← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Noem commits deadly sin of suggesting Trump's accountability and is promptly fired
00:42:39
Now-former DHS Secretary Kristi Noem managed to keep her job despite a constant stream of scandals and outrages, but as soon as she suggested that Donald Trump, as president of the United States, and therefore her boss, knew about the corruption highlighted in Congressional hearings, that was too much for Trump to tolerate.
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- [00:00]
Ron Reagan
The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion and protects us from government imposed religion. But across the country, officials are pushing prayer into public schools and blurring the line between church and state in ways the Constitution doesn't allow. The Freedom from Religion foundation exists to hold the government to the law to keep public institutions neutral on religion. Visit FFRF US newyear or text msnow to 511-511-text msnow to 511-51-511 to join text Fees may apply. Sniffle season happens. And when it does, your skin deserves comfort. That's why Kleenex lotion tissues are made with moisturizing Ingredients and offer 3 in 1 skin loving benefits helping protect, soothe and moisturize your skin. So whether you're at home, on the go or just living life, keep Kleenex lotion close for a little extra care. That makes a big difference. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.
- [00:56]
Jen Psaki
Okay, so as you all know, because I'm sure you've all been paying attention, we all saw the news alerts this morning. I was walking across the street and got the news alerts. Donald Trump finally fired Kristi Noem. Long, long overdue. And as I mentioned to Chris, I cannot think when I saw that news, the first person I wanted to talk to was Governor Tim Walz, because there are a few people who've experienced and lived through the absolute terror this woman has wreaked across the country than the governor of Minnesota. He's gonna join me here in just a live. We also have an incredible group of lawmakers I have been really looking forward to talking with tonight, who have nearly three decades of combined military experience between them to talk about gnomes firing in the context of Donald Trump's wildly unpopular war with Iran, and also what the hell's happening there. And there was a lot that happened today on that front, too, including Trump saying we should just forget about what comes next with this war. And by that I mean he literally told a reporter, forget about next. So we're, I guess, kind of translating that for you, but that's what he was saying. Also tonight, the Justice Department finally posted FBI interviews they had previously admitted related to an unsubstantiated allegation of sexual assault against President Trump himself. And we're gonna get some expert help unpacking what's in those documents, which I also just read this evening as well. That's a little bit later. But I just have to start tonight with Kristi Noem because there is so much to say. And more specifically, I just wanna start tonight by Talking about why Trump reportedly decided to get rid of her. And I hate to say I told you so, but here's how we reported on the scandal at the heart of that reason back in November. Today, ProPublica published quite a scoop about Trump. DHS Secretary Christine. That in any era, any other era, I should say, would be a career ending scandal. Well, it took a few more months, but it looks like that scandal has finally ended Kristine Noem's career kind of. I mean, she's done a lot of other things, but what scandal, you ask? Which one? Well, last year, the Department of Homeland Security spent 220 million taxpayer dollars to make ads like this one. Why do I love these wide open spaces? They remind me of why our forefathers came here. Not just for its beauty, but for the freedom only America provides. I'm Kristi Noemi. I mean, I can't. I worked for two presidents. I cannot even express how wild it is that she did this. Now, on their face, ads like this one were scandalous because their first priority seemed to just be to promote Secretary Noem herself. She basically got to wear cool costumes. She loves a costume. And ride horses in front of national monuments. And boost her name recognition at the expense of the taxpayer, which, again, is as wildly inappropriate and crazy as it sounds. But back in November, ProPublica managed to unearth a far worse scandal surrounding these ads. Now, I should note that Ms. Now has not independently confirmed this reporting, but according to ProPublica, a firm tied to Kristi Noem herself profited from that massive ad contract. That ad I just showed you of Noem at Mount Rushmore riding around on a course. Let's just play it again. There we are. That ad was made by a company called Strategy Group, which it turns out is run by a man who is not only the husband of Kristi Noem's then chief DHS special spokesperson, you know, the one, Trisha McLaughlin, but who also has personal and business ties to Noem herself. And when Trisha McLaughlin was asked how her husband ended up with a big, huge, massive chunk of cash from this ad contract, she said that she had fully recused herself from the situation and that her marriage was one thing and her work was another. Okay, there, Trisha. Maybe it is. Who knows? Now, so fast forward to this week when lawmakers pressed her as Kristi Noem about the issue during a series of hearings on the Hill. And even though there is so much in this scandal that would be worthy of being the reason why Trump would get rid of Noem, the Thing that reportedly angered Trump the most was that Noem told Republican Senator John Kennedy that Trump had given her permission for all of it.
- [05:10]
Governor Tim Walz
You're saying that you're testifying that President
- [05:13]
Jen Psaki
Trump approved this ahead of time.
- [05:16]
Governor Tim Walz
Is that my understanding?
