Polls show Americans aren't buying Trump team's ignorance ploy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki Episode: Polls Show Americans Aren't Buying Trump Team's Ignorance Ploy
Release Date: May 15, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC

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Introduction

In this episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki, host Jen Psaki delves into the pressing political issues of the week, focusing primarily on the controversial Medicaid cuts proposed by House Republicans, the alleged corruption within the Trump administration, and the public's growing disapproval of these actions. The episode features in-depth discussions with Democratic Senators Cory Booker and Jon Ossoff, who provide critical insights into the current political landscape and the administration's handling of various crises.

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Medicaid Cuts and Nationwide Protests

Jen Psaki opens the discussion by highlighting the resurgence of protests against House Republican proposals to cut Medicaid. Images of members of the disability community protesting outside Speaker Mike Johnson's office are shown, with at least 26 arrests reported.

Key Points:

• Public Outcry: Protests are not confined to Washington, D.C., but are widespread across the country, including rallies by healthcare workers in Oakland, California, and Dunkirk, New York.
• Democratic Support: Senator Cory Booker and other Democratic lawmakers have publicly supported the protesters, urging them to "keep fighting and stay strong."

Notable Quote:

"Senator Cory Booker and other Democratic lawmakers went over to the House, joined them and thanked those protesters. He also told them to keep fighting and to stay strong." [02:15] Jen Psaki

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Allegations of Corruption in the Trump Administration

The conversation shifts to allegations of corruption within the Trump administration, focusing on Trump's recent meeting with the Emir of Qatar and the proposed $400 million "sky palace" plane, which critics argue could serve as a personal aircraft for Trump post-presidency.

Key Points:

• Qatari Deal: Trump’s meeting with Qatar officials to accept lavish gifts raises concerns about potential corruption and conflicts of interest.
• Cryptocurrency Schemes: The Trump family's involvement in cryptocurrency deals, including a $2 billion investment backed by the UAE government, is scrutinized for possible ethical breaches.
• Lack of Accountability: Republican members of Congress are criticized for their apparent ignorance and lack of oversight regarding these deals.

Notable Quotes:

"A $400 million plane plus a 2 billion dollar crypto deal from the governments of countries in the Middle East does kind of make all of that seem like small ball."
[04:21] Senator Jon Ossoff

"Whatever President Trump is doing is out in the open. They seem to be going to great pains not to call out things that are obviously corrupt."
[20:20] Senator Cory Booker

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Congressional Hearings and Oversight Failures

Senators Ossoff and Booker express frustration over the Trump administration's performance during congressional hearings, highlighting instances where cabinet members displayed a lack of knowledge about their own departments.

Key Points:

• Health Secretary RFK Jr.: Criticized for his handling of the measles outbreak, with over 1,000 cases reported and inadequate responses from the Health and Human Services department.
• Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy: Accused of blaming the previous administration for current infrastructure issues without acknowledging ongoing efforts to improve the sector.
• General Ignorance: Multiple cabinet members, including Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, are portrayed as unprepared and evasive during hearings.

Notable Quotes:

"He’s only been on the job for 114 freaking days. Maybe at day 50 he'll really hit his stride."
[09:33] Senator Jon Ossoff

"They have such open contempt for the United States Congress and the American people."
[18:40] Senator Cory Booker

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Public Opinion and Polling Data

The episode highlights recent polling data that underscores the public's disapproval of the Trump administration's policies and actions.

Key Points:

• Medicaid Cuts: A Kaiser Family Foundation poll indicates that Americans oppose Medicaid cuts by a 52-point margin.
• Handling of Measles Outbreak: A Reuters Ipsos poll shows a 9-point margin of disapproval for Trump and RFK Jr.'s handling of the measles outbreak.
• Support for Countermeasures: CNN polls reveal substantial voter support for initiatives aimed at bringing individuals like Kilmar Obrega Garcia back to the U.S.

Notable Quote:

"A recent CNN poll found that voters support trying to bring Kilmar Obrega Garcia back to the US by a 36 point margin."
[14:02] Jen Psaki

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Personal Stories Emphasizing Medicaid Impact

Senators emphasize the power of personal narratives over statistical data in garnering public support against Medicaid cuts.

Key Points:

• Humanizing the Issue: Personal stories from individuals and families affected by Medicaid cuts are showcased to illustrate the real-world impact of proposed policies.
• Strategic Communication: Highlighting personal experiences is seen as a more effective strategy than presenting data and charts to influence public opinion.

Notable Quotes:

"If more people, Americans are good folks. If more people know the stories of the people that are being affected, that's what we need to elevate now."
[33:11] Senator Cory Booker

"Data is important too. We're all nerds here."
[34:32] Senator Jon Ossoff

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Newark Airport Infrastructure Crisis

The discussion moves to the ongoing infrastructure crisis at Newark Airport, attributed to administrative staffing cuts and outdated technology.

