← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki: Republicans will regret passing Trump's bill as Democrats look to reprise 2018's House flip
00:45:21
Jen Psaki looks back at how Democrats made Republicans pay for their efforts to kill Obamacare by making that a central focus of House races that ultimately flipped the House to Democratic control. Donald Trump's budget bill is so wildly unpopular that Democratic candidates are already preparing to run against the bill and anyone who supported it. Republicans, in the meantime, are busy trying to distract Americans from what they're doing.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:54]
Political Commentator
As you've all been watching, it appears that little Mike Johnson is going to do everything he can to jam the big ugly bell through Congress in the dark of night because of, I guess, a made up July 4 deadline set by his boss, Donald Trump, and because he also probably knows that the more time his members have to hear from their constituents, the more likely he is not going to keep their votes on his side. I mean, right now the House is voting on what is essentially a procedural step. The vote is open. They can keep it open as long as they want before the final vote to approve the bill. That vote has been open for nearly seven hours as Republican leadership negotiates behind closed doors. As Chris and I were just talking about. We have no idea what those conversations are, what conversations and what promises are being made, but those are happening as they're trying to get key holdouts. Some of them are from the Freedom Caucus. They want there to be more cuts. Some of them are from, I guess a semi more moderate version of Republicans who want some different things. So those are the conversations happening. At least one member is now saying he expects the final vote could be delayed until tomorrow. We don't have any confirmation of that, but that's what one member is saying. And Democrats are preparing to use every tool they have to slow things down, as they did over the night last night. And we're going to watch closely over the next hour. We're going to speak with a number of people who are right in the middle of it. I want to start tonight with the historic unpopularity of this absolutely vile bill because it reminds me a lot of what the midterm elections looked like the last time Donald Trump was president. When D.C. politicians voted to gut health care for people with pre existing conditions, I decided to run for Congress myself.
- [02:39]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
So when I saw Congressman Bishop smiling.
- [02:41]
Political Commentator
At the White House after voting to gut protections for pre existing conditions, something inside me broke. Like Dean Heller, who promised to vote against the plan to repeal Obamacare because it would hurt Nevada. But when President Trump put the pressure.
- [02:54]
Congressman Joe Negus
On you weren't there, but you're going to be there.
- [02:57]
Political Commentator
Dean Heller got back in line.
- [02:59]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Now the threat is Patrick Morrissey's lawsuit to take away health care from people with pre existing conditions. For me, it's all about West Virginia.
- [03:11]
Political Commentator
Don't mind the gunshot there. Every Democrat you just saw either flipped a Republican held seat or, like Joe Manchin, held onto one in deep red territory. Kim Schreier won an open race to replace Republican David schweikart in Washington's 8th district. Alyssa Slotkin defeated Republican Mike Bishop to win Michigan's 8th district before, of course, going on to win a Senate seat. Late last year, Jackie Rosen defeated Republican Senator Dean Heller to claim the Nevada seat she still holds. And Joe Manchin defended his Senate seat in West Virginia, a state, I would note Donald Trump had won by 42 points two years earlier. And they all did it with a version of the same message. Republicans want to take away your health care. They do not want your health care to be protected. If you or a loved one has pre existing conditions. That was a big part of a lot of the messaging. And that message ended up being part of more than half of the ads supporting Democratic candidates during the pivotal final two months of the 2018 election. For good reason. It worked. I mean, it helped Democrats win back 41 seats in the House and flip two Republican controlled Senate seats. Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House again. And Donald Trump lost his total control over both houses of Congress. And now, as we stare down the barrel of another effort by Republicans to take away health care from millions of Americans, history may repeat itself and then some, really, because this time it is much worse. I mean, back in 2018, Republicans actually failed in their efforts to strip health care away from millions of Americans. They failed. Trump's disastrous Obamacare repeal fell one vote short in the Senate, thanks to the late Senator John McCain. And so they were forced to resort to frivolous lawsuits that really never went anywhere. But that was what A lot of the debates and a lot of the conversations and ads were about during that campaign. And this time around, they're actually poised to take health care away from millions of Americans. Trump's big, ugly bill would result in nearly 12 million people losing Medicaid coverage, and another 4.2 million people would lose health care because of cuts to the Affordable Care Act. And in addition to being remarkably cruel, it could also spell disaster for Republicans politically. I mean, a recent Kaiser Family foundation poll found that 83% of people approve of Medicaid. 83%. 83% of paper people barely agree on anything. As Paul Kirkman pointed out this week, that is literally more popular than apple pie. Just to give you a sense. And this isn't even a partisan thing either. I mean, a whopping 74% of Republicans say they have a favorable view of Medicaid. That's probably why Republican lawmakers don't seem especially thrilled right now, even as they are on the verge. Maybe we'll see. There's still time of passing their first major piece of legislation since Trump took office. Kind of feels like their hearts aren't in it. I mean, just listen to how defensive Congressman Derek Van Orden sounded today when asked if they feel pressure from Trump to vote for this bill. I mean, Trump is. Trump is sort of the second factor here. No, no, I'm not going to allow you to get away with that.
- [06:20]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The President of the United States didn't.
- [06:22]
Political Analyst
Give us an assignment.
- [06:23]
Advertiser
Not a bunch of little bitches over here.
