Psaki delves into the heart of the scandal that rocked the Maine Senate race

Summary

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The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: "Psaki delves into the heart of the scandal that rocked the Maine Senate race"
Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC

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Overview

In this episode, Jen Psaki tackles not only the ongoing and disastrous government shutdown—rapidly approaching its most dire consequences for millions relying on SNAP benefits and Affordable Care Act subsidies—but also dives into the high-profile scandal surrounding Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner. Through sharp, in-depth interviews with political figures such as Senator Jeff Merkley and a candid conversation with Platner himself, the episode explores democratic accountability, evolving standards for political redemption, and the intersection of populist politics with personal histories in the digital age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Government Shutdown’s Human Toll

(01:31 - 08:40)

• Escalating Pain for Americans:

  • The government shutdown reaches Day 28, leaving hundreds of thousands unpaid, airports disrupted, and crucial public services halted.
  • Starting Nov. 1, over 40 million Americans set to lose access to SNAP benefits, overwhelming local food banks and charities.
  • Psaki draws attention to leadership failures, emphasizing Speaker Mike Johnson’s inaction and the Trump administration's deliberate decisions not to utilize the SNAP emergency fund.

• Politics of Pain:

  • Mike Johnson frames the suffering as outside Republican control, using an odd “pain dials” analogy.
  • Psaki debunks this, citing USDA’s prior contingency plans and highlighting the administration's choices as calculated pressure tactics.

  “That is a completely wacky and off dials analogy he was trying to do there.”
  — Jen Psaki, 03:36

  “They aren't doing these things because the shutdown is forcing them to. They are doing them because they want to.”
  — Jen Psaki, 06:55

• Lawsuits and Legal Pushback:

  • Positive update: Over two dozen states sue the administration for refusing to use emergency SNAP funds, alongside judicial orders pausing federal layoffs, suggesting possible reversals of the administration’s positions.

2. Interview with Senator Jeff Merkley: Democracy and the SNAP Crisis

(12:03 - 21:13)

• Unprecedented Negligence:

  • Merkley underscores the lack of negotiation as historically unprecedented:

    “The majority party in control is unwilling to sit down and actually talk ... to avert real pain and tragedy for the American people.”
    — Sen. Jeff Merkley, 13:05

• Administration Choices and Accountability:

  • He confirms that the administration does, in fact, have the resources and authority to continue SNAP benefits, but is “trying to crank up the pain” as political leverage.
  • Merkley laments that, with the House out of session, Democrats have little practical recourse save for public pressure and truth-telling.
  • Outlines the administration’s removal of key contingency language from the USDA website and the very real impacts in his state (e.g., 210,000 children at risk).

• Corruption and Crypto:

  • Discusses President Trump’s pardoning of Binance’s founder, the UAE’s purchase of $2 billion of “Trump Coin,” and subsequent national security concerns—illustrating profound, unprecedented corruption.

    “We're talking now billions of dollars taken in by this president in these conflicts of interest.”
    — Sen. Jeff Merkley, 17:05

• Authoritarian Creep:

  • Merkley details his record 22-hour speech on the Senate floor (“No King” speech), warning that modern republics die not with a coup, but with the incremental erosion of institutional checks.

  • He calls for urgent action and national rallying to confront this modern authoritarianism.

    “You hear the administration say, we are canceling this program because it’s a Democratic program... all of those are authoritarian statements.”
    — Sen. Jeff Merkley, 19:28

3. The Graham Platner Scandal: Redemption and New Political Orders

(22:33 - 42:00)

• Context & Fallout:

  • Psaki recaps the tidal wave of controversy around Graham Platner:
    • Offensive Reddit posts (anti-law enforcement language, slurs, insensitive jokes, calls for political violence).
    • A tattoo with Nazi connotations, claimed to be an ignorant mistake during Marine service, but with questions about when he learned its true meaning.
  • Despite these revelations, Platner’s poll numbers remain robust, and crowds are turning out in force—indicating shifting public tolerance or desire for authenticity over perfection.

• Responses From Peers and Voters:

  • Democratic colleagues and Maine voters express empathy for Platner’s journey and the potential for personal evolution.

    “Graham has made a lot of mistakes ... But he’s owned those mistakes, owned up to them, and he's evolved.”
    — Sen. Jeff Merkley, 24:31

• Candor & Contrition—Platner’s Perspective:

  • Platner tells Psaki he expected vetting of his online life but was caught off-guard by the tattoo controversy.

  • He forcefully denies prior knowledge that the tattoo’s symbolism was problematic before recent media inquiries.

    “I have spent my entire life essentially hating Nazis. So to have that accusation thrown my way, that was not expected.”
    — Graham Platner, 27:09

  • On his past internet statements:

    • Reflects on personal growth, PTSD from military service, and transformation since making those comments.

