Dan Goldman (10:06)

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head, Jen. And that recitation is very important and very accurate, not only just to outline the so obvious, vindictive and selective prosecution. That direct message, which was a direction to Pam Bondi to charge his political enemies very clearly wasn't intended to be out in the open, but because it is. We now have absolute evidence that Donald Trump is targeting his enemies. The thing that just strikes me about this, and we've now seen it with Director Comey, is this is the bedrock foundation of democracy. When the United States goes around the world to promote democracy, to promote global stability and economic development and prosperity, it all centers first and foremost on not corruptly prosecuting enemies and adversaries in other countries. And Donald Trump has not only done it once, he is now doing it again over the objection of the people who actually know the case. And that is truly remarkable. And it's a very, very disconcer and sad day for those of us who have worked at the Department of Justice and who, while working there, cared so much about the independence and that was so essential to the work that we did, the work that the FBI does and the work that our criminal justice system does. Because if our criminal justice system is politicized, then we have no democratic foundation to stand on.

Jen Psaki (11:55)

And we are there. We are veryit is being politicized. And people in the Justice Department are all experiencing that. We've seen that with mass resignations and firings. Let me ask you, this is a part of a pattern as you've just outlined and I discussed as well. And we saw yesterday how Comey's lawyers responded. I mean, after his defense team intends, they said they intend to file two motions to dismiss the case before it goes to trial. One is for vindictive prosecution. The other is an argument that Lindsey Halligan was unlawful, lawfully appointed. And legal experts, of course, are saying that's because nobody else in the office put their names on the indictment. I mean, she did these by herself. What do you think? Do you think we've seen a model from Trump? Do you think that's a model for Letitia James lawyers in terms of how she could respond or how they could respond in the coming weeks?

Dan Goldman (12:48)

Oh, absolutely. They will throw the book at doj. And you have in black and white the President of the United States directing the Attorney General to indict his political adversaries if there isn't a case of if there is ever a case, I should say of vindictive or selective or political prosecution. I can't imagine one that would be better than this unless you might have him on videotape doing it. But I guess in the Trump world, a videotape of a $50,000 cash bribe for someone who's in his administration is reason to close a case. But a bogus and very selective prosecution is a reason to go forward with the case. The thing that really jumped out to me about Comey's arraignment yesterday was not the motions, which we expected, not him saying not guilty, which is pretty standard.

Jen Psaki (13:44)

We knew.

Dan Goldman (13:45)

It's the fact that they could not find a single prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia who would actually handle this case. They had to bring in two people from the North Carolina office because no one from the Eastern District of Virginia would put his or her name on that case. And I will say tonight, and I urge all of every single Assistant United States Attorney across this country, you have to stand up for your oath of office. You have to stand up for the Constitution. It is daunting. You may get fired, but I promise you the legal profession will reward you for doing the right thing. And doing the right thing is why you took that job, why you took that oath. And you cannot, cannot concede to that in this attack on our Department of Justice and our rule of law and.

Jen Psaki (14:43)

Expect they all will continue to be tested. Trump himself has suggested that. Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you so much for joining us. We have to sneak in a very quick 90 second break, but Preet Bharara is standing by here in studio. He's the former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. He'll join me with his very first reaction to the indictment of Letitia James. When we come Mazda.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (15:06)

Once you discover the Mazda CX5 Mazda, it doesn't take long to get it. With standard all wheel drive, a premium interior and advanced safety features, it's an SUV that gives you more at every turn. It will have you saying Mazda. The Mazda CX5. It's made to move you.

Jen Psaki (15:24)

Every Mazda SUV offers you an elevated.

Jeh Johnson (15:27)

Driving experience and refined performance.

Preet Bharara (15:30)

Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (15:35)

If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zynn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zynn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus Zynn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zyn. Check out zyn.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. Warning this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (16:04)

Ondeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps on Deck's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All lo an amount subject to lender approval.

