GOP panics as Democrat closes gap in red district special election

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode Title: GOP panics as Democrat closes gap in red district special election
Date: November 27, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Key Guests: Ken Delaney, Michael Feinberg, Hakeem Jeffries, Jeh Johnson, Afton Bain

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on two major news events shaping the week:

1. Breaking News: Shooting of Two West Virginia National Guard Members Near the White House
   Jen Psaki leads an in-depth discussion on the incident, details known at broadcast time, the evolving investigation, and political reactions.

2. A Shocking Political Race: A Democrat Closes the Gap in a Deeply Red Tennessee District
   The episode features an interview with Tennessee Democratic candidate Afton Bain, exploring her unexpectedly competitive bid in a district Donald Trump won by 22 points.

The show stitches together expert analysis, real-time updates, and reflections on the intersection of security, politics, and social tensions, all while maintaining a focus on facts and reasoned discussion.

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Segment 1: The D.C. National Guard Shooting

Timestamps: 01:00–12:30, 25:23–36:18

Key Developments in the Attack

• Timeline and Details ([01:00–03:54])

  • At 2:15 p.m. local time, a lone gunman identified as Rahmounullah Lockhinwal, a 29-year-old Afghan national, ambushed two West Virginia National Guard members near the White House.
  • The guards returned fire. Both guards remain in critical (one, grave) condition.
  • The suspect, subdued and apprehended by law enforcement and National Guard, is in custody. Motive is unknown.

• Immediate Federal Response ([03:31–03:54])

  • Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth announced that President Trump ordered 500 additional National Guard members into D.C.

    “It will not stand. … This will only stiffen our resolve to ensure that we make Washington, D.C. safe and beautiful.” – Michael Feinberg relaying Trump's order ([03:31])

Investigation & Analysis

• Guest: Ken Delaney, Justice and Intelligence Correspondent ([04:48–06:36])

  • Confirms that the suspect entered the US in 2021 via the Biden administration’s Operation Allies Welcome.
  • Notes open questions on the suspect’s subsequent asylum process, but urges caution—“we have not confirmed these reports.”
  • FBI’s terrorism unit leads the investigation, searching the suspect’s digital life and contacts.

    “As soon as the FBI concluded that this was a targeted attack on uniformed members of the armed services, they took over the investigation from D.C. police…” – Ken Delaney ([06:04])

• Guest: Michael Feinberg, Former FBI Assistant Special Agent ([07:09–10:45])

  • Outlines standard investigation procedures, including interviewing associates, swearing out search warrants for devices, and analyzing motive.

    “I’d be incredibly wary of imposing any narrative or motivation on this event at this point… We simply have no idea.” – Michael Feinberg ([08:36])

  • Notes concern that federal law enforcement attention is stretched by immigration tasks, reducing focus on security threats.

• Law Enforcement Staffing Concerns ([10:45–11:55])

  • Feinberg worries about the reassignment of task forces from national security to immigration:

    “A large proportion of the federal law enforcement community that is normally focused on things like this has been moved to immigration roundup efforts. There simply aren’t the same number of people working national security threats as there were before January 20th.” ([11:31])

Updates and Notable Quotes

• Delaney: Guard members remain in critical and grave conditions, no further update ([10:05]).
• Jen Psaki emphasizes the importance of not jumping to conclusions about motive and national security categorization ([08:16]).

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Segment 2: Political and Policy Response

Timestamps: 13:55–23:31

Hakeem Jeffries Interview: Perspectives & Reactions

• On the Attack ([13:55–16:22])

  “It’s a terrible tragedy, and we certainly are praying for the recovery … These are reasonable questions that the American people deserve answers to.” – Hakeem Jeffries ([14:28, 17:02])

  • Jeffries highlights questions about the shooter’s motivation, weapon acquisition, potential accomplices, and law enforcement protection steps.

• On Trump Administration Actions ([17:02–17:45])

  • Trump administration seeks a stay after a federal court ruled Guard deployment in D.C. illegal, and ordered 500 more Guardsmen.
  • Jeffries: Actions must be justified with an overarching public safety strategy.

• On Health Care & ACA Tax Credits ([17:45–21:26])

  • Jeffries blasts the “devastating Republican health care crisis.”

    “We're in the middle of a devastating Republican health care crisis that is threatening the safety and well-being of tens of millions of Americans in a year where they've already enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history.” ([18:31])

  • Notes that Democrats are a handful of signatures away from forcing a vote to extend ACA tax credits (“discharge petition”), argues urgency ahead of December 31 expiration.

• On Republican Disarray & Congressional Prospects ([21:26–23:10])

  • Acknowledges “GOP civil war” and potential for Democrats to retake House control before the midterms if more prominent Republican resignations follow.

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Segment 3: Analysis with Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson

Timestamps: 25:23–36:18

Immediate Reactions to the Shooting

• Lessons on Information and Motive ([27:55–30:04])

  • Cautions against early misinformation (“so much of it can be false”).
  • Emphasizes that vetting is critical but one individual should not define all refugees.