    “I've had a journey. It took a while to get here. I was certainly not always the person I am today.”
    — Graham Platner, 30:57

  • On forgiveness and growth:

    “I know that people can change because I know that I changed ... recognizing that many people are struggling and they're just looking for answers.”
    — Graham Platner, 32:20

• Voter Connection & Outsider Appeal:

  • Platner suggests his survival through scandal is due to Mainers’ preference for authenticity and a shared belief in second chances.

    “People want to hear about policy... They can tell whether you're lying to them or not.”
    — Graham Platner, 37:09

• Resisting Victimhood:

  • Clarifies he isn’t shirking responsibility, but finds it unfair how political opponents focus on scandal without interest in his growth or context.

    “It's a surreal experience, if I'm going to be entirely honest. But I'm not trying to shirk responsibility in the slightest.”
    — Graham Platner, 39:36

4. Notable Moments and Quotes

• Merkley on Authoritarianism:
  “If we don't act decisively now and in the next election, this authoritarian power will become entrenched.” (20:48)

• Platner at the Town Hall:
  “I have to remind myself that I have no right to quit.” (25:39)

  Town hall attendee:
  “If I stand with you, will you fight with me? Will you stand up for me?” (35:10)
  Platner:
  “I firmly believe that every single American has the right to live the life they want to live in their own body as they see fit ... That's a responsibility that I feel, and it is why I am doing this.” (35:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Shutdown & SNAP Crisis Analysis: 01:31 – 08:40
• Sen. Merkley Interview – Leadership, Authoritarianism, Crypto Scandal: 12:03 – 21:13
• Platner Scandal Introduction & Responses: 22:33 – 25:39
• Graham Platner Interview Part 1 (Reddit/Tattoo/Personal Growth): 27:09 – 32:20
• Platner Town Hall Emotional Clip & Interview Part 2: 35:10 – 39:36

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Memorable Quotes

• “This is going to be very painful for a lot of Americans ... What Mike Johnson is wrong about is that this is all somehow out of his hands."
  — Jen Psaki, 03:36

• “We're not talking $100,000 or a million. We're talking now billions of dollars taken in by this president in these conflicts of interest.”
  — Sen. Jeff Merkley, 17:05

• “People want to hear about policy ... They want to hear about what is wrong and what we're going to do to change it. And that's what I've been doing.”
  — Graham Platner, 37:09

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is direct, urgent, and, at times, deeply personal—reflective of both Psaki's signature style and the stakes in each discussion. Platner is open, vulnerable but determined, while Merkley is grave, technocratic, and warning of a gathering democratic crisis. Voters and town hall attendees are skeptical yet hopeful for political change.

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Briefing" artfully weaves high-stakes policy debate, legal and institutional analysis, and raw political drama. With America on the brink of a public assistance crisis, the conversation pivots to how both institutions and individuals respond to adversity—opening up new conversations around accountability, redemption, and political authenticity in a polarized age.

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Transcript

[Jerry]

Welcome back to Listen to youo Heart.

[Graham Platner]

I'm Jerry.

[Jerry]

And I'm Jerry's Heart.

[Jen Psaki]

Today's Repatha Evolocimab Heart.

[Graham Platner]

Why'd you pick this one?

[Jerry]

Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay.

[Jerry]

To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our LDL C, our bad cholesterol checked, and talking to our doctor.

[Graham Platner]

I'm listening.

[Jerry]

And if it's still too high, Repatha can be added to a statin to lower our LDL C and our heart attack risk.

[Graham Platner]

Hmm. Guess it's time to ask about Repatha.

[Jerry]

Do not take Repatha if you are allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur.

[Jen Psaki]

Get medical help right away if you.

[Jerry]

Have trouble breathing or swallowing. Swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar and redness. Pain or bruising at the injection site.

[Jen Psaki]

Listen to your heart.

[Jerry]

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[Jen Psaki]

Today is day 28 of the government shutdown. Day 28 and we have seen plenty of pain from the shutdown. Already hundreds of thousands of government workers without pay. Airports shut down from staffing shortages. Maybe you've experienced delays as a result. Vital government work just basically not being done across the country. Not to the fault of the government workers. But as bad as things have been so far, and they've been bad, they're likely about to get a lot worse for a much, much larger group of people in entirely preventable ways, by the way, that are being forced upon the country by the Republican members of Congress. This Saturday, November 1st, more than 40 million Americans are set to lose access to SNAP benefits to food stamps. 40 million people. And as a result, nearly everywhere in the country, food banks and local charities are bracing themselves for a level of demand that they know that they cannot meet. Imagine that feeling. That's the cliff we as a country are headed for right now, just four days from now. A Republican speaker of the House, Mike Johnson won't even bring Congress back into session to try to stop it, to try to negotiate it. In fact, when he was asked about it, Johnson has now repeatedly said that he and the Trump administration have done everything they can, but their hands are just tied.