- [05:18]
Jen Psaki
We had conversations about making sure that we were telling people, no, ma', am.
- [05:22]
Governor Tim Walz
No, ma', am, I'm asking you. Sorry to interrupt, but the President approved ahead of time you spending $220 million
- [05:32]
Jen Psaki
running TV ads across the country in
- [05:34]
Governor Tim Walz
which you are featured prominently.
- [05:36]
Jen Psaki
Yes, sir. We went through the legal processes. Did it correct this? Yes, he did.
- [05:43]
Congressman Seth Moulton
Yes.
- [05:43]
Jen Psaki
Okay. Yes, he did. Okay. But today, Trump felt the need to tell Reuters he did not, in fact, approve of those ads ahead of time. And Senator Kennedy, the guy who was just asking those questions, said that that apparent lie from Noem made Trump quote, mad as a murder Hornet. It's very mad. Very mad. Now, out of all of Noem's scandals, that appears to be the one that did her in somehow. And just to remind everyone, we all followed this very closely. It wasn't the hundreds of millions of dollars of ads promoting herself or the potential corruption, it seems. It wasn't the $70 million luxury jet that Nome was trying to buy on the taxpayer dime. It wasn't because of the allegations, which Noem says are just tabloid garbage, that she was having an affair with her special government employee, Corey Lewandowski, who rode it with her on such jet. It wasn't because Lewandowski allegedly fired a Coast Guard pilot simply because they had forgotten to bring Noem's blankie from one plane onto another. It wasn't because Noem had been slow walking FEMA aid all over the country. It wasn't because on her watch, ICE agents had been terrorizing the the country. It wasn't because she demonized Renee Goode after one of Noem's own agents killed her. Or that she demonized Alex Preddy just weeks later when her agent shot and killed him too. No, apparently that all didn't bother Trump. But Noem placing the blame on him. Noem trying to dodge responsibility for a scandal by saying that Trump said it was okay. And perhaps Noem spending all of that money to promote herself, that all was apparently the bridge too far. And so now Noem is out. And as much as that is a fact worth celebrating, her replacement unfortunately seems to share a lot of the same qualities. I mean, do you remember a few years ago when Kristi Noem bragged in her memoir about having shot and killed her 14 month old puppy, still A very chilling, creepy story. Well, Emma Snow has not confirmed this story independently. We learned last week from excerpts of Julia Ainslie's upcoming book that when Trump heard that story, it immediately took Noem off the list for vice president. Okay, that kind of makes sense. But here's the thing. Trump thought that particular biographical detail was an asset for a Homeland Security secretary. That's what he thought. That's part of how she got the job, apparently. Now, while Trump's new nominee to run dhs, Oklahoma Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, did not kill his own puppy. He does have some choice biographical details himself. I mean, you might remember a few years ago when Senator Mullen challenged a witness in a Senate hearing to a physical fight on the Senate floor. Mullen, I would note a former MMA fighter, then defended that conduct by saying this.
- [08:23]
Governor Tim Walz
It's silly, it's stupid, but every now and then you need to get punched in the face.
- [08:28]
Jen Psaki
Do you know? I don't. He's a senator. I mean. Anyway, after that, Mullon explained that he actually looked into the rules on whether or not he would be allowed to physically fight someone on the Senate floor. He pointed to the precedent that you used to be allowed to cane people, which, for the record, is not true. The story really is that the pro slavery congressman who beat Senator Charles Sumner with a cane in 1856 was in fact arrested for that crime. But that is the kind of behavior Mullen seems to want to replicate anyway. And now he's in charge of dhs, and in all the important ways, we have no reason to think he will be any better than Kristi Noem. After ICE agents fatally shot Renee Goode in Minneapolis this year after the Justice Department initially announced that they would not be investigating the officers involved in that shooting. Here's how Mullen responded when asked whether those officers deserved investigating.
- [09:22]
Governor Tim Walz
If they're investigating anything, they need to be investigating the paid protesters and who's paying them to obstruct federal officers from doing their job.
- [09:31]
Jen Psaki
Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Starting us off tonight is none other than Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. Governor Walz, when I saw the news this morning, you were the first person I thought of. Given everything you have been through, everything you have lived through and the people of your state have lived through. So Kristi Noem is obviously on her way out. You've lived through so much on her watch. What was your reaction this morning? What's been your reaction to the news?
