← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'Open revolt': Republicans just can't with Trump's ABSURD pick for DNI
00:42:02
While it is not unusual for Donald Trump to appoint completely unqualified people to important jobs in his administration, his choice of Bill Pulte, a Mar-a-Lago suck-up who Trump had already gifted the position of director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, to be the new Director of National Intelligence is too far for many Republicans who are already dealing with the burden of association with Trump's unpopularity. Senator Adam Schiff, a former member of the House Intelligence Committee, discusses with Jen Psaki.
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Announcer/Commercial Voice
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms, but progress isn't guaranteed.
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Host/Jen Psaki
Today.
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Announcer/Commercial Voice
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Senator Adam Schiff
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Host/Jen Psaki
Okay, there's tons going on. I'm going to talk with Senator Schiff about all of that. But I also just want to know, because yesterday was a big election day, and as of today, we are exactly five months out from November's midterm election. And five months out, there are just so many. There are many more promising signs now than I would say there even were a month ago, certainly than two months ago. And they're all for Democrats as they look to retake majorities in both houses of Congress. Now, after last night's packed primary night, Democrats may have reason to hope that their path back to the Senate majority could run through Iowa. I mean, immediately after Democratic candidate Josh Turek won his primary last night, the Cook Political Report shifted its rating of the Iowa Senate race in the Democrats favor, moving it from likely Republican to lean Republican. And that's in a state, by the way, that Trump has won three times, including by more than a dozen points just a year and a half ago. So they that means this race is really in play. And I'm going to be speaking with him later in the show about the path forward now and his plans to face off against Republican Congresswoman Ashley Hinson to fill that seat that Republican Senator Joni Ernst is set to vacate early next year. But last night didn't just provide a glimmer of hope for Democrats in a state Trump has long dominated. It also showed that Trump's death grip on his party may actually be slipping a little bit, at least in Iowa. I mean, that's because the Trump endorsed Republican candidate for governor, Congressman Randy Feenstra who was congressman kind of expected by most to pull out on top here, lost his primary to a MAHA candidate endorsed by Charlie Kirk's former super pac. And there were lots of dynamics in that race. But that loss is is still notable for Trump, given that Republicans just last month touted his endorsement as the most powerful in history. Of course, everything always has to be so extreme with them. But to be fair, Trump hasn't exactly spent much time or energy, really, on. On boosting his party's chances in November. I mean, he literally said, I don't care about the midterms just last week because he clearly has far more important things going on, as we say, like, say, the UFC cage fight he is holding at the White House for his birthday, which he promoted again today. He even floated the idea that maybe he'll just leave that heinous arena on the White House salon. It is such an eyesore, permanently. That's what he floated. And of course, he's still talking about his favorite vanity projects, like the repairs he's been making to the reflecting pool at the Lincoln Memorial for weeks. Remember, he has tried to argue that the length of the reflecting pool is longer than the tallest building in the world, which is not true. So today, he came equipped with a poster board in an attempt to at least claim that it's longer than some other really tall buildings. What point he's trying to make, I don't even know. But there is his handy, dandy little poster board, like he's going to elementary school class. I guess he felt it was a good use of his time there to be throwing that out there. I mean, the way he focuses on his construction projects, you might think that there just, there wasn't anything else going on in the world, nothing else for him to spend his time on, or his own party, for that matter. But while Trump is showing off his new poster, he is facing real, sustained pushback from Republicans in Congress. I mean, today in the House, four Republicans joined Democrats to pass a war powers resolution that would halt military action against Iran. And over in the Senate, Republicans today dealt a blow to one of Trump's other priorities by stripping the billion dollars in security funding, including for his ballroom, out of their ICE and Border Patrol reconciliation bill. And remember, bipartisan pressure also got the Trump administration to announce that it would scrap plans for its $1.8 billion slush fund. The caveat there is that even Republicans don't trust the acting attorney general enough to take him at his word. And notably, Todd Blanche refused yesterday to put anything in writing promising that the administration would permanently abandon that plan. Now, it appears their fears were justified, because earlier this afternoon, and this is so freaking predictable, Trump declined to commit to scrapping the slush fund for good. Here's what he said.
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Announcer/Commercial Voice
Excuse me, Mr. President, just to clarify
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Host/Jen Psaki
on what you were asked earlier, is the $1.8 billion DOJ fund dead, or is it on hold?
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Senator Adam Schiff
It's. I'd have to ask the lawyers. I don't know. I know one thing. The weaponization.
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Josh Turek
Are you talking about the weaponization fund?
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Announcer/Commercial Voice
Yeah. What's your decision?
