Republicans despair as tanking Trump takes them down with him

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: "Republicans despair as tanking Trump takes them down with him"
Date: July 15, 2026
Host: Jen Psaki
Featured Guests: Sen. Jon Ossoff, Pete Buttigieg, Brian Tyler Cohen

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the political turmoil gripping the Republican Party as they struggle with Donald Trump's erratic leadership and the growing electoral backlash. Jen Psaki examines the week's biggest stories, focusing on the mounting despair among Republican lawmakers over Trump's decisions, persistent conspiracy theories, and damaging policy reversals—especially his recent pivots on foreign policy, immigration, and election integrity. The episode features candid interviews with Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff and former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, ending with practical advice from political commentator Brian Tyler Cohen about communicating political ideas in today's divided climate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Republican Despair Amid Trump’s Erratic Leadership

• Private GOP Frustrations: Republicans increasingly believe Trump is leading them to disaster in the fall midterms, referencing his instability and unpopular policy reversals (01:09–01:29).
  • Jon Ossoff: "Privately, most elected Republicans in this building think the President has lost it and is dooming them to dismal losses this fall." (01:14)
• Foreign Policy Whiplash: Trump reversed positions on Iran, oscillating between peace talks and renewed military attacks, causing oil prices to spike and global uncertainty (01:43–03:02).
  • Trump (quoted): “We’re going to keep the strait and we’ll probably run it...We should be reimbursed for that.” (02:40)
• ICE Enforcement Backlash: Deadly ICE tactics—first in the streets and then shifted to vehicular stops—sparked protests and further eroded GOP Senate candidates’ support in key states (04:00–05:30).
• Controversial Legal Settlements: Trump’s efforts to personally benefit from legal settlements have triggered widespread criticism and legal scrutiny, forcing the GOP to defend more scandals (05:30–07:03).

2. Trump’s Upcoming Speech: More Conspiracy Theories

• Announcement of Prime-Time Address: Trump plans to address election security, promising to release declassified documents to reinforce false 2020 election claims (07:10–09:00).
  • Internal White House divisions over enabling Trump’s demands; reliance on aides who promote conspiracies (07:58).
  • Potential focus on Georgia, targeting Sens. Ossoff and Warnock’s legitimacy before the midterms.

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Interview: Sen. Jon Ossoff on Trump’s Georgia Obsession and GOP Defections

Why is Trump giving a speech now, and what’s at stake?

• Political and Social Fallout:
  • “The American public [is] broadly furious with the president for war and tariffs and healthcare cuts...He’s more concerned with lining his own pockets.” (09:09)
  • Trump’s fixation with Georgia is rooted in anger at Black voters' role in his defeat (10:54–12:01).

The Threat to Voting Rights

• New Methods of Voter Suppression: Ossoff warns that Trump’s “ongoing effort is to delegitimize, disenfranchise voters, and spread conspiracy theories.” (12:01)
• Risks for Georgia: Trump’s focus actively undermines local Republicans and escalates threats to voting rights (12:25–13:16).
  • “His obsession with Georgia hurts Georgia Republicans...Putting politics aside, I’m concerned about the defense of voting rights.” (12:25)

Prospects for Further Damage

• Trump may try to use the Thursday address as a pretext for federal intervention or to inspire state/local disruption (13:35–14:19).
  • “If you're working in the Trump administration right now...this is the last chance to jump ship and speak out because you will be forever tainted by your association…” (14:06)

Republicans "in Despair" but Unwilling to Act

• GOP Private vs. Public Positions: Many Republicans privately have “contempt for the president” yet remain unwilling or unable to act openly against him (14:49).
  • “We should not hold out hope for a sudden outbreak of courage and integrity and spine marks among elected Republicans.” (14:52)

On Intelligence and Oversight

• Concerns on Federal Abuse: Ossoff signals skepticism about new nominees like Jay Clayton for Intelligence roles due to fears of continued political abuse (16:07–17:12).

Memorable Quote:

“Donald Trump is incapable of letting anything go. He does not care that his pursuits are unpopular with the American people and a drag on his party’s reelection chances in many parts of the country.” — Jen Psaki (07:37)

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Interview: Pete Buttigieg on Democratic Message & Post-Trump Rebuilding (19:17–40:40)

Campaigning in Red States and Swing Districts

• Broadening the Coalition: Buttigieg stresses the need to campaign everywhere, including in red districts, harnessing widespread public discontent over war, high prices, and corruption (21:51–23:09).
• Welcoming Disillusioned Voters: Inviting Trump voters into the Democratic coalition not by moderating values but by focusing on shared concerns—healthcare, economic fairness, anti-corruption (23:53–25:21).

Rejecting the Status Quo and Pushing Reform

• No Return to “Old Normal”: Democrats must not simply restore institutions to their pre-Trump state; the old systems were already broken (25:42–27:21).
  • “If our economic and political and social systems were working just fine, we wouldn’t be here. So the old status quo can’t be the answer.” (25:50)
• Linking Economic Pain and Political Dysfunction: Buttigieg ties everyday financial struggles to corruption and lack of democratic accountability (26:30–26:58).