    “A deranged shooter like today’s assailant does not reflect this vast number of thousands of people [welcomed refugees]. Let’s remember that.” – Jeh Johnson ([31:45])

  • Points to the prevalence of guns as the through-line in high-profile violent incidents.

• On Trump’s Remarks and Potential Blowback ([30:04–32:21])

  • Psaki calls Trump’s call for re-examining all Afghan refugees “racist, xenophobic… and dangerous.”
  • Johnson warns about xenophobia and highlights strong vetting of Afghan and Syrian refugees:

    “There are many communities…who are welcoming of immigrants…They become productive members…A deranged shooter … does not reflect this vast number...” ([31:37])

• On National Guard Surge in D.C. ([32:21–34:26])

  • Johnson calls the 500-troop surge “knee-jerk,” questions its efficacy, and points out historical reluctance for military presence in civilian cities.

    “If I were asked to deploy an additional 500 Guard, the question I'd be asking is, well, how will [they]…make a difference to a deranged shooter who's determined to take down somebody in uniform?” ([32:43])

• On Law and Congressional Authority ([34:26–36:10])

  • Dismisses court-martial threats to Congress members for public statements as baseless and protected by law:

    “They were exercising their First Amendment right…Any use of law enforcement, either civilian or military, in my judgment, is abuse of that authority.” ([35:01])

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Segment 4: Surprising Shift in Tennessee’s 7th District

Timestamps: 36:19–44:01

Interview: Afton Bain, Democratic Candidate for Congress

• On the Race’s Competitiveness ([39:19–40:12])

  “This race is competitive because Tennesseans are fed up and we're done being sold out to the highest bidder…voters across the 7th district want leaders who will fight for their families, not the billionaire boys club who is backing my Republican opponent.” – Afton Bain ([39:19])

  • Running in a district Trump won by 22 points; new poll shows her trailing by just 2 points.

• On Messaging and Policy ([40:12–41:07])

  • Bain is unapologetically progressive, focusing on affordable groceries, utilities, and health care.
  • Claims bipartisan support for her efforts to end Tennessee’s grocery tax and her track record as a healthcare organizer.

    “I've just been on the campaign trail talking about cheap groceries, cheap utilities, you know, lowering rent costs. And it's resonating…” ([40:34])

• On Voter Resonance with Epstein Scandal ([41:07–42:31])

  • Campaigning on accountability and rule of law, referencing local officials’ scandals and the national Epstein file outrage:

    “There are two systems. There is one for the wealthy and well connected, and there's one for the rest of us.” ([41:47])

• Strategy for Flipping Support ([42:31–43:27])

  • Mobilizing Democrats, expanding the electorate with young and new voters, and convincing independents and even Trump supporters unsettled by cost of living and dysfunction in Washington.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Reporting & Misinformation:

  “In the immediate aftermath of a crisis…the push to get information out…so much of what we hear in the first minutes is wildly inaccurate.”
  — Jeh Johnson ([28:01])

• On Law Enforcement Manpower:

  “There simply aren’t the same number of people working national security threats as there were before January 20th. And you know, a lot of us have been saying for a long time, at a certain point that's going to come back to bite us. I hope this is not that point.”
  — Michael Feinberg ([11:30])

• On Political Strategy in a Red District:

  “I need you to preserve the subsidies in the Affordable Care act and you will be the first Democrat I will ever vote for in my life.”
  — Afton Bain ([41:07])

• On Xenophobia in Response to Crime:

  “A deranged shooter like today’s assailant does not reflect this vast number of thousands of people…Let’s remember that.”
  — Jeh Johnson ([31:45])

• Sharp Condemnation of Trump’s Call for Vetting:

  “That’s obviously an incredibly irresponsible and just racist, xenophobic, all of the things thing to say, but it’s dangerous too.”
  — Jen Psaki ([27:55])

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• 01:00–03:54 — D.C. shooting rundown and initial federal response
• 04:48–10:45 — Investigation details, law enforcement perspectives
• 13:55–23:31 — Hakeem Jeffries on attack, policy, and House politics
• 25:23–36:18 — Full segment with Jeh Johnson on investigation and policy
• 36:19–44:01 — The Tennessee special election, Afton Bain interview

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Episode Tone & Style

Jen Psaki maintains urgency, empathy, and rigorous attention to detail throughout—insisting on careful fact-checking, deferring speculation, and pushing guests for practical solutions and political accountability. The interviews are candid and unvarnished, letting each voice—from officials to activists—explain their experiences and anxieties.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode provides a sober, thorough look at both a major national security incident and the unexpectedly competitive political landscape. You'll hear expert breakdowns, clear-eyed warnings about misinformation, a defense of refugee communities, and an on-the-ground view of how progressive Democrats are challenging the GOP in deep red America.

