Howard Lutnick (2:52)

That's what his M.O. was. Get a massage. Get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was on video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. Blackmailed people. That's how he had money.

MSNBC Host (3:07)

The guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. That's how he had money. I mean, whether he meant to or not, Lutnick raises a whole lot of questions there. Questions like, who did Epstein blackmail? Why can't we see his financial records? Good question. And most importantly, what happened to those videos, which I am certain lots of people in Congress are looking into now. Well, it wasn't just that, though. Trump's Commerce Secretary had a theory for that one, too.

Howard Lutnick (3:31)

I assume way back when they traded those videos in exchange for him getting that 18 month sentence. I have no knowledge, but my assumption is there was a trade for the videos because there were people on those videos.

MSNBC Host (3:47)

Okay, wow. I mean, like, you know, people can hear you, right? This is a podcast that's being recorded and gonna be broadcast. I mean, why the US Commerce Secretary would be speaking on a podcast at length about Jeffrey Epstein during a government shutdown? Who the heck knows? But he somehow managed to contradict the administration's entire story when it comes to the notorious X Predator. Wall Street Journal reporter Josh Jassi tweeted today that a lot of people around the President are shaking their heads about this Howard Letnick interview. I'm sure they are. I mean, it's probably the last thing they want to talk about. I guess, in some ways, lucky for them, they probably won't be pressed too much about it, given that the story at the top of most everyone's minds is the government shutdown. And when it comes to this shutdown, the administration and their allies in Congress seem a little too eager, I mean, even gleeful, to get in front of Cameras and point fingers. Vice President J.D. vance even made an appearance at the White House press briefing today, which I'm going to have a lot of fun with later in the show. Don't worry, it'll be later in the show. But it already looks like Trump and Republicans on the Hill are relishing the shutdown, despite the very real impact it is going to have on people in this country. Things like preventing families from applying for SNAP benefits, suspending food inspections, forcing air controllers and members of the National Guard to work without paying, and many more. I mean, those are all very important government functions. But what this fight boils down to is that Democrats want to extend ACA premium tax credits that help millions of people afford health care. According to the Kaiser Family foundation, if those tax credits expire, their health care premiums will more than double in cost. Adding that kind of financial strain on what is estimated to be about 24 million people isn't just cruel, which it definitely is cruel. It is also politically stupid. I mean, maybe not Howard Lutnick podcasting about Jeffrey Epstein stupid, but still very stupid. And, guys, there are people in the White House, the Trump White House, who know that. I mean, see, in Trump's White House, there seems to be sort of a divide right now, a divide between ideologues who just want to dismantle the ACA and those who are certainly not defenders of health care and people's rights, but understand at a basic level, which is very obvious, that making health care more expensive is very bad politics. As one person aware of the political conversation summed up the view on extending these ACA premium tax credits. Generally speaking, the political people want it and the policy people don't. Another person, a House Republican aide, they're worried about keeping the House, of course, described those policy people inside the White House as conservative brainiac guys who don't give a shit about politics. And those focused on making ACA premiums more expensive apparently aren't the only political brainiacs in the Trump White House. In a move earlier today that was likely illegal, Trump's OMB director Russ Vote put on hold on put on hold the roughly $18 billion Congress had already appropriated funding to two infrastructure projects in New York City, citing unconstitutional DEI principles. Sure, Russ, vote. Funny. That vote shows those two specific projects, projects in the city that the two Democrats in congressional leadership are from. Sure, it's a coincidence. Definitely not good politics, though. I mean, Vote may not fully understand this, but one of those projects is the Hudson Tunnel project, which is a massive undertaking. Building a new railway tunnel to connect New Jersey and New York. I mean, if you stop that project, you aren't just hurting New Yorkers, you're also hurting the hundreds of thousands of people from New Jersey who commute to the city for work every day. Someone might want to tell Russ Vogt, there's a very tight and very important governor's race in New Jersey in a month. But that's kind of the point. These guys either don't understand the politics or they don't care. But do you know who should be a little bit more worried about the political fallout of this shutdown fight right now and what it's all about? Donald Trump. I think it's worth noting, and I thought this was kind of interesting. Who knows that he privately told Democratic leaders on Monday that he was willing to negotiate on the matter and other health care proposals. Now, why might that be? Trump isn't a policy wonk. Unclear. He knows the details. He definitely does not know the details. According to the last couple days, he doesn't care about the human cost of health care becoming unaffordable. We saw that with the passage of his big, ugly bill. We know that if it is anything, it's the politics of it. Raising people's health care costs is always going to be unpopular. Just ask people from 2013 who went down through that shutdown. And if people realize that's exactly what Republicans are doing, maybe the Trump administration won't be as eager to keep this shutdown going. Starting us off tonight is Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. It is great to see you.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (8:29)

