Host/Announcer (2:19)

No, I wasn't aware of it.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (2:20)

No, I didn't.

Host/Announcer (2:22)

I actually haven't spoken to him about it. I wasn't. But from what I hear, he was there with his wife and children. And I guess in some cases, some people were. I wasn't. I was never there. Somebody will someday say that I was never there.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (2:37)

Okay, first of all, I love the way he starts his answer by saying, I wasn't aware of it, which is not believable. But okay, maybe that's his approach. I wasn't aware of it. And then in the next breath makes it clear that he is, in fact very, very aware of it. And the fact that he is so quick to assert that he has never been on the island himself, it kind of feels like he's throwing his Commerce Secretary under the bus there. I mean, was that Donald Trump, the former best friend of Jeffrey Epstein, admitting out loud how bad it looks to have visited the island? Because it sure sounded like that to me. And Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick is hardly the only senior member of the administration taking heat for his association with Epstein. I mean, we all just learned that yet another member of Trump's administration is in the Epstein files. Trump's administrator of Medicare and Medicaid, Dr. Mehmet Oz, appears to have invited Jeffrey Epstein to a Valentine's day party in 2016. Now, he hasn't been accused of any wrongdoing, but that invitation to came long after Epstein first pleaded guilty to soliciting sex with underage girls. Long after who wouldn't want that creepy man at their party celebrating love? I mean, Dr. Oz wanted him there, apparently. So there's that. The number of people in Trump's orbit who associated with Epstein really does seem to grow by the day. There's a new story every day, and that is to say nothing of the thousands of times Trump himself is mentioned in the files. But guess what? Things are not going much better for the members of the Cabinet who may have been breathing a sigh of relief because they are not in the Epstein files. I mean, this was the scene outside a Border Patrol facility in Otay Mesa, California, today, where DHS Secretary Kristi Noem was making an appearance to tout Trump's border policies. Protesters who had gathered outside the facility. You can see them there. You can hear them there were chanting.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (4:32)

Shame.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (4:32)

