'From lecturing to listening': Mamdani explains how he drew votes from Trump supporters in NYC race

Summary

The Briefing with Jen Psaki – Episode: 'From Lecturing to Listening': Mamdani Explains How He Drew Votes from Trump Supporters in NYC Race Release Date: June 26, 2025

Overview

In this compelling episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki, host Jen Psaki delves into the remarkable victory of Zoran Mamdani in the New York City mayoral race. The episode not only dissects Mamdani's successful campaign strategies that appealed to a broad spectrum of voters, including Trump supporters, but also transitions into significant political developments involving Congresswoman LaMonica McIver and Senator Adam Schiff. Psaki provides insightful interviews and in-depth analysis, making the episode a must-listen for those interested in modern political dynamics.

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I. Zoran Mamdani's Historic Victory

A. Background of the Mayoral Race

Jen Psaki opens the episode by highlighting Zoran Mamdani's unexpected triumph in a fiercely contested primary against 10 other candidates, including the controversial former Governor Andrew Cuomo. Despite Cuomo's significant advantages—“virtually all of the money on his side, including a record-breaking $25 million from a pro-Cuomo super PAC” ([02:07]), Mamdani surged ahead by adopting a fresh, engaging campaign approach.

B. Mamdani’s Campaign Strategy

Mamdani's success is attributed to his shift from traditional lecture-based campaigning to a more listening-oriented approach. Psaki emphasizes that Mamdani’s presence on social media with “joyful, authentic, and funny” videos ([05:01]) resonated with voters. These videos not only disseminated his policy proposals but also provided practical voting information, thereby increasing voter turnout among demographics that typically abstain.

Mamdani explained:
“They were joyful, they were authentic and funny. And each and every one of them either explained what he would actually do as mayor or gave voters practical information about how and where to vote” ([04:19]).

C. Volunteer Mobilization and Grassroots Effort

A cornerstone of Mamdani's campaign was its robust volunteer network. Psaki notes that the campaign “recruited over 40,000 volunteers who knocked on more than 1 million doors before Election Day” ([05:01]). This grassroots mobilization was pivotal in securing key neighborhoods like Crown Heights, where Mamdani won by 26 points despite Cuomo’s targeted outreach.

D. Policy Focus on Affordability

Mamdani’s platform centered on addressing economic struggles, offering solutions such as freezing rent, building affordable housing, making buses fast and free, and delivering universal childcare. He stated, “I believe we can freeze the rent for more than 2 million tenants and build hundreds of thousands of affordable homes” ([06:17]).

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II. Interview with Zoran Mamdani

A. Campaign Philosophy: From Lecturing to Listening

In his first national interview post-victory, Mamdani elaborates on his campaign’s ethos of listening over lecturing. “We built a campaign that was explicitly about making the city affordable...moving our political instinct from lecturing to listening” ([10:25]).

B. National Implications and Democratic Party Dynamics

Mamdani contemplates the broader implications of his victory for the Democratic Party, suggesting it signals a shift towards grassroots, people-centered politics. He remarks, “This is part of a larger referendum on where our party goes” ([10:25]).

C. Navigating Endorsements and Building a Coalition

Addressing the absence of endorsements from Democratic leaders like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, Mamdani expresses a desire for their support while emphasizing the importance of an expanding, inclusive coalition. “I want the support of any leader across this city and this state and this country” ([15:40]).

D. Future Challenges: General Election and Broadening Support

Looking ahead, Mamdani acknowledges the hurdles in the general election, including potential opposition from figures like Eric Adams and addressing concerns from voters wary of his views on Israel. “There are plenty of hard questions he needs to answer” ([06:43]).

Mamdani states:
“I am looking to lead this entire city to represent each and every New Yorker...the responsibility of a leader is to reach out to all eight and a half million people who call the city their home” ([20:33]).

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III. Congresswoman LaMonica McIver’s Arraignment

A. Overview of the Incident

Psaki transitions to the legal troubles of New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica McIver, who pleaded not guilty to charges of assaulting federal agents during a visit to an ICE detention center in Newark. The episode underscores the broader context of alleged inhumane conditions in privately run detention facilities.

B. Interview with McIver

In a candid interview, McIver shares her emotional state post-arraignment, emphasizing that the charges are politically motivated attempts to intimidate elected officials. “This is all about political intimidation... We cannot allow this administration to stop us” ([31:49]).

She discusses the lack of legal support from congressional leadership, highlighting the necessity of raising personal funds to defend herself. McIver also criticizes the administration's tactics, stating, “They have continued to do this to people that they feel that are their enemies or the folks who are speaking up and out against them” ([35:02]).

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IV. Senator Adam Schiff’s Hearing on Emil Bov

A. Context of the Hearing

The episode further explores Senator Adam Schiff’s recent Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, where he questioned Emil Bov, a former Trump lawyer nominated for a federal judgeship. Schiff scrutinized Bov's questionable actions, including diverting justice department resources.

