← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
'Shut this White House down': Platner talks strategy to stop Trump
00:40:57
Graham Platner, Democratic candidate for Senate from Maine, talks with Jen Psaki about the role Donald Trump plays in his race and with the voters he hopes to make his constituents, and discusses the posture Democrats should take to make the most of any political power they are able to attain in the midterm elections.
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms. But progress isn't guaranteed. Today. Those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs, with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 511-511-Text MSNOW to 511-51-511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply.
- [00:30]
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- [00:51]
Chris Hayes
Ok, it seems like speaking of politics and elections, we're all thinking about them, right? It seems like little Mike Johnson has finally, finally settled on his pitch for the midterms. He has managed to boil it all down to one simple message.
- [01:08]
House Republican Spokesperson (possibly Steve Scalise)
House Republicans continue to deliver for the American people. We will continue to do that for the remainder of the year. And that is a large reason why we are going to win the midterms so that the grownups can stay in charge here. They have full on Trump derangement syndrome, okay. And it informs how they see the world and how they react and how irresponsible they are now is on full display for the whole country. I hope voters remember this in the fall. You gotta keep the grownups in charge and that's the Republicans.
- [01:37]
Chris Hayes
Does that make Mike Johnson the grown up? Like if you're a grownup you don't have a spine. That's how it goes these days. Who knows. But that's their message du jour of this week. Well, today the 79 year old man child in charge of all of those little grownups was on Truth Social bragging about the cognitive test he passed not once, not twice, but three times. You know the tests where you name the animals drawn on a piece of paper and Donald Trump might have felt the need to brag about acing those tests because lots of people noticed that he can't even keep his war straight right now.
- [02:14]
Donald Trump
I think Ukraine, militarily, they're defeated, okay? You wouldn't know that by reading the fake news, but militarily, look, their Navy, So they had 159 ships every ship is right now underwater. They have no navy, no air force, no anti aircraft apparatus other than what they may have put there. They may have brought in some light stuff during the ceasefire.
- [02:40]
Chris Hayes
Ukraine is defeated. That's what he said. All their ships are underwater. I think you mean Iran there, pal. Iran. See, Donald Trump doesn't even know which war he's talking about. So I'm gonna put this in terms I think he can probably understand. Donald Trump started a war with Iran. That war with Iran has made the price of gas go up. And gas is the thing that makes cars go zoom. Got it. And thanks to the war Trump started with Iran, Americans have spent the last two months watching the price at the pump climb higher and higher. Today, the national average for a gallon of gas reached $4.30 a gallon, which is the highest in nearly four years. Years. But don't worry, because some Republicans have come up with a bold new solution to deal with the rising cost of gas. We're all experiencing revising history.
- [03:33]
Republican Supporter
People will remember. You go back two years ago, we were paying almost $6 a gallon for gasoline. Right now it's in the threes. Obviously, we've seen a jump with the Iran conflict.
- [03:46]
Graham Platner
When were we paying 6?
- [03:47]
Republican Supporter
Still 52 and a half years ago,
- [03:52]
Graham Platner
I don't think we were.
- [03:54]
Republican Supporter
Now we're over 30% below where we were just two years ago. Today we are 30% below where we were two years ago.
- [04:02]
Graham Platner
I think two years ago in April of 2024, we were at about 365. So we're actually above where we were then.
- [04:11]
Chris Hayes
That was the Republican Majority leader in the House, Steve Scalise, lying through his teeth making up historical facts about gas prices and getting called out on it BY One of CNBC's most Trump friendly hosts. Now, just to put a fine point on it, gas prices have actually never been anywhere near $6 a gallon. He says gas prices are 30% lower than they were two years ago. Wrong again there. They're nearly 18% higher today. But the thing is, good old Steve Scalise wasn't going rogue on the message of the day because here was Senator Tim Scott earlier today, too.
- [04:46]
Senator Tim Scott
The last 15, 16 months, President Trump has pulled a miracle. We finally have a healthy, strong economy going in the right direction. You can even feel in our environment how good things are getting. Gas prices continue to come down, which means that your groceries will come down a little bit as well.
- [05:05]
Chris Hayes
Did you notice all the data there was about crypto firms? It's kind of a funny part of this but again, that's Republican Senator Tim Scott saying Donald Trump has, in his words, pulled off a miracle. That is quite a talking point. He says gas prices continue to come down Again, all wrong. All wrong. Gas prices are up in every conceivable way. They're up more than $1.30 a gallon since the war began. They're up 27 cents per gallon since last week. They're up 7 cents per gallon since yesterday. And Tim Scott also says grocery prices are about to come down now, while experts are predicting the exact opposite is what they're predicting. Food prices are expected to actually rise as farmers absorb the higher cost fuel and fertilizer thanks to this disastrous war. And then there was Byron, Donald's
- [05:55]
Graham Platner
congressman. Do you think Donald Trump has delivered on his promise to lower prices? Yeah, he actually has.