It's good to see you.

MSNBC Host (8:30)

What a time. The politics I just outlined are bad for Republicans here. The policy is also bad. Why are they doing this?

Senator Elizabeth Warren (8:39)

So that's the heart of it. I just want to remind everyone that in July just a few months ago, the Republicans, all on their own, passed the first budget bill of this year. And that was among other things, to knock 15 million Americans off their health care and basically to drive up the cost of insurance, the health insurance premiums for pretty much everybody in the country. Oh, and while they were at it, to cut a bunch of NIH money as well. So that's what the Republicans did all on their own. Democrats said to them, now, look, we're going to come to the end of the year, September 30th, you're going to need our votes. We don't think this ought to be part of the spending package. So we just want to be clear. Let's start talking about it now. Let's start Negotiating now on what needs to be in the package because we are not going to be a party to knocking 15 million people off their health care and driving up the cost of health care for all of the rest of the families in this country.

MSNBC Host (9:42)

And.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (9:43)

And the Republicans, you want to know how many negotiations occurred, how many meetings, how many round the table, how many back and forth?

MSNBC Host (9:49)

That's what I want you to tell me.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (9:52)

Zero. Zero. They wanted nothing. And so now they stand up and they say, well, we want clean cr. Doesn't that sound nice? It sounds so scrubbed and healthy. What they want us to do is they want the Democrats to okay a spending bill that says we're going to raise costs on health care for virtually every American. And Democrats have said no, we want you to roll back those cuts. Now, look, we're not asking for anything extra. I think we should at some point, but that's not where we are. We're not asking for additional money. We're just saying roll back the cuts so what people had in June, they can still have in July and August and September and October instead of Dr. Costs for people all across this country. We are clear. We are focused. That's what we want. We want a deal. And we want to know that the President and the Republicans will stand behind that and actually follow through. That's all we're looking for here.

MSNBC Host (11:00)

And you don't even need them to do it on moral grounds. I wish they would. We all wish they would. But politically, it's such an obvious thing. They are making health care. They would be making health care costs go up for Americans in January. Do you think Republicans, who. Who are vulnerable, who face tough races, to me, it seems like they are the ones who are going to push this to a deal.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (11:20)

I hope you are right. But understand, watch what's happening in the White House right now. Their response is what, on health care? To lie about it?

MSNBC Host (11:30)

Right.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (11:31)

They say no, no. The Democrats are trying to cover illegal aliens, as they call them. There's nothing in Medicaid. There is nothing in the Affordable Care Act. There is not a penny right now under law for any und undocumented immigrant to get any help from those bills. And that stays exactly the same. So what else do they do? They shut down help for New York yesterday. President of the United States. The President of the United States said his plan is if the Democrats won't cave in on this, he's going to fire a whole lot more federal workers. The President of the United States said, I'm going to impose a lot more pain on my fellow American citizens. I'm going to impose a lot more pain on people in New York who need to use those tunnels, who need the upgraded water systems and better bridges. I'm going to impose pain on other Americans so I can get my way politically. To me, that is a place to stop and say, then we're ready to fight about this.

