Hillary Clinton makes fools of Republicans as 'gotcha' subpoena backfires

Summary

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The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Hillary Clinton makes fools of Republicans as 'gotcha' subpoena backfires
Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Featured Guests: Hillary Clinton, Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari (D-AZ), Congressman James Walkinshaw (D-VA), Congressman Jamie Raskin (D-MD), Andrew Bakaj (Chief Legal Counsel, Whistleblower Aid)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the closed-door testimony of Hillary Clinton before the House Oversight Committee, as part of an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes and associates. The hearing—demanded by Republicans—quickly became contentious over issues of transparency, rules violations, and the apparent lack of substantive inquiry. Jen Psaki, along with congressional guests and expert voices, discusses the political motivations, what actually unfolded during the deposition, and broader questions about accountability in the ongoing Epstein, Trump, and transparency scandals. The episode closes with coverage of overlapping controversies: attempts to change election law by executive order, antitrust concerns in media consolidation, and a whistleblower complaint over Trump administration conduct.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Clinton Deposition: "A Clown Show"

[00:50–03:22] Setting the Stage & Rules Violations

• Hillary Clinton's testimony was initially scheduled as a closed-door deposition, against her own request for a public hearing “[We had asked for that. We think it would have been better for the committee.]” — Hillary Clinton, [03:22].
• Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert violated House rules by leaking a photo from inside the deposition, which prompted Clinton to demand the hearing be opened to the press. Chairman Comer refused, despite Republican rhetoric about "transparency."
  • Notable quote from Chairman Comer prior to the deposition: “I've always believed that sunshine is the best disinfectant...We are committed to accountability, transparency and justice for the American people and for the survivors.” — Chairman James Comer, [01:29].

[03:22–04:42] Hillary Clinton Responds

• Clinton describes the experience as “repetitive,” stating, “I don't know how many times I had to say I did not know Jeffrey Epstein. I never went to his island. I never went to his homes. I never went to his offices. It then got, at the end quite unusual because I started being asked about UFOs and a series of questions about Pizzagate, one of the most vile bogus conspiracy theories...” — Hillary Clinton, [03:22].
• Clinton reiterates her lack of connection to Epstein or any relevant knowledge about his finances.

[06:24] Democratic Members’ Reaction

• Congresswoman Ansari: “It was a clown show. We did not learn anything new...We have always been supportive of bringing anyone forward who may have information, but it was clear today that the Secretary did not have information to provide.”
• Congressman Walkinshaw notes the partisan and performative nature of the Republican attendance: “They look like an overdressed group headed to Disney World...Their opportunity to fulfill their long fever dream of locking up Hillary Clinton. And they got absolutely nothing. Because the truth is, she never met Jeffrey Epstein...”

2. Investigation Obstruction & Allegations of Cover-Up

[08:27–10:30] Pressures and Political Selectiveness

• Discussion of public and political pressure regarding the handling and release of Epstein files, particularly new reports of DOJ withholding sex abuse allegations against Trump:
  • Ansari: “The reporting that came out this week...demonstrated very clearly that the DOJ literally withheld...materials from the FBI as it pertains to allegations against the president from a minor...I think that as more and more information continues to come out, it's going to become impossible for Republicans to ignore this.” — [08:27].
• Walkinshaw highlights bipartisan public concern and the disconnect between Congressional Republicans and their own base: “[This is] something I hear about from Democrats, Independents and a lot of Republicans. So Congressional Republicans are out of step with their own base. Donald Trump is out of step with his own base...” — [09:50].

[10:40–11:57] Withholding Evidence

• Only half the files have been released, and even within those, critical information appears missing or redacted.
• Ansari: “...the COVID up that is underway...every day there's more information...this is so damning...that's why I've been calling for Pam Bondi's impeachment.”

[11:57–12:43] Known Unknowns in Withheld Testimony

• Walkinshaw recalls Rumsfeld's “known unknowns and unknown unknowns,” referencing missing victim statements that have not been turned over, as well as recent revelations regarding Trump.

3. The Real Work of the Investigation: Priorities & Hypocrisy

[13:34–14:49] Victims and Political Theater

• Ansari: “They have been deeply, deeply disrespectful...the victims...have worked really hard to make this bipartisan...Republicans will...feign empathy and...say there's nothing more they can do. And it is such a slap in the face...if they've taken the time to come out here, they also kind of need something to show for it...asking the same questions over and over again...just embarrassing.”

[14:49–15:15] Les Wexner's Deposition

• Walkinshaw states the only productive deposition was that of Les Wexner (Epstein’s main financial backer), where a major revelation was that Wexner was never interviewed by the FBI or DOJ — “an astounding revelation.”

[15:15–17:45] Selective Subpoenas and Trump Protection

• The committee has dragged its feet on subpoenas for Trump affiliates like Howard Lutnick, whose relationship with Epstein has been downplayed or denied.
• Walkinshaw: “Trump can’t throw Lutnick overboard because Lutnick has done precisely what Trump did...So he has to continue to protect him. I don’t think Chairman Comer will have the courage to overcome that.”

4. Interview with Congressman Jamie Raskin: The Cover-Up & Trump’s Legal Risks

[19:36–20:45] Clinton Calls Out the Hearing

• Clinton addresses the value of public transparency and calls out the hearing’s wasted hours:
  “I thought it was very repetitive. I thought that they asked literally the same questions over and over again. If they are going to fulfill their responsibilities...they could have spent the day more productively.” — Hillary Clinton, [20:14].

