that were very passionate. She. She also called out the man who had refused to swear her in, House Speaker Mike Johnson.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

This is an abuse of power. One individual should not be able to unilaterally obstruct the swearing in of a duly elected member of Congress for political reasons. It's past time for Congress to restore its role as a check and balance on this administration and fight for we the American people. That's what the American people expect us to do, fight for them. That is why I will sign the discharge petition right now to release the Epstein files.

[Host/Anchor]

She then did exactly what she just said. She signed the discharge petition and that now forces the House to vote to direct the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. Speaker Mike Johnson said tonight that the vote will happen next week. Joining us now is Congresswoman even though I called her that the last time she was on, just because Adelita Grijalva, Democrat, finally representing Arizona's 7th congressional district. Well, first of all, congratulations. This is strange circumstances, but it is a moment to celebrate. You worked very hard to get here. Let me start by asking you. I mean, after he refused to swear heatwin for 50 days, today was kind of the day where you stood side by side with Speaker Mike Johnson. You were a professional. But what was that like and was it any different from what you thought it would be?

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

You know, he said this was nothing personal. I said it sure did feel personal when you were making comments directed specifically to me. And let's just clear it up. I was not able to do my job and if you ever want to know why, I'll tell you the blow by blow details. But now today is the first day that we can actually go and lease office space and open up constituent services. And that is what I was elected to do. And so I'm very excited about that. It was a full range of emotions today. And honestly I feel very glad that I was able to get out publicly everything that many people have been toiling around, including myself about the situation that we've been put in for the last 50 days.

[Host/Anchor]

I watched your whole set of remarks. I think a lot of people did. You were feeling all the things, things you had a moment about your dad, which was Very sweet. You talked about your district. You also talked about, I know releasing Epstein files wasn't your signature issue you ran on, but you did talk about that and you talked about the importance of one man, as I just played, not being able to prevent someone from being sworn in. Why did you decide that was important to say when you were on the House floor?

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

I think it's so much about what is going on with this administration. And the obstruction of me getting sworn in has highlighted the corruption, has highlighted the COVID ups, have highlighted the cracks. And what we need to do as American people, as elected people in these positions is call it out as often as we can. And what people want to see me doing specifically, and really Democrats in general is fight for us. Don't just fight. Don't just throw mud for nothing. Stand up and do something for working people. And that's where I feel Democrats have been moving in the right directions. We saw some amazing wins with really progressive members that are speaking that specific truth, like how are we helping people?

[Host/Anchor]

You are going to do lots of things and talk about a lot of issues for your district. I know it's possible. And you've talked about this. You've really been the most public victim of this. That Republicans could deny swearing in members in the future. And that is a thing that's important to be eyes wide open about. What do you want to see happen or what would you do or what would you advocate for doing if the Democrats regain power? To prevent that from happening in the.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Future, we need to pass legislation on a bipartisan basis to ensure that no duly elected member ever goes through this again. It's like the next available pro forma legislative session, that person is sworn in regardless of party because this is never going to be okay. And what the precedent that Johnson has set, 50 days before it was 35 days before that it was 20. What is it going to be next time months where you just sit in limbo and are not able to do your job? And you know people that elect us to these positions, they did their job, they voted for us. And when they come up to me and say, I need help, try to explain to this woman that needs help with her VA benefits that like, I know you did your part, but I still can't help you.

[Host/Anchor]

Yeah.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

That is the most heartbreaking, frustrating, infuriating thing that no one should ever have to go through again.

[Host/Anchor]

I know you've been officially in Congress for less than 24 hours, but I feel like you've become a symbol for a lot of people And I was just talking with Congressman Garcia about this, about the Republicans who have come out and said they will support the discharge petition, the ones who are saying that privately behind the scenes, are you here? Are you hearing rumblings of that too in the hallways or as you're talking to people in Congress?

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Well, today's the first day that anyone was there. I mean, it was the first time that I've come and I'm like, oh, is this what it looks like when everyone's here? Because it was really has been just you can see the tumbling, the tumbleweeds running through the halls. So I'm very, I do think that people are more open. I was happy to see that the two representatives, Republican representatives from Arizona's delegation were there as well. I think that that's an important sign that there are some things that were wrong about this situation. And when people can come up to me in the streets and say, I'm a Republican, I've never, ever voted for you, I didn't vote for you. But what they're doing to you is wrong, just blatantly wrong. And it makes me wonder what else are they wrong about? And that's what I think.

[Host/Anchor]

We saw a lot of things today that I hope anyone from any party should have come questions about staying right where you are. Thank you for being so generous with your time after a long day because when we come back, someone who was present during your very first speech on the House floor today joins the table. She happens to be a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein and we'll get her take on the revived effort to release the Epstein files. We'll be right back. Today, during her first floor speech as a sworn in member of the House of Representatives, Congresswoman Adelisa Grijalva took the time to recognize two survivors of Jeffrey Epstein sitting in the gallery, Liz Stein and Jessica Michaels, who were met with a big round of applause. Well deserved. With me still is Arizona Democratic Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva, sworn in less than 24 hours ago. I hope the name sounds good to you, as well as Jess Michaels, one of the Epstein survivors who was present in the House gallery and mentioned during Congresswoman Grijalva's first floor speech and has been working tirelessly to help educate the public. I'm so grateful you're here. Thank you so much for staying with me. Let me start with you, Jess. There was just a lot happened today. You were on the House floor when this congresswoman was sworn in. There was a huge trove of emails released. There was the 218th vote. Tell me about how you're digesting all of today.