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Senator Adam Schiff
The weaponization fund, as far as I'm concerned, was a beautiful thing.
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Host/Jen Psaki
That sure sounds like he's leaving the door open to reviving his plan to dole out taxpayer money to his supporters, including people who marched on the Capitol on January 6th. But unfortunately for him, despite his optimism there and his allies, there appears to be Republicans who are willing to make sure that the slush fund never sees the light of day.
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Scott McFarlane
Do you take the deputy attorney general at his word that the fund is dead for now, or do you want to pass a bill to specifically outlaw it in the future? I want to make sure it's not mostly dead. I want to make sure it's completely dead.
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Host/Jen Psaki
Not mostly dead. Completely dead. That's very clear. Now, of course, Trump's war with Iran, his ballroom, and his slush fund aren't the only things that have pushed some congressional Republicans into a form of open revolt, because yesterday, Trump announced that he plans to appoint this guy. I was just talking with Chris about him. Bill Pulte to serve as the acting Director of National Intelligence once Tulsi Gabbard leaves the position at the end of the month. This is. I almost did not think this was real when I saw it. Now, Pulte currently serves as Trump's director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency. The plan is he will somehow do both jobs, which in and of itself is pretty unbelievable, and even more unbelievable once you factor in the fact that Bill Pulte has zero known national security experience. And I don't think he has any secret national security experience, either. I mean, that would be very important in any other administration. But apparently, it's secondary to the quality that Trump holds above all else, which is, of course, loyalty. Now, you've heard his name, we've talked about his name a lot. But he has grabbed headlines over the past year for using his power overseeing mortgage finance records to make criminal referrals, claiming mortgage fraud against some of Trump's publicly stated political enemies, such as New York Attorney General Letitia James, California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff, who I'm about to talk to, and Democratic nominee to the Federal Reserve, Lisa Cook. Now, Pulte, who was heir to a family construction fortune, was able to insert himself into Trump's orbit through his membership at Trump's club, Mar a Lago, of course. Right. He and his wife also donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to pro Trump groups in recent campaign cycles. And if you are wondering what else Bill Pulte was doing before he joined the Trump administration, well, let me show you. Now, the next clip is a video of Bill Pulte accepting an award just two and a half years ago, very recently. And before I play it, I just want to warn you that the first two men you will see are not Bill Pulte. And also that the blurred object in this video is, in fact, a dildo.
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Scott McFarlane
Here's the first ever man. Live dildo. Slap on the pp. Live Pulte. Look at this thing.
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Josh Turek
Come on.
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Scott McFarlane
So, Bill, this says Bill Pulte. All right.
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Host/Jen Psaki
Yeah.
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Scott McFarlane
And then if you notice on, it's got a tramp stamp with a butterfly. I like only the young one cheek set. Yes, it. It does say. It does say only the young on the back here. Only the young. December 4th. That looks pretty bad
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Host/Jen Psaki
case. That was hard to follow. Confusing. In case you're wondering if it was AI, it was certainly not. They made an award that says Bill Pulte. Bleeps but only the young. That's a. That's a real. That's a real video. And just to reiterate, that was not some old footage of Bill Pulte and his college fraternity. That would be bad enough. That was two and a half years ago. Bill Pulte was old enough to be President of the United States in that video. That's the guy who Trump wants leading US Intelligence. Now, if you are shocked and horrified by that, and you certainly should be, you are not alone. Because Trump's Pulte announcement landed with a wet thud among many elected Republicans. Republican Senate Majority Leader responded. He responded by saying that, quote, we don't need a weaponized dni. Fact. True fact. Republican Senator Thom Tillis called Pulte an incendiary attack dog. We love free Thom Tillis and yolo. Thom Tillis world. And even Trump ally and chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Tom Cotton, couldn't bring himself to even comment on the announcement. That tells you a lot, too. Now we're gonna see what Republicans might actually do to push back against Trump's decision to put Pulte in charge of national intelligence. But Democrats are looking to turn this into a fight if Trump doesn't withdraw his woefully unqualified candidate. And that is interesting to watch, too. And joining me now talk about all of this and more is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff. That's good to see you.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Good to see you, too.
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Host/Jen Psaki
There is always so much to talk to you about given your background. But I just gotta start with Bill Pulte. I mean, I just tried to outline. There's so much to say about the man, but I tried to give a summary there for people who were tuning into this news or trying to learn a little bit about him. You have kind of a special insight into him, given the Trump Justice Department investigating you for alleged mortgage fraud and given your also extensive, extensive intelligence oversight experience. I just want to know what went through your head when you saw this and how dangerous do you think it is?
