Governor Wes Moore (2:15)

Well, look, I think again, I'm going to try to do as good of a job as I can right now.

Jen Psaki (2:21)

I mean, that laugh is so awkward. It's like the stuff of nightmares. But that was of course, Trump's number one surrogate, his vice president. He may be some sort of Manchurian Candidate, I don't know. But at a minimum, the guy is not exactly oozing charm really ever. I mean, just a few weeks ago he was booed at the opening ceremony of the Olympics in Milan. And that is actually part of a long history of fans getting booed by crowds, really all over the place. Definitely send that guy to competitive districts. That's a bang up strategy you came up there with there. But hey, listen, if Vance is too busy, he's too weird. Who knows? Trump could always call upon his incredibly relatable and not at all off the wall, bizarre Secretary of Health and Human Services RFK Jr. Here he is. This is a real video, I kid you not. In an official HHS video, he just put out with right wing musician Kid Rock to, I guess. And this is really a reach here. And I'm not here to get in the heads of their strateg, I guess, to encourage the country to work out and eat healthy, I guess. And they thought RFK Jr. Specifically thought it would be a good idea to film himself and Kid Rock doing some sort of strenuous exercises inside a sauna, shirtless. Cause we all need to see that. Getting into a cold plunge with jeans on, as one does jumping into a pool with jeans on. I don't even know. And here's my favorite. Drinking whole milk in a hot tub because. And cheersing, cheersing the whole milk. Nothing says I'm just a normal and relatable guy like drinking whole milk while relaxing in a hot tub with Kid Rock, right? Am I right? Now, not to be outdone, Trump's administrator of Medicare and Medicaid, Dr. Mehmet Oz, posted photos from his beachside brunch get together with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth this morning. Now, they reportedly took a cold plunge. They're all cold plunging apparently. And they can also be seen dangling from a palm tree. Just your average Wednesday morning there, I guess. Who knows? Not like there aren't things happening out there in the world. Trump has a lot of options. A lot of options. Those are just some of them when it comes to sending cabinet secretaries out in competitive districts. And all of them are amazingly bad options in their own unique and incredible ways. I mean, some of them literally have massive nationwide protest movements directed at their agencies, and often them specifically most of them are embroiled in at least one major scandal and none of them are known on a human level as being, well, particularly charming human beings. But I should be more specific about the Trump team's plan here. Again, according to the Wall Street Journal's Josh Dossey, the plan is to push Trump's cabinet to visit competitive districts and specifically highlight affordability issues. Now, putting aside for a second that Trump claims that affordability is a new word invented by Democrats to make him look bad. Put that on a bumper sticker, everyone. Trump's cabinet does not exactly have a great track record on that front either.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (5:24)

Let's say Social Security didn't send out.

Governor Wes Moore (5:27)

Their checks this month. My mother in law who's 94, she.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (5:34)

Wouldn'T call and complain.

Jen Psaki (5:36)

She just wouldn't.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (5:36)

She thinks something got messed up and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise.

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Screaming, yelling and complaining.

Jen Psaki (5:48)

We've run over a thousand simulations. It can cost around $3ameal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, you know, corn tortilla and one other thing. And so there is a way to do this that actually will save the average American, American consumer money.

Governor Wes Moore (6:05)

What is a mom and pop? That someone, maybe your parents for their retirement have bought 5, 10, 12 homes. So we don't want to push the mom and pops out, we just want to push everyone else out.

Jen Psaki (6:21)