Accountability and Long-Term Reform

• Tackling Corruption: Calls for robust Congressional accountability, especially on naked self-enrichment and stock trading scandals (27:39–28:51).
• Big Political Reform: Advocates for structural changes—addressing gerrymandering, money in politics (including constitutional amendments), and fixing Congress and the Supreme Court (25:59–28:51).

Reimagining Governance After Trump

• Institutional Reconstruction: Buttigieg argues against restoring gutted agencies to their former (already flawed) selves, advocating for fundamental redesign alongside restoration (29:45–31:40).
• Preparing for the Next Generation: The challenge is not just short-term victories but building a democracy that will last into America's next centennial (38:04–40:18).
  • “Every time I do break the news to our kids that papa’s going to be on the road for a couple of days, I think about why and what’s at stake and...the answer, of course, is that we’ve got to give them a better world than we’re living in right now.” (40:16)

On Personal Attacks and Public Life

• Buttigieg shares candidly about his family being falsely targeted by CPS, describing the pain and urging that attacks on family are beyond the acceptable bounds of political life (34:28–36:28).

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Interview: Brian Tyler Cohen—How Democrats Should Wield Power (41:16–44:42)

Differing Mindsets: Democrats vs. Republicans

• Democratic Caution vs. GOP Aggression:
  • "Democrats, it feels like when Democrats get into office, they are there to protect the institutions of government as opposed to using those institutions to deliver on outcomes for people." (41:49)
  • By contrast, “Trump will barrel through anything...Democrats need to take that mentality, but to deliver for people.” (42:20)

Priorities for Congressional Democrats

• Immediate Focus on Corruption: Cohen argues for immediate and aggressive investigation into Trump-era corruption, setting the stage for broader reform once Democrats secure power (42:49–43:53).

Effective Political Communication

• Be Yourself, Be Relatable:
  • “If people can talk to their constituents, talk to their potential voters like normal human beings, that would go a long way.” (44:14)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (By Timestamp)

• [01:14] Jon Ossoff: “Privately, most elected Republicans in this building think the President has lost it and is dooming them to dismal losses this fall.”
• [02:40] Trump (quoted): “We’re going to keep the strait and we’ll probably run it...We should be reimbursed for that.”
• [07:37] Jen Psaki: “Donald Trump is incapable of letting anything go. He does not care that his pursuits are unpopular…”
• [09:09] Ossoff: “The American public broadly furious with the president for war and tariffs and health care cuts...”
• [10:54] Ossoff: “He’s obsessed with Georgia because he can’t get over that it was black voters…who were instrumental to his defeat.”
• [14:52] Ossoff: “We should not hold out hope for a sudden outbreak of courage and integrity and spine marks among elected Republicans.”
• [21:51] Buttigieg: “I think it’s important that we reach out everywhere...more and more people, including independents...are ready for something different.”
• [25:50] Buttigieg: “If our economic and political and social systems were working just fine, we wouldn’t be here. So the old status quo can’t be the answer.”
• [29:45] Buttigieg: “If you have a common sense view that you share with most Americans, it will take radical change to actually act on it in today’s Washington.”
• [34:28] Buttigieg: “This hurt a whole family. This didn’t just hurt me...just leave my children out of it.”
• [41:49] Cohen: “Democrats, it feels like when Democrats get into office, they are there to protect the institutions...as opposed to using those institutions to deliver...”
• [44:14] Cohen: “If people can talk to their constituents, talk to their potential voters like normal human beings, that would go a long way.”

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Segment Timestamps Reference

• Republican woes & Trump’s policy chaos: 01:09–07:03
• Trump’s coming conspiracy speech & Ossoff interview: 07:10–17:12
• Buttigieg on the campaign trail & reforms: 19:17–40:40
• Brian Tyler Cohen on wielding power: 41:16–44:42

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode balances serious concern with flashes of wry humor and realism—the typical Psaki blend of sharp analysis, insider candor from guests, and hopeful prescriptions for organizing and reform. The conversations reveal deep cracks within the Republican Party and offer a clear-eyed, actionable vision for Democrats: confront corruption, expand the coalition, think beyond restoring the pre-Trump status quo, and modernize how the party communicates and governs.

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For listeners who haven't tuned in, this episode is a must for insights into current political strategy, dangers facing democratic norms, and the way forward for both parties—especially as the 2026 midterms approach.

Transcript

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I'm going to hug you.

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[Show Host / Interviewer]

Senator Jon Ossoff is going to join me here in just a second and I want to start tonight with something he said to reporters earlier today.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

What do you say to your Republican

[Pete Buttigieg]

colleagues who may agree with the President on this?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I don't know of Republican colleagues who agree with the President. Privately, most elected Republicans in this building think the President has lost it and is dooming them to dismal losses this fall. Thank you all so much for your time.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

So Republicans don't agree with the President on this. Privately, they think the President has lost it and is dooming them to fail. That's quite a thing to say. Now I'm going to tell you exactly what Senator Ossoff was talking about in just a second. But just to give you a little itty bitty hint here, and I'm sure you're already picking up on this, it is definitely related to all the conspiracy theory pushing and the completely unhinged speech which we are probably going to hear Trump deliver on Thursday. But frankly, that statement could actually apply to a whole lot of things because there's no shortage of issues right now where the President is screwing things up in ways that are disastrous for his own party. I mean, take for instance, his unpopular on again, off again war with Iran that he of course started after he spent weeks playing up peace talks with Iran. Weeks? Trump abruptly reversed himself last week and started bombing the country all over again. Iran then reasserted its control over the Strait of Hormuz, sending oil prices spiking. I'm sure you're all experiencing that now. And so yesterday Trump came up with his latest genius idea for how to deal with it all.

