'I did not waver': Rep. McIver speaks out on federal charges after ICE center confrontation

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I did not waver': Rep. McIver speaks out on federal charges after ICE center confrontation"

Title: The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC
Release Date: May 21, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this intense episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki, host Jen Psaki delves deep into the recent federal charges filed against Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver following a chaotic confrontation at an ICE detention center in Newark, New Jersey. Psaki examines the broader implications of this incident, the role of the Department of Justice (DOJ), and the potential political motivations behind the charges. Additionally, the episode covers the impending Republican budget bill and its significant impact on various social programs.

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2. The ICE Detention Center Confrontation

[00:45] Jen Psaki:
Psaki sets the stage by recounting the recent incident where Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver was charged with felony assault by the Trump administration's Justice Department after a frenzied confrontation outside a Newark ICE facility. Despite her congressional authority to conduct oversight at such facilities, the situation quickly escalated into chaos.

[05:53] Jen Psaki:
Highlighting Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem's lack of understanding, Psaki criticizes Noem's erroneous explanation of habeas corpus, demonstrating a profound misunderstanding of fundamental legal principles. This misstep underscores the administration’s broader incompetence.

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3. Interview with Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver

[15:14] Jen Psaki:
Psaki welcomes Rep. MacGyver to the show, focusing on her experience and the subsequent charges. MacGyver vehemently defends her actions, asserting her intent to perform her oversight duties without aggression.

[15:42] LaMonica MacGyver:
"I definitely plan on making that argument in court. I can't wait to have my day in court, you know, where we can have due process, which this administration has stripped many of being able to have due process."
MacGyver emphasizes the importance of due process, accusing the administration of undermining constitutional safeguards.

[18:40] LaMonica MacGyver:
"I mean, it's not shocking. We've been seeing from this administration constant, you know, breaking of the rules, constant breaking of the process, constant disregard to the Constitution."
She criticizes the Trump administration for its perceived disregard of legal norms and processes.

[20:54] LaMonica MacGyver:
"I did not waver. I showed up there to do my job, and she wanted me to admit to doing things. All of these different lists of things that she said that I did."
MacGyver firmly states her innocence, rejecting the charges as politically motivated.

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4. Department of Justice and Public Integrity Section

[10:50] Elizabeth Warren:
Senator Elizabeth Warren joins the discussion, critiquing the Administration's use of DOJ to target elected officials. She underscores the absence of the Public Integrity Section in reviewing charges against MacGyver, a deviation from standard protocol meant to prevent political prosecutions.

[13:56] Jen Psaki:
Psaki points out that the DOJ bypassed the Public Integrity Section, leaving the decision to charge MacGyver solely to U.S. Attorney Alina Haba, whom she describes as unqualified and politically aligned with Trump.

[11:37] Elizabeth Warren:
"Sham indictments and baseless allegations will not deter us because the only crime President Trump has committed is loving America."
Warren criticizes the legitimacy of the charges, portraying them as unfounded attempts to silence opposition.

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5. Republican Budget Bill and Its Implications

[24:43] Jen Psaki:
Shifting focus, Psaki addresses the controversial Republican budget bill set for a rushed vote at 1 am Eastern time. Senator Elizabeth Warren joins to explain the bill's detrimental effects on essential programs.

[27:58] Elizabeth Warren:
"It's absolute baloney because what it's going to do is it's going to cut the money available to help people have health care coverage."
Warren elaborates on how the bill threatens to strip health insurance from 8.6 million Americans, disproportionately affecting vulnerable populations.

[29:38] Elizabeth Warren:
"It's not nearly as many as need and want Head Start. Nearly every Head Start place has a waiting list longer than your arm..."
She highlights cuts to the Head Start program, emphasizing the long-term negative impacts on children's education and community health.

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6. Senator Chris Murphy's Grilling of Secretary Rubio

[38:27] Jen Psaki:
Senator Chris Murphy confronts Secretary of State Marco Rubio regarding Trump's alleged plans to retain a luxury plane for personal use, raising concerns about misuse of government resources.

[38:41] Chris Murphy:
"I've never heard that before."
Rubio's evasive responses fuel skepticism about his transparency and knowledge of the administration's activities.

[39:29] Marco Rubio:
"Most of the top 200 buyers are foreign individuals... trying to get something from the president to trade your investment in his crypto coin for some national security favor."
Rubio warns of potential foreign influence through questionable financial dealings, though his credibility is questioned due to prior evasiveness.

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7. Closing Discussions and Future Topics

[42:26] Marco Rubio:
Discussing potential legislative actions, Rubio advocates for bipartisan efforts to regulate stablecoins, aiming to close loopholes that currently allow the president to bypass ethics requirements.

[43:31] Jen Psaki:
Psaki hints at future discussions, including an upcoming interview with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, promising continued scrutiny of the Trump administration's actions.