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, what went through my head is this is such an in your face move by the president. Because, of course, the president knows this guy has no qualifications to lead the intelligence agencies but one, and that is that he is willing to weaponize any access to government data to be used against the president's enemies. That's his only qualification. But can you imagine, notwithstanding the fact, as you just demonstrated, he is apparently an award winner of some sort of,
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Host/Jen Psaki
if you call it that.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Can you imagine this guy briefing the President, United States on the Iran war, on terrorist threats facing the United States? Do we want this, this basic trust fund baby of a real estate magnate? Do we want him to be leading our intelligence agencies, someone who has a demonstrated record of abusing even housing data and making false representations about it to suit the president's interests? And that is not what we need. And again, it's just another illustration of when it comes to the country's national security interests compared to Trump's petty personal interests? The petty personal interests are going to win out every time.
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Host/Jen Psaki
We also know he clearly wants somebody in this job who will do his bidding. As it relates to, we saw what happened with Tulsi Gabbard in Fulton County. He can serve in this job as acting. He doesn't need Senate confirmation, which I think people watching know. We've seen. Republican. I mentioned some of it, of what people have said out loud. We've seen it around Matt Gaetz, who was actually nominated. What does that look like and feel like, and what could the impact of that actually be?
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Senator Adam Schiff
I think what it looks like is two illustrations we could see with Gabbard. We're going to see just magnified with Pulte, one of them. This happened quite some time ago when the intelligence community put together a report, an analysis that said the Venezuelan government was not controlling Trende Aragua, which was part of the basis for these deportations to this prison, maximum security prison in El Salvador. They, they did it on the basis that the Venezuelan government was controlling this gang. But the intelligence community said, no, they're not controlling the game, the gang. And that contradicted the president's preferred narrative. So Gabbard's chief of staff, I'm sure, with Gabbard's support and approval, said, you need to rewrite this report. Basically, you need to tell us what we want to hear, not the true intelligence. That is the worst kind of politicization of intelligence. And the danger is, if you can't rely on the intelligence because it's politicized, you get into an Iraq war or you get into an Iran war. So that's one result. The other result, though, is we saw Gabbard politicizing elections in Georgia. The DNI has no role in domestic elections. It has a role in trying to prevent foreign interference. But nothing that we saw in Georgia indicates that was her purpose. We've also seen her pushing out false conspiracy theories about people within the intelligence community and getting people fired. We're taking aim at the president's political opponents. That is exactly what Pulte did at the housing agencies. So we can expect a lot more of that.
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Host/Jen Psaki
It's why there's efforts, right, to stop this. And Democrats, though, they're not in charge, are using this threat of tanking an upcoming vote on FISA reauthorization if Trump doesn't withdraw Polti's appointment. What do you think of that? What is the impact of that and what impact do you think it could have on Pulte staying in this role?
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, FISA702 is a very important tool in terms of our national security, but it has also been abused and it needs important reforms. And we've had this very difficult to debate about what kind of reforms do we need to make to this program. Now, you add to this somebody with a record of politicizing any data he can get his whole hands on, and we're supposed to entrust this program to him. So it makes it that much more difficult to reauthorize this program and that I think, even, you know, without it being a deliberate thing, it just makes it harder for people to get to, yes, unnecessary reforms when you have no trust whatsoever. Not Just in the president, but in his enabler now put at the top of the intelligence community.
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Host/Jen Psaki
I mentioned this. I mean, there's pushback from a lot of areas from Republicans. I'm not naive about it. You certainly are not. We've talked about this before. We've seen some pushback to the slush fund. We've seen pushback certainly more extensively to that than to IRS audits. I mean, some Republicans, like Susan Collins and Thom Tillis have spoken out about the audit agreement, but it's nowhere near as much pushback as there is to the slush fund. What do you make of that? Do you think there are going to be the same type of efforts to try to kill that aspect? Because no audits for the Trump family is just kind of outrageous, or do you think that's going to. That's a line Republicans aren't going to cross.
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Senator Adam Schiff
It is outrageous and Republicans shouldn't allow it. I haven't heard them say really much at all about this tax scheme of the President's, basically. And this may land Blanche the job as Attorney General, but Blanche signed this one page nebulous agreement that we'll never look back at audits. We won't complete these audits. That has been estimated to potentially save Trump and his family $100 million, perhaps. I mean, how many of your viewers would like a basically a IRS get out of jail free card?
