Psaki: Action on America's gun problem is not hopeless

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Action on America's Gun Problem Is Not Hopeless
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC

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Overview

This episode tackles the latest tragic mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis. Jen Psaki explores the details of the attack, the community's response, and the broader issue of gun violence in America. The show features interviews with Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, Senator Tina Smith, and Dr. Georges Benjamin (Director of the American Public Health Association) to examine how action remains possible amid recurrent tragedies and the politicization of related issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Minneapolis School Shooting – Details and First-Hand Accounts

• Incident Recap:

  • On the first day back to school, a shooter fired through stained glass church windows, trapping staff and students inside (01:13).
  • Two children, an 8-year-old and a 10-year-old, were killed, and the shooter died by suicide. Seventeen others, including 14 children, were injured (05:48).
  • The shooter was able to buy multiple firearms legally.
  • Trauma lingers: All injured are expected to survive, but the community faces immense psychological scars (05:48).

• First-Hand Voices:

  • 10-year-old Weston Halsney described hiding under pews and being shielded by a friend who was shot:
    “We kind of like got under the pews... My friend Victor like saved me though, because he laid on top of me, but he got hit.” (04:05)
  • Senator Amy Klobuchar’s staff member’s daughter communicated the trauma of seeing friends shot:
    “Her daughter... had to watch several of her friends get shot. One in the back, one in the neck and they all got down under the pews.” (05:19)

• Community Response:

  • Vigils and services brought out overwhelming crowds (01:13, 32:38), highlighting collective grief and solidarity.

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2. The American Gun Crisis – Systemic Problems

• Host’s Analysis:

  • Jen Psaki underscores that the U.S. leads the world in gun violence and that mass shootings occur with an unmatched frequency.
    “This is the only country where shootings like this, this one, happen this often... It’s the guns, everyone. It’s not really a secret.” (07:23)
  • The show criticizes the pattern of “thoughts and prayers” and the use of the shooter’s identity (trans, political views) to distract from policy solutions (07:41).
  • Psaki argues for activism: “Anger can turn into activism... That pressure can change laws. It’s not hopeless at all.” (10:26)

• Historical Parallel:

  • The bipartisan Safer Communities Act (2022) after Buffalo and Uvalde proved legislative change is possible with enough public pressure (10:39).

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3. Interview: Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey

• Community Pain and Humanity:

  • Frey emphasizes compassion and urges everyone to view victims as “your own kids,” not someone else’s tragedy (16:41).
  • “Every parent should have the assurance and the confidence that they can kiss their kid goodbye... without the fear that they wouldn’t come home.” (16:41)
  • Regards teachers and law enforcement as heroes for their actions that saved lives.

• Demands for Action:

  • Blunt on the issue of firearms:
    “We have more guns in America than people. Say it again. We have more guns in America than people. Why?” (19:47)
  • Calls out the cycle of inaction:
    “This is not what anybody should expect or deal with in the first week of school... Words are not enough... We got to act.” (18:27)
  • On identity and scapegoating:
    “Anybody who is using this as an opportunity to villainize trans people has completely lost touch with a common humanity... The antidote to hate is not more hate. The antidote is love.” (22:58)

• Guidance for Citizens:

  • Frey acknowledges the powerlessness people feel, but insists on collective responsibility:
    “We can do a whole lot more than [thoughts and prayers]... Why are we okay with that? Collectively?... This is not about politics. This is about kids. This is about your kids.” (25:03)

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4. Interview: Senator Tina Smith (D-MN)

• Grief and Resilience:

  • “The depth of our grief is just unfathomable... everyone is trying to figure out both how to make sense of it and... how do we scrape ourselves up off the sidewalk and figure out where we go from here.” (31:34)
  • Notes the community’s strength shown in record turnout at the vigil.

• The Power of Hope and Action:

  • Smith frames hope as an act:
    “Hope is an action word... people who take these kinds of violent actions... want us to feel powerless... we do have power, that we do have autonomy, that we can change this.” (33:43)
  • Points to real impact from the Safer Communities Act (“lives were saved because of that... we have to use that as our momentum”) (34:29).

• On Policy and Political Contradictions:

  • Smith calls out widespread hypocrisy:
    “What Donald Trump is doing is using fear of crime... as a political cudgel. He’s using it to expand people’s fear rather than actually doing anything to keep people safer.” (36:18)
  • Highlights the rollback of violence prevention grants even as troops are deployed for other “crime emergencies” (36:18).

