← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: Donald Trump is addicted to power; planning, not so much
00:41:38
Jen Psaki proposes that Donald Trump is motivated by a the rush of making himself feel powerful, which explains why so many of his actions don't appear to have rational, principled justifications, and also why so many of his actions have no follow-up plan for dealing with the messes he makes.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:45]
Host (Jen Psaki)
So Donald Trump, we know this. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he doesn't take any recreational drugs that we know of. But Donald Trump has a different kind of addiction, I guess we could call it. He's addicted to feeling like he is powerful, even if he's not really powerful. Often he's not. He lives, lives for the dopamine rush that comes with big public displays that make him feel strong and important actions that feed his fragile ego and quell all of his insecurities. And there are many. I mean, he kind of suggested as much last month, saying out loud when he publicly admitted to having a possessive and addictive type personality. Just the kind of person you want in the White House right now. Trump craves the high that comes from the public displays of power so much that he doesn't concern himself with the consequences of his actions. Because by the time the dust finally settles, he's already chasing his next dopamine hit. And Donald Trump's decision to invade a foreign country and arrest its president is kind of a perfect example of this. I mean, he relished the images of the dramatic overnight raids who captured Nicolas Maduro, who I would note is not a good guy. He's a very bad guy and very corrupt guy. But still, Trump loved the scene of Maduro being perp walked off a plane in his tracksuit into an American prison. He even told his favorite Fox morning program, quote, I watched it like I was watching a television show. The speed, the violence. It was an amazing thing. That's the President of the United States, everybody saying that. See, for him, this is all about the spectacle, about the images of toughness and Conquest. It's why he's obsessed with the idea that the US Is now going to take their oil. It's a fantasy he's been fixated on for almost 40 years. Seizing oil wherever the US conflicts its military might.
- [02:44]
Donald Trump
We ought to go in and take over their oil. I have no doubt about it. Other people would say, oh, Donald, that might start a war. We're going to have a war through weakness. You go in, you take over. You take over the oil. Let them have the rest of their country. We just want the oil.
- [02:56]
Senator Mark Warner
Why aren't we getting it?
- [02:57]
Donald Trump
Why don't we get some of it? Why don't we just take over the oil? We should take it over. You have to go in and take the oil.
- [03:03]
Senator Mark Warner
Knock the hell out of them, take the oil.
- [03:05]
Nancy Pelosi
We thereby take their wealth. We take all their wealth.
- [03:08]
Donald Trump
If we're going to get out, take the oil. The great oil companies, they'll rebuild that sucker brand new. It'll be beautiful. And I'd ring it and I'd take the oil.
- [03:17]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Okay, so Trump has clearly fantasized about doing this for a very, very long time. That goes back many, many years. Well, tonight, in a post untruth social, Trump announced that Venezuela would be turning over between 30 to 50 million barrels of, quote, high quality, sanctioned oil to the United States of America. And that money from that oil will be, in his words, controlled by him. Now, there's so many questions here. For context, though, 30 to 50 million barrels of oil is roughly equivalent to the amount of oil the US Produces every three to four days. So this is not exactly a huge windfall to start with. But setting that aside, how is this supposed to work? What legal basis does the US have to seize any country's oil? What does he mean when he says it will be controlled by him? And what does Venezuela get in return, which I expect a lot of national security reporters are looking into right now. None of this feels particularly well thought out. Lots of questions. Trump doesn't care, though, because just like with everything else he does, once the high of the announcement wears off, there is no plan for what comes next. Which is why three days after their attack on Venezuela, the Trump administration still hasn't given us any clear indication of what their long term plan is for the country they're apparently pillaging for oil. I mean, the morning after the raid on Maduro's home, Trump was asked, the morning of the raid, I should say Trump was asked, who is in charge of Venezuela? And this is what he said.
- [04:42]
Donald Trump
It's largely going to be for a period of time, the people that are standing right behind me, we're going to be running it, we're going to be bringing it back.
- [04:51]
Host (Jen Psaki)
So the people standing behind the president, you can see them there. You recognize all of them in that moment were Trump adviser Stephen Miller, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. And in the days since those men got that assignment from Donald Trump, while they stood right behind him, they have made pretty clear they are not exactly interested in the assignment. I mean, asked about this process, his role in the process, yesterday Stephen Miller passed the buck to Marco Rubio.
