Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Rep. Himes shares shocking details from boat strikes briefing; disputes key points in reported story
Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into two headline stories:

1. Rep. Jim Himes’ jaw-dropping account of a closed-door congressional briefing on the U.S. Navy’s controversial September 2nd strike on a suspected Venezuelan drug boat, and the targeting of shipwreck survivors—actions characterized as possible war crimes.
2. Falls out from the Signal Gate scandal involving Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, and a roundtable on the Pentagon’s new, restrictive relationship with the press, joined by former Pentagon reporter Barbara Starr and ex-Washington Post executive editor Marty Baron.

Psaki’s interviews unearth key details contradicting public Pentagon justifications and question the legality and morality of U.S. military conduct, while also casting doubt on Trump administration’s transparency and respect for military and journalistic norms.

Key Segments and Discussion Points

1. The September 2nd Boat Strike Scandal: Setting the Scene

[02:39–08:19]

• Psaki recaps events: A U.S. operation destroyed a suspected Venezuelan drug boat, then launched a second strike to kill shipwrecked survivors—a textbook war crime, per many observers.
• Contradictions in Official Stories: Multiple media reports, heavily sourced to defense officials, argued the survivors were attempting to resume smuggling using a radio, justifying their killing.
• **Psaki highlights how Congress, and specifically Rep. Himes, got to see unedited strike video and question Navy commander Admiral Frank Bradley, the officer who oversaw the operation.

2. Rep. Jim Himes: An Unprecedented Account

[08:19–18:52]

The Video and the Legal/Moral Case

• Himes: Most Disturbing Ever Seen

  • "What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service."
    (Rep. Jim Himes, 02:39 & 08:46)
  • Describes video: Two individuals, obviously in distress, their boat destroyed, clinging to wreckage, "without any visible means of survival," then killed by the U.S.
  • Lays out the legal standard: Under the laws of armed conflict, once combatants are rendered “hors de combat”—unable to fight—they cannot be lawfully killed.

• Moral, Legal, and Humanitarian Violations

  • "There's just no way to get away from the fact that the United States killed two individuals who were shipwrecked and in massive distress... anybody who sees that video would have real questions about whether the United States is abiding by the values that distinguish us around the world." (Himes, 09:41)
  • Maritime law requires rendering aid to distressed mariners; instead, "we killed them." (Himes, 12:44)

Disputing Pentagon’s and Hegseth’s Justifications

• Fog of War? Not So Much

  • Secretary Hegseth claimed he couldn't see survivors due to fire, smoke (“fog of war”).
  • Himes: “What Pete Hegseth said with respect to the fog of war is simply inaccurate.”
    (Himes, 11:08)
  • The video allowed close, hours-long observation; "this was not a fog of war issue."

• No Radio, No Communications, No Threat

  • Reports suggested survivors were radioing for help—Pentagon's main justification.
  • Himes: “There was no radio. There were two individuals clinging to flotsam... There wasn't weaponry of any kind. There wasn't a radio. There was no means for them to communicate...”
    (16:24)

Command Responsibility: Who Gave the Order?

• Multiple narratives: Hegseth distanced himself, claiming he wasn’t present for the second strike; Admiral Bradley told Himes there was no direct “kill them all” order and that Hegseth wasn’t in the room when the order for the second strike was given (13:20).
• Himes: Even if no explicit order, responsibility cannot be delegated by senior leaders. The attempt to pin it solely on Admiral Bradley is “completely inconsistent with military culture.” (14:39)
• The shifting justifications: initial rationale was “sea safety,” later changed; even Admiral Bradley had no clear answer for the evolving official stories.

The Importance of Transparency

• Himes calls for the American public to see the unedited video for themselves.
  • “You need to see two terrified men clinging to the wreckage… These are guys that probably didn’t have a lot of economic opportunity, made a terrible decision to participate in the drug trade... The United States looked at those two and said, 'We are going to use the full force...' rather than rendering assistance, rather than capturing them.” (17:09)

3. Signal Gate: Pentagon Opacity and Press Freedom

[21:07–33:13]

The Inspector General’s Report and Fallout

• Signal Gate: Secretary Hegseth used a personal phone and a Signal group chat—including a journalist—to share classified details about an impending military strike.
• IG report confirms he “created a risk to operational security that could have resulted in failed U.S. mission objectives and potential harm to U.S. pilots.”
• Hegseth never let investigators access his phone; the Signal group chat was set to auto-delete, making oversight impossible.