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5. Weaponization of Public Health & Breaking News

• CDC Leadership Purge:

  • CDC Director Susan Menarez was forced out after resisting pressure to change vaccine policy per RFK Jr. and the Trump White House (37:50-41:49).
  • Dr. Georges Benjamin explains, “He has created a toxic work environment... bringing on board a highly competent expert... decides he wants to fire her.” (41:50)

• Public Health Implications:

  • The loss of leadership at the CDC undermines trust and efficacy:
    • “Public health works on trust. And the minute you break that trust, you lose the public.” (42:58)
    • “You’re pushing out some of the world's top experts in disease... What this means is... we can't assure you the air will be safe to breathe, the water safe to drink, or food safe to eat.” (43:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Senator Tina Smith quoting an African proverb:
  “When you pray, pray with your feet. Faith is about taking action to get the kind of community you want.” (34:53)

• Mayor Jacob Frey’s urgent plea for empathy:
  “Don’t think about these as just somebody else’s kids. Think about them as if they were your own.” (19:47)

• Jen Psaki on U.S. gun violence:
  “We live in a country with more guns than people... It’s the guns, everyone. It’s not really a secret.” (07:23)

• Direct voice from a 10-year-old survivor:
  “My friend Victor like saved me though, because he laid on top of me, but he got hit.” – Weston Halsney (04:25)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:13 – 05:48: The attack recounted; voices from child survivor and families.
• 07:23 – 13:22: Psaki’s monologue on gun violence, legislative action, and cycles of inaction.
• 16:41 – 27:17: Extended interview with Mayor Jacob Frey, including perspectives on empathy, blame, and action.
• 31:34 – 37:48: Senator Tina Smith reflects on grief, hope, policy, and political hypocrisy.
• 37:50 – 45:08: Breaking news on the CDC director’s firing and expert reactions with Dr. Benjamin.

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is empathetic, urgent, and at times raw with emotion from both hosts and guests. There’s a repeated call for moving from despair and “thoughts and prayers” to meaningful, collective action. The show maintains clear, accessible language but doesn’t shy from moral outrage or political critique.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki provides a powerful account of the aftermath of yet another mass shooting, focusing both on the immediate suffering and the need for systemic change. Guests reinforce the theme that hope and progress depend on action — from citizens, lawmakers, and leaders. The episode also shifts to the politicization of public health, warning of the risks of undermining institutions at a time of repeated national crisis.

Listeners gain a sobering but motivating picture: the tragedy is not just a repeating news cycle, but a challenge that can — and must — be met with empathy and resolve.

Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now. Wherever you get your podcasts, Sometimes an.

[News Anchor / Host]

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[News Anchor / Host]

It's been a very difficult day I think, for everybody watching for me too. We are bringing to you right now the scene inside the Academy of Holy Angels High School gym in Minneapolis, Minnesota, where the community has shown up in droves to mourn. They had to add seats in the community. They had to. This was around an event that happened just. And they're there to honor the lives of the two children tragically killed, as well as the many injured in today's horrific mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic School. This is one of several prayer vigils and services that are taking place across the Twin Cities tonight as the whole state comes together to grieve this senseless loss. Now, Monday, and I know many people watching, maybe their kids, maybe your grandkids, have experienced this this week. Monday was the first day back at school for the children at Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis, Minnesot. So today at 8:15 this morning, all of the school students filled the pews of the school's church for the first Mass of the year, something that is very much a tradition at Catholic schools and certainly this one. Just before 8:30, the first 911 calls started coming in. A shooter had begun firing into the church from outside of the building, firing through the church's stained glass windows. Police say the doors of the church appear to have been barricaded by from the outside with two by four wood planks trapping everyone inside. Accounts have varied on whether the gunfire lasted 45 seconds or two minutes. And there's a lot of things that we are still learning. But all of the reports describe steady gunfire consistent with a semiautomatic weapon. As one parent who was sitting in the back of the church at the time told the Minnesota Star Tribune, the shooter just pepper sprayed through the stained glass windows into the building. 50 to 100 shots. Without anywhere to run, nowhere to go, the children and adults inside the church ducked under their pews. That's what they were forced to do. A 25 year old youth minister told the New York Times today that she was just feet away from the window and that she believes that the pew in the church actually saved her life. And she put it this way, there was a hole and the bullets come in ricocheting off of stuff. Kids were shot. It was horrifying. A mother of an eighth grader who was in the church at the same time said that her son thought it was fireworks or a gas explosion until he started to see people falling. The grandmother of another child in the church said her grandson described the scene as boom, boom, boom. She said that a girl next to him got hit in the head, he saw flesh fly and he himself was shot in the stomach. A fifth grade boy named Weston Halsney spoke to the press directly and here's how he described what he saw today.

[Senator Tina Smith]

How old are you?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

I'm 10.