- [06:25]
Political Commentator
I'm a member of Congress.
- [06:25]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I represent almost 800,000 Wisconsinites.
- [06:28]
Andy Richter
Is that clear?
- [06:30]
Political Commentator
I mean, listen, when you're proclaiming out loud that you're in fact, not someone's little bitch, well, kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? But it's been like this all day. And he's not the only one who's as defensive and testy as that. I mean, this morning, Democrats showed up in big numbers to speak out against the bill on the House floor. Many, many Democrats showed up, but far fewer Republicans showed up to speak in favor of it. And that led to some pretty awkward moments.
- [07:01]
Congressman Robert Garcia
If I can inquire of the general, if she doesn't have many speakers, maybe she can lend us some time because.
- [07:06]
Political Commentator
We have a ton.
- [07:08]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Nice try, Mr. McGovern.
- [07:12]
Congressman Robert Garcia
In Congress, we measure. We can measure how much people really believe in their position by whether they're willing to come and join their leaders on the House floor. While I count four members on the Republican side, and we've got over 75 over here.
- [07:25]
Political Commentator
You know, but if I.
- [07:27]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Were them, I wouldn't want to be associated with this bill either.
- [07:30]
Political Commentator
We love a spicy Jim McGovern. Even the few Republicans who did show up didn't seem like they were quite on the same page. Like Republican Congressman Troy Nels, who used his time wisely to, of course, complain about his Republican colleagues in the Senate.
- [07:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I was proud to introduce the Endowment Tax Fairness Act. The Senate gutted this provision and reduced IT to under 1 billion annually to protect. Protect elite universities.
- [07:58]
Political Commentator
The Senate, again, controlled by Republicans. So the Republican Senate, not exactly a message, if there even is a message. Who knows? Then there was Congressman Joe Wilson, who used his time to ramble about stuff from Trump's first term that had literally nothing to do with this bill at all.
- [08:14]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I led the delegation to move the delegation, the embassy, from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
- [08:20]
Political Commentator
He did that. People said, you shouldn't do it.
- [08:22]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The State Department, because it leads to dislocation. No, it led to the embassy being in Jerusalem. I just appreciate Donald Trump. Promises made, promises kept.
- [08:32]
Political Commentator
Thank you.
- [08:33]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I yield back.
- [08:34]
Political Commentator
I mean, what are we even talking about here? Even the Republicans who tried to speak in favor of this bill at times seemed woefully unprepared. Is the only way to describe it.
- [08:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The first would be President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who realized. Who realized. Excuse me, who realized. Skating the appropriate quote. Who realized the negative impacts of high tech tax rates. Indeed, roughly 60 years ago, President Kennedy warned. I have a constituent.
- [09:17]
Political Commentator
I mean, Republicans just cannot figure out how to defend this bill because it's indefensible, which is not funny at all. Just their response is funny. And I guess spending your time incoherently musing about JFK or talking about your role in moving an embassy or even attacking the Senate is better than trying to come up with positive spin about this bill. Well, they may end up celebrating its passage if it happens overnight. And again, we will see. They're probably going to regret it in 2026. That's my bet. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Pramila Jayapal of Washington State. She's a member of the House Budget Committee. It's great to see you. I think we are all trying to understand everybody watching what is happening right now. They can keep this procedural vote open. What is happening behind the scenes and what are the options for Democrats overnight tonight?
- [10:07]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Yeah, it's great to be with you, Jen. So this is actually not even the important procedural vote that comes next. This is a vote to correct a giant mistake they made when they passed the rule they didn't put in a previous question, which is what allows you to end debate. So they had to correct that. So that's what this vote is. They have the votes for that, but they don't want to call it because the minute you call it, you have to move to the rule vote. And the rule vote is the major procedural vote that allows debate to continue on the final bill. So they don't want to move to the rule vote because they do not have the, the votes and they don't want to vote for the rule vote for the rule vote. And so they don't want to open the rule vote and then either not be able to have it go the way that they want or have to pull it from the floor, which has happened sometimes where they pull down a vote because they know it's just not going to work. So they essentially take it off the floor. So what they're doing right now is all of this calls with the president, talking with each other, apparently from a reporter and then from some Republicans that I spoke to. The president has promised a number of executive orders. I don't know if any of this is true. I'm just saying these are all the.
- [11:17]
Political Commentator
Machinations that are the kind of things they promise.
- [11:20]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
They promise a number of things. Who knows if any of those will be written down.
- [11:24]
Political Commentator
But executive orders on what? I didn't mean to interrupt anything. They're telling about what they're about.
- [11:28]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
No, not really. And I think many of these executive orders that he's putting out aren't even legal, and then they get challenged in the courts. But I think that there's a number of promises being made. I think the thing that many of the, you know, there are two camps of Republicans. There are the Republicans who don't want this bill because they're deficit hawks, and it explodes the deficit by 5 trillion, increases the debt ceiling by 5 trillion, explodes the deficit by at least 3.5 trillion, all to give these tax cuts to the wealthiest. But that's one group. And then there's another group of sort of more moderate Republicans who were in swing districts, tough districts, where either Donald Trump lost or he barely won. And those Republicans are very concerned about the impacts on health care for their constituents, the Medicaid cuts, things like that. But at the end of the day, Jen, it's a choice that they have to make between whether they face the wrath of Donald Trump or they face the wrath of their constituents who, who are going to get kicked off of health care and nutrition assistance and have their energy Bills go up, because those are the things that are going to happen in this bill. You would hope that faced with that choice, they would do what's right for their constituents that elected them. But I fear that this is a cult party that is going to cave to Donald Trump and what he wants to do, not what's right for their constituents.