Key Points:

• Causal Factors: The administration's firing of key FAA officials and a shortage of air traffic controllers have exacerbated operational issues at the airport.
• Emergency Appropriations: Senators are urging Congress to provide $2 billion in emergency funds to address the infrastructure problems.
• Bipartisan Support Needed: Emphasis is placed on the necessity for bipartisan cooperation to resolve the crisis effectively.

Notable Quotes:

"It's unacceptable. And the buck stops with this administration."
[38:30] Senator Cory Booker

"This is about stepping up, taking responsibility and fixing the problems."
[38:18] Senator Jon Ossoff

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Accountability and Future Outlook

Towards the end of the episode, Senators Ossoff and Booker discuss the importance of holding the administration accountable and the role of Congress in ensuring transparency and ethical governance.

Key Points:

• Erosion of Norms: The Senators express concern over the Trump administration's apparent disregard for constitutional checks and balances.
• Role of Congress: Emphasis on Congress's responsibility to investigate and oversee the executive branch to prevent the erosion of democratic principles.
• Future Challenges: The upcoming elections and the potential for increased political activism as a response to the administration's actions are highlighted.

Notable Quote:

"There is no red line. There is no new depth that this administration can plumb that will get these folks to give a damn."
[44:21] Senator Cory Booker

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Conclusion

Jen Psaki wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of public opposition to the Trump administration's policies, particularly regarding Medicaid cuts and alleged corruption. The Senators advocate for continued public activism and legislative oversight to safeguard democratic institutions and protect vulnerable populations.

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Additional Notes:

• The episode includes multiple advertisements, which have been excluded from this summary to focus solely on the content-rich discussions.
• Commercial segments promoting products like Nexguard + Chews, Thrive Market, OnDeck, Goldbelly, and Prolon were skipped as per the summarization guidelines.

Transcript

[Host]

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

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[Senator Cory Booker]

An Emirati government backed Firm did a.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

$2 billion deal using the Trump.

[Host]

Digital coins.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

How did that deal come about?

[Host]

I don't know anything about it. I really don't know anything about it. But I'm a big crypto fan, I will tell you.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What's that you say about the Emirates paying my family? I don't know anything about it, but I love crypto. Big fan. Now this whole deal seems like the kind of thing that would in most circumstances pique the interest of Republicans in Congress. I mean really, anyone in Congress. After all, Republicans spent years crowing about alleged foreign business deals of the so called Biden crime family as they deemed it. I mean a $400 million plane plus a 2 billion dollar crypto deal from the governments of countries in the Middle east does kind of make all of that seem like small ball. But that aside, that's to say nothing of Donald Trump's other cryptocurrency scam. Selling access to the President for anyone who invests in his Meme coin, including foreign interest. They're included, too. Noted crime hunter. Of course, Mike Johnson surely has an opinion about that, right? He must.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Investment in the Meme coin. Those folks are not transparent. We do not know who those people are.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I don't know about the Meme Coin.

[Host]

Coin. I don't know.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I mean, I would note that coverage of the crypto deals has been pretty extensive. It's all over the place, everybody's covering it, and yet somehow the speaker of the House is blissfully ignorant, doesn't know a thing about it. All right, so maybe all this crypto stuff is too complicated, if I'm being generous for a simple country lawyer like Mike Johnson. Maybe that's the thing. What about Trump's palace in the sky, courtesy of Qatar? I mean, that is everywhere. Surely the speaker of the House must have some thoughts on that one, right? If the President were to accept an airplane from the Qatari government, should Congress have approval over that kind of gift?

[Host]

Look, I've been a little busy on reconciliation, so I'm not following all the.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Twists and turns of the Qatar jet. I've certainly heard about it. I'm going to leave it to the administration.

[Senator Cory Booker]

They know much more about the details of that.

[Host]

Okay.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I'm just. It's not my lane. I mean, first of all, it's not at all very twisty or very turny. It's a $400 million plane from Qatar that experts say could cost American taxpayers $1 billion. And again, it's hard to turn on a television and not see coverage of the plane. But, hey, it's on his lane, so, you know, maybe he could ask whoever is supposed to approve presidential emoluments, right? Maybe he could ask that question of somebody. That would be. Hold on, let me just, like, check my notes here. Who does that? Oh, right, yeah, the United States Congress, of which he is the highest ranking member. It's literally their responsibility to approve such things. But really, this may be nothing more complicated probably is than Mike Johnson taking a page right out of Donald Trump and his administration's know nothing, we know nothing about it playbook. I mean, today alone was quite a day of blissful ignorance on Capitol Hill. Quite a day, because multiple members of Trump's cabinet testified today facing questions about the very departments they are supposed to be running. But surprise, surprise, they all don't seem to know anything either. I mean, take for instance, Trump's health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. He is currently overseeing America's response to an unprecedented measles outbreak. Unprecedented? More than 1,000 people in this country have been infected with measles, more than three times the total number of cases than last year. And of course, we're only in May, so it's only probably going to go up, but apparently that's not the HHS secretary's lane.