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8. Notable Quotes

• Jen Psaki:
  "The Justice Department has a Public Integrity section that always has to typically approve if there are charges that are going to be filed against a member of Congress or an elected official." [18:11]

• LaMonica MacGyver:
  "I did not waver. I showed up there to do my job." [20:54]

• Elizabeth Warren:
  "No nation builds a strong future by shortchanging its children." [29:38]

• Marco Rubio:
  "Marco is a political animal. It's really hard to believe that he's never heard that the president is likely going to hold onto this plane after he leaves office." [39:29]

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9. Conclusion

Jen Psaki's episode offers a thorough examination of the Trump administration's aggressive actions against a sitting member of Congress, raising critical questions about political prosecutions and the erosion of constitutional protections. Additionally, the discussion on the Republican budget bill underscores the significant policy shifts that could adversely affect millions of Americans. Through incisive interviews and sharp analysis, Psaki provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these pressing issues.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on a fictional transcript and is intended for illustrative purposes.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows are ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next Episode, Elton John.

[Jen Psaki]

It's okay to ask for help.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

I didn't think it was because I.

[Jen Psaki]

Thought it was a sign of weakness.

[Rachel Maddow]

Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC, we're.

[Jen Psaki]

Going to have Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver. She's going to join me at this table shortly. We're all going to talk about everything that happened less than two weeks ago and everything that's happened since then because as you probably already know by now, she was just charged with with felony assault by Donald Trump's Justice Department after she was caught in a scrum. You can see there it was crazy, insane scrum outside a Newark ICE facility, one that she had absolutely every right to visit as a member of Congress conducting oversight. But before we get there and before we talk to Congresswoman McIver and we're going to talk to her for plenty of time, I promise, lots of questions. Really excited to hear from her. There are some things that happened on Capitol Hill today that I need to show you. One of them is a moment from a hearing involving Secretary of State Marco Rubio, that guy who became what seems to be the latest Trump official to deploy the strategy of what I can only call complete ignorance when asked about Trump's controversies.

[Marco Rubio]

It's not your understanding that the plane ultimately will belong to the president or to the president's library after.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, I don't, I'm not involved at that level of it. I've heard, I've never heard that before.

[Marco Rubio]

What president has offered access to, to him to the 200 top purchasers of his meme coin. Do you have a list of those foreign individuals who are, who will be meeting with the president?

[Chris Murphy]

I don't, I don't know anything about. I didn't even know there was a dinner on Thursday night.

[Marco Rubio]

Isn't that a relevant question for the secretary of state?

[Chris Murphy]

Yeah, I'm at the Social Security.

[Marco Rubio]

Which foreign interests are going to be speaking to the president? I mean, it's kind of naive to believe that they aren't going to be in that room talking about national security matter.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, I Don't think that that's the case at all, because I would be aware if it was the case. You're asking about a dinner I don't know anything about. I can't answer you because I don't know anything about this dinner. It's the first I heard of it.

[Jen Psaki]

He knows nothing about it. It's the first he heard of it. Somehow Senator Chris Murphy, who was you just saw there, obviously questioning Secretary Rubio, will join me here later this hour. I can't wait to talk to him about what went down there. My bet is he's pretty skeptical that the Secretary of State had heard nothing about any of that. We're all skeptical of that. But Secretary Rubio was also not the only Trump official trying to plead ignorance. I guess that's the strategy. Now about Trump's most outlandish and potentially illegal plans, because today, former Congressman Billy Long, Trump's nominee to run the irs, was also in the hot seat. And surprise, surprise, he doesn't know anything about Trump's plans either.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Is it illegal for the president to instruct the IRS to remove nonprofit status from a taxpayer?

[Marco Rubio]

I'm not going to have the answer that you need, and I apologize. But it, like I said, why are.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You not having the answer? You've had three weeks to consult with lawyers. I'm asking what I think is a pretty simple question. Can the President of the United States legally tell the IRS to change someone's nonprofit status?

[Marco Rubio]

I'm not able to answer.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You can't read these words and tell what those words say?

[Jen Psaki]

I mean, leave it to a former professor to really make him seem as unprepared for class as humanly possible. I felt like maybe I'd failed a class there watching that. But Senator Warren Ross is also going to join me tonight to discuss that hearing a whole lot more, including the middle of the night vote that is apparently happening on the big, beautiful bill. But out of all Trump's Cabinet members who displayed either willful or genuine ignorance, hard to know the difference. Today there was a lot of competition. The most galling had to be Trump's Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem. Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country to suspend their rights.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Let me stop, ma' am.

[Jen Psaki]

Habeas corpus. Excuse me, that's incorrect. I mean, given Noem's answer, there she is in the Cabinet, everyone. That response from Secretary Hassan was pretty polite, I would say. I Mean, habeas corpus is definitely not the right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country. In fact, it is actually kind of the opposite. It is the opposite which Senator Hasen was quick to point out to her in the hearing.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government.

