← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Panicked by bad news, Trump makes elections power grab and leaves staff sputtering with excuses
00:42:19
Jen Psaki shows how an onslaught of bad news and bad polls for Donald Trump is making him more desperate to control voting and the outcomes of elections in the U.S., and he is actively taking steps to do so while his staff struggle to find alternative explanations for what is going on.
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- [00:01]
Commercial Narrator
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Jen Psaki
Are you my dad now?
- [00:48]
Dan Goldman
No, sorry. I do basements. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust. Define the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
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Jen Psaki
So for a guy who cares about holding onto power pretty much more than anything else, Donald Trump cannot possibly be feeling good right now. I mean, this was this scene just two nights ago at a town hall for one of the most vulnerable House Republicans, Congressman Mike Lawler.
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Dan Goldman
For instance, the five year old boy that was detained, that father left his child.
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Jen Psaki
He ran away from his child.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
And.
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Dan Goldman
The ICE agents. The ICE agents were actually protecting the child.
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Mark Elias
Hey, bro, bro, you can leave now.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
Goodbye.
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Dan Goldman
Goodbye.
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Jen Psaki
We won't proceed until you're gone. Goodbye, happy day. So that went well for Mike Lawler. I mean, also, obviously yelling bro, you can leave is something you should do when you're trying to build support in your community and you're literally not a town hall in the district you're trying to win. But he's not asking me for advice. Anyway, that is a seat Republicans desperately need to hold onto this November if they wanna keep control of the House. It's a super tiny margin. And Mike Lawlor is a guy who won back in 2022 in large part because he scared the hell out of the people in his district with ads run from his campaign and from outside groups with basically this message that, that he was gonna be tough on the border and on immigration doesn't seem kind of like that's really working for him anymore. So there's that. Now that raucous town hall came on the heels of even more bad news for the president and his party. Because on Saturday in the state of Texas, a Democrat, local union leader and first time political candidate Taylor Remt won a special election for Texas State Legislature, defeating his Republican opponent by 414 points in a district Trump won by 17 points just over a year ago. That is a 31 point swing toward Democrats in just 14 months. And then there's even more numbers. There's, of course, the polling. It's really hard. Really, really hard. I can promise you, to win in a suing district when the leader of your party has an approval rating in the 30s. It just is. And look at that. That's a couple of polls there on your screen. That's his approval rating. And all of that, all of that and more was probably on Trump's mind yesterday when he decided to catch up with a disgruntled former employee, the podcaster turned deputy FBI director turned podcaster again, Dan Bongino. And Trump sat down for an interview with Bongino, or the Podfather, as Bongino calls himself. And in the middle of a discussion about crime and immigration, Trump suddenly said this.
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Todd Blanche
The Republicans should say, we want to take over. We should take over the voting. The voting in at least many 15 places. The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting.
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Jen Psaki
Okay, so you could probably hear that pretty well. We put it on the screen just in case. But that is Donald Trump saying he wants Republicans to take over and nationalize voting in at least 15 places. And it certainly would not be just 15 places if he were to do this. Now, while the federal government is allowed to make general laws about voting, the Constitution specifically gives the states control over elections. So having the federal government, and I would note the Trump controlled federal government take control of elections would be a wild anti Democratic power grab. It's not like it was a slip of the tongue or he just said it once off the cuff. I mean, he kept talking about it. What exactly did you mean when you said that you should nationalize elections? In which 15 states are you talking about?
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Todd Blanche
I want to see elections, be honest. And if a state can't run an election, I think the people behind me should do something about it. Because, you know, if you think about it, a state is an agent for the federal government in elections. I don't know why the federal government doesn't do them anyway. Go to 2020 and look at the facts that are coming out. Rigged, crooked elections. If we have areas, take a look at Detroit, take a look at Pennsylvania, take a look at Philadelphia. You go take a look at Atlanta. Look at some of the places that horrible corruption on elections and the federal government should not allow that. The federal government should get Involved, A.