- [05:20]
Commercial Announcer
Stephen, you were part of that group, the select group that the President said is his staff that is running Venezuela. What exactly are your day to day responsibilities?
- [05:32]
Host (Jen Psaki)
The President of the United States has.
- [05:33]
Jeff Duncan
Asked Secretary Rubio, who also happens to be his National Security adviser, todirectly, of course, under the President's close guidance and direction, to be the lead on this process.
- [05:49]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Who, me? Was I standing there when he said that? I think the President was talking about my buddy Marco Rubio. Over to you, Secretary Rubio.
- [06:00]
Nancy Pelosi
Mr. Secretary, who is in charge?
- [06:03]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Are you running Venezuela right now?
- [06:09]
Marco Rubio
Yeah, I mean, I keep people, you know, fixating on that. Here's the bottom line on it is we expect to see changes in Venezuela.
- [06:16]
Nancy Pelosi
Who are those people who will be running the country specifically?
- [06:21]
Marco Rubio
Well, it's, it's not running the. Concerning policy. The policy with regards to this. We want Venezuela to move in a certain direction.
- [06:27]
Senator Mark Warner
So is the United States run Venezuela right now?
- [06:32]
Marco Rubio
Well, I've explained once again. I'll do it one more time. What we are running is the direction that this is going to move, moving forward.
- [06:38]
Senator Mark Warner
Are you running Venezuela right now?
- [06:42]
Marco Rubio
Jordan, I've explained again that the leverage that we have here is the leverage of the quarantine. So that is a Department of War operation.
- [06:50]
Host (Jen Psaki)
People are so fixated on this. I'm not really running it. This is really a Department of War operation. Okay, over to you, Pete Hegseth. Does that mean maybe you're in charge? Well, it means we set the terms.
- [07:05]
Senator Mark Warner
President Trump sets the terms, and ultimately.
- [07:08]
Host (Jen Psaki)
He'Ll decide what the iterations are of that. So Trump loved the future of Venezuela. To his three lackeys on the podium. Stephen Miller says Marco Rubio is in charge. Marco Rubio says this is a Defense Department operation. And Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth passed the buck back to Donald Trump. That's what just happened there. Nobody wants to actually deal with the fallout of Trump's decisions, but none of that buck passing has prompted Trump to maybe pause for a moment and make a plan with his national security team, with Congress on how exactly this is all going to go down in the country he just attacked, including what happens to the 30 million people who live there, including instead, he's already moved on and started searching for, you guessed it, his big next dopamine hit, singling out the next countries he may target next.
- [07:58]
Donald Trump
Colombia is very sick, too, run by a sick man who likes making cocaine and selling it to the United States. And he's not going to be doing it very long.
- [08:06]
Host (Jen Psaki)
So there will be an operation by.
- [08:08]
Donald Trump
The U.S. it sounds good to me. By the way, you have to do something with Mexico. Mexico has to get their act together. We need Greenland from a national security situation. Cuba is ready to fall, you know. Yes, Cuba looks like ready to fall.
- [08:25]
Host (Jen Psaki)
I've never seen Senator Graham so excited, really, about anything. But look, the fate of Venezuela after Maduro is still a huge unknown. There are a lot, a lot of questions. But Trump's already looking for his next conquest, the next Latin American leader he can topple or a Danish territory he can seize to make himself feel big and strong. And none of this is new for Donald Trump. I mean, we have seen just how destructive his insatiable cravings for power and attention can be. It's basically been the theme throughout his time in public life, and it has made for some very dark moments in this country. Today, of course, marks the fifth anniversary of the January 6th siege on the US Capitol, the worst attack on our nation's capital in more than 200 years. And it's worth remembering what prompted that attack. Trump's fragile ego, his uncontrollable urge to hold onto power and stay in the limelight. That's the reason he whipped up his supporters into a frenzy that day, with no concern for what the consequences of that decision would be. As Special Counsel Jack Smith told Congress last month, the January 6th attack does not happen without Donald Trump. And Trump's addiction to power is why January 6th happened and why he has never been able to let it go. It is why he pardoned or commuted the sentences of every single rioter from that day. It's why today the administration unveiled an official White House webpage selling a completely fabricated, revisionist history about that day, one that refers to the rioters as patriots who marched to the Capitol and blames Capitol Police for escalating tensions, which is insane and offensive. It even accuses Trump's own vice president, who the mob called to be hanged of an act of cowardice and sabotage. And, of course, it falsely and ludicrously blames then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for security lapses at the Capitol, which, in addition to being completely inaccurate, sort of undermines the whole idea that the rioters were themselves patriots. So think about that as well. Today, House Democrats held their own January 6th hearing to set the record straight about what really happened that day. It featured testimony from police officers who defended the Capitol, a reformed January 6 rioter who takes accountability for her actions that day. And she gave an incredibly powerful testimony. And, of course, Nancy Pelosi herself, who responded to the allegations that the Trump administration lobbed at her.