Transcript

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[Jen Psaki]

We have a lot to get to tonight. We are also, as I just mentioned, going to continue very closely following the shooting of two members of the National Guard today in the heart of our nation's capital. And if anything happens, if we get any new developments, we will bring them to you immediately. But I just want to start by giving you just a sense of everything we know as of right this moment. According to the D.C. metro Police, at around 2:15 local time, a suspect came around the corner of 17th street and I Street, just about two blocks from the White House, and witnesses told the Washington Post that they heard two or three gunshots followed by a pause and then more shots. The D.C. police say the attack appears to have been carried out by a lone gunman who ambushed two members of the West Virginia National Guard while they were patrolling the area. The Guard members then returned fire. Officials are calling it a targeted attack. Now, I should warn you that some of the images we are about to show are quite graphic. So if you would like to look away, I just want to give you a little bit of a warning right now. Now, as of tonight, the suspected gunman, who has been identified as Rahmounullah Lockhinwal, a 29 year old Afghan national, is in custody. But authorities have still not said anything publicly about a motive and that can sometimes take some time. We're going to talk to some guests about that in a moment. The suspect was subdued and apprehended by other members of the National Guard along with law enforcement who were in the vicinity of the attack. And the two members of the National Guard who were tragically sh have been hospitalized and remain in critical condition at this time. A video from the aftermath of the shooting appears to show a team of first responders doing chest compressions on one of those National Guard members while another team member cares for the other. And just to show you just how close this shooting was to the heart of D.C. again, just blocks from the White House, one of those National Guard members was taken in an ambulance and transported to the National Mall, where they were then medevaced to a trauma center. All of this unfolded so close to the White House that it briefly placed a lockdown on the whole area, along with the Treasury Department next door. President Trump was not at the White House at the time, having left DC Last night actually to spend the Thanksgiving holiday at Mar a Lago in Palm Beach. And Likewise, Vice President J.D. vance was outside D.C. at the time of the shooting as well. Now, in response to today's attack, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth announced that President Trump has ordered another 500 Guard members into D.C.

[Michael Feinberg]

This happened just steps away from the White House. It will not stand. And that's why President Trump has asked me, and I will ask the secretary of the army to the national guard to add 500 additional troops, National Guardsmen to Washington, D.C. this will only stiffen our resolve to ensure that we make Washington, D.C. safe and beautiful.

[Jen Psaki]

Now, those 500 new National Guard members would come on top of the already 2,188 guard members already assigned to D.C. the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force is leading the investigation into today's shooting, working to determine if it was an act of terrorism. The Secret Service is also looking into whether the shooter intended to target the White House itself or anyone under the Secret Service's protection. But as of now, there is still a lot we don't know. The investigation is really just beginning. And again, we'll bring you anything we learn during the next hour to update you. But joining me now to discuss all of this is Ms. Now justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney and former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI, Michael Feinberg. Ken, let me just start with you. You've been covering this all very, very closely. Tell me, is there anything that I missed there about where the investigation stands right now or any updates that you've had from your sources?

[Ken Delaney]

There's one new piece of information, Jen, and the New York Times is reporting. And Ms. Now is confirmed. Mark Santilla that this 29 year old Afghan entered the country in 2021 through a Biden administration program called Operation Allies welcome, which accepted around 90,000 Afghans. And people may remember it was kind of a furious operation at the end of the, at the conclusion of America's involvement in Afghanistan, where we were trying to give sort of rescue some of the people that had helped the United States cause or Afghans who were in danger. And there was a lot of vetting that took very quickly and this person was admitted into the country at that time. Now, there are also reports, we have not confirmed these reports, that he then later applied for asylum last year and was granted asylum by the Trump administration this year. Again, Mississippi now has not confirmed those reports. But in fairness, I want to offer the full context for our viewers. And so that, of course, is one piece of the puzzle here as investigators try to seek out what the motive is. And we don't know what the motive is, but obviously thoughts are of course turning to was this some form of Islamic extremist terrorism? That's not without precedent in these kinds of situations. That's exactly what investigators are looking into right now. As soon as the FBI concluded that this was a targeted attack on uniformed members of the armed services, they took over the investigation from D.C. police worked to identify the suspect. And they now no doubt are going through his digital footprint, his social media accounts, trying to interview relatives, trying to piece together everything they can learn about this man's life while he was in the United States, his movements before the attack, where he got the weapon. All those questions at the moment are unanswered.

[Jeh Johnson]

Jen.

[Jen Psaki]

Michael, let me turn to you on this because anytime there's a tragedy like this, there's always this desire for the motive to be known immediately and for all the information to be clear immediately. And it typically takes much longer than that. It feels significant. We know the name. There's already a lot of conspiracy swirling online about this from many sides. Share with us a little bit about what you expect is happening within law enforcement right now to determine the motive and give us a little expectation setting on how long that could take.