B. Key Takeaways from Schiff’s Interview

Shiff criticized Bov’s credibility, particularly Bov’s alleged suggestion to “tell the court f** you”* ([39:21]). He expressed concern over Bov’s handling of corruption cases, notably the dismissal of charges against New York’s Mayor, labeling it as the “lamest excuse” ([41:25]).

Shiff also addressed the lack of accountability, noting, “I didn't hear anyone on the Republican side of the aisle question him about any of these things” ([43:18]). He emphasized the importance of transparency and integrity in judicial appointments, hoping for candid testimonies from intelligence and defense professionals in future briefings.

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V. Conclusion

Jen Psaki wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of Mamdani’s victory as a beacon of optimistic, grassroots-driven politics. She ties in the broader themes of political accountability and the ongoing struggles faced by elected officials like McIver. The episode culminates with a focus on the need for integrity within the judiciary, as highlighted by Schiff’s probing of Emil Bov.

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Notable Quotes

• “Tonight. We made history. In the words of Nelson Mandela, it always seems impossible until it is done.” – Zoran Mamdani ([01:48])

• “I believe we can freeze the rent for more than 2 million tenants and build hundreds of thousands of affordable homes.” – Zoran Mamdani ([06:17])

• “This is all about political intimidation. We cannot allow this administration to stop us.” – LaMonica McIver ([31:49])

• “His rationale that he did this because the charges against Adams would interfere with the performance of his job. That is the lamest excuse I've ever heard for dismissing a corruption case against an elected official.” – Senator Adam Schiff ([41:25])

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This episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki offers a multifaceted exploration of current political landscapes, emphasizing the transformative campaign strategies that led to Zoran Mamdani’s victory, the challenges faced by Congresswoman McIver, and the critical examination of judicial appointments by Senator Schiff. Through in-depth interviews and incisive analysis, Psaki provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these pivotal political events.

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

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Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Brit break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Zoran Mamdani]

In just a moment, I'm going to talk to Zoran Ramdani for his first national interview since the 33 year old, 33 years old, self described socialist set off what I would call a political earthquake last night. Now, if you're a loyal viewer of this show, first off, thank you for being a loyal viewer of the show. We really appreciate you. And second, you probably recognize Zoran Mandani. If you're a New Yorker, you probably recognize Zoran Mandani. He's been my guest here twice since launching his campaign. We've talked about a lot, but a lot has happened in even just the last ten days or so since we spoke in a race where he was polling 10 points behind just four weeks ago. Last night he gave a victory speech and here's part of what he said.

Tonight. We made history. In the words of Nelson Mandela, it always seems impossible until it is done.

Now, Mamdani ran in a crowded primary field, very crowded, against 10 other candidates. One of those candidates was the presumed frontrunner from the very beginning. You can see him on the screen. You know who he is, former governor Andrew Cuomo, who resigned in disgrace four years ago after 11 women accused him of sexual harassment. And yet somehow, despite that, this mayoral race, this primary was supposed to be Andrew Cuomo's comeback. And somehow, despite all of that, he had all the traditional backers that you might expect for a normal Democratic frontrunner who wasn't accused of sexual harassment. Of 11 women, he had all of them. Most of the major unions endorsed him, with some notable exceptions I'll say. Like Sean Fain's uaw, he also had virtually all of the money on his side, including a record breaking $25 million from a pro Cuomo super PAC funded largely by Michael Bloomberg. Trump donor Bill Ackman. Yes, that guy. And the delivery company DoorDash. Cole also had many of the old school big name political endorsements, including from people outside of New York who decided to get involved, like former President Bill Clinton and Congressman James Clyburn. I guess for some, and I've been thinking about this, why they endorse. There's lots of reasons, I suppose, for the fear of supporting a young self described socialist overtook the fear of supporting a credibly accused serial sexual harasser. I suppose that's one of the reasons. But despite Cuomo's advantages on paper, the endorsements, the money, all of that, and his very high name recognition, which is certainly an advantage, he ran what has been described repeatedly as a joyless campaign. He was largely shielded from his critics, he avoided tough interviews, and he campaigned in overall a pretty unimaginative way. By contrast, Zoran Mandani ran a campaign that could not have been any more different. I mean, for starters, he showed up on social media with creative videos from the very beginning, like these.

I'm Friezik, your rep, as the next mayor of New York City. Let's plunge into the details. We have just begun our walk through the entirety of Manhattan. We're outside because New Yorkers deserve a mayor that they can see, they can hear, they can even yell at. Will you be my Democrat? New York is suffering from a crisis and it's called Halal afflation. I'm about to say something to you. You've never heard a politician say. Please stop sending us money. I'm putting out the call to New Yorkers assemble.