- [10:45]
Nancy Pelosi
The president's always saying to me, well, you, You. You weren't ready. I wasn't ready for a President of the United States. Yeah. I wasn't ready for a President of the United States to incite an insurrection against the Congress of the United States, against the Constitution, against the capital of the United States. No. Who would be ready for that? But we are ready to save our democracy. The times have found us to do that.
- [11:11]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Donald Trump is what she wasn't ready for. It's what none of us were ready for. But now we know exactly who he is. A man who is so addicted to power, he'll topple any person or institution or country. He can hold. He can get. He can to hold onto it. Joining me now is House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, Democrat from California. It's great to see you. I know this day is so difficult for everybody who lives in this city. And I thought of you a lot today. I knew I was going to talk to you, but just, just given everything that happened, everything we all watched, and now we have the current House speaker refusing to put a commemorative plaque. We have Donald Trump, who's, of course, president again, still lying about 2020, pushing this absolutely offensive and ludicrous website. How is this sitting with you five years later?
- [12:01]
Nancy Pelosi
Well, today is an emotional day for all of us. Five years since the President of the United States incited an insurrection on the Capitol, on the Congress, on the Constit, on our ability to honor our oath of office, to certify the election of the president by way of certifying the Electoral College. But what's good about today is that so much of the testimony of members and of guests was about how brave our men and women and our Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police, Washington, D.C. how brave they were, the lives they saved. What was sad is that this president refused to send the National Guard. He keeps saying Oh, I wanted it, but they didn't. With the mayor and Nancy, they didn't want it. His own Secretary of Defense testified under oath that that was not true, but he is not under oath. So he just lies, lies, lies, lies. So it's. But what's important is our democracy. What happened then was horrible. Was horrible. Confederate fags under Lincoln's dome, the dome that Lincoln buil while he was unifying, holding the unity of our country together, our union together. And this president, for some reason, decided that he was going to incite an insurrection, lie about it, because he couldn't face the fact that he was not elected President of the United States. It's his megalomania that for. Just goes into everything he does, including some of his actions abroad.
- [13:43]
Host (Jen Psaki)
And yet all these years later, I mean, I remember the days after. I remember watching you lead in that moment and in the days after, you heard from so many Republicans who spoke out in the moment, and they've seemed to kind of lose their voices, is one way of diplomatically putting it, but not bravely speak out as they should, or just not speak out and say the truth. How much do you think that has led us to where we are at this moment?
- [14:07]
Nancy Pelosi
Well, I think it has a great deal to do with it. When we were asking for the National Guard, The Republican Mitch McConnell was right there, using even a profanity to say, send them right away again and again and again. And the President wouldn't do it. And yet, when it was time to have the President answer for his actions, Mitch McConnell folded and just went down a different path. But again, we don't agonize. We organize for making the future better. I wear the future on my sleeve or under my sleeve. I have faith, hope, and love. I say, if you believe in love, in the goodness of the American people, that gives people hope. So rather than just focusing on him. But she does this in order to get attention. We want to show that the American people are good people and that our will honor the vision of our founders. We'll respect the courage of our men and women in uniform, and we will be faithful to the aspirations of our children. And we will not let his lies take us away from that.
- [15:15]
Host (Jen Psaki)
No. And we want to keep working to preserve the memory of what happened that day. I wanted to play part of Jack Smith's testimony. It was so incredibly powerful. I've been saying we didn't all even know the sound of his voice, really, until they shared this all. But let's play that. I want to talk to you about it. On the other side, the evidence here made clear that President Trump was, by.
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Senator Mark Warner
A large measure, the most culpable and.
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Host (Jen Psaki)
Most responsible person in this conspiracy. These crimes were committed for his benefit. The attack that happened at the Capitol as part of this case does not happen without him.
