← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Psaki reviews a shocking litany of political targeting by Trump's DOJ
00:42:03
Jen Psaki reviews the shocking litany of political targeting by Donald Trump's Justice Department, from investigations and indictments to raids of political opponents led by disgraced FBI Director Kash Patel.
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms, but progress isn't guaranteed. Today. Those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs, with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 511511. Text MSNOW to 511511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply.
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
Check.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Okay, there is so much to talk about tonight, but let me just remember this. You probably remember that just last month, the intrepid journalist Sarah Fitzpatrick at the Atlantic published a blockbuster story based on interviews with more than two dozen sources. A lot of sources, including current and former FBI officials. And the story alleged that FBI Director Kash Patel's drinking has been a recurring source of concern across the government. Sources told Fitzpatrick that Patel is known to drink to the point of obvious intoxication. They said that morning meetings had to be rescheduled for later in the day because of Patel's alcohol fueled nights. Multiple sources even told Fitzpatrick that at one point security officials had requested breaching equipment. You know, the kind of stuff SWAT teams use to break doors down because Patel had become unreachable behind locked doors. And when the Atlantic prepared to publish that story, Patel dared them to print it, saying it was all false and that he would see them in court. Now, Patel has, in fact, followed through on that threat. He followed through quite quickly. He has sued the Atlantic for defamation and demanded $250 million in damages. So that's where the story stood going into today as of last night. And then this morning, Emma Snaus Kandelanean and Carol Lennick were broke the news that the FBI has launched a criminal leak investigation focused on Sarah Fitzpatrick and her piece on Kash Patel in the Atlantic. Amos now has two sources, two people familiar with the matter who have confirmed the existence of that investigation. But the FBI is denying it. A spokesperson for the Bureau saying that the story was completely false and that no such investigation exists and that Sarah Fitzpatrick is not being investigated as at all. Okay, we'll see. Now that was this morning. And then tonight, even though Sarah Fitzpatrick is already being sued by Kash Patel, and even though she may be being criminally investigated by Kash Patel's FBI, Tonight, the Atlantic, Sarah Fitzpatrick published yet another incredible story about. Ding, ding, ding. You guessed it, Cash Patel. Now, in this one, eight people familiar with the matter, including yet again, current and former FBI officials, told Fitzpatrick that it is not unusual for Patel to travel with a supply of personalized branded bourbon. Who among us? Now, the 750 milliliter bottle that he travels with is engraved with Cash Patel's name and title, FBI Director Klassie, as well as the symbol of the FBI shield. Now, if you look just below the shield on the screen, you will see Cash Patel's name yet again, but this time spelled his preferred way, of course, with a dollar sign instead of an S. Again, stay classy, Kash Patel. Stay classy. Patel is also appears to have signed some bottles, writing his signature and then the number nine, presumably because he's the ninth person to hold the title of the Director of the FBI, which leads me to believe he has spent an awful lot of time on this particular merch project. Right? Now, Fitzpatrick also writes that Patel has distributed these self branded bottles to staff and civilians while on official business, including during at least one FBI event. And that Patel has even used Justice Department aircraft to transport cases of his bourbon merch. Now, when the Atlantic reached out for comment, the FBI didn't even dispute that Patel has been giving out these branded booze bottles. Instead, a spokesperson said that Patel has followed all applicable ethical guidelines and, and pays for any personal gifts himself and portrayed the gifting of booze, bourbon, personalized bourbon, as routine, saying that the bottles in question are part of a tradition in the FBI that started well over a decade ago. Is it now? And guess what? When Fitzpatrick tried to fact check that statement, it fell completely apart. The FBI declined to provide images of bottles bearing the names of any past directors. Maybe because they don't exist. And when Fitzpatrick asked a former senior FBI official if he had ever seen any personally branded liquor bottles distributed by any previous FBI directors, he burst out laughing. Now, the story here is it's not just that Cash Patel allegedly drinks a lot. By this point, we've all seen him drinking with our own eyes. We all remember that visual. The story is that Kash Patel allegedly drinks a ton at work as the boss in. In a workplace that traditionally has had a zero tolerance approach to drinking on the job and even the abuse of alcohol off duty because it is our chief law enforcement agency. As one former FBI agent told Fitzpatrick, the bottles are demoralizing as they suggest one set of standards for the FBI's director and another for the rest of the bureau. Now the lawyer for another former agent, former assistant director in charge of the FBI's Washington Field Office, Stephen Jensen, told Fitzpatrick, quote, there are line agents out there spending their nights and weekends trying to finish warrants, write reports, plan arrests. Yet the FBI director apparently has the time to design logos, go to hockey games, sit for multi hour podcast interviews. This is one of the most serious jobs in the country, not a vehicle for self promotion and branding. That's very well stated. Now, when Fitzpatrick published her first big scoop about Cash Patel last month, part of what was so amazing about it was, was that she had more than two dozen sources. I spoke to her that very night that the piece came out, and she told me that even more people from inside the bureau were already trying to talk to her, trying to tell her about Kash Patel, and they weren't doing that lightly.