- [12:48]
Political Commentator
It seems like there are people give different numbers, because all of the people you mentioned, maybe it's 20, maybe it's 26, maybe it's far less than that. What is your gut about what is gonna happen here? Do you think they're gonna cave after being through this with them so many times?
- [13:03]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Because I've watched them so many times and they come out so hot and they're like, I'm not gonna vote for this and I'm not gonna do this and I'm not gonna do that. And then they just cave. That's what I've seen over and over again. The only person who doesn't do that is Thomas Massie. He's been really consistent. But generally they cave. And so maybe they're going to do that again this time. But they have to understand that they're going to have less and less leverage the more they cave, because once you do it once or twice or three times, nobody is going to believe you the next time, and you're not actually going to be able to leverage anything. So, you know, it was disappointing to me that the Senate passed this because I thought Lisa Murkowski could be the John McCain person that saved health care for 17 million Americans.
- [13:51]
Political Commentator
And.
- [13:51]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
And she wasn't. And so now to have that vote and then to say, well, now the House should fix it and not vote on it is ridiculous because it's already come from the House. So that's where we are. It's stalled right now. I think they're going to try to do this in the middle of the night. I don't think Johnson wants to wait until the morning because he would rather have this vote go through in the middle of the night. As soon as they have the votes that they need, they're going to bring it to the floor for a vote. If they can't do it by tomorrow, by tomorrow morning, then maybe, you know, then maybe they go back to the drawing board and we come back next week and they. And they do it.
- [14:31]
Political Commentator
If you. Once we get through that, once they get to the procedural vote, there's an opportunity. Democrats can debate. They're part of the debate as well. There's something called the magic minute. That the top three ranking members of the House have access to, which means that Leader Jeffries could speak as long as he wants.
- [14:47]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Right.
- [14:48]
Political Commentator
Do you think he will or what should we anticipate happening there? Because delay is a tactic here.
- [14:53]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Delay is a tactic, though. Once they have the votes, you know, you can only delay so long. I mean, he could certainly try to do an extended magic minute, whether it's, I mean, I think it could be an hour, but it could also be seven hours if he wants to essentially filibuster. There are, we did a conga line this morning, which is a series of unanimous consent requests to make the point that they wouldn't allow us to consider not making cuts to Medicaid and snap. So there are a number of things like that, but we're much more limited in the House with procedural maneuvers than the Senate is. And so ultimately it comes to a vote if there are the, you know, a bare minimum of votes needed.
- [15:38]
Political Commentator
Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you so much. I know we usually talk, so much substance, but I think so many people are trying to understand what's going on here. I really appreciate you trying to shed some light on that.
- [15:48]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
Thank you so much, Jen.
- [15:49]
Political Commentator
All right, we are just, we're just gonna keep going with the House members. That's where the story is. So we're gonna keep it rolling tonight because this vote is still very much a live ball. The night is young. It's very young. Congressman Joe Negus is standing by. He's a member of Democratic leadership and he joins me from the house in just 90 seconds.
- [16:11]
Andy Richter
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- [16:53]
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- [17:21]
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- [18:00]
Political Commentator
Joining me now is Congressman Joe Negus, Democrat of Colorado and assistant Democratic leader in the House. Congressman, thank you so much for taking some time out to talk with me. I was just speaking with one of your colleagues. I just asked her sort of what, what is happening right now because we're following it all moment to moment. So much happening behind the scenes in terms of wrangling. So help us understand, right now there's a procedural vote before the real procedural vote. After that, there's a debate. What should people watching at home know about what's going on there and what options Democrats have for further delaying this process or even pulling Republicans over to your side?
- [18:37]
Congressman Joe Negus
Sure.
- [18:37]
Andy Richter
Well, good evening, Jen. It's good to be with you. I think you summarized the state of play quite well. Essentially, Republicans made a major error when they were proceeding with the bill yesterday, the rule that essentially unlocks consideration of the bill on the floor. So as a result, they have to amend that rule. And that amendment vote has now been pending for the better part of the last eight or so hours. And I believe this is the longest in the history of the United States Congress in which a vote has been held open in this way. Of course, the reason Speaker Johnson is doing so is because he doesn't have the votes to proceed. And he knows that if he were to call the vote and if that vote were to fail, it would be very difficult to put this back together. I think that he recognizes that the longer this goes on, the more exposed his members are because Americans are learning more and more about the terrible provisions in the bill that we're considering, many of which, of course, were added in the Senate, as you've discussed. So we'll see what happens over the course of the coming hours. But I think my colleague, Representative Jayapal articulated well, kind of the next stages here. Time will tell as to whether or not they'll be able to muster sufficient votes. I will just say, though, Jen, I agree with your assessment of Republicans being very defensive. And they're defensive for a simple reason. This bill is indefensible. It would devastate health care for millions of Americans. It would be the largest wealth transfer from the, the middle class to the rich, the billionaires in our country's history. They know it. They know they can't defend it, which is why they are stammering to try to justify their rationale for proceeding.