They were joyful, they were authentic and funny. And each and every one of them either explained what he would actually do as mayor or gave voters practical information about how and where to vote, which is incredibly important when you're trying to turn people out who don't always vote. But Zoram Ghani's campaign was also a massive organizing success. It wasn't just online. I mean, the campaign says it recruited over 40,000 volunteers who knocked on more than 1 million doors before election Day. And he showed up in places where he wasn't expected, which is pretty key in a big lesson, like Crown Heights, which is a historically black and Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn where Mamdani held one of his final campaign events. Despite Andrew Cuomo's direct appeal to those exact voters. Mamdani won that neighborhood by 26 points. He won for a range of reasons, partly by sharing his contagious love for New York City, whether it was eating an egg and cheese at a bodega or riding the Staten Island Ferry. He did it by running a campaign that was optimistic, that was hopeful and aspirational, one where he thought. He said what he thought, not necessarily always, what was politically popular. And he did it by speaking to the core economic struggles of millions of people in the city.

I believe we can freeze the rent for more than 2 million tenants and build hundreds of thousands of affordable homes. I we can make the slowest buses in the nation fast and free, and I believe that we can deliver universal childcare to make it easier to raise a family in this city.

Now, what is right in New York City isn't necessarily right for every city or every state in the country. The demographics are different. The issues people care about and they grapple with are different. Unquestionably, maybe Mamdani will be one of the leaders of the Democratic Party, maybe not. We'll see. But regardless, this race is what makes politics joyful and inspiring. Someone who everyone underestimated, someone who was doubted and questioned and attacked with racist mailers and attack ads, someone who the gray hairs in the party said was too young, too inexperienced to win, overcame all of that. Look, it's so easy to be cynical in politics. And believe me, I've been around a long time to rely on what you've always known, whether it is the names or the styles of campaigning, the types of events or even the policies that poll well. But that playbook is tired, and that playbook no longer works. Clearly, it's not over, though, either. And this is part of what we're going to talk about. I mean, there's still a road ahead. The primary race won't officially be called before the ranked choice votes are tallied next Tuesday, though it seems very clear Mamdani will have a big advantage. And Mamdani still needs to win in November. He will face another disgraced opponent, Eric Adams, who has the distinct honor of having made a deal with the devil in the White House to stay out of jail. So he has that honor, I suppose, to run on. There are also tough questions Mohamdani will need to answer as he works to build on the coalition that led to his success last night. That includes expanding his support in New York and finding a way to address the concerns of some voters who disagree with his views on Israel and how he has expressed them. So, yes, there's plenty of hard work ahead for Zoran Mandani. Plenty, plenty of hard questions he needs to answer. But what he accomplished last night is also a reminder that politics is supposed to be. It is about how you make people feel. It's about inviting people in. It's about making the voters who you are reaching out to feel that you are a person who hears them, who wants to speak for them when no one else will. And there's no question that, at least as a start, he has a huge gift for that. Joining me now for his first national interview since yesterday's election in New York City is Zoran Mamdani. It's great to see you. I don't know if you've slept and I'm sure you are still processing what happened last night. A lot of people on our team stayed up and watched your speech. I just laid out how I think you garnered as much support as you did as you processed this. What did I miss?

I think you covered quite a bit of how we got to this point. And I think the only thing I would really add is this volunteer team that we have built of now more than 50,000 people. They are the New Yorkers for whom democracy had started to lose meaning. It started to lose its relevance to the struggles of everyday New Yorkers. And they are the ones who for so long had not seen themselves in our local politics. And yet they are also the ones who brought us to this point, who knocked on more than one and a half million doors across the five boroughs and showcased that a vision for, for a New York City, currently the most expensive city in the United States, a vision that would make it affordable is one that speaks not only to progressives, but speaks to New Yorkers across the five boroughs from Harlem to Bay Ridge, and speaks to the very fact that ultimately what city government's job is is to make this city that much easier to live in and actually achieve the very dreams that brought you here in the first place.

As I'm sure you know, you probably haven't consumed all of it, I suppose. But there's been a lot of analysis a ton on what success last night and in the last couple of weeks means nationally for the Democratic Party. Unquestionably, it means something about how people campaign. But what do you think it means?

I think it is part of a larger referendum on where our party goes. And I think one of the hopes that we had from the very beginning of this campaign was to move our political Instinct, from lecturing to listening. You know, at the national level, after the presidential election, we saw that New York was actually the state with the largest swing in the country toward Donald Trump, 11 and a half points, and that that swing took place far from the caricature of Trump voters, instead taking place in the hearts of immigrant New York City. And I went to those neighborhoods. I went to Fordham Road in the Bronx and Hillside Avenue in Queens, and I asked those New Yorkers, the vast majority of whom were Democrats, why they voted for Trump and what it would take to bring them back to the Democratic Party. And again and again, what I heard from them was cost of living was an inability to afford the very things they recalled being able to purchase four years ago. And when they told me what it would take, they said again and again, a relentless focus on an economic agenda. And ultimately, in listening to them, we built a campaign that was explicitly about making the city affordable. And I think too often in politics, there's a desire to impose what you think the debate is upon the people that you're seeking to represent, as opposed to listening to the very issues that are making it difficult for them to keep calling the city that they love, the city that they live in.