[Commercial Narrator]

What grade are you in?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

I'm in 5th.

[News Anchor / Host]

Can you talk a little bit about.

[Commercial Narrator]

What you saw today?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

Well, it was like shots fired and then we kind of like got under the pews. It kind of. They shot through the stained glass windows, I think, and it was really scary.

[News Anchor / Host]

When you heard the shots, what went through your head? Head?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

I was like the first one, I was like, what is that? I thought it was just something. Then I heard it again. I just ran under the pew and then I covered my head. My friend Victor like saved me though, because he laid on top of me, but he got hit.

[Senator Tina Smith]

Your friend laid on top of you?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

Yeah, and he got hit.

[Dr. Georges Benjamin]

Is this something that you practiced before?

[Weston Halsney (5th grade student)]

Yeah, we practice it like every month or. I don't know, but yeah, we've never practiced it in, in the church though, only in school. So it was way different.

[News Anchor / Host]

That was a 10 year old. That was a 10 year old kid and his experience today at school. The daughter of a longtime staff member of Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar was also inside the church today and here's how Senator Klobuchar described what she heard about that experience.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

Her daughter who's seventh grade was in that church. These kids are doing the all school mass and had to watch several of her friends get shot. One in the back, one in the neck and they all got down under the pews. Her daughter ended up being the one telling one of the dads of one of the other kids that his daughter had been shot.

[News Anchor / Host]

Two kids who left for school this morning looking forward to what? Kids look forward to a day with friends and maybe some time in math class. Maybe they're not looking forward to that. Some time on the playground were killed an 8 year old and a 10 year old and the shooter also died of a self inflicted gunshot wound on the scene. Seventeen others were injured. Fourteen of them are children between the ages of six and 15. The other three were all parishioners in their 80s. The injured were rushed to Hennepin County Medical center and seven of the children were brought in as critical patients. Four required an operation. A bystander in the emergency room described the scene to the New York Times today saying this the hospital staff rushed to move patients out of rooms and into hallways to make room for the victims of the shooting. She said she heard one child who was being brought into the ER screaming that she didn't want to die. Thankfully all of the injured are expected to survive, although they will have many years of trauma from this experience. Some have even been discharged, started to get discharged which is certainly a bit of good news and a horrific day that was at the hospital. Back at the school, parents spent a little over an hour this morning experiencing the gut wrenching agony of not knowing if their children were okay. At around you can see some pictures of them there being reunited. At around 10am parents were reunited with their children. The kids had been locked down for safety in the school's basement gymnasium since the since earlier in the morning neighbors described seeing kids walk out with blood down the shirts of their green and blue school uniforms. Some kids were weren't even wearing shoes. One of the editors of the Minnesota Star Tribune is a parent at the school and was among the parents at the reunification point. She said that many of the students were crying, others were silent and looked terrified. Her own daughter told her that the church is ruined and that she is scared to go back. I have been thinking as I'm Sure. Everybody who has consumed this today about has been doing as well. About my kids who happen to be about the same ages as the two who were killed, about sending them off to school this morning. I've been thinking about their friends and their teachers, about all the parents, about all the grandparents out there navigating the return to school. And all they should be hoping to do is have someone to sit with at lunch or someone to play with on the playground. And they should be waiting to hear an update when they get home. And that is not what these parents at this school experience today. Sorry. This is a tough one. Having your child killed while they are sitting in a pew for a morning prayer service is not what any parent should have to worry about. And I have felt a mixture of anger and a lot of anger and emotional exhaustion about this today, as I'm sure many of you have, because we have been here so many times. So many times. And yet again, like clockwork, half the politicians in our country have little more to offer than thoughts and prayers. That is all they are offering. Join us all. Join all of us in praying for the victims was Vice President J.D. vance's response today. That's what he said. That's it. Please join me in praying for everyone involved. Trump wrote, we have seen this play out over and over again. There is a shooting, then come the thoughts and prayers, and then comes the attempt to shift the focus. This is what always happens. You're going to start seeing narratives. You're already seeing them. They're already out there about how the shooter was trans. You're going to see narratives about how the shooter appeared to be anti Trump and anti Semitic and clearly was in the midst of a mental health crisis. There's no question about that. But here's the thing. There are trans people all over the world. There are anti Semitic people, unfortunately, all over the world, and people filled with plenty of political hate all over the world. And mental health issues are not unique to the United States. And yes, we should do more to address them, but it's also an issue all over the world. But this is the only country where shootings like this, this one, happen this often. The United States not only has the highest rate of gun violence of any country in the world, it's become a leading cause of death for young people and teenagers in this country. That should make everybody angry. Weaponizing the shooter's identity is meant to distract from what matters. That is what they are doing, trying to distract from what matters. Here's what matters. Today's shooter bought the what? Rifle, handgun and shotgun. They used to do what they did today. Legally, we live in a country with more guns than people, where there are not universal background checks, there are not bans on assault weapons, and it is far too easy to buy a gun. It's the guns, everyone. It's not really a secret. There are a lot of things to feel outraged about right now. And I try, I really try hard not to be a constant driver of rip your hair out outrage here. But I hope this is something that you feel moved to do something about. It's not just about today. And today was an absolute tragedy. This is a never ending cycle that doesn't seem to stop. But here's the thing. Anger can turn into activism. I know this from my years working in politics. Activism can turn into pressure on elected officials. And that pressure can change laws. It's not hopeless at all. As much as this is upsetting to me and I'm sure many of you, it is possible. I mean, just look to the events of three years ago on May 14, 2022, and I know we all remember this quite well, and probably it sat with us in the same way. A white supremacist committed a mass shooting at a supermarket in a predominantly black neighborhood in Buffalo, New York. Ten people were killed and three were injured. Ten days later, on May 24, 2022, a gunman killed 19 children and two teachers at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. And I think a lot of us remember where we were when we heard that news. There were plenty of thoughts and prayers and diversions then, too. That's what they did then, too. There was a whole discourse about, quote, hardening the doors. Do you remember that? As if doors were the reason we kept having mass shootings. It's not about the doors, but the people of Buffalo and Uvalde and the rest of the United States did not let politicians get away with it. Weeks after those shootings, parents and family members of victims made the trek to D.C. to lobby Congress in person. They testified before both the House and the Senate, demanding Congress actually do something about guns in this country. The mother of one Buffalo shooting victim told Congress, if after hearing from me and the other people testifying here today does not move you to act on gun laws, I invite you to my home to help me to clean Zaire's wounds so that you may see up close the damage that has been caused to my son and my community. That's what she said. A few weeks after that, Congress passed a bill. It was called. There was A journey there to get to the bill, but it was called the bipartisan Safer Communities Act. And the bill expanded the background check system for gun buyers under the age of 21. It toughened laws against trafficking guns and the practice of having someone buy a gun for someone else, also known as straw purchasing. It set aside funding for state law enforcement to be able to actually enforce red flag laws. It closed what was known as the boyfriend loophole, expanding the ban that kept domestic abusers from buying firearms to recent dating partners rather than just spouses. Of course, that should have been the law. It wasn't perfect, this bill. It wasn't. It wasn't everything Democrats wanted, but it was something. And on June 25th of 2022, President Biden signed that bill into law. It was just 42 days after the mass shooting in Buffalo. Lawmakers in this country were actually able to do something about our nation's gun problem for the first time in several decades. Now, clearly, our nation's gun laws are not enough. But that means that if politicians actually want to do something to stop these shootings, there is a lot left for them to do. But thoughts and prayers alone are not going to cut it.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers. Right now. These kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church. These are kids that should be learning with their friends. They should be playing on the playground. They should be able to go to school or church in peace without the fear or risk of violence. And their parents should have the same kind of assurance. These are the sort of basic assurances that every family should have every step of the day, regardless of where they are in our country.