Jen Psaki (16:41)

Last night, Pre. Bharara said something that I have been thinking about ever since. It has to do with that message that Trump posted on Truth Social last month, directing his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to prosecute a list of his perceived political enemies. Of course, we now know that this was supposed to be a private message, which we could have all. Yes, but now we know that not a public post disseminated to his 10 million-plus social media followers. And according to Preet, Trump's posting could be a problem for the government's case against James Comey, which makes me think I'm not a lawyer. But as we are following the breaking news of one of Trump's other political enemies, Tish James, being indicted today, whether Trump's own words and his inability to use a phone correctly, because we all know There are other DMs out there, whether that might affect whether the case against Tish James holds up in a court of law. Joining us now is Preet Bharara, former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. Thank you. I get a twofer. It's two nights in a row I was thinking about and I was talking with my team about what you said last night, and there's just this question of these direct messages. So let me just start by asking you for the Comey case. His lawyers want those to see if There are other DMs, presumably. How do they get those? What's the legal process?

Preet Bharara (17:51)

Well, they're gonna file a motion saying you should dismiss the indictment based on selective and vindictive prosecution. And in furtherance of that, if the judge doesn't decide just on the evidence that's already out there, and there's plenty of it, that we need to have a little bit more inquiry and investigation like a different judge has done in the Abrego Garcia case, he might Say, we'll have a period of discovery. You get to ask for documents and information and communications. Then we'll have a hearing about it. And in the process of the judge deciding that there should be discovery, which I think at a minimum would be granted based on what we know of the facts of the case and the procedure and the posture of the case, that's how you get it.

Jen Psaki (18:31)

And so it could be other DMs, any DMs, between Pam Bondi and Trump, they might ask for it if they're preserved.

Preet Bharara (18:37)

And I think, as I said last night, yeah, you know, there may be many of those, and maybe they were set to disappear. Maybe someone has deleted them. I think smart lawyers will have asked for those things to be preserved. So we'll see how that plays out. And I think, as I also said last night, if they have not been preserved, the judge can reach an adverse inference about what was happening there. But look, we do have the one errant dm, and that presents a lot. And the other interesting thing about how these cases are unfolding, usually it's the case that you bring one case against somebody, another case against somebody else, and if they're related in some way, you might think, well, that's showing that the cases are all stronger. Each successive case that Donald Trump's Justice Department brings along these lines makes it more likely that the prior case will be dismissed.

Jen Psaki (19:27)

Why is that?

Preet Bharara (19:27)

Because they're all following a pattern of vindictive prosecution. Right. So to be one person who has been targeted in a dm, who's an enemy of the President of the United States, alongside a flimsy case, that's one thing for him then to do it a second time and a third time and a fourth time actually reinforces and strengthens the argument, I think, of vindictive prosecution and selective prosecution with respect to all of them as this unfolds.

Jen Psaki (19:54)

So the pattern. So if you're Tish James, lawyer, you want to ask, we don't know of a dm, but there could be a DM who knows out there.

Preet Bharara (20:01)

You want to ask for everything.

Jen Psaki (20:02)

You want to ask for everything.

Preet Bharara (20:03)

You want to ask for all the communications that have taken place, you want to ask for all the memos that have been written. You want to ask for any, you know, meeting summaries, you know, anything at all that bears on the question, why was this person prosecuted?

Jen Psaki (20:18)

And for a lot. I mean, White Houses assert executive privilege, right, pretty liberally over presidential communications. We've never been in this world before where Presidents have been DMing things to Cabinet members or the Attorney general. Is there different laws that apply to that? Can they still try to assert the same executive privilege or.

Preet Bharara (20:37)

They can assert it, they can assert it. But I think a right minded judge would find it hard to countenance the idea that you can do an end run around the proper procedures of justice. You can weaponize the justice system, you can weaponize your department and then cloak all of that, shield all of that under executive privilege. I think it will be a fight. I think you might have to go back and forth for a little bit. But I think ultimately that claim fails if you can show as the President has given the world and the lawyers an opportunity to see that there's actually something nefarious going. What normally happens is, you know, lawyer bringing a vindictive prosecution claim doesn't have a lot to go on. There's conjecture, there's speculation and they're kind of throwing a Hail Mary pass. This is not, this is not a Hail Mary pass. This is like a very easy pass a couple of yards away. Because the President has said again and again and again and again, forget about the stuff that we don't know about, forget about the stuff that might be hidden, the stuff that might have been deleted. He has said again and again and again, these are the people that he wants to go after. He ran in a campaign of retribution and now he's exacting that retribution, just like he said. That's pretty powerful stuff. Even if you don't have anything further.

