Jaws drop as Trump has 'nothing but praise' for Mamdani, boogeyman of right-wing media

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Jaws drop as Trump has 'nothing but praise' for Mamdani, boogeyman of right-wing media”

Podcast: The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Host: Jen Psaki (Ms. Now)
Date: November 22, 2025

---

Overview

This episode dives into a week of political shocks: the surprise resignation of Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene—longtime MAGA loyalist—following a public break with President Trump, and an Oval Office meeting where Donald Trump lavished praise on New York’s Democratic Socialist mayor-elect, Zoran Mamdani, defying expectations of a confrontation. Host Jen Psaki and guests analyze these upsets, the implications for Republican unity and MAGA politics, the shifting political winds around populist messaging, and Trump’s increasingly transactional, self-serving approach to governance.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Resignation and Break with Trump

(00:55 – 07:25)

• Breaking News: MTG will resign from Congress, citing attacks from Trump after she joined Democrats urging release of the full Epstein files. She denounces a hostile MAGA climate and lack of support for her policy priorities.
• Quote – Marjorie Taylor Greene [01:30]:
  “Standing up for American women who were raped at 14 years old, trafficked and used by rich, powerful men should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States whom I fought for.”
• Analysis:
  • Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent) observes that Greene’s “cult-like” cult critique signals her growing frustration with GOP/MAGA orthodoxy.
  • Her isolation reflects the consequences for dissent within the current Republican Party.
  • Greene’s resignation highlights the end of hope for policy movement on MAGA priorities as the party faces likely midterm losses.

---

2. The Trump–Mamdani White House Meeting: The Upside Down

(07:26 – 14:41)

• Expectation vs. Reality: Right-wing media and Trump’s allies primed the public for a “showdown” with Mamdani, portrayed as a “Muslim socialist boogeyman” and “committed Marxist.”
• Surprise Outcome: Trump offered only praise:
  • Quote – Donald Trump [09:25]:
    “I think [Mamdani] is going to surprise some conservative people. Actually, I expect to be helping him, not hurting...I really think he has a chance to do a great job, and I appreciate it.”
• No Concessions: Mamdani did not walk back prior critiques—Trump even brushes off being called a fascist.
• Quote – Trump, unbothered by ‘fascist’ label [10:55]:
  “It’s okay. You just call me a fascist. Cool.”
• Analysis:
  • Trump’s about-face is seen as an olive branch—possibly out of desperation as he faces sinking approval over economic mismanagement (citing multiple polls showing deep voter dissatisfaction).
  • The meeting puts Trump’s allies and media in the awkward position of defending their demonization of Mamdani.

---

3. Perspectives on Political Authenticity and Transactional Leadership

(14:42 – 24:47)

• Rev. Al Sharpton [14:42]:
  “You have transactional leadership, you have transformative leadership. Two transformative leaders stuck up today. One resigned because of women and other issues ... Mandani stood up. He didn’t give up anything…Trump gave up everything.”
• Molly Jong-Fast on Mamdani’s Appeal [16:20]:
  “He’s got a sort of Kennedy…old school Kennedys, that kind of appeal…he’s a uniquely talented politician.”
• Trump Seen as Transactional:
  • Both Sharpton and Jong-Fast emphasize that Trump goes wherever advantageous—driven by polls, not principles.
  • Trump distances himself from hardline MAGA stances (even disavowing Stefanik’s “jihadist” attacks on Mamdani).
• MTG’s authenticity:
  • Despite past opportunism, her advocacy for Epstein survivors is seen as sincere, marking a break from the Republican establishment over principle.

---

4. Unity, Strategy, and the Future of the GOP

(20:11 – 24:47)

• Is MTG setting up a larger role?
  • Sharpton surmises she could lead or open space for “legitimately conservative, legitimately Republican” candidates alienated by Trump’s stance on Epstein files.
• Dividing Lines:
  • Trump’s willingness to ‘throw MAGA allies under the bus’ is noted, hinting at further fractures.
• Mamdani’s Pragmatism:
  • Despite deep policy differences, Mamdani keeps popular NYPD commissioner Jessica Tisch, signaling pragmatism.
  • Both Jong-Fast and Sharpton agree Mamdani’s communication skills and willingness to find common ground are winning broader acceptance.

---

5. Economic Populism and the Double Standard on Socialism

(35:54 – 39:18)

• Irony of “Socialist” Label:
  • Psaki points out that while right-wing media warns Mamdani will “wreck capitalism” via ideas like city-run grocery stores, Trump is taking steps rife with government control:
    • US government stakes in Intel, rare earth mining, and foreign steel corporations under Trump, i.e., partial “nationalization.”
    • Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick’s family benefits from federal AI subsidies.
• Quote – Psaki [35:54]:
  “While the right wing press is up in arms about Mamdani’s idea to have city run grocery stores ... Trump is actually forcing private American companies to bend to the government’s control.”
• Corruption vs. Policy:
  • Trump’s actions are characterized as veering toward oligarchy: using government contracts and subsidies to enrich associates and himself.
  • The MAGA media’s fixation on “socialism” serves to distract from this growing oligarchy.