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Nancy Pelosi
That's right.
- [15:57]
Host (Jen Psaki)
It is so powerful to hear that. It's been five years. It's important for people to hear that. I was, of course, working in the Biden administration at the time. I have great affection for Attorney General Merrick Garland. It was a tough choice he made in how he pursued the strategy. You know, he went after and they decided to go after the insurrectionists first to build the case against them. It feels to me watching that, or this is what I was thinking about at the time. Jack Smith ran out of time. He ran out of time. Do you wish, looking back, that there had been a reversal of the strategy, that they had gone after Donald Trump earlier than they decided to?
- [16:33]
Nancy Pelosi
Well, I don't want to relitigate what happened in that period of time, except to say that when we had the January 6th committee, we provided the data. Now, nothing as conclusive as the. As Jack Smith did, and that was part of our testimony today as well. Just people quoting him. Quite a remarkable presentation he made in his testimony Earlier.
- [16:58]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Earlier.
- [16:58]
Nancy Pelosi
But what we did in the Congress was to have a bipartisan committee that established the facts based on testimony of 99% of the people were Republicans in elective or appointive office. Maybe 2 of the people who were poll watchers, I don't know what party they were to, but everybody else were Republicans. So the data was there, the facts were there, the violations were there, and we presented that. How they go around. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what the validation that they have to have of all that we presented. But the fact is that this is not over. A price will be paid. And today we saw such beautiful testimony. And it was mentioned, though, the person who was there in the Capitol and she said, I did wrong. I did wrong. And she would not be pardoned by the president because she said, you did wrong. So in any case, this isn't over yet. But let's just remember the Times found our founders to just put together this great democracy. Thank God they made the Constitution amendable so we could ever have expanding freedom in our country. Our men and women at Lincoln. Lincoln. Lincoln saved our Union. The Times found him. Now the Times have found us. And rather than just prey on what he has to say next, because that's why he lies so much so he gets the attention that he wants for lying. We're here to respect the goodness of the American people. As we go forward.
- [18:40]
Host (Jen Psaki)
I expect other people are going to be wanting and loving those bracelets. We're going to take a very quick break. There's a lot more to discuss with you, including the year ahead and your incredible legacy Congress. We'll be right back.
- [18:54]
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Host (Jen Psaki)
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Donald Trump
Had the.
- [19:28]
Host (Jen Psaki)
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Senator Mark Warner
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Host (Jen Psaki)
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- [20:01]
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- [20:03]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Wait maybe what time again? While they figure that out, I rev up Chumba Casino play on your browser. No downloads necessary. No need to negotiate. Why wait on them when you can spin for yourself? Play now@jumbaccasino.com let's jumba no purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law CTNC's 21/plus sponsored by Jumba Casino. We are back with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. So many things to ask you about, but you know what it's like to be in charge of a caucus when there's a slim majority. It's looking like as of this moment, unfortunately there was a Douglas Malfa of California lost his life. An Indiana Republican Congressman Jim Baird suffered a serious accident. So right now it looks like Speaker Mike Johnson has a one seat majority currently for now, very small. What do you see as the impact of that? What are the challenges as you look to how Congress is going to run over the next year?
- [21:10]
Nancy Pelosi
Well, we'll see. We have two governors that have been elected and so we have to replace replace them. But the fact is, whatever it is, in the near term and within the year before now, one year from now, Hakeem Jeffries will be the speaker of the House. The Democrats will win the House, hopefully the Senate as well. And the Republicans know that. And that's why you see some change in behavior in terms of discharge petitions, whether it's on health care, healthcare, I even hate to bring up the other subject, but Republicans signing up on those so that we can have votes on the floor and action taken in that way. But the fact is that what's happening now is that Congress has almost been abolished by the Republicans. The speaker has surrendered his title to the President of the United States. The Senate too, I mean, they practically are non existent in terms of meeting the needs of the American people from the Republican side. So what people have to see is that we're in a situation where we're about affordability. We're about people having access to quality health care. We're about the Republicans in their big stinking, lousy, ugly bill which you describe, some describe differently, have taken away the subsidies, have taken millions of people off of Medicaid, half a trillion dollars out of Medicare. That's what we should be talking about, not spending billions of dollars to go into Venezuela. The president of Venezuela is a terrible person. He's a ruthless, terrible person. It's not about whether he's worth the trouble. It's about what our priorities are in our country. And if we want to stop the use of drugs and coming into the country, we have to stop the use of drugs in our country. And the best way to do that is by treatment on demand. It's the most humane and the cheapest way to solve that problem. So let's you know that we want this White House and this Congress to focus on meeting the kitchen table needs of the American people. That's what they should be doing, not sending money to billions of dollars to Argentina. Billions of dollars to go into. It's going to be very expensive when we see how much it costs to go into Venezuela. And by the way, just to end on the Venezuela thing, he's bringing the president of Venezuela here while he's pardoning Hernandez, who's a thug from Honduras. One thing they have in common is both of them. Both countries are a source of money to this administration and their friends. Oil. Oil in Venezuela and all kinds of things in Honduras.