- [06:00]
Senator Tim Scott
I know gas prices are a little bit higher because of what's happening in Iran, but across the country, a lot of prices actually have stabilized.
- [06:08]
Graham Platner
If it were a report card, what grade would you give him on the economy? Oh, he gets an A.
- [06:14]
Chris Hayes
An A. Wow, that's some serious inflation there. Now, that guy Byron Donalds is, of course, not just a member of Congress. He's also a candidate to be the governor of Florida. And he thinks Trump again deserves an A for his handling of the economy. And look, let's give him a little sliver of credit here. He did manage to acknowledge that gas prices are up, not down, which is more than you can say for some of his colleagues. But his claim that prices have stabilized is just plain wrong. We all know that. And today we learned that a key measure of inflation used by the Federal Reserve jumped to its highest level in three years. Prices are up, thanks in no small part to Trump's war and the rising cost of gas as businesses spend more money to get their goods to market. Now, nobody in Trump's party has a good answer for how Americans should deal with this precipitous rise in gas prices caused by Trump's war. But Trump himself doesn't seem all that concerned by it.
- [07:12]
Narrator/Announcer
The average price of a gallon of
- [07:13]
Chris Hayes
gas is now $4.30.
- [07:16]
Donald Trump
And you know what? And we're not going to have a nuclear weapon in the hands of Iran. The gas will go down as soon as the war is over. It'll drop like a rock. There's so much of it. It's all over the place, sitting all over the oceans of the world.
- [07:30]
Chris Hayes
Don't worry about gas prices, everyone. There's plenty of gas. It's sitting all over the oceans of the world. So I guess the next time you need to fill up the tank, just drive out to the middle of the ocean, get yourself some of that cheap, abundant gasoline. Everyone. It's all out there in the ocean. And the thing is, that was all Trump had to say today about one of the most pressing issues facing Americans every single day everywhere. But he had a lot to say about another issue. How do you like new floor?
- [08:01]
Donald Trump
I have a special black granite. Granite is the most powerful stone there is. Marble is much weaker than granite. I like marble more because marble can be more beautiful. We have the finest granite anyone's ever seen. It's, it's called flawless granite. And we replace it with granite, the highest grade granite. It's valued at. You know, they value stones in terms of that's valued at 1 million plus. Giving you a little lesson in stone, some people say he went off on a tangent, like I did with the pen, but that grant is valued at over a million years.
- [08:38]
Chris Hayes
We didn't even show you all of it. I mean, he went on about granite for five minutes straight. And to be clear, that wasn't even about his beloved ballroom renovation. He fixates on so much. This was a completely different White House renovation that has captured his attention and focus. Now, he did, of course, also spend a good portion of today ranting about his ballroom. You know, the dark money vanity project that skirted conflict of interest roles and would more than double the size of the existing White House complex. And guess what? People in this country are not into that ballroom. There's a new Washington Post Ipsos poll out today that finds that Americans opposed Trump's plans to build a new ballroom by a 2 to 1 margin. And most of the responses in that poll were gathered after the attack on the White House Correspondent's Dinner, which means Americans aren't buying Trump's argument that the ballroom is necessary for presidential security. Now, is it really any surprise that Trump's spending time focusing on his new Gilded palace while everyone in this country pays a whole lot more for gas? It's not exactly sitting well with the public. Of course not. Just like it isn't a surprise that voters are looking for something else come November. New polling out this week from Emerson College shows voters favor Democratic candidates for Congress over Republicans by a 10 point margin. And it's increasingly feeling like Democrats may have a chance to not just take back the House, but the Senate as well. A year ago, the idea of Democrats. This is what I was talking to Chris about, taking back the Senate. It was kind of a Pipe dream. But look at this. A whole lot has happened over the last year. In Texas, a recent YouGov poll shows Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico polling 8 points ahead of his potential opponent, Ken Paxton, 7 points ahead of his other potential opponent, John Cornyn. In Ohio, a state Trump won in all three of the last presidential elections by pretty good margins, a recent poll shows Democrat Sherrod Brown within the margin of error against Republican Senator John Husted. And in deep red, Alaska, another recent poll shows