[Michael Feinberg]

So what law enforcement is going to be doing right now to determine the motive is, number one, interviewing every single person they can identify who is in regular contact with, with the subject, particularly recently, with whom he may have spoken about his plans or just about his beliefs in general. There will be other teams of agents and analysts, agents mainly, swearing out warrants to obtain the individual's toll records, which are the records of whom he called on his phone and who called him. The results of those will then be turned over to analysts for processing. There will be warrants sworn out to get the contents of his hard drives, any servers, his email accounts. And I don't want to say they're building a psychological profile because it's a little more quotidian than that. But what they're going to be looking for is any indicia whatsoever of beliefs he may have had or something that may have happened to him that would serve as a catalyst for him to do this.

[Jen Psaki]

There were, and kind of alluded to this because of his background. There will be jumps to conclusions about his motivation. And there are. I don't know if there's been a conclusion on this, on whether this is a terrorism investigation or not, but tell us a little bit about what bar needs to be met in order for it to be and what they're looking at in that regard.

[Michael Feinberg]

Well, calling it a terrorism investigation is largely just a label. There are a few more tools you can use within the national security sphere than there are in the straight criminal sphere. But whether they're calling this an assassination investigation or terrorism investigation or an assault on a federal officer investigation, these really are just labels. It's not going to affect the actual processes that much. You know, I'd be. I'd be incredibly wary of imposing any narrative or motivation on this event at this point. It's entirely possible, as Ken alluded to, that this individual has Islamist sympathies and that was the motivation. It's also possible he fled a country as Islamists were taking back over and is now terrified he might now be deported to live under them. We simply have no idea at this point. And it would be folly for law enforcement or for its political overlords to try and make those intuitive leaps at this point.

[Jen Psaki]

We don't know any of that. And I think that's so important to remind people of out there. Ken, I know you're always getting new information. I mean, one of the things we've all been wondering about is, of course, the status of these two National Guard members who were shot. I don't know if you. You've heard anything new, learned anything new about their status.

[Ken Delaney]

I have not, Jen. All we've heard is that they are in critical condition one. It's been described as grave condition, fighting for their lives. But we have not gotten an update in the last hour or so.

[Jen Psaki]

Michael, let me ask you kind of a broader question. I mean, I think a lot of people watching this, this happened right in the heart of D.C. there are a lot of cities out there that also have National Guard. There's heightened tensions across the country, unquestionably right in law enforcement right now. How are you looking at protections and steps to take in order to prevent copycats or other other events like this from happening in other cities or other parts of the country?

[Michael Feinberg]

Well, hopefully the FBI and its partners at both the federal, state and local levels, we hope they're firing at all cylinders and they're maintaining robust source networks in any communities or groups that may be inclined to act violently, that they are monitoring social media to see whether anybody is sending up any forewarnings of this sort of behavior. And, you know, they're working with intelligence community partners who try and get the same information overseas and they all connect the dots. The worry I have is that such a large proportion of the federal law enforcement community that is normally focused on things like this has been moved to immigration roundup efforts. There simply aren't the same number of people working national security threats as there were before January 20th. And you know, a lot of us have been saying for a long time at a certain point that's going to come back to bite us. I hope this is not that point.

[Jen Psaki]

I think we all hope this is not that point. But that's such an important reminder about the importance of having law enforcement fully staffed around the country. Kendallinian, thank you for all your reporting. Tirelessly. Let us know if you find anything in the next 38 minutes here. 48 minutes. And Michael Feinberg, thank you as always for helping explain all this to all of us. All right, we've got to sneak in a very quick break, but Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries is standing by. There's a lot to ask him about tonight and we'll try to cover as much ground as we can with leader Jeffries. We're going to talk to him when we come back.

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[Jen Psaki]

Welcome back. And joining me now is House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Leader Jeffries, it's great to see you. Thank you for taking the time tonight. I just want to start by asking you about this shooting today, of course, in Washington. It's of course, the day before Thanksgiving. These two National Guard members were away from their homes in West Virginia following orders and serving their country when they were shot today in Washington. I know you put out a statement earlier, but what has been we've learned a lot over the last couple of hours. What's been going through your head today as you've been digesting all of this news?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, it's a terrible tragedy and we certainly are praying for the recovery and the well being of these two patriotic National Guards members, as well as standing with not just them but their families and their communities on the eve of Thanksgiving. Also, now that we have a shooter who's not just in custody and we're thankful for the work of local law enforcement in swiftly apprehending an individual. But now we need to begin to understand in the context of the investigation what happened, why it happened, and how we can take steps to prevent this from ever happening again.

[Jen Psaki]

There's a lot. I mean, as you mentioned, the suspect is in custody. He's been identified as a 29 year old Afghan national. The mayor of D.C. has said this was a targeted attack and the FBI has announced they're going to investigate as a possible act of terrorism. I was just talking with my prior guests about this. You mentioned some of the questions you have about what happened. Why? What else are you hoping to learn as this investigation unfolds over the next hours and days?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, we need to know what inspired the shooter, how he got access to the weapon that was used, whether the shooter acted alone or whether it was in concert with other individuals, either foreign or domestic. And these are naturally questions that are going to have to be answered by a thorough law enforcement investigation. And of course, we need the suspect prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And then as we move forward, we need to think about how we can prevent this type of violent act from ever occurring again as it relates to both the National Guard, but of course, how we can protect the men and women of law enforcement who protect and serve communities all across the country on a daily basis, week after week, month after year, year, month after month, year after year.