President Trump, if you are watching, if any of your advisors see a clip of this on social media, wherever, definitely send those three to swing districts. Maybe they should do a bus tour. Think of the possibilities. One chicken nugget and broccoli stock for everyone. While discussing how to possibly manage those 12 homes your retired parents bought. So many possibilities. People would love, love to be told that they shouldn't complain if they don't get their Social Security checks or that they should just make their meals smaller like itty bitty tiny, one chicken nugget. Or that they should put aside their own interests in favor of those poor, poor landlords who only own a dozen homes. That would go over really well. Could be a bus tour. Now to state the obvious, the midterms are really, they're not looking great for Trump and Republicans as we know. I mean, there's time to go, but none of it's looking great. And it seems like they know that is the case. But rather than changing their policies and trying to win over more voters, as one typically does to win elections at the ballot box, it looks like they are going what they're trying to do what they're doing, clearly, is trying to steer voters away from the ballot box instead. I mean, for weeks now, Trump has been saying that Republicans should nationalize elections. We've talked about this a lot on this show, that they should do something to put elections under his control, to federalize them, which you cannot do. They're run by states. Then on Friday, Trump's DHS secretary, Christine Oem, cryptically said that her agency plans to, quote, make sure we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country. Now, when Noem said that on Friday, we, I mean, it was weird. It was kind of a lot of things, but we didn't really know what she was referring to. And today we kind of found out. We did find out. I mean, today, Ms. Now reported that the White House has directed DHS to hunt for voter fraud committed by naturalized US Citizens. Now, to put that in perspective, last year the state of Utah conducted a review of the 2.1 million people who registered to vote in that state. Out of 2.1 million people, it's a lot of people. They only found one, one instance of an ineligible person registering to vote, and that one person did not actually vote. They just registered. The conservative Heritage foundation found just 23 instances of noncitizens voting in US elections between 2003 and 2023, a 20 year span there. So the Trump administration is directing DHS to hunt for and prosecute a problem that barely, barely, barely exists. Something that we have absolutely no evidence of being a widespread problem that could actually affect election results. According to documents reviewed by msnow and three people familiar with the plan, Homeland Security Investigations agents in all field offices all across the country are all required to review both open and closed cases of suspected immigrants illegally voting. It's not just undocumented immigrants they are looking for. A memo obtained by msnow calls for HSI agents to focus largely on immigrants who eventually did become naturalized citizens. The New York Times also adds tonight that the directive envisions not just charging those now naturalized citizens with crimes or misdemeanors, but stripping them of their citizenship and deporting them. To zoom out for a second. Naturalized citizens are people who were not citizens at one point. They immigrated here from somewhere else and at that point were not allowed to vote in federal elections, but who have since become citizens and are now allowed to vote in federal elections. So the Trump administration is planning to target a group of legitimate voters, citizens with the right to vote, and threatening to strip them of their citizenship and deport them. Now, White House spokesperson Abigail Jackson said that the only people who should be concerned by this are criminals. Okay, but like I said before, non citizen voting is not a real problem in this country. It almost never happens. And as Ms. Now reports tonight, DHS is not just looking for people who voted illegally. They're also looking for people who may have just registered to vote before they were naturalized as citizens, even if they didn't actually vote. All of that strikes me as very intimidating. Very much voter suppression. But that appears to be just the beginning. That appears to be just the pretext for the other major plan from the Trump administration that Emma Snow scooped today. Emma Snow has also learned that senior DHS and Justice Department appointees have held a state series of meetings to discuss sending law enforcement to polling places to, quote, unquote, secure elections. Maybe they mean National Guard members, maybe they mean active duty military members. Maybe they mean the small armies of armed and mass federal immigration agents we have now seen taking over city after city. But whatever they mean, all of this is clearly an attempt to intimidate naturalized citizens, legal voters, from the ballot box. And amazingly, that is just one of the ways that Trump is now trying to use his power as president to unfairly sway this election. His intelligence agencies are raiding election offices to fan the flames of his old 2020 election lies. His supporters in Congress are trying to make it so. You need a passport or a birth certificate just to register to vote, even though half the country does not have passports. And Trump is pressuring Republicans in states all across the country to gerrymander their congressional maps to get him more seats. And as we get closer to the election, there will be more and more to try to do and stop all of these efforts by Trump. But this far out, one of the places where Democrats have the most opportunity to push back is redistricting. Last year, Trump managed to get Republicans to redistrict in four states. You can see them on the map. Texas, Missouri, North Carolina and Ohio. And altogether, they could net Republicans 8 to 9 more seats in the House than they would have with the old maps. Now, in response, Democrats managed to redraw the maps in California and Utah, netting a potential gain of around six seats. That means, though, that as it stands right now, Republicans have managed to draw themselves an advantage of two to three seats, two to three seats they otherwise would not have. And that's bad news. And everybody's got to be clear eyed about that. Now, the good news is that the fight is not necessarily over yet at all. Today, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries went to Maryland to press state Democratic leaders to pass their own new map and help him even the playing field.

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Jen Psaki (13:06)

And joining me now is Maryland Governor West Moore. Okay, Governor Moore, there are about a million things to ask you about, but I just wanted to start with the new reporting we got in just the last couple of hours that Trump's White House is directing DHS agents to hunt down and prosecute naturalized citizens for voter fraud, despite, of course, there being no evidence of that occurring. I mean, this is clearly it's an intimidation tactic. It certainly could be their job justification for sending the military or just law enforcement in general out to polling places, but clearly it's part of a pattern here. What do you make of this announcement and how concerned are you about it?

Governor Wes Moore (13:45)

Well, it's a continued illustration of the fact that they are not doing the things that are their jobs and they're continuing to stick their nose in things that are not their jobs. Right. They cannot take care of a sewage leak in Washington, D.C. that is their job. But they're now getting involved in elections when we all, each of the states, we have independent voter commissions that whose job it is to deal with this. That in Maryland we have free and fair and safe elections. That in Maryland we have everything from a mail in system that is laid out, early voting that is laid out. We have been very clear and very transparent and very effective in the way we handle our elections. The last thing we want is for the federal government involved in that. It is a violation of states rights. And then frankly, especially with this administration, we know it has nothing to do with election security, it has to do with election manipulation. And so this is just a continuation of watching how this administration does not take governance seriously, but what they take is retribution seriously.