[Mike Johnson]

Well, look, I can tell you the administration has worked, as you all know, very creatively and very hard to limit the pain on the Americans because of the Democrats shutdown and the SNAP benefits is a unique situation. Think of it this way. The White House executive branch in a shutdown has a large control panel full of dials. Under the Obama administration, they turn those dials, the pain dials to 10 immediately. The Republican Party is the opposite. And President Trump has proven that every day of this shutdown he has tried to move funds around to find unobligated funds to cover the bases. They have all the pain dials turned back to just a 0 or a 1 as best they can. But when you're out of resources, they go all the way up and it's out of their hands. It's out of our hands and that's why we're so frustrated.

[Jen Psaki]

That is a completely wacky and off dials analogy he was trying to do there. Now Speaker Johnson is right about one of the things he said, that this is going to be very painful for a lot of Americans. I mean, let's just take Johnson's own congressional district, Louisiana. 4. More than 61,000 households rely on SNAP in his district. That is nearly 20% of his district. One in five people that speaker Mike Johnson represents who will be really hurt by these cuts. So he's right that a lot of people would be hurt. What Mike Johnson is wrong about is that this is all somehow out of his hands. The reality here is that there is an emergency fund for snap, a rainy day fund set aside for things like this. But the Trump administration has decided not to use it. And Speaker Johnson is just basically co signing that decision. No surprise, pretending like they were forced to kick more than 40 million people off of SNAP, when really it was a decision to do that, not to plan for this. That's what they didn't do. A decision not to negotiate, to take steps to prevent this. The irony here is that up until recently, the USDA had prepared for this as part of their lapse of funding plan. And that plan explicitly stated that during a government shutdown, snap's operation should continue. Since the program has been provided with multi year contingency funds. Of course, that part of the USDA's website has reportedly now vanished. I would note it was there in the first administration of the Trump presidency. The first time. Now, today, Democratic Senators Amy Klobuchar and Cory Booker sent a letter to Trump's Agriculture Secretary, Brooke Rollins, laying out how all of this is a choice for the Trump administration, a choice that they are making, and even pointing to how in Trump's first term, as I just noted, his own administration issued guidance saying that emergency funding for SNAP was available if needed. This does not have to be happening. More than 40 million Americans do not need to go hungry next week. And the Trump administration is choosing to make it happen anyway because they want to and because they're using it, using the shutdown as a justification for it. I mean, we've seen this dynamic before, right? We saw this early on in the shutdown when the Trump administration decided to use the shutdown as an excuse to lay off thousands of government workers. Not only did they not have to do that because of the shutdown, that is not a thing at all. It was a choice to do that, to be clear. And doing that, by the way, may have actually been illegal. Today, a federal judge in California issued a temporary restraining order barring the Trump administration from doing any mass layoffs during the shutdown and pausing the layoffs the administration already tried to do. So my point is they are in control of the White House, the Senate, and the House. They aren't doing these things because the shutdown is forcing them to. They are doing them because they want to. And they are using the shutdown as a justification. I mean, as much as Mike Johnson is claiming in public right now that he doesn't want to cut snap, that it pains him to do so, it's quite a performance. His history says otherwise. I mean, this is from a Politico piece back in 2023 from right after Mike Johnson first became speaker of the House, says, quote, johnson more so than previous speaker Kevin McCarthy, is a proponent of more hardline GOP efforts to overhaul the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, otherwise known as snap. As a senior member of the conservative leaning Republican Study Committee, Johnson back proposals to roll back food aid expansions under Biden and block states from exempting some work requirements for snap. Now, if you go back even farther than that, as the story notes, in 2018, Johnson referred to SNAP as our nation's most broken and bloated welfare program. So, yeah, I have a lot of trouble believing that Johnson is all that Upset right now, whatever he says publicly. But this line, the idea that Republicans have their hands tied by the shutdown, that there's nothing they can do about this nutrition program, helps people eat food across the country and grip groceries, that they're doing everything they can. I mean, that's the party line right now. Here was Vice President JD Vance earlier today talking about the mass layoffs. The Trump administration tried to use the shutdown to justify the layoffs that just today a federal judge stopped because they might be illegal.

[Jerry]

Unfortunately, we're not going to be able to pay everybody because we've been handed a very bad hand by the Democrats. This is one of the reasons why you've seen some layoffs in the federal workforce.

[Jen Psaki]

Is it, though? Because all the facts seem to suggest otherwise. I mean, the opposite. Republicans are purposefully making this shutdown as painful as possible on the American people, literally taking food out of the mouths of more than 40 million of the poorest Americans. And they are trying to claim that that is not their fault, that they are actually doing everything possible to stop that from happening. They're really sad about it.

[Jerry]

But we've got food stamp benefits that are set to run out in a week. We're trying to keep as much open as possible. We just need the Democrats to actually help us out.