[21:57–24:48] DOJ Cover-Up & Political Fallout

• Raskin asserts outright that DOJ, under Trump, is engaged in “a full blown cover up” for Epstein’s co-conspirators and for Trump:
  “Remember, they got into office in January, and the very first thing that Attorney General Bondi did was to fire the lead prosecutor in the Epstein case, Maureen Comey...take the entire file and declare the investigation over...They have been doing everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since they got in.” — Jamie Raskin, [21:57].
• “You are not gonna tell me that you're running a global child sex trafficking ring...and there are only two people who committed crimes, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I mean, that's just farcical. That's absurd.” — Jamie Raskin, [24:30].

[24:48–25:29] Political Stakes and Party Contrasts

• Raskin: “We’ve got one party ...stand[ing] up for truth and justice...Another party which says that the government is an instrument for...the protection of the crimes of the most powerful people in the country...That is a pretty dramatic contrast.”

5. Trump’s Anti-Democratic Moves & Election Interference

[28:45–33:08] Attempted Executive Orders to Alter Elections

• New reports: Trump is exploring executive actions to require citizenship proof and voter ID nationwide; parallel draft orders allege Chinese interference as grounds for a national emergency to halt mail ballots — all deeply questionable under law.
• Raskin: “You can't completely count on the Roberts courts...everything we're hearing about today is an echo of what took place in 2020...They're just going to try to shrink and reduce the electorate and somehow rig the electoral result.” — Jamie Raskin, [31:09].
• The courts have blocked similar efforts before; public and legal institutions must remain vigilant.

[33:08–35:25] Constitutional Limits

• Raskin notes that the president has "no role at all in administering midterm elections...he's stuffed his administration with complete cronies...so this is why we do need the Supreme Court to stand up...”

6. Antitrust and Corporate Consolidation

[35:25–36:52] Media Mergers and Trump-Era Corruption

• Raskin discusses the pending Paramount/Skydance/Warner Brothers merger and how it exemplifies the “pay to play” corruption that defines much of the current administration’s antitrust policy: “We've got to get back to the rule of law...meaningful antitrust law enforcement for the sake of consumers, for the sake of democracy.”

7. Kushner, Iran, and a Whistleblower Complaint

[36:52–44:42] Executive Privilege & Intelligence Oversight

• Jen Psaki recaps reporting that Jared Kushner, acting as a Trump administration envoy, is embroiled in whistleblower scandal over an intelligence intercept involving Iran. Trump’s DNI (Tulsi Gabbard) is accused of blocking Congress from seeing this information, invoking executive privilege.
• Andrew Bakaj (Whistleblower Aid): “Our client has a right to go to Congress by law...what’s really problematic here...is that Tulsi Gabbard is the subject of this complaint...and she is the one who’s blocking its transmittal to Congress in its totality.” [40:26–41:44]
• Bakaj emphasizes the chilling effect this has on future whistleblowers and reiterates the need for persistent Congressional oversight.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Hillary Clinton, expressing frustration:
  “I don't know how many times I had to say I did not know Jeffrey Epstein. I never went to his island. I never went to his homes. I never went to his offices...I started being asked about UFOs and a series of questions about Pizzagate, one of the most vile bogus conspiracy theories that was propagated on the Internet.” [03:22]
• Congresswoman Ansari, dismissing the proceedings:
  “It was a clown show. We did not learn anything new. The Secretary repeated...she didn't know Jeffrey Epstein.” [06:24]
• Congressman Walkinshaw, on GOP motivations:
  “They were so happy about this hearing because it was their opportunity to fulfill their long fever dream of locking up Hillary Clinton. And they got absolutely nothing.” [07:14]
• Jamie Raskin, on the cover-up:
  “We've known for weeks, if not months, that they are engaged in a full blown cover up.” [21:57]
• Raskin, on Republican hypocrisy:
  “You are not gonna tell me that you're running a global child sex trafficking ring...and there are only two people who committed crimes, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I mean, that's just farcical. That's absurd.” [24:30]
• Andrew Bakaj, on whistleblower rights:
  “Our client has a right to go to Congress by law...it makes absolutely no sense to me...” [40:26, 42:03]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:50] — Episode begins, context of Clinton deposition and rules violation.
• [03:22] — Hillary Clinton’s statement to the press post-deposition.
• [06:24] — Congresswoman Ansari and Congressman Walkinshaw react to “clown show” hearing.
• [08:27] — Ansari on public pressure, DOJ Trump cover-up, and bipartisan outrage.
• [10:40] — Ongoing concealment of Epstein files and calls for DOJ accountability.
• [14:49] — Importance of Les Wexner’s testimony vs. focus on Clinton.
• [15:15] — Discussion on subpoenaing Trump insiders like Howard Lutnick.
• [20:14] — Clinton: “Not going to do it again...could have spent the day more productively.”
• [21:57] — Jamie Raskin details the DOJ cover-up under Trump.
• [24:48] — Raskin on the political battle over victim justice and transparency.
• [28:45] — Coverage of Trump’s new anti-voting executive order plans.
• [31:09] — Raskin analyzes legal backstops against Trump’s maneuvers.
• [33:08] — Constitutional explanation of president’s lack of role in election administration.
• [35:25] — Raskin critiques current state of antitrust and corporate influence.
• [39:24] — Whistleblower counsel Andrew Bakaj discusses efforts to get intelligence to Congress.