[Jen Psaki]

Could simply arrest people, including American citizens.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And hold them indefinitely for no reason. Habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free societies like America from police.

[Jen Psaki]

States like North Korea. And if you thought that was the low point in Secretary Noem's hearing today, you would be incorrect, because things actually got worse for her after that.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Do you know what section of the Constitution, the suspension clause of habeas corpus is? I do not. Nope. Do you know which article it is in? No, I do not, sir.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay. So it's pretty clear that Secretary Noem does not really know much at all about the fundamental right to due process in this country. It's a pretty important right. To be fair, she's been pretty busy dressing up as an ICE officer or dressing up as a Border Patrol agent or dressing up as a cowboy for some reason. Not clear why that one. Or dressing up as a SWAT team member with her gun pointed dangerously close to that man's head, it appears. And when she isn't busy playing dress up, Kristi Noem has also been busy with other ventures, apparently. I mean, she's trying to launch, or she's been in discussions about launching a Hunger Games style reality show pitting immigrants against each other. That's a real thing that she has actually been discussing, as I'm sure you know. But what that all tells us is that all of this dress up playing as various law enforcement officials and dreaming up cruel reality TV shows is maybe what Kristina thinks her job is. And what those answers in that hearing I played tell us is that she's obviously way out of her depth on issues that the DHS secretary should have some understanding of, or a great deal of understanding of, to be honest. And when you have incompetence at the top, that can lead to, of course, obviously, incompetence on the ground. And that's what we saw two weeks ago at an ICE detention center in Newark, New Jersey, when Newark's Democratic mayor and several Democratic members of Congress showed up to conduct routine oversight. And this chaotic scene ensued. Some of the agents you see there pushing and shoving those members of Congress are from a little known Agency inside the Department of Homeland Security. They're called Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI for short. And you can see it on the side of his jacket there. Their official job is to conduct big, complex investigations of things like drug trafficking and smuggling networks. One former assistant director at HSI recently told my colleague Rachel Maddow, quote, crowd control is not something HSI special agents are routinely trained or equipped to do. Asking them to do so creates an officer safety issue as well as raises the potential for personal and professional legal liability for the agents. But that was who Kristi Noem's DHS decided to put on the ground at that ICE detention center. And then late last night, the Trump administration announced they are now bringing criminal charges against one of the members of Congress involved in that scene. New Jersey Democratic Congressman Lamonica MacGyver was charged with assaulting an officer, which is a felony. The DOJ claims that what the congresswoman did in that scrum, which you can see there again, and we keep showing it to you because you need to see it constitutes assault, even though it sure looks like she was being pushed from all angles. I mean, look at that video. Let's just pause on that for a second that they issued these charges because this is an administration that has a very high bar when it comes to assaulting officers of the law. I mean, don't forget, this is the administration that pardoned or commuted the sentences of nearly 170 people who pled guilty to assaulting police officers on January 6th. Given all of that, should Congresswoman McIver really have been charged for something like this? Something you see in this video? Is that an appropriate charge for a sitting member of Congress in that situation? I mean, I think you can tell I clearly have a view on this. But lucky for us, there's also a whole part of our government whose job is to answer those kinds of questions. It's called the Public Integrity Section. It's an apolitical part of the Department of Justice, and it exists to serve as a check whenever someone in the government wants to charge a public official with a crime. So every time the federal government wants to bring charges against an elected official, career prosecutors in that very special office review the case to make sure that those charges are not actually being brought for political reasons. There's a real purpose for this. To state the obvious. I mean, the cases against Eric Adams and Bob Menendez and George Santos all had to be signed off on by the Public Integrity Section before they could go forward. And you'll never guess, though you will guess what Unit inside the Justice Department. Donald Trump has been trying to gut the Public Integrity Section, of course, because they would like nothing more than getting rid of that important check against political prosecutions. And today, NBC News Ryan Reilly reports that DOJ broke with long standing protocol and did not even consult with what's left of the Public Integrity Section before charging Congresswoman McIver. And so without the Public Integrity Section weighing in, which has happened for a long time, the decision about whether or not to charge Congressman MacGyver is left entirely up to Trump's handpicked U.S. attorney in New Jersey, which just so happens to be this woman. Somebody said to me, alina, would you rather be, would you rather be smart or pretty?

[Elizabeth Warren]

And I said, oh, easy, pretty.

[Jen Psaki]

I can fake being smart. Can you, though? Now, that is Alina Haba, Trump's former defense attorney, who he decided to put in charge of the U.S. attorney's office in New Jersey. And prior to representing Donald Trump, Haba worked at a small firm with just four attorneys and served as the general counsel to a parking garage company. But after Donald Trump burned his way through just about every single experienced attorney who would take his calls, he ended up with Alina Habba on his team. She went on, of course, to lose Trump's high profile defamation case against E. Jean Carroll, costing him more than $80 million in the process. But Trump still kept her around. So I guess so she could say things like this.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Sham indictments and baseless allegations will not.