[Host]

If you had a child today, would you vaccinate that child for measles? For measles, probably for measles.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant.

[Host]

I don't want to measles seem like.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I'm being evasive, but I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice, from me. Do you love how he just seems like he just found himself on a panel? Okay, listen, I hate to agree with RFK Jr on this one, and I rarely agree with him. Yeah, we probably should not be taking the medical advice of a notorious vaccine skeptic during a historic outbreak of an entirely preventable disease. But that said, he is, of course, the Secretary of Health and Human Services. I didn't pick him up, Trump did. The Senate approved him. And that job means he's overseeing the entire health apparatus, responsible for giving exactly that kind of guidance to the American people. That's his job. But at the very least, he's not a health expert. Somehow he should at least know what's going on operationally in his own department. Right? Secretary Kennedy, how many staff have been.

[Host]

Cut from the NIH's Clinical Center? I want a specific number. I can't tell you that now, Senator Barbary.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What I can tell you is that if you contact my office tomorrow, I'll.

[Host]

Look specifically into that. Well, that is not acceptable.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

RFK Jr can't tell you how many people have been cut from the nih. It's literally his job to know that. And I just want to stipulate, and I think this is an important point, that these hearings happen every budget season. I mean, these cabinet members have weeks to prepare. The hearings are scheduled weeks in advance in coordination with the agencies and scheduling teams who work for the people who are running the departments. None of this is a pop quiz. They're all predictable. All the questions that are probably going to come up, including questions about the very agencies and the budget of the agencies they're supposed to be running, and somehow, yet they're totally unprepared. Now, of course, that Includes. And don't worry, I wasn't going to forget him. Former reality TV star and current Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. He has been overseeing the Transportation Department, of course, for more than 100 days. And yet all he can seem to muster is some bizarre blame he keeps repeating on the previous administration.

[Senator Cory Booker]

We're in this situation because the last administration didn't see to take initiative on the 3,000 controllers short that we were. The infrastructure didn't rot in the last 100 days. We didn't have 3,000 controller shortages in.

[Host]

The last hundred days. There was four years that came before.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Where nothing was done.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Okay, a couple of points here for Mr. Real World. First, the Biden administration actually passed the biggest infrastructure investment in American history. And while the number of air traffic controllers had been declining for over a decade, the Biden administration actually managed to reverse that trend and increase the number of air traffic controllers. You can see on the chart right there. It's also worth noting that since Trump took office, they've actually done a lot of work in this area. Don't be so modest, guys. They have a lot to talk about. I mean, they pushed out the head of the FAA after he pushed back on Elon Musk, fired the vice chair of the National Transportation Safety Board, gutted a key aviation safety committee. All of those things. Don't ask Secretary Duffy about any of that. He's only been on the job for 114 freaking days. Maybe at day 50 he'll really hit his stride. Guess we'll see. While he doesn't know what's going on at his agency, he sure did know enough to change his own wife's recent flight itinerary so that she wouldn't fly into the glitch plagued Newark International Airport. Something he admitted publicly. But guys, the whole point here is it's the same story at every one of these hearings. It doesn't matter which party is asking the questions. Just look what happened when a MAGA member of Congress tried to lob Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem a softball about whether she agrees with the White House's harebrained idea to suspend due process for immigrants.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Are you open and supportive of this.

[Host]

Constitutional option to suspend the writ of.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Habeas corpus to keep Americans safe and.

[Host]

Carry out the President's agenda.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Well, this is something that's not in my purview to weigh in on. This is the President's prerogative to pursue, and he has not indicated to me that he will or will not be taking that action. I mean, Congressman Crane's not trying to stick it to Kristi Noem, but her response was, basically, the White House wants to do what now? Nope, nope, that's not in my purview. Next question. But perhaps the most telling moment in all of these hearings was when Secretary Nom literally had to avert her eyes in order to retain her blissful ignorance. Little backstory here which you likely remember. But in an attempt to do some damage control, the Trump administration released this photo you can see on the screen of Kilmar Abrega Garcia's hand tattoos, which they claim are secret code that show he's a member of the gang Ms. 13. Experts have cast doubt on those claims, of course, but the photo released by the Trump administration literally has superimposed little labels over each tattoo that's spelled out. And Ms. 13, it's quite apparent. You can see it on the screen. And Trump insisted those little labels on that doctored photo were actual tattoos, which of course is not true. But instead of answering a direct question about that, Secretary Noem took great and I mean great pains today to deny the reality we can all see with our very own eyes.