Jen Psaki (14:48)

It's also voter suppression, obviously, because people who are here legally in this country now may be scared of voting.

Governor Wes Moore (14:56)

That's right.

Jen Psaki (14:57)

What can you do if they try? It also seems predictable in some ways too, because they've been clear about wanting to be able to send law enforcement of some version to the polling places. What can you do as the governor to prevent them from moving forward with this and this insane level of voter suppression?

Governor Wes Moore (15:13)

Well, it's important for people to know that. One, this is part of a larger play. Right. Whether we're talking about redistricting and going after the Voting Rights act, whether we are talking about trying to end mail in balloting, or whether we're talking about deploying armed, armed, armed military in the streets, this is about a much larger play about how they are trying to manipulate and take and steal the election in 2026. The second piece is important for people to remember is this is our elections are not run by the federal government.

Jen Psaki (15:45)

Yeah.

Governor Wes Moore (15:45)

They're run by states. And so the guarantees that we have that I can give to the people of Maryland is that there is an independent body that focuses on making sure that our elections are safe and our elections are transparent. Those are the instructions that people should be listening to. And frankly, any violations of the guidelines that they have laid out to include making sure that you are putting armed personnel anywhere in your voting booth is a violation of the law and will be treated as such, as part of the pattern.

Jen Psaki (16:14)

I definitely want to get to redistricting. Part of the pattern here is them also putting in place or trying to put in place more voter restrictions. And one of the arguments that Kristi Noem recently made about the SAVE act is that she said they want to have the right people voting now. When she said that, it seemed just kind of a bizarre thing to say. Now it kind of hits differently. How do you hear that, knowing what we know now?

Governor Wes Moore (16:42)

Well, they're very clear that the right people means people that vote for them. The right people means people that look and think like them. The right people are people who they know does not actually represent what our democracy is supposed to look like. You know, we need to make sure that people know that this is the line that we will hold, that if we are going to continue being a democracy, that part of that foundation means having free and fair and safe elections. And that has to be something that our state leaders and our state governments have got to take seriously. Thank God that the founding fathers, when they laid this out, they took it out of the hands of the federal government, and they did it for this exact reason. And so us, as chief executives of our states and as other lawmakers and legislators within our states, we have to make sure that that responsibility, that heirloom of responsibility that we have is one that we take seriously and is one that we will protect.

Jen Psaki (17:41)

You're one of a number of governors who have taken this step, but you signed an emergency bill into law yesterday ending your state's local law. Enforcement's cooperation with ice. Obviously, there are a number of reasons to do that and we've obviously seen in horror, and we'll all watch in horror what happened in Minnesota over the past several weeks. Is any part of that have anything to do with concerns you have about ICE being one of the law enforcement entities that could show up and try to intimidate voters around polling places?

Governor Wes Moore (18:09)

Absolutely. And let's be clear. When we're talking about ice, what we're talking about, we're talking about an agency who In 2024, their budget was $10 billion. Now their budget is $85 billion. It is now the largest law enforcement agency in this country. It is bigger. Ice is bigger than the FBI. Ice is bigger than the ATF. Ice is bigger than the DEA. And they are now they're the 13th largest military force in the world by funding, and they're arresting five year olds. They are arresting mothers in the Eastern Shore who simply asked to go see their son because their son was sick. When they did not let her go see her son, that the woman in the Eastern Shore, her son died of cancer while she was detained. This is not making any of us safer. And so the legislation that I signed is basically saying that we will still work with federal authorities on dealing with violent criminals, people who are murderers and rapists and pedophiles. We will work with them to make sure those people have accountability. But we're not going to allow ICE to deputize our local law enforcement who are trained and who are accountable. I will not. I have too much respect for local law enforcement to ask them to be deputized by an agency that is now putting people in our streets who are untrained, unqualified and unaccountable.

Jen Psaki (19:26)

One of the other steps you've taken or tried to take, you're trying to take, I should say, is really pushing forward on redistricting. It's on everyone's minds. Maryland's new map has been a bit of an impasse in the state Senate Leader Hakeem Jeffries was in Maryland today. The two of you were meeting with the Senate president, Bill Ferguson. Jefferies came out of that meeting, expressed confidence about things moving forward. Bill Ferguson had a bit of a different take on it. I'm guessing you're going to say it went well and you have confidence, but share with us a little bit of any progress made or where do things stand at this point in time?