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Episode Tone and Language

• Blunt, acerbic, and often incredulous about congressional process and Republican behavior.
• Speakers use sarcasm (“overdressed group headed to Disney World”) and direct critiques (“It was a clown show”; “I don’t think Chairman Comer is very smart”).
• Consistent defense of victim rights, due process, and transparency, coupled with sharp criticism of efforts to use investigations for political theater.

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Takeaway

This episode exposes the partisan theater behind the Clinton deposition, while highlighting ongoing battles over transparency, accountability, and the rule of law in the wake of the Epstein, Trump, and broader political scandals. The core message: Investigations must be genuine, bipartisan, and survivor-centered—not weaponized for political gain. And, as new scandals erupt (cover-ups, election-rigging, whistleblower suppression), institutional integrity, vigilance, and robust oversight are more urgent than ever.

Transcript

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

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[MSNow Host]

former first lady and Secretary of State gave closed door testimony as part of an investigation seeking justice for hundreds of women victimized by a notorious child sex trafficker. And the first big news we got out of that deposition was that it had been abruptly paused for context here. Today's deposition comes after months of back and forth between the Clintons and the Republican controlled committee about whether they would testify and how Hillary Clinton had specifically asked for an open hearing where she could answer questions publicly with live cameras rolling. But the committee's Republican chairman, James Comer, insisted that she testify privately behind closed doors. And that was how Secretary Clinton's deposition had been proceeding right up until the moment when Republican Congresswoman Lauren Boebert snapped this photo from inside the room, leaked it to a right wing influencer who quickly shared it online. That photo appears to have violated House rules on disseminating information from closed door depositions. And since it was Republicans who insisted on a closed door testimony in the first place, well, Clinton wanted answers. A source tells msNow that after learning about the photo, Clinton paused the hearing and asked for the press to be let in. Chairman Comer refused, and his choice is notable given that House Republicans have spent months telling us that their number one goal in this Epstein investigation is transparency. Here was Oversight Chairman James Comer on the day the House passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act. I've always believed that sunshine is the best disinfectant. For years, the American people have demanded transparency about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's horrific crimes. We are committed to accountability, transparency and justice for the American people and for the survivors.

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

I support full transparency.

[MSNow Host]

I support full transparency. And yet, despite repeated attempts to hold a transparent hearing before the American public, Republicans repeatedly declined, choosing instead to keep these hearings behind closed doors so that they could pick and choose what the American people would see from this deposition, which, as you'll recall, is also what the Judiciary Committee did when they invited Jack Smith to testify about his investigation into Donald Trump. After today's deposition, Secretary Clinton decided that she would take it upon herself to speak to the press and let them know what exactly took place in that deposition.

[Hillary Clinton]

It was disappointing that they refused to hold a public hearing. So I wouldn't have to be out here characterizing it for you. You could have seen it for yourself. We had asked for that. We think it would have been better for the committee. We had a bit of a challenge in the beginning because we had agreed upon rules based on the fact it was going to be a closed hearing at their demand. And one of the members violated that rule, which was very upsetting because it suggested that they might violate other of our agreements. And we returned to answer questions repetitively, literally, over and over again. I don't know how many times I had to say I did not know Jeffrey Epstein. I never went to his island. I never went to his homes. I never went to his offices. It then got, at the end quite unusual because I started being asked about UFOs and a series of questions about Pizzagate, one of the most vile bogus conspiracy theories that was propagated on the Internet.

[MSNow Host]

UFOs and the pizzagate conspiracy. That is how Republicans chose to spend their time in this hearing. To be fair, maybe those were the most relevant areas to probe. After all, Hillary Clinton is not exactly a central figure in the Epstein story. Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, did know Jeffrey Epstein flew on his plane and appears in the files photographed with women. He has said repeatedly he knew nothing about Epstein's crimes and cut him off. But Hillary Clinton does not appear to have had a relationship with Epstein. And while her name does appear numerous times in the files, it mostly shows up in the context of Epstein discussing her 2016 presidential campaign. As an observer this morning, Republicans claim that their questions for Clinton were intended in part to find out how Epstein accumulated so much wealth, something Hillary Clinton probably knew nothing about. But thanks to reporting from the New York Times and elsewhere, we already know that the biggest source of Epstein's wealth was Les Wexner, the billionaire Victoria's Secret tycoon, who literally paid Epstein hundreds of millions of dollars over the years and has denied any knowledge of what Epstein did with that money. And when this same committee deposed Les Wexner last week, none of the Republican Members seemed interested enough to even bother showing up. Instead, they sent aides in their place, while Democratic members of the committee took charge at every step of this investigation. Most Republicans have reminded us that they are only interested in the truth and in transparency and in accountability when it is politically convenient. Joining me now are two members of the House Oversight Committee who were in the room for that deposition with Hillary Clinton today. Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari of Arizona and Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia. It is good to have you both here today. What did you learn today about Jeffrey Epstein?