[Jen Psaki]

Are you now, this is coming from a guy who sold himself to the American public as Mr. Hillbilly Elegy, as the man of the people from Appalachia who understands what it really means to live in poverty, who also doesn't think, and never has thought that government assistance programs are the answer. So I seriously doubt, despite his own upbringing, he claims, despite what he just said, that he's really trying to do everything he can to protect these benefits either. Now, the sliver of good news today is that more than two dozen states sued the Trump administration over their refusal to use emergency funding for snap. And that might actually reverse Trump's decision here, because that is what this is. It's a decision. Republicans are driving our country towards a cliff on purpose as leverage to try to get Democrats to agree to their budget. They literally say that out loud. And remember the issue. That is the sticking point. The one thing Democrats are asking for during this shutdown is to extend congressional health care subsidies. This Saturday is a big day on that front, too. That is when open enrollment starts and when millions of Americans all across the country are going to go to sign up for health care and see that their monthly premiums have literally doubled for millions of Americans, that will mean health insurance will be no longer affordable. So upwards of 40 million Americans who rely on SNAP benefits for food may go to the grocery store only to realize they also can no longer afford groceries. And upwards of 24 million Americans may realize that without the Affordable Care act subsidies, the price of health care has doubled or tripled and it may be even unaffordable to several million. This isn't because of the shutdown. This is because Republicans in Congress are choosing to make this all as painful as possible. The ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee, Senator Jeff Merkley, joins me to discuss in just 90 seconds. Hello Senator.

[Jerry]

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[Jen Psaki]

There's a big change coming to this network, but I'll still be here asking the kinds of questions that I used to face. Only our name is changing. Same mission, same place, new name.

[Jerry]

MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. November 15th. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows, ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddows original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Jen Psaki]

Joining me now is Senator Jeff Merkley, ranking Democrat on the Senate Budget Committee, who last week held the Senate floor in a marathon speech lasting 22 hours and 37 minutes in protest of Trump and his administration and the fact that we are in the middle of authoritarianism right now. And I definitely want to get to that. I'm taking advantage of the fact that you have so much expertise on what is impacted Americans right now, which is this government shutdown. I'd also just note happy birthday last Friday.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Well, thank you very much.

[Jen Psaki]

You had a big week last week and we will get to that. Let me start by one of the things that struck me. I've never negotiated a budget, never negotiated the end of a shutdown, but I've been in White Houses and governments that have been a part of it JD Vance, the Vice President, went to the Hill today. He met with the Senate Majority Leader. He had some comments afterwards, a little bit. But in normal times, this would have been a negotiation to try to prevent 40 million Americans from being kicked off SNAP benefits or Americans from being afraid that their health care costs would go up. How? From your vantage point, how. Just alarming. How maddening is it?

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Well, as far as I know, this is completely unprecedented. The idea that in a democracy, the majority party in control is unwilling to sit down and actually talk to the minority party and that the President's team, when they come to the Hill, don't get involved to try to avert real pain and tragedy for the American people. So extremely frustrating. I mean, we're negotiators because by virtue of being in Congress, you're working with people across the aisle to get things passed. But there's no negotiations going on, and.

[Jen Psaki]

It'S hard to see how it ends if the party in power is unwilling to do that. Let me ask you about the SNAP benefits. And there was a letter that went from two of your Democratic colleagues, Senator Booker, Senator Klobuchar today to usda, the Secretary of Agriculture, Brooke Rollins, basically saying that she should use the so called contingency fund. It wouldn't cover all of the SNAP benefits needed in November, but it would cover a chunk of them. They're basically saying they can't do that. They removed language from the website. You understand the rules here? I tried to outline them. But what are the facts here in terms of what the administration could do if they wanted to prevent people from getting kicked off of SNAP benefits?

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Well, I posted their language that used to be on their website and it says, we have the authority and we have the money and the SNAP benefits will continue. And then suddenly that disappears from their website and they're saying, oh, we're sorry, everyone has to go hungry. It's the Democrats fault. Well, it's clear they have the authority and capability, but they're trying to crank up the pain on the American people. They're using hungry children, hungry families, families that are basically the least affluent in our society. I mean, in my state, 210,000 children. 210,000 children are on SNAP.

[Jen Psaki]

Mm.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

That's 210,000 children going hungry because Republicans decided not to use that authority and fund that are already in place.

[Jen Psaki]

That is an outrageous number. I just noted. I mean, one in five people in Mike Johnson's district rely on SNAP benefits, and that doesn't seem to motivate him. Is there anything that Congress can do, if the Department of Agriculture. Is there anything that can be done in the party that's out of power in Congress?

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Well, it could be done if the House was in. The House is on vacation for what, six weeks now. And so any law that if we could pass a new law, and of course it would have to be signed by the President, but if it had bipartisan support, we could be, we could really be holding the President accountable. There is a tension in our Constitution that says the laws are written by Congress and the President implements them. But right now, we have this kind of rubber stamp Congress where the leadership of the House and Senate are looking to the President saying, what do you want? Oh, you don't want us to negotiate? Okay, we won't. That is a complete abdication of the constitutional role. And so at this moment, basically the answer to your question is no, we do not have the power of the minority party in one chamber to be able to get these benefits rolling except by trying to tell the truth and make it clear that the Republicans are responsible and have them go, yeah, okay, yeah, okay, we'll fix it.