[Jen Psaki]

Deter us because the only crime President Trump has committed is loving America. Is it now? I mean, he also committed 34 felonies and was convicted by a jury of his peers. But hey, who's counting? When Trump became president again, he then appointed Alina Habit to be the US Attorney for New Jersey. And typically US Attorneys do keep their distance from administration since their job is to act as independent prosecutors. But Habba has done no such thing. Here she was just last month playing dress up with Kristi Noem. And despite her previous opposition to so called sham indictments, as she calls them, Hoppett's does not exactly seem to be hiding the political motivation behind charging a Democratic congresswoman. Before the charging documents were even released, Hoppett was already on X posting siren emojis about her plans to charge Congresswoman MacGyver. That's not how this goes in any administration. And for all those reasons, it really is hard to call this anything other than a political prosecution. And the American public understands that, too. I mean, when the incident at the Newark ICE facility first happened, Haba's office initially tried to charge the mayor of Newark with a criminal trespassing. Here's what happened last week when she showed up for a hearing in that case. Sam, tell us how you really feel, everyone. Now, a few hours later, Haba's office officially dropped the charges against the Newark mayor, but now they've set their sights on Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver. And Congressman MacGyver joins me here at the table to talk about all of it in just 90 seconds.

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows are ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. And all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Main justice, and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Jen Psaki]

A lot of short daily news podcasts.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Focus on just one story, but right.

[Jen Psaki]

Now you probably need more on up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

In under 15 minutes because no one's.

[Jen Psaki]

Story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the Upverse podcast from npr. Joining me now to discuss the federal criminal charges against her filed by Trump's handpicked US Attorney for the state of New Jersey, who I just talked about is Congresswoman Lamonica McIver. Congresswoman, it's great to see you. I know you have had a hell of a couple of weeks. Thank you for being here.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Thank you. Thank you so much, Jen, for having me, for allowing me to come on and talk about the facts of this case.

[Jen Psaki]

Of course. I was just watching as I was preparing to talk to you today, back to some of the interviews on the day that all of this happened and at the time you described it and so did your colleagues who are with you as being assaulted by multiple ICE agents. Is that part of the argument that you want to make now and that you plan to make in court as you proceed here?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

So I definitely plan on making that argument in court. I can't wait to have my day in court, you know, where we can have due process, which this administration has stripped many of being able to have due process. But I'm looking forward to that, to telling the truth about what happened on that day.

[Jen Psaki]

When you look back at video, I'm sure you were just digesting it all in the moment when you were doing all those interviews that day. You've probably Talked to your colleagues as you've pieced together what happened? I mean, did you even know who you were surrounded by at the time?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

It was fast. It happened so fast. I mean, I was just talking about this with Rep. Bonnie Watson the other day. We were on a segment together and we were playing. They were playing the video back, and we were just talking about how it was so disheartening to see that, to see that episode. It was a very tense situation. We were trying to ask questions, trying to get explanation from the officials that were there, and it was just so chaotic. And ICE and Homeland Security definitely escalated the situation, caused the chaos and the confrontation, and it just was so unnecessary. So it was really hard to play the videos back. It's very hard to watch, especially when we're just showing up to do our jobs. You know, an oversight visit, that should have been simple.

[Jen Psaki]

It's also, I would just state, anybody can show up. You have this right as a member of Congress to an ICE facility to.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Conduct oversight without an appointment.

[Jen Psaki]

Without an appointment. Now, after the Scrum, outside that we just saw that you have been charged with assault over. You did a tour of the ICE facility. Yes.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Yep.

[Jen Psaki]

Were any of the same people that you recognized from the SCRUM a part of that tour?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

The same people?

[Jen Psaki]

Were there the same people?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

It was the same people. We actually had ICE officials come there. The ICE regional director for that area came along with many of his cabinet members. They were there, if that's what you call them. They came. They took the entire tour with us after that whole situation happened. I mean, it literally offered us a soda at that, too. But whole tour, we were able to walk the facility. We even got stuck in the elevator in the process, which, once again, that was one of the things that the mayor of Newark and the city claimed that they didn't have an inspection for the elevator. We also were able to talk to detainees who told us that they were just very confused. They didn't know what was going on. It's been days since they had a phone call, since they talked to legal representation, which is a problem. You know, most of the folks we spoke to just were like, we wish we could have a phone call or someone would tell us what is going on. Right now. We just don't understand what is happening. And so, yeah, I've had a full tour.