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

Oh, my gosh. Unfortunately, I said it earlier today, but it was a clown show. We did not learn anything new. The Secretary repeated what she had already put forward towards the committee, which is that she didn't know Jeffrey Epstein. She never flew on his plane, she never went to his island. And as she stated, she really just emphasized that over and over and over again. We learned nothing new about what we are actually looking at to understand, which is who else may or may not have been involved with Jeffrey Epstein's crimes, who may have enabled it or been part of perpetrating these crimes against children. So it was, I think, an absolute waste of resources. We have always been supportive of bringing anyone forward who may have information, but it was clear today that the Secretary did not have information to provide.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

I think I agree with all that. I think we learned that most of the Republicans in Congress, certainly on our committee, are not serious about this being a bipartisan investigation that gets to the facts and the truth. You mentioned Lauren Boebert releasing or sending that photo to a right wing influencer. The other thing I saw on their social media earlier today was as they were arriving to the hearing, they were taking these photos together, smiling gleeful, very excited. They look like a overdressed group headed to Disney World. They were so happy about this hearing because it was their opportunity to fulfill their long fever dream of locking up Hillary Clinton. And they thought this was the time they were really going to get her. And they got absolutely nothing. Because the truth is she never met Jeffrey Epstein, had no real relationship with Maxwell, never went to the island, and has no knowledge about his crimes that could help our investigation.

[MSNow Host]

Today you had Robert Garcia say that he hopes this sets a precedent. The fact that you have a former first lady, former Secretary of State, former president, all agreeing to a deposition that would of course, take Republicans agreeing that this sets a precedent. Can you give you a sense of what it's going to take to get your Republican colleagues there?

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

I think the public pressure will continue to mount. Americans are appalled by this. I mean, the fact that the Epstein files issue is the main issue. I mean, Trump is underwater more than anything else on this front because the COVID up is so clear and egregious. And the reporting that came out this week from the New York Times and NPR and that demonstrated very clearly that the Department of Justice literally withheld investigate investigative materials from the FBI as it pertains to allegations against the president from a minor or from a woman who was a minor at the time. This is going to change everything. I mean, this news just broke in the last 48 hours. I think that as more and more information continues to come out, it's going to become impossible for Republicans to ignore this. I saw this evening that some of the congresswomen who I will say I think are unfortunately some of the most theatrical ones when it comes to how they were approaching this deposition today. You had, I think, Anna Paulina Luna tonight tweeting that you should have the death penalty for anyone who is a child rapist. So it's very interesting that she is tweeting that, which is quite a bold stance. And you have very serious allegations against the president. So he should absolutely come forward in front of this committee. And it today did set a precedent for that.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

I don't know if you hear the same thing from your constituents, Yasmin, but in my district, this is something I hear about from Democrats, Independents and a lot of Republicans. So Congressional Republicans are out of step with their own base. Donald Trump is out of step with his own base. And, you know, I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is reflective of that, depending on the day. Congresswoman Mace and Boba are reflective of, of that. But if congressional Republicans continue to back up Donald Trump and his administration as they hide these files and especially the information Yasmin referred to this recently revealed information about this allegation against Donald Trump. They're going to have problems with their

[MSNow Host]

own base if they are, in fact, hiding these documents that we now have reporting about in the past 48 hours. What else are you concerned that they're hiding?

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

I mean, I think we've been concerned that they are hiding a lot. I mean, there are still millions of files that we, our understanding is we only have 50% of the files. And in what has been released, there's already such appalling, horrific information. So imagine what they have not released. I think that there's two parts to this investigation, right? It's an investigation into the horrific crimes, the child sex trafficking operation. Who, who else was a part of it, figuring out all of those details and making sure people are held accountable. The second part is the COVID up that is underway. And every day there's more information that comes out about the COVID up. And I think this is so damning. I think back a lot to the fact that Kash Patel went in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee and testified under oath that nobody else was involved in the child sex trafficking and nobody else committed the crimes. When the interviews that we know the Department of Justice has withheld from us came from the FBI, there were multiple interviews that the FBI conducted with this individual who's making these credible allegations and where are they? Why are they not revealing this? And I think. I mean, I think I've seen everything that I need to see. And that's why I've been calling for Pam Bondi's impeachment. She's, you know, it's unacceptable.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

I think maybe I'll be the first to quote Donald Rumsfeld on this show. But, you know, there are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns. Some of the known unknowns are the survivor's statements, the victim statements that they have told us the FBI has. So I had Jess Michaels as my guest for the State of the Union. She knows that There is her 302, her statement documenting her experience of being raped by Jeffrey Epstein. That hasn't been released. It's not in the files. Either it's not in the files or it was redacted. That's a known unknown. And then there are the unknown unknowns. Right? These recent revelations about the accusation against President Trump and those missing files, we didn't know that until recently. What else is out there like that? Whether it's related to Donald Trump or other wealthy, powerful men, we just don't know.

[MSNow Host]

I was thinking about Jess Michaels and the other survivors today as this was all unfolding. The indignity of having Pam Bondi refuse to acknowledge them. The indignity of having the President of the United States who campaigned on this issue refused to acknowledge them. And then the indignity today of having Republicans take time that was ostensibly supposed to be about actually extricating information about Jeffrey Epstein, asking about UFOs and pizza. Should I be surprised they didn't ask about Whitewater? Like they were digging so deep into the archives, it feels like time wasted. Yes. It feels like not taking the process seriously, but also, to me is disrespectful to the women who are demanding justice and accountability.