[Jen Psaki]

But it's important for people to understand, and you would know these facts and details, that if they feel frustrated about this and angry about it, there's a contingency fund that they could turn on and they could use. And people out there watching can call their members of Congress about that. Let me ask you about something else. One of the things that is so galling. I mean, Trump's profiting off of crypto is always galling. But in this moment, we're talking about 40 million people losing their SNAP benefits, families literally potentially going hungry. I mean, just last week he pardoned the founder of the crypto exchange Binance, and today Binance promoted the Trump crypto business, which, according to Reuters, makes up 90% of the family's business income. This is outrageous. But I know you follow this closely. You talk about it frequently. Outline for us why it's so outrageous to you.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Well, there's a couple dimensions here. The first is that UAE, United Arab Emirates, they buy $2 billion of the Trump coin and invest it in Binance. And in exchange, the President says, you know those high end AI chips that we said for national security reasons, we can't give to you, we'll give them to you. And so that was one form of this corruption. A second form of the corruption is this immediate piece of the pardon. And then as soon as the founder is pardoned, he uses his company to promote Trump's personal profit or his family's profit. So both of these are corruption on a scale unimaginable. You know, my very first political act was to write a letter to the editor when I was junior in high school about Vice President Agnew taking a bribe of $100,000. We're not talking $100,000 or a million. We're talking now billions of dollars taken in by this president in these conflicts of interest.

[Jen Psaki]

Though now we know the corruption warrior origin story for you. You gave this, and I started the show talking about this. You gave this 22 hours and 37 minutes. Did I get that exactly right?

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

37 minutes.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay. In 37 minutes, you held the Senate floor. That is not an easy thing to do. And in your speech, which I talked about a lot on the show, you mentioned how people tend to think that republics die with men wielding guns when they really die. That's not how they really die. They die when people allow authoritarianism to rise and prosper. Tell me more about your decision to do that, why it was so important and what you hope happens next.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Yes, well, in the 50s and 60s, republics did die when they were overthrown in coups. And we still tend to think about that. As long as there's no folks kind of coming to Capitol Hill with guns and taking over our government, we must still have a republic. But the fact is that's not the case. And what we have now are elected authoritarian figures around the world who then take away the checks and balances of their own constitution. And it happens, if you have one, a rubber stamp Congress that starts to say, you know, our responsibility is just to do whatever the president said. And second, if you have a Supreme Court that adds more power to the executive, and we have that as well. So we have all three elements. And if every time you hear the administration say, we are canceling this program because it's a democratic program, or we are funding this program because it's in line with our priorities, or those grants are disappearing because they're not in align with our. All of those are authoritarian statements. In democracy, it is the legislature with people representing every corner of the country. They come together and they lay out the programs and how much they're going to get. In an authoritarian government, the president says, I'm funding this, but not that. And that's what you hear right now. And it's not just about stealing the power of the purse that's happening, but it's attacking freedom of the press, freedom of speech. It's about basically using the power of the government to extort centers of power, telling universities, you don't get your research grants unless you teach the way we want you to law firms, you don't get your national security permits to be able to have the clients you have unless you take and donate a billion. Well, the total is a billion dollars now to nonprofits that Trump wants to have free legal aid. So all of this is part of basically replacing our government by and for the people with government by and for the powerful. We're in it right now. Now is when we have to rally across America. And that's why I'm so proud of the 7 million who turned out for the no King speech. And it's when the rest of us who are elected have to carry the voice in every possible way we can that if we don't act decisively now and in the next election, this authoritarian power will become entrenched.

[Jen Psaki]

Well, 22 hours on the Senate floor is certainly a contribution to that. Senator Jeff Merkley, thank you for being here.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Thank you very much.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay, coming up, since I last spoke to Maine Senate candidate Graham Plattner, we've gotten news about an avalanche of offensive Reddit posts from his past. And we've gotten news about a tattoo that resembled Nazi imagery. And yet his poll numbers seem to be holding right now and the crowds are still showing up. Graham Platner is going to join me here live in just a moment. And we'll be right back.

[Jerry]

It's Cybersecurity awareness month, and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, LifeLock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com specialoffer terms apply.

[Jen Psaki]

A big change is coming to this network. Not in the kinds of stories we tell or in our values. The only change is our name. Same mission, new name.