[Jen Psaki]

I should mention that the president is addressing the shooting right now. We'll play some of that in a moment, depending on what he says. But the Trump administration has already tonight requested a stay of a federal judge's ruling last week that the deployment of the national guard in D.C. is illegal. And also, as you well know, Secretary Hegseth also announced that Trump has ordered 500 additional National Guard troops to D.C. joining the 2020, 200 already. Obviously, what has happened today is an incredible tragedy with these two National Guardsmen. But this is a city you spend a great deal of time in. What do you make of those two actions just hours after this shooting?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, I think the Trump administration is going to have to justify to the American people why these actions are being taken as part of the broader effort to deploy National Guard troops all across the country. These are reasonable questions that the American people deserve answers to, not simply in the context of the actions that Donald Trump and the secretary of defense have taken today, but generally in terms of understanding what their overall public safety strategy may be in a country where so many Americans understandably have concluded that things are moving in the wrong direction over the last year or so and that we've got to find a better path forward.

[Jen Psaki]

Let me ask you about one of those areas. And I know this is on the minds of people. A lot of things are as they head into Thanksgiving and the holidays, and that is, of course, the cost of health care and the expiration that is going to be happening in just six weeks of these ACA tax credits. It's been, I mean, a bit of a whipsaw whirlwind this week. I don't know how you feel with Donald Trump saying he was in favor of extending those tax credits. It seemed like he backtracked after Republicans said he shouldn't. Even though they're off politically. I know there's a lot of things happening right now, including more than around 200 or more than 200 signatures for this discharge petition. But what do you see as a path here, either with Republicans, with a lot of them, or with a smaller number, to extend these tax credits?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, here's the bottom line. We're in the middle of a devastating Republican health care crisis that is threatening the safety and the well being of tens of millions of Americans in a year where they've already enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history. Hospitals and nursing homes and community based health centers are closing all throughout America. We know that because of the Republican refusal to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits, people all across the country in the middle of this holiday season are about to experience dramatically increased health care premiums. In some cases, those health insurance costs are going to increase by $1,000 or $2,000 per month if there's a failure to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits because it's a program that serves working class Americans, middle class Americans and everyday Americans all across the country, including in rural America. And for some reason, Republicans refuse to to do what is necessary to protect the health care of the American people. And so clearly the answers aren't going to come from the President. The answers aren't going to come from House Republican leaders who've been missing in action from day one. It's going to take Democrats compelling just a handful of people on the other side of the aisle to do the right thing so we can extend these Affordable Care act tax credits. The clock is ticking. We only have to December 31st just.

[Jen Psaki]

To dig into that further. I mean, you had just last week. It feels like a long time ago. But the discharge petition moved forward almost almost unanimously in the House. Only one person voted against it on the floor. You've said you have the votes. You think you have the votes to do a similar tactic, a discharge petition on these health care tax credits? How close are you? And is that something that we could be looking at even the week after Thanksgiving?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, absolutely. As soon as we return to Washington, we're going to continue to press our case. We've introduced, of course, as you referenced, this discharge petition that now has north of 200 signatures. We'll only need a handful of House Republicans at the end of the day to join us. And we can extend the Affordable Care act tax credits for three years. We're pressing for a three year extension so we can give working class Americans the same level of certainty that Republicans just gave to their billionaire donors when they passed the one big ugly bill and made tax credits, tax breaks for their billionaire donors, permanent and now many of my Republican colleagues can't find a dime in order to help out everyday Americans. It's extraordinary. We're going to continue to press the case in the House. We're going to continue to work with Leader Schumer and Senate Democrats as they press the case in the Senate and do everything we can to get this done by the end of next month.

[Jen Psaki]

A lot of them are going to have tough races next year. Seems like voting against health care or making health care more expensive is a very dumb political move. But I'm not here to give them advice per se. Let me ask you about another thing that has been floating around this week. Obviously, a big story has been, I don't know if you've noticed, but the Republicans seem to be in a bit of disarray over there. And a lot, there's rumors and lots of reporting that a number of them are considering leaving Congress before the midterms over frustrations with Trump and with Mike Johnson that would obviously have a huge impact on a lot of people. Most specifically you. Are you preparing for the possibility that Democrats could be in the majority before the midterms?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, we certainly are working as hard as we can to make sure that we flip the three seats necessary next November to take back control of the House so we can begin the process of ending this national nightmare. But as you've indicated, there's a GOP civil war that's going on on the other side of the aisle. Donald Trump fighting with Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was his biggest supporter. Mike Johnson and John Thune fighting with each other. Nancy Mace, of course, fighting with every single person in the House Republican Conference. It's a mess over there. And it is our expectation that in the next few weeks, upon return from the Thanksgiving recession, you're going to see some reasonably high profile Republicans continue to announce that they're either not seeking reelection or resigning in the middle of the Congress. And if enough of that happens when we get back to full strength as Democrats, which will be 215, some interesting things could occur in this Congress in advance of the midterm elections.