I mean, you're running on issues that are very relevant to people in New York City. The cost of housing, free busing. Some have projected, you know, that this is the type of platform that would work in other parts of the country. I mean, you're a proud democratic socialist. Do you think that is a platform that would work for other candidates running in other parts of the country?

Absolutely. I think ultimately this is a campaign about inequality, and you don't have to live in the most expensive city in the country to have experienced that inequality, because it's a national issue. And what Americans coast to coast are looking for are people who will fight for them. Not just believe in the things that resonate with their lives, but actually fight and deliver on those very things. And part of how we got to this point was through the endorsements of Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and Senator Bernie Sanders, who've been leading this fight against oligarchy across the country. And I think that in focusing on working people and their struggles, we also return back to what makes so many of us proud to be Democrats in the first place.

Let's talk a little bit about the path forward here, because you still have to win a general election, and that is going to be hard fought, which I know, you know, you are on track to defeat Andrew Cuomo. He called you to concede afterwards? A couple of times. He seems to have floated this potential plan or consideration of running as an independent. Are you preparing for him to run as an independent in the general election, or do you think it's possible he could drop out entirely before next Tuesday?

I think that everything is possible in this race, as we've seen over many, many months. And ultimately, we are prepared for taking on whomever our opponents may be in November. Because when I started this race, I started it running against Eric Adams second term, running to finally have a city government that sought to resolve the affordability crisis, not exacerbate it. And when Eric Adams dropped out of the Democratic primary, it was Andrew Cu that picked up the mantle of that second term. The same donors, the same corruption, the same small vision funded by big money. And we have now defeated that vision in this primary. And I'm prepared to defeat that vision in the general, no matter who it.

Is that's carrying it if Andrew Cuomo drops out. He had a lot of big money backers. Do you think they're going to big money back Eric Adams? Is that what you're preparing for?

I think that it's possible. I also think that we have found exactly the way to defeat organized money, which is organized people. We're speaking about a scale of a campaign that we haven't seen in the city in a long time. And ultimately, we believe in a politics of no translation, one that is both direct to the struggles of working people's lives and also delivered directly. And there is nothing more direct than a New Yorker knocking on another New Yorker's door. And that has been such a key part of this campaign's ability to break through more than $30 million in opposition spending where New Yorkers were blanketed with attack ads, whether it be when they were turning on their television, their radio, opening their mailbox, or even just watching YouTube. And we were still able to triumph over that.

Both Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer, obviously two Democratic leaders that have had some, I guess, nice things to say. I could describe them as about you, but didn't endorse you and still haven't endorsed you almost 24 hours after Andrew Cuomo called you to concede. Why do you think that is?

Well, I appreciated both of their remarks, both their acknowledging of the focus of this campaign on affordability, and also with Senator Schumer having worked with him closely to deliver close to half a billion dollars in debt relief for thousands of taxi drivers, as well as successfully defeat a proposal to build a fracked gas power plant in my district of Astoria in western Queens. And I think what we are seeing in this moment is an understanding of the mandate that New Yorkers have given us to deliver on this affordability and also the fact that we will wait a few more days to see the actual final results of this, although we know that we have won this race even without the assistance of ranked choice voting.

Do you? I don't think endorsements win elections necessarily, but there's not a lot of proof of that in history. But do you want their support or do you not care if they come out and forcibly endorse you?

I want their support and I want the support of any leader across this city and this state and this country. Because ultimately what we are looking to show New Yorkers is the fact that this is an ever expanding coalition. It's not one that is trying to keep tabs of when people join this fight. It's one that's looking to actually deliver on this fight. And what that means is ensuring we use every single tool at our disposal to freeze the rent, to make buses fast and free, and to deliver universal childcare.

So, Raman Mandani, we have to take a very quick 90 second break. We're gonna be right back. Please stay right where you are.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie. Wherever you listen to podcasts, busy work.

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[Zoran Mamdani]

We are back with Zoran Mamdani. I just want to continue the conversation we were having before the break because Senator Bernie Sanders was asked about what I'm just going to call non endorsements from people like Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer today. And I just want to play what he had to say.

We saw the Democratic leaders have put out statements that were nice and kind, but not necessarily outright endorsements. Is it time for Democratic leaders to get fully behind him?

[Lamonica McIver]

Well, the Democrat look, the Democratic leadership sadly too often is tied to the billionaire class and their campaign contributions. What the Democratic leadership has got to do is make a choice. Which side are you on?