[News Anchor / Host]

That was Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry expressing his outrage at what happened in his city this morning. Well deserved outrage, and how thoughts and prayers alone just aren't the answer right now. Minneapolis Mayor Fry joins me just to discuss all of it in just 90 seconds.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa, and have you been listening to my podcast? We are knee deep in season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw. It's honest. And best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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[News Anchor / Host]

You'Ll love to use. Joining me now is Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry. Mayor Fry, thank you so much for taking the time this evening. I know this has been an incredibly difficult day and many of us nowhere near Minneapolis are reeling, have been reeling. I have been personally reeling all day from what we've seen and what we've heard. Let me start by asking you, I know you've been spending a lot of times with the victims families today and people who've been impacting the community. How are you doing and how is your community doing this evening?

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

Look, we've all got our professional titles in life, but the title that means the most to me is husband and dad. And I know I'm not unique. We should be thinking about these victims not just as somebody else's kids, but think of them as if they were your own. How would you feel? What would you be going through? Every parent should have the assurance and the confidence that they can kiss their kid goodbye, put on their headband, shove them some applesauce, and leave for school or church or daycare without the fear that they wouldn't come home. And the fact that these families are going through so much is horrific. I know that there is an entire Minneapolis family that is behind them. They're standing up, they're wrapping their arms around them. And whether it's the teachers or the faculty at Annunciation that quite literally were heroes and they saved lives by the actions they took. Or it was our police and our law enforcement that ran towards the danger when the rest of us would have probably run in the other direction. There are incredible people that are standing up for these families that are in, yeah, their worst moments of their entire lives.