[Host]

Is this doctored or is it not doctored?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I am taken quite seriously because is.

[Host]

It doctored or not doctored?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

The importance that the President has given.

[Host]

I understand. Is it doctored or not doctored?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

The thing that's important to remember is that every single time a case is built.

[Host]

Madam Secretary, I have a 7 year old, a 6 year old, and a 3 year old. I have a bull detector. I'm just asking you, is this doctored or not doctored?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Sir, the protocols in the case built against. Can you answer the question were exactly the same. Madam Secretary, I don't have any knowledge as to that photo you're pointing to.

[Host]

Okay. Can you take the photo? My question is the numbers and the letter Ms. 13. Could you look at the photo, please? It's right in front of me.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Are you saying Abrego Garcia is not away from here?

[Host]

No, no, ma.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

That he's not a criminal.

[Host]

It's so telling that you won't look.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

At the photo and we will not be bringing.

[Host]

Was it doctored or not?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

If in staying here, can you look.

[Host]

To your right at the photo in front of me? Madam Secretary, can you look to the right at the photo in front of you? Are those doctored or not? Is that. Is that actually on his hand or not?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

This is unbelievable to me that you're focused.

[Host]

It's unbelievable to me that you can't look at the photo and tell the.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

American people, the photo. But I don't have any knowledge as to this photo. I don't have any knowledge of the photo, really. It's literally. I mean, it was like here, it was like feet away from her face. She had to avert her eyes not to look at the photo. No one in the Trump administration seems to know what's going on these days. Or at least they've decided that blissful ignorance is preferable to answering the actual questions. But here's the thing. The American people know what's going on. They've shown that in protests after every day of the week, in every corner of the country. And. And they've shown it to us. Poll after poll after poll. A recent CNN poll found that voters support trying to bring Kilmar Obrega Garcia back to the US by a 36 point margin. A Reuters Ipsos poll just out today finds that Americans disapprove of Trump and RFK Jr. S handling of the measles outbreak by a 9 point margin. And a Kaiser Family foundation poll from last month found that Americans opposed cuts to Medicaid by a whopping 52 point margin. So, yeah, the Trump administration may not know what they are doing or pretend they don't know what's going on, but everyday Americans sure as hell do. Senator Jon Ossoff, who is up for reelection next year in a swing state, joins me here live. In just 90 seconds.

[Host]

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

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[Senator Cory Booker]

Thank you.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I just wanted to start. Sometimes there's so many things going on in a given day it feels like whack a mole. But it's still important to talk about what is not normal. You have been in your fair share of hearings. You have questioned Cabinet members in your fair share of hearings. I just started the show talking about how there was a lot of non answers, resistance to answering, lack of information. What did you make of today's hearings and the approach by the Trump administration to them?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, they're not only lacking candor when they engage with Congress, they're lacking candor when they engage with the courts. And I have found an extraordinary level of stonewalling. Basic information that I've sought from the administration has been denied. They clearly have no commitment to transparency. And it's deeply distressing when we're trying to do our jobs, conducting oversight, investigating wrongdoing on behalf of the American people. And there's such open contempt for the.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

United States Congress and the American people, I'd add. You see protests and resistance to all of this across the country. Corruption is an ongoing story. You've been talking about this a fair amount in your past life. I know you oversaw or ran out in investigative journalism, a company that did investigative journalism. And today, House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about any concerns he may have about Trump and his family's financial ties to a number of countries he's now visiting, which I think to most of us is pretty startling. I want to play what he said today and get your thoughts on it.

[Senator Cory Booker]

You are very critical of President Biden and his family's foreign business dealings. You supported an impeachment inquiry as a result of it.

[Host]

Are you equally concerned about President Trump's.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Family'S business dealings, especially given the fact that he is in a region now where his family has billions of dollars of investments in Doha and Saudi Arabia. And the fact that he has a crypto business now where he's auctioned off access to the White House for the highest bidder in his meme coin.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Look, there are authorities that police, executive branch ethics rules. I'm not an expert in that. My expertise is here in the House. Okay. I will say that our.