- [24:07]
Host (Jen Psaki)
You have been kind of a driver of making sure Democrats and others are talking about what they're doing and that people are paying attention to it. Whether it's fighting for affordable health care and the extension of these Obamacare tax credits or many other things that are on the Democratic agenda. There has been, I don't know if you saw this. Trump said today that if Democrats win back when in the midterms, they'll find a way to impeach him. First of all, impeachment is about what the president does. It has nothing to do with politics. But you've been through two that had good reason. Do you think he has reason to be worried? And do you think pursuing an impeachment, even if it's warranted, is worth Democrats time?
- [24:43]
Nancy Pelosi
If the. As I've said, there's only one person responsible for the impeachment of Donald Trump, and that's Donald Trump. He gave us no choice. He crossed the line here and there. The fact is what we're here to do is meet the needs of the American people. If he goes to a place, that's a different story. But it isn't something you go looking for, searching for. No, it's not that. But he's.
- [25:07]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Is Venezuela something people should watch?
- [25:09]
Nancy Pelosi
You know what? Let's not. What are we talking about that for? Let's talk about winning the House and shining a bright light on what he is doing and turn instead of spending the public dollar on meeting people's needs, instead spending to go into Venezuela, now he's talking about Cuba and Colombia and Mexico and Greenland. What is this? It's insanity. It really is. I think the reason he's flirting with Greenland and disrupting NATO is to do a favor for his friend Putin. When I left his office pointing at him, remember the president here I get more requests to sign that picture than anything. I bet even better than I said to him, I'm leaving. Mr. President, I've had it with you because with you, all roads lead to Putin. So realize that this road leads to Putin as well. This is really a sad situation of a person who is suffering from something and consequently the American people will pay the price. We have to make sure they know that we are fighting for those subsidies to make. It's not just about the health of American people. It's about their financial health as well. So how do you go and say tens of millions of people off of Medicaid, half a trillion dollars out of Medicare subsidies, making it unaffordable to have health care. Oh, and by the way, we're giving a tax rate to the richest people in America who don't need it and we're spending money so they can make money in Argentina, Honduras and Venezuela.
- [26:50]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Certainly doesn't seem like a campaign slogan. I remember very distinctly the day you got the gavel. I was there. I worked at the DCCC that cycle before that was 20 years ago this year when you made history in that way. It will be, it will be almost 20 years ago next year and 40 years almost, I think. Since you've been serving, how do you think about your last year serving and what you want to accomplish over this next year?
- [27:20]
Nancy Pelosi
One thing, the only reason I'm here this year is to win the House for the Democrats and for the American people. So that's my goal, to make Hakeem, he is doing a great job. And by the way, whatever the press wants to do every night about Trump, every day, Democrats are calling into the Republican district, Republicans are calling into the Republican members and saying, don't take away my health care subsidies. So that's why you see some change in behavior is because of the grassroots of when we pass the Affordable Care act, which I thought was my major accomplishment, I think it competes a little bit with bringing the House back into action. The day that they tried to show the world that democracy doesn't work. And we said, yes, it does, we'll be there. Don't tell me I can't go back. We're going back. That was very important to wed it to January 6th. But the. But I'm a big believer in mobilization. You can, you have your message, you have all of that going. You have your policy. But the mobilization of making sure people know, as Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything. With it, you can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing. But for public sentiment to prevail, people have to know. And that's what we are doing at the grassroots level under the leadership of Hawking Jefferson, our Democratic leadership in the House, working with the Senate and hopefully have both houses in a victory. But we will. We will win. And as you asked me about my last year, that's my purpose, is to make sure that that happens. And I have no doubt that it will.