[Donald Trump (quoted)]

We're going to keep the strait and we'll probably run it. We'll become the guardian of the strait, Maybe we'll call it the Guardian angel of the Strait. And we should be reimbursed for that. When we do that, we're going to be reimbursed. I want to be reimbursed. Reimbursed because we're protecting a very rich portion of the world. We're spending money. And so what we've done is we are going to be reimbursed for protection.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

We're going to be reimbursed, apparently through a 20% toll on all cargo shipped through the strait. Are you now, never mind. There is no basis for that declaration and no way the United States could implement that without a significant military presence in the strait, which nobody wants. But that was Trump yesterday. Then today he reversed himself again. Just 24 hours later, he walked back all of those proposed plans, deciding that, nevermind, the US Will not put any tolls on chips coming through the strait, which, by the way, they wouldn't be able to implement anyway. But if you are a Republican running for reelection, how do you defend, not just that kind of whiplash, decision making in the middle of a war, a war that had no clear end, that is already deeply unpopular with the American people, How do you defend that? Everybody's experiencing the impacts of that. And that's also hardly the only area where Trump's erratic decisions are becoming even harder for Republicans to defend. I mean, at the beginning of this year, the Trump administration sparked nationwide backlash when ICE officials shot and killed two people in the streets of Minneapolis. We covered this quite a bit on this show. And in response, Trump administration officials insisted that they were shifting immigration enforcement away from the roving street patrols that resulted in those deaths. But Trump refused to back away from his goal of carrying out mass deportations across the country. The fever dream, of course, of Stephen Miller. And so senior ICE officials tell the Atlantic that ICE's tactics have simply shifted to trying to arrest more people in their vehicles. How comforting. Now, those tactics have now led to the deaths of at least two more individuals in Texas and in Maine. And those killings have sparked huge protests in those two states. Two states where, I would note Republicans are desperately trying to hold on to their Senate seats. Dozens of protesters gathered outside of Senator Susan Collins office, chanting, you can hear that. They're saying, vote her out. Vote her out. And so today we got yet another Trump reversal. His administration has now ordered ICE to halt most motor vehicle stops while carrying out operations. But Trump still has not abandoned his demands for sweeping mass deportations. And that's pretty important. And so Republicans are just left to wonder how and when Trump's deadly mass deportation force will spark the next outrage. And where we see this story over and over again. Trump pursues an unpopular policy, then he carries it out in such a haphazard and chaotic way that the resulting collateral damage only makes it more unpopular. And then his party struggles to justify it after it's blown up in their face. We saw it again today, this week, I should say, with Trump's deeply unpopular decision to try and settle a lawsuit with himself to create a $1.8 billion slush fund for his political allies while giving himself and his family broad immunity from tax audits. And any wonder that is hugely unpopular. Not to me. Anyway, Republicans have been desperate to put that whole disaster behind them. Of course they are. But Trump refused to give up on the part of that settlement that benefited him personally, keeping the issue alive. And now this week, a judge has ruled that Trump's lawyers acted in bad faith while negotiating that so called settlement. No kidding. And has ordered sanctions against several people involved in the scheme, including, I would note, Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, who is set to appear before Congress tomorrow for his confirmation hearing. That's going to be a fun one to watch. Which means Republicans will once again be put in a position to defend the indefensible, no matter the damage it is doing to the political party he leads. He can't bring himself to abandon his most unpopular policies, no matter how toxic they may be for his own party. People running for reelection from his own party. Which brings me to his latest terror brain gambit. The thing Jon Ossoff says is dooming the president's party to dismal losses.

[Commercial Announcer]

In part.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

There's probably more we'll talk to him about in a second. The thing he says has convinced Republicans that Trump has, quote, lost it. Trump has announced that this Thursday he will give a primetime address about our nation's elections. Mississippi now has learned that the speech will focus on the security of voting machines and foreign influence in elections. And the president is expected to release declassified intelligence documents on both subjects. As msnow reports, the address follows a year of internal disagreement between different administration factions over how to satisfy the president's demands for information bolstering his false claim that he won the 2020 election, which, as we all know, he is completely obsessed with. And this notably comes as, quote, access to the president has loosened in recent months as Trump has increasingly leaned on aides and senior officials willing to spread conspiracy theories about 2020. That's according to one administration official who says, quote, it's that network of people that is the real effing problem. They try to put bits and pieces together and then make these conclusions. Look, if there's one thing that is clear, it's that Donald Trump is incapable of letting anything go. He does not care that his pursuits are unpopular with the American people and a drag on his party's reelection chances in many parts of the country. He doesn't care that his efforts have failed over and over again. He'll just keep improvising new ways to push his agenda. And some of the documents under consideration for release Thursday relate to Georgia's 2020 rule results in the Senate runoffs that followed, according to two people familiar with the plans. That suggests Trump may use his address to call into question the elections of Georgia's Democratic senators, John Ossoff and Raphael Warnock, ahead of a crucial midterm election in that state. How insane is that? I wonder what Jon Ossoff has to say about all of that. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff of Georgia. He's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Okay, there's so much to be said here, but why do you think Trump is giving this speech and why now?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