- [20:12]
Political Commentator
There is so much, and you just mentioned that I think the biggest top lines here, you know, 16 million people would lose their health care. This is really to give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations. As people are thinking about how to communicate about this to their neighbors, to their friends on social media, maybe to call their members of Congress. Is there anything else top of mind as people are getting to know what's in this bill, you want them to know about what's in this bill?
- [20:38]
Andy Richter
Well, I think the top line, of course, as you said, Jen, because it is the most visceral impact in terms of how folks will be impacted by this bill if it becomes law, are the health care impacts. I represent Colorado, as you know, represent western and northern Colorado. There are rural hospitals in my district and across the state that will close if this bill becomes law. There are children and families who will no longer have access to health care if this bill is signed into law. But in addition, I would say, Jen, that although the policy is, of course, terrible, the process has been terrible as well. It's really a debasement of the way in which the House is supposed to function. It's a reflection of everything that folks are so cynical about in terms of our politics. You think about some of the provisions that have been added to this bill over the course of the last three weeks, from the tax cuts for whaling boat captains in Alaska to secure the vote of Senator Murkowski, or of course, the repeal of taxes on silencers, on suppressors for weapons, which was a provision that was added in the House. It's everything that is wrong with Washington, D.C. and ultimately, I think that my colleagues on their side of the aisle, if they proceed under this course, will pay a political price next year because I think the voters can see through it.
- [21:55]
Political Commentator
Let me ask you about a little bit more about the messaging, because you can already see a heavy dose of gaslighting going on here is the only way I can refer to it. I mean, today, or maybe he just is not a policy wonk, which may also be true. Is also true, for sure. I mean, today, Trump reports reportedly told Republicans in a meeting that there are three things Congress shouldn't touch if they want to win elections, Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security. And one member reportedly responded, and this is a Republican member, but we're touching Medicaid in this bill. They're trying to convince people. So I guess, first of all, what are your thoughts about that, what was going on there to the degree you have any understanding of what was happening there?
- [22:34]
Andy Richter
Well, I would probably be, you know, as a former impeachment prosecutor, the last person to ask as to the president's state of mind or his rationale. What I would say, though, is I think that the administration knows exactly what they're doing. This is subterfuge, plain and simple.
- [22:47]
Political Commentator
Right.
- [22:48]
Andy Richter
Make no mistake, the administration has parroted lie after lie to mislead and obfuscate the American people. This is no different. They've made a promise to not touch Medicaid and they are now presiding over the largest cut in the history of Medicaid since the program was first created 60 some odd years ago, devastating their constituents, betraying a promise that President Trump made to his voters. So I think they know exactly what they're doing. They're hoping that if they say this lie loud enough and, and, you know, at a typical, at a high enough volume that perhaps folks will start to believe it. And it's going to be our job over the course of the days and weeks ahead, if we're unable to defeat this bill, to make sure that the American people understand the consequences.
- [23:36]
Political Commentator
Well, Congressman, we're hearing, we're hearing that there could be a vote soon on the roll. I don't know, you're probably hearing more than I am because you're in Democratic leadership. But anything more you can tell us about what's going on or how soon you are to the next vote, which seems like it's a key one because it moves things forward.
- [23:52]
Andy Richter
Yeah. So, I mean, there may have been a development here over the course of the last few minutes since I've been on your program. My sense is that if there is a vote on the procedural amendment, it would likely be here in short order. The longer this goes, the less likely it is that I think you'll have a vote tonight and that ultimately we'd reconvene tomorrow. But as my colleague, Congresswoman Jaya Paul so eloquently put it, these folks on the other side of the aisle capitulated every turn. So notwithstanding you know, the language that they're using about their potential opposition to the bill, ultimately I suspect that they will all fall in line and do the president's bidding, as they've done time and time again.
- [24:31]
Political Commentator
Congressman Joe Negus, thank you so much for taking the time. I don't know that I actually scooped you, but it will be probably the last time if it was. I appreciate you joining me tonight. Thank you very much. Coming up, we are hearing a key vote in the House, as I just mentioned, will happen in just a few minutes. We're back after a very quick break.
- [24:50]
Woody Harrelson
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- [25:21]
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- [25:48]
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- [26:24]
Political Commentator
As I just mentioned, members of the House have been advised that there will be a key procedural vote happening in just a few minutes and if it passes, there will be a bunch of debate and then they could move to a final vote on Donald Trump's big, ugly bill. We shall see. We'll keep you updated, of course. Joining me now is former advisor to House Speakers Paul Ryan and John Boehner, Brendan Buck, and former domestic policy advisor to President Biden. Now the president and CEO of the center for American Progress, Neera Tanden. Okay, first, we've been sort of this procedural vote has been open for several hours because they made a mistake, which we don't need to go into the details of that again. But what do you think this means that they're calling this vote now?
- [27:01]
Congressman Joe Negus
Well, you've had House Freedom Caucus members, the more conservative fiscal hawks, basically saying today that they're not going to vote for any procedural step today. They want to wait until tomorrow. They want to, I think, get it, you know, get it out of their system a little more because I think they're dealing with the little stages of grief at this point. But clearly something has changed because if that they only have a margin of three votes, they can't lose more than three. And the fact that they're bringing this to the floor, I don't think they're willing to have this go down in any way. So clearly there's been some kind of breakthrough. If they actually are voting, if they have the votes for the rule, I think they probably have the votes for the final package. And this could be done all tonight. It's not great to be voting in the middle of the night, which seems like what they're planning on doing.