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

They are. They have been deeply, deeply disrespectful what we've heard from when we've talked to the victims is that, I mean, they have worked really hard to make this bipartisan. They have gone to many members of the Republican Party, sat down with them, explained, you know, their cases. And what they've shared with us is that what the Republicans will essentially tell them is they feign empathy and they feign compassion, but essentially say there's nothing more that they can do. And it is such a slap in the face to them, and it's just heinous. That's actually what upset me the most. And you talked in your introduction about the fact that all of these Republicans showed up today. They didn't show up last week. And the reason it went on for so many hours today is also because if they've taken the time to come out here, they also kind of need something to show for it. Right? And so they were asking the same questions over and over again. Some of them went into these conspiracy theories, but it's just embarrassing. Do not show up. To take part in the deposition of literally the one person who is responsible for there being a Jeffrey Epstein. There would not be a Jeffrey Epstein or an island or a plane, all of that vast wealth and connections, without Les Wexner. And we were the only ones there.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

And that Wexner deposition was productive in that there was a critical piece of information that came out of it, which is that Wexner, according to him, was never interviewed by the FBI or the doj. That is an astounding revelation that didn't come to light until that deposition took place. This deposition today produced no new information that's actionable that can help our investigation move forward. It was a waste of time.

[MSNow Host]

There is one connection to Epstein here. There was an email in the Epstein file showing that Trump's Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, invited Jeffrey Epstein to a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton. Either of you, your sense of why it has taken Chairman Comer this long to decide whether to subpoena Lutnick?

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

First of all, I don't think Chairman Comer is very smart. I just do not think he has a strategy whatsoever. I don't think he has a plan. I think they wanted to make this big show of Hillary Clinton with no real idea of how they would take it forward. They have been reluctant about all of the subpoenas that have anything to do with this administration or even with the financial institutions. So I think until they only act when we continue to call for it, when there is so much public pressure, that there is absolutely no way to back out of it. I mean, the subpoena that came out of the Oversight Committee to begin with, I think only really happened because there was so much public pressure and it just looked so. It would have been so damning for none of them to have voted for it. So, I mean, he said he made some vague commitment today, but it was on his list.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

Or he's thinking about it or maybe it will happen.

[MSNow Host]

I mean, thinking about a lot of things.

[Congressman James Walkinshaw]

Yeah. He talks about the, you know, Trump administration officials that have come before the committee. What he doesn't say is the two of them, Bill Barr and Alex Acosta, are from Trump's first term and had falling out with Trump. Right. So they're no longer in Trump's good graces. So it was easy for Comer to bring them in. The challenge, the question, the question of courage for Chairman Comer is is he willing to bring in someone like Howard Lutnick, who is still in the good graces of Donald Trump, who operates under the protection of Donald Trump, and will Chairman Comer incur the wrath of Donald Trump in doing that? And Lutnick is tricky because Lutnick's story parallels Trump because Lutnick lied and said he didn't really have a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. The files have revealed he did have a significant relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump has lied for many years saying he didn't have a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. The files in our investigation have revealed he had a long and significant investigation. So Trump can't throw Lutnick overboard because Lutnick has done precisely what Trump did. So he has to continue to protect him. I don't think Chairman Comer will have the courage to overcome that.

[MSNow Host]

Congressman Waukenshaw, thank you so much. Congresswoman Ansari, thank you. All right, coming up, a few weeks ago, Congressman Jamie Raskin told Attorney General Pam Bondi to her face that she was, quote, running a massive Epstein cover up right out of the Justice Department. Well, in the weeks since then, that argument has obviously gotten stronger. Congressman Jimmy Raskin is standing by. He joins us next. This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.comwith an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.

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[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

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[MSNow Host]

After weeks of fighting tooth and nail to enforce their subpoena, House Republicans on the Oversight Committee finally got their wish of deposing Hillary Clinton in connection with the committee's investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and his accomplices. Clinton testified for six hours today behind closed doors instead of in public as she had requested. And with one very choice facial expression, as well as with some very choice words, she made her feelings about all of that known. Do you believe this was a fair

[Congresswoman Yasmin Ansari]

hearing and do you still want to

[MSNow Host]

testify publicly even though you do this deposition?

[Hillary Clinton]

Well, I'm not going to do it again. You know, they had a chance to do it in public, and I wish they had done it in public. I thought it was very repetitive. I thought that they asked literally the same questions over and over again. If they are going to fulfill their responsibilities to literally investigate the investigations, which is what they originally said was the scope of their work, I think they could have spent the day more productively.

[MSNow Host]

I think they could have spent their day more productively. Well, she's right. There are more productive ways for the committee to spend its day rather than spending six hours asking Hillary Clinton the same question over and over. For one, they could be trying to get to the bottom of why Trump's Justice Department did not release more than 50 pages of notes and mem of FBI interviews, including interviews with a woman who accused Trump of sexually abusing her when she was a minor. Trump himself not only denies wrongdoing, he says the Epstein files have completely exonerated him. But the missing files have become enough of a scandal that even Republicans on the committee are saying that they're looking into it. And now the DOJ itself is claiming they are looking into why these documents were withheld. I guess one can only hope that everyone is a little more productive on that front. Joining me now, Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He is the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. All right, after multiple outlets reported that these more than 50 pages were missing, Trump's DOJ, they are now saying that they are looking into whether it improperly withheld documents. Do you trust them to investigate themselves?