- [29:02]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Well, as long as I've been involved in politics, never bet against Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. And we will continue to talk a lot about healthcare on this show, I promise you. Thank you for being here.
- [29:13]
Nancy Pelosi
Well, that's what matters most in lives of the American people, not the behavior of a thug like Maduro. He's really a thug. And the people of Venezuela have been so mistreated by Chavez first and now this guy and whoever the vice president is. It's even getting harsher, they say, in Venezuela. So let's prioritize, be American. Let's recognize the goodness of the American people. Believing in that gives us hope and that's what we are about. Absolutely.
- [29:45]
Host (Jen Psaki)
A perfect place to end. Speaker Emerita Pelosi, thank you so much for being here with us.
- [29:49]
Commercial Announcer
Thank you.
- [29:49]
Nancy Pelosi
Thank you.
- [29:50]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Okay, coming up, Donald Trump. We just talked about this, but his threats around Greenland are kind of getting less and less funny by the hour. We're going to talk about that. Senator Mark Warner is the vice chairman of the Senate, Vice chair of the of the Senate Intelligence Committee. I'm sorry. And I'm going to ask him all about that. What the heck is going on here? When we come back.
- [30:13]
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- [31:01]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Had the time of my life A I never felt this way before.
- [31:08]
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- [31:19]
Senator Mark Warner
And I owe it all to you.
- [31:23]
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- [31:32]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Today the White House issued an unbelievable statement. I guess you could say that a lot, but this was one saying, quote, president Trump has made it well known that acquiring Greenland is a national security priority of the United States. The president and his team are discussing a range of options to pursue this important foreign policy goal. And of course, utilizing the US Military is always an option at the commander in Chief's disposal. So shortly after the White House issued that military threat against the territory of a NATO ally, the New York Times reported that in a closed door briefing today, Secretary of State Marco Rubio told lawmakers that Trump plans to buy Greenland. Trump has reportedly gone as far as asking his aides to actually draft a plan for how the US could acquire the territory. So is the plan to invade Greenland, is it to buy it? I don't know. Frankly, I don't know if Anyone knows? We still don't even really know what the Trump administration's plan is in Venezuela. It's been more than three days, remember, since Trump used the US Military to capture Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife. But it wasn't until last night that the Trump administration started briefing Congress. For roughly two hours last night, top Trump administration officials briefed the bipartisan group of top congressional leaders and Intelligence committee chairs known as the Gang of Eight. Now, that meeting was classified and behind closed doors, but luckily for us, a member, a key member of the Gang of Eight, who was in that meeting is joining me now. Senator Mark Warner is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and a member of the Gang of Eight. You and I have talked about Venezuela before. We've talked about the crazy national security policy of this administration. And it's important to, like, kind of wade through what's important and what's not. So let me just start by asking for your reaction to the White House threatening military force in Greenland, or I guess Trump reportedly asking aides to come up with a plan for how to buy it. What do you make of that?
- [33:27]
Senator Mark Warner
Well, Jen, I gotta address that, but I also gotta say I saw the last part of the segment with Speaker Pelosi in a. What a great American. Even the Republicans will acknowledge she was unparalleled in her ability to be speaker. And boy, if there was ever a contrast between her and the current speaker. And we all owe her a great debt of gratitude in terms of the issue. I sat through two and a half hours yesterday. First of all, I agree with Speaker Pelosi. Maduro was a bad guy. Venezuela's better. The region's better without him there. And the military. The execution of this operation, 150 planes, all services, was extraordinary. But the precedent this set. We'll get to Greenland in a second. But the idea that America or any other nation can take out another foreign leader because we believe he violated our laws, by the way, which is undermined by the fact that the former Honduran president, which was charged with the same stuff that got prosecuted and indicted and committed under American law, he pardoned former President Hernandez. But the idea that we can go in and snatch somebody, you know, not that Russia and China need extra reasons, but Russia could snatch Zelensky, saying Zelensky broke Russian law. China could take over Taiwan because for 40 years Chinese law says Taiwan's a breakaway province. You know, any big country could go after a smaller country because they say the leader of the adjacent country is somehow broke. Their Laws, an awful president in an already chaotic world. Now, in terms of the Greenland, you know, that was a joke the first couple of months. But the idea that the President of the United States is actually threatening action against a NATO ally, it's beyond baffling. The idea that, you know, if you want to talk about completely destroying America's reputation and our alliances, you take this action. And I hope we get to talk about what's going to happen next in Venezuela. I got some views there. But this is beyond the theater of the absurd. And we are now playing with what has always been our country's biggest asset, one that we abide by some rule of order, which, by the way, Trump has tried to reinstitute spheres of influence and getting rid of 75 years of international order, and now going as outrageous as suddenly saying we're going to threaten a NATO ally by taking their part of their country or part of their possessions if necessary, by force. It's, it's mind boggling.