- [27:36]
Political Commentator
Or maybe that's the point, Brendan. Maybe. What do you think, Niran? Do you think the point is to vote in the middle of the night? I do.
- [27:42]
Political Analyst
I totally think the point is to vote in the middle of the night. Now it is totally possible they only have one more night until July 4th. So if you wanted to vote in the middle of the night, you might want to just gamble that no one would stop Donald Trump's legislation. So, you know, I don't think it's 100% assured. It could be just this is the gamble they want to take because otherwise it's either now or after July 4th. And I think throughout this process, Republicans have been really worried about this legislation getting the attention of the public because they know absolutely that it is incredibly unpopular. I mean, basically, a lot of Republican senators have said that their strategy is to ensure there's as little public attention as possible, because people, when they know about this bill, basically hate it. They hate the idea that we're going to take health care from millions of People in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. And so I think it's been unfortunate for them that this has gone into this week. It was supposed to be last week, let's be honest. And the fact that they're doing it so late means that they're worried about the public attention.
- [28:45]
Political Commentator
My assumption, but you tell me I have not been an advisor to Republicans or in Republican leadership, is that they're making the calculus that and Brian Schatz sort of said this and others have said this, that either they go against Donald Trump and get primaried or they go against what for members who are in vulnerable districts, I should say. Or they go against what the people in their district might want. Is that the calculation they're making?
- [29:10]
Congressman Joe Negus
Sure. I mean, everybody has to worry about a primary. I mean, not everybody really has to worry about a general election. So you want to make sure that you at least take care of the primary. Look, I don't want to simplify it. They're just voting because of it's Donald Trump. There's a lot of stuff that a lot of Republicans have wanted to do for a long time. The 2017 tax law that's being extended here, that's a priority that Republicans have talked about for years. But ultimately, this is a really bad political vote and they know it. There is also strength in numbers, sticking with the team. That kind of thing really permeates the culture. Not just Republicans in Congress, but everyone in Congress. Everybody just wants to go along, get along. And that sort of inertia tends to lead to people voting together. I don't think anybody really wants to become the Thomas Massie, the Kentucky congressman who Donald Trump has now basically said, I'm going to take you out. That's a risk that all of them run. So they keep their heads down, they vote with the team and they hope that it works out.
- [30:04]
Political Commentator
But Medicaid is, I mean, it's more popular than apple pie. A fact they all have to now run having voted for a bill that cuts Medicaid. It doesn't matter what they say. It cuts Medicaid. How do you. What do they do? They try not to talk about the bill. What is the strategy?
- [30:22]
Congressman Joe Negus
I don't know that the Medicaid part, I could say there's a strategy. I think this is one of the places where they sort of broke down. The Medicaid policy changes that were in here were not done to make health care policy changes. It was done as an offset and it was done sort of on the fly in the Last minute. This started out mostly as an effort to extend that tax law that I was talking about, and that's very expensive. And so there was an effort to say we got to find some cuts to make to make it not so expensive. As Donald Trump has said, as you pointed out earlier, we're not going to touch Medicare, we're not going to touch Social Security, other than the military, which they're actually increasing funding for. All that's really left in terms of big buckets in the federal government spending is Medicaid. So that's where they went. And they were making this up on the fly. We were talking about work requirements. Then we're talking about changing the fmap, which is how it's funded at the federal level. Members didn't know what was in or out, let alone how they're going to explain it and how they're going to sell it. So now you have a lot of members who are basically, you know, they're on the hook for explaining this policy, that they had no process, part of writing, let alone understand and know how to talk about it.
- [31:21]
Political Commentator
Well, I mean, except that they have an ability to vote and read a bill. And the CBO score says that over 11 million people lose Medicaid. So even though it's not the process.
- [31:30]
Congressman Joe Negus
The intention, I could defend this a lot more if this was an effort. Okay, we're going to go after health care policy. We're going to make policy changes that we think improve the health care system. That was never the context of what they were doing. This was purely an offset. Where can we find money to make this tax cut not cost so much?
- [31:46]
Political Commentator
Okay, you're actually a health care expert, so we should really talk to you. First of all, give us. We've seen the numbers from the cbo. What are we missing? It doesn't matter how we got there. It matters what the impact is going to be and what are Democrats going to do to make sure people know and understand what's happening.