Jen Psaki (21:50)

As you're saying, the pattern makes it weak, makes the case is weaker. Which is interesting because he's made clear there's gonna be more like it doesn't end here with the two of them. How do you think this end?

Preet Bharara (22:01)

Well, you know, so speaking not as a lawyer for a moment, speaking as a citizen of the country and seeing how many people are sort of putting up with this, particularly on the Republican side, I wonder if people ask themselves the question what the answer is, do people really think it ends at the end of, you know, the list that Trump has put out so far. You know, what do you think happens when Trump runs down to Democrats, we still have three years and change of this administration. If we normalize this kind of conduct, this kind of behavior and this kind of impunity, when he's done with that list, he's going to find other people, he's going to find Republicans, he's going to find independents, he's going to find, you know, people in industry, he's going to find private citizens who cross him or upset him or stand in the way of something that he wants to accomplish and they can be thrown into prison. Also if he just fires the person who says there's no basis to go forward and find some other former personal lawyer of his who has no business being in the grand jury, who has no business bringing a prosecution because they have no experience in it, this is going to happen to lots and lots of other people who are sitting on the sidelines now. And as the old phrase goes, are they going to say, I didn't stand up because I wasn't a Democrat? You should stand up because you're an.

Jen Psaki (23:14)

American and also because you may be targeted, including people who work for him. We've seen that pattern. Pre Bharara, thank you for being here as always two nights in a row. I really appreciate it.

Preet Bharara (23:23)

Good to see you tomorrow.

Jen Psaki (23:24)

See you tomorrow. We'll be we'll have you back tomorrow on a Friday night. We're going to take a quick break. We knew after that we're going to talk about how we knew Trump would go after his perceived enemies. As we've been talking about. What we didn't know is how they would respond. Some of them we could have predicted, but we'll talk about that. Jeh Johnson is also going to be here. He's the former DHS secretary. He's also a former prosecutor here in New York. And he joins me to talk about the pushback to this revenge tour. When we come back.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (23:54)

Mazda. Once you discover the Mazda CX5 Mazda, it doesn't take long to get it. With standard all wheel drive, a premium interior and advanced safety features, it's an SUV that gives you more at every turn. It will have you saying Mazda. The Mazda CX5. It's made to move you.

Jen Psaki (24:12)

Every Mazda SUV offers you an elevated.

Jeh Johnson (24:15)

Driving experience and refined performance.

Preet Bharara (24:18)

Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (24:23)

If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zynn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zynn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus Zynn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zyn. Check out zyn.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (24:52)

Cash flow Crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today@ondeck.com funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued I Ondeck. Ondeck or Celtic bank on Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans in amount subject to lender approval.

Jen Psaki (25:27)

The indictment today of New York Attorney General Letitia James is only the latest example of Donald Trump brazenly using the Department of Justice to go after his perceived enemies. But his targets are refusing to be intimidated. I mean, even the people Trump is going after the hardest are making it very clear that they are not backing down, including the two who are now facing federal criminal charges. We were going to play a video. We may have it in a moment. All right, we're going to play it. Go ahead. Today.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (26:00)

I'm not fearful. I'm fearless. And as my faith teaches me, no.

Jen Psaki (26:08)

Weapon formed against me shall prosper.

Jeh Johnson (26:10)

I'm not afraid.

Jen Psaki (26:12)

My heart is broken for the Department.

Jeh Johnson (26:14)

Of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system and I'm innocent. So let's have a trial.

Jen Psaki (26:23)

Okay. I'm happy we were able to play that because seeing Tish James respond, who was just indicted today like that, forcefully, as Comey did, is pretty important. And there are those who are just who haven't been indicted but are still just on Trump's radar. Listen to the people who might be next, who he's gone after a lot publicly.