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Jen Psaki
State is an agent for the federal government in elections. Okay. Now, we all know Trump didn't like the outcome in 2020, and he wants the federal government to take over the elections. And in predominantly democratic cities, those are the ones he mentioned, because the federal government he runs in his mind will make sure it works out the way he wants. And, yes, the truth is, Trump has been fixated on this issue for a very long time. But what is different now is that Trump has, well, a whole lot of lackeys in his administration who want to please Daddy and are willing to follow through on his election takeover plans. I mean, last week, we saw these extraordinary images of Trump's Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, looking on, lurking, I will say creepily, as FBI agents seized boxes and boxes of 2020 ballots from officials in Fulton County, Georgia. And today, the Atlanta Journal Constitution published body camera footage from the local police officers on the scene during that raid. And it shows just how completely chaotic and haphazard the search really was.
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Dan Goldman
So did anybody get a physical copy.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
Of the search warrant? No. When did they get here? About 12:30.
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Dan Goldman
Just unannounced.
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Mark Elias
Unannounced.
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Jen Psaki
What's happening now is that their warrant is wrong. It had the wrong.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
It's not in elections possession, it's in clerk's possession. So it had the wrong department.
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Dan Goldman
So on our end, nobody received a copy of.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
They just. They.
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Jen Psaki
The attorneys asked them for it.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
They finally gave him a copy, then.
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Jen Psaki
It turns out it's wrong.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
So they're allegedly waiting for the judge to update it.
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Jen Psaki
So, I mean, that's some of it. You get confused police and confused local officials, agents demanding access despite having the wrong warrant for the wrong facility, all while the Director of National Intelligence, who was supposed to have no role in domestic law enforcement, was just standing by, lurking in her cap. Now, in the days after that raid, Trump's DOJ initially tried to pretend like there was nothing weird at all about Trump's Director of National Intelligence showing up in person at an FBI raid. I mean, on Friday, when Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was asked about Tulsi Gabbard's presence, a perfectly reasonable question we all wanted the answer to. He acted like it was a crazy thing for a reporter to ask. Could you please explain Tulsi Gabbard's role.
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Commercial Narrator
In DOJ activity regarding the Fulton county search?
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Mark Elias
What do you mean, her role?
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Jen Psaki
It was reported that she was.
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Dan Goldman
She happened to be present in Atlanta. I mean, yes, I saw the same photos you did. I mean, she's not she doesn't work for the Department of Justice or the FBI.
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Jen Psaki
What do you mean, her role? Yeah, we all are wondering why the Director of National Intelligence was there. According to him, she just happened to be there. She was in the neighborhood, thought she'd pop by and taken a nice FBI raid or something like that. I mean, that was obviously not true. And this week, Gabbard herself confirmed it, writing in a letter to Democrats on the House and Intelligence Senate Intelligence Committees that, quote, my presence was requested by the President. There you go, Todd Blanche. And that's consistent, of course, with the Wall Street Journal's reporting that Gabbard has been assigned a new role, studying information about voting machines, analyzing data from swing states and pursuing theories that President Trump has promoted to claim the 2020 election was unfairly taken from him. Then there was also Todd Blanche's attempt on Sunday to downplay Trump's role in the seizure of Georgia ballots. The President told reporters, quote, they got into the votes. You're going to see some interesting things happening. What interesting things is he talking about and why was he so involved in an FBI and DOJ raid?
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Dan Goldman
Well, just because he said that doesn't mean that he's involved.
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Mark Elias
I don't believe he was involved.
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Jen Psaki
I don't know what happened there. I think he may have gone cross eyed for a second when Dan asked him a very reasonable question. Well, his answer also turned out to be false. We have since learned that the President was not only involved in the raid, but in an extraordinary and unusual turn of events, he was actually in touch with Tulsi Gabbard and spoke to the FBI agents who conducted the search via speakerphone. All according to the New York Times. The President of the United States is not supposed to be in direct communication with FBI agents about their investigations, which are supposed to be independent of political influence. But none of that seems to have bothered FBI Director Kash Patel, who thought the whole thing was awesome. Super rad.
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Mark Elias
To hear from the Commander in chief.
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Jen Psaki
For my troops on the ground, there was a pretty cool thing and we.
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Dan Goldman
Were pleased to hear the President come.