---

6. Dealing with Authoritarians: Mamdani’s Strategy and Trump’s Motivations

(39:19 – 44:08)

• Pragmatism Required:
  • Guest Ruth Ben-Ghiat (NYU historian) says Mamdani was wise to meet Trump—he can’t improve city life with the President as a sworn enemy.
  • She notes Trump seems to respect victorious political figures, regardless of ideology—his respect for Mamdani is transactional and pragmatic.
  • Trump may see even being called a “fascist” as a compliment or irrelevant if it helps him politically.
• Quote – Ben-Ghiat [40:43]:
  “It’s not out of the realm of possibility that President Trump would consider being called fascist a compliment.”
• On Oligarchy:
  • Ben-Ghiat and Psaki agree that Trump’s administration is shaping into an explicit oligarchy—where national and foreign policy serve only “the enrichment and power-consolidation” of those at the top.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s defiant parting shot at Trump [01:30]:
  “I love my family way too much and I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the President that we all fought for...I refuse to be a battered wife hoping it all goes away and gets better.”

• Jen Psaki, on Trump’s reversal with Mamdani [09:41]:
  “We didn’t make that up. That wasn’t some kind of weird edit—the entire time, nothing but praise.”

• On Trump’s handling of ‘fascist’ label [10:58]:
  “Yeah, it’s okay. You just call me a fascist. Cool.” (paraphrased Trump, via Ms. Now)

• Rev. Sharpton on leadership [14:42]:
  “Mandani stood up. He didn’t give up anything. Let’s remember now, Mandani never conceded anything in his meeting with Trump...and Trump gave up everything.”

• Psaki on ‘real socialism’ in the White House [35:54]:
  “While the right wing press is up in arms about Mamdani’s idea to have city-run grocery stores…Trump is actually forcing private American companies to bend to the government’s control.”

• Ruth Ben-Ghiat on Mamdani-Trump interaction [40:43]:
  “President Trump would consider being called fascist a compliment.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:55 – 07:25 Marjorie Taylor Greene’s resignation and motives
• 07:26 – 14:41 The Trump–Mamdani White House meeting and fallout
• 14:42 – 24:47 Analyzing authenticity and leadership—Trump, Mamdani, and Greene
• 35:54 – 39:18 Trump’s “actual socialism,” government control, and oligarchic drift
• 39:19 – 44:08 Historians and guests: Why Mamdani played nice, Trump’s transactionalism, and the risks of America’s oligarchy

---

Flow and Tone

Throughout, Psaki’s tone is sharp, skeptical, and witty, with a sense of bemusement at the week’s political reversals. Guests provide a mixture of measured insight (Hilliard), fiery analysis (Sharpton), and wry commentary (Jong-Fast). The episode is brisk and layered, offering both a blow-by-blow recounting and broader context on the GOP’s upheaval, the meaning of leadership, and the deepening critique of Trumpist politics and governance.

---

In sum:
This episode captures a political week where old allegiances shattered, right-wing narratives unraveled, and the supposed lines between “populism” and self-dealing oligarchy were laid bare, with Trump’s embrace of Mamdani leaving even his staunchest allies scrambling for new footing.

Transcript

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download Today Find new customers on a platform that's here to stay with TikTok for business, anything is possible. If you've ever thought about advertising your business on TikTok, now is the time to do it. You can drive more customers customers to your website, sell products right in the app, and you can even use TikTok's creative tools to easily make content and find creators to help sell your products for you. Find new customers today. Just open your browser, type in get started.TikTok.com TikTok ads and grow your business fast A lot of news to get to tonight, including as as Chris was talking about that surprise meeting between the surprising meeting between Dora Zoran Mamdani and Donald Trump at the White House. But I have to start with some other breaking news that I didn't also have on the agenda. Republican Congresswoman and conservative vibrant Marjorie Taylor Greene has just announced that she will resign from Congress and leave office on January 5th, basically a full year before the end of her term. The announcement comes just after the longtime MAGA Die Hard publicly broke with the President over the Epstein files, which she fought to make public alongside House Democrats. Tonight, Congresswoman Green made clear that was a factor in her decision.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Standing up for American women who were raped at 14 years old, trafficked and used by rich, powerful men should not result in me being called a traitor and threatened by the President of the United States whom I fought for. I have too much self respect and dignity. I love my family way too much and I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the President that we all fought for only to fight and win my election. While Republicans will likely lose the midterms and in turn be expected to defend the President against impeachment after he hatefully dumped tens of millions of dollars against.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Me and tried to destroy me.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

It's all so absurd and completely unserious. I refuse to be a battered wife.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Hoping it all goes away and gets better. I refuse to be a battered wife hoping it all goes away and gets better. Starting us off tonight is Ms. Now senior White House correspondent Vaughn Hilliard, who's been covering Marjorie Taylor Greene for a long time. Vaughn, she put out a statement put out on X. And that video statement, I think they matched each other says a lot of stuff in there. What's your sense of what motivated her decision to announce her retirement?

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

The fact that she used the word cult like when suggesting that that is the state of political parties in Washington, D.C. because, you know, I think then when fol folks think about the magnification of the Republican Party and one of the first faces that they see is Marjorie Taylor Greene. But when, you know, this evolution of the Republican Party under Donald Trump's her second term, there were a couple occasions in which she sought to step outside the lines of the decisions that were being made out of the White House. And effectively, as she indicates here in this video, that Speaker Johnson was unwilling to even bring up a great many bills to the floor that she was partly responsible for introducing, that she felt like fell in line with that MAGA agenda. But this is where sort of, I think that we are in Washington, D.C. especially around the idea that there's sort of this a lame duck presidency that is awaiting President Trump most likely sooner than later. And Marjorie Taylor Greene is cognizant of that. And this is for a few more months, they will have majorities in the Senate and the House and some of the key major policy initiatives that she wanted to push up on Capitol Hill, they have effectively been blocked. And I think that that is where, you know, the midterm elections, she feels like from the government shutdown to the Epstein debacle over the releasing of these files, that those two issues have run afoul of what the party is effectively able to represent. And so I think now it's a question of are there others like Marjorie Taylor Greene would step out? Because I think she was anticipating a bigger coalition coming to her defense. But that's not what she got.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

Yeah.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

And it's sort of in the middle of her statement where she talks about the Epstein stuff. Her break with Donald Trump about this has been very public and people have talked about it a lot. But if listening to her interviews over the last month or so, it's not just the Epstein stuff. She's taken issue with House Republican leadership over this matter that Democrats were complaining about the extension of the Affordable Care act subsidies. She said she's been getting constituent calls about rural health care, about ACA subsidies. It sounded like she's had it on a lot of fronts. Right.