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Host/Jen Psaki
I expect 100%.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Yes, I would think they would certainly go for bargaining. And this is just as corrupt as the slush fund in the sense that the president is negotiating with himself and Pult and not Pulte, but Blanch here, the Attorney General, Acting Attorney General. Blanche was his criminal defense lawyer and has never been able to shed that role. He is still Trump's criminal defense lawyer. He is still looking out for his personal client. That is, how do I make sure that Donald Trump doesn't face any criminal or civil liability for his tax returns? That is priority number one, priority number two, or three, or somewhere down the line, the American people. That is just not where Blanche is coming from. He just wants the job too badly.
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Host/Jen Psaki
He is so thirsty for the job, which is very apparent. Is there any way, I mean, he could also stay in the job as acting for certainly an extensive period of time if he's nominated or even if he's not. Is there anything, if there's Republican support for. Is there any way to stop him?
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Senator Adam Schiff
There is a way to stop him. There's also a way to stop this IRS scheme. I'm preparing an amendment for the reconciliation votes we're starting tomorrow. An amendment. I think others may as well to try to kill that. Not just the slush fund, but the private tax scheme, the get out of jail free card. So we could put that into the bill as well. I would think that even if we don't do that, if we can't do that because Republicans won't go that far, that this is so suspect that I'm hoping that the judge that reasserted jurisdiction over the case will look into this tax deal and whether it violates the law, whether it is also just corrupt self dealing. And even if this judge doesn't, I would hope that a future Justice Department and IRS will do the audits that this government is not permitting because they should be done. And if he has violated the law, then hold him accountable. If he hasn't, then don't hold him accountable. But he shouldn't get any different treatment than any other American citizen.
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Host/Jen Psaki
No, certainly not. You are so generous with your time. You're sticking around. There was some big elections in your home state last night. We're going to talk about that. Also big War Powers act votes. So even as we speak, new tallies, I should note, are coming in from California. And the fight for the top two spots in the race for governor is tightening there. I'm going to get your thoughts on that. Of course. As we mentioned, we're going to take a quick break.
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- [19:32]
Host/Jen Psaki
Why have I asked my H Vac guy I found on Angie.com to change
- [19:35]
Announcer/Commercial Voice
my grandpa's trachea tube?
- [19:36]
Host/Jen Psaki
I was so amazed at how we
- [19:38]
Announcer/Commercial Voice
replaced our air ducts. I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube?
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Scott McFarlane
I think we should call a doctor, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com
- [19:47]
Announcer/Commercial Voice
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Host/Jen Psaki
As promised. Back with me is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff. Okay, there's again, I sort of went through a rundown of this in the beginning of the show. But today the House passed a war powers resolution blocking Trump from further strikes on Iran. It was the fourth attempt I should tell people to do so. And the first one to pass. Four Republicans joined Democrats in voting yes. The Senate also has voted to advance a similar resolution. These are all things you know. But as people are tuning into all of this, with more Republicans defecting to join more Democrats, each time it comes up for a vote, it seems you guys peel off more and more Republicans. Do you see this? I mean, are we at an inflection point now? And explain to us because it has to go back to the Senate, sort of what happens next and where it goes from here.
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Senator Adam Schiff
So each time we've offered these war powers resolutions in the Senate and we've offered them basically every week we're in session, we picked up one Republican the first time, and two the second or third time, and three, then four. And this was really exactly what we thought would happen. That is, the longer this dragged on, when it exceeded the limit under the War Powers act and blew through that, when the President said, we have a ceasefire, it doesn't apply. And then we're still bombing and they're still bombing our allies. As long as this continues, we're going to gain more Republican support. And these resolutions are pretty simple. They basically say that this war has to come to an end unless you come to Congress and you seek Congressional authorization. They don't want to do that because they don't know if they have the votes in the Congress. Members of the Senate don't particularly want to vote on a straight war authorization. But these are just going to continue to gain momentum. Now, the President can veto these. So we have to get the same language through both Houses and then he can veto it. And then the question is, do you have enough to override the veto? But the White House does pay a lot of attention to this. The first time we passed one of these regarding the boat strikes, the President and his allies were on the phone basically trying to peel off Republicans who had voted with us to bring an end to those Boat strikes. They had some success with that. We'll see if they can ward off this latest passage of the War Powers Resolution.
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Host/Jen Psaki
It's also significant. I'm just going to. It's also significant. It's very. It's very hard to get War Powers Acts through Congress. So this signifies concern definitely at a very high level, what you see in the country. Let me ask you about California. There are. There's still votes coming in. We just gave a little update. We'll give any more updates if more updates come. There were a lot of results or a lot. A lot we learned last night. I should say we know who's kind of leading currently or the two who were likely end up competing on the gubernatorial. In the gubernatorial race where the LA mayor's race is shaping up, the people running in House seats is shaping up. There's five seats Democrats hope to win out of California or additional seats, I should say. What surprised you? What's your takeaway from what we know so far?