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Jen Psaki
In and say thank you for what you're doing. That is maybe unusual from prior administrations, but I take it every chance I get. Pretty, pretty cool the way the President just broke with decades of FBI protocol there. Kash Patel, pretty cool. He's the commander in chief in there. Wait, what did Patel call him? His troops on the ground. And this isn't just a run of the mill investigation. They were seizing voting data about an election Trump claims he won so that he can justify putting in place more restrictive voting measures in advance of the midterms. That's what's happening here. Now, in a normal world, that would be something that congressional leaders of both parties would push back on. And I will give Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune just a teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny tiny bit of credit here. Today he said that he is, quote, not in favor of federalizing elections. Okay. Though he also attempts to explain away Trump's comments, saying the President was just talking about restrictive voter ID legislation, which is bad enough, but the President was not talking about that.
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Mark Elias
Yet.
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Jen Psaki
There's still much more pushback from the Senate, from the Senate Majority Leader, than we got from little Mike Johnson, who decided to just embrace Trump's election conspiracies with open arms. He is going to get a special White House cookie for this one.
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Mark Elias
What you're hearing from the President is his frustration about the lack of some of the blue states, frankly, of enforcing these things and making sure that they are free and fair. Election. We had three House Republican candidates who were ahead on Election Day in the last election cycle, and every time a new tranche of ballots came in, they just magically whittled away until their leads were lost. It looks on its face to be fraudulent. Can I prove that? No. Because it happened so far upstream.
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Jen Psaki
That conspiracy theorist just happens to be second in line to the presidency. And as crazy as his comments were today, they're also not particularly surprising from him, because, after all, it was Congressman Mike Johnson who played a key role trying to help Trump overturn the election in 2020 by organizing a lawsuit on Trump's behalf. And that's sort of the point here. Trump is now surrounded by people who will indulge his worst impulses on this. I mean, his Director of National Intelligence has been tasked with proving claims of foreign interference. His DOJ has seized ballots from a key county in Georgia. And. And Trump's already talking about nationalizing elections. The thing is, we already know what this might look like because we saw him contemplate a version of this playbook back in 2020. After losing that election, Trump wanted to use the US military to seize voting machines and all other voting records from the states. In fact, there was a draft executive order directing the Pentagon to do just that. It ordered the Secretary of Defense to seize, collect, retain, and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information and. And material relating to the 2020 election. Now, the basis for that order, unsurprisingly, was a proverbial grab bag of conspiracy theories, all alleging international and foreign interference in the 2020 election. And in an echo of what we're seeing today, the Director of National Intelligence would have had a key role in overseeing the findings from that operation. Thankfully, that executive order was never issued. Trump was essentially talked out of the whole idea. But just last month he told the New York Times that he regretted it. I should have done it, he said. And now it appears he's got a second chance to try to use that playbook. Joining me now is Mark Elias. He is one of the leading election law experts in the country and the founder of democracy docket. There is so much I want to ask you about. I wish you could be in like every dinner table and conversation in Amtrak's where people ask me what's going to happen, because this is what you spend your time thinking about. But let me just start by asking you for your top line reaction to what we heard from Donald Trump yesterday and then again today about a federal takeover of elections. And obviously it's not how the Constitution works, but it feels, it sounds like a new rhetorical step for him. You've been sounding the alarm on this longer than most people. What do you make of his latest comments and how do you think people should be digesting them?
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Mark Elias
I think people should be concerned. I mean, the fact is that Donald Trump is telling us that if he doesn't like the outcome of the elections, that he will seize ballots and he will use the full force of the federal government, the executive branch in particular, to alter the outcome. I mean, this is not actually that revolutionary. I mean, as you point out, there was an executive order that he was prepared to sign in 2020. He didn't sign it in large measurements from what we can tell, because the White House Counsel's office would have resigned, others in the White House would have resigned, and then people at the Department of Justice told him he couldn't do it. Well, I'd ask you, who exactly is gonna resign? Is it gonna be Stephen Miller? Do we think Stephen Miller is gonna get in the way? Do we think that Pam Bondi is gonna be the one saying can't do it? No. He's surrounded by enablers. And so I think you got it exactly right, Jen. As he becomes less and less popular, he is looking for ways to keep power. So first he went with the mid cycle redistricting that looks like that didn't quite lead to the boun hoped maybe it'll even backfire in places like Texas. And now he is rolling out the idea that he will you know, take control of the elections. And to be clear, he at the end of that quote says nationalize the election. What he actually says earlier is that the Republicans should take control of the the voting and that they should target 15 states. I agree it will be more than 15 states, but he's not looking to nationalize all the elections. He's just looking to take over the places that vote Democratic.