[Jess Michaels]

I'm not really digesting at all, actually. I mean, that's part of the, you know, the stress of it all, the excitement of it all, the even small needle move towards justice and being heard and being acknowledged that this should not be delayed anymore. We should be pushing through, releasing the files. So it was very emotional. It is a moment in time that will last for me for my lifetime, watching her sign that dispatch petition.

[Host/Anchor]

And let me ask you, what was it like having Jess there in the room?

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

She represents so much strength. I mean, think about having to tell a story of one of the most difficult periods of your life over and over and over again so people actually hear you to put a face with the story. It's not just a story. It's like a life that has been forever impacted by somebody who chose to abuse children and women. And so her strength to just stand up. And I was so glad that she got. They both got a standing ovation because it was that powerful, that it's like. And here they are. And I just think it's so important for people to be able to put a face to, like, this is not just a random story. This is a real person who's been impacted forever.

[Host/Anchor]

And it's really what it is all about. And I can't underscore how hard it is to do what you do and to be out there as you are. It's incredibly courageous. Let me ask you just about. I don't even know what you've had time to consume today. There have been a huge trove of emails today that have been released. I don't know what you've consumed. If anything surprises you that you've seen out there, reported about Trump being at the House aboutthere are a range of things. Anything you've seen that surprised you today?

[Jess Michaels]

Nothing surprised me. And I do believe the most important thing that all of us as survivors are really trying to get across is that it is so much bigger than Donald Trump. And we hope that everyone keeps their eye on that as opposed to just narrowing it down to one person, because that's where we've failed in the past. It was just Ghislaine Maxwell. It was just Jeffrey Epstein, and that's where we lost so much time and. And where we lost so much justice. So it is bigger than Donald Trump. So the surprises, I think, are still going to come.

[Host/Anchor]

This is such a. Congressman Garcia raises the exact same point about just the number of predators who are being covered up right now because of all of this. Let me ask you about just the role. There was a huge effort to prevent more information from coming out from the White House, from Cash Patel, from the attorney General, and they kept using this phrasing credibility, like credible information. Only credible information will be put out. It sounds good. It feels to me like a whole lot of gaslighting. What did you make of it?

[Jess Michaels]

I thought it was interesting to use the word credible when we have three terabytes of information and decades of an investigation, and yet if there was nothing credible, we wouldn't have those things. There was nothing credible to follow. There were no leads. If there was nothing egregious happening, there would be. There would have been no investigation. There wouldn't be all of this information that's now being dropped off in tens of thousands of emails, and we haven't even seen a fraction of it. So I think it's a moot point.

[Host/Anchor]

They also used that term before today, and we saw everything that was released today, which seems quite credible. Exactly. One of the things that we were just talking about this about how there could be. There are some Republicans who came out today and said they would support the discharge petition who hadn't previously done. Don Bacon as one of them. Kevin Kiley, maybe. How important do you think it is for a big number, any Republican who supports the idea of transparency in this case to vote, vote for it next week, sending a message that it's not just 220, but a much bigger number than that.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Well, also that you're not going to support pedophiles. You're not going to protect pedophiles, you're not going to protect people who continue to assault, victimize, harm girls and women, children. I mean, you're just not. That should be a nonpartisan issue. I mean, the fact that we're sitting around saying Democrats are pushing for this, it shouldn't be Democrats. All of us should be just, I mean, beyond appalled that anyone would stand in the way of finding out who's responsible and making sure they have justice.

[Host/Anchor]

And all of the people who are responsible. And I think this is a key part. Go ahead. What were you gonna just say?

[Jess Michaels]

No, you are either protecting pedophiles or children and victims. There's no gray line. It's only one or the other. And you can't. You can't ride the gray line. It doesn't exist.

[Host/Anchor]

That's such an important way to define it. There's so many different things happening right now. At one, to pay attention to Congressman Garcia said that there are more files that the estate has that they're working to get a hold of. We'll see when those are released, if they are released. What is in there? There's obviously the discharge petition. There are efforts to subpoena other people who may have more information. Are thereyou mentioned making sure that people are focused on all of the predators out there. Are there other things you want? Members of Congress, advocates, people are talking about this to be clear about what is necessary at this point?

[Jess Michaels]

Yes, we need to send a message to representatives, all of Congress. We need everyone on phones, on emails, and to not stop. You mentioned something earlier about, you know, more people potentially coming on to, to the dispatch position petition or to the vote. But what we're seeing is that one person stands up and then more follow, and then it turns into this beautiful contagion. And now you're seeing my face, but really, I'm representing thousands of survivors. Liz Stein and I were standing there in that house, but it wasn't. We knew it was not just us alone. And so I think there has to be a clearer message to the people that are stopping this from moving forward that it matters to the American people. And there's, and that is a nonpartisan issue. It should matter to every American. And it doesn't matter who is in that list, who is in those files. Justice and accountability are what is most important.