That's what they're saying right now. So loudly that police vehicles appeared to be blaring their sirens just to drown out the noise again of people screaming shame. All of which led to a scene inside the facility where Kristi Noem basically struggled even to hear the question she was being asked. It was so chaotic, this whole scene. I'm going to show it to you. It almost felt like a spoof of a Kristi Noem press conference. Okay, good. Good afternoon, everybody. I think you're asking about detention facilities and the standards in. Are you talking about our funding bill? I heard you ask about Operation Metro Surge and CBP and ICE and what was the 287G? I'm sorry, what was that? I couldn't hear you over the sounds of outrage and alarm that follow me everywhere I go. So I'm sorry if I didn't, as articulately as usual, spew my venom towards immigrants because I couldn't hear you over the sirens and the screaming of shame. Now, that gnome scene comes just one day after Trump's Attorney general spent five hours. And we talked a lot about this last night. Embarrassing herself before Congress, shouting like an unhinged mean girl at lawmakers and evading questions, pretty much all of them, about her handling of the Epstein files. At one point, she even tried to deflect a question about why she hadn't charged any of Epstein's associates by saying that this was all a distraction from the Dow breaking 50,000 points. And yes, it was as awkward as it sounds. And that bizarre moment in the hearing yesterday wasn't just a forgotten blip. I mean, we talked about it, but it wasn't forgotten. I mean, that performance has led to a chorus of outrage from MAGA supporters, with multiple pro Trump voices even calling on her, Pam Bondi to resign. And by the way, today the market dropped 600 points, bringing the Dow back below 50,000. So there's that awkwardness, too. Look, the Trump administration is not having a good time right now. That's one way of putting it. It's not just protesters and MAGA podcasters who are rejecting their agenda. Yesterday, the Republican controlled Congress failed to stop a bill to end some of Trump's disastrous tariffs from reaching the House floor. The bill passed with six Republicans joining nearly all Democrats in a humiliating blow to Trump's signature economic proposal. And it's not just that. It's not even just Congress. Where he controls Congress, the Republicans do. His agenda is also losing in the courts over and over and over again. I mean, this week, a federal grand jury rejected the Trump administration's attempt to indict six Democratic lawmakers for participating in a video to remind service members that they shouldn't follow unlawful orders. And just today, federal judge blocked Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth from trying to punish Senator Mark Kelly because he's still at it. Pete Hegseth for participating in that same video. In a scathing opinion, the judge said, quote, rather than trying to shrink the First Amendment liberties of retired service members, Secretary Hegseth and his fellow defendants might reflect and be grateful for the wisdom and expertise that retired service members have brought to public discussions and debate on military matters in our nation over the past 250 years. There you go. Those are just a few I could go on. Of many court losses the Trump administration has suffered recently, including several that have come down in just the last few hours. I mean, earlier today, a federal judge ended the Trump administration's deportation case against the father of three US Marines who was detained while landscaping outside an IHOP in Southern California last summer. In another decision today, a federal judge ordered the administration to facilitate the the return of 137 men who were deported at the beginning of Trump's term after this administration labeled them gang members. Then the administration faced another setback in the case of two men accused of attacking ICE agents with a shovel, one of whom was shot by ICE during the incident. Well, tonight, the Trump administration was forced to drop all criminal charges against those men. They were forced to admit in a court filing that, quote, newly discovered evidence in this matter is materially inconsistent with the allegations they had made. You don't say. And just before we came on air, a Trump appointed judge issued a particularly stinging order mandating that ICE give all of the detainees in Minneapolis access to a private lawyer. She wrote, quote, it appears that in planning for the crackdown in Minneapolis, the government failed to plan for the constitutional rights of its civil detainees. The government suggests, with minimal explanation and even less evidence that doing so would result in. In chaos. The Constitution does not permit the government to arrest thousands of individuals and then disregard their constitutional rights because it would be too challenging to honor those rights. Yeah, I mean, they just also, by the way, all of that, they just kept losing. They keep losing in court. The entire cabinet is a dumpster fire. And they cannot shake the lingering stink of the Epstein files. They're weak right now and, and they know it. And all of that brings me to what is arguably the Trump administration's biggest loss of all this week, because today, Donald Trump supporters are. Tom Homan announced that the administration will end its immigration enforcement surge in Minneapolis now, to be clear. And I said this is the beginning of the show and that's how I feel. But most importantly is how people in Minneapolis feel. Both residents and public officials in Minneapolis are appropriately taking out. We'll believe it when we see it approach to this announcement. And Homan is claiming that a small footprint of officers will still remain in the area for an unspecified period of time. So that could mean a lot of things, especially from someone who played a leading role in the family separation policy, who works for an administration that lives with abandon, could mean a lot of things. But the fact that the administration felt the need to make this announcement at all is a sign that they know they are losing on this issue and are desperate for some kind of an exit strategy. And you can tell how desperate they are by listening to the way Tom Homan tried to claim some sort of victory and success today.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (10:37)

This surge operation and our work here with state and local officials to improve.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (10:42)

Coordination and achieve mutual goals, as well.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (10:45)

As our efforts to address issues of.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (10:47)

Concern here on the ground, have yielded.

Host/Announcer (10:50)

The successful results we have came here for.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (10:56)

According to Tom Holman. It was. It was all a success. This whole nightmare we've been watching unfold. Their work with state and local officials achieved our mutual goals. We wanted to come into Minneapolis, terrorize people in their communities, arrest and even kill American citizens. And we succeeded at that. Good on you, Tom Homan and the Trump administration. Now, not one of those state and local officials who have been dealing with this situation agrees with Tom Homan. The that there have been successful efforts to achieve mutual goals or address issues of concern. There was no Kumbaya moment between local officials and ice. In fact, in the wake of this news, those local officials made it clear this fight is not over. And ICE still has a lot to answer for in Minnesota.

Host/Announcer (11:40)

The fact of the matter is they.

Andrew Buckai (11:42)

Left us with deep damage, generational trauma.

Host/Announcer (11:45)

They left us with economic ruin.

Andrew Buckai (11:48)

In. In some cases, they left us with many unanswered questions. Where are our children?

Host/Announcer (11:56)

Where and what is the process of.

Andrew Buckai (11:59)

The investigations into those that were responsible for the deaths of Renee and Alex? You don't get to break things and.

Host/Announcer (12:07)

Then just leave without doing something about it.