Media Roundtable: The Press Sidelined

• Barbara Starr (ex-Pentagon reporter):
  • Dismisses notion Hegseth could unilaterally "declassify" info by posting it in a Signal chat: “Very specific procedures must be followed. Just putting it on your own phone and emailing it doesn’t make it unclassified.”
    (25:10)
  • On Signal Gate: “It’s the latest example of how fearful he is of being caught out... They’ve decided on this new line. Nothing to see here except there’s plenty to see.”
    (25:10)
• Marty Baron (ex-Washington Post):
  • On the Pentagon’s new rules restricting reporters: “An outrageous policy... they want a bunch of stenographers and propagandists, people who will be a mouthpiece for the administration.” (26:50)
  • Invokes George Orwell: “Liberty means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear, and to ask questions they may not want to answer.”
    (31:41)

International Fallout

• Starr warns that France and Britain are now wary of sharing intelligence with the U.S.: “You want U.S. troops... to be treated appropriately [if captured]. Already we are seeing Britain and France being very cautious about sharing information.”
  (30:11–30:30)

The Shrinking of Real Press Access

• Baron: The Pentagon’s chosen “press corps” is made up of figures like Matt Gaetz and Laura Loomer, not real journalists. “They’re basically inviting only people who will be their mouthpiece to ask these softball questions, which are hardly questions at all.” (32:27)

4. DOJ Failures and Legal News: Letitia James and DOJ Politicization

[34:58–39:10]

• After the Trump DOJ tried, and failed (twice), to indict NY Attorney General Letitia James, senior legal reporter Lisa Rubin and Rep. Dan Goldman discuss politicization and the damaging effects on the Justice Department.
• Goldman on repeated failures to indict:
  • “We can't normalize the notion that a grand jury may or may not indict... It just goes to show how vindictive... Donald Trump is insisting... on a case so clearly meritless.” (40:38)
  • "It is absolutely destroying the Department of Justice." (41:56)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Time | Speaker | Quote | |------------|------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:39 | Rep. Himes | "What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service." | | 09:41 | Rep. Himes | "There's just no way to get away from the fact that the United States killed two individuals who were shipwrecked..." | | 11:08 | Rep. Himes | "What Pete Hegseth said with respect to the fog of war is simply inaccurate." | | 13:20 | Rep. Himes | "The Secretary apparently... gave no 'kill them all' order... and was not in the room when the Admiral gave the order." | | 14:39 | Rep. Himes | "Responsibility cannot be delegated by senior leaders. You can delegate authority, but you cannot delegate responsibility."| | 16:24 | Rep. Himes | "There was no radio. There were two individuals clinging to flotsam. That's what there was..." | | 17:09 | Rep. Himes | "America needs to see two clearly distressed shipwrecked individuals... the US military... end[ed] these two lives..." | | 25:10 | B. Starr | "There are very specific procedures... Just putting it on your own phone and emailing it doesn’t make it unclassified." | | 26:50 | M. Baron | "They want a bunch of stenographers and propagandists, people who will be a mouthpiece for the administration." | | 31:41 | M. Baron | "Liberty means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." | | 40:38 | D. Goldman | "We can't normalize the notion that a grand jury may or may not indict... It's truly remarkable." | | 41:56 | D. Goldman | "It is absolutely destroying the Department of Justice." |

Key Takeaways

• Classified Briefing Exposed Contradictions: Rep. Himes’ exclusive access revealed the official Pentagon narrative—especially regarding survivor communications—was false, and that U.S. forces killed incapacitated, shipwrecked men.
• Officials Deflect Responsibility: Secretary Hegseth sought to pin the decision on Admiral Bradley, but Himes and Psaki emphasize that military tradition demands senior leaders take responsibility, not just delegate blame.
• Legal and Moral Concerns: The strike appears to violate both the laws of armed conflict ("hors de combat") and maritime law (requiring aid to distressed individuals). Himes and Psaki both raise the specter of war crimes.
• Pentagon Press Crackdown: The real press has been evicted in favor of “propagandists,” raising alarms about government transparency, accountability, and public right-to-know.
• International Trust Eroding: Allies now hesitate to share intelligence; U.S. actions risk setting a precedent for the mistreatment of U.S. personnel.
• DOJ Politicization: Multiple failed attempts to indict Letitia James highlight an unprecedented misuse of prosecutorial power against political opponents, weakening institutional credibility.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This hour captured a critical, disturbing moment in U.S. defense and democracy. Through detailed, first-hand revelation from Rep. Himes and expert analysis from journalists and legal experts, the episode dismantled the official story about the boat strike, exposed Pentagon and DOJ efforts to evade scrutiny, and shone a light on the dangerous slide toward secrecy, propaganda, and politicized law enforcement in America.