[Jen Psaki]

It's with the same people. I'm just going to restate because I think that's a bit mind blowing, given where we are. I mentioned this in the opening of the show that The Justice Department has a Public Integrity section that always has to typically approve if there are charges that are going to be filed against a member of Congress or an elected official. And sometimes those are warranted. They did not do that in this case, according to NBC Reporting, which I don't know if you just learned that today, but what is your reaction to that?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

I mean, it's not shocking. We've been seeing from this administration constant, you know, breaking of the rules, constant breaking of the process, constant disregard to the Constitution. We've seen it all, you know, and so I try not to, I always say when I came into this job in September, believe it or not, it's only been since September. It feels like it's been 20 years. But once January 20 came, it was just like, hey, try not to be surprised by some of the things that they do because they're so, you know, outrageous. And so to see them, you know, disregarding process as usual, it's just, it's a regular day in the Trump administration of the things that they do.

[Jen Psaki]

You were charged by Alina Haba. I just gave a little bit of an overview, though, there. She has quite a history. Do you think he would have been charged if it had been any other U.S. attorney in this, in this role?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

I mean, I don't think so. I mean, that's, I don't want to speculate. I mean, I think anyone that Trump, you know, promotes or appoints, I mean, I think they've been problematic from every department you can think of. So I wouldn't say it wouldn't happen, but I just, it's, it's crazy because there's so many other crimes and things to be focused on, and definitely not to be focused on a congresswoman or congress members who were there just to do a oversight visit. We were not there to bust detainees out of prison. We've heard that come out from the doj. We were there for an oversight visit. And, Jen, this is something that we've done before. We were just a couple of weeks ago, back in February, we were at a same kind of detention center in Elizabeth a couple of miles away. And we went there, different providers, third party provider, but we were there, had a visit. There was a little delay, but we still were able to go in and do our visit. We didn't have a whole, you know, ICE unit come and create a chaos situation for us to take a visit. This is something that we're used to doing. We've done it before, and so we had no idea that it will spiral out of this. So I just think there are so many other important things for Elena to be focused on that she should be focused on rather than trying to stop, you know, congressmembers from doing their jobs.

[Jen Psaki]

No question about it. Lots happening in every state. You said this morning that, well, Haba said you had declined every opportunity to come to a resolution. You said they wanted you to admit to something you didn't do. What did they want you to admit to?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

I mean, there was a lot. We've had a week of back and forth with them, and I will say that I did not waver. You know, I showed up there to do my job, and she wanted me to admit to doing things. All of these different lists of things that she said that I did.

[Jen Psaki]

Like what?

[Lamonica MacGyver]

I mean, from things of impeding, you know, I. There was some other things in there that she put in there, but I can't remember exactly what it was. But she wanted me to admit to these things, sign an agreement to them. And I'm not doing that, you know, because it's not true. And there was a lot of back and forth and just tenseness, you know, all week from her and from her office. And so at the end of the day, once again showed up to do my job. And I don't need to apologize for doing that. That is what the people of New Jersey expect for me to do. The 740, 44,000, almost close to 800,000 people I represent. And why should we apologize about doing our job when ICE and Homeland Security created that environment and that atmosphere that we saw out there that day?

[Jen Psaki]

I think part of one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is there's so much disinformation out there. I want to play something that Tom Homan said earlier today on our air, which has a lot of disinformation on it, but I want to talk with you about it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You say she has a right to do her oversight, but there's a right.

[Jen Psaki]

Way to do it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Forcing yourself two officers to get in.

[Jen Psaki]

That facility is not the way to do it. We have many Congress visit our facilities. What she did was unprofessional. He keeps using the word unprofessional. So I want to know what you think of that. But I also want to just ask you. There's a lot of inaccuracies in there. I want to give you a chance to tell everybody what all the inaccuracies are.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Absolutely. First of all, number one, we can show up to any facility, any ICE facility, unannounced we like to come unannounced because we want to see the conditions in the state that they are not with a plant visit where they have time to fix up anything or, you know, con. Cohorse anything of a visit. So we can do that. We can show up secondly, you know, push our way through. Like, no. Before that whole situation occurred, we were inside of this facility waiting for over an hour for ICE administrators to get there to take us on this tour. We were also there with the go, which is the prison, the private prison company that runs this location, who we were talking with the person who was in charge of the facility, who was actually lovely, by the way. He was providing us with great information. He was like, hey, I would love to give you guys a tour, but we have to wait on ice because they said that I can. So at the end of the day, we're waiting over an hour for them to come. We didn't bust our way through. We didn't do any of that. We were invited there. Welcome. Waiting there for them to come and give us a tour. And afterwards, we see them come, and they're, like, rushing to focus on the mayor of Newark, which we're like, what is going on here? We're just here for our tour. Why are you going out here to deal with this situation? So at the end of the day, I mean, everything that he's saying, he doesn't have the facts. I mean, it's just so much disconnect, I think, between all of their departments and their leadership. They're not on the same page and unprofessional. No, it's unprofessional for us that had to go through that. I think when three members of Congress show up to your gate, you should have some respect and have some professionalism with them. But this is. This administration. There is no basic governing respect or, you know, character with this administration. Things are just rogue. They're doing whatever they want to do. I mean, just not even a basic conversation, I think, about coming from city council and how I used to work with colleagues, and we would disagree, but we would still show up professional, both of us, to be able to perform for the people that we represent, and it's just not there. The same, you know, professionalism is not there. So I find it, like, kind of, you know, it's silly and honestly outrageous for, you know, him to call me unprofessional when they created this unprofessional situation.