[News Anchor / Host]

I think you have to be missing an empathy connection, not to feel connected to the human beings. I have kids who are 7 and 10. My mother in law is a retired Catholic school teacher. I've been thinking about these teachers and administrators and these kids who saw this today and experienced it. How is the community around the school doing? What are they sharing with you in the time you've spent with them today?

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

They're horrified. I mean, these kids should be able to go to school and learn math together and play outside at recess and laugh and mess around and maybe even get in a little bit of trouble at the cafeteria. This is not what anybody should expect or deal with in the first week of school. And of course, thoughts and prayers. Fine, great. Yeah, I believe in prayer. These kids were literally praying though. And so we have to do a whole hell of a lot more than that right now. Words are not enough. I mean, how many times have you talked to mayors and probably politicians from around the country who have talked about an unspeakable tragic event and this kind of thing should never happen again? I've probably said it myself today. That's not good enough. It can't happen again. We got to act so that it won't happen again. And yet it does.

[News Anchor / Host]

What does that look like? I mean, you know, well, obviously from being a mayor for some time in Minneapolis, that there are gun laws in Minneapolis, in Minnesota that other states don't have, but there are some things that could still be done. Is that something that you hope people in the legislature have a will to do at this point in time?

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

We have more guns in America than people. Say it again. We have more guns in America than people. Why? Why is it so easy to get a gun? Why is it so easy to get a whole heap ton of guns? Why is it that you can buy a gun virtually every month if you wanted to? What good is that? We're not talking about your father's hunting rifle. We're talking about people that have gotten guns at it, seemingly, in this case, legally, that obviously have a whole ton of mental health issues. You're not right in the head. If you're going to a church to shoot it up, you're not right in the head. But the fact that you have guns, in fact, many, many guns. Why is that? Okay, you know, this has gone down in other countries and they say, you know what, we're not gonna allow this anymore. We're not, we don't want this to happen anymore. We're going to do something about it. It's got to be out of love for our kids, a common kind of humanity that you understand how deeply I love my little girls. I've got a almost five year old, four and three quarters, she'd tell you. And I've got a three week old. And I many times today have thought about the last things that I have said to her before she went into school. And you know, you shove these things off as, you know, maybe even an annoyance, get out the door, put on your shoes, let's go. Here's your headband. Come on. But there's also a beauty to it in that I love her so dearly and I want her to be able to experience a school and her life safely. That's not too much to ask. And the fact that we've seen these things happen again and again throughout our country, what it tells me is maybe we're not seeing these kids as our own. And so that's my ask to people, don't think about these as just somebody else's kids. Think about them as if they were your own. And then maybe, maybe we would have the opportunity to actually act, to truly make it not happen again.

[News Anchor / Host]

I have been thinking about them as my own all day as I know many people watching have been thinking about them as their own. It's so fresh here. It's just happened this morning and there has already been sort of some effort, which I think is so sick and disgusting, to weaponize some of the details, even if wewe don't know a lot at this point in time. Obviously the law enforcement in your city have been keeping people abreast, including details about the individual possibly being trans, about the individual possibly having negative things to say about Trump, about some things that have been on the weapons. A lot of this is just very early reporting. What do you do as a leader of your city to prevent details from being weaponized and using this to blame something other than the guns.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

First off, anybody who is using this as an opportunity to villainize trans people has completely lost touch with a common humanity. Operate not off of hate for any community. Operate off of love for our kids. Kids died today. This should be about protecting our children. This should be about loving our children. And far too often I feel like, people will think of the conclusion that they want to get to, and then they'll, like, reverse manufacture the facts that they want to hear to get to that end point. You know, we should be standing up for our Catholic community, by the way, right now, because this is a Catholic church. We should be standing up for kids and churches and schools and all that. Let's love each other. The. The antidote to hate is not more hate. The antidote to hate and cowardice, which clearly this shooter had, is not more hate. Hurt people. Hurt people. The antidote is love. The antidote is standing up for our neighbor, no matter who they are. That's where we need to get to right now. And so, no, this whole effort to villainize a community, this is not about a community. Community that did this. A community didn't do this. A person did this. And that was a horrific act. And we should all be saying that out loud, and we should all be loving each other more.