MSNBC Host (12:44)

I think that is people watching are probably happy to hear that it's such an important thing to fight about. It's not just the president who's saying the quiet things out loud, as you know. I want to play something we found Mike Johnson did a local Louisiana radio interview this morning. I'm sure he wasn't anticipating people playing this broadly, but here we are. We have to play it. We're going to play it because he kind of again, says the quiet part out loud. Okay.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (13:08)

Some good things that could come out of a shutdown. But there's pros and cons. It does give an opportunity to the power in charge, the president in charge, to make unilateral decisions that don't need a vote of Congress about which programs in the government are essential and which are not.

MSNBC Host (13:23)

I mean, again, first it sounds like he is giving up his power. He's the most powerful person in the House. And he's like, ah, it's fine. You can have the power. There's that. But is that what this is all about?

Senator Elizabeth Warren (13:35)

You know, I think it's partly about that. But look, the Republicans are already bending the knee. Whatever Donald Trump wants, he gets from the Republicans. And the Republicans have the majority in the House and the Senate. So it's not like there's been any pushback on any single thing that Donald Trump has wanted. And that's a real problem for us already. But the other half of this is they're trying to find anything to talk about around the shutdown to blame it on Democrats, Democrats so they don't have to talk about the two thirds of seniors who are in nursing homes, a lot of them with serious health problems, half of them with Alzheimer's, who can just be pushed out on the street under the Republican bill. They don't want to talk about those brand new babies and their mamas who will lose access to health care. They do not want to talk about your neighbor who counts on home health aide and who counts on having a wheelchair in order to try to live independently. Independently and can lose all of that. They don't want to talk about the tens of millions of families who are receiving notices this month saying here's where your health care premiums were already too high. And here's where they're going to be thanks to the Republicans. They're going to be people who are going to have to make decisions about whether to make rent or pay for health insurance. They're going to be people who are just going to let their health insurance go. There are going to be people who are going to die because of these decisions. And that more than anything else, the Republicans don't want to talk about. They'd rather shut down the government than help Americans who are just trying to get their costs under control. I think that is a fight worth fighting and the Democrats are organized to do it.

MSNBC Host (15:30)

Right now we have to take a quick 90 second break. I want to talk to you about that fight and Russ vote when we come back.

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MSNBC Host (17:17)

Okay. We are back with Senator Elizabeth Warren. And during that very quick 90 second break, one of our producers handed me the story that just came out in Politico. And the headline is inside John Thune's strategy for ending the shutdown. So the senator and I are sitting here like, what is in here? Here are some of the things he says. Senate Majority Leader Jonathan laid out a path to end the government. Okay, whatever. He says if there's a critical mass of, if a critical mass of Democrats say they're willing to support a House passed funding bill in return, he insisted he would not negotiate on the substance of an extension while the government is closed. But Preston, whether he was open to discussions with Democrats about health care negotiations might work post shutdown. He said we are. So he's suggesting you have. The only way he'll negotiate, as I read this, is that if you vote, if Democrats vote to open the government without extending health care subsidies.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (18:05)

Yes. So let's just say this one more time. From July until today, we've been asking the Republicans to negotiate over the health care assistance. Right. And their answer has been no. Now that the government is shut down, he says he won't negotiate when the government is shut down. He wouldn't negotiate when the government was open. I'm not hearing a world in which John Thune wants to negotiate. All I'm hearing is a world in which they just want to play politics and they'll do whatever Donald Trump wants them to do.