[Zoran Mamdani]

He seems to be saying. But I want to hear what you have to say about it, that it's time for choosing in the Democratic Party, that you have to decide what side you're on. And not endorsing is choosing on the side of billionaires. But do you see it that way? How do you see it?

You know, I think what we are seeing New Yorkers face a choice of, especially over the course of this primary election, was whether they wanted a candidate in a campaign of the past that was funded in the same way that so many campaigns have been, which is by the very billionaires and corporations that I am looking to tax to make the city affordable for each and every New Yorker. And we've seen the people of New York City make their choice. We've seen them make that choice in a manner that has little precedent in recent years. And ultimately that's the choice that I'm most excited about.

I know you were working to expand your coalition because you are being very careful which you are running in a general election. And I understand that. So I want to ask you about one aspect of that because you're running to be the mayor of the city with the largest population of Jewish people outside of Israel and the world. And at a time which I know you know because you've addressed this before when there has been a significant uptick in anti Semitic rhetoric and hate crimes against Jews. It's very scary to be a Jewish American right now. And you've been criticized by a number of Jewish leaders as well. As the US Holocaust Museum for your defense of the phrase globalize the intifada. Last night in your speech, you alluded, so I know this is on your mind, you alluded to concerns from the Jewish community, even vowing to reach further to understand their perspectives of those whom you disagree. So for Jewish New Yorkers, I mean, this is sort of the first day the race hasn't been called. But you did give a speech last night claiming victory, and your opponent did concede. For Jewish voters who are watching right now, who are scared, who aren't sure if you can effectively represent them, what's your message to them tonight?

My message is that I am looking to lead this entire city to represent each and every New Yorker. And that representation is not contingent on whether or not someone votes for me or someone agrees with me, because the responsibility of a leader is to reach out to all eight and a half million people who call the city their home. And I know that Jewish New Yorkers like Jewish Americans and are fearful in this moment of anti Semitism. They are fearful, especially after the horrific attacks that we saw in Washington, D.C. and in Boulder, Colorado. And they're fearful also in conversations that I have heard myself about life in this city. I spoke to a Jewish man in Williamsburg not too many weeks ago who told me about the fact that he now locks the door that he used to close, that he used to keep open for years because of a fear of who may come in. I spoke to a friend of mine after October 7th who told me about going to his synagogue for Shabbat services and hearing the door open behind him and turning around with a tremor going up his back, not knowing who was walking in and what they wished for them. And ultimately, it's through the conversations I've had with Jewish New Yorkers that I have developed a proposal for the Department of Community Safety that would include an 800% increase in funding for hate crime prevention programs. Because ultimately, we cannot simply say that antisemitism has no home in this city or no place in this country. We have to do more than talk about it. We have to tackle it. And that's what we will do through this funding and through this commitment. We will root out bigotry across the five boroughs.

As you're looking to kind of appeal to people or connect with people who are skeptical. What does that look like for you over the next couple of months, to the members of the Jewish community, to some of these leaders who have been critical, what should they expect and anticipate from you?

They should expect My continuing to reach out most especially to those who are concerned or who do disagree. Because ultimately, in politics, too often you surround yourself only with those that are quickest to say yes or quickest to already be in the same place as you, when in fact, we have to be able to navigate that disagreement and that tension. And I often think about the words of a previous mayor, Mayor Koch, who said that if you agree with me on 9 out of 12 issues, vote for me. 12 out of 12 see a psychiatrist. And I think of an elder Jewish woman who came up to me at B' Nai Jeshurun, a synagogue on the Upper west side, many months ago after a Democratic Club forum, who whispered in my ear, I disagree with you on one issue. I'm pretty sure you know which one it is, but I agree with you on the others. And I'm gonna be ranking you. And I think that ability to understand that even in disagreement, it's still rooted in a shared sense of humanity. That is something that makes this city great, and that is something that I will deliver as the next mayor of this city.

You're going to be dealing with tremendous attacks from MAGA Republicans. We've already seen that over the last 24 hours, including from Stephen Miller, Elise Stefanik, the NRCC. They're already trying to run an Islamophobic campaign against you, which I will just note. And you've lived this. But for people who are just tuning in is a continuation of some of the tactics that we saw during the primary. But it's gonna come tenfold. I know you know that, but how are you gonna handle that personally?

You know, it's sad in that, in one sense, it's unsurprising in another. It is still deeply disappointing to see what politics has become in this moment, to have to deal with regular death threats where I'm told that someone is going to blow up my car and is going to kill me and. And the people that I love. And I've spoken to many Muslims across the city who have shared that their fear of having to be essentially branded a terrorist just by living in public life is one that keeps them preferring life in the shadows, life outside of that specter. And this is not the way that we can have our city be. It's not the way that we can have our country be. This has to be a place where we understand the mutual belonging of each and every person here. And I'm lucky to have friends and family that keep me moving through this. I'm lucky that I'm able to through my campaign, to have security and also to have the assistance of the NYPD in both investigating these threats and ensuring that I have the same public safety that each and every New Yorker deserves.