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

And she's mentioned Tariffs are another example that ultimately it's, you know, the consumers, it's people in her congressional district in Georgia that are paying the cost of it. And it runs perpendicular to the message that in 2024 they went and conveyed to constituents back home. And you can say an awful lot of things about Marjorie Taylor Greene and her political career. We have all watched up close from January 6th in her defense to this day of the pardons for those that were a part of the attack. But and I think that that is where I think it is difficult to even place not just political figures, but more so people on the ground into boxes of ideologies here today. Ali, I know you and I have had ext extensive conversations about this. And I think Marjorie Taylor Greene, in a wild way, is representative of, not of both sides America, but one in which, you know, if you go and talk to pretty much anybody, including viewers watching here tonight, they're on a myriad of issues. People have a different understanding and different lived experience and different things that compel them to politics and to particular candidates. And what you have heard from Marjorie Taylor Greene and from me, talking with people close to her over the last weeks was sort of a, a disgust, a sadness and a frustration that those within the party, the Republican Party, including Donald Trump, did not rally to her defense or not even just rally to her defense, but they went on to attack her, Donald Trump calling her a traitor. And I think it's worth going back to 2022. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene was one of those people calling for Liz Cheney and those folks that voted to impeach Donald Trump to be ousted. But in so many ways, that is where in the last month she's acknowledged that she should have been better herself in the political discour because she didn't speak out in the past years and allowed that sort of politics to play out. And now when it came directed her way, she was in the line of fire. And instead of choosing not to even run, she's just leaving congress altogether on January 5th.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Yeah. It'd be clear if anybody reads her statement or listens to the whole thing. She's not becoming a Democrat anytime soon. She had a lot of fire for Democrats and Democratic policies, too, but most of it seemed to be focused on Donald Trump and MAGA and House leadership. Vaughn, thanks a million for getting us kicked off. An hour ago, you and I were not planning to talk, but always happy that we do. Vaughn Hilliard for us.

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

Thanks.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I would be lying if I said I had Marjorie Taylor Greene announcing her resignation and Donald Trump praising Zoran Mamdani on my bingo card today. But that's how upside down this world is. And before I show you what happened in the Oval Office today, look, you may have seen it and if you have seen it, you're going to want to see it again. And if you haven't seen it, sit down for a second. I want to show you how the Fox at the folks at Fox News Channel set up their expectations for Donald Trump's first face to face encounter with the mayor elect of New York City.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

New York City's Democrat, socialist and arguably Communist mayor elect requested a meeting with.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

President Trump, a self described socialist coming.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Into the seat of American capitalism.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

The showdown at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And we don't expect this to be a Kumbaya moment. He could get a tongue lashing from a president who thought Mamdani's victory speech crossed a line when he told the President to turn up the volume. Don't expect the president welcome Mamdani as a one of a kind expert in what New Yorkers want. I think if it comes to, if it comes to it, both of these men are, are ready for the fight.

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

I would be surprised if the president.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Didn'T challenge him externally or internally or both. I think that President Trump is quite capable of reminding Mayor elect Mamdani who actually wears the pants in this relationship, a showdown Donald Trump was going to show New York's Mayor elect Mazor Mamdani, who wears the pants in their relations. Right wing media was practically salivating over what they expected to be a highly confrontational exchange between the President and the young Democratic socialist who won in a decisive upset victory with a focus on affordability. And yet the event that they billed as a political cage match turned out to be something entirely different. Take a look. I feel very confident that he can do a very good job. But I just want to congratulate, I.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Think you're going to have hopefully a really great mayor.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I think he is going to surprise some conservative people. Actually. I expect to be helping him, not hurting a big help. Would you feel comfortable living in New York City under a Mamdani administrator? Yeah, I would. I really would. I want him to do a great job and we'll help them do a great job. I really think he has a chance.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

To do a great job.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

We're going to help him, but I really think he has a chance to do a great job. I think you really have a chance to make it great and I appreciate it. Mr. President, you say you love me. It really was like that. We didn't make that up. That wasn't like some kind of weird edit the entire time, nothing but praise. Today's White House pool was even stacked with super conservative Trump friendly media itching to draw out some kind of confrontation between the two men. But it was almost like Trump delighted in shooting the questions down one after the other. And I know what you might be thinking. What did Zoran Mamnani do or say to get that kind of reaction? What did he have to fold on or give away in order to get that kind of praise from the man he spent the campaign publicly attacking? The answer seems to be nothing. Absolutely nothing. At no point in that meeting did Zoran Mamdani back away from any of his previous stances or criticisms of Trump. In fact, very specifically, watch what happens when a reporter asked Mamdani about his previous comments calling Donald Trump a fascist.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Are you affirming that you think President.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

Trump is a fascist?