[News Anchor / Host]

You may have just answered my question, but I know I've heard from a lot of friends and family and viewers today about people who watched this tragedy, watched you speaking out today, were sort of grateful to you for saying it. Stopped tweeting things like thoughts and prayers, which I felt the same way. What do you say to people out there who want to do something to combat gun violence, share the concern you have about the number of guns in this country, but feel helpless in moments like this? They don't know what to do or where to start.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, thoughts and prayers. Like, these kids were literally praying. They were in the pews of a church. And look, people benefit greatly from prayer. There are people that experience, you know, a deep transformation from it, and I don't want to undermine that one bit. And at the same time, we can do a whole lot more than that. I'm a mayor. I fill potholes. We try to put up more affordable housing. We try to keep people safe. So I'm not an expert on every statutory section of gun law throughout the country. What I do know is that we have too many of them. What I do know is that they can come into cities around our country by the trunk load. What I do know is this particular individual had a whole ton of guns. And in most places, you can buy guns, virtually as many of them as you want. As much as you want. You can buy them. Apparently, even if you've got some severe mental health disorders that might see you commit a horrific act like happened today. Why are we okay with that? Collectively? Why are we okay with the danger that that could potentially pose to our children, to your children. Why are we not standing up and saying, hang on a second, we care more deeply about our children than we do about some sort of political gain. This is not about politics. This is about kids. This is about your kids. All of us should be doing more here.

[News Anchor / Host]

That's exactly what it is about. What people should also know is that activism and voices and talking about all of these kids as human beings is powerful and impactful. And that's what makes change happen. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, I know you have had a horrific day. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for being here with us and for speaking out so forcefully. We really appreciate it.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

Thank you.

[News Anchor / Host]

We have much more still ahead. Coming up, we're going to talk to Senator Tina Smith about this moment and the juxtaposition of President Trump's priorities. And later, the apparent purge of the CDC happening tonight and the new worries about the weaponization of of public health, all after a quick break.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And have you been listening to my podcast? We are knee deep in season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations? Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now. Wherever you get your podcasts need to.

[Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey]

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[News Anchor / Host]

Today. As we've been talking about all show so far, we are covering a uniquely American tragedy yet again, and this time at a Catholic school in Minneapolis, where this morning a shooter killed two children and injured 17 others, including 14 other children. And yet again, as families mourn and another community is left devastated by gun violence, we as a country are left to contend with the same damning fact that has lingered over us for decades. That of the most developed and richest nations in the world, the United States, has by far the highest rate of gun violence. And that is in no small part due to a point Mayor Fry just made. We have by far the most guns per capita than any other country. Just over 120 guns for every 100 people. More guns than people. And we once again grapple with this national crisis. We can't ignore what is also happening in the background. Donald Trump has deployed thousands of federal troops to the nation's capital to combat what he has declared a crime emergency is apparently such an emergency that in addition to patrols and occasionally aiding with arrests, National Guard troops will also be helping with sanitation and landscaping duties. Yes, that is picking up trash and laying mulch to address the apparent crime emergency happening in the nation's capital. Now, based on estimations, this DC deployment could be costing around $1 million a day, money that could be spent while supporting programs that fight crime, like, say, addressing gun violence, for example. So there is money and political will among Trump and Republicans to put American troops in American cities. We're seeing that there's none of that when it comes to combating mass gun violence. That is unique to only here. Joining me now is Minnesota Democratic Senator Tina Smith. Senator Smith, it is great to see you. And I was thinking earlier today just about you and speaking with you just a couple of months ago about another terrible tragedy and the loss of a good friend of yours and the targeting of elected officials. Your state has been through so much. Let me just start by asking you how the community, the Minneapolis community is doing. How are the people you've been speaking with? How are they doing this evening?

[Senator Tina Smith]

Well, the depth of our grief is just unfathomable. The Loss of these sweet children on the first week of school is just so hard to wrap our brains around the evilness of this attack on these kids and this incredible school, which is only a couple of miles from where Archie and I live in Minneapolis. I know this community so well, and this school is an anchor of strength and organizing and power in this part of my city. And so it is devastating. It is horrible. And I know that everyone is trying to figure out both how to make sense of it and also simultaneously, how do we scrape ourselves up off the sidewalk and figure out where we go from here. I'm up in northern Minnesota this evening, but there was a vigil in my neighborhood with thousands of people who came to be in solidarity and be in community with one another on this horrible, horrible day. And that's the strength of our community.

[News Anchor / Host]

We showed some of that vigil. It was incredibly powerful. They had to bring in more seats so people could come into the room. And this was a tragedy that obviously shook the community that happened just this morning. So these are all people showing up to honor these two lives that were lost and the people who were injured, and a community that is unquestionably traumatized. It is so fresh, and it's hard to talk about, like, what can be done and what should be done. But I always try to find moments, and I know you do, too, to give people a little bit of hope of what's possible. Because I think people feel hopeless in this moment or feel like there's nothing they can do. And I remember well, and I talked about it a little bit in the beginning of the Show Back in 2022, when in the days and weeks after Uvalde and the shooting in Buffalo, people came together and passed what was not a perfect bill, but was something. Do you think that that is this is the type of thing that could motivate more conversations? I don't know, at a federal level, maybe at a state level. Do you have that feeling, or is that brewing around in the conversations you've had at all quite yet?