- [35:58]
Host (Jen Psaki)
It certainly is. And I think you've reminded people watching this is as crazy as it sounds to them. I want to hear your views on Venezuela and I want to ask you, as part of that, you probably saw this tonight, President Trump posted on social media saying that, quote, the interim authorities in Venezuela will be turning over between 30 and 50 million barrels of high quality sanctioned oil to the United States of America. He continued that that oil will be sold at its market price and that money will be controlled by Trump himself personally. That is obviously part of what's happening with Venezuela. What do you make of that? Are you clear about what their plan is here at all after this briefing you had yesterday?
- [36:38]
Senator Mark Warner
Well, first of all, the whole reason our government was set up, not going back 250 years, was we were tired and didn't want rule by a single authoritarian figure. In the case of the 1770s, it was George III. And now Donald Trump is trying to remake himself in that image, or the image of Putin or Xi or an authoritarian figure. The idea that we are controlling Venezuela, that Donald Trump's calling the shots, we do control the economic inflow and outflow. And if we can cut off the Venezuelan oil, which is the lifeblood of their country, we can bring them to heel. But how do we do that? The reason we do that, are able to do that right now is we got 20% of our total fleet off the coast of Venezuela. Many of these ships have been deployed from Norfolk, Virginia, my home state. Most of the sailors and soldiers are from my home state. The idea that we're going to make, remember the president said everything in Venezuela is not going to cost the American taxpayer. It's going to be paid for by the Venezuelans. Remember what Bush said about Iraqi oil in 2003. But even if we give the administration the benefit of the doubt and they're going to control and take the funds from Venezuelan oil, the Venezuelan oil infrastructure has been so mismanaged by Maduro that it would take between three to five years to build that back up to the 4 million barrels of oil to export on a daily basis, which they used to about 15 years ago. Are we saying that 20% of our country's navy is going to be sitting off the coast of Venezuela blocking oil tankers from getting in and out so we can extract that money from them? That doesn't pass the smell test. That is an absurd theory. And the idea that we're going to somehow control from offshore, I mean, Jen, this is a road towards, you know, my fear is potentially boots on the ground. My fear is American soldiers and sailors in harm's way. I got parents calling me saying I don't want my kid on the streets of Caracas. And for what? America going in for taking a country's oil. We've seen that story many times in our history and it doesn't work out. And last point, just, you know, for 75 years, I think under Democrats and Republicans, we realize we shouldn't treat Central America and South America as kind of as an imperial power, as a colonial power. We need to treat those countries with some level of respect. That all went out the window on Saturday where Donald Trump says, no, we're going to reassert dominion over the whole region, which not only is bad for Central and South America, but also implies that Xi gets all of East Asia, Putin gets all of the former Soviet Union. This is such a retro 1950s view of the world that if it doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should.
- [39:35]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Senator Mark Warner, I hope you will come back and talk to me more about this. The boots on the ground. As a Virginian now myself, the boots on the ground, the lack of clarity, the lack of information, it's so important to keep talking about. Thank you so much for being here with me tonight.
- [39:49]
Senator Mark Warner
Thank you.
- [39:49]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Sneak in a very quick break, but for a long time, my next guest was a lonely Republican voice to tell the truth about what happened on January 6th. And today he once again told the truth on camera on Capitol Hill. Jeff Junkin is the former Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia. And he joins me next. Here's what the former Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia, Jeff Junkin, said today, an event commemorating January 6.
- [40:22]
Jeff Duncan
Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election was not about validating an election, but instead was a series of organized and unlawful acts meant to upend the democratic process through any means necessary. I'm often asked why? Why'd you do it, Jeff? Why did you stand up against a sitting president? Why did you take on an entire political party? It's in that moment I was reminded of our family motto, doing the right thing will never be the wrong thing.