So before we get to this matter of the president potentially declaring sitting senators illegitimate, just take a step back that matter.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Yes.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Go ahead and look at the situation. You've got the American public broadly furious with the president for war and tariffs and health care cuts that are making everything more expensive. This palpable anger that he doesn't care about the cost of living crisis. He's more concerned with lining his own pockets. And so now he's pivoting with the election just a few months away. From ballroom obsession to election conspiracy theory obsession, this is politically disastrous for Republicans in Georgia. Remember, the most popular Republican elected official in Georgia is Governor Brian Kemp. He's popular precisely because he didn't help Donald Trump steal the 2020 election. Remember that it's our Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger that Donald Trump badgered and bullied to, quote, find the votes Donald Trump needed to win a state that Donald Trump had lost. Donald Trump tried to commit voter fraud in Georgia in 2021. My opponent, Mike Collins, on the other hand, is a dyed in the wool election denier, Trump loyalist Trump puppet who launched his general election campaign reaffirming his commitment to the big lie that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. And if folks want to help me defeat this MAGA fanatic Congressman in Georgia, it's ElectJohn.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

ElectJon.com okay, so let's go back to Georgia. As you just outlined. You've lived it. He's kind of obsessed with Georgia. Trump is. It's also, he just went in and took voting machines from Fulton county, sent Tulsi Gabbard in there. We all remember her lurking behind the pillars there. Why is he obsessed with Georgia? Why?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

In my view, he's obsessed with Georgia because he can't get over the fact that it was black voters and black political power who were instrumental to his defeat in Georgia and in a number of crucial battleground states. But look, there's talk that he might try to declare me and Raphael Warnock illegitimate senators. Obviously, the president has no power to do that, but he does have the power to try to intimidate people, and he's demonstrated his will to abuse power. I expect him to use whatever he puts out there on Thursday as a pretext, either for some attempted unconstitutional use of federal power to interfere in the election or to give his proxies and loyalists in state and local jurisdictions some cover for whatever they might attempt or to lay the groundwork for challenging the result. And the bottom line is that this is a real and live threat to voting rights in the United States right now and perhaps the most significant we've face since the 1960s. And I'm asking folks again to help me defend voting rights and get out the vote in [e-mail] so you talked

[Show Host / Interviewer]

about something I think is really important for people to remember. This speech is not just a speech. And then it ends. This speech is a part of an ongoing effort for him to delegitimize, disenfranchise voters, and to spread conspiracy theories. So let's just dig into what you just talked about, about what could be next, because you've been paying close attention to this. He gives this speech. First of all, are you worried that he's gonna mention Georgia and try to push conspiracy theories out there? Potentially.

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Look, his obsession with Georgia hurts Georgia Republicans. I mean, this is not a political winner for Congressman Mike Collins. Mike Collins. If he's knows what's good for him, he already has to defend voting to double health insurance premiums for a million Georgians. I doubt he wants to spend the next four months dealing with Donald Trump's conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. But putting the politics aside, I'm concerned about the defense of voting rights rights in Georgia. I'm concerned about what Donald Trump abusing his federal power may do to try to interfere with the process or cast doubt on the results. And that's why I'm asking people to help me to defend voting rights and to make sure that we can empower every eligible voter in Georgia to navigate whatever obstacles are put in their path or whatever misinformation they're served.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

So where does it go after Thursday? Cuz this is important for people to understand. This is just part of laying could be we don't know what's in the speech exams exactly, but everything we've seen from reporting could be laying the predicate here to do further investigations to seize more ballots. Where do you think it goes?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

I think again, I think that he is trying to create some pretext for an abuse of federal power, trying to create cover for state and local allies to get up to no good in those jurisdictions and try to lay the groundwork for some kind of potential challenge to the results. That's what I think his goal is. But I think they're divided within the White House and the administration on this. And here's what I would say. If you're working in the Trump administration right now, if you're say, CIA Director John Ratcliffe and you see what's about to happen, that they're gonna selectively declassify some nonsense to try to lay the foundation for some kind of mischief, this is the last chance to jump ship and speak out because you will be forever tainted by your association with these kinds of shenanigans you talked about.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