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Reporter/Correspondent (Carol Lennick)
These are not the types of people who are willing to speak out outside of the FBI, especially right now, because Kash Patel is going after people with polygraphs in a way that has never happened at the bureau. So for it to be this level of alarm, this is people genuinely concerned that America is in danger as a result of this conduct. And I feel, you know, a real responsibility to take care of that reporting incredibly carefully.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Sarah Fitzpatrick said that those people spoke to her last month because they worried about the safety of our country with this guy in charge of keeping us safe. That guy right there. There you go with Kristine Ohm. And now even with a potential criminal investigation to leakers and a massive defamation lawsu, more people have come forward to say that they do not think Kash Patel's behavior is fit for his office. Now, I want you to just keep that story in your head. I want you to just think about how hard the FBI is working to try to catch leakers who say bad things about Cash Patel's personal behavior. And I want you to compare that to this breaking news. Now, a very influential Democrat from Virginia, state Senator Luis Lucas, is at the center of a major FBI corruption investigation right now. In fact, agents are executing search warrants across the commonwealth, including her office. Alex Hogan is in Portsmouth, Virginia. Alex. Now, this morning, when the FBI raided the office of a prominent Democratic state official in Virginia. Fox News was on the scene. They had camera crews on location ready to film as SWAT teams and FBI vans raided Virginia State Senator Louise Lucas office and nearby businesses. And that is pretty impressive considering that Portsmouth, Virginia, you can see it on the map. There is about a three hour drive from Fox's office in D.C. it is 200 miles away. Now, maybe Fox just got lucky. Maybe they just had a reporter around the corner just kind of hanging out in Portsmouth and a whole camera crew when it started, when the raid started. But it strikes me as a lot more plausible that someone in the FBI leaked the timing of the raid to them. Now, while Louise Lucas is a huge deal in Virginia politics, she's the speaker of the state Senate, she's primarily known on the national stage for just one thing. Earlier this year, she led the effort to redraw the state's congressional maps, which would help could help Democrats win another four seats in the midterms and counterbalance the gerrymandering Republicans have done in other states. And the raid was reportedly part of an investigation that opened under the Biden administration that examined potential corruption and bribery. But beyond that, the Department of Justice has not released any information. Now, we don't have, as I've said, any real details on the reasoning for the raid or what exactly they're accusing Lucas of doing. So is it plausible there was actual wrongdoing by Lucas? Sure, it's plausible, but the context is everything here because a source familiar with the matter tells MSNOW's Carol Lennox that Trump's former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, the district where this investigation is likely based on, believed bringing a case against Louise Lucas would be good for the White House. That bringing a bribery case against a prominent Democrat before the midterms would be good for the White House, even though other prosecutors at the office were not sure about the strength of the case. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? As Virginia's Attorney General Jay Jones put it today, we simply do not have sufficient information about the reported FBI activity in Portsmouth. However, several previous actions of the U.S. attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Virginia and have undermined public confidence in that office. I urge everyone to exercise restraint and judgment until the relevant facts are known in this matter. Now, there's a lot of stories going on. I just want you to keep that story in your head. I want you to think about how the FBI raided the office of a prominent Democratic lawmaker right after she did something Trump did not like and how Fox News Just happened to be there to film it. I want you to think about that and compare it to this, because yesterday we learned that the Justice Department has agreed to, quote, return or destroy evidence seized from MAGA Republican Congressman Andy Ogles. And if the name Andy Ogles isn't ringing any bells, it's probably because former Congressman Jorge Santos, you remember that guy, sort of stole his thunder for a while. Because for a while, the two seemed to be competing for the title of the most prolific liar in Congress. I mean, according to local Tennessee