Andrew Buckai (12:10)

Nationwide, they were looking to implement a national agenda based on coercing us to change local policy. And here's the thing. We didn't. The people of Minneapolis stood up. They stood up for their neighbors. They loved on each other. And I think that's the kind of patriotism that is ultimately going to get us through this.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (12:28)

Now what's clear is that this potential retreat, and let's hope it is, is the result of sustained and relentless pressure from the people of Minnesota. They're winning this battle. The Trump administration is losing. And Tom Homan and Stephen Miller and Donald Trump may want us all to move on to other things, to stop questioning, to stop pushing, to stop advocating. Because if everyone does that, then they can proceed without accountability. It's going to take that same sustained and relentless pressure to ensure that Minneapolis gets the justice it deserves. And joining me now is someone who is very committed to that. I know from seeing her talk about this many times, Senator Amy Klobuchar, who recently announced that she's running for governor of Minnesota. It's great to see you. I have not seen you since you announced your running, so thank you. There you are.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (13:12)

Okay, so time like no other.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (13:14)

Time like no other, really, you know, and I hate to be a skeptic, but it's important to be a skeptic. That's what we do here. And the Trump administration is saying it's ending. They're a large scale immigration operation in Minnesota. That's obviously a victory, even that they're saying that. But you and other leaders in the state have emphasized that it's not over and a lot needs to happen. So what is the next first step you think needs to happen here?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (13:39)

So today it is a deep breath. Director Homan has told this to me and the mayor and the governor say 10 days ago that there was going to be this drawdown and we hope that he's true to his word and we're going to hold him to it. But for us, this was about the people of Minnesota standing up, staring them down like I don't think anyone ever had seen before. And basically this was a moment where they said, that's it. However, we know a few things still have to happen. Accountability for the deaths of Alex Preddy and for Renee Goode. Renee Goode's last words, I don't hate you, man. And the last words of Alex Preddy as he's talking to a woman who'd been shoved down, saying, are you okay? Innocent American citizens. Then you have all the people who were thrown out of their homes or doors, rammed through like the Hmong elder dragged in his underwear into a car, driven around for an hour, only to have them realize, we got the wrong guy. This guy's fine. And the guy that we're trying to get has been in prison for years. Little kids, the five year old Liam with his bunny hat, two year Old, so many families affected, racial profiling with so many people that literally couldn't believe it happened. But we, we are going to get through this. But the country has to get through this. And to me, that means looking at a budget as values. $75 billion for an agency. What did they use that money for? Dragging little Liam out and sending him to Texas and bringing him back. $75 billion to surround schools and scare kids. But that's what the Republicans put in that big, beautiful betrayal of a bill. So there's funding issues. Put that money. $75 billion, Jen, could pay for the health care premiums for three years on the Affordable Care act for all of America, for the tax credits. $75 billion. It could be used for local law enforcement and housing and the like. So that's one thing. The other is, of course, major reforms that we need to be seen done to this agency.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (15:45)

And I want to dig into all of that. Let me ask you about the timing of this announcement.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (15:49)

Yes.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (15:49)

So you said you knew several days ago.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (15:51)

He talked to me.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (15:52)

He talked to you. But there's a deadline tomorrow. I mean, of course, it didn't pass the Senate today, but there's a deadline tomorrow night. There's a theory out there that Tom Homan made this announcement to try to convince some people, some Democrats, to agree to a deal. What do you think about that? Has it worked with anyone?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (16:12)

I literally raised to him on the phone and people at the White House over the last few weeks. Our people are not going to be bargaining chips. Okay? We need ICE out to even begin having this discussion. And in fact, he did say 10 days ago that it would be about two weeks. They did draw down some of the border control agents. And then he said the next group would be ice. And he said in two different drawdowns. I was actually concerned that it hadn't been announced earlier what he had told me over the phone. But now it is announced and for us. By the way, people keep asking me, what can we do to help? We love Minnesota. What can we do to help? And we don't need any more cards or Valentine's cards. We actually hope people come to our beautiful state, stay in those hotel rooms when the ICE agents are out, go to see the First Avenue where Prince got his start or the Mall of America or beautiful Lake Superior bike when it gets warmer on our bike paths. That's what we want. We want people to come to our state and spend money and invest in our state because our economy has taken a hit. This has been $18 million a week spent on all it was. And I'm sure that when the numbers are going to be shown here, we know the vast majority of the people arrested were not the worst of the worst. They were not violent offenders. If that was their purpose, do it. If their purpose was to investigate fraud, do it. But instead, what they did was they came here and terrorized our citizens.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (17:38)