Democrat Mary Patola a full six points ahead of Republican Senator Dan Sullivan. If the Senate map is anywhere near that competitive this November, Republicans are in serious trouble. And it's very clear that the grassroots energy in this election is on the Democratic side. Today we got big news out of the state of Maine, where Maine Governor Janet Mills announced that she was dropping out of the Democratic primary for U.S. senate. She essentially conceded early def her primary opponent, Graham Platner, an oysterman who just a year ago had virtually no statewide name recognition, but who has galvanized Maine's electorate with a populist agenda focused on economic issues and taking on what he calls the billionaire economy. Now, viewers of this show will be familiar with Graham Platner. He's joined us here on this show during the campaign. And since then, Platner has caught fire in Maine, leading in poll after poll against both his Democratic opponents and Susan Collins. He's built strong support across the state despite a series of resurfaced controversies from his past, many of which I asked him about when they first came to light, including a tattoo he got during his time in the armed services with Nazi connotations which he only recently covered up, and a series of old offensive Reddit posts, all of which he's since apologized for. He's also weathered some more recent controversies, including a recent appearance on the podcast of an anti Semitic conspiracy theorist. But none of it was a secret. The Democratic voters of Maine knew about it all. People came in droves to his rallies, to his events. And today, Graham Plattner is focusing on the support he's earned from the people of Maine as he effectively declares victory against his biggest primary opponent.
- [12:13]
Graham Platner
We got some big news today. I want to thank everybody else, everyone who's volunteered, everyone who's donated, the artists who have made art for this, the musicians who have written songs, the teacher that has donated 20, 20 bucks, the fisherman who's had conversations down at the boat launch, the nurse who has gone out and knocked on doors. The win we get today, it comes because of you. It comes because of the work that you've done, that you've put into this. It comes from the fact that you guys believe in this kind of politics and that we're going to pull this thing off and we're going to make this happen and we're going to show the rest of the country that this is the politics of the future and that working people can organize and they can win.
- [13:04]
Chris Hayes
Joining me now for his first national interview since becoming the likely Democratic nominee for Maine Senate is Graham Platner. I just have to say, I mean, just a few months ago, just to put in just terms here, and I was just talking with Chris about this, you were essentially unknown to the public. I mean, I'm sure you knew your neighbors, you knew your friends, but not across the state of Maine. Since then, you've built a huge base of support. Well, weathering controversy after controversy and today, Maine's establishment backed popular two term governor Janet Mills conceded defeat to you in Maine's Democratic Senate primary. A primary that's not happening tomorrow. How did we get here?
- [13:45]
Graham Platner
I mean, honestly, I think that the people of Maine have just recognized that we need to do politics fundamentally differently. And our pitch is that politics is something that's supposed to be accessible to working folks. It's supposed to be representative of working people, and it's supposed to show up and have policies that are going to improve their lives materially. And to do that, we need to get people organized, we need to get people engaged. And that's really been the whole focus of this campaign. I mean, in many ways this is an organizing project first and that's what we've put our energy into. That's the message, that's how we've engaged with people. I mean, I go all over the state and we've held 63 town halls at this point. I do three to six public events a day. I talk to every Mainer I can come across and I'm accessible. People can ask me questions about anything and I'm happy to answer them. And it's that kind of politics that I think a lot of people in Maine and a lot of people across this country have in many ways been. Been waiting for. I know I certainly have, which is why, that's why we're running it this way.
- [14:51]
Chris Hayes
The general election essentially starts today, starts tomorrow. Maybe you gave yourself a moment today. The primary, even though the primary stuff course happening in June, you're running against an incumbent that no one has been able to unseat for decades. A lot of people have tried Republicans are ready to absolutely pummel you with attack ads on many of the same topics we've discussed before. You've been answering too, in your state. What's your plan here? To confront that, to address it, to defeat it?