New York, as you well know better than anyone, you've probably had food from every single culture in New York, so there's that. But it is a very diverse city. There's a huge Muslim American population in New York City as well. You would be, if you're elected, and you've got a ways to go here. But the first Muslim American mayor of New York City, what does that mean to you?

It means a lot. You know, I think about my grandmother Khalsum and my grandfather Yusuf, and how they taught me from a young age that to be a good Muslim is to be a good person. It's to help those in need and harm no one. And ultimately, I've sought to do that over the course of my life. And especially in a time when the mere mention of being Muslim is seen as if it is a slur. It is also an opportunity for me to introduce the fact that being Muslim is like being a member of any other faith. It is believing and belonging in a notion of equality and in solidarity. And I know that it is so meaningful for the million Muslims that call New York City their home to see the fact that representation can be something that exists not just across the five boroughs, but also in City Hall.

So, Ramdani, I hope for people watching who are just meeting you, who are thinking about running for office, think it's not possible, think they can't connect with their community or don't know how to do it. Whether they agree with you on everything or not, they don't have to. That they've found some inspiration in your story. It certainly has been for many people. Thank you so much for joining me tonight.

Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure.

Always. Coming up, Senator Adam Schiff was forced to drop an F bomb of sorts in a confirmation hearing today while questioning the Trump lackey who's trying to become a federal judge. Senator Schiff is going to talk with me about that in just a few minutes. But First, Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver appeared for her arraignment today after being indicted by Donald Trump's Justice Department. Congresswoman McIver is here for her very first interview since entering her plea of not guilty. We'll be right back.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt Break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before, and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie Wherever you listen to podcasts.

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[Zoran Mamdani]

Today, New Jersey Congresswoman Lamonica McIver pleaded not guilty to charges that she assaulted federal agents at an immigration detention center in Newark last month. She says the charges are unfounded and are nothing short of political intimidation by a weaponized Justice Department. We're going to discuss all of that with Representative MacGyver herself in just a moment, but before that, I want to talk about what she was doing at that immigration detention center to begin with, because this is such an important part of it. She was at that facility to perform oversight, which is something every member of Congress has the right to do and should do. She was there to tour it and make sure the conditions inside the facilities were humane. Here's how the New York Times described the conditions at that facility a few weeks after McIver's visit. Meals had been erratic at the privately run facility. Some detainees were sleeping on floors, and the water available from faucets was sometimes scalding or foul tasting. One afternoon, after detainees claimed they had been given slices of bread in place of a meal, several dozen men began smashing walls and windows. By the time the disruption was over, four men had escaped. Now, I should say that the private company that runs this immigration detention center denies any allegations about shortages of food or water or beds. But those allegations are popping up at privately run immigration detention facilities all across the country. It's not isolated at all at Delaney Hall, I mean, this weekend, the Associated Press reported on the alleged conditions at two private immigration prisons in Texas. They have reports of adults literally fighting kids for access to clean water inside. The private companies that run those prisons either did not respond to the AP's request for comment or referred questions to ICE. You know how that went. In California, lawmakers, activists, and even staff from inside of the prison itself are alleging moldy food, dirty towels, and inhumane conditions at the state's largest private immigration detention center. The company that runs that facility did not respond to the LA Times request for comments either. In Georgia, a 19 year old college student described the conditions of her confinement like this. La comidas, comida de perro, despierta, mientras de grita. Each pod is a big box, like a huge box, like a warehouse. Basically. There's three showers, three toilets and three sinks for 60 people. It's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Something she wouldn't wish on her worst enemy. She's 19 years old. Again, the company that runs that facility denies all of these claims. Yesterday, CBS News obtained internal government data, though, showing that right now ICE is holding a record 59,000 immigrant detainees. Well, the agency is only actually funded for a little more than 40,000 beds. So that is a gap of nearly 20,000 beds. We have a moral responsibility to know how the people of our country who are detained or being treated. And that is why it is so important that Representative Lamonica MacGyver was doing the oversight work she was doing at that facility in Newark. Lamonica MacGyver is standing by for her first interview since her arraignment today. She joins me next.

[Lamonica McIver]

I just left out of court and pleaded not guilty because I'm not guilty. And you know, we will fight this. At the end of the day, this is all about political intimidation. We've seen different cases of cases of this administration bullying and intimidating elected leaders from judges to anyone that gets in their way. This is what they do and we will not stand for it. I will not stand for it. They will not intimidate me. They will not stop me from doing my job. I will continue to do what the people of the 10th congressional district elected me to do.