Ruben Gallego (26:42)

Those of us on the president's enemies.

Jen Psaki (26:45)

List, and it is a long and.

Preet Bharara (26:47)

Growing list, will not be intimidated.

Ruben Gallego (26:49)

We will not be deterred.

Jen Psaki (26:51)

We will do our jobs.

Preet Bharara (26:52)

We will stand up to this president.

Jen Psaki (26:54)

Look, he's a coward. He says a lot of things to the camera.

Preet Bharara (26:56)

He likes to pretend to be a tough guy.

Jen Psaki (26:59)

Come and get me. Come and get me. I am not fearful. Let's have a trial. We will not be deterred. Come and get me. If I summarize it, if you give the bully your lunch money, he just comes back and he's hungry for more. They're not doing that. Fighting words for extraordinary times from all of them. Joining me now is the perfect person to talk to about this moment and how all of these pieces fit together. Jeh Johnson is a former federal prosecutor as well as the former tabloid, the Pentagon, and of course, the former Secretary of Homeland Security. You probably have a 20 page resume, I assume just by the way, congratulations.

Jeh Johnson (27:35)

On having this succession of former federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York.

Jen Psaki (27:40)

Well, I'm happy to be in New York and have all of you here. If anyone has legal problems in the building, we have quite a force. I just played the responses on purpose from a sitting governor, a sitting senator, a sitting ag, a former FBI director, all making it very clear they are ready to fight back. And I played them because this indictment of Letitia James is not isolated. It's happening where there are so many other examples of Trump overstepping, of Trump using authoritarian powers or efforts to go after people in this country. How do you sit with this moment? How do you make sense, not make sense of it, but how do you see this moment we're in?

Jeh Johnson (28:20)

Jen, you will remember from your time in government that our State Department annually does a country by country report on the human rights records of various other nations, judging, for example, whether or not they engage in politically motivated criminal prosecutions of perceived political enemies, whether their military engages in extrajudicial killing, whether you use your executive branch for all sorts of things that are above the law. We'd have to give ourselves an F in this category these days. The other thing that strikes me about today's news and the indictment of Jim Comey, my former colleague, is that there's going to be a Jimmy Kimmel effect to this. You know, he was suspended on the air and he came back and his ratings doubled and tripled. Tis James, I mean, the case she won against Trump was carved out on appeal. The verdict was greatly reduced. Jim Comey was living in relative obscurity. And now they're back on the front pages. And they're both, although I didn't agree with everything Jim Comey did as FBI director, they're both fairly telegenic, articulate people who are now going to be on the front pages. I'm sure Jim is looking forward to a trial if the case is not thrown out pretrial. And I'm sure Tis James is looking to forward, forward to a trial and have an opportunity to tell her story. The other thing that occurs to me is to the extent there's some mastermind controlling the timing of all of this coming out of the Trump administration, somebody managed to snatch scandal out of the jaws of victory. This should have been a good news day for President Donald Trump because of what he did to lean on the prime minister of Israel and the other parties to the war in Gaza to, to get them to settle. This should have been a good news day for him. Yet the front page tomorrow is going to be how he is going after yet another perceived political enemy.

Jen Psaki (30:30)

He sees that as good news. I mean, that tells you something about him and how he sees things. To your point, which I think is such an interesting one that James Comey and Letitia James are now gonna be propelled back into the headlines. He said he's gonna go after Fani Willis. He said he's gonna go, obviously Adam Schiff, JB Pritzker, people who are not afraid of speaking back and calling it all back. What else do you think? What are the other consequences that there could be for people who are implementing this on his behalf? I'm raising this because my colleague Chris Hayes talked to Leader Jeffries and he basically said when Democrats are back in power, they're gonna be we're gonna look at people who don't have the immunity of the department that has been granted by the Supreme Court. Some of these people are moving forward in ways that don't feel lawful. But what could the consequences consequences be?