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Jen Psaki
Yeah. And ones where he can win, I suppose, or where he wants to win them back. Right. Let me ask you about one of our incredible producers. Will reminded us all today of the executive orders that were drafted years ago. Do you look at those and think as much as you think about this? This is what they're looking at. This is what they could dust off because they've sort of telegraphed for us with all of this reporting that Tulsi Gabbard is doing this report. They've talked the reporting suggests also they're preparing executive orders. Do you look at those as a model or what are you thinking they might be considering?
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Mark Elias
I mean, I think everything we've seen between his first term and his second term is that it's worse now. So in some respects, yes, I think that those executive orders are templates, but I actually think it'll be quite a bit worse than that. So, you know, one of the facts that you're reporting on this was excellent, by the way. But the one fact that I would add to this is that you didn't see the U.S. attorney's office in Georgia as the ones who were signing and seeking that warrant. Instead, it was a prosecutor in Missouri. And this is something that you're seeing a lot here. They're picking individual prosecutors willing to do their dirty work, even if they have no connection with the jurisdiction. And that is an innovation that is quite dangerous because that lawyer, that U.S. attorney in Missouri now has nationwide jurisdiction. So it's not just in Georgia. He's like a roaming election denier, enforcer, lawyer for the federal government. And the other thing I'd ask, you know, based on your reporting, you know, Jen, would you rather at this point have him try to order the US Military to do this or the paramilitary that we see going on in Minnesota? Right. I'm less worried that he's going to get the Pentagon to do this. I'm more worried that the people who are shooting through doors and shooting women in the face and the other things, that they're going to be the ones doing it. So I think it's a template, but I think it could be worse.
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Jen Psaki
To your point, I mean, his militarizing the streets in a variety of ways during that Dan Bongino interview, he also talks about how you have to scoop people up and send them out of the country because if they all vote, Republicans will lose. He's just reminding us again and again what he's gonna do. I also wanted to mention, we wanted to mention the Speaker Johnson piece of this, because you don't forget this. I think probably most people watching don't forget this, but we're all consuming so much information. I mean, he was an election denier, og original election denier, and now he's the second in line to the presidency. And he said, I mean, Trump said. Trump has basically alluded to wanting him to help him. You saw what he said today. We just played it. Help us understand, if Trump wants to do this, he's the speaker of the House. Beyond passing legislation, what else can he do? What is in the power of Mike Johnson that you think about and you worry about?
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Mark Elias
Yeah, so I'm glad you mentioned that. Mike Johnson. I represented President Biden and the democrats against the 60 plus lawsuits that we helped defeat. And Mike Johnson played a very critical role at that time. Mike Johnson garnered support in the House for a brief before the U.S. supreme Court to try to overturn the election in four states. And then when that failed, he was sort of the whip. He was a backbencher, but he was effectively the whip for getting Republicans in the House to vote against certification on the night of January 6, even after all the violence. So this guy's credentials as an election denier, as you point out, are hardcore. Now, he's the speaker of the House. And the speaker of the House has a lot of power. I mean, the speaker of the House not only can move legislation, but the speaker of the House can claim to speak for Congress in terms of what he wants the executive branch to do or not do with respect to voting. Now, you know, he can't, he doesn't have unilateral power in that regard. But, but he, he will certainly, I am sure, when the time comes, give rhetorical cover. Because as you point out, what the Constitution says is that far from the states being the agents of the federal government, in fact, the states have primary responsibility for setting the time, place and manner of elections. Except Congress, through appropriate legislation, can overturn those. And obviously, Mike Johnson alone can't pass legislation. But you can see he could give the kind of COVID to Donald Trump to say, well, I really do speak for the House. And that would be dangerous. One of the lawsuits that Mike Law Firm and I just won in Washington, D.C. the federal judge specifically found that the president, Donald Trump, has no power over elections. So he's asserting a role he doesn't have. And my concern is that Mike Johnson, by putting himself in the mix, will sort of try to suggest that Donald Trump's actions are consistent with Congress.
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Jen Psaki
That's why he's one to watch. And this big web that you spend so much of your time really fighting for all of us. Marc Elias, thank you as always. Hope we'll keep this conversation going. I know it's of great interest to people. Appreciate you being here.
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Mark Elias
Thanks, Jen.