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, as is the case often in California elections, we're going to have to wait a while to see the final results. And there's nothing nefarious about that. The president and I've even heard Speaker Johnson so mislead the country and say there's something inherently suspicious if the results after election Day, as more ballots come in, are different than on Election Day. There's nothing suspicious about that. It's just that different types of people vote at different times. A lot of Democrats held onto their ballots to the last minute in this election in particular, because in the governor's race, the top of the ticket, it kept changing. And we have this jungle primary where the top two vote getters go on to the general regardless of party. And at times it looked like the top two were Republicans and Democrats would be shut out. And so Democrats strategically held onto their ballots to see which Democrat has the best chance of making the runoff. So we're not shut out. And then I'm going to cast a late vote for them. So I think a lot of late breaking votes are breaking for Javier Becerra. And so there's a lot of strategic thinking. Uh, it's really actually a terrible system, this jungle primary. But that's a conversation for another day. But I think the returns will take longer than usual. But right now it looks like Democrats will not be shut out of the runoff. There'll be a Democrat and a Republican. There is still some chance, though, that we could end up with two Democrats in the runoff. I don't think there's much chance we have two Republicans in the runoff. There are other key races like the mayor of Los Angeles also still very close in terms of who will be number two and make the runoff.
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Host/Jen Psaki
I gotta ask you your thoughts on Spencer Pratt while you're here, who looks like he could make the runoff? We'll see. It hasn't been called yet. What do people not know about that guy?
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, you would think having tried having a reality TV star in elective office and seeing it was a colossal bust, it was a terrible decision that maybe we wouldn't be eager to repeat that decision. I think that, you know, his campaign is really fueled by a lot of discontent about the quality of life in Los Angeles. And there's a lot to be said there in terms of what we need to do to address the homelessness problem and crime. I think the mayor is doing a good job trying to address those in a very difficult city, in a mayorship that doesn't have that much power. So I think, you know, Karen Bass is ahead for a reason. People see her as really a very smart, competent, capable person, but dealing with some really intractable problems. But Pratt is taking advantage of those problems and he is likely to come in number two. Still. We are a very Democratic city and a MAGA aligned Trump fawning candidate for mayor is probably not going to be successful in L. A.
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Host/Jen Psaki
Don't forget he's the lover of crystals. Senator Adam Schiff, so great to see you. Thank you for covering such a broad range of topics as always. Okay, coming up after 16 minutes, correspondent Scott Pelley was fired by CBS News. It became very obvious very quickly that this story is so much bigger than one reporter losing his job, even one as well respected as Scott pelley. And Scott McFarlane is a former CBS News correspondent who worked alongside Scott Pelley and he joins me next.
- [26:41]
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- [27:34]
Senator Adam Schiff
No, sorry.
- [27:35]
Scott McFarlane
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- [28:20]
Host/Jen Psaki
Just last night, news broke that the new management at CBS News fired veteran journalist Scott Pelley from his role as a correspondent at 60 Minutes after Peli ask some questions that needed to be asked during a contentious staff meeting with the new executive producer who seems very sensitive. And this all is just a reminder of what a relentless questioner Scott Pelley has long been, no matter who he's talking to.
- [28:46]
Senator Adam Schiff
You're not very popular in the country right now, to be frank.
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Scott McFarlane
I wonder.
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Host/Jen Psaki
I'm afraid you're right.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Does that get to you?
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Josh Turek
Not really.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Do you have any hesitation as commander in chief ordering women into combat? You know I don't. And the reason is become because women as a practical matter are now in combat. But there is a North American Free Trade Agreement and there shouldn't be. It's a disaster, but it is there. If you're president, you're going to have to live with it. We will either renegotiate it or we will break it.
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Josh Turek
Because you know every agreement has an end.
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Senator Adam Schiff
You can't just break the law. Have you been briefed, sir, on the top secret documents that were found at Mar a Lago?
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Scott McFarlane
No.
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Senator Adam Schiff
No one has come to you to warn you that important national security secrets were revealed by the storage of those documents at the former president's home? I have not personally spoken to anyone on that in that regard.