Let's talk about ICE for a second and kind of what an acceptable presence would be. As I understand, and you can correct me on the numbers here, I think the current governor said that before they came in, before they surged, it was about 100 ICE officials on the ground.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (17:51)

That's correct.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (17:52)

Or 150. About 150. And that Tom Homan has said it would go back to about 100. 150.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (17:59)

He called it the original footprint.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (18:01)

Is that number acceptable and what other restrictions? I know there are some being negotiated here, but you're also running for governor. What other restrictions on ICE operations and how they work in the state of Minnesota would you like to see?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (18:13)

Well, we always know there's going to be some immigration enforcement, but they have to follow as we are working to get in their rules here, police rules of conduct. And I know what Chief o', Hara, I just saw him on Sunday. Minneapolis Police Chief o' Hara and so many of our other police chiefs across the state are saying you've got to coordinate with us. If you want to bust up some major drug ring and work with us on something as they have in the past, fine. But if you're just here running about in your cars and terrorizing our citizens and breaking through their windows and dragging out people with disabilities out of their cars and sending them to a detention center. No. So we are going to be vigorously holding Tom Homan and this administration to their promise, but then also demanding that they work if they do have a presence. And it is supposed to be the original footprint they had, that they are working with our law enforcement, because our law enforcement still has the trust of the people of Minnesota. Not ice, but our local law enforcement.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (19:16)

Okay. There's many more questions to ask about. One of the many hats you wear is also that you're on the Commerce Committee.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (19:22)

Yes.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (19:22)

I don't know if you've heard, but the Commerce Secretary has been in a little bit of hot water.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (19:26)

Yes, I've been hearing this.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (19:28)

We gotta take a quick break.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (19:29)

Went on an excursion in the.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (19:30)

Went on an excursion to an island. We gotta take a quick break. But I wanna talk to you about that, too. When we go back.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (19:34)

Okay, great.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (19:52)

Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota is back with me, as promised. You wear a thousand hats. I don't know when you sleep. I don't know if you noticed that there was a crazy cuckoo hearing yesterday, a couple crazy hearings yesterday.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (20:06)

I remember we had a similar one with the attorney general in the Senate.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (20:10)

Yes, there you go. Crazy hearings. And I want to ask you about that. But before the break, I mentioned Howard Lutnick. You're on the Commerce Committee. He had to admit under oath earlier this week that he had, in fact, kept up his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein enough that he went to the island with his children. There are a number of your colleagues, Senator Jackie Rosen, Adam Schiff, others calling for him to resign. Where do you stand on it?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (20:34)

You know, I. Well, I didn't vote for him in the first place.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (20:36)

You're like, is it time?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (20:37)

But I just. All of these people that seem to have just gotten amnesia and they don't remember that they were cavorting on an island. I would remember when I went to an island on a private plane.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (20:49)

Yeah.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (20:49)

Hasn't really happened. So I would remember this. And they just don't seem to remember this in the past. And in fact, the fact that they haven't been honest about it, that they've been hiding it, and the fact that we still don't really, when the victims were there at that hearing trying to get justice, and now we're finding out as members of Congress to go over there and see the unredacted versions of these documents, we are literally, I guess, going to be under surveillance. As they looked at Congresswoman Jayapol's, her search of what she did when she looked at the documents, instead of putting them in some kind of classified setting over at the Congress, of which we have many, we are asked to go over there and look at these things with them watching us. They've done a lot of this, by the way. They did this with some of the Venezuela documents as well. Someone sat there reading their book while we were looking at them watching over us. And I just think that the victims deserve justice here. And they have been hiding these. And you've seen from what happened with Pam Bondi at this hearing that there was pushback at her from both the right and the left. But she was an equal opportunity aggressor against all her questioners, whether they be Republicans like Representative Massie or whether they be Democrats. But it is an unbelievable lack of respect when people are simply trying to ask you, with dozens of victims sitting in a hearing room. And then you decide to use your moment not to reach out to them and not to talk about how you're going to help them and give them justice. And instead, you just start yelling insults at members of Congress, which she is very good at.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (22:32)

It is, it's just an affront to the law. And I'm not even a lawyer. And you have been, I mean, you know, so many of the levers that can be used here. I mean, you're the former Hennepin county attorney. You're a sitting senator. You're running for governor. And this question of sort of how can justice be served for Alex Preddy's family, for Renee Good's family, what are the levers here that can still be pulled?