[Zoran Mamdani]

That was Congresswoman Lamonica McIver today, shortly after pleading not guilty in federal court. The charges stem from this moment. McIver attempted to visit an ICE detention facility in Newark. Newark, New Jersey, last month, which is something every member of Congress has the right to do. I'm just gonna keep repeating. And ended up in a physical skirmish with ICE agents. You can see that on the screen. We're gonna keep playing it so people know and understand. Joining me now at the table is Democratic Congressman LaMonica. MacGyver, it's great to see you, and we wanted to play that clip of you because you have been incredibly fearless in responding to this. And I wanna talk to you about that. But I first wanna ask you, the last time we spoke, you said you couldn't wait for your day in the courtroom, so you had that. What was it like to be in the courtroom?

[Lamonica McIver]

I mean, there was a mix of emotions to be there. I mean, obviously, you know, this is a crazy situation. I never thought I would be facing charges as a sitting congresswoman. It's a scary situation, too, because I'm thinking of my mom. I'm thinking of my mom who was there with me, who's, like, stressed out about this, right?

[Zoran Mamdani]

That's stressed out from.

[Lamonica McIver]

All right. When they're saying that you're gonna face 17 years in prison, I'm thinking about my daughter, who's nine years, about my husband, my family. And it's like, oh, my God, this is awful. But at the same time, it's like, I'm not gonna stop doing my job because I know why I was there, and I know why I'm being attacked. And so definitely just a mix of emotions during that period of time. And at the same time, I was happy to see it moving, you know, going through the process that it's going through today. Obviously, I pleaded not guilty because I'm not guilty. And I'm looking forward to the next time being there and having the facts all laid out and really getting through this process, because it's also stressful, right? I mean, at the same leading, I'm doing the work of the people that have elected me from the 10th congressional district in New Jersey. But at the same time, this is stress. It's expensive, right? Because you have to fight this case, and it's a legal case where you have to have a lawyer, an entire legal team to defend you. And so it's just. It's a lot, and it's unfortunate, and it's unnecessary. But at the same time, we cannot allow this administration to stop us, as, you know, elected leaders, Democrats especially, from Doing their jobs, I mean, the expenses.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Is something I think people aren't really aware of. Are there legal resources that are helping you? And this is something I think I know the answer to this. They don't exist in the House. There's no precedent for this. So there is nothing coming from your office or from leadership. It just doesn't exist.

[Lamonica McIver]

Correct? That is right. Like, we have to. I have to basically raise funding to be able to fight this case. And I think that's kind of like the point of it all for the Trump administration, too, to be cruel, to go after people that they feel that are their enemies or the folks who are speaking up and out against them, and so they do this to them. And so having to have a legal team, having to fight this case, I mean, that is a real situation. And you want to be able to have a good legal team because, I mean, you heard it. I'm facing 17 years for going to do my job. And it's just a pattern with this administration and different things that they continue to do to people that are extremely cruel.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You've previously described your encounter, and we showed that video on our show a number of times with these ICE officers at Delaney hall as assault. I mean, that you felt assaulted. Do you know or do you have any sense as to whether they're still on duty?

[Lamonica McIver]

I have no idea. You know, I do not know. I know that there have been different committees. You know, Rep. Raskin has talked about calling for a full investigation. I mean, even the situation that happened with the United States Senator, like, you know, are these people still working? Like, has there been any consequence for how they have behaved, what they've done? We just do not know. This administration is not answering questions or providing us information as they should be. Look, we can even go in and do our jobs. Like you go. You've seen many representatives showing up to these different facilities to get doing an oversight visit, and they're being told no, some are being tear gassed. I mean, literally, it has been nothing but chaos and confusion with this administration.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Baraka, as Mayor Baraka, I should say everybody knows who he is, but he filed a lawsuit against U.S. attorney Alina Haba accusing the Trump administration of weaponizing the Justice Department. Is that something you're considering?

[Lamonica McIver]

I mean, it's one step at a time for me right now. The goal is to beat these charges, you know, move on from this. And so we're taking it step by step. I think that the mayor is definitely, absolutely right. He should have filed a lawsuit against them. They Basically wrongfully arrested him, created that entire chaotic situation that involved members of Congress, him and protesters who were out there peacefully protesting, which we weren't there for. We were there for an oversight visit, not a part of a protest, But I think to humiliate him like that, you know, someone who honestly is running for office, who is in the middle of a governor's race, who has been very vocal about this facility not being up to par, which proved that they weren't based off what just happened there a couple of weeks ago. I think that he has every right, you know, to defend himself and file this lawsuit and hold them accountable. Right. For what they did.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Congressman McIver, you're very courageous. I know. I'm sure your daughter is very proud. We have daughters the same age. And your mom. Thank you so much for being here.

[Lamonica McIver]

Well, thank you for always. It's always a pleasure to come up here and be with you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I appreciate it. Coming up today, Senator Adam Schiff questioned Donald Trump's henchman who now wants to be a federal judge.