news reports, Ogles claimed to be an economist. But it turned out he had only ever actually taken one single community college economics course and he barely passed it. He claimed to have served for years on the board of directors of a city that it turns out, does not have a board of directors at all. I could go on, but you get the point here, right? Back in 2024, the FBI seized Andy Ogles phone as part of an investigation. You see, among the things Andy Ogles appears to have lied about were campaign contributions. A serious thing to lie about. He claimed that he had donated $320,000 to his own campaign back in 2022. But it turned out that the congressman appeared to be broke in his financial disclosures. He did not appear to even have a checking or a savings account of any kind. Now, Ogles later admitted that he had not in fact donated $320,000 to his own campaign, but he never really explained why. He apparently lied about all of it. And campaign contributions are serious business. There are a lot of laws involved. So the FBI seized Ogle's phone. That was at the end of 2024. But guess what? When Trump took office last year, suddenly, just 11 days into Trump's new term, the career prosecutors handling the case withdrew from it. The case was handed up to be run completely out of main justice in Washington D.C. now, at the same time Ogles was in the running, he put himself in the running for, I should say, a new highly competitive title. Biggest suck up to Donald Trump. And he did a lot to try to get there. He introduced a bill to give Trump the power to buy Greenland. He nominated Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. And maybe most amazingly, Ogles proposed a constitutional amendment to allow Trump to serve a third term. He even specifically worded that amendment so it would only allow third terms from presidents who hadn't served two consecutive terms, meaning it would let Trump serve a third term. But not Obama. There you go. And now, after all that sucking up the investigation to Obels lying about a massive campaign contribution seems to be just quietly going away in a vacuum. Each of these stories individually are reason for concern about what is happening at the Justice Department right now. But taken together, they are a blaring alarm. And when you put them in the context of the past year, it's all the worse. The Justice Department has investigated or charged so many perceived Trump enemies, it is genuinely getting hard to track. And we may miss people in this list. Former FBI Director James Comey, former CIA Director John Brennan, New York Attorney General Letitia James, Senator Mark Kelly, Senator Alyssa Slatkin, Congressman Maggie Goodlander, Congressman Jason Crow, Congresswoman Christy Houlihan, Congressman Chris d' Aluzio, Former National Security Advisor John Bolton, Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, Senator Adam Schiff, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, St. Paula Mayor Kelly Herr, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty. The list is just unfathomable at this point, but the pattern is clear. Trump is using the Justice Department to help his friends and go after his enemies. Last night, former President Barack Obama was issued, he issued a stark warning on exactly this issue during the interview with Stephen Colbert.
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Barack Obama
We can survive a lot bad policy, funky elections. There's a bunch of stuff that, you know, we can overcome. We can't overcome the politicization of the criminal justice system, the awesome power of the state. You can't have a situation in which whoever's in charge of the government starts using that to go after their political enemies or reward their friends.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Could not think of two better people to help us try and make sense of all this news tonight. Andrew Weissman is the former general counsel of the FBI. Tim Weiner is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter who has reported extensively on the history and inner workings of the bureaucracy. He's the author of the book enemies inside the FBI, and his latest book is called the The CIA in the 21st Century. Very apt reading. Everybody should get to reading. That's very applicable right now. Andrew, let me start with you. Let's just start with Kash Patel, because as I just tried to outline here, the FBI is now investigating, reportedly the Atlantic Sarah Fitzpatrick, the same time that the director is personally suing the Atlantic for a quarter of, of $1 billion. Obviously, none of it has stopped her from continuing to report on Cash Patel, which speaks to her commitment to reporting and her boldness as well. But it just, it doesn't take a lawyer to see this is a massive conflict. What do you, what do you make of all of this?