- [09:56]
Governor Tim Walz
Well, good to be with you, Jen. Well, good news has been kind of scarce since Kristi Noem and Donald Trump's folks showed up in December and so glad she's gone. But I think you understand it and everybody else does. It's the people who are putting them in place. A rogues gallery of incompetent cruelty. Cabinet secretaries and this one was particularly loathsome. But what I think we need to make clear is the damage that she's done here and continues to do. I remind your viewers that there's still 650 of these folks here. We're trying to recover from this and it's going to take us years and it may be generational trauma on our children. We don't know where our kids are at. We need answers. And so I'm glad she's gone. But it gives us an inflection point. And this is what I would really encourage Congress to do their job. Republicans in Congress and as you're talking about, whether it's Senator Mullen, whoever is put the guardrails on right now, we need to be part of the investigations into Renee and Alex death. We need to know where our children are at. We need them to quit taking Minnesota's money. So I do think it's okay to celebrate at times. And former Secretary Noemi, I go way back and the trouble started long before this when she chose not to address Covid and spread Covid throughout the upper Midwest, killing people across the area and this incompetency then to be picked. I think it's really interesting what you said was she wasn't fired for killing Alex or Renee are being in charge of that. She wasn't fired for taking children. She wasn't fired for dragging American citizens out of their home with no shoes, in underwear when it's 20 below zero. They only make changes when it becomes politically problematic for them because they're not going to change what they want to do. They still want these mass deportations. Stephen Miller is still there whispering in the president's ear and they still believe they don't need warrants. They still believe they don't need to give us accountability for murdered Minnesotans. And so I think this is an inflection point that Kristi Noem was incompetent. She was cruel. She was terrible. But the institution at DHS and what was carried out and what the White House is saying, that's what needs to be addressed.
- [12:03]
Jen Psaki
As you noted. And I think it's so important people to remember and everybody watching followed what happened in your state was still happening in your state so closely. She's no longer going to be in the Cabinet. What should accountability for Kristi Noem, given everything she's done, look like in your view?
- [12:19]
Governor Tim Walz
Well, and there needs to be. And I think that that's one of our founding principles, that no one's above the law and they're accountable. I would just say at this time that former Secretary Noem should probably get used to spending more time in Minnesota, because I have a pretty good feeling in the future she may be doing that. Because we have got to get accountability. We need to know the people who are involved in this and the ones that were caught on tape and the brave Minnesotans. And again, they're out of Minnesota because Minnesotans took to the streets and it turns out they like their constitutional rights. They like to protect their neighbor's human rights. And that's what Minnesotans did. And we need accountability on every single one of those. So from whether it's the murder of Renee and Alex, whether it's why Liam Ramos ended up in Texas, why we don't know where some of our children are, why they tell stories where a gentleman with a fractured skull tripped and fell in detainment, and the hundreds of other aggressions all the way down to gassing of children with chemical munitions out. It's ridiculous. And at this point in time, and I was on the Hill yesterday testifying in one of their diversions, Kristi Noem's down the way, being asked to simply state calling Renee and Alex domestic terrorists is incredibly painful for Minnesotans and their family. And she doesn't even have the decency to do that. And so here's my question is, well, maybe the president could do that for her. Maybe the president could say, you're right, that's why she's gone. We would do this. So I don't know, on a day like this, I'm glad she's gone. But they just keep lining up sycophants. They just. There's one qualification for this job, and that's loyalty to Donald Trump. And your story there of saying that, you know, when she shot cricket, all the rest of us are, of course, horrified by this. Whatever Donald Trump thinking, that would be good for border security, boy, there's a psychology study right there of what they think about this, and that's the way they've approached this. The whole operation in Minnesota has been cruelty.
- [14:17]
Jen Psaki
It tells you so much. I just want to ask you about something you just said, because I think accountability is something so many people are hungry for in this country. When you say she should expect to spend some time, more time In Minnesota. What do you mean by that? Tell people watching what you mean by that.