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I've spoken about. That's okay. You can just say okay.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It's easier.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

It's easier than explaining it. I don't know.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

But.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Yeah, it's okay. You just call me a fascist. Cool. Trump literally told Zoran Mamdani, go ahead and call me a fascist. I really don't mind. Donald Trump just completely gave in to Zoran Mamdani, offering effusive praise and demanding absolutely nothing in return. And in doing so, Trump embarrassed just about every one of his allies who've spent the past few months trying to turn Zoran Mamdani into some kind of Muslim socialist boogeyman.

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

Zoran Mandami is without a doubt the biggest win for socialism in the history of the country. And it is the biggest loss for the American people. He is truly a committed Marxist.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

He's talking about massive tax increases and putting the government in charge of the economy. And he is a jihadist. We lost New York. It will be completely Muslim in three or four years.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

Mamdani was the perfect salesman for socialism. Always smiling, so sweet and funny.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Zoran's not just here to complain about capitalism. He wants to abolish it, as we affectionately call him. Zoran Marxist Kami Mamdani. The commies are making a national play, putting the Mamdani pro terrorist wing of their party first turning over their city to this radical communist, the party of Zoran Mamdani. That's what we're up against. That's how the entire MAGA ecosystem has been talking about Zoran Mamdani for months. But today, Donald Trump just completely wrapped his arms around the guy they've been demonizing for so long and made all of them look ridiculous, including his allies in Congress, his allies in conservative media, even his donors, people like Bill Ackman, who spent millions trying to keep Zoran Mamdani from becoming the mayor of New York. So the whole thing seems completely bizarre until you consider two things about this president. Number one, Donald Trump spent the majority of his life trying to be accepted by New York City's in crowd. No matter how powerful he gets, he still always craves the acceptance of his home city. And more importantly, number two, Donald Trump is scared and weak right now. He knows that Mamdani and other Democrats won big in this year's election in part because of their promise to tackle the affordability crisis and to bring costs down. And he knows that the entire country is frustrated by his own failure to deliver on that same promise. Just take a look at polling from this week. A Reuters Ipsos poll from this week finds voters disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy by a 24 point margin. The Fox News poll out this week finds voters think Trump's policies have hurt the economy more than it helped by a 31 point margin. A Marquette University poll out this week finds voters disapprove of Trump's handling of inflation and the cost of living by a 44 point margin. With a full 72% of voters saying they disapprove of how Trump is handling inflation. Those poll numbers are shockingly bad, but they're not surprising. After all, Trump has spent his presidency pursuing disastrous tariff and immigration policies that have exacerbated, exacerbated the high cost of goods and services. Now Trump is trying to make nice with the Democrats newest political celebrity and maybe hoping some of the Mamdani magic rubs off on him. But let's be honest, that's not likely to happen. The truth is that the mayor elect Mamdani has everything to gain from playing nice with the president, from keeping troops out of New York City to making sure that federal funds are not withheld from the city. But all Trump gets from Mamdani is a quick photo op and a whole lot of mixed messaging that his party will once again have to try to explain away. Joining me now, Molly Jungfast, host of Fast Politics and a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times. Also joining me, the Reverend Al Sharpton, host of Politics Nation here on Ms. Now, and the president of the National Action Network. What happened? What was I watching today? Everybody who follows politics was ready to follow this meeting, but A lot of people thought it was going to go Zelensky, like what happened I think that.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

We saw was, you see in the case of Mandani and you see in the case of Marjorie Taylor Greene that people that have some firm beliefs in something will stick to what they believe. And someone that is transactional, that reads polls, that goes with whatever the way the political winds blows, it blew is blown against him, as the polls say. So he does what he does, he transacts. You know, James McGregor Burns wrote a book about, you have transactional leadership, you have transformative leadership. Two transformative leaders stuck up today. One resigned because of women and other issues that she raised. I don't agree with her politics, but she believes it. And Mandani stood up. He didn't give up anything. Let's remember now, Mandani never conceded anything in his meeting with Trump and the press avail after and Trump gave up everything. And now you have Marjorie Taylor Greene that clearly can split MAGA party or the MAGA loyalists. So I think what we saw today is an unraveling because Donald Trump at the end of the day is a very good political athlete and he understands when he's six rounds down in a 10 round fight and he just decided that I'm not going to go and let them knock me out now, what the MAGA crowd has to say tonight, I don't know. I can only say that for me and people that believe like me, Thanksgiving came early.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

What'd you make of it, Molly?

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

I mean, game recognizes game. He sees a talented political athlete. And in fact, he said stuff like that. And you saw pictures of the younger members of his administration outside looking, trying to catch a glimpse. I mean, you know, part of what works for Zoran is that he has this charisma and he's also wildly popular. He's got a sort of Kennedy, not RFK Jr. But like real Kennedys, the old school Kennedys, kind of that kind of appeal that people really, you know, he's, he's a uniquely talented politician. Politician, which is why he's delivered so well. I also think a few things, I mean, I think the Rev has a really good point. You did see Trump mentioned Bernie Sanders, right? He said, I get the same voters as Bernie Sanders. And remember, he ran on affordability and then immediately enacted tariffs which made everything more expensive. And then, you know, sort of alienated the people who he said, you know, he was going to make things cheaper for. The other thing I thought was noteworthy and worse, talking about for a minute was he completely threw Elise Stefanik under the bus in a way that I is this was today the end of Elise Stefanik's gubernatorial campaign? I don't know. But he did say, you know, you had a MAGA journalist say, well, you know, Stefanik called him a jihadist, which is this wild.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