MSNBC Host (18:36)

And to be clear, you've been through so many of these. I've watched many of these from the sidelines. There's less leverage if the government reopens on a clean cr. What is the leverage Democrats have to extend health care subsidies? He knows that.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (18:52)

Look, understand this. The fight is over the families who are getting their health insurance premium notices. As you and I sit here, there are people today who opened their mail and got their health care notices saying, remember how much you used to pay? You're going to pay a whole lot more next year. And that's what this fight is about. And that's why the fight has to occur right now. We have to get this straightened out. We can't just say to the Republicans, you know, whenever you rich guys feel like maybe helping out, some Americans feel like helping out people in nursing homes and brand new babies and families who are sitting around the kitchen table because they've already proven they're not going to help those folks. They don't care about those folks. Remember what was happening one year ago? Right now, Donald Trump was saying over and over and over he was going to lower costs on day one, lower costs on day one for families. So here we are, 250 days in. Cost of groceries is up, cost of utilities is up, cost of real estate is up, cost of school shoes is up, and backpacks and baby strollers. Big part of it is up because of Donald Trump's tariffs. So families are paying and paying and paying. And Republicans then say, we're going to push up the cost of health care higher than anyone had imagined, knock 15 million people off their coverage, drive up the cost of coverage for everyone else, close rural hospitals, close community health care centers. That's the Republican plan. Because you know what the real heart of it was? They gave away a trillion dollars to the billionaires and that was the part that matters to them. Democrats are here to fight for lower health care costs for people all across this country. That's why we're here.

MSNBC Host (20:51)

So before I let you go, I asked Senator Booker, one of your colleagues, a similar question last night. It's because you were ready to fight. You've made that absolutely clear. This is different in terms of where the caucus was six months ago. I'm not saying you personally, but where the caucus was six months ago, what does that look like? Because a lot of people watching may feel like, okay, yes, health care subsidies fight for that. But as you just outlined, there's a lot of impacts, of course, of the shutdown. How does it end? How does the fight get to an end?

Senator Elizabeth Warren (21:18)

So I think it gets to an end when the Republicans have heard from enough people back home who say, wait a minute, I just got my health insurance premium notice and I can't do this, Buster, you better straighten this out. When enough people say, I'm not going to stand by while you do this to people in nursing homes, I'm not going to stand by while you close my rural hospital. It's pressure, it's pushback. Because as much as we talk about the would be king and his spineless Republicans who help him along in the House and the Senate, remember, they do respond to pressure. Remember how Jimmy Kimmel was off the air and now Jimmy is back again? That's exactly right. Remember last spring when the tariffs were going to be 180bazillion percent and a lot of folks pushed back and all of a sudden still too much in the way of tariffs. But the point is response. They are not immune. And as you rightly pointed out, Jen, it's folks in the House and folks in the Senate who are going to have to come back in November 2026 and face the elect. And when people point out this is what my health insurance bill looks like now, it's not going to be enough to say, oh, well, we're all going to die anyway. People are going to want to know that they have representatives in Congress who are on their side and willing to fight for them. Democrats are making their case. Health care, as I see it. It's the tip right now, but it's all of the costs and it's the notion of pushing back against the would be king. It's getting the Republicans in the House and the Senate to acknowledge we are here not just to work for Donald Trump, we are here to work for the American people.

MSNBC Host (23:18)

It's a perfect way to end our conversation. He may be sitting behind the Resolute desk, but he is not all powerful. Senator Elizabeth Horan, always a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (23:27)

So good to see you.

MSNBC Host (23:28)

Okay. Maryland Governor Wes Moore is standing by. I can literally see him in the studio today. He sent a very clear message to Donald Trump over this shutdown. You're the one causing it. We're the ones dealing with it. Governor Moore joins me here after a very quick break.

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MSNBC Host (25:20)

So we are just on the first official day of the government shutdown. It's impacting, of course, Americans all across this country, in both red states and blue states, people who voted for all sorts of people. But states with high numbers of federal government employees like Maryland, are especially bearing the brunt of it. Maryland Governor Westmore spoke out today about the stakes in the fight and exactly who he holds responsible.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (25:43)

A prerequisite to keeping the government open should not be cutting people off of health care. A prerequisite for keeping the government open should not be forcing people to have their premiums jump. So on behalf of the six and a half million Marylanders, my message to President Trump is stopped. Stop this shutdown. You're the one causing it. We're the ones dealing with it, and Marylanders are the ones feeling it.