- [32:03]
Political Analyst
Yeah. So I think it's really important to recognize that this is a trillion dollars out of Medicaid that it will impact regardless of what people say. It's taking a trillion dollars out of health care, which will drive up costs for everyone. It will take away health care from people, working class people who need health care. It will absolutely do that. But it will take away money from hospitals. Rural hospitals in particular are very vulnerable. A lot of people have talked about that. But we should just recognize when you take that much money out of the health care system, that it's going to raise the cost for everyone else. And that is the greatest irony of this legislation from my perspective, which is this legislation raises costs for health care. It raises costs for utilities, it raises costs for food. I mean, and just a little part of this is that by getting rid of snap, it's like benefits for food for really working class and struggling people. There are all kinds of rural groceries that could close. So they're just. The level of cuts to programs is so large. I mean, I just think that the fact is people are playing with really live bullets here, and they have no idea the fact that we haven't had a robust discussion of health policy. And this is just like, hey, we need some extra money. Let's take it from these people who are really vulnerable, without any sense of the impact. I mean, again, it's not me, it's Josh Hawley saying that this is going to take health care from working class people. And most fundamentally, here's the issue. To me, Thom Tillis was basically forced to make a choice between his constituents, health care and running for reelection because Trump's said to basically said to him, you're with me or you're against me. And he made a choice to protect people's health care instead of run for reelection. That, to me, is the fundamental problem of the world we're in. Serve the public or serve Donald Trump. And the Republican Party today says you can only do one of those. You can't do both, you said.
- [34:01]
Political Commentator
Which is true. Very honest. It is a tough political vote. You know, it's immoral as well, but it's a tough political vote. It reminds me a little bit of 2018, but worse in the sense that Democrats ran who won back seats from Republican vulnerable members on health care, on protecting preexisting conditions. And now it's like they're running against people who are taking health care away. What do they do about this in these districts? I sort of asked you about this a little bit, but I really want to better understand. I mean, they're here for Republicans.
- [34:31]
Congressman Joe Negus
I don't know that this is at this point worse than what happened in 2017 and 2018, because I don't know the Democrats have paid enough attention to this. So I was there in 2017 when we tried to repeal and replace the ACA. You guys are both probably, you know, kicking our face in every single day. We were getting our butts. We were getting our butts kicked on that issue every day. Democrats were highly engaged. That was the focus, despite all the stuff that Donald Trump was doing. That's not been the case here. Democrats have not, to this point been as engaged on this as they should. We're having protests about Donald Trump being a king and stuff, and we're talking about the immigration stuff, which is all important stuff to talk about. But Republicans have been flying under the radar on this for a long time. So I don't think this is quite.
- [35:09]
Political Commentator
As I think it's about to end. We have to go to commercial in a second, but I want to give you just 30 seconds to say what you wanted to say.
- [35:15]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah.
- [35:15]
Political Analyst
I mean, the big difference between now and 2018 is that they were defeated on the ACA. They passed this legislation. People will see hospitals close.
- [35:23]
Political Commentator
Yeah.
- [35:23]
Political Analyst
People will see people lose health care. That's what they're going to own in district after district. So it's, I think it's a lot more dangerous for them.
- [35:30]
Political Commentator
We will see. Thank you both so much for joining. Really appreciate it. We'll keep following what's happening on the Hill as well. Coming up, as we rate the results of the key vote in the House, we've got brand new reporting about Donald Trump's personal finances and his frantic race for cash as he returned to the White House. We'll keep our eye on the House and tell you about everything we learn any reporting, we get, all of it when we come back. We're watching this key vote in the House that is happening right now. We show you the votes and where they stand right now on your screen. Republicans have already lost two votes. They can only afford to lose three votes. Joining me now is Congressman Robert Garcia, Democrat from California, and the newly elected ranking member of the House Oversight Committee. So there's so much to talk to you about. I was just telling you during the break, I can't. I really want to talk to you a lot about this New York Times story today and all the corruption. Maybe we'll get there. But I want to start with this vote because this has been held open for seven hours plus today because the Republicans made a mistake. We don't need to go into all the details of that, but it now means they're moving forward. What should we read from that? That they have the votes, that they're testing the Freedom Caucus? What do you, what do you think?
- [36:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I mean, the truth is it's probably both. I mean, we know that right now Donald Trump has been on the phone all day with the Freedom Caucus, with others. We know that a lot of them were actually at the White House. This is unprecedented, by the way, holding open this vote for as long as they did, we don't think has actually happened in the modern history of Congress completely breaking the rules. They are out doing whatever they'd like to do and doing whatever Donald Trump wants them to do. And so now it's likely in the next few hours, we'll have a vote on this horrific bill that does nothing but put the American people backwards and gives huge tax breaks to billionaires.
- [37:19]
Political Commentator
You're a bit of a corruption crusader. Can I call you that? And one of the things I was talking with Chris Hayes about, but also some of your colleagues about, is we don't really have any idea what's being promised right now by Trump or by Republican leadership. What do you think? Like, where does your mind go in terms of what kind of things could be promised to Republican members right now who have concerns about the bill being too expensive, expensive, or having too many cuts? What could be happening?
- [37:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Let's be clear. I mean, Donald Trump is the most corrupt person to ever be President of the United States. When you have someone that is getting enormous amount of foreign investment to himself and his family through this meme coin scheme, a $400 million plan from Qatar, you have all of these investments in other countries from Trump properties and hotels, his family profiting, including the Kushners when they left the White House the last time, and now selling fragrance and Bibles. This is a family whose center core mission is to enrich themselves and push corruption and take whatever they can from the government. So as far as what he's promising to other members of Congress, who knows? But he is twisting arms and getting what he wants. We've got to ensure that at this moment, we hold Donald Trump accountable for what he's doing. And these Republicans tonight should be ashamed of themselves. They're gonna rip away Healthcare from 17 million Americans. They're going to rip away SNAP benefits and food assistance from hungry kids and families, and they're gonna supercharge ICE detention centers and these quite unconstitutional, essentially, kidnappings that are happening off the streets all across the country.