And he didn't even waffle on the answer, which was weird because Trump's called Maubini all sorts of things, right? He said, no, he's not and he thinks he's gonna do a great job. Like he took, he seemed to take every opportunity. You were talking to the mayor last night. What was he thinking?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

He was walking into, he called me and we talked because he knows I've had my 40 year fights with the mayor, with the president, with the president, I'm sorry. And he clearly comes off and he has, in every conversation, I have somebody, I believe what I believe, Reverend, I'm not going to equivocate, but I'm not there to have a confrontation. I'm concerned about having something done for the city. And he did that. And I really have grown to see a real believer that says, I have certain beliefs, but I'm not trying to proselytize, but I am going to govern. And I think that's what you saw today. I was prepared and I said to him, he may do the Zelensky on you, but I think you're right. Just hold your ground and take the high road. And he did anyone to advise him on that, he stayed right where he was. And I think he won because that's who he is. And authenticity, I think, is what a lot of people, one in this whole political battle, even with somebody like Marjorie Taylor Greene, stand up for something or you fall for anything.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

So this is interesting because in the last hour, as I've been computing all of this that's been going on, first of all, just taking in everything that happened at this White House meeting and then the Marjorie Taylor Greene news. The Reverend draws connections that are pretty obvious. Watching Marjorie Taylor Greene, as Vaughn and I were talking about over the last month, again, you don't have to agree with her, but she's got beliefs, she's got a belief system.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

So Tuesday I went to that press conference in D.C. and I watched her with the survivors. And you know, I've always sort of found her to be a very canny opportunist, as many good politicians are. But what I was struck by was there did seem in my mind to be real connection between the survivors and her. And they were clapping for her. And They, I think, you know, again, I can't get in their heads. But there definitely felt like there was a feeling in which she had done for them in a way that other politicians had not. I mean, remember you had Annie Farmer up there talking about how five different presidents, they had been trying to get justice for five different administrations and that the FBI had just ignored them and ignored them and mistreated them and made deals. So I did wonder, you know, it was meaningful, I think, for the survivors, but I wonder if it was also meaningful for her.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Maybe it's the authenticity thing, but in reading Marjorie Taylor Greene's thing that she posted to X and listening to her video wasn't clear to me that she was saying she's getting ready to run for president. She seemed frustrated, she seemed tired, she seemed angry, she seemed disappointed with Donald Trump. She had a lot of things, criticisms about Democrats in there, too. What do you. Do you think there's a bigger play here or do you think she's just had it with Donald Trump?

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I think that there's an opening for a bigger play. And I don't know if she's consciously decided to do that or not, but I think she's opened up a whole avenue now for people that have, have beliefs like her that are legitimately conservative, legitimately Republican to say that this is where I am. But I'm not with ignoring the fact young girls were abused and they've been protected. I'm not with us saying we want to see the Epstein files released when Biden's president, but now we're playing games when Trump is president. And I think that mass base is going to look for a candidate whether it becomes her or not. I think clearly you've seen a division. I would expect to see some people in Donald Trump's inner White House having to take the exit ramp because he is not going to sacrifice himself for people that have given him bad advice. Affordability and the things that he campaigned on. That also Mandani has worked on has now clearly come. The chickens have come home to roost for him. And I think that he's going to try and pivot because Donald Trump at the end of the day, is a transactional leader in his own right. He's good at it, but it's not based on principle. I think that I'm seeing in Mandani. He's a principal person that would rather lose right than win wrong.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

So we're all New Yorkers. And a lot of the coverage here, every now and then you'll see an article popping up about the degree to which Upper east side moms are losing it over the fact that Madani has been elected. There's something to be said for the fact that he went to Washington with the goal of trying to get the President as close to onside as he can be, which he's also done with the Governor of New York. How does that change the calculus for people who are very worried? I must get three texts today from people who say, how are you enjoying socialist New York?

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

I mean, you and I occupy a similar world. So I too have just an insane. I get insane text messages from some of my friends. But I do think one of the things that Zoran's done really, really well is he's been able to just talk to people. And there was so much scaremongering around him that I think that's been really helpful. And I do think the more he speaks, the more it is, you know, he's keeping Jessica Tisch, which she has done a really good job as the commissioner of the nypd. And I think that. I think people are sort of coming back down to earth. The biggest problem Zoran has is that he has to be mayor now. And that mayor of New York is a terrible job. I mean, let's be honest.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

So it's interesting, the Jessica Tisch idea, perfect example. They don't actually agree on a number of things having to do with policing in New York. What she has done is she's been an effective leader of the New York Police Department, but her views on what policing should be, and his views are different. And yet they've come to some agreement to continue to work together or to work together.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Well, what you must look at, and the signal for me was Mandani said during the campaign he would keep Jessica Tisch. When she agreed to stay, it gave a signal that he was not this wide eyed radical communist that they were projecting him to be. Now you have Trump saying, ah, campaign talk. And he kills Stefanik's campaign tonight. I think the Governor Hochul should be celebrating tonight because he's not what they projected. They overran the Runway trying to make him something he wasn't. And I think we're beginning to see who he really is. And he was not what they projected. And if you just stayed aligned on who you are, sooner or later you'll win. And the affordability issue is real in every.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

He knows that he won an election.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It's real.

[Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent)]

And he.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

This is not something that someone is trying to just use as a spill for votes. People are concerned we're getting Thanksgivings this week. People are going to grocery stores looking at prices. This is real. And you can't tell people when they're paying more for what they used to pay that this is not something real because it's coming out of their pocket. And both of them understood that. And Donald Trump knows how to switch gears to survive and he knows what people are dealing with.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Very insightful. I'm smarter for this conversation. Thanks to both of you for being here. Molly Zhang, Fast Reverend Al Sharpton all right, coming up today, Democrats on the House Oversight Committee claim that there is an intense White House cover up around the Epstein files. Also today, Ghislaine Maxwell said she's done answering questions. That's next. Hey, Riley herbst here with 2311 racing, waiting for the bus, staring at traffic cross hard pass. I rev up Chumba Casino instead. Fast spins, blazing winds, all fun. No downloads needed. Why let the clock drag when you can let the reels spin? Next stop chumbacasino.com let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Void where prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino At Maurices we're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right. The ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Great jeans. Starting at 29.90 in stores [e-mail] TikTok for business is helping owners like you reach new customers every day.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

We saw up to a 10x return on our TikTok shop ads a few years ago. I started sharing my love for fashion on social media and Willow Boutique was born. We're not just a place to shop.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

We've really become a community.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

TikTok allows us to find more people.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

To have that great experience.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I cannot imagine my business without TikTok.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

It's completely changed my life and I.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Could not be happier. Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTok ads. Today we learned that the Republican led House Oversight Committee has shelved plans to interview Ghislaine Maxwell after Epstein's accomplice, a convicted sex trafficker, announced that she planned to plead the fifth to any of their questions. This follows revelations made in a trove of emails released by the committee last week. While Ms. Now has not confirmed the allegations that are made in these emails, one of them includes a 2011 email from Jeffrey Epstein to Maxwell in which Epstein claims that Trump was at Epstein's home with one of his victims for hours. To which Maxwell responds, I've been thinking a lot about that. There are also a 2019 email from Epstein to journalist Michael Wolf in which Epstein claims that Trump knew about the girls and that he asked Maxwell to stop. Yet in an unusual interview this summer with deputy Attorney General and former personal Trump attorney Todd Blanche, Maxwell seems to be telling a very different story.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I don't know Epstein's if he had whatever the nature of the President's friendship.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

If you will, or however you want to define that with Epstein, I was never witnessed. I think they were friendly like people are in social settings. I don't think they were close friends.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Or I certainly never witnessed as the.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

President in any of.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I don't recall ever seeing him in his house, for instance. Obviously there's a lot that committee members would like to ask about that, including the interview that she had with Blanche, who claims that he didn't have Epstein's emails before sitting down with her. But what we do know is that since her sit down with Todd Blanche, Ghislaine Maxwell has been moved to a minimum security prison where she has apparently received preferential treatment like time with puppies, extra recreational time and the warden's help with her commutation applic as well as what the Atlantic describes as virtual real time communication. Again, all of these perks followed Maxwell's sit down with the Deputy Attorney General and now it appears that she's more than happy to stop answering questions. Joining me now, my friend Ms. Now senior legal reporter Lisa Rubin. Lisa, there's a lot here, but let's talk about this idea that she willingly talked to Todd Blanche.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Correct.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Seemed to tell him all the things that he wanted to hear and now now doesn't want to talk.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Yeah, it's kind of bizarre, right? There was no invocation of the fifth Amendment when Todd Blanche wanted to have a conversation with her. And by the way, some of the things that Ghislaine Maxwell said to Todd Blanche could absolutely have been fact checked in real time. So Todd Blanche has taken to X this week and he has said many of the emails that we have since seen produced to the committee were not available to him. But you know what was available to him? The testimony of the butler in Epstein's house, Juana Lessi, who said he saw Donald Trump multiple times at Epstein's house that have dinner with the group, meaning all of the, we'll call them employees, even though that's really not what they were. He ate dinner in the kitchen, but he was a frequent guest and visitor to Epstein's Palm beach home. So let's leave aside for the second that Ghislaine Maxwell could have been fact checked. The flip flop between I will talk for two days to Todd Blanche, but I will not answer any questions whatsoever from a congressional committee is bizarre.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

So this is interesting because the Constitution in the Fifth Amendment allows you to not provide testimony that can be used against you. It's your choice. Tell me what the difference is. Because given that you went and talked voluntarily with Todd Blanche, which is an unorthodox thing anyway, because there was no reason the Deputy Attorney General of the United States, who also happened to once be Trump's lawyer, should be conducting the interview. There were other people in the Department of Justice, if such an interview needed to happen, or people at the FBI who knew the files. But what does that do legally? Once you've agreed to talk on this topic here, can you then clam up and say, I'm not talking about a here.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

That's an interesting question. Because one is a court proceeding. Well, actually, neither one is a court proceeding. Right. I mean, oftentimes a person who waives their Fifth Amendment right in one context is found to have waived it in another. So, for example, if you were to testify at a criminal trial, you can't then go to a civil matter afterwards and say, oh, I take the Fifth now.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Right.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

That, that can't be the case. But, I mean, I think we both know what the difference is, at least in terms of the transactional difference for Glenn Maxwell. One questioner here has the ear of the president and works for the agency that provides pardons and commutations, and the other does not.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Right.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

She had an interview with Todd Blanche because Todd Blanche had something to offer her which was either the promise of a commutation or at the very least, the promise of better treatment within the Bureau of PR, which by all accounts, according to a BoP whistleblower, she has received in kind, amply.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