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Andrew Weissman
Well, of course it is a massive conflict. You can't have the FBI suing civilly and then bringing a criminal case. And the criminal case, I should say, is one where it's hard to see how you could, if the reporting is true and accurate, how it is that there's a crime here that could be criminally investigated. So not only is it conflict, but it seems like an abusive process because there's. Even if everything happened, which is that there was a leak of information to a reporter, it is not a crime to receive information, information from people at the FBI. We're not talking about anything classified. We're talking about something that is simply derogatory information. It's not even a crime for the people at the FBI to have given that information to a reporter because again, it is not classified information that we're talking about. So a massive, massive conflict of interest in order to have the FBI sort of on both sides of this. And I think it's really something that when I think about this and I'm thinking about sort of what is the lesson here? I would go back to the Supreme Court of the United States. Everyone here knows that Supreme Court said that there was immunity, criminal immunity, for bringing sham investigations, and they threw out that part of Jack Smith's criminal grand jury indictment. Well, that means that abusive criminal cases are not subject to any sort of criminal sanction. There is immunity for those. And so I think they really unleashed the kind of thing that we are seeing where you see these sort of abusive investigations. And the president and people doing his bidding are really confident that there is not going to be criminal liability, both because the Supreme Court has as their back and because the president can always just pardon them for any sort of potential criminality on their part. So I think we're in an incredibly dangerous situation given the state of the law here.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
I want to ask you more about that. I just want to level study. Sometimes we all get, not us necessarily, but a lot of people get a little numb to what's happening in this administration, what we talk about nearly every day. I mean, and Tim, former FBI directors, of course, have improperly used Bureau resources for political matters before. But Patel's motive here, to Andrew's point, is clearly personal. I mean, this is his personal behavior they're reporting on. It's not classified information about the work of the Bureau. You know the history of the FBI better than almost anyone level set for us here. How does this all stack up against past abuses of power by the FBI director,
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Tim Weiner
J. Edgar Hoover, who ran the bureau for 48 years had one hard and fast rule for his agents, don't embarrass the Bureau. Cash Patel embarrasses the Bureau with every whiskey scented breath he takes. And beyond the political prosecutions of Trump's enemies like Jim Comey, beyond the harassment of press, what Cash Patel has done to the FBI is conduct an ideological purge at the behest of the President. He has taken down the leaders of the Bureau's national security and intelligence divisions. He has heel hauled pretty much every agent who ever investigated Donald Trump for his theft of classified documents, that he statuted Mar A Lago for the January 6th insurrection, for his pussyfooting with Russian intelligence in the 2016 elections. And the ideological purge has also been going on at the CIA, also been going on at the Justice Department, also at the State Department and the Pentagon. Now, I don't want to compare the two regimes directly, but in Pol Pot's Cambodia, people were purged because they wore glasses, because they could read. And in Donald Trump's America, people are being purged because they can see things clearly.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
It feels very difficult. And thanks to the men and women who are still serving the FBI right now and across and across government. Let me ask you specifically because I think this is important for people to understand the culture inside the bureau. I mean, Patel, there are so many things that you just outlined so perfectly, but his behavior, given this latest reporting, it seems it almost feels like self parody at this point. I mean, it's a guy accused of drinking to excess in using his own position to personally brand bottles of bourbon. Again, it may not be the most important thing that he's doing that's egregious. But talk to us, Tim, a little bit about kind of the culture inside the FBI and how that kind of behavior. Cuz we heard a little bit of this in Sarah's new reporting about how that offended people there and it felt kind of egregious, particularly to them.