I just played a clip at the beginning of the show. This is the glamour of the Senate, where you're asked by reporters questions in a park lot. I think that must have been in a parking lot. But you talked about having conversations with your Republican colleagues who think and I don't want to put you basically said that Trump has lost it around this particular topic. Tell us more about I know you're not going to name names. You're welcome to about those conversations. What do Republicans tell you privately about this particular topic, this conspiracy theory pushing?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Let me say it's not even new that in private conversations a huge number of my Republican colleagues have contempt for the president. They view him as somebody who's adverse to their own interest. They know that he's torpedoing GOP chances in these midterm elections. But I don't think they're going to do anything about it. We should not hold out hope For a sudden outbreak of courage and integrity and spine marks among elected Republicans in Washington. He still has the GOP in his grip and in particular, his most dedicated loyalists, like Congressman Mike Collins, my opponent, who is a known and notorious bigot and anti Semite, who is only a congressman because his daddy was a congressman, who Brian Kemp worked so hard to try to deny the Republican nomination because he's so extreme, because he's so unpalatable. And because as Donald Trump spirals into conspiracy land, Congressman Mike Collins is gonna follow him right along.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

You sit on the Senate Intelligence Committee, you're gonna have the opportun question Jake Clayton in a hearing tomorrow. That feels quite awkward for Jay Clinton, given this speech on Thursday. Not our problem. What are you gonna push him on? What are you gonna press him on, given all of this, everything we've discussed?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

Look, the office of the Director of National Intelligence right now is tainted. It's tainted by Tulsi Gabbard's misconduct when she went down to Georgia and in her own words, at the request of the president, oversaw the execution of a search warrant on a sensitive election site. A massive abuse of that office. It's tainted by Bill Pulte and what Bill Pulte is doing in that office right now. And I sat down today with Jay Clayton to talk about his nomination, and I'll tell you candidly that he said nothing that allayed my concerns that he would be yet another puppet. That he said nothing that demonstrated any kind of will or any kind of real commitment to. To the independence that we need from the nation's senior most intelligence officer. He'll have another chance to make his case tomorrow in the hearing.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Did you ask him about this potential of releasing all of this, declassifying all of this information in advance of Thursday?

[Senator Jon Ossoff]

You can rest assured that tomorrow I and a number of Democrats on the Intelligence Committee will be pressing him on related issues.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Senator Jon Ossoff, thank you. As always, thank you for being here. Okay, my next guest has been speaking to very big crowds across the Midwest the past few days, and he's been talking a lot about what Democrats need to do once Donald Trump is gone from the political scene. That day will come. Everyone, Pete Buttigieg is standing by, and he joins us next.

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[Show Host / Interviewer]

Pete Buttigieg is doing a lot of campaigning for candidates right now, and that may not sound that surprising. We're pretty close to the midterm elections. But he's doing something I think is really interesting. He's really focusing his time right now in red states and districts where the Democratic Party has not won in some time because he believes Democrats can of course win in those places this November. And one of those states is Nebraska, where Buttigieg rallied today in a House district that Democrats are looking to flip. Another one. Where he was this weekend is Iowa, where Buttigieg spoke just over the last couple of days. And he pointed out in that speech that the abstract and sometimes academic way that some Democrats approach politics muddies what should be the party's message, that Trump's attacks on democracy are viscerally hurting people.

[Pete Buttigieg (campaign speech)]

250 years ago this month, our founders didn't go to war to overthrow a king because they read John Locke and Rousseau in their studies and thought it would be neat to go try this stuff out someplace. They put their lives on the line to create something new in this world because they thought it would make everyday life better if the people were in charge of the government instead of the other way around. 9 out of 10 house races drawn so that you know who's going to win before the first vote is cast in a 5050 country this is not an academic concern. This hurts us. This is why things aren't working properly. This is how they can make you pay more at the pump for a war you never asked for. How they burned down the Department of Education while we're worried about kids who can't do math or read like they're supposed to. This is why we can't have nice things. But. But it doesn't have to be this way. And that's what we're here to do something about.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Joining me now is former Transportation Secretary and former South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg. It's great to see you. You've had quite a good time, it seems like. We just showed a clip out of the campaign trail over the last several days. It's interesting to me, and I just mentioned this. I mean, I know you are a sought after surrogate on the campaign trail. You probably get lots of calls from people to ask you to campaign. You've made a decision as of late to really focus your time in red states. Why?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, I think it's important that we reach out everywhere at this moment when more and more people, including independents and a lot of people who usually vote Republican, are ready for something different. You know, sometimes I think we've been made to feel like we who are opposed to what's going on right now in Washington and in Congress are the minority. We not only have a majority, we have a super majority in public opinion when it comes to the Iran war, when it comes to the prices being too high, when it comes to the need for the wealthiest people and corporations to pay their fair share on and on down the list, healthcare, you name it. But having a majority in public opinion doesn't automatically mean you get a majority in Congress. You got to go out there and work for it. And what I have found in places like Nebraska's 2nd district, where I was today, like Iowa, where I was yesterday, other places I've been campaigning, from Marjorie Taylor Greene's district in northwest Georgia to the work we were doing in Montana, to heading out to Florida in a little while. There are so many people who, if we can get in front of them with that message, I think they're going to respond and are going to insist on change, deliver change. And it's a reminder also that you don't have to wait till the next presidential election to do something. We have a lot of elections right now in front of us in 2026. We gotta make sure that they go.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Well, part of the argument you've made, and I was reading Your speech this morning from Iowa, and obviously I've seen a lot of the clips, is that it's important to kind of, and we just, people just heard you say this too, invite people who voted for Trump in the past into the Democratic coalition. And that makes sense. I mean, more voters means you win elections. That's kind of how the whole thing works. But how do you do that? Because right now, as you all know, there are so many people out there who are part of the Democratic coalition, have long been, who feel like their voices aren't heard, nobody's speaking to them, nobody's speaking out for them, who feel alienated and that their very existence is under threat. So how do you do that? Well, not alienating those groups of people who Democrats also need to vote for them.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, that's why it's so important to point to all of these things where we have this in common, where it's not about triangulating some ideological middle, it's about finding that most Americans, the left, the center, and quite a few people who usually vote more right, are gonna agree right now on healthcare, on all of the corruption that's going on right now, but only if we do the work. And you know, I don't think there is any contradiction between standing firm in our values and being there for people who have been part of our coalition for many years and many generations and inviting people to come join that coalition and grow it. The most effective Democratic candidates and presidents in my lifetime did that. I think back to how it felt in supposedly deep red Indiana the night that that state turned blue in 2008 as Barack Obama both consolidated that Democratic coalition and invited a lot of people who usually voted the other way to cross over. We have a moment like that on our hands because there are so many people who frankly believed the promises that the President made. Far too many voters were told by this president, I'm going to lower prices. We're told I'm going to keep us out of these dumb wars. And rather than being hostile to them as voters, I think we have a chance now to invite them in because they're asking a lot of questions about how things ever got to this point.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