So let's talk a little bit about. I don't know what. Does Todd Blanch have culpability here? If, if, if, if he knew, I mean, he hasn't done anything wrong, he went and interviewed this woman. It's unorthodox, but what's the issue here? Because the, the emails, which don't suggest some of them do. But, but there's no evidence of Donald Trump's responsibility or culpability. But they certainly suggest a closer relationship, one more in keeping with what Epstein described as his relationship with Trump than what Ghis has described or Donald Trump has described.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Yeah.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

And I think, you know, the worst that it suggests is that Donald Trump failed to adhere to the New Yorker maxim of if you see something, say something. Right. If he says now that he, he ended his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein because he was a sick pervert, if he knew he was a sick pervert in 2007, why didn't we ever hear that from Donald Trump, particularly at a point in time where his administration was prosecuting Jeffrey Epstein. That's all a little bit fuzzy for me. But does Todd Blanche have culpability here? Certainly not of the criminal variety. At the very worst, for Todd Blanche, it appears that maybe he was negligent in preparing for that interview with Glenn Maxwell, but an interview that was never necessary to conduct in the first place, but for the fact that it was politically expedient for the Trump administration to have it. And obviously it was transactionally beneficial to Glenn Maxwell to engage in the interview.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Yeah. Listening to that interview again, now that we've seen it's cognitive dissonance.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Can I say one thing, though, about the emails? One thing that Todd Blanche has said that I can't fact check is he says that there are emails that were produced by the estate to the congressional committee that the Department of Justice did not have in its possession. It's unquestionable that the Department of Justice has an enormous amount of material at its disposal, but no one is able to fact check how vast the chasm is between what DOJ has.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Right. And what's actually out there.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

Correct.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

And what the estate has. The estate doesn't know necess necessarily what DOJ has in its totality. And nor does DOJ know what the estate has in its totality. So you're dealing with universes of people and throw Congress in the mix too. Everything is sort of a known unknown. And I think that's the terror that keeps Donald Trump up at night. That's also the reason Donald Trump sent Todd Blanche to go see Glenn Maxwell.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Lisa, thank you. As always, you make it clearer for us. Lisa Rubin, Ms. Now legal correspondent. All right, coming up, there might have been one full blown socialist inside the Oval Office today and his name wasn't Zoran Bomdani. I'll explain when we come back. Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases. It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba no purchase necessary. VGW Group void We're prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino at Maurice's We' all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right. The ones that go from work days to weekends and everywhere in between. The ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. With 25 sizes, five lengths and six denim brands, you've got options and fit experts in every store. To make jean shopping easier, find great jeans starting at 2999 in stores [e-mail] own a small biz and need a reliable way to reach new customers? Try TikTok for business. We've generated over 100,000 leads, which has converted into over 40,000 sales for our pet insurance policies. I am the CEO of Spot Pet Insurance. TikTok's smart plus AI powered automation takes the guesswork out of targeting, bidding and optimizing creative. If I can advertise on TikTok, you can too. Drive more leads and scale your business. Today with TikTok for Business, head over to getstarted.TikTok.com TikTok ads. Not words that typically come out of my mouth, but today would have been a great day to have been watching Fox News. A lot of interesting stuff going on. The channel prepped its audience for Donald Trump's meeting with the New York Mayor elect Zoran Mamdani by saying it was gonna be a showdown with socialism, a meeting in which capitalism and socialism would collide. Then, after the meeting, a group of handpicked conservative journalists at the White House asked Mamdani questions about communism and socialism, all while ignoring the guy in the Oval Office who's doing the actual socialism, Donald Trump. And I know how that sounds, but think about this for a second. While the right wing press is up in arms about Mamdani's idea to have city run grocery stores sell groceries at cost to New York's poorest. Which by the way is something our government already does at military grocery stores. Trump is actually forcing private American companies to bend to the government's control.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Control.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

This summer, Donald Trump announced that the US government was taking a 10% stake in the private tech company intel in exchange for billions of dollars of government grants. That's the government starting to nationalize an entire industry. Not a grocery store, an industry. And it's not just Intel. Under Trump, the federal government has acquired a 15% stake in a private rare earth mining company and what Trump calls the golden share of the Japan based company Nippon Steel, which is now the parent company of US China. Steal. That's all pretty socialist. And while the right wing press seems to publish an infinite number of stories about how Mamdani will hurt free market capitalism so much that business people and the wealthy will be forced to flee New York City, Trump is actively undermining a global free market by tariffing countries willy nilly. But there's a key difference between actual socialism and what Trump is doing to the American economy. Let me show you what I mean. Back in July, Donald Trump held what he called an AI Summit in which he announced an action plan for artificial intelligence agents. That plan directed Trump's Commerce Secretary, the billionaire Howard Lutnick, to mobilize federal agencies to provide government financing tools and subsidies for AI infrastructure. Even more significantly, Trump signed an executive order directing Lutnick to provide financial support such as loans, grants and tax incentives to promote the building of AI data centers. Now, now, I'll give you one guess as to what Howard Lutnick's family business is currently in the business of doing. If you guessed AI data centers, you'd be correct. Yesterday, the New York Times broke the story of how the Lutnick family business has completed more than $25 billion in data center deals in the past 12 months. Billion with a B. And while Lutnick himself has divested from his companies, he passed the stake in them to his adult sons, one of whom just said last month that the family company involved in these data center deals is currently having its best year ever. I wonder why. Now, I should say that representatives from Mr. Lutnick's family business say that their deals are the result of relationships they had long before Lutnick became Trump's Commerce Secretary. And the White House said that, quote, the fact of the matter is that the only special interest guiding Secretary Lutnick's decision making is the best interest of the American people. But this isn't a Lutnik problem. The son of Trump's Middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff, has been asking Middle east sovereign wealth funds to invest in their family business. Trump's Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant, shepherded a $20 billion taxpayer bailout of Argentina, but just so happens to help a lot of his rich buddies. And Trump and his family have seen their own net worth skyrocket since he retook office, scoring all sorts of lucrative deals with people who want things from the US Government. Government. Trump and his allies aren't just using the power of the federal government to control the US Economy. They're using that control to personally enrich themselves. That's not capitalist, that's not socialist, that's not communist. That's an oligarchy. The only question now is, how does anyone stop it? And I've got just the person to ask. She joins me next. I have one moment from Donald Trump's meetings with New York City. Maybe Mayor Elect Zoran Mamdani illustrates the kind of conundrum that Mamdani was in today. He was meeting face to face with someone he has accurately described as an authoritarian, but someone he also needs to work with.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Are you affirming that you think President.