[Senator Tina Smith]

Well, I think that you have to choose to be hopeful. Hope is an action word. It is not. You don't sit and wait for hope to happen to you. You make that decision. And I think it's also really important to understand that people who take these kinds of violent actions, who are evil in this way, their fundamental goal is to make us feel like we are powerless, make us feel like there's nothing that we can do. And, of course, you and I know, and so many thousands and thousands of people that are listening to this know that that is not the case, that we do have power, that we do have autonomy, that we can change this. And the fact that in this country, you are 10 times more likely to be shot in a school or in a grocery store or in a park than in any other developed nation in the country, that is a choice that we're making in this country. And we need to make different choices. And I love the way you started this show by reminding us, though, even though it was, was far from perfect, the leadership that my friend Chris Murphy and Republicans in the Senate showed to put together the bipartisan Safer Communities act made a difference. I believe that lives were saved because of that. Not these precious lives, but lives have been saved. And we have to use that as our momentum to keep working on this and to not give up and to not let others make us feel that we are powerless. I, you know, I was listening carefully to what the principal at Annunciation Catholic School said today, and he quoted an African proverb which basically says, when you pray, pray with your feet. Faith is about taking action to get the kind of community that you want. And we should all use that as our motivation as we try to keep ourselves going in this horrible moment.

[News Anchor / Host]

That is a very powerful quote. I'm glad you shared it. I just pointed this out. And obviously the tragedy today in Minneapolis has nothing to do with politics and nothing to do with lots of things that we often talk about on the show. But it's hard not to recognize and point out that the backdrop of this right now is Donald Trump and his administration sending military into the Streets of Washington, D.C. into the streets of Chicago, into the other streets in the country, all in the name of addressing crime, which, as we know, is not what it is doing. How do you there's no way to make sense of that, but help our viewers understand the juxtaposition of that and how outrageous it is. Really.

[Senator Tina Smith]

Well, first we start from the place that everybody deserves to be safe and to feel safe in their communities, in their homes, in their neighborhoods. But what Donald Trump is doing is using fear of crime, often well placed fear, as a political cudgel. He's using it to enhance, to expand people's fear rather than actually doing anything to keep people safer. And I think of these National Guard members, citizen soldiers who are now patrolling the National Mall. These are individuals who are not trained to be law enforcement. In fact, in some cases, doing this work puts them endanger themselves while they are actually doing nothing, no fault of their own, to address the need for public safety that we have in all of our communities. And the thing that I'm particularly just blasted by, the hypocrisy at the same time that this is happening, the Trump administration is rolling back the funding for violence prevention grants for support that we passed in a bipartisan way. He's taking away that money actually harming the abilities of hurting the abilities of communities to do what they know how to do to make themselves safer.

[News Anchor / Host]

It is outrageous hypocrisy. Thank you for raising and thank you for being here. Senator Tina Smith. And just all of us are thinking about the community of Minneapolis tonight. Appreciate you being here. Thank you.

[Senator Tina Smith]

Thank you, Jen.

[News Anchor / Host]