- [38:53]
Political Commentator
Let me. I was talking about this a little bit last night with another one of your colleagues, Maxwell Frost, just about the amount of ICE funding. I mean, we've spent a lot of time talking about the number of people who will be kicked off Medicaid, who will lose health insurance because of the ACA cuts. What about the ICE funding? It is enormous. Put it into kind of, you know, terms for us about how concerned you are about empowering ice, giving more funding to this department. It's going to have more funding than the FBI, I believe, or some of these departments.
- [39:21]
Congressman Robert Garcia
It is insane. And there's no other way to describe it. You're essentially supercharging this agency. You're being able to double essentially the size and capacity of this agency to go out and cause more terrorists and harm. And let's be clear. Nobody in this country wants violent criminals.
- [39:37]
Political Commentator
We understand there are three no votes. Three no votes.
- [39:40]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I'm just on the rule right now.
- [39:41]
Political Commentator
Yeah, on the rule right now. I didn't mean to interrupt you because I keep on talking about this, but what do you think that means? It's just the rule right now.
- [39:47]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah, it's just the rule. I imagine that Johnson has probably either negotiated some of this, he can obviously lose a few votes, but he needs to pass this rule. And so this is. It's a hopeful sign. Let's. Let's really hope some of these Republicans can do the right thing or muster enough courage. I just know that Trump's been on the phone and working these guys all day. So we'll see how this does.
- [40:10]
Political Commentator
Okay, we're gonna keep watching it. Keep talking about the ICE funding. I just wanted to make sure people were watching that and suits saw that number.
- [40:16]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah, I mean, look, I think what's really important is on this ICE funding, what's happening right now is you have people being essentially snatched off the street. U.S. citizens, people with no criminal records. We know that. We think between 60 and 70% of those being taken actually have no criminal records, have been convicted of anything. And so this is a real crisis here. And this bill is essentially a tax giveaway to billionaires, Elon Musk and multinational corporations. I mean, that's what this is about. And I think it's incredibly frustrating and shameful that Republicans are willing to sell off people's health insurance, their coverage, their food assistance, to give tax breaks to the billionaire buddies. That's exactly what this vote is about.
- [40:56]
Political Commentator
One of the challenges, although I will say this is kind of an opportunity, is that people don't. Almost 50% of people don't know a lot about the bill out there, maybe more than that, according to recent polling. I mean, who knows? That's a challenge, but it's also an opportunity. What does that look like? Or what do you want it to look like for Democrats in terms of how they're talking about the bill, where they're talking about the bill, how Democratic challengers, who you need to win and defeat Republicans in order to be in the majority of. How should they be talking about it. And what should everybody be doing?
- [41:27]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I mean, look, obviously we're gonna work hard to defeat this bill. The vote for this bill is likely gonna come later tonight. We'll see what happens with this procedural vote. But we need to be very clear that this vote rips away healthcare for millionaires 4.
- [41:40]
Political Commentator
Sorry to interrupt. So help people understand what that means. We don't know. Totally.
- [41:46]
Congressman Joe Negus
Yeah.
- [41:46]
Congressman Robert Garcia
And just to be clear, this isn't the vote on the bill.
- [41:48]
Political Commentator
Yes.
- [41:49]
Congressman Robert Garcia
So this is a vote, essentially, it's a procedural vote to set up the rules for debate for the actual bill. So obviously I voted no before I just before I came on your show. Democrats are united, obviously, not in stopping this, but if this goes down, this is big problems for Mike Johnson. But more importantly, it's a win for the American public. There is some hope here. Obviously, he can attempt to bring this, to bring the rule back and so that there is that opportunity for him as well. But we need to ensure Republicans should do the right thing. There are Republicans, for example, that consider themselves moderate. This is not. It's not. This is. How can they vote for this? And so this is again, a hopeful sign. But we know that Donald Trump has twisted, has made promises, has done whatever he can do to try to get votes to go his way. So we'll see who these votes actually are. I'm not exactly sure who they are.
- [42:41]
Political Commentator
We're not sure entirely. And they could be testing a system or testing a process or testing members who are threatening things. So if this fails, what happens then, procedurally?
- [42:51]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Well, I think that at that point, procedurally, Mike Johnson's got some decisions to make. And I think obviously they can still bring essentially another vote back. Yeah, we still have to go through another rules vote.
- [43:05]
Political Commentator
Yeah.
- [43:05]
Congressman Robert Garcia
But the best way to explain it is this vote is really a procedure vote, but it does give you a sense of where that final vote is going to be. And so look, there are some that will that would say, well, I'm vote for the procedure, but against the bill. I think without getting into when we don't know where Republicans are at, we do know that if this rule goes down, that's a win for the American public.