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Tim Weiner
The bureau is a very buttoned down place. It's very white, it's very male, it's very conservative. And 98% of the people there are straight arrows. When a QAnon adjacent right wing podcaster with a taste for hopping on the FBI's Gulf Stream and jetting off to the Olympics or to his home in Las Vegas to watch wrestling matches takes over and starts kill hauling people because Donald Trump doesn't like what the Bureau did to run him down for the crimes he committed, it sends a, I think chilling effect is too mild. Word, word. But a wave of Horror through law enforcement professionals to deal with someone who is this unstable, this unreliable, and who is, you know, if he's too drunk to wake up in the morning, as Sarah reliably reported, what if, God forbid, a crisis strikes the United States, we're at war with Iran. Donald Trump has broken or damaged relationships with all our intelligence allies. God forbid a crisis should strike. Will Kash Patel answer the bell?
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
That's a real question. I mean, part of the reporting is that he was drinking to the point where he couldn't be woken up. Andrew, you alluded to, gosh, the moment we're in and we've had so many conversations, and you break this down better than almost anybody. Part of what I think we've learned here is that it's important to fight back and to not just lay down and allow this administration to bully you. And that's easier said than done. I real. It takes a lot of courage to do that. What would you. I mean, Cash Patel suing the Atlantic and its reporter Sarah Fitzpatrick. It seems like there's a lot that could come out of that case that could risk even more embarrassment for Patel. But from a legal perspective, what would you advise the Atlantic to do at this point in time?
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Andrew Weissman
Well, look, the safe thing for the Atlantic to do in that kind of case is to make a motion to dismiss that it's very, very hard for a public figure to win a defamation case. And, of course, as you know, being a journalist, truth is a defense. But one thing that I think the Atlantic could consider doing, because, remember, it is in journalism, and if it really has the goods, and it certainly appears that they do, having now doubled down on two stories, which and have multiple, multiple reported sources, is actually essentially call Cash Patel's bluff and say, you know what? We want to go to trial. You say that we don't have the goods. You say that this is not true. Let's go to trial now and make him have to sit for a deposition, let him have to testify. Remember, it's a civil case, so he can be called under oath to testify about all of this and to have to say under oath whether this is true or not true. So to me, that would be. Obviously, it's not the safest course, but it also, from a journalist perspective, is, you know, something that could bring a lot of attention to the veracity of their story and denigrate Cash fatality. One very quick thing, Jen, I want to say, having worked for Robert Mueller, the idea of besmirching each and every former director of the FBI you know, Robert Mueller was somebody who had to, for every speech he gave, you had to categorically take out the word I. The idea that he just would refuse to talk about himself. And that is true. That same sort of ethos of many other directors, Louis Free was built in the same mold. Chris Wray was built in the same mold. Even if you disagree with their policies and the way they handle the bureau, they just the idea that they would both be giving out liquor and selling merch about themselves is, is so deplorable that that's something that Cash Patel is doing.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Andrew Weissman, Tim Weiner, thank you both so much for being here with me tonight. You're welcome. Coming up, do you want real investigations into all of these insane allegations about Kash Patel? I bet you do. Do you want Kash Patel to answer questions under oath about all of this? So does my next guest and he's going to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee if and when Democrats win back the House. Congressman Jamie Raskin is standing by and he joins me.
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Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms, but progress isn't guaranteed. Today, those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 51151 1. Text MSNOW to 511511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply this summer.
- [26:41]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Here's something that is very, very, very important to remember right now. If Democrats win back the House in November, the gavel for chairman of the powerful House Judiciary Committee will pass to Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. Now, a few weeks ago, after the Atlantic's bombshell reporting, we just talked about revealed details about Kash Patel's alleged excessive drinking and completely erratic behavior. Congressman Ruskin sent to Trump's FBI director this letter you can see it on your screen. It's available online, too, which included a number of question those alleged drinking habits as well as a request that Patel take an alcohol use screening test. And my guess is after this brand new reporting from the Atlantic tonight about Patel's personalized bourbon stash, Congressman Raskin has more questions. And again, all of Congressman Raskin's questions and all of Congressman Raskin's letters could turn into subpoenas and investigations very, very soon. Joining me now is Congressman Jamie Raskin, top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. I know you had a lot of questions and people should read it. We'll share it so people can read it. The letter you wrote to Cash Patel around the first story here after the Atlantic published its first story back in April. Now we have this follow up. What new questions do you have about what is happening at Trump's FBI under Kash Patel?