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Host/Jen Psaki
So that person who you just saw questioned four different presidents from both parties. And there's much more where that came from. Apparently that guy is not the kind of person who fits the current vision of 60 Minutes. Just think about how crazy that is Pelly is now the fourth correspondent to leave the show in just the last few tumultuous weeks as CBS News editor in chief Bari Weiss has tried to put her conservative contrarian stamp on the network since being placed at the helm by its new owners. And based on a statement Scott Pelley released after walking out the door, there appears to be exactly one goal in mind. And 60 Minutes is just the latest casualty. Pelly wrote that, quote, the new owner of our network is casting this legend aside apparently to curry a moment of favor with the Trump administration. And joining Me now, Scott McFarland, chief Washington correspondent, host of Scott McFarland Reports on the Midas Touch Network and a former CBS News justice correspondent. I don't, I certainly didn't do justice to Scott Halley, who I have seen question. I probably was sitting in some of those interviews, like gritting my teeth and waiting to see what happened. But you, you also, were you worried about your time overlapping with him at CBS News? What does it mean for such a storied network to have someone like Scott Pelly leaving on on these terms?
- [30:55]
Scott McFarlane
We were both at CBS News, Jen, for about five years together. And I could tell you he was the North Star for all of us. Not some of us, not part of the operation, for all of us, like, like a live member of a Mount Rushmore at CBS News. So can't help but think he wasn't trying to speak broadly for a larger subset of people when he was challenging the new executive producer and challenging management, that he was probably speaking for more than just himself. But I can also tell you without equivocation that his loss is a loss that transcends just Scott Pelley. It's going to impact people far and wide inside the network. And respectfully, nobody wins, Nobody benefits if 60 Minutes gets damaged. Not the news industry, not politicians, not our better angels as we seek truth in America because it was the one place, jet, the one place that could cut through the noise and cut through the clutter where people from both parties wanted to be on, as you saw, from both parties, president speaking to Scott Pelley to get a message out and be challenged.
- [32:03]
Host/Jen Psaki
I've said, I mean, to some of our producers, if 60 Minutes correspondents who left were doing a big interview about what happened that was lengthy and thoughtful, they would do the interview with 60 Minutes. And that is just where we are right? And how much respect there is for that news magazine. There are still a handful of correspondents who were there. Oliver Darcy reported that they huddled. What are you watching for what do you think those conversations look like? Could there be more who leave? What do you think?
- [32:31]
Scott McFarlane
Certainly possible. But let's be clear. If they're changing up the flavor or the formula, if they're changing house, 60 Minutes approaches its job or delivers its product, this is a little different because, Jen, in this case, people will still sample it at first. They'll still consume it. Any other industry starts screwing with the brand, screwing with the formula, and suddenly you have New Coke and Everybody checks out. 60 Minutes is still going to be on, Jen, after the greatest television program, ratings deliverer of all, the NFL. It'll still be Patrick Mahomes in 60 Minutes. It'll still be Josh Allen, then 60 Minutes, which means people are going to, if nothing else, stumble upon the new show management. It's an enormous responsibility to keep this thing strong, but it feels, Jen, it feels like you're sending your kids out in the backyard to toss around a $200 million Faberge egg and you just hope they don't drop it and damage it. We hope they don't drop and damage this priceless thing.
- [33:31]
Host/Jen Psaki
There's another part of Pelly's statement that. That struck me. I mean, there are many parts of it, honestly. But he wrote, new management has instructed me to inj and bias into a politically sensitive story. I've been told to include assertions that are unverified. And a CBS spokesperson, of course, denies that claim, saying there's no political interference at CBS News. Not from ownership, not from Bari Weiss. Your last six months at CBS News were under the management of Bari Weiss. Is that something you ever experienced or any of your colleagues while you were there?
- [34:02]
Scott McFarlane
I never experienced it. But I can't speak for what the 60 Minutes crew is going through. They're literally kept separate. They're literally across the street from the broadcast center in New York. Jen, in my final weeks there in March 2026, I was saying the following things on the CBS Evening News that Trump is lying about the 2020 election. Trump is lying about January 6th. Nobody put a heavy hand on me. Nobody told me to stop. And respectfully, I was on the air every day. They never tried to mute me. But I wasn't playing in the real estate of 60 Minutes. So I can't speak for what Scott's experiencing. This, though this seems different to me. This doesn't seem like necessarily a heavy hand needs to be played there to be a perception of corporate interference. And that's damaging just in and of itself. If there's a perception of it fairly or unfairly, what are you hearing?
- [34:49]
Host/Jen Psaki
And it's so interesting to hear and understand for people out there, the separation. I knew a version of this, but it's so interesting to hear it from you. What are you hearing from your former colleagues about what's happening inside CBS right now?