- [43:27]
Political Commentator
No question about that. You know, as a speaker, emerita, national treasurer that she is, Pelosi would say, you don't call a vote until you know you're gonna win the vote. So that's. That's another part of this that's kind of an interesting. Okay, we're going to keep watching the numbers, but in terms of challengers out there, I mean, Democrats who are in Congress, those who have had tough races, they're going to be in caucus meetings, they're going to know how to talk about this and probably hopefully be on a united front for people who are challenging Republicans or thinking about, I don't know, should I challenge this Republican or should I challenge Republicans? This reminds me of 2018. I started the show talking about this when Republicans tried to take away health care from the American public by trying to kill Obamacare through legislation or through lawsuits. And that was what Democrats ran on. So for challengers out there, this seems like a big opportunity, a big message point. But what do you think they should be talking about? Is it mainly the health care piece? What other pieces?
- [44:25]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I think healthcare is gonna be the center. And look, I've already heard from a few doctors right now across the country watching this debate.
- [44:32]
Political Commentator
Yeah.
- [44:33]
Congressman Robert Garcia
That are going to be announcing their.
- [44:35]
Political Commentator
Challenges, announcing challenges to Republicans, to Republicans.
- [44:38]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The doctors right now that are dependent on Medicaid, they're working in clinics that are just enraged about what's gonna happen to their patients. I think you are going to see doctors, nurses and folks in this profession stand up to these Republicans and say, you are not going to harm my patients. And we're gonna stand up to you and we're actually gonna try to improve and expand health care, not take it away in this country. So I think it's a really interesting moment. Let's hope this bill does not pass. This would be horrific. And let's not forget the tax breaks this is going to do for billionaires. Why are we giving Elon Musk and these billionaires more of our hard earned money? This is a redistribution of wealth, the largest in modern history.
- [45:19]
Political Commentator
Okay, Mike Johnson is speaking to reporters right now. You don't know all of this, so I'm telling you too. We're going to listen for a moment.
- [45:25]
Andy Richter
Moving it forward.
- [45:25]
Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal
You're going to pat this on.
- [45:26]
Political Commentator
Angle by listen for a moment, he said we look forward to passing the bill. So by listen for a moment, I meant literally listen for a moment. Because they were yelling at him. People could probably hear it watching. Are you going to pass it tonight? And he walked away, which is interesting because the thing that everybody should know and you know well is that time is not a friend when it's a tricky vote to pass.
- [45:56]
Congressman Robert Garcia
That's exactly right. And look, and we don't know right now, obviously he can hold this vote open. We don't know how long. Look, the last vote he held Open all day.
- [46:04]
Political Commentator
Yeah.
- [46:04]
Congressman Robert Garcia
And so it's very possible he'll hold this vote open for a while. He's gonna try to get out there and twist some elbows. I imagined that Donald Trump is making some furious phone calls right now. But let's hope that this is gonna be a good night for the American public and most importantly, a night where we can actually preserve people's health care. That we're not going to take people's hard earned money and give it to billionaires.
- [46:27]
Political Commentator
We're continuing to watch this very closely. This is interesting. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. Thank you so much, Congressman. We were just, we're doing it live here together. So I appreciate all of your expertise. Thank you so much for being here with me and I hope you'll come back and talk to me more about your role in the Oversight Committee. We'll be right back. We're watching this key vote in the House right now. We were just watching it right before the break. Brendan Buck is back. We had him pull over and come back and talk to us. He's a former advisor to Speakers Paul Ryan and John Boehner. So what people can see right now, they can't. Four votes is a fail. So they can't have four no votes. Correct. What's happening right now with the total.
- [47:14]
Congressman Joe Negus
Number of members that are in the House right now, it's 220 Republicans, 212 Democrats. That means that if four Republicans vote with Democrats and vote no, it's a tie at 260 and that fails. So right now you have four Republicans who are voting no. That is enough to stop this bill, assuming everybody who was there earlier votes. Now, I think this is going to pass. Still, let me be very clear. There are times when you are the speaker and you decide you're going to go to the floor and you don't have the votes and you just go.
- [47:44]
Political Commentator
And this is a Mike Johnson tactic too.
- [47:46]
Congressman Joe Negus
Well, we used it every speaker I worked for. There have been moments where you're close, you're really close to the number of votes you need, but you're not quite there. And you decide we're just going to do it because there is an incredible amount of pressure and intensity in a vote like this on the floor. And those members who are voting no are all going to be visited by their colleagues. And they all know that Mike Johnson's pretty serious at this point because Mike Johnson has done this before when it was funding the government earlier this year when it was the vote just for him to get speaker again. Both those times he went to the floor without the votes and they flipped people on the floor and got there. I think that's the same strategy they're doing here. They are so close. They're not making the progress they need just by talking to people. So now they're going to, they're ramping up the pressure and going to do it on the floor. We saw earlier that Mike Johnson is willing to keep the floor votes open for as long as it takes. Just I guess broke the record earlier. So I think he'll keep this vote open as long as it takes. For the handful of folks who are who are currently voting no, or at least one of them to flip their vote and probably use the peer pressure of their colleagues, probably call them into the cloakroom and have the president give him a call. I don't think you're going to get Thomas Massie, but there's a handful of others who are voting no. The fact that a lot of the Freedom Caucus members have already flipped and are voting for it kind of tells you where this is heading. I think they all know this is going to pass. It's just a matter of what can they get for it? What kind of promises can they get?
- [49:07]
Political Commentator
Well, what kind of promises they can get is a key question here. You may be optimistic. We will see. But you do know a fair number of things that does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
- [49:26]
Woody Harrelson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody KNOWS your name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.