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Jen Psaki
Okay. I've been in Washington a long time. I've watched a lot of congressional hearings, but I have never seen one quite like the Democratic shadow hearing we saw today, in part because of what we're going through as a country. And this hearing had survivors of ICE's brutality tell their stories. It was incredibly powerful. We're going to play some of it for for you. Senator Richard Blumenthal led that hearing Capitol Hill today and he joins me next.
- [21:28]
Commercial Narrator
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- [21:58]
Jen Psaki
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Todd Blanche
Make it quick, young man.
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Jen Psaki
Aw. See, Pop Pop trusts you.
- [22:16]
Dan Goldman
I think we should call a doctor. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
- [22:27]
Jen Psaki
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Jen Psaki
Today, Democrats in Congress held what's called a shadow hearing. Wasn't an official hearing because without the majority in the House or the Senate, Democrats don't have the power to call for official congressional committee hearings on their own. But today, a group of Democrats from both the House and the Senate held a hearing anyway, a public forum so that the American people could hear more about ICE brutality. And among the witnesses called for today's hearing were three people who have personally been brutalized by federal immigration agents in recent months, all three of them U.S. citizens. Now, you may remember seeing this video. I know it stuck with me. Of Aaliyah Rahman, who being dragged from her car by federal agents in Minneapolis last month. We played this so many times. She is autistic and has a traumatic brain injury, and she was on her way to the doctor when she got stuck behind traffic and agents told her to move her car. But there was nowhere to move. Federal agents then broke her windows, forced her from the car and dragged her again. A person with a traumatic brain injury face down through the street. She says she can no longer lift her arms normally because of that. And even after being treated like that, she says that when she saw federal agents doing to others what she saw them doing to others inside the Whipple Detention center in Minneapolis was much worse. What the world saw happen to me exactly three weeks ago today on video was a terrible violation. It is still nothing compared to the horrific practices I saw inside the Whipple Center. You might also remember the story of Marima Martinez. Federal immigration agents shot her five times after their cars collided in Chicago last October, and Martinez maintains that the agents swerved into her car while on purpose. And according to Congressman Robert Garcia, who helped organize today's forum, the agent that shot her allegedly bragged about it.
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Dan Goldman
The agent linked an article about your shooting and texted, read it. Five shots, seven holes. I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys.
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Jen Psaki
Then there was the story of Martin Daniel Rascal. And back in August, he was running an errand with his family when he says two unmarked trucks boxed in their car. Four men in face masks then surrounded the car, refusing to identify themselves. The men then shattered the car windows and the driver, completely terrified, attempted to flee. And one of the masked men then shot at the car multiple times. I will never forget the fear and having to quickly duck my head as the shots were fired at the car. Any one of those bullets could have killed me or two people that I love goes without saying. But the unidentified masked men that shot at Mr. Rascon were federal immigration agents. Now, in addition to those firsthand accounts, we also heard today from the brothers of Renee Nicole Goode, who spoke about the pain of not just losing their sister, but of her killing at the hands of ICE officers not leading immediately to change.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
In the last few weeks, our family took some consolation, thinking that perhaps Nay's.
- [26:26]
Jen Psaki
Death would bring about change in our.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
Country.
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Mark Elias
And it has not.
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Jen Psaki
Imagine being that brother. Joining me now is the senator who organized that hearing, Senator Richard Blumenthal. Senator Blumenthal, I've watched those videos a number of times. It's still tough to watch them because these are American citizens. They have been terrorized by people who are working for the federal government. This is the country we're living in right now. We showed all of that because we wanted people who maybe hadn't seen the hearings to see it. But you were in these hearings today. You helped organize them. You helped lead them. What really stuck out to you from.
- [27:06]
Senator Richard Blumenthal
The hearings today, what struck me is the bravery of these people who've been victimized and terrorized by their own government, people whose agents of the government have shot at them, trying to execute them, and in one case, almost killing them, just as they murdered Goode and Petrie. So we need to rein in this agency. And what struck me as well is how impactful and powerful their testimony was. I hope it will move my Republican colleagues to accede to the demands that we're making. My view is unless those demands are met, we should shut down dhs, because this kind of lawlessness and brutality are spanning our country. Minneapolis is everywhere in America. We are all Minneapolis. And these witnesses are simply asking for accountability and reform.