[Jen Psaki]

Congresswoman McIver, thank you so much for joining me. I know. I know we have daughters the same age. I'm sure they're. She's very proud of you.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you for being here. Coming up, Republicans are going to keep pushing through their big awful bill tonight at 1am Eastern. Yes, you heard me right, 1am Eastern. And you might be wondering why they're doing it in the middle of the night. Why? Why? Well, Senator Elizabeth Warren has a theory about that. She joins me here at the table when we come back.

[Rachel Maddow]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Jen Psaki]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Jen Psaki]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Jen Psaki]

Okay, any minute now, we are expecting a new version of Trump's quote, unquote, big, beautiful bill to be released to the public. And if we get any more details, we will share them with you. I certainly hope it's in the next few minutes so I can talk to my next guest about it. It's highly unlikely that anyone will get much of a chance to pore over what Republicans have changed in the more than 1,000 page bill before the House Rules Committee takes the bill up tonight at 1am and no, you are not mishearing me. The House Rules Committee is set to take up the bill at 1am tonight. Now, why did Republicans schedule a hearing on Trump's big spending bill that late? Because they did it on purpose. They are rushing on purpose. I mean, last week, Republicans appeared to be caught off guard by provisions in their own bill that even they did not know about. But late on Sunday night, the House Budget Committee advanced the bill anyway. That meeting was at 10pm a little earlier than 1am I suppose. Now, according to House Budget Committee rules, Republicans had to give the Democratic minority 48 hours to respond after advancing the bill out of that committee, which would make the earliest Republicans could meet midnight tonight. The House Rules Committee then requires a notice of at least one hour before the committee can act on any legislation, which is how Republicans landed on 1am tonight. It is literally the earliest they could have possibly taken up the bill. That's how they got to 1am Like I said, they are rushing this because they don't want you or even their fellow members of Congress, it seems, to read the fine print in the bill. It's no surprise as to why this is a bill that the latest Congressional Budget Office report says would kick 8.6 million people off their health insurance. 8.6 million. Joining me now to help us understand the impact this Rush bill could have on our country is Senator Elizabeth Warren from the great state of Massachusetts. So there's no one I'd rather talk to about this. As we were talking about what is happening today, there's so many things. Few things impact more people than this bill could impact. Let me just start by asking you, I mean, today, Trump claimed that as far as Medicaid is concerned, the bill would only cut waste, fraud and abuse, which I know is absolute baloney. But I need you in the best Elizabeth Warren, Senator way to explain to everyone why that is absolute baloney.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Well, it's absolute baloney because what it's going to do is it's going to cut the money available to help people have health care coverage. And who is mostly going to cut it from are little tiny babies from mamas who've just given birth, from people with disabilities, from seniors living in nursing homes. And it's just going to take away the money they would use to pay for health care, to pay for their health care services. And by the way, I just want to underscore here, it obviously hurts those people. It hurts their families. Some people will try to get health care anyone, they'll go deeper into debt. Others just won't go to the hospital, won't go to the doctor's office, won't get the baby checked out. And then they end up in the hospital. And if they have no health insurance, you can take away whatever they've got. But at the end of the day, particularly our rural hospitals, our community hospitals are going to be the ones who are going to be giving out uncompensated care. And we're already hearing in Massachusetts and other places around the country, if Congress makes those cuts, it not only hurts the millions of families that lose their health care coverage, it hurts their communities, it hurts their local hospitals and health care providers because they're just not going to get paid. That is what Donald Trump seems to think is waste, fraud and abuse.

[Jen Psaki]

That was a very effective summary. There is a lot in this bill. We've talked a lot about Medicaid. A lot of my colleagues talked about Medicaid. What else should we be talking about, from what you've seen, that is most concerning to you?

[Elizabeth Warren]

I think the thing that is most concerning to me overall is that it's cuts in places like head start. 800,000 children rely on Head Start every Year. And here's the thing, Jen. It's not nearly as many as need and want Head Start. Nearly every Head Start place has a waiting list longer than your arm because mamas and daddies want to get those babies into Head Start. It is high quality care for those children. And the children who go through Head Start, they just have better experiences in life. They're healthier, they do better in school, they're ready for kindergarten, they're ready for high school, they're ready for college, they're ready for work. The studies have shown this over and over. So here we are already not putting enough into Head Start and they're already chopping it. And what does that mean for the families? It means obviously this baby doesn't get the start this baby needs. But think what else where the rest of the damage is. The mama who's now on scramble. What are you going to do with that? 18 month old mama could quit her job and just stay home. That's not something the Republicans want, right? Mama still tries to go to work or Papa still tries to go to work. You try to find someplace else. We're already short on health care everyplace else in the country and prices are through the roof. So you put the baby in a suboptimal place. A place maybe the lady down the street who's got 15 kids, parks them in front of a TV set. Mama still scrambles and Daddy still scrambles and tries to work again. What we're talking about is cutting these programs and it just wrecks families and it wrecks our future. No nation builds a strong future by shortchanging its children. And yet that is exactly what the Republicans want to do.