[Senator Cory Booker]

The reason many people refer to the.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Bidens as the Biden crime family is.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Because they were doing all this stuff behind curtains.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Whatever President Trump is doing is out in the open. They're not. He seems to be going to great pains not to call out things that are obviously corrupt. But what did you make of that?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Of course, because they're all living in fear of retaliation from the White House. But we do have to just step back and acknowledge that the depth of corruption and self dealing and self enrichment by the Trump family during this term is something that we have never, ever seen in the United States. At no point in our republic have we seen anything like this. I mean, you had Jared Kushner took billions of dollars from the Saudis. You've got the President's family going out ahead of his official visits, doing business across the region. You've got the meme coin where foreigners are directly enriching the President and his family and his businesses. And some of them are being quite open. Some of the folks buying this coin are being quite open that they're doing it in order to curry favor or to gain influence. And the President is selling private dinners and White House tours to people who invest in his family businesses. Not to mention the airplane, which is maybe the most extraordinary single obvious constitutional violation in presidential history, it is really mind blowing. And for the speaker to say that when it is the explicit role of the United States Congress to investigate and oversee misconduct by the executive branch, when we have all sworn an oath to that Constitution which defines that separation of powers and that role for the United States Congress, demonstrates that there is no red line. There is no new depth that this administration can plumb that will get these folks to give a damn. They are absolutely committed to defending and covering up for this president and this administration, no matter what.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

You also sit on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and there's a lot going on that I don't think always gets enough attention, because last week, we saw a declassified memo from US Intelligence that directly contradicted the Trump administration's reasoning for invoking the Alien Enemies act in order to, of course, deport alleged Venezuelan gang members. And then today we learn that Trump's DNI chief fired the leaders of the intelligence group that wrote that assessment. What do you make of punishing officials like that and all of that behavior?

[Senator Cory Booker]

And by the way, leaked the alleged justification for the firing to Fox News, but did not notify the intelligence committees in the House or Senate, not at all, where they have a statutory obligation to notify us. You know, and this raises the obvious concern that senior intelligence analysts may face retaliation for issuing good faith analysis. That's their job, to call balls and strikes, to take the available intelligence that's been collected and render the very best, most objective analysis possible, that they may face retaliation where their analysis, their findings are not helpful to the administration's policy objectives or perhaps reveal false statements that the administration has made in court. And if that is what's happening here, and there's a lot of reason to suspect it is, that chills intelligence analysis throughout the entire intelligence community, which then deprives policymakers of access to accurate information. That's how mistakes are made. That's how our country can make serious geopolitical and national security mistakes when the intelligence products we're receiving are not down the middle, but instead crafted to curry favor with the administration. The last thing I'd say on this is Tulsi Gabbard, when she came before us testifying to take the job as director of National Intelligence, her whole thing was depoliticizing the intelligence community. And if she's done this to punish analysis that she or the president didn't like, well, you can rest assured that we on the intelligence community are going to put very tough questions to her under oath about this.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Well, I look forward to seeing you do exactly that. There are a lot of good ones to ask. I have to ask you about your race, of course, before I let you go. You've, of course, run close races before during the Trump administration. You've won, you're doing a lot of fundraising, you've raised a lot of money, you're doing a lot of organizing. What is different this time? What are you hearing from voters in terms of what is exciting them, angering them? And what are you seeing on the ground?

[Senator Cory Booker]

Well, the more it becomes clear to the people of Georgia exactly what this legislative agenda is, where half of all births in my state are covered by Medicaid, 70% of seniors in nursing homes in Georgia are covered by Medicaid, 40% of all kids are covered by Medicaid. The more deeply unpopular it becomes. And so there is tremendous anger and fear, not just among Democrats, but also among independents. And Republicans across the state that this is the agenda. We've already lost so many hospitals in recent years. So many are struggling with their health. But I will be the number one target for MAGA and national Republicans because, as you mentioned, I'm the only Democrat running in a state that Donald Trump won. They will probably spend something like half a billion dollars to try to defeat me. And so since you brought it up, I'd be remiss if I didn't remind your viewers that if they want to support my efforts in Georgia and help power us to a landslide victory in 2026, they can do [e-mail] or electjon.com.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

That was very smooth. We covered a lot of things. Senator Jon Ossoff, thank you so much for joining me. Really.

[Senator Cory Booker]

Pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Coming up, we're going to have to take a quick break, but when we come back, Senator Cory Booker and some of his colleagues took it upon themselves to literally march personal stories. You can see them in the video right there. From constituents who rely on Medicaid into the Congressional Record. We were just talking about the impact of Medicaid cuts. People are feeling it across the country. He's standing by. He's going to join me live here at the table when we come right back.