Coming up, there's breaking news tonight just in about the CDC director and the White House pushing her out. More on that. What's the latest and the public health implications of it all, which is so important after a short break. Okay, so it's back to school season. It's also about to be flu season. And a new COVID 19 variant is sweeping across the United States. So it's one hell of a time to get this news today. And a lot of it is still developing. But here's the headline from The Washington Post, CDC director ousted after RFK Jr pushed her to change vaccine policy. Now, according to the Post, CDC Director Susan Menarez was pressed for days by Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. S administration lawyers and other officials over whether she would support rescinding certain approvals for coronavirus vaccines. And Monarz reportedly resisted that pressure, prompting Secretary Kennedy to, quote, urge her to resign for not supporting President Trump's agenda. The Post reports that Manara's even went so far as to enlist the help of Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy to try and stay in her job. But that reportedly only angered RFK Jr. Tonight, lawyers representing Director Manaros are pushing back on these reports, saying that she has neither resigned nor yet has been fired and that she will not go quietly. They write in a statement, quote, when CDC Director Susan Menarez refused to rubber stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fire dedicated health experts, she chose protecting the public over serving a political agenda. For that, she has been targeted. Dr. Minarez has neither resigned nor received notification from the White House that she has been fired. And as a person of integrity and devoted to science, she will not resign. Now, just moments ago, the White House released a statement saying that Dr. Manaros has now officially been terminated by the White House. Tonight, at least four other top CDC officials have resigned in what appears to be a coordinated response to all of this. I should note that the CDC director is not some holdover from the Biden administration. She's not a deep stater, as they call them. This was Donald Trump's hand picked choice to lead the cdc. She was confirmed by the Senate less than a month ago. Since that time, we have seen a deadly shooting at CDC headquarters by an anti vaccine extremist. We've seen hundreds of current and former CDC staff members sign an open letter urging Secretary Kennedy to to stop spreading vaccine misinformation. Please. And we've seen widespread criticism of Kennedy's decision to kill vital vaccine research, including from Trump's own surgeon general during his first term. But the Trump administration's response to all of that is not to get rid of RFK Jr. If only is to try and get rid of the people standing up to him, even the ones Trump himself appointed. They were confirmed by the Republican Senate. The head of the American Public Health association joins me here next. We're continuing to follow the breaking news that the Trump administration is reportedly trying to oust their own CDC director less than a month after she was confirmed. And the attempted ouster comes after the director reportedly refused to go along with RFK Jr. S anti vaccine agenda. Tonight, the CDC director says through her lawyers that she has not been fired and will not resign. But the White House said just moments ago that Manara has been, quote, terminated from her position. We'll have to learn more. Joining Me now is Dr. Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American public health association. Dr. Benjamin, thank you for being here with me. We're all trying to digest this news and I think a lot of people watching are trying to understand how it's going to impact them, which I think we're going to try to explain here. It was not just the CDC director. It was also a number of others who resigned and put out statements as well. It seems like a lot of people in the leadership of the CDC are no longer in their roles. What kind of impact could that have on the work that they do that impacts people who are watching?

[Dr. Georges Benjamin]

Well, this is an example on the part of the secretary of failed leadership and administrative incompetence. You know, he has created a toxic work environment. And then of course, after them bringing on board a highly competent expert in infectious diseases who told the secretary that his ideas around Covid vaccination were not scientifically valid, he decides he wants to fire her. And I think what it means for the rest of us is that we're all going to be at risk because people who need to be vaccinated will not be.

[News Anchor / Host]

It just won't. They won't be accessible because she overruled what he was trying to say. One of the things that stuck out to me there was a lot, and we're all just digesting this is that these departing CDC staffers are warning about the weaponization of public health in this administration, which is, is such an incredibly dangerous thing because we rely on, and I've worked in administrations, you rely on non political data and information from doctors and experts. What is the impact, what should people understand is the impact of it being weaponized, which it is by RFK Jr and others in the Trump administration.

[Dr. Georges Benjamin]

Public health works on trust. And the minute you break that trust, you lose the public. And we saw that during COVID We've seen that in a lot of public health emergencies where the public has been confused and they don't know who to trust, you know, what to do. And what that ultimately results is more disease, heartbreak and higher death.

[News Anchor / Host]

How much danger? I mean, one of the impacts here is that there aren't a lot of people. I mean, she was standing up to RFK Jr. S recommendations. A number of others in the administration within the public health sector who resigned were as well. It seems like this is also clearing the way for him to be able to push his agenda. What concern? What are your big. There's a lot of concerns I think we should all have. But as an expert here, what concerns do you have about what that could mean?

[Dr. Georges Benjamin]

You know, they're pushing out some of the world's top experts in disease, infectious disease, chronic disease, injury, climate disease, environmental health. They're driving them out of the agency. And what this means is that again, the air will not be safe to breathe, the water not safe to drink and the food not safe to eat. We can't assure you of that because the federal oversight of those activities won't be there with the experts that are necessary to get the job done.

[News Anchor / Host]

One of the ways people know who the CDC director is is of course from during the period of COVID and the height of COVID But there's a lot more they than a minute left. But what should people understand about how not having a person who's in charge there, what it means in terms of what kind of information the public gets and what they don't get access to.

[Dr. Georges Benjamin]

You know, CDC is like a military unit. They're involved with fighting disease 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So in effect what they've done is they took the general off the stage, all the majors, all the leaders of all the divisions, and they're, they're running them out the door. And so you don't have a command structure in place to manage these terrible problems that are happening to us each and every day. That's the impact on the American people.

[News Anchor / Host]

We're going to be talking about this a lot more in the coming days. Dr. Benjamin, thank you so much for coming and joining us with this breaking news on such short notice. We really appreciate it. We'll be right back. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok back.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw. It's hon. Best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off Camera with Kelly Ripa now. Wherever you get your podcasts.