[Jerry]

MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. November 15th.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay. Two weeks ago on this show, I interviewed Maine Senate candidate Graham Platner, the oysterman, an upstart candidate trying to win the Democratic nomination to challenge Susan Collins in November. And a lot has happened since that interview. I mean, just days after that interview, a number of Platner's old Reddit posts resurfaced, showing the candidate had made a number of offensive statements online, calling himself a communist, calling all police officers bastards, using anti gay slurs Suggesting black people don't tip, minimizing sexual assault, and appearing to call for political violence. Platner has since apologized for all those posts, saying that the posts, which are at least four years old, are not indicative of who he is today. And he has also openly talked about the impact of his time in the military and the PTSD he has suffered and what he has battled through since that period of time. But not long after that story broke, another controversy from Platner's past resurfaced when it was revealed that Platner had a Nazi linked symbol tattooed on his chest. Now, Platner said he got the tattoo in Croatia in 2007 while deployed with Marines, and that he didn't know at the time what the symbol meant. But further reporting into Platner's online history found evidence that he may have known about the symbol's meaning as far back as 2019. And we'll ask him about this and he'll tell us. After the news broke last week, Platner had the tattoo covered up. So, needless to say, it has been a whirlwind of a week in the Democratic primary for Maine's Senate. Platner is facing multiple Democratic opponents in that race, including Maine's sitting governor, who was encouraged to run by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. And there was a time when these kinds of early campaign controversies or scandals or past comments would be enough for either voters or incumbent Democrats or outside groups, or all of them to push a candidate out of the race. But the reaction to Graham Platner has been remarkably different. I mean, for starters, there's the response from several of his would be Democratic Senate colleagues across the ideological spectrum.

[Senator Jeff Merkley]

Graham has made a lot of mistakes in his life. He's had a very long journey to the place where he is today. But he's owned those mistakes, owned up to them, and he's evolved.

[Jerry]

He sounds like a huge human being to me. A human being who made mistakes, recognizes them, and is very open about it.

[Graham Platner]

He went into a dark period in his life. I suspect that Graham Platner is not the only American to have gone through a dark period.

[Jen Psaki]

That's fair. I mean, then there's the response from Maine Democratic voters. At least one poll, which was taken after his Reddit comments were revealed, but before his tattoo came to light, found Platner leading his closest Democratic opponent by a whopping 34 points. And just yesterday, Plattner held a town hall in Damascata, Maine. He'll tell me if I pronounced that incorrectly. A town with a population of less than 2,300 people. Around 700 people showed up to that town hall, nearly one third of the town's population. That is, after everything I just said has been made public. And Platner made it clear that the audience, to the audience, that he plans to stay in the race. Here's what he said.

[Graham Platner]

As this gets hard, as my name gets dragged through the mud, as I get accused of being things I am not and never have been, I have to remind myself that I have no right to quit.

[Jen Psaki]

And at least one local reporter covering the race claims that he cannot find a single Maine voter who has changed their assessment of Platner since the news came to light. So where does this race stand now? And what does Glenn Platner have to say for himself about all of this? He's going to join me here to answer those questions and more right after the break. And joining me now is Maine Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner. So, Graham, I just. I just laid out everything that's happened since we spoke a couple of weeks ago, or everything that's happened publicly, I should say. All of the offensive Reddit posts that have come to light, the tattoo that resembled Nazi imagery that came to light. I did note that you, of course, apologize for the Reddit post, and you've covered up since. Covered up the tattoo, I would note. One of the things that struck me is that you have seemed. I know you're new to the political world and that is appealing to people out there, but you've seemed a little surprised that there's been a strong reaction to these things that have come to surface. So let me just start by asking you, did you really not think that any of this would be an issue when you launched your campaign for Senate?

[Graham Platner]

Oh, my Internet history I assumed was gonna get poured through. I mean, I'm a regular guy who has lived a. I'm not going to say a regular life, but I was certainly not ever preparing to run for the United States Senate. And so I spent, you know, many years commenting on the Internet. I figured somebody was going to go through all that stuff at some point that I expected. I will say the tattoo, I did not expect the tattoo thing. I've had it for 20 years. I've gone through multiple security clearances. I've been taking my shirt off in front of other people and taking photographs the entire time that had never come up. That one very much caught me by surprise, especially considering that I spent my entire life essentially hating Nazis. So to have that accusation thrown My way, that was not expected. But my Internet history, I assume that somebody would pour through that. And at the end of the day, I look back throughout all the comments I made, there are certainly things that I highly disagree with these days, but they came from times in my life where I had. I had not had the experiences I have now, and I had not had the ability to grow and to change like I have now. And I. Yeah, that did not surprise me in the slightest.

[Jen Psaki]

I know you're trying to move forward from this, but there's still been some discrepancy kind of about when you knew your tattoo was problematic. There was an anonymous source that said a couple of years ago, you may have known. Your former political director said this summer you recognized that it was problematic. So help, help clarify for us. When did you know and recognize it was a problematic symbol and how did that come to light for you?

[Graham Platner]

We were contacted by the New York Times, I believe a few weeks ago or two weeks ago now. It's. Sorry.

[Jen Psaki]

So in September. October. October.