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

No, not for a second. And we've known for weeks, if not months, that they are engaged in a full blown cover up. There are a lot of things in Epstein files that they don't want people to see, and they don't want to see any further criminal investigation or prosecution. Remember, they got into office in January, and the very first thing that Attorney General Bondi did was to fire the lead prosecutor in the Epstein case, Maureen Comey from the Southern District of New York, and take the entire file and then declare the investigation over. They've been doing everything in their power to sweep this under the rug since they got in. And Donald Trump only ran out in front of the parade at the end to say that he supported the legislation we passed because he knew it was overwhelmingly popular in the country and in Congress. But they've been doing everything that they can to sabotage and sandbag us ever since. And so we are going to need to find some ways to compel them to comply with the law, which required essentially 100% production of the entire file, except for the identifying information of the victims. That was the one thing that they released they didn't redact. And then they redacted hundreds, thousands of pages in what they gave us, and they're still withholding 3 million pages entirely. So it's hard for me to describe this as anything but a cover up.

[MSNow Host]

You've run me through before, the various ways in which you could compel them to cooperate. I'm curious about timeline, though, if you think any of that is really feasible in advance of midterms.

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

Well, not with Mike Johnson and Chairman Comer in charge. They are fully complicit with the COVID up, But Congress could try to take them to court if the majority were interested in that. Individuals can try to go to court. That's even more difficult to establish standing, but it's not impossible. And we could give it a try. And then we can try to mobilize tremendous public pressure on them to do the right thing. And look, Donald Trump's numbers are sinking like a stone. The whole administration is shrinking down to the hardcore mega base because they are so invested in a cover up of these materials and protection of the people who are actually enablers, co conspirators, aiders and abettors financiers of the entire human trafficking ring, which was a billion dollar plus operation. You are not gonna tell me that you're running a global child sex trafficking ring with more than a billion dollars running through it, and there are only two people who committed crimes, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. I mean, that's just farcical. That's absurd.

[MSNow Host]

Right? Well, because materially, this is about justice and accountability for these survivors. But politically, this has become something of a proxy for what side of the equation each political party is on. Do you stand with the powerful or do you stand for those who are powerless or have less power? I also think this is a promise this president made. Right? He made a lot of promises out there on the campaign trail, and he's not delivered on them. It was telling to me, Congressman, that Republicans on the Oversight Committee said maybe we need to look into these missing documents, too. I mean, to me, less on the action and more on the fact that they are recognizing this as the political liability that it is.

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

Well, it's a staggering political liability for them because it exposes them as being the party of the richest, most powerful people in the country who think that they are above the law, just like Donald Trump believes that he's above the law. And that is really the signature identifying criterion of their party. We've got one party which is saying the government's got to be an instrument for the common good for everybody. We've got to stand up for truth and justice in the justice system. We've got to stand with victims. And another party which says that the government is an instrument for the corrupt self enrichment of the guy who gets in and the protection of the crimes of the most powerful people in the country. So that is a pretty dramatic contrast. But on our side, we have said from the beginning, let the chips fall where they may. Whoever is involved in child sex trafficking or rape or abuse should be held to account, regardless of their political party. That is something you will never hear the Republicans say. With the honorable exception of Thomas Massie and a handful of others, they will not say that because they are involved principally in protecting Donald Trump. And they understand he's a 34 count convicted felon, twice impeached, he's utterly incorrigible and lawless. And so they're just doing whatever they can to participate in his cover up.

[MSNow Host]

Congressman Ross, gonna have to sneak in a quick break, but I cannot let you go without asking you about two remarkable headlines we saw today about Donald Trump's plans to essentially try and take over elections in this country. Headlines about rewriting election rules unilaterally and trying to declare a national emergency to give him new power over the voting process. I'm gonna ask you about all of that when we come back.

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[MSNow Host]

The writing has been on the wall for months now. Republicans are looking increasingly vulnerable as we approach the midterms in November. Donald Trump is facing the very real possibility of losing his majority in Congress. That is why he is pulling every single anti Democratic lever he can to stop that from happening. One of those levers is the Save America Act, a bill that could prevent millions of eligible voters from casting ballots. But so far, there has been little appetite in the Senate to actually pass that bill. So Trump now seems to be taking matters into his own hands. According to new reporting from msNow, Trump has directed his White House counsel's office to explore the feasibility of an executive order requiring proof of citizenship for voter registration and photo identification at polling locations nationwide, even as his own lawyers have warned the moves would likely run into legal trouble. To once again push the limits of his executive power and potentially rig the midterms. Trump is also reportedly leaning on the likes of Steve Bannon, Clinton Mitchell, Sen. Kurt Olson, same cast of characters who tried to overturn the 2020 election. At the same time, the Washington Post reports today that pro Trump activists who say they are in coordination with the White House are circulating a 17 page draft executive order that claims China interfered in the 2020 election as a basis to declare a national emergency that would unlock extraordinary presidential power over voting. Those activists say their draft order would allow Trump to ban mail ballots and voting machines. To be clear, their claim that China somehow interfered in our elections has already been debunked, much like the other conspiracy theories that are driving Trump's nationwide hunt for the fraud he's been alleging, which, of course, led to the FBI seizure of ballots in Fulton County, Georgia, last month. In fact, Trump has already tried to use executive power to rewrite election rules last March. That is, until a federal judge blocked key parts of his order, which she described as both unconstitutional and a threat to democracy. But that does not mean Trump won't try again. Congressman Jamie Raskin is back with me. It was Mark Elias who won that lawsuit against Trump that partially blocked his initial executive order, and he said today. This is Mark. If Trump issues such an order, we will sue again and we will win again. Do you think the courts act as a backstop here?