[Host]

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. Gold belly ship, Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garden's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT. That's goldbelly.com, promo code GIFT. Okay, you probably remember this moment as well as I do. Arizona Senator John McCain putting his thumb down, saving the Affordable care Act in 2017. Now, we tend to think about it as one iconic moment, just that moment where he went and put his thumb down. But the backstory is pretty incredible. I mean, Republicans had control of the House, the Senate, and the White House at the time. For years, Republicans had been obsessed with killing the Affordable Care Act. Obsessed. But even with full control of the government, they couldn't get it done. We now find ourselves in a very similar spot. Republicans have control of the House, the Senate, and the White House. Their new budget proposal would mean millions of Americans could lose their health care. We've been here before, so it's worth remembering how that thumbs down moment came to be. Now, the original argument around the benefits of the Affordable Care act was basically all about math. A big part of the messaging was that the bill would bend the cost curve. Doesn't that roll off your tongue? We had many, many graphs and charts that showed how much money the bill would save. The enormous bill the Americans on health care. Now, the bill passed while Democrats had control of Congress and the White House. But that messaging, messaging about the numbers around a huge bill didn't totally work. Republicans like Sayak Parallelin told lies about how the bill would create what the Tea Party called death panels and crafted a narrative of bureaucrats, not doctors, making decisions about the health care of the American people. And it turned out those narratives were a lot more effective than all of us with our charts talking about bending the cost curve. No surprise, Republicans used those narratives to win back the House. And then the House and the Senate. And then the House, the Senate, and the White house. So in 2017, they had their moment. They had full control of the US Government and were in a position to finally kill the aca. But by that point, the ACA was no longer just numbers and hypotheticals. People who relied on the ACA protested in Congress day after day after day. Disabled Americans, elderly Americans, moms, families, all physically showing up to Congress Day after day to tell Republicans they were hurting even without control of any of the branches of government. Democrats and thousands of everyday Americans told stories about how the ACA meant mothers around the country received better levels of prenatal care. About how parents could keep their children on their health care plans until they were 26 years old. About how insurance companies couldn't deny care to people with pre existing conditions. They told those stories by the millions all around the country. And ultimately, against what seemed like impossible odds at the time, John McCain put his thumb down. Now today, Republicans are once again in control of everything, all branches of government. I know John McCain isn't around anymore, but this fight is not over until it's over. Fights like this can be won no matter who controls Congress and the American people still need health care. And their stories are still powerful.

[Host]

Devon Newton's son suffers from a rare spinal disorder, one that would make it incredibly difficult for his son to ever walk. It's why Newton spoke out Tuesday afternoon with a group of protesters at Kern Medical advocating against cuts to Medicaid.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

One of my husband's medications, he's on seven one is $1,600 a month. We would have to choose between feeding my family family or my husband backsliding and starting to have seizures and memory loss again.

[Host]

As a person with diabetes and has gone through a couple strokes in my lifetime and high blood pressure, I depend on Medi cal to support this, to have a quality life in my community.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

All around the country we have seen people protesting against cut to Medicaid, cuts to Medicaid. Doctors, patients, parents, all showing that this issue matters personally to them. And yesterday in D.C. we saw yet again more activists, many of them disabled, showing up in person to put a face to cuts Republicans are proposing. More than two dozen of them were arrested and one protester while being escorted out of the room by police yesterday, reportedly shouting, you will kill me. People of this country are once again making this personal. The latest report from the Congressional Budget Office does show that the Republican bill would make more than 7.5 million people uninsured. A lot of Democrats are pointing to that number right now. And I get it. Who doesn't love a good CBO score after all? But the way to effectively message here, the way to move people where it matters, is not actually the data. It's with people. Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey has been asking people from around the country to share their stories with him, to tell him why Medicaid matters to them. And Senator Cory Booker joins me here at the table when we come back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Cory Booker of the great state of New Jersey. Thank you, Senator, for being here.

[Host]

It's great to be here, especially to have this discussion.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

There is so much going on right now, a lot you're involved in. So I'm gonna get through as much as we can. I wanna start with, I just talked a little bit about the power of personal stories and people's stories and how in my view, it's much more powerful than data. Data is important too. We're all nerds here.

[Host]

Right?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

But tell me a little bit more about how you decided to ask for these Medicaid stories. How many you got, what surprised you about what you saw in the stories?

[Host]

So we made a decision in my office that we win this by dispelling the worst type of poverty. Poverty of empathy. If more people, Americans are good folks. If more people know the stories of the people that are being affected, that's what why 25 hours on the floor. We centered stories. Sitting with Hakeem Jeffries on the steps for 12 hours at the Capitol of the protest. We told stories and we have been inviting the whole time for people to send them in. And they're gut wrenching. And when you read them and you hear about people who are barely holding on the delicate lattice of their economic well being, you pull a string of Medicaid out funding, even if it's just a transportation program, things fall apart, families unravel, they can't get to work, they can't get their medication. And so those stories I think are what is we need to elevate now. Not the voices of politicians, the voices of the people that are being affected.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

It's incredibly powerful. And one of the things, and we were just talking about this before we came on air, that's challenging about moments like this. It is hard to defeat bad policies when you're in the minority. It takes a lot of work. It's possible it happened with the ACA in efforts to to get rid of the aca, but there was Democrats lost on a party line vote today. Yes, it happens.

[Host]

Yes.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What does a win look like right now?