Jeh Johnson (31:19)

I hope the consequences are not a downward spiral into politically motivated revenge, revengeful prosecutions. We have to find a way to rise above this. And three and a half years is a long time. I truly hope that we're living through an unfortunate dark period right now. And once there's a new president, a new administration, a new government, a new era in our politics, we can find a way to return to what I think is normalcy, where you have a federal Department of Justice that brings cases because there has been a Violation of Title 18 of the United States Code without regard to the politics, without regard to the political affiliations of those who are indicted. We have to find a way to rise above that. This has been up to now one of the strengths of this nation and the culture and the free society we live in. We don't go after political enemies with the use of the criminal machinery of the Department of Justice. That's exactly what this president is doing right now. The pre trial motions, Exhibit A will be his own statements, his own social media statements talking about going delving into discovery, executive privilege, Exhibit A island what comes out of Donald Trump's own mouth and his own head.

Jen Psaki (32:48)

That's a big part of it. He's doing this to himself. I hope you're right and I am an optimistic person, too. We have a long way to go here. And as Preet Bharara just said, this list can just keep building of people who are on his enemies list. So we're gonna have to see sooner.

Jeh Johnson (33:03)

Or later Somebody in the Department of Justice is gonna say, enough.

Jen Psaki (33:06)

I hope so. I hope so. Jay Johnson, it's great to see you. Thank you for being here. Okay, coming up, while Donald Trump is focused on revenge prosecutions, as we've been talking about and trying to explain throughout the course of the show, his Republican lackeys back in D.C. continue to bumble their way through a government shutdown. Mike Johnson fielded some calls about the shutdown today on C Span, which you really have to see to believe. And I will show you plenty of that. And Marjorie Taylor Greene continued to attack Republican leadership during her own TV appearance. So things are going great, I guess, back in Washington. We'll be right back. Okay. We are now over a week into this government shutdown. And for some reason, I don't know why someone in Speaker Mike Johnson's office thought that today of all days should be the day to make little Mike the first speaker of the house in 24 years to answer live questions on C Span.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (34:09)

And as a Republican, I am very disappointed in my party and I'm very disappointed in you because you do have.

Jen Psaki (34:14)

The power to call the House back.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (34:16)

You did that or you refused to.

Jen Psaki (34:18)

Do that just for a show.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (34:20)

I am begging you to pass this legislation.

Jen Psaki (34:22)

My kids could die. We don't have the credit because of the medical bills that I have to pay regularly.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (34:31)

You could stop this and you could be the one that could say, military is getting paid. And I think that it is awful. And the audacity of someone who makes.

Jen Psaki (34:39)

Six figures a year to do this.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (34:41)

To military families is insane.

Jen Psaki (34:44)

All right, Samantha. Samantha, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. If we did another a vote on the floor to pay troops, it's not a lawmaking exercise. Do you think in his head he was sitting there thinking, whose idea was this? And I'm going to have a conversation with them when I get back. I mean, that was a Republican mother from a military family blasting Mike Johnson justifiably for refusing to pay the troops. And the deadline timeline for that comes up next week on October 15th. And things did not get much better for Mike Johnson from there. My question is, if Republicans and Democrats can agree to a one year extension to the ACA subsidies, removing this sort of talking point of illegal immigrants, draining our resources. As you sit here and lie about this, would you support that bill and bring it to a vote on the House floor? This is a big question that I have for you. Thank you. Yeah.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (35:43)

Well, not lying.

Jen Psaki (35:44)

I'm telling you the truth.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (35:45)

And you can go look at all the documents yourself. Don't look at Republican paperwork. Look at the Congressional Budget Office, who.

Jen Psaki (35:50)

Said that we had at least 1.4.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (35:52)

Million illegal aliens draining the resources from Medicaid.

Jen Psaki (35:57)

Mike Johnson says he's not lying. It's a real tell there. Says immigrants are draining resources from Medicaid. And you can go look at the documents yourself. Thank you for that advice. Let's do just that. Here is a study published in the Journal of the American Medical association just last night. It found that in 2022, care for undocumented immigrants made up only 0.4% of total Medicaid spending. Less than half a percent. That's it. There are the documents. We can send them to your office. And look, Republican messaging around the shutdown has been a disaster, and the American people are definitely not buying it. I mean, just to give you an example of how deep a hole they've dug themselves, here is Congressman Steve Scalise.