Senator Amy Klobuchar (22:56)

Well, there is one big lever, and that is that we have three equal branches of government, and that is the court. So going into a year of Donald Trump, we looked at the numbers and 75% of the court cases against the Trump administration have been won. People don't know that because they don't usually appeal them. They tend to pay out the grants. When the court comes in and you have here, and you'll hear from Attorney General Ellison about this, who has been taking the lead in making sure that there's accountability in these two cases, they still don't have all the information. Our very professional Bureau of Criminal Apprehension for the state of Minnesota have all the information that they need. So those investigations are ongoing with the attorney general and the county attorney in one case, in the other coordinating with the federal government and the FBI. Both cases have to be thoroughly investigated. There must be transparency and there must be justice for these families.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (23:53)

That is a perfect tee up. Senator Amy Klobuchar, because that's literally who we're speaking to next.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (23:59)

Maybe I saw it at the bottom of your screen.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (24:01)

I just, it's a little tip, perfect tip, because there's lots of questions to ask him. Thank you so much for being here, as always. We're going to sneak in a quick break, but coming up next, the Trump administration does not seem, well, very interested in getting to the truth on the issues we were just talking about in these two cases.

Andrew Buckai (24:20)

They're stonewalling you.

Host/Announcer (24:21)

That's. Yes.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (24:25)

That'S pretty clear. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison delivered some stunning testimony, powerful testimony on Capitol Hill today. And he joins me next. Why have I asked my h vac guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts? I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.

Host/Announcer (24:51)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (24:54)

Aw. See Pop Pop trusts you.

Andrew Buckai (24:57)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (26:08)

21/. One of the big outstanding questions about the chaos and deadly force the Trump administration brought to Minnesota is whether the there will ever be accountability for what they did there. I was just speaking with Senator Klobuchar about this. I mean, earlier today the Senate Homeland Security Committee held a hearing on the administration's operation in Minnesota and among the witnesses was Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison. And today in that hearing, Attorney General Ellison revealed that the Trump administration is still stonewalling the investigations into the killings of Renee Good and Alex Preddy.

Andrew Buckai (26:48)

Can you describe the coordination between DHS or DOJ with the state and local officials into the investigations of the tragic shootings of Renee Good and Alex Preddy.

Host/Announcer (26:59)

We're hoping that we can gain cooperation perhaps in the pretty matter, but we've been advised that the good matter is the Feds are not investigating it and we still haven't received any access to the evidence that is involved in that case.

Andrew Buckai (27:14)

In these two cases, they're stonewalling you.

Host/Announcer (27:17)

That's yes.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (27:21)

Joining me now is Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison. I was so looking forward to talking to you because I think we can't get we have to be clear eyed about the Tom Homan announcement today and see what happens. But also there's so much that still needs to happen and you're such an important player in all of that and you say, you said today I just played it, that the Trump administration has been stonewalling your state's investigation into these two killings. You gave some of the details there. But tell us, everybody watching right now, what are you asking for that they are continuing to refuse to provide? Give us all the details on that.

Host/Announcer (27:55)

Well, we were asking for what we've been used to for years and years and years. State and federal cooperation in Minnesota is not an unusual thing. It's generally how we do business all the time. And when there's a homicide, particularly an officer involved one, it's routine for state and federal investigations to run parallel, for there to be information sharing, things like that. In the Renee Good matter, we still don't have access to things like shell casings, the car, the gun and other, any statements that may have been acquired or anything like that. Now, we are doing a parallel investigation, but it's separate and it is based on video we've been able to get on to get from people who've shared it and things like that. Things are moving. I want the public to know that. But still, there is critical information the federal government has in its possession, as it has already said that it is closed, any kind of civil rights, use of force investigation into the death of Renee Good.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (29:02)

You seem to say Alex Preddy, they've been more cooperative. I know there's been reporting on that as well, a little bit. Or how would you describe that? I don't want to overstate it for you.