- [14:33]
Governor Tim Walz
Well, look, our folks are going to be looking into each and every one of these incidents that happened. We're going to want answers. Who gave the orders to do this? Who said that these folks could do that? Why? Within 20 minutes before understanding what happened, she found the need to slow slander Minnesotans, American citizens. Why did they not retract that? And why were Minnesota investigators at the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension not allowed to be on these scenes? Where's the evidence? We need the evidence to do this. And I know both County Attorney Moriarty, I know Attorney General Ellison. People are looking for accountability. That's what the system is. This isn't as Donald Trump is. He came here on retribution. We're not looking for retribution. We're looking for justice. And we're looking to make sure that no one's above the law. So, Kristi Noma, it sure seems to me there's a lot of unanswered questions. I wrote her in early December asking about the detainments. I wrote her in January, and I wrote her again this week, and I have not received an answer. We have children who we don't know where they're at. They're still unaccounted for. And I know that whether it's the war or it's Epstein or everything else, folks are moving on. We're still in the midst of this. She was still, until this morning, in charge of that. And they chose to totally ignore us. They chose not to answer. They don't believe they're accountable. And so I can't say it enough. Don't give them any money, don't confirm a DHS secretary, continue to drag them in in front of you and put the guardrails around. If a dhs, ice, border patrol, whoever it is, federal agent is involved in the killing or violence or violating constitutional rights, the states have to be able to be part of that investigation. And at this point in time, they're stonewalling us. And if you recall, on the third shooting we had here with a gentleman shot in the leg, she went after that. That was a planned attack. And that night, she said she held me accountable as a domestic terrorist for encouraging them. Well, lo and behold, they were lying. And now those folks are supposed to be under investigation. But our folks were driven off that scene with the gas that was being thrown by ice. So there's a lot of unanswered questions. And I think the way this White House operates is we'll get Rid of here. We'll talk about something else. We'll flood the zone and people will forget about it. I think what I'm saying to Kristi Noema is we will never forget, we will never rest until we get justice for the people that were harmed in this. And if we don't, and all the rest of your listeners, this is coming to your state. We were a testing ground and the people of Minnesota pushed back, but they'll just do it in the dark. They'll make it more difficult. So I don't think we've had the fundamental changes that we need to ensure that border security is done right. And again, this, this false, you know, narrative of, well, you don't care about, you know, violent criminals being on the street. Of course we do, but I don't think a five year old boy in a bunny hat was the one you were going after. I don't think Alex Preddy, a VA nurse or Renee Goode, a mom just driving home, we know that this thing was botched. But they didn't fire her after that. They fired her after a disastrous testimony and as you said, promoting herself to be president. So there's a lot more work to be done and I don't think anybody should lose focus on this. There's one person responsible for all this and that's the President.
- [17:59]
Jen Psaki
You are definitely not losing focus. We will keep focus on it as well. It sounds like you're saying, and I don't know, I talked a little bit about Senator Mark Mullen. I'm not sure how familiar you are with his background, but it sounds like you're saying you really want to Democrats in the Senate to hold up this nomination, given how ICE is continuing to terrorize communities, including those in Minnesota. Is that what I should be hearing from you or was that what I was hearing from you?
- [18:23]
Governor Tim Walz
No, it is what you're hearing, Jen. They need to make the changes now. This is their job. Rein in this rogue agency and make them sit in front of you and answer the questions. And my demand for all the senators who are voting, don't vote for anything until they let us be part of the investigation into these murders and these crimes. What we need to know, and I am familiar with Senator Mullen and I would characterize us as friendly. I would have characterized Senator or former Secretary Noem as friendly. But they kind of change when they get in Donald Trump's orbit. People that I worked with in the House, and I'm not gonna pass judgment on Senator Mullen at this time because he and I did get along. We were friendly. We did some charity work. We did the congressional football game to raise money for fallen police officers. So I do have a history there. But if you put him back into the same organization that is meant to terrorize, being taught. You're training these guys in less than 40 days and you're telling them that they don't have to have judicial warrants to enter homes, and you're telling them there's no accountability. And I will remind folks, in the hours after the murder of Renee Good, the vice president of the United States claimed they had absolute immunity, which was basically a blank check, to do whatever. And they did. They did for 10 days. They terrorized the state like we have probably never seen. So I can just tell you that the people of Minnesota demand accountability. And this is a moment in time to demand that, because if you just plug another sycophant into that job, they're going to do the same thing.
- [19:56]
Jen Psaki
Sounds like a lot of his rhetoric is similar. We will. We will certainly see. But it sounds also like you are going to keep at this, which does not surprised me at all. Governor Tim Walz, thank you so much for being here with me tonight.
- [20:09]
Governor Tim Walz
Thanks, Jed.
- [20:11]
Jen Psaki
Okay, we have four Democratic members of Congress standing by. All four of them are veterans. And I'm going to ask them all about Kristi Noem's firing, the guy who's replacing her and Donald Trump's very unpopular war with Iran and what is going on there. We'll be right back.
- [20:31]
Governor Tim Walz
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- [21:32]
Ron Reagan
Sniffle season happens. And when it does, your skin deserves comfort. That's why Kleenex lotion tissues are made with moisturizing Ingredients and offer 3 in 1 skin loving benefits, helping protect, soothe and moisturize your skin. So whether you're at home, on the go, or just living life, keep Kleenex lotion close for a little extra care that makes a big difference. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.
- [22:08]
Jen Psaki
As we continue to learn more about Trump's decision to fire Kristi Noem, it's worth remembering how important her job actually is. Because the Department of Homeland Security was established in the wake of 911 to address threats to American safety during a time of war. And of course, the current president has just launched us into an ill conceived war with Iran. So Trump is throwing that agency into chaos at the worst possible moment. And that is not an endorsement of Kristi Noem's work, but it's throwing it into chaos. And while Kristi Noem certainly deserved to lose her job, the man Trump has tapped to replace her hardly seems, in my view, up to a wartime appointment. In fact, he seems quite confused about whether or not this is actually a war.