[Graham Platner]

October, yeah. Just. Just a few. Just I think two weeks back now, we were contacted. We were asked if I had tattoo that had, you know, Nazi overtones. I have had this thing for ages and it had never once come up. We, at that point we looked at it, we saw what they sent, and, you know, it's. It's a stylized skull and crossbones. Stylized skull and crossbones are very popular with military units for obvious reasons. But it looked quite similar. And at that point, I don't want something like that. My body that is going to make people think I have any kind of ideological similarity to something that I'm. That is essentially so antithetical to my politics. So I was more than happy to get it covered up as soon as.

[Jen Psaki]

So you learned in October, and as soon as you learned, you got it covered up immediately? Within days. Within a day. What was the process there?

[Graham Platner]

It was a busy weekend when we found out. I didn't get to it, I think, until that Tuesday, but yeah, it was within a few days.

[Jen Psaki]

Now, your former political director, who I know is no longer with the campaign, said you knew in the summer. Are you saying that she is lying? I guess about when you knew that this was a problematic symbol.

[Graham Platner]

That is not true. And she also wasn't involved in the campaign in the summer. So, yeah, that's just not. That is not accurate.

[Jen Psaki]

Let me ask you. I mean, you have now apologized, you have covered up your tattoo. You are getting exposed to, I guess, when people dig into your past and find things about you and bring them to light. Is there anything about your past, about things you've written, about, things that you worry could come to light? Since you said you knew about the Reddit post that you wanna talk about now and put in context so people out there know?

[Graham Platner]

No. I mean, I'm pretty sure the reason they led with Internet comments and the tattoo I got in the Marine Corps is because this is what they have. I've lived. I have not. Again, I've not lived a boring life, but I have lived a fairly simple life. I've never been close to money and power. I've never had the ability to screw people over. I'm sure at some point in my life, I've written things on the Internet that I don't agree with today that maybe has not been found. I'm sure somebody will dig it up. My answer to all of it will be the same. I've. I've had a journey. It took a while to get here. I was certainly not always the person I am today. I also understand that it was through that journey that I got to where I am, and I'm very proud of who I am today.

[Jen Psaki]

You've said part of this, and we just heard you kind of allude to this, is you want people to forgive, to understand that you've been through a journey. You have talked openly about serving our country, about some PTSD that you've journeyed through, about seeking therapy. Help us understand how you think you've grown and what has prompted you to really grow. You know, for any skeptic out there who's thinking this was only four years ago, how can you really be different from what you posted then?

[Graham Platner]

Well, one, I will say the posts from four years ago are not the ones I'm most ashamed of. I'd like to make that clear. Four years ago, during COVID during the BLM protests, I absolutely was angry on the Internet at the state of things. I also, at that time was only about a year and a half back from my last trip to Afghanistan, and I was feeling very disillusioned with the larger, I would say, system because of my interaction with, frankly, the military industrial complex in Afghanistan in 2018. I, I think that if we are going to have a politics that is going to be representative of regular people, if we are going to have a politics that's going to allow us to move past the polarization and frankly, the division that we find ourselves in, we really need to understand that people are capable of. Of changing. We need to keep hope alive that people that we may disagree with today, that we can find common ground with. If you listen to what I've been saying on the campaign trail across the state, that's what I'm trying to talk about. It is important to me that we realize that most of us, most Americans, have far more in common than we think we do. And we need to give each other grace and we need to give each other space to grow and to evolve. Because if we can't do that, then I'm not really sure what the purpose of any of this is. And I think it really. I know that people can change because I know that I changed. I know that I turned into a different person. I know that, frankly, by going to therapy and realizing that I need to be more open both with myself and with other people, recognizing that that many people are struggling and they're just looking for answers. And you need to remain compassionate and empathetic and open to the fact that they are capable of change and improvement just like everybody else is.

[Jen Psaki]

Karen Platner, don't go anywhere. We have to take a very quick break. That's how it works, as you know, in television. I have more to ask you about. We'll be right back. We are back with Maine Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner. I just wanted to play a moment from your event last night. I talked about this a little bit earlier in the show. You had 700 people show up to a town that's about 2,300 people. So this was just a moment from it, and we'll talk about it on the other side.

[Jerry]

I would love to be out protesting. I would love to be out knocking on doors. But I'll be honest, a person like me could get killed right now in this country. I believe in you, and I believe that you are a better man than you once were in the past, because I'm a better person than I was when I. In the past. If I. If I stand with you, will you fight with me? Will you stand up for me?

[Graham Platner]

I firmly believe that every single American has the right to live the life they want to live in their own body as they see fit. I also fully recognize that as a cease white male with a bunch of tattoos and a long combat record, that I get to put myself out there in ways that other people don't. I just want to tell you this is why I'm doing this. I am doing this because I know that I can say things. I know that I can have conversations. I know that I can knock on doors and places that a lot of other people can't have access to that a lot of other people won't feel safe in. That is a responsibility that I feel, and it is why I am doing this. And I just want to say. I just want to say thank you. Because I know how hard this is. Yeah. I just want to say that, yes, I will absolutely stand next to you. And if we ever have to go knock doors together, I'm happy to stand by your side.