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Jen Psaki
Brutalized, not receiving medical care, which came up over and over again, which really struck us. So let's talk about what's next here, because we're now, we have 10 days now until the deadline here or the timeline of when changes would have to be negotiated. What do you think? Today's speaker, Mike Johnson, sort of poured water on the possibility of anything happening, and the negotiations haven't really even started yet. What do you think is possible here in these negotiations in terms of changes that could happen? You've been in Washington a long time. What do you think Republicans, Republicans might be willing to agree to of the things Democrats have demanded?
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
First, we need to match their bravery with ours on the Democratic side and stand strong and speak out unequivocally, clearly, so that their stories are elevated and they are as impactful with the public as they were in that room. And move our Republican colleagues. And I think the demands we're making are no more novel or radical than what local police forces have to comply with. I have advised local police forces when I was attorney general of the state and we're asking them to do exactly what local police forces do. So I say to them, go talk to your local cops. Ask them for advice as to what restraints and reforms we should impose. And it has to be top to bottom because the directives for the quotas, deportation and arrest come from the top. The policies about breaking down doors and smashing into home come from the top, violations of the Fourth Amendment. And I've called for the impeachment of Kristi Noem. But it's not as much people as systems that need to be changed. So mass off badges on body cameras, judicial warrants. And for me, most important is a measure of accountability that gives citizens recourse just as they do against local and state police when their black rights are violated under federal law. Local cops can be sued by individuals who are harmed, but the federal agents cannot be and rights without a remedy are empty promises. So I'm going to be fighting for change to the Federal Statute 42, United States Code 1983 for look that up.
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Jen Psaki
At home.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
The lawyers who watch them. But it's really kind of simple and straightforward. All we need to change is four words in the law.
- [30:49]
Jen Psaki
Well, this is going to be an ongoing fight and certainly the passion of the people out there is behind these efforts and more. I will say if Democrats win back the House and Senate and we're going.
- [30:57]
Senator Richard Blumenthal
To continue, we're continuing through the permanent subcommittee on investigation with our investigation continuing to work with Robert Garcia and the House. It'll be a real fight. But we're ready for it.
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Jen Psaki
We'll keep talking about it. Thank you for being here as always.
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Senator Richard Blumenthal
Thank you.
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Jen Psaki
All right. Coming up last night Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch said of all things, it's not a crime to party with Jeffrey Epstein. I guess technically that is true, but it's quite a thing to come out of your mouth. And that also tells you basically everything you need to know. Congressman Dan Goldman is standing by. He worked with Todd Blanche for years in the Southern District of New York. And he joins me next.
- [31:37]
Commercial Narrator
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Mark Elias
We only met a month ago.
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Dan Goldman
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Mark Elias
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- [31:50]
Dan Goldman
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- [32:21]
Jen Psaki
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Commercial Narrator
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- [32:47]
Jen Psaki
And remember, you're right on time. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off. The Trump administration has been very clear they are not interested in following up on any of the new revelations from the latest batch of Epstein files. Really? Not at all. Trump's deputy attorney general and former defense attorney Todd Blanche said as much last night. Is there any chance that any of these individuals who partied with Epstein and engaged in relations with minors will be prosecuted? Any chance?
- [33:28]
Dan Goldman
I'll never say no, and we will always investigate any evidence of misconduct. But as you know, it is not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein.
- [33:38]
Jen Psaki
It's not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein? I guess not. Technically, though, he is a massive sexual predator, so I'm not sure it's something you'd brag about either. Point is, that's quite the line from an administration that spent years, years whipping up the base, telling them they would be the ones who would do everything possible to get the truth out about Epstein and any co conspirators. It's also quite aligned considering the fact that the documents do appear to contain new information that, well, might be worth another look if one were so inclined. Like communications between Epstein and Trump's Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, or between Epstein and Trump's top donor Elon Musk. I mean, Lutnick claims he spent zero time with Epstein, and Musk says he never partied with Epstein or went to his island. Of course, simply having your name appear in the Epstein file does not make a person guilty of any crimes. But apparently we are supposed to just take Trump's word for it that there's nothing to see here. Elon Musk was also in there and so was your Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and correspondents that he had with him. Did you read those new files that were published by the Department of Justice?
- [34:46]
Todd Blanche
I have a lot of things I'm doing. A lot of things I'm doing. I don't know. You mentioned two names. I'm sure they're fine. I'm sure they're fine. Otherwise it would have been major headlines.