[Host]

So I would love to tell people that it was my eloquence that somehow convinced John McCain to vote against the repealing of the Affordable Care Act. But it was not. It was the American people. And a movement grew up. I actually saw an amazing graph of just the views America's had of the Affordable Care act because all the protests and all the discussion started to educate people to understand what this was and what it meant to Americans. And you saw the public switch, and suddenly the empathy grew, the understanding grew, and the resistance grew. And so John McCain, who had protestors from his state, hospital administrators from his state, people in the medical profession from his state demanding that he not do this, finally overcame any kind of opposition that he had, and he voted no. And so right now, we are in this weird tension. And I always remind people of Jefferson's great quote, when the people fear their government, there's tyranny. When the government fears the people, there's liberty. Right now, there are a whole bunch of Republicans who are fearing Donald Trump more than they're fearing their constituencies. They need to hear from the people in their constituencies, because left or right, people support Medicaid, people support food stamps, people support all the things they're going after in cutting. We need to make them hear us and be more afraid of going against the people than they are right now afraid of going against Donald Trump.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

That is how politics works, essentially, as you just described it. They're representing the people. And if people share their voices, things can change. There's a lot going on in New Jersey, I think I can say pretty simply, and Newark is, of course, a city. I think I first got, or got to, to know who you were when you were scooping snow out of people's driveways and doing it on social media. I want to start with the airport, because just a couple of hours ago, I think this hit my inbox literally after 7pm you and your New Jersey colleagues sent a letter to the House and Senate Appropriations committee asking for $2 billion in emergency funds to fix the infrastructure that's partially causing the Newark airport crisis. A lot of people have been paying attention to this. This should be something that's of part bipartisan. I know this just happened, but your staff, I'm sure, is working the phones around the clock. What sense do you have of whether you need Republicans to get this funding, of whether there's an openness to that and getting this passed in short order, which is needed?

[Host]

Yeah. Three things have caused this crisis really quick. One is the administration come in and start firing everybody fired key officials in the faa, fired folks at a time that we were having staffing shortages that was just plain dumb and hurt the operations. Number two, it was a shortage of air traffic controllers, which is part of that personnel story that we have too tight of a flow. We need to get more people on the job, and that's been hurting it. But the main thing, number three is we are dealing with archaic technology that needs to be replaced. And Newark was especially vulnerable because when they moved the air traffic controllers they ran an old school, almost like an extension cord down there that created more of vulnerabilities and without having redundancies and the kind of technology we need, like fiber optics, dealing with these copper cables, all of that was set up for disaster that needs to be fixed. And it's not a problem just of Newark, by the way. We're particularly vulnerable, but throughout the whole system. And so I've been doing everything to address all of those problems from talking directly with the Secretary of Transportation to talking to air traffic controllers, getting their input about how do we solve this problem of the shortages. One of the key things though is you can't fix a problem unless you put the resources into it that are necessary to upgrade the systems. So we have an emergency appropriation and I'm asking Republicans to step forward and understand this. Today might be in Newark, but tomorrow might be in a red state. And this is a crisis the United.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

States of America should not have clearly asking for emergency. It is a crisis happening at Newark Airport. Do you, your constituents, I'm sure, are calling your office all the time. Is this safe to fly? Would the senator fly? Would you fly out of Newark Airport?

[Host]

I'm going to fly in the next week out of Newark. It's my home. I live a mile or two from the airport. That's how close I am. I have spent six years longer than that bringing hundreds of millions of dollars to improve that airport. Anybody who's going through terminal A, I hope you've seen some of the resources we've brought. This is a moment. It is a premier airport in the busiest, most congested air space in our nation. It is. 20% of our nation's economy relies on the transportation structure there. We need to fix this and be a first class country not having these kind of developing nation problems. It's unacceptable. And the buck stops with this administration. Stop making things worse with your senseless layoffs, with undermining public safety by getting rid of safety officials. Stop blaming it on DEI like we heard after that plane crash. This is about stepping up, taking responsibility and fixing the problems. And I'm going to give you all the bipartisan support you need, but fix it.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

You're telling me it wasn't the last administration? As we heard from the Secretary of Transportation today, we're going to take a very quick.

[Host]

Leaders don't pass the buck. You know that as well as that.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

114 days.

[Host]

Come on. Yes, they're passing the ball.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I want to talk to you about another plane in the sky. You know the one I'm talking about. We'll talk about it when we come back and take a quick break. Back with me now is Senator Cory Booker. As I mentioned before the break, there's a lot going on in just Newark, a city that is so close to your heart. And it was just a couple of days ago, last Friday, when the mayor of Newark was arrested, put in a facility for several hours. There were three members of Congress who were there also. Yes. First of all, what was going through your head when you were watching that?

