Republicans strain to explain election failures, ignoring the obvious

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode Title: Republicans strain to explain election failures, ignoring the obvious
Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (featuring Nicole Wallace)
Network: MSNBC

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Overview

This episode analyzes the recent across-the-board defeats suffered by Republicans in the latest elections. Jen Psaki, through discussions and interviews primarily conducted by regular substitute host Nicole Wallace, unpacks the bizarre strategies and public explanations coming from the GOP to address their losses—often evading the real causes. The episode features in-depth conversations with Maryland Governor Wes Moore, Congressman Jamie Raskin, and Democratic political consultant Morris Katz, focusing on issues of affordability, government dysfunction, the use and abuse of political power, and the strategies driving Democratic wins.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. GOP Post-Election Spin: Explaining the Unexplained

[00:46–07:00]

• Republican Losses Nationwide: Republicans suffered “crushing defeats” in elections across the country, with visible attempts to change the subject from their losses (00:46).
• Bizarre White House Event: Republicans, led by President Trump, held an event focusing on weight-loss drugs. Dr. Oz claimed Americans would lose “135 billion pounds by the midterms”—Wallace quips this means every American would need to lose 397 pounds, highlighting the absurdity (02:20).
  • Quote: “For this country to collectively lose 135 billion pounds, that would mean that every American would have to lose an average of 397 pounds each. And that would be big news because it's basically impossible.” – Nicole Wallace (02:20)
• Metaphor for a Collapsing Party: An event guest collapsed on stage—a moment Wallace uses as a metaphor for a party “collapsing” as Trump is “asleep at the wheel” (03:35).
• Republican Leaders Offer Excuses:
  • Rep. Lisa McClain claims Republican turnout was low “because Republicans…are happy with what's happening” (04:25).
  • Laura Ingraham’s paradoxical take: “By winning, Democrats are actually losing” (05:12).
• Ignoring the Obvious: The GOP’s refusal to address cost-of-living issues is called out as a central reason for their losses, particularly in states where affordability drove voters to the polls (05:20–07:00).

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2. Democratic Policy Success and Strategic Focus

[07:00–09:27]

• Republicans’ Policy Problem: Trump’s economic policies—including tariffs and attempts to dismantle SNAP food assistance—are described as actively worsening affordability (07:02).
• Judicial Interventions: Federal courts order the administration to restore SNAP after attempts to disrupt the program are found politically motivated (07:55).
• Democratic Momentum: Democratic victories are attributed to offering genuine solutions for affordability. Politico reports that Democrats, energized by success, are strategizing to expand into traditionally red states (08:57).

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3. Interview with Maryland Governor Wes Moore: Democratic Response & Policy Urgency

[09:27–15:32]

Post-Election GOP Rhetoric and Action:

• Disconnected GOP Messaging: Moore notes that Republicans’ new rhetoric on affordability doesn’t match continued policies that increase costs (10:07).
  • Quote: “It's not about how they're going to change performance. It's still about how they're going to be performative...” – Wes Moore (10:07)
• Weaponizing Food Assistance: Trump’s attempt to use SNAP benefits as leverage is called “cruelty.” Moore explains Maryland’s emergency funding to cover SNAP, but highlights states can only temporarily absorb the burden (11:39–13:07).
  • Quote: “Donald Trump finds it difficult to fight for the middle class because he's never been in the middle class… When we first saw that the President was willing to weaponize food to score political points, we immediately spun into action. We sued… and we won in court.” – Wes Moore (11:39)

Democrats’ Localized Wins and Strategy:

• Protecting Constituents: Moore underscores the importance of demonstrating tangible support for voters—standing up for government workers, health care credits, and public safety resonates with communities (14:04).
  • Quote: “I will work with anyone, I will bow down to no one, and… ensure that the people of Maryland are protected, …and can thrive.” – Wes Moore (14:04)
• Candidate Quality: Candidates successful in delivering and fighting for practical needs—like Abigail Spanberger and Mikie Sherrill—are highlighted as models for success (14:10).

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4. Redistricting, Democratic Reform, and Moore’s Agenda

[16:45–22:25]

• Moving Beyond ‘No and Slow’: Moore critiques Democratic tendencies toward excessive analysis leading to gridlock and calls for a shift to urgency, action, and results (17:15).
  • Quote: “For the Democratic Party to move forward, we have got to go from being the party of ‘no and slow’ and start being the party of ‘yes and now’...” – Wes Moore (17:15)
• Redistricting Advisory Commission: Announced on Election Night, the bipartisan commission aims to ensure fair maps. Moore faces criticism from predecessor Larry Hogan but defends the commission as necessary action (19:27, 21:16).
  • Quote: “My advice to Republican Larry Hogan is this. On this issue, sit this one out, too.” – Wes Moore (22:19)
• Timeline & Political Reality: Moore insists the commission can work in time for 2026 and highlights real differences on urgency within Maryland’s political leadership (21:07).

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5. Interview with Rep. Jamie Raskin: The Filibuster & Voting Rights Threat

[24:03–30:27]

• Trump Targets the Filibuster: Trump suggests ending the filibuster—ostensibly to end the shutdown, but in reality, to pass restrictive voting laws (24:20).
• Real Motive: Power over Policy:
  • Raskin explains the goal is to “steamroller” anti-democracy measures, limiting voting access through Voter ID, elimination of mail-in voting, etc. (26:08).
  • Quote: “Rather than change their policies… he says, let's change the rules so we can steamroller through the United States Senate, a package of not reforms, but deforms in order to restrict voting.” – Jamie Raskin (26:44)
• Historical Parallel: Raskin likens these maneuvers to past disenfranchisement tactics (“grandfather clauses, poll tax”) (27:00).
• Government Shutdown Negotiations: Democrats intend to hold the line for SNAP and ACA subsidies, with Raskin highlighting GOP unwillingness to negotiate (28:41).

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6. The ‘Sandwich Guy’ Trial: Weaponization of DOJ

[31:38–36:12]

• Symbolic Case: The DOJ’s federal trial against Sean Dunn for throwing a sandwich at law enforcement during protests becomes a case study in petty but dangerous politicization—he is acquitted (33:38).
  • Quote: “The question at the core of this case was, is this incident serious enough to be considered a federal crime? How could it be? Today, a jury in D.C. answered that question with a big fat no.” – Nicole Wallace (33:53)
• Larger Implications: Wallace uses the trial as an example of the administration’s broader efforts to intimidate critics and weaponize the justice system against perceived opponents (35:50).

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7. Democratic Campaign Blueprint: Interview with Morris Katz

[36:12–42:23]

• Coalition Building: Democratic victories point to a broad coalition—centrist and progressive—winning by focusing on “affordability” and tangible local issues (36:12).
• Authenticity Over Strategy: Successful campaigns are not copy-paste affairs; they require letting candidates be their authentic selves (“let Zoran cook”) (39:09).
  • Quote: “The single most toxic thing you can be in American politics today is come across as a career politician or a status quo politician.” – Morris Katz (39:18)
• Community Engagement: Campaigns must “show up” in unlikely places and build trust where Democrats are often absent (40:25).
  • Quote: “No person or community should be left behind. And just by showing up, you're sending a message, you know, I want to hear from you.” – Morris Katz (40:25)
• Both/And Strategy: Attack Trump’s record while pushing proactive visions—don’t let all discourse be reactionary or anti-Trump alone (41:31).

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8. Memorable Closing Tribute: Nancy Pelosi

[42:31–43:27]

• Wallace offers a heartfelt tribute to Nancy Pelosi as she announces retirement, highlighting her historic leadership and defiance of Trump (42:31).
  • “She shepherded historic legislation under Presidents Obama and Biden…she just ripped up his speech altogether. I could go on, but I'll stop there.” – Nicole Wallace (42:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “For this country to collectively lose 135 billion pounds… would mean that every American would have to lose an average of 397 pounds each.” – Nicole Wallace (02:20)
• “They know why they lost this election.” – Nicole Wallace on GOP blaming everything but their policies (05:20)
• “Donald Trump finds it difficult to fight for the middle class because he's never been in the middle class.” – Wes Moore (11:39)
• “For the Democratic Party to move forward, we have got to go from being the party of ‘no and slow’ and start being the party of ‘yes and now’...” – Wes Moore (17:15)
• “Rather than change their policies… he says, let's change the rules so we can steamroller through the United States Senate, a package of not reforms, but deforms in order to restrict voting.” – Jamie Raskin (26:44)
• “The single most toxic thing you can be in American politics today is come across as a career politician or a status quo politician.” – Morris Katz (39:18)
• “No person or community should be left behind. And just by showing up, you're sending a message, you know, I want to hear from you.” – Morris Katz (40:25)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:46–07:00] – GOP election spin, White House “weight loss” event mockery, Republican excuses
• [07:00–09:27] – Real reasons for GOP defeats: affordability, cost-of-living issues, Dems’ positive agenda
• [09:27–22:25] – Interview with Wes Moore: SNAP crisis, government shutdown, redistricting, Democratic strategy
• [24:03–30:27] – Interview with Jamie Raskin: Filibuster, anti-democracy GOP agenda, voting/election implications
• [31:38–36:12] – The “Sandwich Guy” trial, DOJ weaponization, broader justice system concerns
• [36:12–42:23] – Interview with Morris Katz: Campaigning lessons, Democratic coalition, candidate authenticity and engagement
• [42:31–43:27] – Nancy Pelosi farewell tribute

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Overall Tone and Language

The episode is sharp, witty, and frequently sarcastic—especially in critiques of the Trump administration and GOP talking points. Guests are direct, candid, and policy-oriented, focusing on the importance of tangible action over rhetorical posturing.

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Takeaway

The episode underscores that Republicans are largely dodging accountability for their electoral failures by focusing on performative, sometimes bizarre messaging, rather than addressing voters’ real-world concerns about affordability and governance. Meanwhile, Democrats gain ground by addressing kitchen-table issues, championing responsive governance, and building broad, authentic coalitions at all levels of government. Throughout, the role of Trump’s administration in driving up costs, weaponizing government, and threatening democratic norms looms large in the discussion.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, she sits down with former White House Communications director Anthony Scaramucci.

[Wes Moore]

We are a beautiful, colorful mosaic of people, and we are exactly what Lincoln said, the last best hope for mankind.

[Nicole Wallace]

The best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access and free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter. Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up [e-mail] it has been just.

48 hours since Republicans suffered pretty humiliating crushing defeats in elections literally all across the country. And when any White House experiences a humiliating defeat, and believe me, I've been part of those, the instinct is often, most of the time, to change the subject. I mean, roll out a new policy, hold a big event, make any announcement of any kind, basically to get people to talk about anything other than the absolute shellacking that you just took at the polls. But apparently the announcement this White House settled on today didn't even really seem to keep the President of the United States awake.

Americans will lose £135 billion by the midterms.

[Jamie Raskin]

But I don't measure it in pounds. I measure it and save lives. People can sleep again because they can.

[Nicole Wallace]

Breathe when they go to bed.

[Jamie Raskin]

Folks whose knees don't hurt, people who.

[Nicole Wallace]

Don'T have heart attacks, renal failure, dementia.

[Jamie Raskin]

All the things we know are associated.

[Nicole Wallace]

With obesity and much more.

I don't know if you just saw Donald Trump on the side of the screen there. We maybe should have done like a big red circle or something there, but I'm sure you saw it. I mean, that was him in the White House today, basically appearing to nod off while his surgeon general talked about, of all things really, dementia, obesity and sleep loss. I mean, it kind of feels a little too on the nose, doesn't it? Can we just. Let's just go back for a second to what Dr. Oz was saying there before the President started to lose interest.

[Jamie Raskin]

Mr. President, our estimate, based on the company numbers as well, is Americans will.

[Nicole Wallace]

Lose £135 billion by the midterms.

That didn't catch his interest either, but, yes, you heard it. Dr. Oz is promising that Americans will lose £135 billion by the midterms. That's a lot of pounds in a short period of time. Look, I'm not an expert on weight loss, not even a mathematician, but I do know There are about 340 million people in the United States. So for this country to collectively lose 135 billion pounds, that would mean that every American would have to lose an average of 397 pounds each. And that would be big news because it's basically impossible. Okay, so this event was extremely weird to begin with, and then this happened.

[Morris Katz]

For nearly 150 years, my company, Eli.

[Jamie Raskin]

Lilly, has been investing in America.

[Wes Moore]

We've been advancing science and creating high value jobs.

[Morris Katz]

But today we Are you okay, Gordon? You okay?

[Nicole Wallace]

Now that was the moment today when a guest at that event who was reportedly a weight loss drug patient collapsed. Now, that kind of thing does happen at White House events from time to time. People are standing for a long time. Sometimes it's hot and, and the man is reportedly okay, which is definitely very good news. What was notable this time was how the President just kind of awkwardly stood there, stared at him after it happened. That's what he did kind of the whole time. I mean, did he understand what had happened? Did he not care? Was he happy to just stand by as things were literally collapsing around him? The metaphors are kind of too long to list here, but that event gave us a lot to work with. That is definitely how Trump appears to be coping with this week's election losses. Just sort of spacing out as his party collapses. And to be fair, I mean, everyone is coping, I guess, in their own way. Here's Republican congresswoman and political genius of sorts. You'll see Lisa McClain. Voter turnout from Republicans was not high, not high at all. But I think part of that reason is because Republicans, for the most part, are happy with what's happening. She's the Republican conference chairwoman and she said Republicans didn't vote because they are too happy. That is quite a hot take. Not the only one, though. Here's Republican Congressman Steve Scalise.

[Jamie Raskin]

If Alabama held an election also Tuesday, and gee whiz, a Republican governor was elected governor of Alabama, would anybody be writing a story about it?

[Nicole Wallace]

He had to really come up with that one. Good on his team. I mean, maybe someone could fill Steve Scalise in on Democratic wins in red states like Mississippi and Georgia and the more than dozen state legislative seats that were flipped in Virginia, just to mention a few. And just when you thought these takes could not get any dumber, Laura Ingraham said, hold my beer, everyone. So by winning, Democrats are, in a way losing. By winning, Democrats are actually losing. Now, that wasn't just like a slip of the tongue or weird thing she said when she was tired. I mean, she was so pleased with herself for coming up with that that someone on her team actually put it on the graphic at the bottom of her screen. You can just see it right there. By winning, Democrats are actually losing. That is winning spin of some sort. Who knows? Look, Trump world can make all of the excuses they want, but they know why they lost this election. In New York City, voters said the cost of living was the number one issue, driving them to the polls by a 33 point margin. In Virginia, voters said the economy was their number one issue by a 28 point margin. Republicans lost this election in part because they have failed to do anything to make their constituents lives more affordable and they control everything. It was the reason they got power in the first place and they have failed to do anything about it. And even some people in Trump's own White House seem to understand that. I mean, here's how Trump adviser James Blair reacted to the election results.

[Wes Moore]

Folks that I'm talking to privately, who are supporters of President Trump think that he needs to be talking about cost of living a whole lot more. Are we going to see that pivot? I think you'll see the president talk a lot about cost of living as.

[Nicole Wallace]

We turn the year and into the new year. And I think you'll be see him.

[Wes Moore]

Be very, very focused on prices and cost of living.

[Nicole Wallace]

Oh, so now he's going to be very focused on the thing he ran his entire campaign on. Good to know. Good to know, I guess. Problem is, no matter how many words about prices come out of the man's mouth, his actual policies he's been implementing since he got into office are making the problems worse. Trump's policies are driving those costs up, not down. And apparently the only way he will be stopped from driving prices up is if judges forced him to. He's pushing disastrous tariffs that will continue to push prices higher on furniture, on clothing, on electronics, unless his hand picked Supreme Court stops him. He's also going out of his way to cut off SNAP food assistance from millions of Americans, making it harder for them to afford groceries. Today, a federal judge said the administration defied a previous court order and ordered them once again to fully fund SNAP by tomorrow. The judge also attributed the inappropriate delay in part to to an attempt by President Trump and his aides to disrupt the program for political reasons, which is an incredibly sick thing to do. And of course, Trump is currently dragging out this government shutdown over his insistence that Congress allow health care premiums to skyrocket for millions of Americans. See, Donald Trump isn't focused on lowering costs for Americans. He's the reason that many of their costs are going up. But Democrats are actually focused on lowering costs. Candidates in New York and New Jersey and Virginia all won their elections by offering real solutions to help improve the cost of living for their voters. And so the last 48 hours for them has not been about sulking or making excuses. It's really been about thinking about how to build on their success. Today, Politico reports that Tuesday's big wins have prompted Democrats to start strategizing about how to win races in red states and expand the number of competitive Senate races next year. The elections have reportedly energized some Democrats in Congress to double down on their demand to lower health care premiums in exchange for ending the shutdown. And Democrats victory on Prop 50 in California has prompted even more Democratic governors to jump into the redistricting fight. So Donald Trump and Republicans are literally some seem to be asleep at the wheel. Democratic Party appears to be springing into action. Maryland Governor West Moore is one of the Democrats trying to build on the momentum of this moment. He was a very popular surrogate out on the trail. I hope he got some sleep. And he joins me now. Lyn, it's good to see you. I hope you've slept a bit. It was quite, quite a night on Tuesday night.

[Wes Moore]

It was, it was some very hard, hard earned victories in all across the, all across the country, which we're very, very excited about.

[Nicole Wallace]

No question about it. And the big question is about how Democrats build on that. I want to get there. But I first want to ask you, I mean, I just kind of outlined this after Tuesday's night's drubbing. Donald Trump and his advisors have come out and said the Republicans really need to start focusing on affordability. He even said that that word may be a new word. I mean, it's so crazy. It feels to me. And I outlined this both late to the party and they're putting forward policies that are counter to their stated goal. But what do you make of their post election epiphany of sorts?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you just see that it's not about how they're going to change performance. It's still about how they're going to be performative. Because even if you look at post election, look at what has happened since the election, right. Just since Tuesday, we have seen how Donald Trump has continued to do nothing to try to end a federal government shutdown where we have federal government workers who are literally going to work and not being paid that we are now days away from watching premiums spike. And the President has done nothing to stop that. And now today, the President is spending his time in courtrooms throwing temper tantrums about the fact that a federal judge is saying that they need to make sure that they pay for snap. I mean, so them saying, we're going to focus on affordability, but they are just continuing to double down on policies that have continued to make everything more expensive, that have risen the price of energy by 20% since he's been the president, that have risen the cost of food since he has been the president, that has random tariff policies and trade wars that are making everything from automobiles to the cost of building homes more expensive. And so to hear him talk about, well, now we actually need to talk about affordability, just once again, shows me that this is not a serious political or governing exercise for them.

[Nicole Wallace]

It definitely isn't. I mean, if he actually wanted to lower costs, he wouldn't be defying a court order about ensuring SNAP benefits were funded. Right. I mean, it's just like a very obvious thing. Why do you think. I think it's about leverage, which is sick. But why do you think he's doing it? Why do you think he's refusing to fund SNAP benefits? It's something he has the money to do.

[Wes Moore]

Well, it is about leverage, and it's about cruelty. You know, I think Donald Trump finds it difficult to fight for the middle class because he's never been in the middle class. You know, he's never understood what it's like to actually live paycheck to paycheck. He's never understood what it's like to know that you might actually rely or need a on some type of support to make sure that your. That your family does not go hungry. And, you know, when we first saw that the President was willing to weaponize food to score political points, we immediately spun into action. We sued the Trump administration and we won in court. And while we're watching the President try to appeal and throw these temper tantrums in front of a judge, I have decided that I am not going to wait for Donald Trump to figure this out. And so I have authorized $62 million that Maryland will now go and do the President's job for him to ensure that Maryland, that Marylanders are not going to have their SNAP benefits cut off for these first two weeks while we're waiting for the federal government to figure it out. These are real people, and these are real lives. And when we're watching the level of cruelty and the level and the complete level of lack of concern for what people are facing and what people are experiencing. People should not worry why they got. People shouldn't wonder why they got shellacked this past Tuesday.

[Nicole Wallace]

No question about it. And that's a significant amount of money. It will last two weeks. You said, for the people of Maryland, SNAP benefits to cover them.

[Wes Moore]

That's exactly right.

[Nicole Wallace]

And after that, you're going to need help from the federal government. This is key. States don't have the funding to cover it longer. That's why it's a federal program. Let me ask you about. I mean, there are a lot of. There are a lot of. That's a big deal. And I know some states are doing that, but there's a big deal for the people of Maryland. There are a lot of takes from Tuesday night, and one of them is related to how people feel about the government shutdown. Maryland is a state that's hugely impacted, as is Virginia, by the government shutdown with federal workers. You mentioned SNAP benefits. There's obviously what the FAA has announced about flights being delayed and all the people traveling out of BWI and other airports. I talked to Chris Murphy about this last night, and one of the points he made was that the reason that people came out and turned out for Democrats was in part because they were fighting on things like the government shutdown and on things like extending health care benefits, the premium tax credits for Americans. Do you agree with that?

[Wes Moore]

I think that's absolutely right. I think, you know, what people want to see is they want to see that they have fighters who are standing there and protecting them. And I think the people, for example, in the state of Maryland know that while I will work with anyone, I will bow down to no one, and that we will do anything and everything in our power to ensure that the people of Maryland are protected, the people of Maryland are safe, and the people of Maryland can thrive. I think that's exactly what we saw from candidates all around the country. You know, when I was campaigning down in Virginia, in Blacksburg, and speaking with college students on behalf of Abigail Spanberger or going to Richmond, speaking with veterans or going up to Newark campaigning on behalf of Mikey Sherrill and speaking with ministers and attending church services in Newark, what they continually heard was, especially at this time when we were watching this assault that is taking place in our neighborhoods and in our communities, we want to know who will stand on the wall for us, who will fight for us, who will protect us. And when you look at someone like Mikey Sherrill or someone like Abigail Spamberger, who are career public servants, whether it's Abigail and her service and her service in the CIA, whether it's Mikey and her service in the Navy, you see people who are warriors and who will fight on behalf of their people. And that's why I think not only their message resonated, but also I think that's why their vision resonated for what the people, their individual jurisdictions and all across the country were really hoping for toughness and competence.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's kind of reassuring that it helps get people elected. Governor Moore, we have to sneak in a very 90 second break. We're going to be right back. I want to talk to you about another thing you just dove head first into, which is redistricting. We're going to talk about that after a very quick break. There's a big change coming to this network, but I'll still be here asking the kinds of questions that I used to face. Only our name is changing. Same mission, same place, new name.

MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. November 15th. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Back with me is Maryland's Democratic governor, Wes Moore. Governor Moore, you said something. A big question right now is kind of where do things go from here? Because Tuesday was a big victory, but there are a lot of RA coming up next year. You're running for reelection. There's a lot going on out there. You said yesterday, I believe that you think sometimes too often Democrats are seen as no and slow. And I think that's true on some issues. What do you mean by that, though? On what issues and where would you like to see Democrats largely pick it up?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, I think that oftentimes for Democrats, you know, we have found that every issue requires so much analysis that it just means paralysis. You know, and I say this as someone who, you know, I don't come from a family that's used to making policies. I come from a family that's used to suffering the consequences of them where, you know, I was raised by an immigrant single mom because my dad died in front of me when I was three. She didn't get her first job. That gave her benefits until her son was 14 years old, that I joined the military when I was 17. So I've come from a whole lineage of broken promises that policymakers had made. And oftentimes we were told to wait. And I just think that for the Democratic Party to move forward, we have got to go from being the party of no and slow and start being the party of yes. And now we've got to deliver the results to make sure we're focusing on affordability and bringing down costs for people. That we're doing like we've done in Maryland, which is give the middle class a tax cut. That we've got to make sure we're focusing on public safety and making sure that people can feel safe in their neighborhoods and in their own communities. And we've got to create more opportunities for people. And that's not something that can happen in a generation's time or in five years time or, or after a seven year analysis. We've got to do it now. If we move with urgency and create better results in people's lives, then we won't have to worry about winning elections. That people will naturally know which party actually cares for them and they will see what's happening in the White House right now and know that that is just fool's gold.

[Nicole Wallace]

So cut. The bureaucracy is part of it. I mean, one of the things that there's a lot of urgency around right now is, of course, redistricting, given what Trump and the Republicans are doing across the country. You announced a redistricting advisory committee on Tuesday. I don't think there was, I don't think there was coincidence on Tuesday it being announced. You can speak to that. But I think you may have heard me and Chris Hayes talking about how commissions can sometimes sound like a punt. Right. Because the commission has to meet, they have to make advice, they have to advise. You're working in a political situation where the Senate president, who's a Democrat, is not exactly for redistricting, which I assume is a part of this. But how would this work? And what is the timeline and why the commission and not just move forward?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. I mean, the people of my state know that I'm, I'm an action guy and I'm definitely not a punter on things. But I think we also know that for me, announcing this governor's Redistricting Advisory Commission is a necessary and an important first step because what it's actually doing, it's creating a bipartisan commission that is going to be chaired by our senator, Senator Angela, also Brooks and is going to bring together leaders, bipartisan leaders from all across the state and actually make sure we're listening to people and hearing people's aspirations and knowing that we will have fair maps. And so as we're going through this process and as, and I've been very, very clear that, that, that we are going to ensure that Maryland has fair maps come next November. And I'm very clear that if the country is going to go through this process of having this mid cycle, mid decade look at do they have fair maps, then Maryland's going to do the same thing. And so I know that the Senate president has said that, that, that he feels different, you know, but one thing I do know is we agree on the crisis that we're in. We agree that we have a president who is weaponizing hunger. But I also know where we might disagree on the urgency that this moment requires. We disagree on the fight that this moment requires. And I'm just very clear from where I stand, I will never bend the knee for Donald Trump. And we need to make sure that we have fair maps inside of the state of Maryland.

[Nicole Wallace]

I raised that mainly because I think people may not be aware. You got to build support. You can't just wave a wand and do it. Every state has different laws, and this is part of it. Can it be done in time to get it done before 2026? If people approve it and if it goes through.

[Wes Moore]

We'Re going to let the commission do its work, we're going to let the commission do its job. But absolutely, this can be done in time.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me ask you, your predecessor, Larry Hogan, was quite critical of this decision. I believe he called it a cancer on our democracy today. He said this commission is a joke. You've described why you think it's important. I've been a huge advocate for people doing this. What's your reaction to that?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, my reaction is I have not, I haven't had time to, you know, read Republican Larry Hogan's Twitter timeline. But, but what I do know is this, is that when the president was trying to weaponize hunger and cut snap, that Larry Hogan had nothing to say. He just sat that one out. When the president of the United States was illegally trying to take the FBI building from the state of Maryland and we sued him for today, that Larry Hogan had nothing to say. He just sat that one out. That when the president of the United States was denying federal aid to western Maryland despite having historic floods, that Republican Larry Hogan, that guy, he had nothing to say and he just sat it out. So my advice to Republican Larry Hogan is this. On this issue, sit this one out, too.

[Nicole Wallace]

All right. There you go. Tough words for Larry Hogan, if you're watching. Larry Hogan, Governor Westmore, thank you so much for joining me. I know you've had a very busy couple weeks out on the campaign trail. Thanks again.

[Wes Moore]

Thank you so much.

[Nicole Wallace]

Okay, coming up, Donald Trump wants Senate Republicans to take the extraordinary step of nuking the filibuster. And he really wants you to think his goal is to end the shutdown. But it's not actually about that. Surprise, surprise. It's about holding onto power. Power that is after Tuesday, kind of feels like maybe it's slipping away. Probably doesn't feel good to him. Congressman Jamie Raskin is standing by to explain what's really going on here. I'll talk about, too. And he joins me next. Donald Trump has been doing something lately that sounds on the surface like it is pretty out of character. So it's obviously not looking like he's napping in the Oval Office. He's been musing about wanting to end the filibuster. And it is something, of course, that many Democrats have previously called for to get voting rights passed and to move Joe Biden's agenda forward at certain moments. This is not about policymaking for Trump, considering he has said that he has already accomplished much of what he wants to do with the big ugly bill. So is it about the shutdown as he claims? Well, that doesn't really make a lot of sense either, considering Republicans are in charge of the House and the Senate. And all he really needs to do there is allow the process of negotiating to really move forward, to let them strike a deal on some version of the extension of premium tax credits, something that is very, very popular. So what is this really about.

[Morris Katz]

Mr.

[Wes Moore]

President, given these modifications that are being made to air travel, the other disruptions with the government shutdown, do you think it's time for Republicans in Congress to change their negotiating position at all?

[Jamie Raskin]

In what way?

[Wes Moore]

To start making concessions to Democrats?

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, I think it's time for them to end the filibuster and just put everybody back to work. Vote in voter id, vote in no mail in voting except for military, faraway military and people that are very sick. No, I'd like to see one day voting. I'd like to see not 65 days of voting from all over the place. No, I'd like to clean up the election.

[Nicole Wallace]

There it is. Sometimes he just says the quiet part out loud. A whole lot of times I Mean, ending the filibuster is not actually about ending the shutdown. He went there so fast, it's about holding him to power. He's already strong arming Republican governors to try to get them to gerrymander seats. He's already trying to scare people with troops in the streets. And he figures if the filibuster went away, he would only need Republicans to pass restrictive voter ID laws and end mail in and early voting or significantly limit the number of days people can early vote. All things which are entirely possible if the filibuster goes away. Since the Republican Congress seems to do basically almost whatever Trump tells them to. All this is pretty transparent. He's afraid that next year's midterms will turn out just like this past Tuesday. The man may be prone to napping again in the Oval Office, but he can read a poll and he knows what a political shellacking feels like. It feels like Tuesday. And he knows that if Democrats win back control of Congress, he will no longer have absolute power. And he's gonna try to do everything he can to try to stop that from happening. So what I mean now is Congressman Jamie Raskin, ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. So, as I just said there, I don't think, think some of you disagree that Trump is some secret proponent of getting rid of the filibuster. This seems to me, feels to me like it's all a part of his plan to hold onto power, try to hold onto power. But what do you think?

[Jamie Raskin]

Sure, they want to get rid of the filibuster so they can get rid of mail in balloting, as he said, so they can prevent early voting. All of the practices that have opened voting up so a lot more people can participate. I mean, guess who uses mail in balloting. Donald Trump and his family and his cabinet. In the first term, they all use mail in balloting. It works all over the country. I think the state now with the highest voter turnout is Oregon because they've been doing mail in balloting the longest. And many more people, including older people, including disabled people, find it a lot easier to participate this way. But look, this has a long lineage in our history. He sees his policies are extremely unpopular. Taking away people's Medicaid, taking away people's access to health insurance, taking away way people's food benefits under snap. And so rather than change their policies or negotiate with Democrats the way he freely negotiates with Vladimir Putin in Alaska, rather than do any of that, he says, let's change the rules so we can steamroller through the United States Senate, a package of not reforms, but deforms in order to restrict voting. And that's just like the grandfather clause, the literacy test, the poll tax, all, all the disenfranchisement schemes that have been used historically to keep the wrong kind of people from voting. And that's exactly what Donald Trump and the MAGA team are up to right now, because they know their program is going to be repudiated in a landslide in 2026 the way it was repudiated in a landslide in at least five states on Tuesday. But actually, when you start looking at local and state elections, it's even more, it's not just New York, New Jersey, Virginia, but it's also Mississippi and it's Georgia. When you look at what's going on at the local and state level, they can see what's coming. So they want to change the rules right now.

[Nicole Wallace]

No question about it. And unfortunately, I think that if the filibuster were to go away, which Senate Republicans don't seem to be totally for, I think he'd get enough of them to vote for these things. And that's a scary prospect, which is why it's important to talk about. Let me ask you about the government shutdown because one of the things, I mean some moderate Democrats are reportedly considering a so called deal that would fund the government without any real guarantees. This is in the reporting, you know, that ACA subsidies would be saved, would be extended that are keeping premiums lower for people across the country. It doesn't, to me, it feels like Tuesday should feel empowering. But what do you think about that?

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, Donald Trump certainly got the point about Tuesday's election. I mean, it was a terrible blistering shellacking across the country. Anywhere people could vote against MAGA and against Donald Trump, they did. And even in some of the reddest districts, people moved significantly in the blue direction so they can read the writing on the wall. He understands what's happening and that's why he wants to change the rules in the Senate, so he can change the rules of voting so they can prevent the overwhelming majority of the American people from having our way. And so look, people want the government reopened. They understand the Republicans have dealt themselves a six week paid vacation. I mean, they're not coming to Washington and they're in their districts maybe, but they're certainly not having town hall meetings with anybody because they're afraid to face their constituents. So all that time we could have been negotiating, if they're really talking about negotiating Good faith. But no, they say, wink, wink, come on back, let's just reopen the government. Everything will be fine. No, they're going to continue to do what they've been doing. So we're going to hold the line for the health care for tens of millions of people and for SNAP benefits to reopen the government. And also, as somebody who represents tens of thousands of federal workers, I would like everybody who has been illegally riffed during this process to be reinstated as part of that deal. Sit down and negotiate. That's what real political leaders do. And they've got no problem negotiating with dictators around the world and giving $40 billion away to a would be dictator in Argentina or, you know, palling around with Vladimir Putin. But they won't even talk to fellow Americans to make the government work. That's why Donald Trump's poll numbers are plummeting and the fortunes of their party are sinking.

[Nicole Wallace]

Right now, it's literally their job to negotiate, to get things done for people. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you as always for joining me. Okay, coming up, I'm going to talk to a senior advisor behind Zoran Mamdani's big win in New York City who has now turned his attention to one of the most interesting Senate races in the country. But first, what does a guy throwing a sandwich have to do with the breaking news we got today about Trump's next target on his revenge tour? I'll explain after the break. The connection between the guests on the show is the show. All that we do is put together people who are smart, people who are brave, people who are honest, and lots of times people who've never met each other to have a conversation that has never happened before. But on that day deepens everyone's understanding about the moment in which we gather.

Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC.

It was like the shot heard round the world kind of, except it wasn't a shot. It was literally a foot long subway sandwich. Now, it all happened the night of August 10th at the very beginning of Trump's surge of federal law enforcement into D.C. when this man, D.C. resident Sean Dunn, approached a group of Customs and Border Patrol agents. Dunn called the officers fascists and racists and chanted the word shame at them. And then he threw what federal prosecutors later described as a, quote, wrapped sub style sandwich at one of the officers. Well, today, the federal trial against this man, Sean Dunn, also now known as just the sandwich guy, came to an end. Now, if you've been following the trial you know that the prosecution, the government, tried to focus the trial on the moment of impact, and I mean the moment of impact of the sandwich. The agent who was hit by the sandwich testified that he could feel the sandwich through his bulletproof proof vest. That's quite a Subway sandwich. He said the sandwich exploded all over and that he could smell the onions and mustard as the roll came apart. Now, the defense debunked that claim by showing photos of the sandwich after the throw, noting that it was still in its subway wrapping. But this case was obviously not actually about whether or not done through the sandwich or whether or not the impact of said sandwich and all the mustard hurt. The question at the core of this case was, is this incident serious enough to be considered a federal crime? How could it be? Today, A jury in D.C. answered that question with a big fat no. Sandwich thrower Sean Don has finally been acquitted. I say finally because as silly as it is for the federal government to try to be so serious and dire to about the impact of a sandwich and mustard and all of that, there was a real weapon at the center of this case, the Justice Department itself. I mean, in this week's trial, the defense argued that the Justice Department didn't just target Mr. Dunn because he threw a sandwich, but because Mr. Dunn publicly opposed the Trump administration's militarization of D.C. and because this incident became something of a symbol in the protest movement against Trump's authoritarian power grabs writ large. Dunn's lawyers argued that Justice Department was acting vindictively, not just in charging the cases of federal crime, but in how they publicized the case. You see, after Dunn threw the sandwich, again, we're still talking about a sandwich here. After he was arrested and released, his lawyer says that she tried to contact the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office and the D.C. jail so that Dunn could turn himself in, but they couldn't reach anyone. Then, in the very middle of the night, about 20 heavily armed federal agents performed a SWAT style raid of Mr. Dunn's apartment with a camera crew in tow. The White House even posted the video online. Trump's Attorney General, Pambonti reposted a photo of Dunn's face, announcing that he was charged with a felony. Then, when the Justice Department tried to actually get a federal grand jury to indict Dunn, they couldn't. But rather than drop the case, the Justice Department just downgraded the charge to misdemeanor assault, because that charge didn't require a grand jury to indict. They went through a lot of hoops here about a thrown sandwich. That was the charge Mr. Dunn was acquitted of today. And while that is incredibly embarrassing, or it should be, for Trump's Justice Department, there's also a degree to which, in this new era of Trump's weaponized Justice Department, convictions aren't even necessarily the point. Mr. Dunn has now had to endure three months of the Trump administration and right wing media vilifying him. He's had to find lawyers and get his affairs in order for the possibility that he might have ended up in prison. And Trump's Justice Department managed to inflict all of that pain undone. Even without a conviction, Trump's Justice Department has brought charges and opened investigations into a whole slew of Trump's perceived enemies, often with little to no evidence. Just today, MSNBC's Kundalini got the scoop that the Justice Department is preparing to issue subpoenas in an investigation against former CIA Director John Brennan over his investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election. Now, the likelihood of conviction in almost all these cases is slim to none. But as Mr. Dunn's case in D.C. shows us, even if the charges are literally baloney, there you go. You get it. The way the Justice Department brings them can still bite. I know I'm gonna roll with these puns. I could keep going, but I've gotta wrap it up because I'm about to talk to a top advisor on Zoran Mandani's campaign and I'm gonna ask him what his secret Sarah.

[Morris Katz]

One of the.

[Nicole Wallace]

Most exciting takeaways from this week is just how big the Democratic coalition has become. I mean, moderates with national security backgrounds like Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger won big, but so did a proud Democratic socialist like New York City Mayor Alexa Rahman Mamdani. But despite their differences, those winning candidates shared one thing in common. They fit a few things, I guess I should say in common, really, when I thought about it, they fit their communities, meaning they knew what issues their voters cared about. And it's a blueprint that candidates across the country are going to try to replicate as we look ahead to the 2026 midterms. And one 28 year old. If he's still 28, I'm going to ask him. Political advisor appears to understand the secret sauce. He's worked with an incredibly diverse range of candidates, from John Fetterman's defeat of Dr. Oz in 2022 to Dan Osborne's near upset of Republican Senator Deb Fischer last year In Nebraska, he served as a top advisor on Sauran Mamdani's winning campaign and looking ahead to the midterms. He is also working with Maine's U.S. senate candidate, Graham Platner, which is a very interesting race to watch. So joining me now is Morris Katz, a Democratic media and political consultant who probably has hardly slept this week. I'm very grateful you're here. I wanted to start, I read this great story where you were quoted and you talked about how you were in Nebraska or on your way to Nebraska helping Dan Osborne, a very different candidate than Zoran Mamdani.

[Morris Katz]

Absolutely.

[Nicole Wallace]

And you got a call and they asked you to meet with Mamdani and you were a little skeptical. What turned you around?

[Morris Katz]

I jokingly say it was love at first sight. It was a 33 year old Muslim socialist. And so I had the skepticism that a lot of folks had initially of how could this person win a primary? How can he get through in this modern kind of polarization, even within the party? But within just a few minutes of talking to him, I saw the clear laser focus on affordability. And what we talked about in that initial conversation was a lot of the public polling had public safety as the top issue. And he made the observation that he felt like that wasn't a reflection of people not struggling with an affordability crisis. It was a reflection of the fact that people had given up on government's ability to do something about that affordability crisis and had a clear vision for a campaign with focused, digestible ideas to address it. And also making the case that it's government's job to change these things. And I was compelled and thought voters would be too.

[Nicole Wallace]

It turns out you were right. Digestible is such a key part of that there' and I think you've said this a couple times, but you said that if you believe your candidate can pull something like that off, as in when you could just have to let him cook. That's our campaign motto, let Zoran cook. What it reminded me of and my old boss, Barack Obama used to talk about this. You have to kind of decide what you think as a candidate first. What are you actually for? Like throw out all of the poll tested language, but what does it mean for campaign managers out there for people who are aspiring to be on campaigns? What does it mean to let Zoron cook or let candidates cook?

[Morris Katz]

I think the single worst habit of the kind of consultant class and the political staffing class is a tendency to try to apply the same playbook to every single candidate that, you know, we should all have the same answers to every question, every press release should look the Same. An ad should look and sound the same. And these are all unique individuals and human beings. And the single most toxic thing you can be in American politics today is come across as a career politician or a status quo politician. And if you let these individuals be authentically who they are, voters see that. And voters want to see themselves reflected in their politics and see real people have a seat at the table.

[Nicole Wallace]

The anti establishment, but also not from Washington. Feeling right is kind of a key thing everybody's seeing out there. Another part of the strategy that I think hasn't received enough attention, but you tell me is that his strategy and your strategy as a campaign seem to be showing up in places people didn't expect. I mean, you didn't just go to parts of New York where everybody was just kind of fawn over him and say, I love you, I love you. Right. You went to places where you might lose, but you were gonna build some support. This reminds me in you may or may not agree with, like Senator Warnock's campaign in Georgia, where he showed up in very red parts of the state. How important is that and why is that so important?

[Morris Katz]

I think it's a massive component of Zorron's victory. And it comes from a belief that no person or community should be left behind. And just by showing up, you're sending a message, you know, I want to hear from you. You deserve to be heard. You deserve a place in our politics. And I think Zoran's vision of politics is one that is not limited by what has been, but willing to invest in the possibility of what can be. And you saw in the results on Tuesday, certain places, precincts that Donald Trump won in 2024 in New York City, Zoran winning with more votes than Donald Trump got even in an off year. And I think that's the result of showing up, of communicating, and of knowing that so many of these people who've been driven to Donald Trump, Trump were driven there by the reality of feeling like they had nowhere else to go. And if you make the outreach, if you show them that they can have a home, anything's possible.

[Nicole Wallace]

You also talked about kind of the both end strategy, or that's how I'm kind of defining it. Basically, you need to campaign on policies, but also not be afraid to push back on Trump. But you need to be disciplined. What does that mean, to be disciplined? Not undisciplined in terms of a winning campaign in your view in these days?

[Morris Katz]

Well, I think part of it is you can't pretend that Donald Trump is the end all be all of the problems we're facing right now. He's the symptom of a broken political system, of a corrupt Washington, of a massive income inequality. And when you understand that and see him through that prism, then it allows you to talk about those other issues, to talk about income inequality, to talk about the need for more jobs and better wages, and also push back on him because, as Zorn often talks about, he ran on a campaign promise that brought so many people in to lower costs to address the affordability cris and he's betrayed that idea. And so you can do both at the same time. You can go right after the core of Trump's support and paint an affirmative vision for what government can do if it actually cares about people.

[Nicole Wallace]

Morris Katz I think a lot of people out there are like, maybe I should do politics. I hope so. There needs to be a whole new generation.

[Morris Katz]

I hope they do.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thank you so much for joining me tonight. We've got us taking a very quick break. We'll be right back.

[Morris Katz]

Thanks, John.

[Nicole Wallace]

Today, Nancy Pelosi announced that after nearly four decades in Congress, she will not be seeking reelection. She first ran for Congress in 1987, and back then her campaign slogan was a voice that will be heard, and boy was it. She eventually went on to become the first and only woman to serve as speaker. She shepherded historic legislation under Presidents Obama and Biden. She also knew exactly how to stand up to Donald Trump, like in the oval office in 2018, where she not only told him off for disrespecting her, but then left the meeting in sunglasses and an iconic red coat as if to say, oh, honey, you must be new to town. There's also this photo, which may or may not have been my screensaver for a while, and during one State of the Union, she just ripped up his speech altogether. I could go on, but I'll stop there. Speaker in Emerita to say you will be missed is a huge understatement. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram and TikTok.

MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, she sits down with Pod Save America hosts Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor.

[Wes Moore]

To get people's attention nationally, you do need charismatic leaders, and I worry that we don't quite have that yet. Or at least no one's broken through in a big way.

[Nicole Wallace]

The best people with Nicole Wallace listen now. For early access ad, free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.