In your speech today, you reiterated how Democrats can continue doing politics as usual, which I think the majority of people watching it was like, yeah, they can't keep doing it, cuz it's not working. And we all see the polling numbers. What do you mean by that? Exactly? What specific things do you think Democrats should avoid repeating or continuing to do?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, I think we've got to recognize that many of the institutions that are being destroyed right now by the Trump administration also cannot and should not be put back together just the way they looked in 2021 or 2012. I do think there is a risk that we might imagine that our job is to take power and just put everything back the way it was, but that's not going to work either. If our economic and political and social systems were working just fine, we wouldn't be here. So the old status quo can't be the answer. We've got to have new answers and we've got to take big swings at major political reform. Again, I think there's a moment here, for example, on money in polit, you don't have to be a Democrat and you don't have to be in a blue state to be part of the majority that wants to change that, including, if necessary, a constitutional amendment to deal with Citizens United. Part of the message that I had in Iowa and that I'm taking everywhere I go is our economic problems are related to the problems in our political system. You know, there is a conventional wisdom out there among some political strategists saying don't talk about what's wrong with our democracy because we should only be talking about the kitchen table. To me, those two things are intimately connected. The reason we are paying more at the pump, the reason our mortgages are unaffordable in this country is directly related to the fact that there is no accountability in our government. And there won't be until we fix Congress, fix the Supreme Court, fix money in politics. And we absolutely cannot be afraid to talk about those big reforms as well as the ins and outs of health care, education, the things we want to do on day one.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Accountability. You hear that word a lot. I hear it a lot. I'm sure you hear it a lot. People really want it. Right. What does that look like as we look ahead? Because there's not unlimited hours in the day. There's not unlimited time in Congress. What do you think accountability looks like as we look ahead?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, when given the chance, Congress has to, a Democratic led Congress has to establish accountability first of all, around the naked corruption that is going on. This is not a political question. The idea that the American people shouldn't have been spending hundreds of millions of dollars of our taxes on retrofitting a secondhand jumbo jet, the idea that there is something highly questionable about people from the president of the United States to a lot of other officials getting rich on stock trades while making decisions that move Markets dealing with that is not some kind of partisan conquest. That's something that most Americans can actually come together around. But also there's the day to day accountability that our democratic system is supposed to deliver. See, this is part of the problem with gerrymandering. If nine out of ten House districts are ones where you know who's going to win before the first vote is cast, then members of Congress don't feel a level of accountability. They don't feel responsible for anything from big policy questions like standing up to this Iran war, which is supposed to be Congress's job to declare or to stop, or their personal conduct like trading stocks and getting rich when no member of Congress should be trading stocks in the first place.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

One of the other things I think that has been really interesting about the speeches you've given is that they're very forward looking. You talk about kind of the period post Trump or where we go from here, which is so important for people to think about. And you said this thing, and having worked in government a lot myself, I very much related to this in a recent interview where you said that serving in the Biden administration radicalized you, that just, just seeing how hard it is it was to get every, even common sense things done, like delivering a new bridge or airport changed you. Obviously you were the Transportation Secretary, so it's understandable that those were the examples you gave. But just like bigger pictures here, what does solving that problem look like if Democrats win back power and eventually the White House, because you already referenced, like you can't rebuild things and put them exactly back together, what does that look like when you're thinking back big about how to go from here?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, I mean, the reality is if you have a common sense view that you share with most Americans, it will take radical change to actually act on it in today's Washington. That's, that's what I'm getting at. I'm not talking about ideology. I'm saying that in order to get anywhere, even as an ideological moderate, you have to be ready for radical change in our institutions. What does that look like? Some of the changes I was just talking about around money and politics, around Congress and how elections work, certainly making sure that we have the voting rights reform and protections that are doubly important because of what has been done to systematically tear down black political representation in order to try to keep this Republican Congress in power. But look, we've also got to recognize there are certain institutions that we have cherished as Democrats that are important institutions that probably can't and shouldn't go back to the old way. It was criminally wrong to basically gut the Department of Education as they have done. I also don't think our project is to make the Department of Education look just the way it looked the minute before Donald Trump got here. I could say the same thing about foreign aid. Again, criminally wrong to have demolished the US Agency for International Development. That doesn't mean that we should put it back just the way it was. I know a lot of mayors who would love to see dramatic change in how Housing and Urban Development works and how federal dollars can or can't be used to help make housing more affordable in C. To be listening to them thinking about how we build things from the ground up because there will be a moment when we have that clean sheet, that fresh start. I hate how we got here. We got here because of all of the destruction that's going on in this moment. But it's also a chance to build something new on the sometimes the rubble of these institutions that were frankly, already rickety, already showing their age years before we got to this moment.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