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
Well, the reports keep coming out of chaos in the office and absentee director and, you know, drinking during the working day and so on. And their response to all these things is to try to go after the reporters, to either try to determine whether they can get any goods on the reporters, whether there's any dirt on them searching through FBI databases, or alternatively to crack down on the so called leakers involved. Well, how about dealing with the underlying problem, which was what our letter was about originally? I mean, the, the original Atlantic report quoted or paraphrased at least something like 20 different people about this. It seems kind of far fetched and nonsensical to suggest that all of this was just made up. And if Cash Patel is willing to go ahead and sue the Atlantic, then apparently he's got nothing to be afraid of. He should respond to this questionnaire, which is used for public sector workers all the time, or private sector workers, about whether there's a drinking problem that is interfering with their ability to do their job. And since nobody else in the Trump administration will deal with the issue, I think that Congress has got to exercise its oversight powers.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
A lot of people, you referenced a number of sources. There are a lot of sources for this news story, too. People have come forward to speak with Sarah Fitzpatrick and other reporters. People also have come forward and have wanted to talk to Congress or have talked to some Democrats in Congress. What should a whistleblower, what should people understand out there about whistleblower protections that Congress has for whistleblowers? And what should a whistleblower do if there's somebody watching who has information that works in the FBI or the Justice Department or Wherever they may be, they, maybe they don't have a lawyer. What do they do if they want to speak with Congress?
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
Well, first of all, the Judiciary Committee, like other committees in Congress, can be approached by people either by phone call, by 1-800-number, they can write to us, they can email us. They have a right to give us information about misconduct or criminal activity that are taking place in any part of the government, in any department of the government. The Whistleblower Protection act protects people against retaliation because they reported misconduct, civil or criminal misconduct taking place inside the government. So people, you know, have a right to know their, what their rights are and what their responsibilities are. But obviously it's a serious thing for people to consider coming forward. And so we try to operate with complete confidentiality and total respect for whatever situation they're in. Now, people who go to the press are in, you know, a somewhat different situation about that. But in any event, there should be no retaliation against people just for telling the truth about what's taking place in our government. And that just violates the First Amendment of the Constitution. People have a right to speak. And, you know, rather than engage in some kind of hopeless, fruitless cover up cash Patel should try to deal with what the real issues are. And that goes generally for the administration across every kind of corruption taking place in all of the different departments and agencies.
- [32:27]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Congressman Jamie Raskin, I hope you're getting rest. You're going on hikes, you're caring for yourself because if Democrats win back the House, you're going to have a lot on your plate. Thank you as always for being here with us tonight.
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
You betcha.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Okay, coming up, Donald Trump's Commerce secretary, Howard Loutnik finally went behind closed doors to answer questions about Jeffrey Epstein and about visiting Epstein's island. And one Democrat's said if Donald Trump sees the transcript of that deposition, he'll fire him. I'm gonna tell you why it was such a disaster and everything we know about it when we come back.
- [33:04]
Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms. But progress isn't guaranteed. Today, those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text Ms. Now to 511-511-Text Ms. Now to 511-511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply. Let's check in on the serta Counting sheep.
- [33:36]
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
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- [33:42]
Andrew Weissman
relieve aches and back pain.
- [33:43]
Juliana Stratton
We'll never get counted again.
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Commercial Voice
Uh, nope.
- [33:46]
Narrator/Announcer
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- [33:49]
Howard Lutnick
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Today, Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, sat for a closed door interview with Congress to answer questions about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. And according to the Democrats in that room, well, didn't go great.
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Commentator/Analyst
Well, now we know why that interview was not videotaped. If Donald Trump had seen the video transcript, he would have fired Howard Lutnick. It was really embarrassing.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
For months now, Lutnick has struggled to answer basic questions about whether or not he misled the public about his relationship with Epstein. It all stems, of course, from an interview Lutnick gave last year in which he claimed to have met Epstein in 2005 and made this snap judgment.
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Howard Lutnick
My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going cuz he's gross.