- [35:02]
Scott McFarlane
I'm hearing an acceleration of concern about the future, not just of CBS News, but of linear legacy broadcast media already fighting, pushing against the ocean, trying to keep an audience, trying to keep relevant, trying to keep things the way they are. This type of thing where there's a perception of corporate. Trump is today championing new ownership of CNN in his hopes they change the formula. This doesn't help stop the decline. I think they're going to have to find a way over the next few months to improve the pr, improve the morale and get rid of this perception, whether it's fair or unfair.
- [35:40]
Host/Jen Psaki
You may have sort of answered this, but I've been curious. I mean, Barry west has tried to suggest that she and CBS News management made every effort to keep Pelly. Pelly is pushed back, saying no such effort took place. I mean, you know that that's what we've seen out there being reported. He's been quoted as accusing CBS News leadership of actively trying to murder the wildly successful news program. It's hard to know because you're not in there, but you have been in a version of there. What do you think? You said maybe corporate, the perception of corporate involvement. But what's the ultimate goal here for people who are so confused by what is happening with this storied news magazine?
- [36:18]
Scott McFarlane
Broadcast news is in crisis, trying to survive. Not an extinction level event, but a mass casualty business level event where they're going to lose broadcast operations across America because of the changes in the industry. They're fighting against that new management, maybe chasing their better angels to, to modernize things so they don't lose more operations. But they've got a perception coming in there at the President's behest. They've got to find a way to confound that expectation and confound that image or all of this is for not because people are going to be cynical about what they see if they think Trump's hands are in the cake pan.
- [36:59]
Host/Jen Psaki
Scott McFarlane, you are one of the trailblazers of independent media out there coming for a long career in more traditional media. I love talking to you, love watching what you do. Thanks for being here with me tonight as well. Okay, coming up, Democrats hopes of turning Iowa blue. I started the show talking about this. Just got very, very Real Josh Turek just became the Democratic nominee for Senate and he joins me next. Back in 2008, a young up and coming senator named Barack Obama made history and was elected president of the United States. And Obama won in no small part because of voters in the rural state of Iowa who at the time voted blue in the presidential election and other statewide races. And he went on to win the state again in 2012 and beyond. A few exceptions, and there are some not since the Obama days have Democrats been really competitive in Iowa. But now it appears the pendulum could, could very well be swinging back. I mean, this was Politico's headline this morning. Democrats see the stars aligning in Iowa. The economic turmoil of the past year and a half has been felt acutely in Iowa, where the agricultural, agricultural heavy economy has been jolted by tariffs. Medicaid cuts are ransacking rural health facilities, several clinics in the state have closed and the Iran war has spiked prices. And a big reason Iowa Democrats are hopeful again is because of candidates like Josh Turk, who won the Democratic nomination for the US Senate last night and has a real shot this November in part because of messages like this one
- [38:38]
Josh Turek
and no other country on earth could someone born into a working class family from council bless Iowa, who went to the Goodwill shared clothes, had the wrong color lunch ticket, who was born with my disability of spina bifida due to my father's exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam, who had 21 surges before the age of 12, be able to represent the United States in four Paralympic Games and bring home two gold medals and represent their community in the legislature. This campaign has always been about having a senator from Iowa fighting for the people of Iowa, not for the billionaires or the large corporations. This campaign has been about fighting for the middle class, working families, rural communities, small family farms, and working with anyone to address rising costs, stagnant incomes and out of control Corruption in D.C. iowans all over this state have heard our message and felt hope that we can change this state and change this country.
- [39:33]
Host/Jen Psaki
Joining me now fresh off his victory is Josh Turk, the Democratic candidate for U.S. senate in Iowa. Josh, first of all, I hope it's settled in to you. You got a long way to go from here, but you're now officially the nominee. You know that you're going to be facing Republican Congresswoman Ashley Hinson in November. I gave a little bit of what the reporting has been out there, a little bit of background. But what's your theory of the case as to why Iowans may turn away from Republicans this year and toward Democrats like you.
- [40:01]
Josh Turek
Yeah, I think it's a once in a generation opportunity that we've got here in Iowa. First, because as I've been traveling the state for the last 10 months, the thing that we've heard, bar none, urban or rural areas, that Iowans are hurting. They're struggling. They're struggling just to keep a roof above their head, food on the table and gas in their tank. And Iowa is, we are dead last for economic growth. We're 48th for personal income growth. We've closed 250 more healthcare clinics than we've opened. Medicaid cuts have absolutely decimated rural healthcare facilities. We lead the nation in cancer rates. And now because of the tariffs, we are headed towards what I'm calling a farmagedness and farm crisis where we're leading the nation in foreign foreclosures. Iowans are hurting and they're ready for change and they're ready for a common sense prairie populace like myself that's going to fight for them, not for the billionaires and large corporations.