[Host/Anchor]

That is a perfect message. It is not political. Not political justice and accountability. People like you who are representing thousands of courageous survivors out there, that's what it's about. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being here and being so generous with your time on a big day in your life. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, coming up, one of the craziest press briefings I think, of Caroline Levitt's life, and there is a lot of competition for that. I'm going to show you what she was asked about the Epstein scandal and answer some questions for her when we come back. What a day to be the White House press secretary. As you can imagine, Caroline Levitt Field did a lot of questions on the new developments regarding Trump's relationship with convicted child sex predator Jeffrey Epstein. And no surprise, she was not in any way forthcoming. Now, because of that, I'm going to do things just like, a little bit differently today. First, I'm going to play for you some of the absurd answers she gave because they are worth hearing out loud. Then I'm going to give you the truthful answer. Let's start with Weijia Zhang from CBS News. Did the President ever spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a victim? These emails prove absolutely nothing other than.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

The fact that President Trump did nothing wrong.

[Host/Anchor]

And what President Trump has always said.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Is that he was from Palm beach.

[Host/Anchor]

And so was Jeffrey Epstein.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Jeffrey Epstein was a member at Mar a Lago until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile.

[Host/Anchor]

And he was a creep. Okay, that was a lot of words that said very little there from Caroline. So let me just read you the actual text of the email that Weija was referencing, because the email itself pretty clearly implies Trump was at his house. Here's the email from Jeffrey Epstein to Ghislaine Maxwell. You can see it right there on your screen. I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Then there's the redacted victim's name, which is redacted. Spend hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Police chief, et cetera. I'm 75% there. Now, this is not at all about my point of reading. That is not at all about whether or not they were friends. We already knew they were close friends. It's not about whether or not Epsom Epstein was a member of Mar a Lago. Those were not the questions. So sidestepping a very clear, pretty direct question that literally quotes is a reference to an email that was released today. Kind of tells you everything you need to know there. Okay, Mary Bruce from ABC News, what do you got? In the interest of transparency, why not just go ahead, release the full files on Epstein, get this all over with?

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

We have.

[Host/Anchor]

This administration has done more with respect.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

To transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than any administration ever. In fact, this administration, the Department of Justice, has turned over tens of thousands of documents to the American people.

[Host/Anchor]

We have. I mean, the American public is not dumb. The full Epstein files have not come remotely close to fully being released. In fact, what the Justice Department has released is a teeny tiny fraction of all the total files, as in less than 1%, according to Congressman Ro Khanna, who has been leading the effort to release the files. And frankly, Mary, to actually answer your question, I think today's news kind of speaks for itself. It has never been more clear why the Trump administration does not want to release the Epstein files than it is today. Okay, Mary Bruce, it seems you have a follow up question.

But given your.

Answer, Reagan and transparency.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Caroline, why are White House officials then.

[Host/Anchor]

Meeting with Representative Boebert in an effort to try and get her to not sign this petition calling for the release of the files.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

Doesn't it show transparency that members of the Trump administration are willing to brief members of Congress whenever they please? Doesn't that show our level of transparency?

[Host/Anchor]

No, that does not show your level of so called transparency at all. I mean, what it shows is that the president, who was MIA or sometimes sleeping in the Oval Office over the course of the government shutdown, has suddenly woken up in order to protect himself. And now he's so focused on a pressure campaign that involves meetings with Republican members of Congress into the Situation Room and meltdowns on Truth Social. That's what he's focused on. This is definitely not transparency at all. It is more kind of like self preservation. Okay, next up, Zolan Kano Young's from the New York Times. Go ahead, Stephen, go ahead. If the president is considering a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell. Ms. Again, he's answered this repeatedly. It's not something he's talking about or even thinking about at this moment in time. I can assure you of that. At this moment in time is doing a lot of heavy lifting there in Caroline's answer. I mean, Remember back in 2017, this is just one example when White House lawyer Ty Cobb said there is no consideration at the White House of any pardon for Michael Flynn. Very clear there. And then three years later, boom, Trump pardoned the guy. Should Trump pardon Maxwell in the future, it would not be the first time a denial preceded the action. So don't lean too much into it. Okay, we have time for just one more. Jared Halpern of Fox Radio, I hear you have a non Epstein related question. Make it quick. Is the president intending to invite any Democrats over to have negotiations over these subsidies or any other plan to bring down the cost of health insurance? That's an easy one. Don't hold your breath. We'll be right back. Okay, one more thing to tell you. The latest episode of my podcast the Blueprint is available right now. I had a great conversation with Democratic Florida to Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok holiday PSA from DSW. This is a reminder that shoes are a gift, literally.

[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

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[Host/Anchor]

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[Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva]

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[Host/Anchor]

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