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

Well, I certainly hope so. I mean, you can't completely count on the Roberts courts. But, you know, there were 60 federal and state courts in 2020 who rejected every one of Donald Trump's fraudulent claims of electoral corruption and fraud. He wasn't trying to stop election fraud in 2020. He was trying to commit election fraud in 2020. Remember then when he called the Secretary of State of Georgia, Brad Raffensberger, and said, just fine me 11,780 votes. That's not Donald Trump trying to block election fraud. That was him being caught red handed trying to commit election fraud. He did the same thing with the Department of Justice where he tried to convince his own appointees to say, just call the election corrupt and leave it up to me and the House Republicans who were gonna pursue the counterfeit elector plan cooked up by John Eastman. So everything we're hearing about today is an echo of what took place in 2020. Yeah. Write me a memo. Explain how we can steal the election. Why? Because their policies are tremendously unpopular. They're plummeting in the polls. So they don't have a program of policies for the country. They're just going to try to shrink and reduce the electorate and somehow rig the electoral result. And so we are going to have to fight them at the county level, at the state level, at the national level, every step along the way. But the public needs to be asking Donald Trump, why don't you actually advance some policies that would get people interested in voting for you as opposed to just trying to rig the election, which is clearly where they're headed.

[MSNow Host]

Our colleague Vaughn Hilliard was bylined on that reporting from msnow, and he characterized the president's choice to take this approach as almost not the most extreme option that he had been considering. I wonder, first, if you agree with that characterization, and two, what you think the administration's rationale was right if they said to him, listen, of all these crazy plans, this one is the most legally viable.

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

Well, first of all, the administration should take note from what happened in the tariffs case, where Donald Trump there again completely bypassed Congress and then purported to impose the largest tax increase basically in American history on the American people. And the court struck it down rightfully, because he has no power to do that. Congress is the lawmaking branch. And in Article 1, Section 4, we've got the power to essentially amend what the states are doing in terms of administering elections. But it's totally up to the states. The president has no role constitutionally. Just check out the Constitution. He has no role at all in administering midterm elections. And so he's talking about suspending or canceling the midterm elections. It's all nonsense and it's fraudulent. We had midterm congressional elections during the Civil War. We had them in World War II. So we're not going to cancel them because Donald Trump's feelings might be hurt again because there's an electoral landslide coming repudiating his tariffs and his inability to do anything for the American people and the economy and so on. That's what this is about. So he's looking for his new John Eastman. He's looking for his new Rudy Giuliani, who will cook up some harebrained scheme totally at odds with the Constitution. And we need people to stand up for the Constitution because one of the people who spoke to Trump about how fraudulent his theories were was his own attorney general, who told him that it was B.S. william Barr said all his theories were B.S. the White House counsel told him he couldn't do it. Well, now he's stuffed his administration with complete cronies, lackeys and sycophants who will not get in his way this time. So this is why we do need the Supreme Court to stand up. Obviously, we can't count on the three justices who are basically acting like Pam Bondi and Patel at this point. But let's hope that that six justice pro Constitution majority that we saw in the tariffs case will stand by the Constitution when it comes to electoral federalism and the power of the states to run their own elections without unilateral, unlawful interference by the President of the United States. He simply has no role in it. He's out of it.

[MSNow Host]

Congressman, before I let you go, I do want to ask you about the news tonight that Netflix is backing out of acquiring Warner Brothers, which means David Ellison's Paramount is going to likely own CNN addition to cbs. I know you've led a congressional investigation into the FCC regarding the Paramount Skydance merger. What are the stakes here?

[Congressman Jamie Raskin]

The stakes are high because look in the big picture, what's happening is that we don't have meaningful, aggressive antitrust enforcement based on the law. What we have is competing teams of lobbyists who are trying to see essentially who can satisfy the pay to play expect of the Trump administration. And we've got to get back to the rule of law generally in America and certainly with respect to antitrust jurisprudence. Donald Trump is presiding over an extraordinary consolidation of corporate power. And it's the corporations who are willing to play by his rules, pay him off when he sues them, sing his tune, that are the ones that are ending up on top. That is not how a free market economy should work. It should not be up to the president to anoint and appoint victors and losers. But that's what we've gotten into. So we need to restore meaningful antitrust law enforcement for the sake of consumers, for the sake of democracy. And that means we've got to get rid of Donald Trump's pay to play system of graft and corruption.

[MSNow Host]