- [15:23]
Graham Platner
Well, there's no question that the Republican Party knows that Susan Collins is weaker than she's ever been. They know that this is the kind of politics that's gonna win. And that's also why They've already committed $42 million to ads against us in this race. Just this week, There was a $2 million ad buy from a Republican super PAC that had been contributed to by 12 billionaires, including the CEO of Palantir and Blackstone and ironically, a private equity group that had shuttered some of the mills here in Maine. And Jay and Bucksport, they're coming after us with money, which is why we need money. I'll be entirely honest. If folks are watching at home, we need donations so we can fight back and frankly, win this thing. So if you have the ability, please go to grand for Sen. And contribute. Sign up to volunteer. We're going to beat Susan Collins in November. There's no question about it. But to do it, we're going to need all the help we can get. And any road to a Democratic Senate goes through the state of Maine. And we know the Republican Party's coming for us. We've known it since the beginning. And we're going to continue in many ways just doing what we're doing. Because as we build this thing, as we continue to go around Maine, as we continue to mobilize the people of Maine and organize them and show them that politics is theirs, that's how we're gonna cut through all of it. The end of the day, when you go out and talk to the people of Maine, answer their questions directly when you're accessible to them as a human being. When they see negative TV ads, everybody knows what those look like, everybody knows what they sound like. We've seen them, we've heard them. It's just not the kind of politics that Boehners really want anymore. They want something that's a lot more real. And that's exactly what we're doing.
- [17:08]
Chris Hayes
As they pummel you, you're gonna have to run in contrast to Susan Collins. What is your biggest argument against Susan Collins? Cuz you're gonna have to run negative ads against her. And I'm sure there are gonna be outside groups that do that. So what's gonna be the biggest attack you have against her?
- [17:25]
Graham Platner
Well, one, I mean, Susan Collins has been in power for 30 years. And in those 30 years, life has gotten harder for working Mainers. We have watched hospitals shutter. We have watched schools close. We have watched housing become unaffordable across the state. We're watching young people leave Maine because if they can find a house, they can never afford to buy it. The price of goods and services continue to go through the roof. I mean, you guys just had a segment about the price of gas. It's going up here, too. People are feeling it, and we're all feeling it as we look at a political system that has for a long time been representing the interests of those that donate the most money to establishment candidates. And you really can't find a better example of an establishment candidate that has used their position to improve their lot in life, often to the detriment of their constituents, than Susan Collins. You know, Susan Collins, she does not use her power, power that she often likes to brag about being the chair of Appropriations. That didn't slow down the fact that the Republicans passed the big, beautiful bill last spring that cut Medicaid and Medicare funding here in the state of Maine just so they could justify tax cuts for corporations. She also has historically been very supportive of sending America into more stupid foreign wars and this war in Iran, which nobody thinks is a good idea. We have had. She failed in five votes, five war powers resolutions to actually show up for the American people and end this thing and only just recently has changed her tune. The people of Maine want someone who's consistent. They want someone who clearly has politics, clearly believes in what they're doing. Susan Collins moves back and forth, depending on what she and her advisors think are the best ways that she can try to trick all of us into thinking she's a moderate. And in the age of Donald Trump, when you always show up to vote for Trump when it counts and are never there when we need you to show up for the American people. The people of Maine are sick and tired of that.
- [19:29]
Chris Hayes
You mentioned that she only recently changed her tune. She tweeted today that she was going to consider or be open to supporting the War Powers Resolution. She's voted against that several times in the past. How central? I mean, you yourself are a veteran. You served. How central to this race is your opposition to the war, the contrast with her? And do you think she's trying to close that? And if so, what are you gonna do about it?
- [19:53]
Graham Platner
I mean, to me, this is not like a political matter per se. This is a personal matter. Susan Collins. And frankly, Many other people like her sent me to fight in Iraq. It was a deeply stupid war that, looking back on, I think we can all agree was a waste of everyone's time. I had to take part in an immense amount of violence because establishment politicians like her do not care about the actual cost of war. They simply see war as a game. They see it as something that they get to do to make themselves feel tough. We need to end that kind of politics. We need to end that kind of relationship with war in our political system. She is, I think, very much trying to change her tune. But at this point, I mean, she's been consistent about this stuff for years. She's not going to. We're going to keep pointing out that every chance that she's had, she has not actually showed up to try to rein in a rogue executive as it starts illegal foreign wars that the American people have to bear the brunt of, whether it's by sending our sons and daughters off to fight and die or because it's destroying the economy and we are now watching the price of everything go through the roof. And that's hers. She owns that. She and the establishment politicians in the Republican Party that have kept this stuff going, that have not been able to reign in the Trump administration. That is their responsibility. This is the world that they have built. And at this point, any attempt for her to change messaging on it, it's gonna fall flat because her actual behavior just recently shows that this is not a thing she truly cares about.
- [21:25]
Chris Hayes
Graham Platner, please stay with me for just a few more minutes. You know how this goes. We gotta take a quick break here, and I want to ask you about Democratic leadership. This is not something you've held back on. You weren't the national party's pick. You made clear who you wouldn't support for leader. Chuck Schumer handpicked Janet Mills, and today he quickly released a statement endorsing you. And I'm just going to ask you if you've heard from Chuck Schumer today and more about that when we come back.