If you ask most people who have worked in Democrat administrations, they would say things were too bureaucratic, too. It's just that. And too bloated, too. It's just how you do it. We don't have nearly enough conversations about the path forward. So you have agreed to stick around. I'm very grateful for that. We're gonna take a quick break. We have more questions. We'll be right back.

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[Pete Buttigieg]

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[Brian Tyler Cohen]

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[Senator Jon Ossoff]

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[Show Host / Interviewer]

We are back with former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. So one of the great benefits of having a public platform, a huge one as you do, is you can share your ideas and think big thoughts about how to make things better for people in this country. It also means you can be targeted by people who wanna do you or your family harm. And I know you are no stranger to that at all. And I wanted to just ask you about something you've been very candid and open about. And when I read the substack piece, which I think people have probably seen, I had a hard time getting through it. And I felt a deep sense of rage for you and Chasten and your family, as anyone would. But for anyone who doesn't remember what I'm talking about, Pete and his family were targeted and subjected to an investigation by Child Protective Services because someone reported a fake anonymous tip. And I just wanted to ask you, because now it's been a couple of weeks, if you could talk to this person who did this to you, what would you say to them?

[Pete Buttigieg]

I'd just say, this hurt a whole family. This didn't just hurt me. And whatever you think about me, my politics, just leave my children out of it. They're four years old. They do not deserve to be affected or impacted. They shouldn't have to know the first thing about any of this. And there are plenty of things that are acceptable, that are fair game, including really tough arguments, tough rhetoric, whatever, but you don't bring somebody's kids into this. And I don't know what else to say. Well, the other thing, I'll say it was not the easiest decision to go public about this and talk about what happened. But we thought it was important. And as soon as we did, we heard from so many people around the country, people we know and have worked with, people we don't know. Some people that I have campaigned against, and I would like to believe that shows that for most people there is a line, there is a boundary, and that most people are hungry for a different, better public life in this country. That whatever disagreements we're always going to have about taxes or health care or whatever, that certain things we can agree on about what we want life, including public life, to be like. Because this kind of thing cannot be the cost of committing to public service or public life in America.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

I've heard you say about this that it makes you both want to kind of run straight to your family and also makes you want to make the world better for them, which is incredibly powerful. You've also talked about how your kids are too young. They're only four years old. Mine are a little older, but they're too young to know what happened and why, unfortunately. I'm sure you've thought about this, and I'm sure Chastain has with the Internet and the media. They're going to find out one day and maybe sooner than you'd like. Have you thought about how you're going to talk to them about it? And I hate that this is a question that you even have to think about.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, I mean, we. We still don't know exactly what impact the experience will have had on them, how much they're going to remember of it. But I try to remember also that they will grow up and read about all this, hear about all this, and learn about all this. The best we can do is both to prepare them for the world as it is that they are growing up and growing into, but also change it. It's not too late to. To be at work changing the. The. The way things work. Not that I can fix it all by the time they're 15 or by the time they're 50, but we gotta be working on that day in, day out. And I just. I'm so sure that it doesn't have to be this way and that they can inherit a way of doing things in this country that's better than what we're putting up with right now.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

I always tell new working parents that part of the story of their kids is. Is their own efforts to make the world a better place. That's part of the story of your kids, too. As hard as this stuff is, I have to ask you before you go, I know you recently told a reporter I laughed at the answer to this in Iowa, that you're not rolling out a run for president, 2028. I think you were asked the question and you said, nope, it was pretty simple. I know you're not gonna announce anything tonight. I know you're focused on 2026, but you've thought so much about the future. I'm just curious if you've thought about what qualities and what vision you think the next nominee needs to have. It's a different time even than when you ran and others ran.