[Jen Psaki]

We'll look forward to that. It feels like the time it's only a couple weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But what you're telling me is there could be votes for a discharge petition on health care. We'll see. And there could be more high profile resignations. Well, that seems like something we'll all look ahead to in December. Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, thank you so much and have a happy Thanksgiving.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Thank you Happy Thanksgiving to you and all your viewers.

[Ken Delaney]

All right.

[Jen Psaki]

Coming up, we will have much more on today's shooting of two National Guardsmen in Washington. We've been following that closely, including the Trump administration's plan to surge more troops into the city. And we're going to talk about it with the former DHS secretary Jeh Johnson when we come back.

[Ken Delaney]

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[Jen Psaki]

We are continuing to follow the latest developments involving today's shooting in Washington, D.C. and at this moment, the two National Guardsmen who were shot while patrolling near the White House are hospitalized in critical condition. And MsNow has reported, as I mentioned earlier in the show, that the suspect is of course in custody. He's been identified as a 29 year old Afghan national who entered the United states back in 2021 through a program that was set up after the fall of Kabul. Now, in the wake of this shooting, the White House did two notable things I just want to underline one more time. Just moments ago, Donald Trump confirmed that he's ordered 500 National Guard troops to be deployed to D.C. on top of the nearly 2,200 who are there now, who are here now, I should say, Since I'm in D.C. trump's Justice Department also filed an emergency appeal tonight to keep the national guard in D.C. after federal judge previously ruled their deployment illegal. There's a lot to talk about. I am so grateful our next guest could be here with us. Joining me now is the former Homeland Security Secretary under President Obama, Jeh Johnson. I'm so grateful you're here because I think right now there's so much information flying around, it's hard for people to make sense of what we know, what we don't know. And it's so important not to jump to conclusions. Let me start by asking you. I mean, the suspect we know is a 29 year old Afghan national who entered this country four years ago under Operation Welcome, a program, of course, that the Biden administration set up to bring Afghans to the US after the fall of Kabul. I was in the White House at the time and it was supported in a bipartisan manner. There was a lot of criticism of the withdrawal, but that program was supported in a bipartisan manner. Most importantly, this means he was vetted by US Law enforcement before being allowed in. I raise all of this because President Trump just spoke and I know you haven't seen it, I suspect you haven't seen it, but I just want to read one part of what he said. He said we must now reexamine every single alien presented our country from Afghanistan under Biden, and we must take all necessary measures to ensure the removal of any alien from any country who does not belong here add benefit to this country. And I wanted to share that because I want to ask you about just what we know now, what we don't know now. That's obviously an incredibly irresponsible and just racist, xenophobic, all of the things thing to say, but it's dangerous too. So tell us a little bit more about what we know, why it's important to wait for the information that we actually have available to us. As somebody who's overseen investigations like this.

[Jeh Johnson]

Let'S remember that this shooting happened just seven hours and 15 minutes ago.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah.

[Jeh Johnson]

And the lesson we have to relearn so often is in the immediate aftermath of a crisis, the and the push to get information out to the public as quickly as possible. So much of what we hear in the first minutes is wildly inaccurate. You know what the governor of West Virginia put out about how these two National Guard members died? Was completely false. They're struggling for life right now, but that was simply not true. Let's remember that these two Guard members have families back in West Virginia who were probably anxiously waiting for word about what was happening to their loved one in D.C. have to relearn this lesson over and over again to be so careful about what goes out in the immediate aftermath of a crisis, because so much of it can be false. Now, in terms of the actual shooter, we know he's an Afghan national and that he arrived in this country in 2021. That's about it. That's about all we know at this point. I suspect we'll know a lot more about motives through social media, through investigations, contact associates, people who know this individual, he's still alive. So often an individual in this circumstance is dead, but this person's alive. He'll face criminal prosecution. I suspect we're going to know a lot more about his motives in the hours and days ahead. Very, very quickly, Jen, the one consistent thing I see through today's shooting, through the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, through the assassination of Charlie Kirk, is the prevalence of guns in America in the hands of people who have no business and no responsibility with a dangerous weapon like this. That is the consistent thread throughout that we need to examine and we fail to examine.

[Jen Psaki]

Let me ask you about now. I think one of the concerns I have, I want to ask if you share is when you use language like the language the president used, you kind of put a target on people who are of Afghan backgrounds, you know, and there are. He's not the only group that he's identified in this post. He goes, he talks about people from Somalia as well. But right now, we're at such a heightened level of tensions. There's been a great deal of political violence of all kinds of violence. You mentioned guns, of course, but if you were advising cities or communities who are trying to prevent copycat attacks or other escalations like this, what would you advise them to do?