- [34:56]
Jen Psaki
A lot of women who were are survivors of Epstein's are unhappy with those redactions that came out. Some of the entire witness interviews are totally blacked out. Do you think that they should be more transparent?
- [35:06]
Todd Blanche
They thought they released too much. You know, I heard that. And you tell me something else. I think it's really time for the country to get onto something else. Really, you know, now that nothing came out about me.
- [35:21]
Jen Psaki
I mean, just let's everybody move on, shall we? Well, we're not going to move on, obviously. But joining me now is New York Democratic Congressman and member of the House Judiciary Committee, Dan Goldman. Okay. We've all been wading through, I mean, news organizations, committees and members of Congress, all of these documents that have come out and there are certainly many in there. There was information in there that came from tip lines that is unsubstantiated and things like that. But there are some pieces of information in there that feels like they could warrant follow up. But let me ask you this from more of a you're a former prosecutor. Is there stuff in there that you've seen that you think warrants more questioning, more investigation, more follow up? And if so, what, what stuck out to you?
- [36:05]
Dan Goldman
Oh, I think there definitely is. Even just the tip line. I mean, the tip line has allegations that Donald Trump sexually assaulted a 13 year old. And it's unclear whether and to what extent they chased that tip down and whether there was a true investigation into it. That would obviously be something that you would want to investigate. The interesting thing that really jumps out to me about the release right now is, yes, we're combing through a lot of these communications and certainly I don't think anybody should be so glib as Mr. Blanche was about saying, it's not a crime to party with a notorious sex trafficker sexual predator who raped young kids at those parties. But the survivors that I have been communicating with are really upset and they're upset for multiple reasons. They're upset because notwithstanding all the time we heard about these redactions and why they were a month and a half late and last March they were spending hours and hours, thousands of hours redacting, redacting. The redactions were incomplete. And the whole point of the redactions under the law is to protect victim identification information. They published nude photos of potential victims. They published, I saw one document that was literally the subject of an email was Epstein victim list. And there were about 30 plus, I'm sure you saw this, 30 plus names on it. One name was redacted. So it's not like they just missed the page. They chose not to redact those. And then when you hear the Department of Justice say, oh, there's nothing to investigate here, we would need, I think Blanche said in that interview with Laura Ingraham, oh, well, you know, the emails aren't enough, we would need. Pictures aren't enough, we would need witnesses. The survivors have been asking to meet with the Department of Justice and they have not been given that opportunity. So how can you sit there saying you need witnesses when you are not allowing the witnesses to come in? And so this is just part of a continued and massive coverup that has been going on for a year now where clearly they are trying to protect either Donald Trump and there's a lot that needs to be investigated about Donald Trump in there or others that is within their orbit because there's still millions of pages that haven't been turned over.
- [38:38]
Jen Psaki
Yeah. Okay. I have about 12 follow up questions from everything you just said. First on the tip line. I asked that because I think so many people out there, you're seeing all this information flow, you don't know what to overvalue, undervalue. Obviously those things are unsubstantiated. But what you're saying it sounds like is those things should be looked into, they should have been followed up or they would have been followed up on perhaps by a normal Department of Justice.
- [39:01]
Dan Goldman
Absolutely.
- [39:01]
Jen Psaki
And asked questions about them at least.
- [39:02]
Mark Elias
Absolutely.
- [39:03]
Dan Goldman
And look, this case was with the Southern District for a long time. I'm sure that they did a lot of this investigation and some of this investigative work, whether it's the tip lines or not. But what we don't see in those files is any conclusion to those investigations. I think there appear to be many, many reports that are not in there. And there are a lot of reports that redact people who may be co conspirators, which is exactly what they were not supposed to redact. So we have Asked on the Judiciary Committee for time, they've offered us to go to the Department of Justice and review the unredacted materials. And we're looking to do that as soon as we possibly can.
- [39:45]
Jen Psaki
And you don't have a date yet, though?
- [39:46]
Dan Goldman
I have not yet heard back.