[Pete Buttigieg]

You know, years ago, after my presidential campaign, we started an organization called Win the Era. And that organization's still going. And the reason that we called it that is every time I'm involved in an election, I care deeply about winning the election, just like I care about winning the elections in Iowa and Nebraska that I was involved with the last couple of days. But you need to win an election in order to secure an era, in order to make things better for that long haul. And I think that we need that kind of thinking right now. I think to 250th is a great opportunity to step back and actually think about what it's going to be like by the time of the 300th. I know that might sound a little crazy, but, you know, certainly expect that my children will be celebrating the 300th. With some luck, I might be there to see it too. And we're going to ask ourselves what we've done between this moment and that moment so that by then the sort of corruption that's going on right now is unthinkable. So that by then the idea that people would be choosing between health insurance payments and mortgage payments seems barbaric. It is barbaric, but it will seem barbaric and antique by then. And for all of that, I think we need leadership. And I'm not just talking about the next president, but the leaders that we're going to elect right now in 2026, who can think about that long term. Not in some abstract, airy, academic kind of way, but okay, what do we have to do now? What reforms do we have to do now on everything from things like gerrymandering and how the Supreme Court works to our tax code and how unfair it is? What do we have to be doing right now in ways that we will be glad we did, even if it's hard, Especially if it's hard, especially if it takes a long time. The longer something takes to get done, the sooner we should have started on it. And I'm hoping that we can continue to see leaders who can see, of course, to the next election, but far beyond that and make the right kind of long term choices that are going to matter. I used to talk in these terms because I was, I was the young guy in the room running for mayor in my 20s, being a presidential candidate in my 30s now, I think of it in a whole new way, which is, you know, every time I do break the news to our kids that papa's going to be on the road for a couple of days, I think about why and what's at stake and the reason, the answer, of course, is that we've got to give them A better world than we're living in right now.

[Morgan and Morgan Advertiser]

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[Show Host / Interviewer]

Pete Buttigieg, I don't envy your children and the kind of questioning they may get at the dinner table when they're older, given your wealth of knowledge about things. But thank you for being here. I'm sorry that you've been through everything you've been through. And I think every heart of anybody who's a parent is with you in this moment, no matter their political party. Thank you again.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Thanks very much. Good being with you.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

We'll be right back. We have been talking a lot tonight about a world after Donald Trump and what that might look like. And my next guest literally wrote the book on that topic. It just came out. Joining me now is political commentator Brian Tyler Cohn. He's the author of the new book the Day how to Wield Power in a Post Trump World. And you probably follow him on YouTube because millions of people do. It's so great to see you.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

So good to see you, too.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Let me ask you, okay. In your book, we've been talking about this through the course of the show and a lot of what Pete Buttigieg was just saying is similar to kind of the thematics. And it's so important to think about where we go next. So in your book, you write, the political truth is this, Democrats like to signal their virtues, while Republicans like to swagger their virility. Democrats quaintly believe that being good is good enough to win elections. Republicans, on the other hand, think that Americans will admire them for looking strong, for wielding power, for extracting personal wealth from public well being. There is a lot in there talk about how Democrats should change that dynamic.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah. I mean, the reality is Democrats, it feels like when Democrats get into office, they are there to protect the institutions of government as opposed to using those institutions to deliver on outcomes for people. And we have seen the extent to which Donald Trump will barrel through anything, norms, traditions, processes, anything to get what he wants. The difference is he does it for self enrichment, he does it for vanity projects. He does it to consolidate more influence on his family. What I argue in this book is that Democrats need to take that mentality, but to deliver for people on climate change, on healthcare, on voting rights, on raising the minimum wage, on expanding the Supreme Court, you name it. We need to barrel ahead through these institutions, through these processes, through these norms to get what we want.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Your book, as I've noted here, is really about wielding power in this post Trump world. And obviously Trump will still be president if Democrats win back the House and Maybe the Senate we will see. What does that look like? You have to pick a priority or priorities. You can't do everything. What do you think they should pick?

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Well, I think if we're not talking about a post Trump world, if we're talking about the immediate future, and I do believe that Democrats will take the House, I'm also actually bullish on the Senate. But I think immediately what we'll be able to do with our positions of power in Congress is start to investigate some of the corruption that we're seeing right now. The rampant corruption. I mean we are seeing a president who has made money hand over fist billions of of dollars not just for himself but his family, which if I remember correctly used to be something that was disqualifying for Republicans and yet not a peep from the GOP as we see Don Jr. And Eric and Jared Kushner gain billions and billions of dollars. We've watched this president trade favors, trade tax tariff favors instead for foreign real estate and breaks on some of the legislation that he's putting forward. So this corruption is so blatant, so shameless and so rampant that I think we would be well served. And I think the American people would agree to look into a lot of what's happening right now, if for nothing else than to set the stage for what a Democratic DOJ can look into when they take power.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

We only have about 30 seconds left, but I would be remiss if I didn't ask you for some advice for everybody watching out there who are trying to communicate their ideas with the public and doing it not ineffectively and maybe in a cringy way. Cuz you are very effective at communicating with a broad audience. What's one tactic tip out there for people who are trying to talk to the public and are trying to figure

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

out how talk in a way that people understand. Here's the easiest example that I have. I'll talk to politicians sometimes for interviews and then we'll wrap the interview and then they'll say something funny or normal or cool and I'll be like that's what I needed during the interview. So I think if people can talk to their constituents, talk to their potential voters like normal human beings, that would go a long way.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

Talk like you're talking to your neighbor Brian Tyler Cohen the day after, everybody. It's good prep work. Thank you for being here.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Thanks for having me.

[Show Host / Interviewer]

We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now and don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.

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