[Jeh Johnson]

Well, the prospect, the specter of a copycat is definitely real. Let's put aside nationality, how somebody arrives in this country. The prospect of a copycat is very real. You may recall 10 years ago, Jen, we were in the midst of resettling Syrian refugees in this country, and we went through a very, very extensive vetting process during the Obama administration. I'm pleased to say that the instances of violence by that population was minimal to zero because of the vetting that took place. So a lot of this does occur through careful vetting, and it's Also the case that there are many communities in this country who are welcoming of immigrants, of refugees, those who seek asylum in this country. We don't have to identify them. But in this country, there are a number of cities that have communities that embrace people from Afghanistan, from Syria, from Pakistan, from other places who are desperate for better. And they absorb themselves in the population. They become productive members of the community, taxpaying members of the community. And so a deranged shooter like today's assailant does not reflect this vast number of thousands of people. Let's remember that.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, it's important for people to remember that. Let me ask you about some other news we learned. Pete Hegseth announced this earlier and then President Trump just confirmed it. The plan to deploy 500 additional National Guard. This is in addition to the over 2000 National Guard who are already in the city of Washington. What do you make of that?

[Jeh Johnson]

Seven hours after the shooting, it feels knee jerk. If I were asked to deploy an additional 500 guard, the question I'd be asking is, well, how will 500 additional members of the National Guard on the streets of Washington D.C. at 17th and H make a difference to a deranged shooter who's determined to take down somebody in uniform? That's the question I'd be asking right now. I want to add that in general, we have laws against what we refer to as a posse comatitis military on the streets of American cities. And one of the reasons I think the military is so respected in this country is because we do try to keep, keep the military cabined to overseas conflicts. Now, when I was in office, I used to be concerned about a shooting or some sort of bomb in a very crowded place, like a place of transportation. When I commuted to New York City, I live in northern New Jersey. I passed very often through Port Authority bus terminal, 200,000 people a day. And I actually do take comfort in seeing members of the New York Guard there in the bus terminal. But under local authority and local command and control under the authority of the Port Authority, who knows what they're doing, how to properly deploy these people in crowded places like this. So there can be a role, a careful, subscribed role for the National Guard in places for public safety.

[Jen Psaki]

No question about it. While I have you, I haven't talked to you about this. I mean, there has been, as I'm sure you've seen, you know, there were six members of Congress who did a psa, basically stating what is law, which is that you do not need to, you should not abide by unlawful orders. You have served in many roles, including as the chief counsel right to the Defense Department as well as the Secretary of Homeland Security. The reaction has been the threat to court martial a senator. What have you made of all of that?

[Jeh Johnson]

That will go nowhere. These members of Congress were exercising their First Amendment right to speak out on an issue of national importance. They may have also been protected by the speech and debate clause of the U.S. constitution, which protects members of Congress from civil or criminal liability for the things that they say. Jen, There's a well developed body of law going back to the Nuremberg trials, Vietnam error, that members of the military are entitled and required to disobey orders that are patently illegal because you don't want to have people in the field having debates about what's legal and not. So it has to be patently or manifestly illegal, like torture, for example, or shooting somebody who has surrendered. But what these members of Congress were doing was exercising their First Amendment rights to say what they believed. And so any use of law enforcement, either civilian or military, in my judgment, is abuse of that authority.

[Jen Psaki]

Jeh Johnson, thank you so much for being here with us. Incredibly insightful thoughts on everything. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

[Jeh Johnson]

Thank you. You too.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay, coming up, we are just one week out from another Election Day in America. This is not one I expected we would be following so closely, but there's a special election in Tennessee next Tuesday. It's happening in a district that Donald Trump won by more than 20 points in 2024. But a new poll out just today showed the Democratic candidate in that race down by only two points. And that candidate's name is at the and she is trying to pull off the political shocker of the year. And she's going to join me here next. Neither the president nor the vice president were in Washington, D.C. today when two West Virginia National Guard members were shot just blocks from the White House. Trump was in Florida at the time of the attack and J.D. vance was visiting troops at Fort Campbell, which straddles the Kentucky Tennessee border. The Tennessee side of that air base also happens to be in the 7th congressional district, which just so happens to have a surprisingly competitive special election coming up next week. And I say it's surprisingly competitive because Donald Trump won this district by 22 points just a year ago. So after Republican Congressman Mark Green resigned from Congress last summer, the winner of the special GOP primary, Matt Van Allen, appeared to be well on his way to Washington. That is, until Afton Bain came along. The 36 year old Democratic state representative has spent years as an organizer in Tennessee, coming to prominence by leading the campaign to call for the resignation of a Republican state representative accused of sexually assaulting underage girls. And that included a 2019 incident with dramatic videos from a local Tennessee station of her being arrested at the state Capitol in Dragon out of the governor's office and state House as she called for his removal. You can see her there in the screen. And earlier this year, she began monitoring ICE agents and filming them as they patrolled in Nashville. She has run some memorable ads, including one involving a mechanical bull. And she has spent a lot of time on the trail talking about, of course, affordability. And all of this has helped her narrow the gap. Just look at the polls. I mean, remember how Donald Trump won this district by 22 points last year? Well, the latest poll by Emerson College shows the race between Bain and Van Epps to now be a close one. Bain has cut the lead to just two at 48 to 46 in a race where even a single digit loss could send a chill down Republican spines. It's now coming all down to the wire. It's coming up in just a week, too. Joining us alive is Afton Bain, Democratic nominee in the special election in Tennessee's seventh Congressional District. Okay. I mean, Donald Trump won your district by more than 20 points. Just a year ago, this would not have been a district that we would have been talking about, would have been focused on. And I just mentioned, I mean, according to a new poll, your race in that very same district is very, very close. So help us understand how you made this thing a toss up.