MSNBC Host (26:23)

And joining me now is Maryland Governor Westmore. I almost unintentionally cut off the end of your powerful statement there. You have so much to weigh as governor, as somebody who cares deeply about the federal workers who are impacted, the people of your state, also the impact on the people of your state and people across the country if these health care subsidies are not extended. It sounds from what you said today like you support the Democrats strategy. How do you support this? Could be a while. I mean, it could be weeks, it could be months. Do you support them fighting for weeks or months?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (26:54)

I do. And I was very clear. I did not want a government shutdown. I did not want Congress to break the basic bond that it's supposed to have with the American people to say that we should be able to do things like making sure that we can keep the government open. I did not want the United States to send a message to our bond rating agencies, to our foreign peers and our foreign adversaries, and to the American people saying we can't even do our basic jobs. I never wanted for the government to, early this morning, say we are no longer going to be open so that people can get their medication or people cannot go visit national parks. But I also know I did not want keeping the government open to be rationalized by also saying we're going to spike your premiums by 70%. I did not want for us to say, well, to keep government open, it means that we're going to cut a quarter of a million Marylanders off of health care. And, you know, I spend time in my communities every single day. And I was speaking with Marylanders today who are angry, who are fearful, but frankly, not one who's surprised because they've seen what Donald Trump has been doing to us for the past nine months. They've seen that Donald Trump has fired more than 15,000 Marylanders already who are federal workers. They've seen Donald Trump deny any federal disaster relief for the state of Maryland because he said Maryland doesn't support for Maryland isn't warranted or that the FBI building should not go to the state of Maryland because it is a liberal state. So, no, no one, everyone is angry, everyone is pissed off, but nobody's surprised because this is just a continuation of what Donald Trump has been doing to us for the past nine months.

MSNBC Host (28:42)

You have, as I just referenced, you have a different stake. You have a very big stake because the number of federal workers in your state. Are you in touch with congressional leadership? Have you told them I'm with you for a month, but if it goes six weeks, there needs to be a short term? I mean, what are your communications with them like?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (28:59)

No, I've been in very close communication with our federal delegation and we have an extraordinary federal delegation in the state of Maryland. But the people who I've also said that we are going to always stay locked in with is the people of Maryland. And just today, as soon as a federal government shutdown was announced, I also started announcing what is Maryland going to do to support our people. So I announced that we were, for as long as we can, making sure that those supports things like Medicaid and SNAP and WIC that the state was going to help to cover for those. Even though we have a fundamental bond that has been established between the federal government and our states that has been broken. And for as long as we can, we are going to make sure that our people are okay and made whole that I said we are now working with the private sector to ensure that we are not going to do foreclosures and evictions and utility shutoffs to federal workers during this time. And I'm thankful for the partnership that we've established with the private sector that I have said that the innovative things that Maryland has already done, things like our Feds to EDS platform where we're getting federal workers who have been fired by Donald Trump and getting them into places like the classrooms where we have a teacher shortage or in hospitals, that we're going to continue and expand these type of platforms and making sure that our federal government workers that their skills are utilized. So we've been incredibly creative and aggressive to make sure we're taking care of our people. And I will always do that as long as I'm the governor, and especially as long as we have this situation where we are completely under attack by the federal government.

MSNBC Host (30:31)

There have been, I mean, Russell Vogt, who I've been talking about, the OMB director, of course, everybody knows who he is, the author of Project 2025. He's threatened he's going to fire a bunch of federal workers. That's not something that happens during a shutdown. I'm going to keep stating people are put on furlough, then they're back paid when they come back. And you're doing a lot with the private sector to try to even help with that. The AFL CIO and a couple of other labor unions are suing OMB and saying, this is not legal. You cannot do this. Is that something the state of Maryland do you think should be involved in, given your number of federal workers?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (31:02)