- [22:51]
Governor Tim Walz
I kind of hate it when the. When the left is saying that war, war with Iran. We are not at war with Iran. He was very resolved and direct on what we could expect. War is ugly. It smells bad. This isn't a war. We haven't declared war. This is war and we're taking out the threat. We haven't declared war. We haven't declared. Now you said they've called it war. What I was saying. Okay, well, that was misspoke. What I was saying that they've declared war on us, but war is ugly.
- [23:23]
Jen Psaki
It was a misspoke, everybody. There you go. Okay. Joining me now are four members of Congress who have served our country. This is a literal brain trust on this issue. Congressman Pat Ryan was a military intelligence officer in the US army and served two combat tours in Iraq. Congressman Jake Auchincloss is a Marine Corps veteran who commanded infantry in Afghanistan and special operations in Panama. Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander served as an intelligence officer in the U.S. navy Reserve for over a decade. And Congressman Seth Moulton is a Marine Corps veteran who led one of the first infantry platoons to enter Baghdad during the Iraq war. I am so incredibly grateful the four of you are here. I could probably talk to you all for three hours about everything happening. But let me just start. I want to start a conversation with Kristi Noem and her firing. I'm going to start with you, Congressman Ryan, because she has also. Her replacement has been announced, as I just mentioned. And before you knew this, you. On Monday, even before you got this news, of course, you were criticizing Senator Mullen for his remarks about how he said war smells bad is part of one of his quotes. And you wrote on X, hey, Senator Mullen, what the actual F are you talking about? Did I miss the part of your bio where you served in combat or served in uniform at all? Call of duty doesn't count. What is your reaction when you saw that he, in this moment, is going to lead the department or is going to be nominated to lead the Department of Homeland Security?
- [24:47]
Congressman Pat Ryan
If you wondered could it get worse after Kristi Noem, you're about to find out.
- [24:51]
Jen Psaki
You think this is worse? Could be worse.
- [24:53]
Congressman Pat Ryan
I think he's even more incompetent. I think he's even more clueless, even more sycophantic. And, I mean, you saw those clips. I mean, just seems like he doesn't even know where he is half the time.
- [25:03]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Hogan, Claus, you've been, you have all been. You've been very outspoken about demanding changes to ICE and DHS and how they operate. Do you think Nome's firing? Obviously, there's still a funding fight. There's also now gonna be confirmation fight. Is that additional leverage? Does it change anything about how this fight moves forward?
- [25:24]
Congressman Hogan Gidley
It's important accountability. The fish rots from the head and her leadership has been terrible. And I strongly agree with Governor Walz that the Senate should not be confirming anybody to succeed her. Until Democrats get the demands that we are seeking on behalf of a free people, the masks come off, the body cameras go on. They cooperate with Minnesota investigations. They stop these dragnet operations. We're not gonna back down from these crystal clear demands.
- [25:48]
Jen Psaki
So this is an additional point of leverage. I mean, that's what Governor Walz said. You're saying it. Do you see this as an additional point of leverage holding up this nomination? Potentially. I mean, you're all in the House, but this is happening in the Senate. But this is all interesting to hear from you. If you're calling for this, it certainly should be.
- [26:02]
Congressman Seth Moulton
I mean, we should use every bit of leverage that we have because the American people demand. The American people need it. And our Constitution, our basic freedoms and values as Americans, we're the only ones standing up for them right now. So we need to do what we can.
- [26:16]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Goodlander, one of the things Kristi Noem came under fire for, and I didn't even have Enough time to list it all in the start of this show. But was DHS's efforts to build a bunch of new immigrant prison camps around the country? Your state has been at the center of one of those battles, it sounds like. I mean, I just shared some of Senator Mark Wayne Mullen's background. We just heard from one of your colleagues here. I'm not super confident he's going to have a different approach here. But as people are thinking about what questions should be asked, what they should call their members of Congress, what should they know about what has been happening there and what that's been doing to communities.
- [26:52]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
Look, this is a $38 billion campaign to commandeer industrial warehouses and use them for the detention of human beings. The idea is, and this is what the director of ISIS said, to bring an Amazon prime like model to human detention. So you just can't get any less American than this basic idea. And Pat's been dealing with this in his district, too. We built a really broad bipartisan coalition in New Hampshire. And what we're asking for these are common sense reforms. We're asking the federal government to get the blessing of state and local leaders before they go ahead and commandeer industrial warehouses that are going to come at great cost to the taxpayer. And that actually will lead, in the case of this facility in Merrimack, New Hampshire. It would have led directly to cuts to police department, to the fire department, and just higher costs for every taxpayer. And so these are common sense asks that we're really pushing for.