Jeh Johnson (36:45)

Yesterday.

Ruben Gallego (36:45)

Chuck Schumer, of course, says, quote, every.

Jen Psaki (36:48)

Day this gets better for us.

Preet Bharara (36:52)

So you've got to ask yourself if.

Ruben Gallego (36:55)

You'Re Chuck Schumer in a good day.

Jen Psaki (36:58)

For you is defined by how much.

Preet Bharara (37:00)

Suffering you can impose on other people.

Ruben Gallego (37:03)

Including our men and women in uniform.

Preet Bharara (37:05)

Maybe you need to look in the.

Jen Psaki (37:07)

Mirror and check yourself at the door and wonder what it is you're up here trying to accomplish. Okay, setting aside the very confusing mixed metaphor about looking yourself in the mirror while checking yourself at the door, I'm not gonna explain that. I'm also not gonna defend Chuck Schumer's wording in that particular moment either. But the suggestion that Chuck Schumer was delighting in the suffering of federal workers is a massive stretch, especially since Republicans are the ones actually delighting in the suffering of federal workers. I mean, this week, Trump openly threatened to deny back pay to furloughed federal workers he doesn't like.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (37:45)

Is it the White House's position that.

Jen Psaki (37:47)

Furloughed workers should be paid for their back pay? I would say it depends on who we're talking about. We're going to take care of our people.

Preet Bharara (37:56)

There are some people that really don't.

Jeh Johnson (37:57)

Deserve to be taken care of, and.

Preet Bharara (37:59)

We'Ll take care of them in a different way.

Jen Psaki (38:02)

Okay, then. Now, if that wasn't enough, this morning, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy attacked air traffic controllers who don't want to work without pay, calling them problem children and threatening to fire them.

Dan Goldman (38:16)

They're the problem children. Listen, we need more controllers, but we need the best and the brightest, the dedicated controllers and if we have some on our staff that aren't dedicated like we need, we're going to let them go.

Jen Psaki (38:28)

That doesn't sound like an administration that cares about the suffering of federal workers, does it? We all know that because they never have. Look, Republicans want you to believe they have empathy for all of the federal workers affected by this shutdown. But their contempt for those same federal workers has been on display since day one. And that is a big part of why they are losing the shutdown fight. Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego joins me here to talk about where this fight goes from here next. The government shutdown has dragged on for nine days now. It has also been 16 days since Congresswoman elect Adelita Grijalva won her House race in Arizona. And yes, Grijalva represents the key vote on moving ahead with forcing the release of the Epstein files. Now consider all of the context as you watch two Arizona senators talking to Mike Johnson during a pretty heated confrontation just yesterday.

Ruben Gallego (39:25)

You don't want to be on the absent discharge. How much.

Jen Psaki (39:27)

It's totally absurd. You guys are experts at red herrings in distraction. There's nothing to do with Epstein.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (39:33)

The House Oversight Committee. The House Oversight Committee is working on the Epstein files right now, releasing 34,000.

Jen Psaki (39:39)

Pages and more on the way.

Zyn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser (39:42)

Let me finish. The House Oversight Committee.

Ruben Gallego (39:44)

This is an excuse so she doesn't sign on to that.

Jen Psaki (39:47)

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Reuben Gag of Arizona, who just called it out as totally absurd, which is a very apt description. Congressman, you've had quite, I mean, sorry, Senator, I'm sorry. You had quite a heck of a week. First of all, take me through that confrontation with Speaker Mike Johnson because we played it there. People at home may not have heard all of the context of it.