Yes. It's not legal. And it's a continuation of the variety of legal, of illegal actions that this administration has taken, particularly when it comes to employment for our people. And, you know, when I look at the amount of executive action actions that this administration has taken, and I'm looking at whether it is Russell Vote, whether it is Stephen Miller, whether it is a collection of the sycophants who are continuing to allow these type of behaviors take place, a lot of these executive actions, they really fall into three categories. It's either it's ineffective, it's performative, or it's illegal. And many of the actions that they are doing right now, specifically when it comes to the employment of our federal workers, it's illegal. But what's really important for people to remember is who are we talking about? Because we're talking about our neighbors, we're talking about our friends. We're talking about people who are doing things like making sure that our food is safe, that are doing research on diseases so we can have diseases we can cure, our family members, that they're doing things like making sure that our critical infrastructure is protected, or that veterans like myself, that veterans are coming back and getting the medication that they need. Like, these are people who are raising their hands to serve this country because this country asked. And they're being fired by people who are never willing to take the same oath themselves. And so that's the thing. I want people to remember that when we're talking about this cratering of the federal government, the shutting down of any type of bond or connectivity between the federal government and our states, that it's not just us who are going to bear the brunt, it's the people who are doing these jobs that are now being used in pawns, as pawns in this really, really devious political game that's going on right now.

MSNBC Host (32:43)

Speaking of people used as pawns, we got to take a quick break. But when we come back, I want to talk to you about the events of the last couple of days as a veteran and what is happening with the US Military. Got to take a break. We'll be right back. We are back with Maryland Governor Wes Moore on a very busy news night. There's so much I wanted to ask you about. And you gave that amazing speech this morning in Maryland. The government shut down. But yesterday also, Trump and Hegseth gave what I thought was a bizarre, politicized event. They did a politicized event in front of four, three, two, one, star members of the U.S. military. You were a veteran yourself, one of them. And there are a couple of things that struck me. They talked about fighting a war from within. They talked about these silly rules of engagement when you're in the military. And you know this better than I do. But I've worked with a member of they serve the commander in chief, they report to him. They do what he orders. And I just wonder if we're in just a different moment where there should be some questioning or how do you think about it?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (33:55)

Yeah, I mean, yesterday was really disheartening. I received a text from a, a person who I served with before, and he said to me, he said, you know, it's normal to disagree with the commander in chief. He said, but I don't know if it's normal to be embarrassed by him. And he said, and I'm embarrassed. You know, it's and when we take the oath, we do, we take the oath that we are going to follow the Constitution of the United States of America and we will follow the lawful orders of the commander in chief. It's the same thing and it's the same very humble responsibility that I take as the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard that I know the Maryland National Guard and the Maryland Air Guard, they move on the command of the commander in chief, that I'm giving them lawful orders. But I also think there's a confidence amongst the members of the Maryland National Guard and Maryland Air Guard is that I would only ever give lawful orders. And that's the struggle that I think for a lot of members of the military, they're figuring right now we will follow the commands of our commander in chief. That's the open hook when they're lawful. And I think there's a lot of people who right now, when they heard the words from the commander in chief yesterday about talking about using American cities as training grounds, they're not receiving lawful orders. In fact, they're receiving orders that are in direct violation of, of the U.S. constitution and of U.S. law. And so this is what is making this moment so tricky. It's not just the fact that, you know, hearing Pete Hegseth, you know, ridicule people about merit is really rich when he is the most unqualified Secretary of defense that this country has ever seen. But it's past that. It's that we are hearing from our commander in chief about instructions that he is giving to the members of our military that are not just nonsensical, they're unlawful. And that puts the members of our military in a really complicated situation.

MSNBC Host (35:53)

What can they do?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (35:55)

They don't have to follow them. We have to follow lawful orders. We follow the instructions of our commander in chief. We follow the Constitution of the United States of America. But I cannot stress enough that word lawful matters. And in fact, we are told you do not have to follow unlawful. And so I think this becomes a really challenging moment for the members of our military when you. You usually have the ability to trust that the orders that you are getting are lawful. I think if we have seen anything from the precedent of this Trump administration, that is not always a guarantee nor a prerequisite for the decisions and the orders that they're given.