- [27:54]
Jen Psaki
One of the things that I alluded to this, and I touched on this, but I was pretty broad, is that obviously the national security apparatus and the federal government is all interconnected. I mean, the Department of Homeland Security plays an important role with their national security, just as the State Department does, just as the Defense Department does. So let me ask you, Congressman Ryan, I referenced how this is putting the department into. I mean, it was already in a state of chaos, but into perhaps a greater state of chaos here without a leader nominating a leader that does not seem ready or qualified to serve. There are a lot of things that Department of Homeland Security does, obviously cybersecurity, which is important as it relates to the war in Iran, obviously protecting our homeland. What are the things people watching should understand about the role DHS plays in a moment like this when we're on day six of a war?
- [28:40]
Congressman Pat Ryan
Yeah, I mean, it touches all of our lives almost on a daily basis between. I mean, the cybersecurity piece is really underappreciated. And by the way, the Trump administration tried to cut almost all of the funding for cisa, the cybersecurity agency under dhs. And we know, excuse me, Iran in particular, and of course, their allies Russia and China have very sophisticated cyber capabilities. So on that, that element alone, not to mention air safety, not to mention fema, which matters all the time, to add more fuel on what has already been a dumpster fire at the headquarters anyway, is a real problem. And I do want to quickly say, I also think it's important that US Fighting back Congress holding hearings, grilling Secretary Noem yesterday, that matters. And we have to continue to fight at every step of this and not ever see the ground on whether it's warehouses in our district, which, to your credit, you guys at least paused. If not, stop that. We're fighting that in my district. And the message I think everybody should take is dig in harder and fight harder.
- [29:41]
Congressman Hogan Gidley
Can I build on that? Speaking of dumpster fires and hearings about them, I'm on the committee of jurisdiction over the Health and Human Services Department. And, Jen, the president won't admit it. I think he watches your show. I just want to make an appeal. Mr. President, if you are in the mood to fire people, can you please line up RFK Jr because that man is bringing back measles and whooping cough to this country. He is destroying the Food and Drug Administration, and his incompetence and grift are racking up in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Most notably Kali Means, who is hooking up his own company on the side through HSA changes. And when we get the gavels back and we start holding hearings and doing investigations, it is going to be ugly.
- [30:15]
Jen Psaki
Hold your thoughts on this. We're going to come right back. We have to take commercial. It's how this hall works here. We'll be right back. This whole crew is staying with me. We're going to talk more about accountability, what Congress can do, and of course, the war in Iran. We'll be right back.
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Governor Tim Walz
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- [31:34]
Ron Reagan
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- [32:11]
Jen Psaki
Donald Trump still doesn't have any good answers about why we are at war with Iran in the first place or what happens next, which is such a key, important question here. But he is talking anyway.
- [32:21]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
A lot.
- [32:22]
Jen Psaki
He's calling a lot of reporters and what he's saying is incredibly unsettling. I mean, case in point. Interview just published by Time magazine and here's what it said. Quote, asked whether Americans should be worried about retaliatory attacks at home, Trump acknowledges the possibility. I guess, he says, but I think they're worried about that all the time. We think about it all the time. We plan for it. But yeah, you know, we expect some things. Like I said, some people will die when you go to war, some people will die. I just, I mean, first of all, old bone spurs there is just throwing around flippantly about putting men and women at risk around the world, which I think I did not serve in military. You have all served. Thank you for your service. It's crushing. But let me start with you and what you thought about when you heard that comment that he made.
- [33:10]
Congressman Seth Moulton
I mean, this is a guy who has absolutely no idea what it means to put your life on the line for the country. He's never respected troops. He clearly does not respect them today. But you know what? I'll admit a mistake because honestly, I've been blaming Trump for his derelict decisions. But actually it turns out that he's just so weak and easily manipulated that he's just bowing to his peers around the globe because he's abandoned Ukraine because he gives independence.
- [33:37]
Jen Psaki
Who do you bow to in here? Netanyahu or somebody else?
- [33:40]
Congressman Seth Moulton
He sold out Venezuela to his oil buddies. And yeah, he couldn't Say no to Netanyahu. And so it's not even Trump's war, it's Bibi's war. And Americans are paying the price. Already six American soldiers dead. We'll see if civilians are next.
- [33:54]
Jen Psaki
I wanted to play there's so many things that people in the administration are saying right now that I think it's important for people to understand how off and disturbing they are. I wanted to play something that Secretary Hegseth said today. He did a press conference. He talked about it escalating, but he also called. Well, I'll play it because I want to ask you about it.
- [34:16]
Governor Tim Walz
The dumb politically correct wars of the past were the opposite of what we're doing here. They had vague objectives with restrictive, minimalist rules of engagement. No more.
- [34:29]
Jen Psaki
I mean, politically correct wars. That is such triggering phrasing. Also made me think about just. And all of you have spent time in situation rooms, in briefing rooms about the decisions that go into using military force. And I just, I wanted your just thoughts on that.