- [21:52]
Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms. But progress isn't guaranteed. Today, those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs, with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 511-511-Text MSNOW to 511-51-511 and keep state and church separate. Text Fees may apply.
- [22:22]
Angie Hicks
Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles, in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh, Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace.
- [22:40]
Graham Platner
Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.
- [22:43]
Angie Hicks
Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.
- [22:44]
Graham Platner
Connecting homeowners with skilled Pros for over 30 years, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com
- [22:54]
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- [23:33]
Chris Hayes
We are back with U.S. senate candidate Graham Platner. So before the break, I was saying, you know, as you know, you weren't the national party's pick for people out there. He wasn't the national party's pick. Chuck Schumer recruited Janet Mills to run for this race. He quickly endorsed you today. Have you spoken to him today? And what's that relationship like right now?
- [23:56]
Graham Platner
Yes. No, we had a brief conversation this evening, and I'll just say that nothing brings people together like wanting to beat Susan Collins. So that's where we are.
- [24:08]
Chris Hayes
But you're still not gonna support him for leader, are you? Or have you changed your mind on that?
- [24:14]
Graham Platner
No, I mean, my criticisms of leadership, my criticisms of the party, they remain. I will say I think that those criticisms, those pale, I think, from their perspective, from the party leadership's perspective, in comparison to the need to take down Collins, because there is no Democratic majority in the Senate without getting rid of Collins. And I think that for everybody right now is the priority. Everything else, I guess we can hash that out later on. But at this point, the fight is against Collins and we're all going to align and work together to that goal. But my criticisms of leadership absolutely remain the same.
- [24:52]
Chris Hayes
Trump is obviously a factor in every race in the country. I mean, he's the sitting president. He's hugely unpopular. He started this hugely. Not just unpopular, but to your point, it's not even a political issue. Kind of immoral, misguided, not guided at all. War in Iran. How much of Trump is a factor in this general election against Susan Collins for you and Maine?
- [25:16]
Graham Platner
You know, it's funny, you know, we all understand that Donald Trump is uniquely awful, that Donald Trump really is kind of the avatar of the worst elements of our politics and our society. But I think a lot of people also understand that Trump is the symptom of a much deeper rot. I mean, Trump is the outcome of a system that for a long time now has been leaving working people, average, everyday Americans feeling like their politics does not represent them at all. Like, I'll be up front. I have a lot of friends who voted for Donald Trump. I live in rural Maine. I work on the water. I got friends who voted for Trump three times. And I could tell you they voted for a change candidate. They wanted this whole thing to look different. They felt like they'd been left behind. And while, of course, Trump was not going to be the answer to that, that frustration remains. Because right wing populism, Donald Trump's presidency, it hasn't fixed any of those problems that people had. In fact, it's made them worse. Prices have gone up. We are watching, I mean, at this point, just outright corruption in our political system. That's a thing that Americans see. They see it and they understand it for what it is. And we are going to continue to show people that it isn't just about beating Trump. Although, of course it is. It really is about building a political system that does not result in Donald Trump in the first place. It's building a political system that is accessible to people and that people can see themselves represented in. Because I'll be honest, I mean, as someone that was kind of living a very normal life until about a year ago, this political system as we have it, the average person does not see themselves reflected. We don't see our will. We don't see our material needs reflected in the halls of power. And that's really what we're engaged in. So when it comes to Collins, her inability, or let me rephrase, her attempt to thread this needle, where she is pro Donald Trump enough to try to appease his loyalists, but also anti Donald Trump enough to try to trick everybody else into supporting her, that doesn't work now. That doesn't work in this era. And I think she's gonna run up to the finite end of that kind of politics. And we're going to very much continue pointing out that she doesn't stand up to Donald Trump. She doesn't reign in his power. And his abuse of that power is making things material worse, materially worse, day after day for the average American.
- [27:45]
Chris Hayes
Very concerned. Doesn't fly anymore. I don't think they're clutching their pearls and very concerned. Let me ask you about some other aspect of this. And you alluded to this. I mean, you ran your campaign in part by running against Washington. This is a very effective thing for people to do out there. Right now, Washington is not exactly popular. Youth is also very popular. But you ran against Washington. Its inadequacies and the failure of Democrats, too, to use power and think boldly enough. So if you're elected to the Senate, it's possible, I started the show talking about this, that you could be in the majority. How do you think power should be wielded if Democrats are given that for people who are just getting to know you, trying to figure you out out there?