Host/Announcer (29:13)

They have said that they're considering doing a joint investigation.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (29:18)

Okay.

Host/Announcer (29:19)

Up until now, they have said, no, you can't have access to. To the information going forward. We hope that we can gain some cooperation. Let me be clear. I don't think it's the local authorities who are saying this. I think this is a call from Washington, maybe the highest authority in the land. We still work with local partners. We respect and appreciate them. We're hoping we can get back to business as usual.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (29:52)

So you think. I mean, that's what I would think, that local authorities are so used to cooperating, there has to be someone from somewhere who's telling them not to, when it would be traditional to. Where does your head go on that? You think it's Pam Bondi, you think it's in the White House. Where do you think it's being stopped?

Host/Announcer (30:10)

I hate to speculate, but I can tell you that the moment we heard terms like domestic terrorists to describe both Renegood and Alex Preddy, we kind of knew that we weren't dealing with A independent fair investigation from the very beginning. I mean, they'd already, the highest leadership had already come to a conclusion as to what happened there. But I know that the men and women of the FBI in Minnesota, hardworking, serious people who want to do the right thing.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (30:44)

It sounds like there are some members of Congress who should be hauling some of these people in and asking them some of these questions. If you're watching out there, there's lots of questions to be asked. I wanted to ask you about something else. There was this incredible reporting you may have seen. You had a busy day today from the Minnesota Star Tribune, but I know you're aware of all of this, where it talked about how the mass of resignations at the Minnesota U.S. attorney's office and a soaring immigration caseload. The office has been forced to dismiss cases and those dismissals also exclusively involve defendants charged with major drug crimes. It's a really unbelievable story. We'll share it. For people who haven't seen it, you're living this. But tell people, tell all of us more about the impact of all of this.

Host/Announcer (31:26)

You know, it is incredible. They told us they came here to get rid of the worst of the worst, and yet they have increased crime. Two out of the three homicides this year have been by federal ICE agents. Our local assistant US Attorneys have fired in waves of people, eliminating large many years of anti fraud investigation and prosecution expertise. They have made our state less safe from financial exploitation and from basic safety because of the behavior of this administration. I'm so glad that we're now hearing noises about this drawdown. That is a good thing. It can't happen fast enough for me, unfortunately. Renee Good and Alex Preddy and their families, it happened too late for them. But yeah, the challenges has been from a criminal justice standpoint, public safety. They have told us that this had to do with immigration policy. Yet we're the 28th state when it comes to immigration and undocumented immigrants. Every offer of every claim they make as to why they're here has been rebutted and refuted with the direct evidence. So I think it is about time that they go.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (32:51)

Let's hope we'll be watching. We'll be still talking about it. Attorney General Keith Ellison. Thank you. Thank you for being here. You've had a long day. Okay. Of all the crazy headlines and there are a lot we saw today, this one might just be the craziest. Here it is. Gabbard whistleblower complaint based on intercepted conversation about Jared Kushner. And let's just say I have a lot of questions. I'm sure you do too. Andrew Buckai is the attorney for the whistleblower at the center of the story, and he joins me next.

Andrew Buckai (33:27)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (33:32)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (33:57)

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Andrew Buckai (34:12)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (34:28)

May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

Andrew Buckai (34:32)

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Host/Announcer (34:34)

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Andrew Buckai (34:38)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (34:49)