- [34:48]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
You know, another stunning statement by Pete Hegseth. Look, the president hasn't answered the most basic questions that any commander in chief should be answering on the front end. He has not explained a clear rationale for going to war, which should always be the last resort and only out of absolute necessity. He hasn't explained why we abandoned diplomacy. He has not, and I fear, cannot explain and answer the basic question of what comes next. And that is his solemn duty. And it is an insult to every freedom loving American, every person who served in uniform, and to every person who's in harm's way right now. We pray for the safety and the success of our service members. But with a commander in chief at the helm who can't answer these basic questions, this should alarm every American.
- [35:44]
Congressman Seth Moulton
You may not always agree with the strategy, you may not like the tactics, but if you're asked to put your life on the line for your country, the most basic thing that you deserve is the truth.
- [35:55]
Jen Psaki
This is Congressman Auchincloss, let me go to you because to Congressman Goodlander's point, I mean, Trump also said today to Jonathan Karl, forget about next, as in don't worry about what's next. And I just can't emphasize enough how important what's next and thinking about that is. But can you spell out for us, you've thought about this, you've been on committees, you've actually served. Why is that so important? What is really missing here?
- [36:20]
Congressman Hogan Gidley
What's missing is what in the military you would call commander's intent, which Is commander's intent is when the highest level echelons of command describe what they want the world to look like after this mission. And every subsequent command nested within that then executes a mission to accomplish that commander's intent. And it's actually a great strength of the United States military because it empowers our junior and field grade officer corps. But it requires at the top that the commander in chief knows what the heck he's talking about. And in this case, I can only imagine what our commissioned and non commissioned officers are thinking when they hear this guy stumble through basic questions like Maggie was describing. And I just hope, I really hope this is a reckoning for Congress over the War Powers act, because this is exactly what the founders envisioned. They understood the threat of a standing army that could be abused by a commander in chief. And the Constitution is crystal clear that Congress gets to declare war. And under the War Powers act, we have ceded that authority. It is well past time to reclaim it. We've got to better define what the word hostilities means. We have got to lower from 60 to 20 days the amount of time that the president can commit troops and we've got to do automatic funding cutoffs so that he doesn't have this unrestrained ability. But it is time for Congress to take back the steering wheel.
- [37:31]
Jen Psaki
To your point, and I think everybody's watching, has been paying attention to this, but did not pass the Senate, did not pass the House. That's why you're talking about reclaiming it. There have been several conflicts in recent decades where head has not passed. I would argue that this president without a plan, with completely unfettered power in his mind is even more dangerous than the past. But what leverage explains. Because this is always the question I get. I'm sure you get it all the time. Democrats are not in control of Congress at least currently. What power do you have? What leverage can you use to try to push for greater. For the war powers for it to pass in the future or other leverage you can use should there be a funding fight, what could you do?
- [38:15]
Congressman Hogan Gidley
Well, I mean, first of all, it would help if all the Democrats voted together to support the War Powers act today. Because that, I mean, the number one element of leverage when you're in the minority is you gotta hang together on the big boats.
- [38:28]
Jen Psaki
Yeah.
- [38:29]
Congressman Hogan Gidley
And then number two, they're gonna come presumably for supplemental funding. And there, there needs to be absolutely a hard line that there should be no funding without authorization, without significant hearings and oversight.
- [38:43]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Ryan, let me ask you about something else. People May have. I was reminded of this today. I mean, we all knew about this, that Trump basically has been running his whole public life as somebody who was against forever wars, as trying to pull back the military from the post 911 stance around the world. That's why the argument he's made. He even suggested that Kamala Harris would be somebody who would start wars and not him. I wanted to play something that he said on election night in 2024, just for people, because this was quite a. I don't know, it brought me back.
- [39:17]
Governor Tim Walz
They said, he will start a war.
- [39:18]
Congressman Seth Moulton
I'm not going to start a war.
- [39:19]
Governor Tim Walz
I'm going to stop wars.
- [39:22]
Jen Psaki
He said something similar in his inaugural address. What do you think? I mean, what is going on that has switched his whole approach here?
- [39:32]
Congressman Pat Ryan
Betrayal. Straight up betrayal. I mean, he said it so many times. He said it on election night. He said it two weeks before at the end of October. He said it throughout the campaign. He also said he was gonna lower costs, by the way. Lower costs, stop wars. He has fundamentally betrayed both of those promises. He thinks Americans, he must think they're stupid. They are not. They see him for what he is, and they're paying the price for it. They're paying the price for it. Housing, healthcare, gas, utility costs. And now we have six American families that are mourning their loved ones and the whole country mourning them. And meanwhile, this morning, the Pentagon puts out a video literally using Call of Duty, making as if this is some video game. I actually think Trump is so delusional and so whatever from his five deferments from the draft, that he actually thinks this is a game, and it is not a game. And he needs to go and look all those families in the eye and give them, at a minimum, a real explanation for what the hell happened.