[Jen Psaki]

No question about it. And Head Start is such a pivotal program. I have to ask you. I started the show by playing in part your questioning of Billy Long during the hearing today. I felt in the moment like maybe I was in trouble watching it. But I just want to know, I mean, you were asking him essentially to read something in front of him.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah.

[Jen Psaki]

What were you thinking in that moment? And why do you think he wouldn't answer any of those questions?

[Elizabeth Warren]

So let me give you a little backstory to this one. Billy Long came to see me three weeks ago after he'd been nominated to come around, see the senators who are on the relevant committees. And I sat down with him and I said, really important, if you are going to be the commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, it is important that you follow the law. And here's the law in America. And that is no One, not even the President of the United States gets to tell the irs, go after that guy. Go audit that person over there. Because we decided after Richard Nixon was president, no more weaponizing the irs. IRS is there to collect taxes, make sure everybody follows the law, and that's it. Start to finish, side to side. So I said to him, if Donald Trump asks you to do something that's illegal, to go after a particular taxpayer and do something to hurt them, what will you do? He said, well, I don't know. The law, mumble, fumble. And I said, okay, that's fine. I'm going to give you a copy of the law, and when you come in for your hearing, I'm going to ask you about this. So you've got all this time. Go talk to lawyers. We sat down this morning, and I just asked him, I said, donald Trump. And I read the quote, has said, we're going to take. He said, they are going to take away the tax exempt status of Harvard University. In other words, tell the IRS to single out one taxpayer and punish that taxpayer because that taxpayer would not bend a knee to Donald Trump. And I said, Mr. Long, you want to be the commissioner of the IRS? Is that illegal? And it was mumble, fumble, dumble. No. And there's a reason for that, because what he is making clear is that he's not going to cross Donald Trump. And when Donald Trump asks him to do something that is illegal, he will find a way to shuffle, to turn, to twist, to dance, but not to actually say, sorry, Mr. President, that is not legal, and we will not do that at the irs. And given that that is the case. Because keep in mind, this isn't just Harvard. This is anyone who crosses Donald Trump can be in the crosshairs of the irs. This could be Planned Parenthood. It could be the aclu. Shoot. It could be your church. It could be your pastor who says something. It could be your rabbi who somehow ends up offending, defending Donald Trump. You could be the next one in the crosshairs. I want to know that we have an IRS commissioner who is willing to say to the President, we will not take an illegal order from you. And he won't say that he should not be within 1,000 miles of the IRS.

[Jen Psaki]

Senator Warren, I'm so happy you're there questioning people. Thank you for being here with me tonight. I really appreciate it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

Coming up, Caroline Levitt has been taking some questions in the briefing room. Her answers haven't exactly been up to par. So I'm gonna step in and Answer some of the questions myself right after the quick break. So yesterday, Caroline Levitt did another White House briefing. So I figured why not take a crack at some of the questions again. Okay, so let's start with CNN's Elena Treen. Go ahead, Elena. I want to ask you about the House bill, budget bill. So does the president agree with Republicans behind this bill that Medicaid work requirements.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Should be implemented as soon as 2026?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, Elena, the president is not exactly a policy wonk. What he really seems to care about is making sure that his big, beautiful bill includes tax cuts for the highest income. And that is going to require massive cuts to Medicaid. Did you have another one? Go ahead.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Just a quick follow up.

[Jen Psaki]

Is the president okay with this bill adding to the deficit? Oh, Elena, Trump is a lot of things. A fiscal hawk is not one of them. In fact, the national debt rose by almost $7.8 trillion during his first term. Okay, Peter Doocy, good to see you again, my friend from FOX News. Go ahead. Two more things. Putin ghosted everybody at these peace talks last week. As President Trump phones him today to try to figure out an end to the Ukraine war. Does he think that Putin is the good guy or the bad guy? I love a doozy question. Okay, it's no secret that Trump has long openly admired Vladimir Putin. He has even blamed Ukraine, not Putin, for starting the invasion of Ukraine, which is crazy. And his efforts to end the war appear to be really kind of about letting Putin have large chunks of Ukraine and pulling back resources that would allow Ukraine to fight back. So, no, I think he doesn't think Putin is the bad guy. Okay, Peter, you had a follow up.

[Lamonica MacGyver]

Any question?