[Molly Jungfast (Fast Politics Host)]

Trump is a fascist?

[Ms. Now (Host)]

I've spoken about. That's okay. You could just say okay. Sorry.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

It's easier.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

It's easier than explaining it.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

I don't know.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

There's a lot to unpack there. Joining me now is Ruth Ben Ghiat, history professor at New York University and author of Strongman Mussolini to the Present. Professor, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us. That was a very strange set of interactions at the White House. Number one, we can all get over the surprise that it went the way it did. Were you surprised? First of all, because most people were ready for that to be something more like Donald Trump's meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

It's true. I wasn't totally surprised because Trump, Trump has a respect for winners and in fact, because what Mamdani pulled off is something with his pitch perfect messaging campaign is something that Trump can respect. And Mamdani is young and handsome. He presents well. He's very media savvy, and Trump respects that as well. I would say about the fascist comment that it's not out of the realm of possib possibility that President Trump would consider being called fascist a compliment.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

He didn't seem remotely bothered by it. The question?

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

No, no. And his whole demeanor, he rarely has such a natural smile on his face. So he felt an easy rapport with Mamdani. It's a compliment to Mamdani. It's a recognition of Mamdani's talent, talents, and that he's a force to be reckoned with. And Trump sees him as a winner. And that outweighs any ideological objections he may have because Trump is entirely transactional.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Madani has a lot of work to do in New York. He's promised a lot of things, and if he is at odds with the governor of his state or the President of the United States, it'll make it harder for him. But I'm sure there are some people who are Mamdani supporters who would have preferred that he give Trump the middle finger today. What do you make of, of that sort of method of interacting with Donald Trump if you're a, if you're a mayor or you're a governor and you need to get stuff done?

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

I think it was very pragmatic. It was very smart to have the meeting. He held his own. He did not, you know, demure and not call him a fascist. And I think that it was very smart because he does have to work with him. And also Trump has been threatening to have him arrested if he obstructs ICE roundups and also threatening to take money away from New York City. And if Mamdani is true, as I think he is, to his principles of bettering people's lives in New York and making everyday life easier, having Trump as his sworn enemy is not productive.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

You know, in all this carrying on about talking about socialism and calling Mamdani and everybody communists and socialists, it's a great little distraction technique from this oligarchy that we're building. I mean, it's out in the open, right? It's so clearly transactional. I remember when the South African president was in the White House and he said to Trump, I wish I had an airplane to give you.

[Lisa Rubin (Legal Correspondent)]

Yes. And what we're seeing every day, including with the latest stuff with the head of Saudi Arabia or the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, is this transactional nature, because autocrats, authoritarianism is an assertion of personal power. And so that the party, foreign policy, domestic policy, everything exists to make the head of state richer, help him consolidate power. And so foreign policy is subsumed under this. And so countries end up having standing with a leader like Trump if they can do his duty. Deals and autocrats are perfectly suited for this because somebody like Mohammed bin Salman does not. He has total power, not only politically, but also over the sovereign wealth fund. So he doesn't have to care what the public thinks. And he can do deals. And Trump and MBS have helped each other for years, and so they have a relationship now. And, and this kind of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars of deals that are coming out of this latest thing is a good example of foreign policy that devolves away from ideals and principles into deals for mutual benefit.

[Ms. Now (Host)]

Wow. You're talking about the White House meeting with Mohammed bin Salman. It's like, was that also this week, what a week it's been where Donald Trump said in response to a reporter's question about the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. Things happen. Ruth Ben Giet, good to see you as always. Thank you, Ruth. Ben yet is a professor of history at the New York and the author of the book Strong Men Muscle they Need to the present. Well, sneak in a quick break and we'll be right back. One last thing before we go. My show, Veli, airs weekends at 10am Eastern, and tomorrow's show will feature a meeting of the Veli Band Book Club. We'll take a look at the book Breathless by New York Times bestselling author Jennifer Nevin. It's an exploration of how young people find themselves after experiencing devastating loss loss. Don't miss my conversation with Jennifer Nevin tomorrow at 10am on the Belshuban Book Club. That does it for me for tonight. Hey, Riley herbst here with 2311 racing, waiting for the bus, staring at traffic crawl hard pass. I rev up Jumba Casino instead. Fast spins, blazing winds, all fun, no downloads needed. Why let the clock drag when you can let the reels spin? Next stop, jumbacasino.com let's jumble Jumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Void where prohibited by law. CTNCS 21 + sponsored by Jumba Casino.