- [40:52]
Host/Jen Psaki
On the topic of tariffs, which, as you mentioned, they've impacted the people of Iowa, farmers in Iowa, communities of Iowa, so extensively, the Supreme Court, I should note, struck those down in February. But then late last night, Trump issued a whole other slew of tariffs, 10 to 12 and a half percent, on 59 countries and the EU it looks like this round is going to be more difficult to overturn in court because it's based on labor practices in those countries. You're running to be in the Senate. If you're in the Senate, if you're in the majority, what are you going to do about these tariffs?
- [41:22]
Josh Turek
Well, first, I think that the tariffs were by the constitution. They're meant to be in the hands of the legislature. And so I think we need to do away with these chaotic tariffs. Tariffs are certainly important and we certainly don't want to see any more offshoring of our jobs like we've seen here in Iowa. But I can tell you that these chaotic tariffs that we're seeing have absolutely decimated our farmers. Our soybean farmers are upside down on their commodities prices. And the word that we hear by far the most when we're in rural communities and we're talking to farmers is betrayal that we, you know, Trump administration gives $20 billion to Argentina. Meanwhile, our Iowa farmers are upside down and it has led to us leading the nation in farm foreclosures. And we've done nothing for our farmers in our rural communities. We haven't passed a Farm bill we've done nothing on right to repair on vertical integration and now we've got this war in Iran and it's leading to fertilizer costs going up, diesel costs going up. And it's time for us to have somebody that's actually going to fight for the people. Not someone like Ashley Henson that in every single one of her votes from healthcare to four time supporting the the tariffs has not looked out for Iowans. She has not. She just looked out for the billionaires of large corporations and has been a rubber stamp for the Trump administration and Iowans are tired of it.
- [42:39]
Host/Jen Psaki
Let me ask you about another issue that's on voters minds in Iowa and people watching may not be fully aware of this because there's a skyrocketing cancer rate in your state. As you know well, Iowa has the second largest cancer rate in the country and it's one of few states where that rate is actually rapidly rising. Iowans blame that increase largely on high nitrates and forever chemical levels in the water supply. What is the difference between how you and your opponent would tackle this important issue?
- [43:08]
Josh Turek
Well, first of all, Ashley Hinson has voted for the big beautiful bill where we're looking at 110,000 Iowans lose their health care and thousands more lose their food assistance, which has led us to closing healthcare clinics all over the state. Two in five Iowans in the rural communities are on Medicaid. I'm out there talking about the need for a public option because I believe that healthcare is a human right. But you're absolutely correct. We have a unique to Iowa cancer crisis. We have the second highest rates behind Kentucky. We're the only state with a growing cancer rate in the Iowa legislature. I was very vocal about this. I put forth a bill every single year that I was there to put $1 for every Iowan to cancer research to go to the University of Iowa. Unfortunately, with what Ashley Hinson ended up voting for with the big beautiful bill, we lost $34 million that was coming here to Iowa to address this. And there's a lot that we need to do. We need infrastructure, we need to return the funding for water quality sensors that we've lost. We need more incentives both at the state and the federal level. And we need more incentives to our farmers, both to prevent them from putting down fertilizer in the winter months. We need incentives to our farmers to put down cover crops and also land barriers because we have a massive nitrate level issue, water quality issue that is leading to the cancer rate. And Ashley Hinson has done nothing about it other than to cut healthcare and close healthcare clinics.
- [44:31]
Host/Jen Psaki
Josh Turk, you've got a long road ahead. A lot of people have big hopes on you. Thank you so much for being here with me tonight. I'm so glad you could join.
- [44:39]
Josh Turek
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. If anyone's interested, Turek fouriowa.com join us. We can push for change. If we can win here in Iowa, we can change the Senate and change the country.
- [44:50]
Host/Jen Psaki
All right. Thank you again. We've got to take a quick break, but Lawrence is a huge show coming up. Democratic leader Hakim Jeffries and Senator John Ossoff will be his guest. We'll be right back. Okay. Very quick reminder about an upcoming live event I would love to see you at. It's if you're in Washington, D.C. of course, on June 14th. I'll be speaking with actor and author Billy Eichner at 6th and I. We're going to talk about his new audiobook, billy on Billy An Audio Memoir. It's very funny. It's very good. It's all about how humor helps get us through difficult times. Some tickets are still available. You can get yours by scanning the QR code you see on your screen. Just point your phone right down to it with the camera. Come see me. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Bluesky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [45:39]
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Host/Jen Psaki
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