Ruben Gallego (40:07)

The context is actually Senator Kelly and I weren't looking for a conversation with Speaker Johnson. We actually went to have a press conference in front of his office because he called us out and blamed us for two things. Number one, keeping the government shut down and number two, for stopping Adelita Grijala from getting sworn in. And I wanted to make it clear to the American public that the only reason this is happening is because, you know, Speaker Mike Johnson is protecting pedophiles. That's all he's doing right now. Alexa Gerhava won by overwhelming numbers. And she has now given us different standard than almost every person that I have actually have ever been involved with when it comes to swearing in since I've been in Congress and certainly since Speaker Johnson has been speaker as a matter of fact, prior to this election, he swore in a Democrat from Virginia the day after the election was called by the press, not certified. And why? Well, that. Because that was only 217 votes. Discharge petition. Grijava makes it 218. And he needs to listen to his masters, to Donald Trump, to whoever it is to make sure that she does not sign that petition and put them in a very awkward position. And his position keeps on changing. He keeps lying and lying and lying. He expects all of us to keep lying. And then he decided to invoke my name and I'm just not going to stand for. So I went there to have a conversation and then he tried to come out and somehow think he could lie to my face and believe that I wasn't going to call him out on it. And I did. And well, you saw the results of that.

Jen Psaki (41:30)

Feels pretty comfortable lying. We've called out a bit of this here on the show tonight. Marjorie Taylor Greene said Adelaide Grijalova deserves to be sworn. And she also, also want to play you something she said about the shutdown, too, because this is all. All right. I'm not putting the blame on the president. I'm actually putting the blame on the speaker and Leader Thune in the Senate. This should not be happening. So you're putting the blame on the leadership of your party. Absolutely. We control the House. We control the Senate. We have the White House. She said it pretty clearly there. That is also where the American public is. Where do you think this goes from here? I mean, I think there's some movement of some people, kind of many people moving toward the need to do something with health care subsidies. What's next here?

Ruben Gallego (42:18)

Look, I don't know what needs to happen next is that we have to make sure 24 million Americans do not see their premiums increase almost by double starting November 1st. By November 1st. You know, and this is why I think she's particularly interested in this because she probably does the insurance shopping in her house like I do in my house. We have to start making decisions when it comes to open enrollment. And she is probably looking already at the rates that her kids are having to pay. And I guarantee you they're pretty probably pretty high. And she understands the impact it's going to have to her family. And now she's spreading it out and understand what's going to happen to her constituents. We need to get this all before November 1st. Right. The thing that is, I think the most damning about what the Republicans have done is that they've recessed and they said that we have done our job, we have a cr til November 21st, knowing full well that if they don't answer what's going to happen with these subsidies, people are going to end up paying a tax, insurance, a Trump tax on insurance that was caused by these guys not having or taking any action. The best thing they could do right now is let's get together, let's come up with a compromise. We know we have to compromise. We know we're not going to get everything we want when it comes to these subsidies. But we also want to make sure that 24 million Americans, many of them actually majority of them being Republicans, have some certainty that they're going to be able to be able to afford their health insurance company. Because come November 1st, people are gonna do two things. Number one, they're not gonna buy health insurance or number two, they're gonna end up going back and having to cut their own budgets just to be able to survive.

Jen Psaki (43:46)

This is such an important point about the millions of people impacted. Senator Ruben Gallego, I know you're also a veteran and there's an important military pay issue that's also at play. I'm so grateful for you for joining us tonight. Thank you again so much.

Ruben Gallego (44:00)

Thank you, Jen.

Jen Psaki (44:01)

We've got to take a very quick break, but trust me, you're gonna wanna stick around to hear what Lawrence has to stay at the time of his show, as always. We'll be right back. Okay, very quick reminder before we go, season two of my podcast, the Blueprint starts next week. So I'm gonna ask you just take out your phone, scan the QR code on your screen to listen to the trailer and follow the podcast now for free. The first two episodes drop next Wednesday. You can also subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

Preet Bharara (44:38)

Mazda.

Mazda Commercial Announcer (44:39)

Once you discover the Mazda CX90 plug in hybrid Mazda it doesn't take long to get it. With three rows, a luxurious interior and the ability to go all electric, it's flexible enough for nearly any journey. It will have you saying Mazda. The Mazda CX90 plug in hybrid. It's made to move you.

Preet Bharara (44:58)

Every Mazda SUV offers you an elevated.

Jeh Johnson (45:01)

Driving experience and refined performance.

Preet Bharara (45:04)

Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today.