Congressman Jamie Raskin, as always, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Coming up, as the president's son in law, Jared Kushner negotiates with Iran on Trump's behalf. We've got an update on a whistleblower report that involves both Jared Kushner and Iran. That whistleblower's lawyer is going to join us next. As President Trump continues to saber rattle about a potential strike on Iran. Today, diplomats from both countries met in Geneva to try to cool tensions and avert war. The person the Iranian delegation trusted with that task was their foreign minister, a government official with more than 35 years of diplomatic experience. The American delegation, on the other hand, was led by real estate developers Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, the president's son in law, who does not actually have any sort of formal role in The US Government. At least not yet. Just last week, the President said he intends to name Kushner as a special peace envoy, but for now, he's still technically just a volunteer, which is particularly notable given that for a month now, we have been following the story of a highly classified anonymous whistleblower report from a member of the intelligence community who alleges that Trump's Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, spiked a formal whistleblower report they filed last year. A whistleblower report that the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal both say involved an intercepted conversation between two foreign nationals discussing Jared Kushner and Iran. Beyond that, we have no idea what the content of that conversation was, though a senior U.S. official tells MSNow that the discussion of Kushner was just, quote, salacious gossip. But the whistleblower alleges that Gabbard limited the sharing of the content of that conversation for political purposes, an allegation that Gabbard fiercely denies, which her spokeswoman claims is baseless and politically motivated. Now, that may be true, but considering the fact that Jared Kushner is currently negotiating on behalf of the United States with Iran, it would be great if Congress could see the intercepted conversation themselves. You know, just to check. But Tulsi Gabbard is reportedly not letting that happen. The Wall Street Journal is now reporting that Gabbard's office is blocking Congress from seeing the unredacted version of this whistleblower report, claiming they can't show it to Congress because of presidential claims of executive privilege. Joining me now is Andrew Buckai, chief Legal counsel at Whistleblower Aid and the attorney for the whistleblower at the heart of this story. Thank you so much for being with us.

[Andrew Bakaj]

Thank you for having me on.

[MSNow Host]

Okay, can you tell me what you make of the Wall Street Journal's reporting that the White House is exerting executive privilege to try to keep your client's whistleblower complaint from Congress?

[Andrew Bakaj]

Well, first, just to begin, our client has a right to go to Congress by law. In fact, we have asked the Director of National Intelligence for the process by which our client can go and provide a briefing to the Hill. And so that is one thing that I need to make clear. As for the White House or the Director of National Intelligence asserting executive privilege, that would be something that is rare, as far as I understand. And bottom line is that the senators and members of Congress who would have access to the underlying intelligence would only be the Gang of Eight. So there is a mechanism by which this information should be going to those who need to know it.

[MSNow Host]

Talk to me more about the possibility of your client appearing before members of Congress, how that would work, the timeline on which that could happen. What more can you share?

[Andrew Bakaj]

I really can't share the timing on what we may be able to do with respect to our client briefing the Hill, because right now we're waiting for the guidance. You know what's interesting about a case like this is [e-mail] for example, we've recently had a whistleblower come forward involving ICE and how ICE has directed that when they're teaching their new trainees that they violate the Constitution, the Fourth Amendment right. We were able to go directly to Congress with that information because the whistleblower in that case, Mr. Trank, is not in the intelligence community. But there are different hurdles and requirements for members of the intelligence community where we have to go through the Inspector John process and effectively get permission from the Director of National Intelligence to go to the Hill. What's really problematic here, in my opinion, is that Tulsi Gabbard is the subject of this complaint, of this disclosure, and she is the one who's blocking its transmittal to Congress in its totality. And by the way, I don't even know what the Gang of Eight has even seen because there's more than just the initial filing, which as I understand is just one page. There's other information associated with this disclosure.

[MSNow Host]

The Wall Street Journal also reported last year, Gabber discussed the intelligence that's in your client's whistleblower report with Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles. Any good reason why Susie Wiles would be able to see classified intelligence, intelligence, but the Gang of Eight would not?

[Andrew Bakaj]

Doesn't make any sense to me.

[MSNow Host]

Right.

[Andrew Bakaj]

It makes absolutely no sense to me. And what's really concerning to me is the fact that you have the Director of National Intelligence running to the White House, disclosing the underlying intelligence and then coming back to, to, to headquarters and spiking its dissemination within the intelligence community. That's a huge problem. Now, I haven't seen the underlying intelligence. I don't have the access to classified information in this case to see that. But if we take what's been reported by the New York Times and Wall Street Journal in terms of who the individuals implicated are and the countries involved, this is serious. You know, this disclosure was made back in April and May of last year. We're still waiting to get this to Congress. And obviously there are world events that may hinge on what the underlying information would reveal.

[MSNow Host]

I want to stay on the actual piece of this because yesterday you had top Democrats in the Senate and the House Intelligence Committee, Senator Mark Warner, Congressman Jim Himes wrote a letter to Tulsi Gabbard demanding more information about these claims of executive privilege. We've talked about what you are doing on your end, the guidance you are seeking in terms of getting your client in front of Congress. What do you want to see from Congress and what is it going to take for them to appropriately push this administration to disclose this information?

[Andrew Bakaj]

Congress cannot let up. They need to exercise their Article 1 obligations and conduct oversight over the intelligence community. I mean, just for historical perspective, back in the 70s, you had the Church Commission conducting an investigation to determine whether or not the intelligence community was spying against UN American citizens. Right. And following Watergate you had the creation and establishment of federal inspectors general. There is a reason why we have these processes in place because unlike other departments and agencies where it's easier, I would think, to for Congress to conduct oversight over those departments, it's tricky for Congress to get access to understanding how the intelligence community operates. So I would not want Congress to let up on this. And something that I think is really important here is that while I understand and appreciate, given that I myself am a former intelligence officer, that there are hurdles for getting whist blowers from CIA, for example, to Congress because of the classified nature of their work. We can't have a brick wall. So I do believe that Congress needs to look at what has gone well and what has gone horribly in this particular case and remedy the process.

[MSNow Host]

Especially because in as much as there is an impact to your client and an impact to national security, there is also a chilling effect for future whistleblowers. Andrew Buckai, thank you so much for being with us. We have to sneak in a quick break, but I kid you not, Oscar winner Mor Freeman is joining Lawrence tonight on the Last Word. So do not go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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