[Afton Bain]

Well, this race is competitive because Tennesseans are fed up and we're done being sold out to the highest bidder. And voters across the 7th district want leaders who will fight for their families and not the billionaire boys club who is backing my opponent, my Republican opponent.

[Jen Psaki]

I think the conventional wisdom I just showed part of it. You have this great ad where there's a mechanical bull, which is an example of this. But the conventional wisdom some Democrats might have or some analysts out there might have is that to win a red district like yours, a Democrat might have to tack to the right or at least tack to the middle. You have run unapologetically progressive. I mean, I've mentioned a bunch of things, but you've talked a lot about affordability. But why do you think that has worked in narrowing the gap and not sort of the more traditional go tack to the center approach?

[Afton Bain]

Well, as serving in the state legislature, I have organized around ending Tennessee's very regressive grocery tax for three years and have built a bipartisan coalition of those who want to lower taxes for working families. And this race, this campaign has been a continuation of that. And so I've just been on the campaign trail talking about cheap groceries, cheap utilities, you know, lowering rent costs. And it's resonating with so many folks across the district. I also got my start as a healthcare organizer, as you mentioned, during the 2017 Affordable Care act and Medicaid fights. And I have been trying to make health care more affordable for Tennesseans my entire organizing tenure. And so that's, that's really played out in the district as well, with Republicans, you know, calling me, emailing me, saying, I need you to preserve the subsidies in the Affordable Care act and you will be the first Democrat I will ever vote for in my life.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, that issue I was just speaking with Leader Jeffries about, it is one that Republicans, a lot of Republicans underestimate the political power of it. And your district is a good example of that I mentioned. I mean, your work before being elected as a state representative was parti mean you were pushing for the resignation of an elected official accused of sexually assaulting underage girls, which feels so chillingly relevant right now given everything with the Epstein files you have. Also there were outside groups running ads. I believe you also ran an ad about this issue as well. Have you heard from people in the district, even from Republicans, about. From people who connect with you on this issue in particular?

[Afton Bain]

Yeah, our polling showed that the Epstein files resonated. The release of the Epstein files resonated with voters across the district and across political parties because I think it's very clear to voters in the 7th district that there are two systems. There is one for the wealthy and well connected, and there's one for the rest of us. And those that have access get to cover their crimes. And so the video or the picture you showed of me was one of protesting a national speaker of the House that is federally charged with corruption. And so I have a track record always standing up to the wealth and well connected and ensuring that the voices of the marginalized are elevated.

[Jen Psaki]

When you narrow a gap like this in a poll, I mean, there are different ways to do it. You win over people who used to, who voted for Trump a year ago. You bring new people into the system. What is it here? Is it both? Is it one over the other?

[Afton Bain]

It's a great question. First, it's a mobilization race. I had the highest total voter turnout of any Democratic state representative in the 24th cycle. So you are trying to get out as many of your voters as possible. And we've seen record numbers in Nashville, which is where I live. Two, it's expanding the electorate. And this is a young congressional district. There are lots of young voters. There's lots of universities. And so we've had to organize young people to get to the polls. And then three, you obviously will, you know, I've been on the ground talking to Trump supporters as well as independents and trying to convince them that I'm the candidate. If you are upset with the cost of living and the chaos of Washington, I welcome you with open arms.

[Jen Psaki]

Afton Ben, I feel like I worked in politics for a long time because you love seeing people just, like, come from behind in races that people weren't betting on. I know you still have a lot people of work to do over the next week here, but thank you so much for coming on with us and for being out there, putting yourself out there. It's not easy to run for Congress. You got to raise a lot of money, talk to a lot of people and have a happy Thanksgiving in the meantime.

[Jeh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Afton Bain]

Thank you so much. The race is next Tuesday and you can always Google me. You'll find my information and would appreciate the support. A few dollars here and there goes a long way. Thanks so much.

[Jen Psaki]

Absolutely. Okay, we've got to sneak in a very quick break. We'll be right back. Before we go to end, I just wanted to take a moment to wish all of you a very happy Thanksgiving. I just cannot tell you how grateful we all are that you let us into your homes every night. We know you have every option in the world for where you get your news and how you get your news. And I just want to say thank you for choosing to be here with us. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNOW. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Welcome to Walgreens. Looking for a holiday gift?

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