MSNBC Host (36:37)

One of the things I enjoy talking to governors about, cognitive governors, is that you just call things out because you've been in a position as other governors, had to kind of oversee things and make decision. I wanted to play something for you that Governor J.D. pritzker said today. He talked a little bit about sending troops into cities, something that he's grappling with, as you have with the city of Chicago. Let's play that when we talk about it.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (37:00)

Troops into cities thinking that that's some sort of proving ground for war or that indeed there's some sort of internal war going on in the United States is just, frankly, inane. And I'm concerned for his health. There is something genuinely wrong with this man, and the 25th Amendment ought to be invoked.

MSNBC Host (37:24)

You agree with him?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (37:26)

I love jv. And listen, one thing that I do know is there's this chicken hawk behavior. There is this fascination and obsession with the United States military. And maybe it's because he's never served himself, maybe because he's never worn the uniform.

MSNBC Host (37:42)

Trump. Yeah, Trump.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (37:43)

Sorry.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (37:44)

Not JB But Trump, maybe because he's never worn the uniform, but there is this fascination that he has about that the answer to everything is deploy the United States military. Like he's a child.

MSNBC Host (37:55)

Like playing Battleship.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (37:56)

Correct. Like this is a childish game. Without realizing that the people that he's talking about, these are real people. These are citizen soldiers. These are people who have raised their hand to put on the uniform. These are people who are willing to leave their families and give their life if necessary. People who took the same oath that I took. People who. And as someone who has worn the uniform, who has said goodbye to my family and who has said goodbye to my family without the assurance that I would ever be able to reunite with them again. But I love this country enough and that I was willing to do it. Those are the men and women that we are talking about. And so when the President of the United States is so willy nilly willing to talk about, I'll deploy them here and deploy them there as if this is a Wall street trade, it is deeply disrespectful to the members of our military, deeply disrespectful to their families, and frankly, very much beneath the office that he holds.

MSNBC Host (38:53)

Before I let you go, you're not ready to invoke the 25th Amendment. That's okay. But do you think, just back to the shutdown very quickly. Do you think Trump knows how to end this shutdown?

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (39:04)

No, because I think this is not some type of deviation. It's a continuation. Donald Trump has been shutting down the federal government in Maryland since he's been in office. Donald Trump has now fired over 15,000 federal workers in the state of Maryland. Donald Trump has denied grants and research dollars to our research institutions. Donald Trump has started tariff, you know, started put tariffs and started trade wars that has now risen the price on everything. Energy prices in the state of Maryland have jumped by 20% since Donald Trump has been the President of the United States. It's not that I don't think he knows how to end the federal government shutdown. I don't think he has an interest in ending the federal government shutdown.

MSNBC Host (39:47)

And that is a core issue. Governor Westmore, thank you so much for being here with me. We covered a lot of issues. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. Coming up, Caroline had a special guest at today's White House press briefing. You can see him there. Both of them told somebody. So I'm going to step in and set the record straight the best I can when we come back. Today wasn't just White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt at the White House briefing, none other than J.D. vance joined her. And frankly, the two of them lied through their teeth on some really important issues that people care about. So I'm going to take a crack at some of the questions and try to set the record straight. Okay, first question goes to Washington bureau chief for Breitbart News, Matt Boyle. Why not?

Matt Boyle (40:31)

There's two key Democrat lies I would like to get your stick on and see if you can address. The first is that you're seeing a number of top Democrat leaders, from Kamala Harris to Chuck Schumer to Hakeem Jeffries, claim that it is a Republican shutdown caused by Trump.

MSNBC Host (40:46)

Always good to open your totally unbiased question there, Matt, by saying there are, quote, two key Democrat lies. Okay, regardless, I will answer that. Here's the thing. Republicans control both the House and Senate as well as the White House. They may have more power than you might think, Matt, and a lot of other people in the room might not think either. Funding the government does require 60 votes in the Senate. Republicans have 53 votes, and they could not get seven Democrats to join them in supporting a bill that does not extend health care subsidies to tens of millions of Americans. That's the issue, Matt. And you would think that someone who thought he was as smart about politics as Donald Trump would see how unpopular it is to make health care more expensive. But here we are. Okay, Mr. Boyle wasn't done with his question, so let me just let him finish. He said he had two Democrat l.