[Host]

I mean, utter outrage. I was in his position. And so that institution, which is a private company for profit prison, occupied that after it had been vacant for 10 to 20 years without getting fire code approvals, without getting a certificate of iron occupancy, without health inspectors visiting. And they were in court with the city and they still chose to belie the court processes and occupy that and put human beings in there with no inspections whatsoever. So Raz Baraka had been going time and time again and then on a visit with protesters out there, he didn't bring the protesters. They started chanting, let him in. So they invited him in. He goes on the inside and they come out and said, you need to leave, you're trespassing. So he left. Then they come out after him on city property and arrest a sitting mayor in his own city. It's really outrageous.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

It's completely outrageous. And now this week, I mean, Congressman Carter, I'm just going to note, is a member from Georgia, not even from New Jersey, although he's running for Senate, he proposed trying to strip these three New Jersey Democrats from their committees.

[Host]

Right.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What do you make of that?

[Host]

I mean, this is, first of all, it's outrageous. And by the way, this is in the context of arresting, arresting a federal judge, of violating a Supreme Court, 90 order, attacks on due process, disappearing human beings. This is all part of this equation. Those Congress people, that's ridiculous. They showed up there, they were brought in, they were put into a room, told they were going to get a tour. They came out when they saw all these massive people running out to arrest the mayor. Then they were invited back in and given the tour. So again, this idea that somehow they bum rushed this area or did something that's outrageous. And then number two is again, this weaponizing the justice system in a way to intimidate and try to silence leaders, be they judges who they're threatening arrest of or congresspeople this is a trampling of the separation of powers. This is a president that does not want accountability, doesn't want checks and balances, doesn't want transparency. And to me, this is an erosion of our constitutional, not just norms, but our sacred ideals. And we should all be saying enough is enough. Stop the intimidation of judges, attacking judges when they rule in a way that you don't want to, with such language that you now see judges getting an uptick in threats on their lives, these pizzas that are being sent to them in the name of another federal judge's murdered son, Esther Solis's family. That's outrageous. And again, you have a article one branch of government, the legislature, you are doing things to intimidate them, threatening to have their arrest. So this is stuff that is outrageous. It's more indicative of an authoritarian nation, not a free democracy, where people have a right to have checks and balances, to have accountability for their president. And right now we have a Congress that is not only laying down, not holding any hearings for accountability, but also are complicit in the most corrupt administration that we've seen in generations. With what this president's doing, as we see in the Middle east right now with his meme coins and his crypto deals. And now the offering of this outrageous plane that you alluded to earlier, which is nothing more than a blatant in public eye bribe to a president. And a question asked is who is this president accountable to? The people of the United States of America or those people who are giving him millions and millions of dollars of gifts and inducements?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I started the show talking about how the plane is very much in our faces, but it's hard to know. I mean, he also has these meme coins. It's hard to know what the most, the sketchiest deal with a Middle Eastern country is happening right now. You do you have called for the Senate to vote to condemn Trump's plan to accept the plane. Have you had any? I mean, there's been a lot of Republicans who've spoken out about this, but I'm not a naive cat. Neither are you. Do you expect any of them to join you in condemning this?

[Host]

It has been over 110 days. As Trump walked in, he formed, created this meme coin, which in and of itself to me is an impeachable offense. To have a president that basically says anybody anywhere can dump money into my pocket that should have been a loan. But then he attacks all the people that could hold him accountable. Inspector generals after inspector general, in fact, the very agencies that are investigating Elon Musk, this most wealthy man in the world, unaccountable billionaire, he was now undermining their ability to investigate him. This administration from day one has been showing staggering levels of corruption. And in many ways this has been fueled by a Supreme Court that says, hey, you cannot, anything you do while you're president, we cannot hold you criminally liable for we are with a president that is being unchecked by the Supreme Court or by the Congress and now feels like he's unchecked whatsoever to fill his pockets and the pockets of his family out in broad daylight at things that no senator, no senator would ever justify this unless they were being intimidated by a president into silence.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I suspect we will have more to talk about this in the coming months. Senator Booker, thank you so much for joining me.

[Host]

Thank you very much.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Always love talking to you.

[Host]

Great to be here.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Appreciate it. We'll be right back after a quick break. For all the hand wringing inside the Democratic Party, they are winning a lot. I mean, Democrats flipped a Pennsylvania state Senate seat that Republicans held for more than four decades. Democrats in Wisconsin told Elon Musk to basically kick rocks, helping the liberal win a seat on the state Supreme Court. And just last night a Democrat kicked out the three term Republican mayor in Omaha. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram, Instagram and TikTok. For now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day nutrition program rejuvenates you at the cellular level with boxes labeled by day so you know exactly what to eat. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you [e-mail] PandoraProMo these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. Products are not intended to diagn, treat or prevent disease. See site for details.