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Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Never again, says Lutnick. But as we now know, that comment he delivered so confidently was completely false. Thanks to the Epstein files, we know that in 2012, years after Epstein's first arrest and conviction, Lutnick traveled with his family and his multiple nannies for a visit to Epstein Private Epstein's private island. And a year later, in 2013, Epstein's accountant emailed him the resume for someone he called Lutnick nanny, saying he was trying to arrange a meeting between her and Epstein, who has no children, by the way. Also in 2013, Jeffrey Epstein and Howard Lutnick became partners, investing together in a business venture. In 2015, Lutnick invited Epstein to a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton. In 2017, Epstein donated $50,000 to a dinner honoring Lutnick. And as late as 2018, Lutnick and Epstein were still emailing each other about various topics, including, among other things, that business venture they had both invested in. The Epstein files even includes the stock purchase agreement for that venture, which was signed by both Epstein and Lutnick. And curiously, the Justice Department redacted Howard Lutnick's address in that document while leaving everyone else's address visible, including Epstein's that appears to be a violation of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. It's also incredibly silly because, well, where Lutnick lived isn't really a secret. Jeffrey Epstein was your neighbor. East 71st Street. He was your neighbor for 10 years.
- [36:49]
Howard Lutnick
We are in number 11, and he lives in number nine.
- [36:56]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
I mean, now. I will note that Howard Ludnick denies any wrongdoing associated with Epstein as inclusion in the files does not indicate guilt. But Ludnick has definitely been accused of lying about the extent of his relationship with Epstein. And today he admitted that he had, in fact, been with Jeffrey Epstein on many occasions. Yet he apparently still insists that he does not. That doesn't make him a liar.
- [37:21]
Commentator/Analyst
He made a farce of the English language. I mean, he was trying to define I. As if saying that. What he really meant is that he would not see Epstein alone, but be totally fine with having his wife and kids. Kids see Epstein. It made no sense.
- [37:42]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
So he was comfortable with his wife and kids being alone with a known predator, but, nope, he would never be alone with them. I don't know. Ledig also reportedly told the committee that Jeffrey Epstein didn't engage in any blackmailing. Another claim that directly contradicts his past statements.
- [38:00]
Howard Lutnick
This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever blackmailed people. That's how he had money.
- [38:07]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
There's a tape for everything. Clearly, Howard Lutnick was willing to say all kinds of things about Jeffrey Epstein while appearing on the podcast of a conservative tabloid. But once he was actually in front of Congress, once he knew he would actually be accountable for the things he said, his answer suddenly got a whole lot murkier. In many ways, Howard Lutnick is the perfect symbol of Trump's Epstein problem. One day he's playing at the base, talking about how disgusting Epstein is, and the next day he's dodging questions about his own ties to Epste and hoping it all just goes away. Keep on hoping, guys, because it definitely isn't going away. Coming up, my old boss let it rip in a new interview with Stephen Colbert. And he had some very specific advice for Democrats. Juliana Stratton is the Lieutenant Governor of Illinois. She is the next US Senator from Illinois, a state Obama once represented. And we're going to talk about all of it when we come back. Since Donald Trump took office, Democrats have overperformed again and again in elections across the country. And one of the things that stands out about those Democrats is that they've not been cookie cutters of each other. Different kinds of Democrats have been successful for different reasons. And that diversity has raised questions about which wing of the party the next leader should emerge from. But my old boss, Barack Obama just made clear maybe that's not exactly the right question to be asking
- [39:33]
Barack Obama
with respect to Democrats. I'm not as worried about this so called rift between the left and liberals as you describe it, because I think that within the Democratic Party, and I would argue a bunch of independents and even some Republicans as well, there's an overarching belief in equality, fairness. What I'm more interested in for Democrats is do you know how to just talk to regular people? Like we're not in a college seminar? Right. You know, can you talk plain English to folks?
- [40:15]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Talk in plain English. Pretty direct. Couldn't agree more. Well, my next guest is a Democrat who found success in part doing just that.
- [40:25]
Juliana Stratton
I'm not scared of a wannabe dictator. I'm running for Senate to stand up to Donald Trump. I'll abolish ICE and hold Trump accountable for the crimes he's committed, just like they said.