Matt Boyle (41:32)

They're out there now claiming that they don't want to give health care to illegal aliens. Can you address both of those lies from the Democrat Party?

MSNBC Host (41:41)

Okay, so Senator Warren touched on this, but the completely misleading Republican talking point right now. The party explanation for why they are refusing to compromise with Democrats and fund the government is that Democrats are trying to fund health care for undocumented immigrants. Now, here's how the New York Times put that claim. Quote, they said Republicans have been falsely asserting that Democrats are shutting down the government to fund free health care for unauthorized immigrants. In reality, unauthorized immigrants are largely barred from federally funded health care programs. The Democrats budget proposal does not make them eligible for those programs. The truth is the health care that Democrats are trying to get funded is not for undocumented immigrants at all. It is for tens of millions of Americans, citizens. And we've talked about the subsidy, but I'm just going to repeat some of it or reiterate some of it. I mean, back in 2021, the Biden administration passed a bill that expanded access to health care plans under the aca, provided tax credits to make health care premiums more affordable. And right now, 22 million Americans rely on those subsidies. But they are set to disappear at the end of the year if Congress doesn't act. That would mean monthly health insurance premiums more than doubling in costs for millions of Americans and an estimated 4 million Americans losing their health insurance altogether. That's the holdup. That's why the government shut down. Democrats want to extend the enhanced tax credits for the Affordable Care Acts, and Republicans don't. Has nothing to do with immigrants. Okay, Shamna Krish from the New York Times. Go ahead.

Maryland Governor Wes Moore (43:05)

How did the White House decide that it is appropriate for Jared Kushner to be working on matters that involve Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, three countries that.

MSNBC Host (43:14)

Combined have given him more than $2.5 billion for his investment firm? Now, I don't normally show Caroline Levitt's responses to these briefing questions. Important. So I can answer more questions. But this is a response you should really see. So we're going to play this one. I think it's frankly despicable that you're.

Senator Elizabeth Warren (43:34)

Trying to suggest that it's inappropriate.

MSNBC Host (43:35)

Jared is donating his energy and his time to our government, to the President of the United States to secure world peace. I mean, okay, I don't know how Caroline thinks donating your time works. Specifically, donated time doesn't not come with financial returns like huge ones. I mean, just this Monday, we learned that Jared Kushner's private equity firm has teamed up with Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund for the largest private equity buyout ever, buying the video game company ea Games for $55 billion. That, of course, comes on top of the $2 billion Saudi Arabia has already invested in Kushner's private equity fund and the $1.5 billion Kushner got from the UAE and Qatar late last year. But how dare a reporter suggest that it's inappropriate for Jared to be involved in White House discussions impacting those countries? What an outrageous question. His company is only getting literally billions of dollars from them. Meanwhile, Republicans are so unwilling to shell out for the health care of millions of Americans, and they're shutting the government down. We'll be right back with a big announcement about something we've been working on. Okay. We are now just 10 days away from MSNBC Live 25, and you can scan the QR code you see on your screen or go to msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets. And I am really excited to announce that my conversation on the stage in the afternoon will be with the hilariously witty and politically savvy hosts of the I've had it podcast, Jennifer Welch and Angie Pumps Sullivan. And if you can't make it in person on October 11, and I certainly hope you can, you can also catch my interview with the I've had it ladies on the first episode of the second season of my podcast, the Blueprint dropping on October 15th. Each week I'm gonna talk with leading voices, interesting people who are shaping the future of the Democratic Party. We're gonna debate, we're gonna talk about all of the things you all are thinking about. You can download Season 2 episodes of the Blueprint wherever you get your podcasts. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.

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