- [28:23]
Graham Platner
Well, first and foremost, I think we need to understand that the Democratic Party needs to form a theory of power. I don't think it's had one for a long time. It's had a theory of management the Republican Party has, which is one of the reasons why we find ourselves in these straits. With a theory of power, you have to define the end state. What is the goal? What do you want to use your power in the service of? And then how are you going to craft the policies to get there? And more importantly, build the political will and the political power to make those policies a reality, Something we're going to have to do. If we're in the majority, we need to use the power. We get to shut this White House down. We do that. I think one of the best ways is through committee hearings and investigations. I want the Trump administration not to function because everyone in the White House is being hauled under subpoena in front of a Senate committee day after day after day. Not just because, one, we have so many crimes to investigate at this point, we can probably be doing this for the next 30 years. But two, because it's a lever of power, using subpoena power, bringing people in for investigations. That keeps them busy and that doesn't allow them to go start another stupid war that doesn't allow them to continue to give billionaires more and more and more of our economy. And so I think it's very important that, that if we are in the majority, we're gonna wield the power that we have to rein this thing in. I also think, and I'll just be up front I don't believe a single U.S. democratic senator should vote for a nominee out of the Trump administration moving forward. I think we need to use all of the power we have around funding and the power of the purse to stop paying for these kinds of stupid wars, stop paying for agencies like ice, stop paying for the things that the Trump administration is doing that are materially hurting our democracy and hurting working. But we need to get people into office who have a theory of power and who understand that the purpose of power isn't just to have it, it's to use it, it's to wield it and in the service of a long term goal. And I mean, honestly, that's not what we've been seeing for quite some time.
- [30:32]
Chris Hayes
Graham Plattner, so many more questions but I gotta get to other guests. Thank you. Actually on cue, my next guest is Jack Smith's was Jack Smith's deputy who's running for Congress. So when we talk about investigations, it's a natural lead in. Thank you for joining me to perfect lead.
- [30:48]
Graham Platner
No, thank you very much, Jen. I really appreciate it.
- [30:51]
Chris Hayes
Of course, if you are wondering what was happening behind the scenes before Trump's lackeys in the Justice Department decided to indict James Comey over some seashells, boy have I got a story for you. As I just mentioned, my next guest is JP Cooney who was the top deputy to Special counsel Jack Smith. He was fired by Donald Trump and I'm going to ask him all about it when we come back.
- [31:17]
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- [31:32]
Narrator/Announcer
America is an idea. For 250 years, that idea has helped expand our rights and our freedoms. But progress isn't guaranteed. Today, those founding principles are being challenged by efforts to mix religion and government. The Freedom From Religion foundation is working to protect the Constitution and keep power where it belongs with we the people. Visit FFRF US MSNOW or text MSNOW to 511-511-Text MSNOW to 511-51-511 and keep state and church separate. Text fees may apply.
- [32:02]
Angie Hicks (co-founder of Angie)
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- [32:39]
Chris Hayes
Today, msnow reported that the case against James Comey for posting a picture of seashells in the shape of 8647 had been put on the back burner under former Attorney General Pam Bondi. But then, after Bondi was fired and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was put in an acting role, the ever ambitious Blanche gave new life to the investigation. And Blanche's aides instructed the Acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of North Carolina to seek a grand jury indictment against Comey. Now, in a statement to Ms. Now, a Justice Department official denied that Bondi had delayed or slow walked the Comey case, saying the investigation had begun a year ago. And that year long duration is actually in line with what both Blanche and FBI Director Patel said earlier this week. This was an investigation that remains ongoing, that's been ongoing for about a year.
- [33:27]
JP Cooney
This has been a case that's been investigated over the past nine, 10, 11 months.
- [33:33]
Chris Hayes
Look, I've never claimed to be a lawyer. I'm not one. I have one sitting on the set with me here in a moment. But I mean, it feels like quite a public admission that it takes Trump's Justice Department 9, 10, 11 months to investigate one Instagram post. That's what we know about, almost one year to bring charges in what they allege is a very real and serious threat against the President of the United States. I mean, the most recent charges against Comey have been widely criticized and condemned even by some of Trump's most ardent on air supporters. And the case only looks more ridiculous by the day. Just yesterday, Todd Blanche was asked if the DOJ would prosecute everyone who posted the same message as Comey. He answered, every case is different. Okay. Joining me now is JP Cooney, former federal prosecutor and principal deputy to former DOJ special counsel Jack Smith. He's also running as a Democrat for a congressional House seat in Virginia. A newly drawn map. Okay, let me start by asking you just about this. I mean, first of all, one way Blanche seems to try to legitimize this case is by pointing to how long the investigation has been going on. It seems to me, again, not a lawyer. Like that's quite an admission, right? A year of investigating what we know is an instagram post and what they're saying is a real threat against the President's life. What do you make of that? And this whole thing, I make of
- [34:50]
JP Cooney
this to be a vindictive and a selective prosecution. And it's because of exactly what Todd Blanch said today. The only thing that has changed over the course of the last year since this post was put up is that Todd Blanche is now auditioning for the job of Attorney General of the United States. A matter like this does not take a year to investigate. That's either incompetence or it's what it is, an effort to intimidate a perceived political enemy.