[Jen Psaki]

I showed that because it was a really powerful moment from your event last night. But I think people watching who might be hearing about all those offensive posts and the tattoo for the first time might be surprised to learn that at this moment, your poll numbers seem to be holding and big crowds are still showing up to see you. And I just wonder why you think that is. Why do you think that you've been able to weather all of this. This, at least for now.

[Graham Platner]

I think because, honestly, the people of Maine. The people of Maine can see when somebody is full of it and when they aren't. As you know, I've been all over the state, so that's the best part of doing this. I've been able to hold town halls from the most southern places all the way up to the Canadian border, from New Hampshire all the way over to the coastline. And everywhere I go, I get to talk to Mainers and I get to hear about what it is that matters in their lives. And for so many people right now, they just want to connect the politics that is real, a politics that, like, is accessible and looks and sounds like something they can understand. Not kind of the horse race, not the negative ads, not the negative, not just like the general negativity which we're all so used to now. It's also, I think for a lot of people, it feels very aesthetic and empty. People want to hear about policy. They want to hear about what is wrong and what we're going to do to change it. And that's what I've been doing. And I'm going to continue going all over the state and connecting with an immense amount of Mainers, because when you talk to people one on one, they can tell whether you're lying to them or not. And I think they see what's going on right now, and they just see it as the machine hitting back. And many of them are just frankly, kind of rallying and saying that, no, we need to have a better politics. We need to have a politics that lets people grow. We need to have a politics that lets regular people into it. And I think that's why we're just maintaining an immense amount of support.

[Jen Psaki]

You said to that point. I mean, you also said at your event last night that you're running as a Democrat despite my party trying to destroy my life. And there's no question I've talked about this on the show and otherwise. I mean, you had Chuck Schumer encouraged the governor to get in the race to run against you. There's an outside fundraising committee. That happens in other races, but that certainly is a challenge. You're running as an outsider for sure, which is probably an advantage for you. But campaigns, I mean, they use opposition research. It can get very ugly. But these were comments you made as you said you knew they could come to light a tattoo on your body. And when you say the party is trying to destroy your life, it sounds like a little bit like you're trying to shirk responsibility for things that you did and comments that you made.

[Graham Platner]

Not in the slightest. I mean, for the record, I've not shied away from anything. I've been. I frankly, have been doing nothing but interviews for the past week and a half on exactly this topic. I've talked about it at length with. With multiple news outlets. It's not that. It's. It's the fact that it was never. No one was ever curious. You know, nobody ever asked me, like, about where, like, why I would have felt those things in the past or if I am the same person today. You know, nobody had any curiosity about why would a guy who's been like, an avowed anti fascist his entire life have a tattoo that looks like something some fascists use? I mean, the answer was because I was the Marine Corps and I got it with some other Marines, but nobody was curious. It just all came out as if this, like this kind of wave, you know, all at a very specific moment in this race. And it is. I know I'm getting into politics. I know it's a dirty game. I understand that. I have also lived. I live a regular life down here. And it's really interesting to have this whole power structure essentially turn on to try to drag my name through the mud. It's a surreal experience, if I'm going to be entirely honest. But I'm not trying to shirk responsibility in the slightest. It's why I've been happy to talk about it. We could have done something else. And I honestly believe that talking about my journey to where I am now is one of the best things I can do because I can show to people, why I got my politics. Why do I care about universal health care? Why do I care about ending foreign military like adventurism? Why do I care about expanding child care and taxing corporations so we can help rebuild American infrastructure? I mean, I didn't come up with these values. I earned them through my life and I got here through the struggles that brought me to this point. And I want to talk about that.

[Jen Psaki]

Graham Platner, I appreciate you being here tonight. Thank you so much.

[Graham Platner]

Thank you very much, Jen.

[Jen Psaki]

Coming up, we saw a world class display of projection today from House Speaker Mike Johnson. I'll explain it all when we come back. Donald Trump was feeling extra proud of himself yesterday because he passed a really difficult test, one that he bragged had some very hard questions. Questions like name these animals and draw a clock. Good job, Mr. President. For his part, House Speaker Mike Johnson held a press conference earlier today where he rattled through a litany of accusations against a former president seemingly completely unaware of just how close to home his critiques were Hitting.

[Mike Johnson]

Job for quite some time and everybody knows it. And there was a cover up. The people around him who were using, they would give him scripts to follow. They would point him literally in the direction, stand here, sir, wave like this. He pardoned categories of violent criminals and turned them loose on the streets. You can't allow a president to check out and have unelected, unaccountable, faceless people making massive decisions for the country.

[Jen Psaki]

Maybe someone needs to ask Mike Johnson to name a few animals. Maybe that does it for me. Today you can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.

[Jerry]

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