For more than a week now. We have been following the story of an anonymous whistleblower from the intelligence community who alleges that Trump's Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard spiked a former whistleblower report they filed last year. A whistleblower report about someone close to Donald Trump. Okay, so that's what we knew. That's already kind of edgy. I've been obsessed with the story. And then today we learn that that person close to Donald Trump is none other than Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. As the Wall Street Journal described it today. The report centers around a conversation between two foreign nationals last year discussing Jared Kushner and reportedly Iran. Beyond that, we have no idea what the content of that conversation was, though a senior US official tells EMIs now that the discussion about Kushner was just quote salacious gossip. Okay, we'll see when we learn more. But the whistleblower alleges that Gabbard limited the sharing of that content for political purposes, an allegation Gabbard fiercely denies and which her spokeswoman claims is baseless and politically motivated. Okay. Now, the whistleblower also alleges that the NSA's General Counsel's office failed to report a, quote, potential criminal crime to the Justice Department that was raised by the content of the conversation. I mean, those are some freaking serious allegations. Just to state it, we don't know what's in there, but those are serious allegations. But I just want to. I'm zoom out for a second, because part of what is amazing about this story is the idea that there could still be another shoe left to drop when it comes to our understanding of Jared Kushner and his role in US Diplomacy. I mean, let's just take stock in what we already know just from public reporting. Just days after leaving the White House, Kushner started a brand new venture capital firm and despite having no experience at all, somehow managed to get a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. In the three years after that investment, Kushner's firm got paid at least $112 million in fees from investors while not giving those investors any profits in return. But somehow, even after that track record was made public in 2024, Kushner's firm managed to score another $1.5 billion investment from funds tied to the governments of the UAE and Qatar. Now, Kushner's firm, Affinity Partners, says that everything is on the up and up and by the book. Of course, that's what they say. But even Kushner himself does not shy away from saying what makes his firm such a unique and attractive investment.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (37:11)

What would you say the biggest differentiator is for affinity compared to other growth funds?

Main Interviewer/Anchor (37:17)

We're able to do things on the.

Andrew Buckai (37:18)

Geopolitical side, on the. On the connection side, on the problem.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (37:22)

Solving side that I think that they.

Andrew Buckai (37:23)

Found very valuable as well.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (37:26)

On the connection side, there's lots in there. Now, while Kushner's firm is raking in all of that cash, multiple billions of dollars, from Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds alone, Kushner is also simultaneously serving as a quote, unquote, volunteer for the Trump administration as an off the books foreign diplomat of sorts. Nothing shady about that at all. Amaze. Negotiated ceasefires in Gaza. He's met with Putin to discuss Ukraine. Here he was just last week trying to negotiate a new nuclear deal with Iran. Given how much money Kushner is receiving from countries with a lot at stake in those negotiations. That feels like quite a conflict of interest. And all of that is already public knowledge. That's all public. So, given all of that, what could possibly be in this whistleblower report that could make all of that look any worse? And how can that whistleblower make what they know public? I have the perfect person to ask. Joining me now is Andrew Buckai, the chief legal counsel at Whistleblower Aid and the attorney for the whistleblower at the heart of this story. First of all, you are doing such incredible work right now. We wouldn't know so much of what we know about this government without whistleblowers. So thank you for that.

Andrew Buckai (38:30)

Thank you. And it's not just me. It's my team@whistlebloweraid.org Absolutely.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (38:34)

Okay, so let me start with this. Tulsi Gabbard has defended her decision to not share your client's report with Congress by saying that her office's Inspector General deemed the content of the report not to be credible. That's her argument. That's what others have echoed. What do you make of that defense?

Andrew Buckai (38:51)

First of all, that credibility determination has no bearing on our client's right to take this to Congress by law. One, that disclosure and its contents should be sent to the Senate and House Intelligence committees, and two, our client should be able to and must be able to, by law, meet with those members. Second, the issue of credibility. It's been kind of bothering me for quite some time, because whenever somebody thinks about credibility, they're questioning, you know, is somebody credible? Can you trust this particular individual? In this particular case, what the ICIG or the DNI is looking at is saying, well, because the whistleblower read something in a report or was part of a meeting, and perhaps Tulsi Gabbard herself said, well, I didn't do X because she's first person.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (39:40)

Mm.

Andrew Buckai (39:42)

Her word has taken over somebody else's. In my opinion, that's a questionable way to define or figure out credibility.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (39:50)

I've seen Senator Mark Warner. I've talked to him about this. And Jim Himes and others basically say, we can't make any assessment because it's so redacted. That sounds familiar. Why can't your client just give them an unredacted report?

Andrew Buckai (40:03)

So the first thing, just stepping back for a moment, the reason why the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection act exists is because members of the intelligence community can't just go to the Hill and go to the intelligence committees and provide them classified information. Why well, even though all the staff and senators may have security clearances, they may not be read into the specific issues at hand.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (40:25)

And a need to know.