- [39:48]
Jen Psaki
Well, that will be interesting to hear about. Okay, stay right where you are. We have. I gotta read this quote to you because I'm gonna give you just a moment to think about it. Maybe you've seen this because today a just department lawyer was in court in Minneapolis and trying to explain basically ace's failure to follow court orders and release people that had wrongfully detained. And that lawyer told the judge, quote, I wish you would just hold me in contempt of court so I can get 24 hours of sleep. The system sucks. This job sucks. It's quite a thing to say. We'll talk about that. We're also going to talk about your visit to a New York City ICE facility when we come back after a quick break. Okay, I just read this before the break, but it's worth repeating. This was the quote today from a federal prosecutor working in Minnesota on behalf of Trump's Justice Department during its surge in immigration detentions. The system sucks. This job sucks. I wish you would just hold me in contempt of court so I could get 24 hours of sleep. And the judge responds, some of this is, of course, your own making because of non compliance with orders, which is fact check true. The judge goes on to express frustration over how people with no criminal records are being wrongfully detained even after judges have ordered their immediate release. Now, the context of all of this, of course, is a legal system that is overwhelmed with people who are filing habeas corpus petitions, exercising their basic right to challenge their detention, because the Trump administration's immigration enforcement surge is sweeping up too many people. Now, another important piece of context is that career prosecutors are fleeing the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota, leaving that flood of cases to fewer and fewer lawyers. And that's how you get a quote like this job sucks kind of situation. Democratic Congressman and former prosecutor Dan Goldman is back with me. What we're seeing at ICE facilities and the absolute terrorizing of communities and abuse of power is happening all across the country. Of course, in Minnesota, we see it a lot. But you recently visited an ICE facility in New York City, 26 Federal Plaza, I believe it was, which is actually where your Manhattan district office is also located. You had some very interesting observations about what you saw there. Tell us about what you saw and what your theory is as to what's exactly going on in this facility?
- [42:18]
Dan Goldman
Yeah, I've been trying to go there for nine months. And over last summer, we saw some video, some witness testimony about how awful the conditions were in there, even to the point where a judge enjoined ICE from continuing to operate them in unconstitutional conditions. So we filed a lawsuit. Eleven of my colleagues and I filed a lawsuit against DHS because they were preventing us from doing oversight. We won that lawsuit back in December and I made two visits. The first visit I made was before they were expecting me. And I walked in and there were almost as many cleaning people as there were immigrants there. There were nine immigrants. It was spic and span. I went again and there were a few more there. I went on Monday after giving them seven days notice as they required, before a judge ruled again in our favor in that case, allowing us to do unannounced visits. And there were three immigrants there and no activity. Now, across the street, you mentioned my district office, we are running a massive triage rapid response center where families of immigrants who are detained come over to us. We get them checked in, we deal with their immigration case, make sure they get settled, and refer them to lawyers who are filing habeas petitions that day. Just like you mentioned, a lot of these lawyers, because it is imperative to do it quickly before they leave New York. If they leave New York, you have no jurisdiction over them. Now, through this process over the last couple months, we've been able to get 13 immigrants released. But what I believe is now happening, and based on some of the conversations I have, is they're not keeping them at that facility anymore. They are either arresting them in the court there or in the check ins and they are getting them out of the state as soon as they possibly can to to avoid the habeas petitions that are being filed by lawyers that we're referring to and others as well.
- [44:27]
Jen Psaki
So basically so that they lose their rights, essentially.
- [44:30]
Dan Goldman
Right. Because if they go down to Louisiana or Texas, there are not lawyers, immigration lawyers trying to do this. And the judges are just not nearly as amenable to releasing them when, as that judge said from Minnesota, none of them have criminal records who are arrested at the courthouse. Almost. Right. I mean, they're going to court because they're in many cases lawfully applying here through the asylum case. So when they get snatched and removed, that's illegal. Kristi Noem admitted that in a hearing. And more than 70% of the immigrants who are arrested by ICE have not only no criminal convictions, but no criminal arrests either. So we talk about the worst of the worst. This is nothing. This is not the worst and worst. These are people who are trying to do it the right way. And what makes it worse is that we have so many criminal law enforcement agents in the federal government who are being used for this immigration dragnet. They're being taken away from the criminal investigations of the bad guys. So the public is actually a lot less safe because of this immigration dragnet.
- [45:40]
Jen Psaki
Congressman Dan Goldman, we covered a lot. Thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it so much. We have to sneak in a very quick break, but Lawrence has Congressman Jamie Raskin standing by. And we'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [46:06]
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