- [35:16]
Chris Hayes
It seems like people throw out there this will just get thrown out. All of these efforts will just get thrown out. Is that a safe assumption? In this case, it is.
- [35:24]
JP Cooney
This case will be thrown out because it is not supported by either fact or law. First, it's vindictive. And what that means is under the law, a prosecution cannot be undertaken to punish someone for exercising a right. Jim Comey exercised his First Amendment right to criticize the President. It's selective. That means it wouldn't be prosecuted in other cases. Todd Blanche admitted that yesterday when he said that we're not gonna prosecute all these cases. They're prosecuting it because it's Jim Comey, and it's not a threat under the law, because no reasonable person would interpret it that way. And Jim Comey did not intend it as a threat. And the indictment does not even allege that he did.
- [36:04]
Chris Hayes
You've been traveling around, I mean, you've been campaigning now for a bit. People, I'm sure, ask you, what do you make of what's happening. They ask you, I'm sure, how to rebuild this. That wouldn't entirely, totally be your job as a member of Congress, although there are a lot of people who want would love your expertise on subpoenas and investigations and all those things. What do you tell them when you're talking to potential constituents?
- [36:25]
JP Cooney
I tell them what they already can see with their own two eyes. The conduct of this Department of Justice debases its history, its purpose, and it undermines the security of the United States. I mean, look, I tell my children, Jen, that one thing that you have is your credibility in what you do. This department, in just a few short months, eroded it completely. It no longer has any. When it walks before courts, when it walks before juries. We cannot trust what this department says to us. And that is an incredible threat to both public safety and to our constitutional order.
- [37:04]
Chris Hayes
So how does it rebuild.
- [37:07]
JP Cooney
It rebuilds by people of good faith standing up to this president, exposing his corruption and getting into the halls of Congress. Democrats winning back the White House and working day by day, brick by brick to rebuild the Department of Justice.
- [37:23]
Chris Hayes
JP Cooney, thank you for being here.
- [37:25]
JP Cooney
Thank you.
- [37:26]
Chris Hayes
Coming up, after that hugely consequential Supreme Court ruling yesterday, one Republican led state is literally suspending elections where votes are already happening to redraw their maps. And another is working closely with Donald Trump to redraw theirs. Tennessee State Representative Just Justin J. Pierson is at the center of one of those fights and he joins me next. A ruling from the Supreme Court yesterday essentially gutted what's left of the landmark Voting Rights act. And Republicans got right to work in a number of states. Today. Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry issued an executive order suspending their upcoming House primary, which was set to begin on Saturday. He suspended an election and he did it so he could buy more time for the Republican controlled legislature to pass new maps and give their party a leg up come November. Now, earlier tonight, a new lawsuit was filed challenging Louisiana's decision, arguing that a number of voters have already cast absentee ballots for this upcoming election. And then there's Tennessee, where today Donald Trump claimed the governor there, Bill Lee, told him that he would work hard to, quote, give us one extra seat. Well, there's a telling it all. It's unclear if and when Tennessee Republicans will take direct action. But this can't comes after Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn, who's running to be Tennessee's next governor, said she would do everything she can to turn that state 100% red. Now, if that happens, Tennessee's 9th district, the lone seat Democrats occupy that includes Memphis and has historically been protected by the Voting Rights Act. Well, that district would be erased. District 9 is currently represented at the state level by Justin J. Pierson, who you may recognize as one of the Tennessee Three. Pearson was temporarily expelled back in 2023 after protesting for gun gun rights for stronger gun legislation. And he is now running for the US Congress in the very same district. And Tennessee State Representative Justin J. Pierson joins me now. It's great to see you. I have so many questions for you about your reaction to yesterday and what this all means. But let me start with this. Earlier today you said that Trump calling on Governor Lee to erase District 9 was an attempt to silence voices of a majority black district. Exactly what it is. You also issued your own call to action. What are you calling for in order to push back against this?