- [40:43]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Moulton, we were talking about this so people understand what's happening, what's happening in Washington. But you all talk to your constituents. You get phone calls into your offices all the time. I know people are concerned about their kids being sent to war, about their grandkids being sent to war, about gas prices going up, about so many things. What are you hearing and what are you telling people about what the impacts could be should this continue?
- [41:05]
Congressman Seth Moulton
What we're hearing is that people are scared. And I wish I could sit here tonight and say, don't be scared. We've got everything under control, but that's not the case. And we had a classified hearing on the Armed Services Committee today with a number of administration officials. And at the end of that hearing, I said to the chairman, the Republican, I said I didn't think I could be more disillusioned, but I am. They truly are lost in the sauce. They have no plan, no idea what they're trying to achieve, no idea how to get there, no idea how to end this once it started. And so the honest truth is that this is going to get worse before it gets better. And Americans, not Donald Trump, not his kids, cuz they've never put on the uniform, not his friends, cuz they're all profiting off this, you know, betting on the poly markets. They're not going to pay the price. The American people are going to pay the price.
- [42:01]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Goodlander, one of the things that struck me too, we don't know what their goals are. So when Secretary Hegseth says we have realistic goals, we don't even know what they are. So that's really hard to decipher. He also talked about destroying their ballistic missiles capacity as one of the goals. Is that realistic? Any of you can answer this really too. I mean even the things they've mentioned specifically, is that realistic? With the capacity we have, we have
- [42:24]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
the most extraordinary and powerful military in the history of the world. We all believe deeply in what our service members can do. But as Jake was saying, look, they've got to have clear objectives and we've got to have measurable objectives. And this, when it comes to the ballistic missile arsenal, look, this has been part of a shifting, dizzying set of potential objectives that seem to change every couple of minutes with this administration. And it's just not right. It's dangerous.
- [42:57]
Jen Psaki
We're gonna have to go. I'm so sad about this because I hope we can do this again. This has been so informative, so helpful. Thank you all so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you for your service and your continued service us to the country. Really appreciate it.
- [43:10]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
Thank you, Jen.
- [43:11]
Jen Psaki
Okay, up next tonight, the Justice Department finally released FBI interviews related to an unsubstantiated sexual assault allegation against Donald Trump. We're going to talk about that, unpack that for you when we come back. More than a month after, after the Department of Justice released what they said was the final batch of Epstein files. Tonight the Justice Department finally released FBI interviews related to an unsubstantiated sexual assault allegation against Donald Trump. Of course, Ms. Now has not substantiated the claims in those documents and Trump has consistently denied wrongdoing in his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. But joining me now is exactly the person to unpack this for us. Lisa Rubin, senior legal reporter for msnow. Lisa, bring us quickly up to speed here. Let me just start by asking you, how does this I mean, the Department of Justice said over a month ago that they were done, that they had released everything. What does this tell us about the document production at the Department of Justice? And you've been following this story so closely. Do you think this means there could be more documents that have not been released? We know there aren't that haven't been released, but like this that we don't yet know about?
- [44:26]
Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander
Absolutely.
- [44:27]
Lisa Rubin
And, Jen, I want to tell you that in addition to those three documents that you were just talking about, these FBI interview memos, we know that there are 12 others that they discovered when they were also reviewing these for production. They also told us tonight that there are five prosecution memos discovered in files from Florida prosecutors that were originally marked as privileged and withheld. They've decided they can share them with us now without compromising that privilege. And so we don't know whether this is an end to the sort of re review and production of files that have been withheld. They also told us that they reproduced some 25,000 images that were originally taken down because they saw some nudity in them and therefore needed to redact them further. We just don't know if this is, in fact, the final production.
- [45:11]
Jen Psaki
The alleged assaults took place around 1983 or 1984, but the FBI interviews with the woman took place in 2019. Tell us about how she recounts the events she describes. I read them, but you read them through a legal lens. Yeah.
- [45:29]
Lisa Rubin
I think one of the things that's sort of hard about these documents is she remembers some things with such specificity, like the feel of a very what she calls a very crispy shirt of Jeffrey Epstein's that she wore in a photograph that he took of her or that he blared Neil diamond music and other things she barely recalls at all. In fact, she doesn't even know how she got from her home and a coastal state in the south to meet Donald Trump in either New York or New Jersey. And what she only characterizes as a tall building. So this is a person who has very specific memories in some respects and not specific memories on the other. And it's hard to assess her credibility just on the face of these documents, Jen. That's why we're going to have to try to substantiate as much of this as we can or at least investigate those clues that she's left us in these documents.
- [46:15]
Jen Psaki
Lisa Rubin Tireless thank you as always. We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Thirty years ago, blinds.com broke the mold and made custom window treatments easy for everyone.
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