Andrew Buckai (40:26)

And a need to know. So in this particular case, as it's become public, from what I understand, this would involve the Gang of Eight. So had our client done that, that would have been the mishandling of classified information. Our client did everything right from the get go, even before retaining me and retaining whistleblower8.org, they went to the IG's office. There's also another thing that the IG mentioned, I think, in his statement from last week, which is that there was a lot of classified information. Maybe this was the General counsel. There was a lot of classified information that was put into the intake form. That's not true.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (40:58)

Oh, that's false.

Andrew Buckai (40:59)

That's false. The intake form was only one page. There are subsequent meetings that a whistleblower can have with the IG's officer. They're actually providing evidence, going into the details. So the other thing is, we actually don't know what the Hill received, what Senator Warner has received. It's heavily redacted. And is it just that cover memo? Because if that's the case and it's not including the supplemental evidence.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (41:22)

Let me ask you about the timeline, because you just referenced this. And last year, around the same time that your client filed this formal whistleblower report, the Washington Post reported that Tulsi Gabbard had installed someone inside the Inspector General's office that reported directly to her, which seems sounds incredibly shady to me. Just help us understand the timeline of your client's complaint, when they went to the IG's office and how it relates or could relate, I guess, to Gabbard reshaping her agency. Her agency's Inspector General's office.

Andrew Buckai (41:54)

Oh, absolutely. This raises a lot of questions. So first, the whistleblower first reached out to the Intelligence Committee IGS officer back in mid April of last year. You know, you can pick up the phone, initiate contact and whatnot. And that was in mid April, on May 9th. Dennis Kirk, this person who works for Tulsa Gabbard, she put him into the IG's office. Why is it to monitor what's incoming? We don't know.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (42:20)

So before, he had already gone to the IG's office and then she put her person in there after that?

Andrew Buckai (42:25)

No. So he, so the whistleblower, he or she, they contacted the IG's office. Tulsa Gabbard, reportedly, according to this Washington Post article, put somebody in there and Then the complaint, the disclosure by the whistleblower was filed on May 21. So the timeline is questionable. And then the fact that there is a debate about whether or not the acting inspector general at the time reversed decisions or not. There's just a lot of questions that I have about what did or did not happen here.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (42:56)

We don't have much time left. I could talk to you forever. But they also, the New York Times also reported that while Gabbard was restricting your client's report from getting to Congress, she was providing Colsey Gabbard information, the report to Susie Wiles, which also is out of process here. But why is that hugely problematic?

Andrew Buckai (43:14)

Well, the question is, does Susie Wallace even have a security clearance to see that? One of the things I just want to really hone in on here is that the underlying disclosure was about Tulsi Gabbard blocking intelligence from being distributed within the intelligence community. So I have here my copy of the 911 Commission Report. One of the recommendations of the 911 Commission Report was to ensure that the intelligence community and law enforcement shares highly sensitive and classified information to try and prevent tragedies from happening here. We have the director of National Intelligence. Her office was created because of this going in and preventing the distribution of that intelligence. And the question is, why is that?

Main Interviewer/Anchor (43:55)

Andrew Bockay, I have so many more questions. I hope you come back and keep talking to us as this story develops. Thank you for being here.

Andrew Buckai (44:01)

Thank you.

Main Interviewer/Anchor (44:01)

Okay, we have to sneak in a quick break. We've got a significant update on the search for Nancy Guthrie tonight. We're going to bring that to you when we come back. We are following some new developments today in the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the 84 year old mother of today's show co anchor Savannah Guthrie, who has now been missing for 12 days after forensic analysis of the doorbell camera footage they uncovered earlier this week. The FBI describes their suspect as a male, about 5 foot 9 to 5 foot 10 inches tall with an average build. They also identify the backpack the suspect is wearing as a black 25 liter Ozark Trail hiker pack model. The FBI has collected over 13,000 tips from the public related to Guthrie's case since she was reported missing on February 1st. And they're now increasing the reward for information leading to Guthrie's return or a suspect's arrest to $100,000. Tips can be submitted at tips.FBI.gov or by calling 1-800-call-FBI. Savannah Guthrie also posted footage today of her and her siblings as kids with her mother, adding a note. Our lovely mom. We will never give up on her. Thank you for your prayers and hope. That does it for me tonight.

Andrew Buckai (45:16)

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Main Interviewer/Anchor (45:21)

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Andrew Buckai (45:22)

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Host/Announcer (45:37)

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Andrew Buckai (45:38)

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