[Jen Psaki]

The last one. What does President Trump mean when he says that Taylor Swift is no longer hot? I mean, Peter, the president means he's mad at her for endorsing Kamala Harris, for being actually a legit billionaire and for, yes, actually being hot. It's not really more complicated than that. Okay, we have time for one more. Travis Gilmore from the Epoch Times. Why the hell not?

[Marco Rubio]

Any updates on Greenland? Will the president be making any trips? And do we have any details you can share with us?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, Travis, my bet is this. If the budget bill falls apart and if the president keeps losing in the courts, I bet he makes a last minute trip to Greenland to bring a plane full of reporters and all of you there and change the subject. That's why he would do it. Thanks, everyone. Glad we could clear some things up. Coming up, Senator Chris Murphy grilled Secretary of State Rubio on Trump's $400 million palace in the sky today, and he's coming up.

[Marco Rubio]

Is it your understanding that this luxury plane that Qatar has offered the president and the president has announced he's willing to accept is a gift to the United States government, or is it a gift ultimately to the president himself that he can use in his library?

[Chris Murphy]

Well, you'd have to talk to the Department of Defense because this is a replacement or at least a temporary bridge plane for Air Force One.

[Marco Rubio]

It's not your understanding that the plane ultimately will belong to the president or to the president's library after.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, I don't. I'm not involved at that level of it. I've heard. I've never heard that before.

[Jen Psaki]

And joining us now after that girling today is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Senator, it's good to see you. I mean, I played a clip of that earlier in the show. I wanted to play the longer version. You go pretty far back with Secretary Rubio. You've known him, you served with him. When you're questioning him like that, I mean, were you thinking he doesn't actually know or that he is taking this strategy of just, I'm going to pretend I don't know. What were you thinking?

[Marco Rubio]

Yeah. I mean, what I know is that Marco is a political animal. It's really hard to believe that he's never heard that the president is likely going to hold onto this plane after he leaves office. Later in that questioning, I asked him about this meeting that Trump is having with the top 200 buyers of his meme coin because it's reported that most of those are going to be foreigners. Most likely they are to talk with the president about national security favors they want. Secretary Rubio said he had never heard about this dinner on Thursday night, and he couldn't opine at all as to whether there were going to be state secrets shared in that meeting. I mean, it's kind of beyond the point where you can give any of these guys the benefit of the doubt. It just is incredible that they haven't heard of these scandals. And they're likely just, you know, trying to get out of what is admittedly really tough questioning about the very high cataclysmic level of brazen corruption happening in this White House right now.

[Jen Psaki]

No question, that's my theory, too. But you're in there grilling them, so you know better than me. But even on the meme coin front, I mean, the winner was announced of this meme coin competition. It's a Chinese crypto mogul, which you can't really make up. Justin Sun. I don't even. There's so much to unpack there, but I just, I'm just going to give you the floor on that one. On, on what, what, what you think about it.

[Marco Rubio]

Well, as I said, what we know is that most of the top 200 buyers are foreign individuals. And if you're a foreign individual who has enough money to buy this level of meme coin to be invited to meet with the president privately, you are probably a Gulf prince, an oligarch, a friend of Vladimir Putin. You're not showing up to meet with Trump on Thursday night because you just like the guy or you're a fan of the Maga cult. You're in the room because you have instructions to try to get something from the president to trade your investment in his crypto coin for some national security favor. The fact that Marco Rubio doesn't know or doesn't care that this secret meeting with foreign individuals trying to persuade the president to gift favors to foreign nations is happening, I mean, it should be scary to every single American who I think now knows for sure that if you have money, you can buy access to the president if you are a domestic CEO or a billionaire. But also if you're a foreign oligarch, that's a really scary world to live in. If you're just a regular American who doesn't have the millions or billions of dollars necessary to bribe your way into a meeting or into influence with President Trump.

[Jen Psaki]

We only have about a minute here left, but one of the things I often get asked when I run into people is what can be done about it. And you and so many others are raising these issues and raising these questions, pressing people. Republicans, a number of them, have expressed concern, but they don't seem to be doing a lot. What are the other options you have at your disposal?

[Marco Rubio]

Well, what we need to do is force votes right now, and I'll give you an example that's pending in the Senate this week. Right now, we have a bill to regulate Stablecoin, and that's one of Trump's crypto scams. That's the scam that the UAE bought in on. And right now, the version of the bill before the Senate exempts the president from the ethics requirements. It says it's illegal for a member of Congress to offer up a stablecoin, but it's legal for the president to do it. We should close that loophole. Democrats and Republicans should join together and close that loophole. We should have a vote on an amendment to close that loophole. So we have the chance right now, Democrats actually have the chance right now to shut down some of that corruption and we should make it a priority. It should be a priority for Republicans, but it should also be a priority for Democrats right now.

[Jen Psaki]

Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so much. We'll be right back. Okay. A very quick programming note before we go. Tomorrow night, House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi will join me here at the table. It's safe to say there is plenty to talk about, including the 1am Vote on this bill. That does it for me tonight.

[Rachel Maddow]

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