- [40:51]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Joining me now is Jeff Duncan, who is now running as a Democratic candidate for governor in Georgia. So you had quite a day on Capitol Hill today. I was speaking with Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi earlier in the show about the fact that right after January 6, so many Republicans spoke out. They were horrified. They were. It was the Capitol they had worked in that was being attacked. But many of them have been quiet since then. And you haven't been. How has that been to watch and see a party that you were once a part of and now people are cowardly? I would say.
- [41:24]
Jeff Duncan
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to say this, but you could see it coming. I mean, Donald Trump was pulling the strings and maneuvering in different ways. You could see him laying the seeing, sowing the seeds of doubt on the election process. And folks were just willing to do and say anything to be in the cool kids club. And unfortunately, that's the big part of the Republican Party. It is a big Ponzi scheme. Donald Trump is the head of a Ponzi scheme. And every day it's got to get 1% shinier, 1% more bombastic. So you forget about all the crazy stuff that was promised or done the day before. And they're willing to do and say anything. But I will tell you, there are millions of Republicans on the same journey I'm on. They're just behind me. They are waking up every day and they've just had enough. They've had enough, and I think a lot of people in America have had enough. They're ready for change and just honest leadership to step forward. We need a role model in the Oval Office like we've never needed one before.
- [42:12]
Host (Jen Psaki)
When you say Republicans are behind you, do you think some of them are in Congress? Some of them are people out there in the country who are just, they've had enough of Donald Trump. Do you see kind of, what do you see as the future of the Republican Party once Trump is no longer in office.
- [42:25]
Jeff Duncan
I think it's going to be a series of half lives. I think you're going to see other folks come in to try to be like Donald Trump and you're going to try to act like Donald Trump. But look, I ran out of making excuses. My journey to becoming a Democrat has been one of the most public displays over the last five years. This journey to becoming a proud Democrat was based on one, being embarrassed of walking into rooms and saying I was a Republican and I supported Donald Trump because I didn't. Two, it was the policy. Things started to fall apart. Right. I got tired of driving by that hospital in Georgia, watching families nervous about walking in because they're sick, because they don't have health insurance and they don't want to bankrupt themselves or driving by that school and blaming the teachers for the lack of progress or not making excuses for mass shootings when we want to pass common sense gun legislation. The list goes on and on and on. I got tired of it and I wake up as a proud Democrat now with a better toolkit to reach into and reach Georgians lives.
- [43:19]
Host (Jen Psaki)
I've talked to a number of people who, they have different journeys than you have had but who were maybe formally worked in the Trump administration or formally supported him and have kind of come, I shouldn't say a number. There are not that many of you. Maybe you're on a text chain. I don't know. There's a cost of speaking out. You talked about this today and I found this to be a very powerful moment about kind of the impact of threats on your families. Talk a little bit about that. It's not easy to do what you've done. What has been the impact?
- [43:47]
Jeff Duncan
Yeah, making a decision like this, to stand up against a sitting president and take on an entire political party isn't done in a vacuum. I'm still Brooke's husband. I still raise three young boys. They're not so young anymore. But we had to do our family. We had to live our life in a bubble and take those death threats that were showing up, take those neighbors that would no longer roll down their windows and wave at us, have those kids come home from school after getting picked on, lose customers in our business. I mean it was real, real pressure. But I continue to point back to just being motivated by doing the right thing. Our family motto is doing the right thing will never be the wrong thing. That's what Brooke and I kind of use as the center point to raise our three boys. And this is the right thing to do the right thing. For Jeff Duncan was to support Kamala Harris, to speak at the dnc, to campaign for her in swing states. That was the right thing for me to do. And the right thing for me to also do was to become a Democrat, because there's no hope left in my lifetime, I believe, for the Republican Party to solve anybody's problems. Democrats really have the best chance. And look, both parties have had a broken story over the last decade, but I think there's beyond a shadow of a doubt the Democratic Party's better positioned to solve people's needs.
- [44:54]
Host (Jen Psaki)
Jeff Duncan, thank you for being here. Thanks for joining us after your testimony today.
- [44:57]
Jeff Duncan
Thank you.
- [44:58]
Host (Jen Psaki)
We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [45:09]
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