- [40:36]
Andrew Weissman
Trump.
- [40:36]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Trump.
- [40:37]
Tim Weiner
Trump.
- [40:38]
Commentator/Analyst
Vote Giuliana.
- [40:39]
Juliana Stratton
That's why I approve this message.
- [40:42]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
That was obviously a campaign ad. Joining me now is Illinois Lieutenant Governor Juliana Stratten, who is currently running to represent her state in the U.S. senate. It's so great to see you. I think you're gonna be such an important voice in the Senate come January. Let me start. I wanna just look big picture because last night a Democrat won a special election in Michigan by 19 points in a district that Kamala Harris won by just one point. This is just one example of over performance. You just ran in a primary. You won that primary, of course. What's your take on how Democrats are doing, but also kind of how they continue this momentum forward to November?
- [41:20]
Juliana Stratton
Well, I think what we are doing is we're speaking to what people care about. And I think one of the issues has always been, number one, are we trying to tell people what they should care about or are we listening to voters and then parroting back to them? This is what we're hearing from you. This is what I'm going to fight for. And not just trusting someone else to have some talking points or whatever. We need to listen to people about what they care about, what's affecting them on an everyday basis. And I think that's what's resonating with people. But I think also right now, people are just fed up with what's happening in Washington and what they want is someone who's going to fight for them. I've heard that more than anything from voters I want someone who's going to go to the Met fighting for me. I'm tired of every single day, no matter who's in the White House, feeling like my life isn't getting any better, that no one is paying attention to what's happening in my life on a day to day basis. And that's what I think really in my race, really resonated that I was going to be that fighter and that I was going to get to Washington and not forget about the people. And that's what we have to do.
- [42:25]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
I know you agree that Democrats need to speak more in plain English, because I watched your campaign and you speak in plain English and you were nodding along as we were watching the clip of Barack Obama. What are the issues you think? And listening is such a key part of it. There's never enough listening. What are the issues you think Democrats can talk about better in more plain English? About?
- [42:44]
Juliana Stratton
Well, even when we talk about the issue of affordability and we hear that word, but we can talk about specifically through storytelling and other, you know, means what is happening in someone's life, that it's hard to put food on the table, that I have a daughter right now. I tell the story who gets her health care under the aca. She's an independent contractor. And she called to talk about how her premiums went up from the end of 2025 and how much more it's going to be in 2026. And because of that, here's what I have to do. I'm going to get the lowest level of benefits possible. I don't want that for anyone. So we have to talk about those real struggles that every day, not just Illinoisans, but Americans are facing. And I think we need more people in Washington who understand what those struggles are. I mean, people are very frustrated with feeling like the ultra wealthy just keep getting wealthier while everyday Americans get, you know, left behind. And I think we have to really make sure that the people who get to Washington are people who know those struggles, who understand what it's like to try to budget for groceries or how one health care bill could really, you know, be really damaging to their budget.
- [44:00]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
We only have about a minute left. I wish there was more time. One of the things I think a lot of we've been talking about investigations and cash Patel and other people all the course of the night is this question of, and you're going to come into the Senate, you're going to be an important voice. How much do you think investigations and holding the Trump administration accountable should be as a part of the work that the bodies of Congress do versus kind of other priorities.
- [44:23]
Juliana Stratton
Well, it's critically important to me that we investigate and to the extent that we can hold this president and his administration accountable for their abuses of power in Illinois, we have the Illinois Accountability Commission to address what happened with Operation Midway Blitz as ICE agents terrorized our communities. He's not always going to be president, but we have to be a check. We have to fight and we have to stand up. And that's what people deserve, that we hold this president accountable. And that's what I'm going to do when I get to the Senate.
- [44:54]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
I think everybody watching right now can't wait for that to happen. It was great to have you here in person. Thank you again for being here.
- [45:00]
Juliana Stratton
Thanks for having me.
- [45:01]
Host/Anchor (possibly Jen Psaki)
Okay, we have to take a quick break, but the Last Word has Senator Cory Booker standing by. He's always great to hear from. We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [45:19]
Narrator/Announcer
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