[Lamonica McIver]

He.

[Zoran Mamdani]

He didn't hold back. You can imagine how well that went for the henchmen. Senator Schiff is standing by, and he joins me next. So there was a hearing in the Senate today to consider Donald Trump's latest nominees for lifetime appointments to the federal judiciary. And among them is Trump's former lawyer who also served as his acting deputy attorney general, Emil Bov. And remember, it was Bovee who effectively led the DOJ's purge of lawyers who worked on January 6th cases. That guy. It was Bovey who prompted mass resignations when he ordered charges to be dropped against Eric Adams. And it was Bovee who, according to a new whistleblower report, told DOJ officials that he was willing to defy court orders to carry out Trump's immigration crackdown, as that whistleblower wrote. Bovey stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the court fu and ignore any such order. And yes, Miel Bovey was asked about that today.

[Adam Schiff]

In the complaint, it says Bovet stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts you and ignoring any such court order. Did you say anything of that kind in the meeting.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Senator? I have no recollection of saying anything of that kind. Okay. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Schiff, let me just ask you, I mean, during the hearing, and we gave one example, which was a big moment during that hearing when you were questioning him. He offered, though, throughout, basically shifting rationales refused to answer a number of straightforward questions about his actions. What stuck out to you today?

[Adam Schiff]

Well, there were a number of things that stuck out. In that exchange, which went on for some time. He reiterated he just doesn't remember whether he had suggested that they should ignore court orders and say f you to the court. I was a Prosecutor more than 30 years ago, and even though it's been a long time, I would remember if I suggested saying f you to the court and ignoring a court order. That's simply not credible. And so many of the prosecutors that felt they had to resign because what they were being asked to do by Emil Bovet was so immoral, so violative of the rules of the Justice Department, the policies and, you know, the ethics of the department, and those prosecutors have so much more credibility than Emile Beauvais. But I was also struck in questioning him about the dismissal of the corruption case against the mayor of New York because he was the architect. He was the one that was pushing for that. His rationale that he did this because the charges against Adams would interfere with the performance of his job. That is the lamest excuse I've ever heard for dismissing a corruption case against an elected official. I served in the Public Corruption section. I prosecuted corrupt people. And you would never suggest that politicians get a passion because if you were to try them or convict them, it would interfere in their job. And I don't even know how you say that with a straight face, but he tried today.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I mean, it's important to remind people that he's being nominated to an appointment to be a judge, a federal judge, which is a significant appointment. Do you think there's anything that's stopping him in the Senate? I mean, are there enough Republicans who might not support him, or is that a naive hope?

[Adam Schiff]

You know, I think there's concern in the administration that the same thing that happened to Ed Martin may happen to Emile Beauvais. That is, there's a lot of really bad stuff in his background. And the more it comes out, the more Republicans feel the pressure not to approve such an unqualified person. And it's for that reason we had something very unusual during this confirmation hearing today, and that is the Attorney General and the deputy attorney general. Both Bondi and Blanche sat there for hours, and they weren't there to be illuminated. They weren't there to show their moral support for Beauvais. They were there to keep an eye on the Republicans, to let the Republicans on the committee know we are watching you. We do not want a repetition of that. Flare up of conscience that we saw when it came to Ed Martin. You will vote as you're told. And so, you know, I didn't hear anyone on the Republican side of the aisle question him about any of these things, which is really astounding because there were so many things to ask him about. Not just the case involving the mayor of New York, not just this whistleblower with the new allegations against him, but also his pressuring one prosecutor to open a criminal case or say there was a criminal case where there was none, forcing her to resign. No, not even a murmur, not even a question, not even a hint of concern about any of this from any of the Republican senators that I heard.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I want to ask you about something quickly. Only about a minute left, but since you have a broad range of expertise, there is. According to Punchbowl News, the White House has agreed to send CIA Director Ratcliffe for the classified Senate briefing on the Iran strikes. There's lots of questions. What do you hope to have answered when he comes?

[Adam Schiff]

Well, I hope to get some answers on what was the intelligence showing us about the threat of Iran's nuclear program before the president ordered these strikes? That is, was there some new imminent threat? Was something different than in March when the intelligence agencies, according to the public testimony of the dni, did not believe Iran had made the decision to embark on a weapons program or to build the bombs. Did something change? And then in the wake of the attacks, I want to know, were they successful? I hope they were. I hope everything was obliterated. But I want to know the truth. And sadly, Jen, you can't count on Radcliffe to tell us the truth. He has demonstrated his willingness to toe the political line. You certainly can't count on Gabbard, who's not going to be there. You definitely can't count on Hegseth. I'm hoping they have some professionals there from the intelligence community, from the Defense Department that we can actually rely upon and have confidence in what they tell us.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Hope so, too. More questions that haven't been answered. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you as always. We'll be right back. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts.