← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Saddled with Trump's unpopular agenda, Republicans look for ways to subvert voters before midterms
00:41:24
Jen Psaki looks at ways Republicans are trying to avoid accountability for Donald Trump's failures by rigging the election system to take power away from voters who would reject them.
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- [00:01]
LifeLock Announcer
It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, LifeLock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com Special Special offer terms apply.
- [00:31]
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You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [01:30]
MSNBC Host
The first thing I want to mention is right here on set, we're going to have Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva, Congressman Robert Garcia. They're going to join me here in studio for a joint interview momentarily. Now, by now you've likely heard that Grijalva would be the final signature required to trigger a vote on the Epstein files, and she's very willing to do that. And that Mike Johnson is refusing to swear her in. Congressman Garcia is the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee who has been fighting tooth and nail to get those files released. But that story is actually much bigger than just the Epstein files. So both of them are going to be right here at this table together in just a moment. We're going to talk all about that. But I want to start tonight with something that is definitely not a secret. We all see this. We all see the numbers. We all see it happening before our eyes. And and that is the indisputable fact that Donald Trump's agenda is deeply unpopular with the American people. So what do you do when your agenda is toxic and when the voters you rely on to hold power to vote for you don't actually like what you're doing with that power? Well, you make it harder for people to participate. You disempower voters. You do everything you can to rig the rules and break the process. And we've seen this all before. I mean, Trump and the MAGA movement have a long history of following this pattern. After all, this is the party that spent years passing laws that make it harder for people to vote. This is the party whose leader tried to overturn the results of a legitimate election, pressuring state officials to find him votes that didn't exist, submitting fraudulent election documents. And when none of that worked, unleashing a mob on the US Capitol and refusing to do anything to stop it. Now that same political movement has complete control of Congress, a president who delights in testing the limits of his power, and a conservative Supreme Court that has shown itself repeatedly ready to follow his lead. So, with an unpopular agenda, it's no surprise that Trump and his merry band of MAGA followers is now using this moment to try to game the system and disenfranchise voters. This was the scene outside the Supreme Court today. People standing up in support of voting rights signs all over the place. While inside the court, justices heard oral arguments in a case that could further erode the landmark protections of the Voting Rights Act. The case could allow the Court's conservative majority to essentially legalize gerrymandering by race, allowing Republicans to pick up a ton of congressional seats in the process. Here's how Justice Sotomayor spoke about the implications of doing just that. What you're suggesting is that people of one race, blacks in Louisiana, who will have to be 51% of the population before they'll be able to elect another black candidate. That means blacks never have a chance, no matter what their number is, until they reach more than 51%. I mean, it also kind of says a lot that the plaintiffs who originally brought the suit described themselves as non African American voters who have been discriminated against. And yet the conservative majority on the court appeared to be leaning toward a decision in their favor. You can see a headline from NBC that says just that. Just to give you a sense of what that would mean for our country, this is what the congressional map of the southeastern United States currently looks like. And this is what it could look like if the Court lets Republicans redraw their maps with these Voting Rights act protections. In all, Republicans could pick up as many as 19 congressional seats if the judges rule in their favor. That's not 19 seats. Republicans win by convincing voters to support them because their agenda is better. It's 19 districts where Republicans would basically have a built in advantage. And this comes as Republicans are already rigging congressional maps or trying to rig them in seven different states. And they're actively undermining any Democratic check on their power in the process. I mean, take for example, Missouri, where Republicans are hard at work trying to redraw their maps. A grassroots group of voters who are opposed, of course, to this effort has been out there on streets trying to collect signatures to put these new maps on the ballot, so at least voters would actually have a say. But today, Missouri's Republican Attorney General announced that she is now suing the organizers of that grassroots effort. Today, Missouri's Republican Secretary of State also announced that he will not count any signatures that have already been collected as part of that effort. The Republican official said that because he hadn't yet signed off on the effort, all of those signatures that have been collected are not only invalid, but anyone collecting them had committed, quote, a misdemeanor election offense. Just to pause on that for just a moment, the Secretary of State in Missouri is saying that grassroots efforts that help ensure voters get to decide if they want new maps are a crime. Now, if you are confident you are going to get support for your position, those are definitely not the tactics you would ever need to use. Just contrast that for a second with what's happening in California where Democrats have launched their own redistricting campaign to counter Republicans. In California, Democrats have embraced letting voters decide whether or not to approve their plan. They've even recruited former President Obama to help them make their case to voters about why they should support the redistricting plan. But at the end of the day, it's up to voters. That is what it looks like when a party is actually committed to democracy. In the Democratic process, Republicans want to disenfranchise voters with these new maps so they have no qualms about disenfranching voters on the road to passing them. And the Republicans efforts to rigor elections go well beyond redrawing congressional maps. They're also using their maps, their power, to make it harder to vote in any way that they can. Earlier this year, Trump vowed to end the use of mail in ballots across the country. With so many people rely on. And just last week, the Supreme Court's conservative majority signaled that they would side with a Trump ally challenging the use of mail in ballots in his state. A case that could pave the way for other Republicans to bring similar challenges against mail in voting. And the Trump administration may be looking to rigor elections in more overtly controlling ways as well. We're seeing it play out on our streets. Trump is deploying troops to several major American cities, and what he he says is an effort to crack down on crime, despite the fact that they are not trained to fight crime in cities, they are trained to fight in war zones. And some elected officials in those cities have been warning that those occupations are about much more than crime.
- [08:19]
Political Analyst
He wants to militarize major cities across the United States, especially blue cities in blue states, because he wants us to get used to the idea of military on the streets, military troops, because they're 2026 elections. I believe that he's going to post people outside of ballot boxes and polling places, and if he needs to, in order to control those elections, he'll assume control of the ballot boxes and count the votes themselves himself. He promised to do that. He threatened to do that back in 2020. Didn't get the chance to do it. I believe he would do it in 2026.
- [08:57]
MSNBC Host
Look, I'd love to sit here and tell you I don't believe it will come to that. The truth is that Trump and his party are already showing us they're willing to go to new lengths to deny voters their Democratic representation so that they can hold onto power. That's what this is all about. Just over three weeks ago, more than 100,000 Arizonans went to the polls to vote in a special election for Arizona's 7th congressional district. And those voters chose Democratic candidate Adelita Grijalva to be their next member of Congress. But three weeks later, those voters still do not have a voice in Congress. That's because Republican speaker of the House Mike Johnson has refused to swear in Adelaide Grijalva as a duly elected member of Congress, even though he swore in several Republicans who won their special elections earlier this year. Today, Adelita Grijalva was in Washington, D.C. to demand her voters get the representation that they deserve.
- [09:52]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
The people of Southern Arizona has spoken clearly. Yet more than 812,000 people are still denied their voice in Congress. Every day that I am not sworn in is another day that my constituents are blocked from critical constituent services and excluded from debates happening right now that affect their lives. Now is the time for Speaker Johnson to perform his duty and swear me in without further delay. I don't need bells and whistles. I don't need pomps in circumstance. I just need to get to work for Southern Arizona.
- [10:25]
MSNBC Host
That's it. For weeks now, the fight to seat Adelaide Grijalva has centered around the Epstein files and the fact that she could cast the deciding vote, said she would on the discharge petition that would compel the Department of Justice to release those files, which is against the wishes of Mike Johnson and Donald Trump. And I have no doubt that is a huge part of the motivation between behind why she is not being seated. But it's worth keeping in mind that this is also about respecting the voices of voters and our democratic process. If Mike Johnson can indefinitely delay seating a duly elected member of Congress, what's to stop him from doing the same to other Democratic members in the future? What will happen if Donald Trump decides to question the results of the next elections the way he has time and time again? What if Democrats win back the House by two seats or three seats? Will Mike Johnson refuse to recognize the will of voters in any election if Trump doesn't like the outcome? That is what is at stake right now. And it is why pushback against all of these efforts is so important. Like the pushback we are seeing from Democratic governors and grassroots groups looking to counter Republican gerrymandering. And the pushback we saw both inside and outside the courts today in defense of the Voting Rights act and the peaceful pushback we are seeing every day to the military takeover of major American cities. And now the pushback we are seeing against Mike Johnson for his refusal to recognize the will of Arizona voters. The good news is a whole lot of people are pushing back. This was the scene outside Mike Johnson's office last night. Democratic members of Congress swarming the Speaker's office chanting swear her in, demanding that Mike Johnson officially admit their newly elected colleague into Congress. Meanwhile, the Democratic Attorney General of Arizona is now threatening legal action against Mike Johnson. So the fight by Trump and his MAGA minions to hold on to power no matter what, is being waged on multiple fronts. And the effort to seat Adelita Grijalva may be an early test of how far Republicans will go and what happens when people push back. Representative Elect Adelita Grijalva and the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia, join me here in just 90 seconds.
- [12:37]
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- [13:07]
Indeed Announcer
You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs. Your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [14:06]
Angie Hicks
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well. Electrical upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality pros@angie.com.
- [14:45]
MSNBC Host
As promised. Joining me now for a joint interview, Congresswoman Alexa Adelita Grijalva of Arizona and a ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. I'm just going to call you Congresswoman because that's what you should be called, so let me just start there. I know you've had a very strange and frustrating couple of weeks, and obviously Mike Johnson's refusal to swear you in has turned into a real flashpoint for people. And I know it's frustrating for people in your district. I just wanted to play something he said today. You may have seen this, but let's just play it because I want to hear what you have to think about it on the other side.
- [15:18]
Speaker Mike Johnson
Okay, so she says that you're afraid of her being the 218th signer to the Epstein petition to release the files, that if she were a Republican, you would have sworn her in. What do you say?
- [15:30]
Senator Andy Kim
I say bless her heart, she's a representative elect. She doesn't know how it works around here. We're going to give her the oath of office as soon as we get back to regular session. As soon as Chuck Schumer and the Democrats vote to reopen the government.
- [15:43]
MSNBC Host
Bless her heart, she doesn't understand how this works. That's kind of oozing with condescension. But what do you say to that?
- [15:49]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
It's so patronizing. And if you know this doesn't have anything to do with the Epstein files, he's had ample opportunity to swear me in on pro forma sessions, which is what he did with two Republicans.
- [16:01]
MSNBC Host
No problem.
- [16:02]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
So I do know how this works. I'm wondering if he remembers what his job is, is to swear us in so we can do ours.
- [16:09]
MSNBC Host
He doesn't seem to remember. He should be leading efforts to reopen the government. So it sounds like he doesn't. Let me ask you, I mean, you have had to tangle with Mike Johnson and others in an effort to get the Epstein files released and fight for what you want to happen on the committee. What did you think when you heard that?
- [16:26]
Speaker Mike Johnson
Well, first, let's be very clear. It was sexist. It was condescending. Beneath what a speaker should say. At the end of the day, he's a speaker for the entire US House, and so he should be ashamed of those comments. And look, I think that what Mike Johnson's gonna have to deal with is with an energized new Democratic Party of what Adelica Grijalva is gonna be a part of, is now a part of our team. And we're gonna be holding these Republicans and Mike Johnson and Pam Bondi and, and Vance and Donald Trump accountable for this massive cover up that they're involved in right now as it relates to the Epstein files. And during this shutdown, we've been saying very clearly, let's end the shutdown, let's swear in Adelita and let's release the files.
- [17:09]
MSNBC Host
Seems pretty simple. There's a way to do it when you're in charge of everything. One of the things I just started the show talking about is the people of your district elected you. They want to be able to visit your office, they want to be able to call your office for constituent services. They can't do that right now. And I think in addition to every. Everything you're experiencing, they're experiencing, there is this dangerous precedent of it seeming okay to just decide as the speaker of the House not to swear people in. Do you think we should all be concerned that a little over a year from now that Mike Johnson could make that choice if Democrats win back the House?
- [17:42]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
It's a really dangerous precedent. The bedrock of our democracy is free and fair elections. And so on every front, they're attacking that. And there are 812 people in, in my district that deserve to have a voice here in Congress that need somebody there when they knock on a door to get some help from their congressional representative, and they don't have that person there. And Speaker Johnson doesn't seem to care about that. The fact that I have more people in my district than he does. We need to dedicate voice and energy to those who don't have one. And it's important for him to do his job.
- [18:17]
MSNBC Host
Are you concerned about this as well?
- [18:19]
Speaker Mike Johnson
It's completely outrageous. I mean, there are. I mean, hundreds of thousands of people deserve representation in the Congress. What he's doing right now is also unprecedented. There have been other members that he has brought in, seated immediately. She has now also been certified. The election has been certified by the governor, by the secretary registrars out there in the state of Arizona, and yet she's being refused her voice. So, honestly, I think it's incredibly alarming that you have this strong woman represented and elected by her community. Mike Johnson is making these quite, I think, stunning comments about Adelita. She's ready to get in there and fight, and I think we need every voice, and she's denying the people of Arizona their voice.
- [19:04]
MSNBC Host
Would he be saying, bless her heart about a man? I think we know the answer to that one. Let me ask you. There are a lot of people fighting on your behalf. We played a lot of this. People who are outside Mike Johnson's office. Obviously, you're here. The Attorney General of Arizona, Chris Mace, has started to threaten Mike Johnson with legal action if he continues to refuse to swear you in. Have you been in touch with her about that, or do you know what the status of that is at this point?
- [19:29]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
Yes, she let me know that she was gonna be sending a demand letter, basically swear her in. Racist certified, which exceeds what the requirements were for three other people that were sworn in and specials by this speaker this year. And so when we talk about what those issues are, what your concern, I mean, the timing is very suspect, isn't it, that the only issue, the 217th signer to the petition was in under 24 hours. But there is a really big delay for me and this argument that, well, the government is shut down, so she can't be sworn in. The whole freshman class was sworn in during a shutdown. So all of the excuses are just that. I wish you would just be honest and say, I'm dragging my feet because I'm trying to get at least one other person, one Republican, to take their name off the petition.
- [20:22]
MSNBC Host
Well, that feels like what it's about. I mean, you've Been kind of keeping people on board here over the course of the last several weeks. Are people still on board? Do you have any. Should I be positive here and suggest that, like, maybe people will be so annoyed by this, you could get more Republicans, like, what's the status?
- [20:39]
Speaker Mike Johnson
We're working on it. Let's be really clear. This is a, this Epstein investigation. What's going on right now? This is a White House cover up that Mike Johnson is now involved in. He is clearly shutting down the government, denying people pay. Our military in the United States may not get their pay because Mike Johnson is now trying to protect Donald Trump and Donald Trump's wishes around the Epstein files and this investigation. When you have Jeffrey Epstein saying Donald Trump was his best friend for 10, 15 years, when Donald Trump is trying to. All throughout the campaign said, we're gonna release the files, and then doesn't. Something is going on. And I hope that the public understands that. With every day that passes, there are more questions. This whole thing becomes much more suspicious. It's time to swear in Adelita and it's time to release the Epstein files.
- [21:25]
MSNBC Host
I know you were elected for a number of reasons and probably not to be. The 218th vote in the discharge petition, that wasn't even on people's minds. Is that something people are now tracking in your district as an issue they now care about?
- [21:38]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
They just want transparency. That was the big issue. This issue never came up when I was running for office. It's all about public education, protecting our environment, protecting our democracy, protecting our rights, sovereignty. Those are the issues they wanted me to work on. And it's really interesting that I'm on a show like yours, which, by the way, love your show.
- [21:58]
MSNBC Host
Watch it all the time, but come back anytime.
- [22:00]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
But you know, on the BBC News for not getting to work. That's the frustration for me is that I don't want to be in this position because I'm not doing my job and I can't do mine. I literally cannot. They gave us the keys. I can open the door and it's a space. Phones don't work, no computers. Those are real issues. And I can't go into leases to open up offices in my district. We have three ports of entry with Mexico. Immigration and tariffs are a huge issue. The economy are a huge issue in my district and I can't get to work at all on any of those issues.
- [22:35]
MSNBC Host
It's such an important note to end on because ultimately you're representing the people in your districts and they rely on members of Congress. For constituent services, for so many things that communities need. And right now, they don't have that. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. I'm gonna keep calling you that for being here.
- [22:50]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Always.
- [22:51]
MSNBC Host
Great to see you. Thank you both for joining me.
- [22:53]
Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
Thank you.
- [22:54]
MSNBC Host
All right, we're gonna take a quick break. Excuse me. But after that, Donald Trump and his henchmen Russ Vogt, you know, the guy thought they could just fire people however and whenever they want. But today a federal judge said, not so fast. Senator Andy Kim is standing by and he joins me here at the table. When we come back, Foreign.
- [23:15]
LifeLock Announcer
Security Awareness Month. And Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com specialoffer terms apply.
- [23:44]
Indeed Announcer
You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast, just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [24:44]
Angie Hicks
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair, done well. Kitchen sink install, done well. Deck upgrades, done well. Electrical Upgrade, done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros.
- [25:04]
MSNBC Host
For nearly 30 years.
- [25:06]
Angie Hicks
So we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality pros@angie.com.
- [25:19]
MSNBC Host
So Republicans shut down the government and ran away from Washington is really the only way to describe it. And now they're using this shutdown as cover for their plans to fire thousands of people from the government. Over 4,000 workers have received notices that they're on the chopping block as Project 2025 architect Russ Vote chases a goal of firing 10,000 federal workers. Now, those cuts have hit everywhere, from infectious disease monitoring, the cdc, to the Department of Education's Office of Special Education. But unions for federal workers sued the Trump administration, and today they won. Today, a judge issued a ruling that blocks all of the firings for the time being. But the Trump administration has made it clear they can and will put a target on the backs of federal workers. And it led Senator Andy Kim, a Democrat from New Jersey and a former career federal worker himself, to speak out for those workers today.
- [26:10]
Senator Andy Kim
We owe them better than what they're seeing right now and how they're being treated. We owe them better than a politics that demonizes them and their work. And we also see the president and his mob boss, like cronies like Russell Vote and Stephen Miller continuing to step up and use our government weaponizing as a tool for political retribution and political extortion. We owe our public servants better.
- [26:37]
MSNBC Host
Joining us now is Senator Andy Kim, a Democrat from New Jersey. It's so interesting and powerful to have somebody who is a former civil servant themselves to be in the Senate and understand what these workers are going through. I just talked about the court case and the ruling today. So what's your reaction to that?
- [26:52]
Senator Andy Kim
Well, look, I'm glad that the federal workers got some reprieve today, but they're still very nervous about this. And when I went back to New Jersey, I sat with some federal workers in a diner, and they said something that really stuck with me. They said, you know, I just want you to know we're not just feeling this way since October 1st with this shutdown. We've been feeling this way since January 20th. You know, this administration has been systematically trying to antagonize them, trying to make their life hell. I mean, we saw that with what Russell Vogt said before, which is he said he wants to traumatize federal workers. He wants them to wake up feeling like the enemy. And one of them said that, you know, mission accomplished. He wakes up every day feeling like he is painted as a target, as the enemy. And, you know, so this is something where, you know, people are really struggling right now. But I will say one thing, and I say this as someone who used to be a federal worker of a career civil servant is, you know, these federal workers told me that, you know, they swore an oath to protect and defend this Constitution. And yes, they're going through a lot right now, but they tell me, hold the line. There's so much at stake right now. They could have taken any job. The reason why these federal workers chose to serve our country is because they believe in our democracy.
- [28:05]
MSNBC Host
That's a very powerful message for people to be offering who are going through this. There was this discussion during the last shutdown fight that Democrats shouldn't back a shutdown because Russ Vogt and Project 2025 World would try to do these mass firings. It seems to me that makes it clear that they had every intention of always doing this. What's your impression of that?
- [28:26]
Senator Andy Kim
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, this is their playbook. And when you see the president and Russell vote gleefully saying that they have the chance to be able to fire all these federal workers, they have the chance to be able to go after Democratic projects, including, you know, President Trump saying today that he wants to terminate the Gateway Tunnel project, which would be devastating, not just for my state, but for this country. You know, these are the kind of mob boss tactics that people can't stand. And I honestly think that it's backfiring because how can you credibly try to look the people in the eye as Speaker Johnson tries to do and say he doesn't want to shut down, while you are also gleefully talking about how you can use this to be able to get good things done and go after these programs that you've been wanting to do? You know, this is the problem that we see of the weaponization of our government by Donald Trump.
- [29:14]
MSNBC Host
No question about it. You have such an interesting background. You've seen, I mean, you've worked in the national security space. You're now in the Senate. You've campaigned across New Jersey. I started the show kind of talking about all of the different things that the Trump administration appears to be doing, in my view, to make it harder for people to participate in the process. Military in the streets fighting, you know, against voting rights. How do you see this? And how concerned are you about what they're going to try to do before the midterm election?
- [29:40]
Senator Andy Kim
Well, I'm very concerned about this. You know, I think this is incredibly dangerous moment when I look at what's happening. What we see right now is we don't have three functioning branches of government right now. We have one branch of government that is trying to dominate the other branches of government and make them subservient to his will. And that is a danger. He is absolutely going after the fundamentals of our Constitution on the eve of our 250th anniversary as a country. And I hope that the American people see that. And I hope that they recognize what, what is at stake and why this is so important for us to stand up against.
- [30:17]
MSNBC Host
There's a big election in New Jersey, I don't know if you've heard, coming up in just a few weeks. I know you're involved in it when you can be. How important is this election and race and what do you think people should take away from the outcome if Mikey Sherrill wins?
- [30:32]
Senator Andy Kim
Well, look, it's very important. I mean, it's certainly we're looking to elect the next governor that's going to be the governor to my kids and my family. But it's also about sending a message across this country. I was saying to some New Jerseyans this past weekend that we are like the Iowa, New Hampshire of the midterm elections. This is going to set the tone for what comes next. And hopefully, as the history books are written about how we get out of this tailspin as a country, hopefully they will write that New Jersey helped show the way. But there's a lot at stake right now. And again, I want to bring it back down to the people, the people that are really struggling. You know, the people that are telling me how they're so scared about losing their health care, you know, that they're so worried about what's happening. And what I want to link is that the reason why your health care is costing so much is because of just this blatant corruption of this administration, an administration that's spending, what, over $20 billion bailing out Argentina, where 40 now. It sounds like 40 now. Whereas, you know, to be able to fund the ACA subsidies for one year, it was $35 billion. So they'd rather give that away to Argentina rather than to the American people. You know, this is clearly something that is just about undermining the fabric of our Constitution and hurting so many families. And for what? I mean, I keep saying this over and over again. You know, Donald Trump has made billions of dollars since January 20th. How much has your family made since January 20th? You know, it is clearly a profiteering off the Oval Office that we've never seen before in the history of this country. And that's why your health care costs so much more.
- [32:09]
MSNBC Host
That's a very good way to end this conversation. Senator Andy Kim, you can always span the gamut with you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining me.
- [32:16]
Senator Andy Kim
Thanks for having me.
- [32:17]
MSNBC Host
Okay, we're coming up. Republicans have accused Democrats of censoring social media and decrying it as tyranny. But when one of their own brags about doing the same thing. Crickets. More on that just ahead. You may remember that back in 2022, two Republican attorneys general, one from Missouri, the other from Louisiana, sued the Biden administration, accusing the federal government of violating the First Amendment by allegedly asking social media companies to suppress certain accounts and posts, namely the ones that were spreading misinformation about COVID 19 and vaccines during the height of the pandemic. Now complete full disclosure here. In my capacity as the White House press Secretary, I was named in this lawsuit not because I was ever in touch with these social media companies directly, because I was not, but simply because I talked about the efforts to ensure accurate information about COVID 19 and the vaccines was shared with the public at the height of the pandemic. From the podium and over the course of many months. The case ultimately landed before the United States Supreme Court, who then effectively rejected it, saying the plaintiffs lacked the legal standing to sue. But before the Supreme Court weighed in, the Republican Party kind of lost their minds.
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Speaker Mike Johnson
The White House actively coerced every major.
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LifeLock Announcer
Social media platform in America.
- [33:46]
Speaker Mike Johnson
Let me say that again, Every major.
- [33:49]
MSNBC Host
Social media platform in America to ban speech that the White House did not like.
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Indeed Announcer
The people who censor speech, when we.
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MSNBC Host
Look back in history, they're never the good guys. And it's inevitable that if you do start censoring speech because government abuses every.
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LifeLock Announcer
Power that it's given, it's clear that.
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MSNBC Host
Facebook was operating at the direction of.
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Senator Andy Kim
And in the direct benefit of the federal government.
- [34:16]
MSNBC Host
So you just heard Ted Cruz say there. The accusation was that Facebook was operating at the direction of and for the direct benefit of the federal government. Now, keep in mind that all in mind, I should say, as we fast forward to the events of the past few days when we witnessed with our own eyes the current Attorney General, Pam Bondi, not exactly a social media staffer in the White House, but more senior than that, bragging about how she was able to pressure Facebook into, wait for it, operating for the direct benefit of the federal government. Quote. Today, following outreach from the Justice Department, Facebook removed a large group page that was being used to dox and target ICE agents in Chicago. The wave of violence against ICE has been driven by online apps and social media campaigns designed to put ICE officers at risk just for doing their jobs. The Department of Justice will continue engaging tech companies to eliminate platforms where radicals can incite imminent violence against federal law enforcement. And while there was a lot in there and Bondi provided zero evidence to back her claims of doxing and targeting on all of that. What she appears to be referencing is a Facebook group called ICE Sightings Chicagoland. It had over 90,000 members who primarily shared information about where ICE operations were being conducted in their communities. Which, can you blame them given the brutality we have seen over the last several weeks and even months? Listen, I am not condoning or defending all of the posts in that Facebook group. I have not looked through all of them either. Obviously not the ones that are threatening or harmful, should they even exist. The point is, though, that MAGA Republicans like Ted Cruz have screamed for years about how big tech censorship is the single greatest threat to free speech in America. And yet when big tech actually censors people at the request of Trump's Justice Department and the Attorney general literally says she will use the power of the federal government to continue to get tech companies to eliminate platforms, crickets, the outrage suddenly disappears. And it's not just from MAGA officials. The double standard is coming from the tech companies, too. I mean, it was just last year that Mark Zuckerberg told the Republican led House Judiciary Committee how much he regretted cooperating with the Biden administration during COVID that federal interference was a wrong move that he'd fight in the future, saying, we're ready to push back if something like this happens again. Well, not only is Zuckerberg not pushing back, now he is radio silent. Funny how that works, isn't it? Coming up, remember that $20 billion bailout to Argentina we told you about last night? Well, today we got news that the number doubled. CNBC's Andrew Russlerkin is standing by and he joins me. You might remember we reported last night on how Donald Trump has pledged $20 billion billion with a B to bail out Argentina's Trumpy government. Well, today Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen offered an update. He told reporters that there is a new pile of money earmarked for Argentina, a quote, adjacent sum to the 20 billion Trump has already promised. Now, that adjacent figure just happens to also be $20 billion. And what is 20 billion plus 20 billion? Luckily, the Treasury Secretary is very good at math. Quote, that would be a total of $40 billion for Argentina. To be clear, that is $40 billion of American taxpayer money. Your money. Donald Trump and his treasury secretary want to send all that money to South America, during the shutdown, no less. And Even though that $40 billion is not helping you, it is helping someone. The New York Times reporting that wealthy investors stand to make a windfall of cash if this bailout goes through, including Two with direct ties to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant himself. It is important to remember though, that this $40 billion for Argentina is not a done deal. Trump says Argentina only gets the money if the Trumpy Argentinian president stays in power after the elections next week. In other words, Trump has just given the Argentine electorate a choice. Either vote for Trump's political ally or suffer total economic collapse. So we have election interference enriching her friends all at the expense of the taxpaying American people. It's almost a perfect encapsulation of this presidency all in one little tidy story. Oh, and I almost forgot, the whole thing seems to have backfired. The Times reports today that after Trump's mobby threat to the people of Argentina yesterday, the peso tumbled as investors went on a panicked selling spree of Argentina's currency. Mr. Milei's political opponents rallied against what they called American extortion, urging voters to reject his party at the polls. And Mr. Milei's government rushed to try to assure Argentines that Mr. Trump wouldn't abandon the nation based on Mr. Milei's political fortunes. Okay, now it's the perfect encapsulation of this presidency. Joining me now is Andrew Russurkin. He's the co anchor of CNBC Squawk Box and New York Times columnist and the author of the brand new book 1929 Inside the Greatest Crash in History and How It Shattered a Nation. I cannot wait to fully read the totality of this book and I will need a weight to carry it. But let me start by asking you, and I want to talk all about your book. Let me ask you about Argentina, because this bailout, there's obviously a lot wrapped up in this one. But what do you make of this announcement from Secretary Besant that the ballot is now doubling and also the reaction to all of this in Argentina over the last 24 hours?
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Andrew Ross Sorkin
Well, look, I think it is just clear this is leverage or they are attempting to create leverage over Argentina. But it is true that it is backfiring. And I would give you an analogy or maybe something just to parallel with Eric Adams here in the city of New York, where I am, you know, I think in large part because of the deal that he struck with President Trump. And obviously he had his own problems. Let's just say the people of the city effectively said we can't have you as the mayor. So I think that even though clearly the President seems to think that the people in Argentina would want the $20 billion, or in this case now the $40 billion. I think there's a strong political force at play where people say, I don't want to be under the thumb of some other country. And so it's a very interesting question to talk about the art of the deal, about how this is all going to play out over the next week.
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MSNBC Host
No question. We'll get up early and listen to you talk about it. Okay, so Your new book, 1929, uses all sorts of fascinating historical records and uncovered documents to piece together and tell the really complex story of the 1929 stock market crash. Not only the fallout, but also the circumstances that led to it. And in one line in your book, you write, if the characters, issues, and policy choices from that time appear to echo our present moment a little too clearly, that's because they do. That's quite a tease. You're also an expert, of course, on the 2008 crash, so you know a lot about history. Tell us about some of those parallels you're seeing, especially as cryptocurrency and AI seem to be transforming our financial landscape.
- [41:21]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Well, I think that's a piece of it. I mean, one of the things that happened in the 1920s was this idea of democratizing finance for Americans. People in cities wanted it. They wanted the lottery ticket. They saw the elites. This actually has a lot to do with inequality. They saw the elites making a lot of money trading stocks, and they wanted in on it. And, of course, the elites, if you will, were always quite happy to try to make money off of everybody else by lending people money so that they could trade. And that ultimately is what brought down the market. There was just too much leverage in the system. But, you know, as I was working on this book and spending time trying to create sort of a cinematic story about what was happening inside these rooms with these fascinating characters like Charlie Mitchell, who ran a bank called National City, who was almost the Jamie Dimon of his time, and a guy named Carter Glass, who was a senator in Virginia, who was the Elizabeth Warren of his time, screaming, by the way, about Mitchellism and how many Wall street was going to undo the world. What you saw is playing out in so many ways today, which is a lot of the guardrails are coming off. There were very little guardrails then. Everything is being. We talk about crypto, private equity, venture capital. All this stuff is going to end up in our retirement accounts soon. I mean, literally, that is a huge component of what that whole genius act is that the Trump administration put in place. And then there's, you know, tariffs. I was writing this book thinking I was writing about 1929. Then all of a sudden I'm writing it, and President Trump says that he's going to put tariffs on. This is the same thing that President Hoover was doing. He had pledged to do this to try to get farmers, frankly, to vote for him in 1928. That's what was happening. And he said he wanted to continue. He wanted to make good on his pledge. Every economist in America was saying, please don't do this. The bankers were going to New York, going down to D.C. saying, they were saying, please don't do this the same way they did six months ago and continue to, to President Trump today. So there's a lot of unfortunate similarities, and I'd throw one last one at you. We talk a lot about the independence of the Federal Reserve these days and how important that is. Well, one of the reasons we had a crisis in 1929 and one of the reasons they didn't do anything beforehand or really afterwards is because they were worried about the politics of the moment. They were such a new institution that they weren't actually independent. They were born in 1913, and they were worried not just about getting called up in front of Congress, they were worried that the Fed might be eliminated if they are the ones who are going to get blamed for everything that was happening.
- [43:51]
MSNBC Host
Andrew Ross Sorkin, your book Too Big to Fail and I Lived through the Financial Crisis is the best book about that period. I don't know who's lived through this, who's still around, but a great book. Thank you for being here with us and for drawing all the parallels.
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Congresswoman Elect Adelita Grijalva
Appreciate it.
- [44:05]
MSNBC Host
Okay, we're gonna sneak in a quick break, and then we're gonna give you a sneak peek of season two of my podcast, the Blueprint. The first two episodes are out now. We'll be right back. Okay. So we've been working very hard on my podcast, the Blueprint of the second season that the first two episodes are at end. The episode one features a conversation with the chair of the Progressive Caucus and rising Democratic star Greg Kazar. And episode two was recorded at this year's MSNBC Live event. In that episode, you're gonna hear my conversation with the amazingly irreverent host of the I've had it podcast, Jennifer Welch and Angie Pump Sullivan. You'll also hear me and Rachel Maddow answering audience questions at that event. All of that's in that episode. So I'm gonna play a preview for you of my conversation with Congressman Kazar. And as it plays, there's going to be a QR code that's going to be in the corner of your screen that will scan and you can subscribe. Here it is. Let me ask you about something that is another kind of debate and it's a big electoral question really is this question of litmus tests, right. And what candidates should be a part of running as Democrats. How do you see it? I mean, because there's a question of should the Democratic Party recruit candidates or financially support, which matters because you need that money when you're running for Congress. Sometimes times people who are not pro choice, people who are members of the nra, things like that. What do you think?
- [45:36]
Congressman Greg Kazar
Look, I, from my time on the City council and now even as Progressive caucus chair, recognize that we need a really sizable majority of the American people with us if we want to achieve our progressive goals. And so I've always been used to donating money and raising money for folks that are to the right on me on a variety of issues. I think that we do need to turn off some of our litmus tests because we need a the vast majority of the public with us. I'm not the first person out here trying to make sure the Democratic Party is more conservative, to be clear. But, but my job, I think, is to make sure that our progressive movement is a bigger tent, that more and more people can identify with and connect with our overwhelmingly progressive economic message and that we keep moving people on those social issues that we need to move them on. But I have campaigned and will continue to campaign for Democrats that are more conservative than me that we need to win in more conservative areas to have a majority.
- [46:42]
MSNBC Host
That's just a little preview of our second season of the Blueprint that does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [46:56]
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