- [39:51]
Justin J. Pearson
Yeah, that is exactly what is happening. It is the silence of a majority black district, the only Democratic district in our state. And the reality is this initiative by this administration and other Republicans across the south in particular, would lead to the end result. Having millions of people disenfranchised, and particularly for black people, will lead to less black representation than we've seen in decades. It'll be very similar to what happened post Reconstruction with the retribution that happened that led to many black elected officials no longer being in positions of power. So our call to action is simple. We have a petition that we're asking people to sign to the governor, to the House, and to my Senate colleagues, asking for them not to take away District 9's representation. We would do whatever we can to defend District 9 and defend our representation in the US Congress and also in the State House.
- [40:37]
Chris Hayes
If Republicans answer Trump's call, and Lord, Marsha Blackburn sounds like she wants to do that very much, this would be the second time in four years that Tennessee's congressional map is changed to help Republicans. I know you're in a very red state right now, but have you spoken with your Republican colleagues in the legislature? Do you know if there's a willingness to do that, or are there some who have concern?
- [41:01]
Justin J. Pearson
I mean, there are some who have concerns. There are some who do not. But the reason I'm running for Congress is because I have a community organizing background. I serve as a state representative. And so we're working right now with our partners here locally and folks nationally, to understand what are our options to make sure that we defend our democracy, that we protect black folks vote, and our right and ability to choose representatives who identify with our values, our culture, and who want to see a representation who looks like them. And we're not going to allow Marsha Blackburn's tweets and the maps that they're putting out to stop us from doing the advocacy work and the organizing work that we need to. To fight for our country and to fight for our place within this republic.
- [41:37]
Chris Hayes
The primary is currently scheduled for August. You are well aware of that. And just for people at home, do they have time? You're running an operation. You've lost not a moment here against it. But they have time to push this through, right? Right.
- [41:52]
Justin J. Pearson
I mean, they can hold a special session. They could vote for these changes, and it would be disastrous and destructive to our democracy and our electoral process, because qualifying petitions have already happened. And so the chaos that would be caused by this, like it is in Louisiana, would be unlike anything we've ever seen.
- [42:08]
Chris Hayes
Before.
- [42:08]
Justin J. Pearson
But we also know that that isn't entirely uncommon. We've seen Republicans willing to go to the ends of the earth to take away our rights to vote. But on the Edmund Pettish bridge, folks fought and bled for it. Medgar Evers lost his life for it. And we are not going to allow the sacrifices of our ancestors to go in vain. We're going to organize, advocate. And if we have to march from Memphis to Nashville as they march from Selma to Montgomery, that's what we're gonna do. And that's why I'm asking people in our campaign to defend District 9. This is about our democracy.
- [42:40]
Chris Hayes
I believe you that you would do that march and that you're spending every moment of every waking day trying to organize around this. We've talked so many times about that. Let me ask you about the primary because you're currently primaring your old boss, Steve Cohen. You used to work for him, of course. That's what makes him your boss. You've had, and I'm sure this doesn't. That doesn't surprise you. Some people who've criticized you, who've said, like State Senator London Lamar, who said that Cohen is experienced and effective and this isn't the time to do this. What do you make of that? What's your argument for why you're the better choice to represent the district in Congress?
- [43:15]
Justin J. Pearson
Well, look, let's be clear. I interned in the congressman's office as a high school and as a college student. And anyone who's interned with the congressperson knows you see them twice, once when they're walking through the hall, and the second time they're taking. Taking your picture saying, thanks so much for your service. So he wasn't my boss. I didn't work that closely with him. My mentors were Dr. Barbara Ward Cooper and another gentleman who just passed away, G. A. Hardaway, who taught me that you have to be proximate. I've had 12 town halls since August. My opponent hasn't had any. I've had 218 events that I've attended in our community, staying proximate to the issues that people want to address. People want to deal with the affordability crisis. They want access to medical care, which is what, why I'm supporting Medicare for All. We have hundreds of millions of dollars that are missing for our veterans that I'm going to do everything that I can to get for them. And in this moment in time, we can't keep going with the way that things were. We have to have new energy. We have to have new vision. We have to have a new direction for our party and for our country.
- [44:08]
Chris Hayes
State Representative Justin J. Pierson, thank you as always for joining me tonight.
- [44:12]
Justin J. Pearson
Thank you. So good to see you.
- [44:14]
Chris Hayes
You too. We have to take a quick break, but Lawrence of Senator Chris Van Hollen standing by, lots to talk to him about. We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [44:34]
Narrator/Announcer
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