Governor Wes Moore (20:01)

Well, I think Leader Jeffries came to Maryland just with the same ask that I have had, which is if you say the votes are not there in the Senate, that's fine, but you know the best way to prove that that's true? Call for a vote. Do the democratic process. You know, we have now seen how this assault on our democracy that we are, that we were just talking about, that we're seeing from the federal administration is in full effect. And its impacts we are seeing every single day. They are impacts like we're watching with the largest gain in unemployment of black women in the past year than we have seen in our nation's history. It's impacts like seeing how Maryland alone is at 25,000 federal workers fired because we have an unchecked executive. And so when Donald Trump is now calling on Texas and Florida and Ohio and Missouri and North Carolina and saying, I need you to find me seats, this is literally him trying to rig an election to make this pain that we are seeing in our states, making it permanent. And so the thing that we are simply asking, and I think Leader Jeffrey shared that with the Senate president, is the House in Maryland have already, they've debated, they discussed, they made some adjustments, but then they voted. That's democracy. And no matter how this turns out, I'll be okay because that's democracy in action. So we're simply asking the Maryland Senate and the chamber leader to be able to defend democracy as ferociously as you're defending the status quo.

Jen Psaki (21:29)

Did you get any agreement from him?

Governor Wes Moore (21:31)

No. I think there are enough senators right now who understand not just the call, but who understand the assignment. And so I am optimistic that the Maryland Senate is going to do the right thing, because it's not just that we're paying attention, frankly, their constituents are paying attention.

Jen Psaki (21:49)

Okay, sit tight, everyone. That was just part one of my conversation with Governor Wes Moore. Up next, I'm going to get his reaction to Donald Trump's newfound obsession with him, which made its way to the White House briefing room today multiple times. We're also going to hear what he said about Donald Trump's event commemorating Black History Month. That was a doozy. That's all. Come up next. Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday dot com.

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Jen Psaki (23:11)

21 a BetterHelp ad February is full of flowers and lots of relationship talk. But whether you're single, married or dating, just remember you're right on time. Sometimes it feels like everyone has it all together in their love lives, but the truth is, we're all still figuring it out. Therapy can help get some outside perspective from a professional that can lead to new understanding and a lot less pressure on yourself. And remember, you're right on time. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off. Okay, as promised, here's part two of my conversation with Maryland Governor Wes Moore Trump seems to be a bit obsessed with you right now. I don't know if you've noticed that. It's one way of putting it, I guess. I mean, he disinvited you from the White House National Governors association dinner. He's been on a bit of a rampage, as was his White House press secretary, who I'm sure maybe he directed to do that about blaming you for the Potomac sewage leak, which is a big issue, but it's not something that is under your jurisdiction. What is this all about, in your view?

Governor Wes Moore (24:25)

I mean, I just, I wish the President was as wasn't as obsessed with me, and he'd be more obsessed with the American people and what they're going through. He seems to be wholly obsessed with me. I just wish he'd be more obsessed with them. If you look at the past few days that we have introduced legislation and testifying legislation that ends the practice of price manipulation at supermarkets. So bringing the price down for supermarkets so people's data are not being used against them when they go into supermarkets. Then in the past days that we have worked with Democratic and Republican governors to get pjm, the regional grid operator, to cap their price increases for not two, but for the next four years that we have focused on bringing new economic development avenues like the sphere which is coming to Maryland, which is going to generate about $1.3 billion annually once completed. During that same period of time, the President of the United States has decided to change the colors on Air Force One, has now installed a new ballroom, and probably has tweeted about me every 30 minutes like this is absurd. And when the President Says, you know, that if Governor Moore asks me nicely to help with a sewage issue, which by the way, is a breakage of a DC pipe on federal land, Maryland has nothing to do with this. You know, my answer to the president is this. I'm asking you nicely, Mr. President, please do your job and please stop looking at all of us to have to cover up for the type of inaction that we are seeing from this White House.

Jen Psaki (25:55)

It is. We'd all like him to do his job on many fronts, including that one. There is this traveling cabinet strategy. I started the show talking about this where apparently they had a strategy meeting where part of their strategy is to send their cabinet members out to campaign in swing districts and competitive districts. You are a political guy. You've done a lot of campaigning. I'm sure you'll do a lot of campaigning, not just for yourself, but for others in the period of time ahead. What do you make of that?

Governor Wes Moore (26:23)

Well, I'm curious which ones they're going to send out. The ones in the Epstein files, or the ones who have side businesses and side hustles, or the ones who say that if you. If you miss a Social Security check that it's because you're a grifter. I'm really curious which ones they're going to send out. And I'm looking forward. I'll be eating my popcorn.

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Jen Psaki (26:45)

I mean, there's always RFK Jr. And Kid Rock in their shirtless video. They could go on the road together, who knows? There's always so much going on. I don't know if you had a chance to see this, but today Trump attempted to commemorate Black History Month. We all knew this was not going to go well. It's clear it wasn't gonna go well. It was quite a doozy. But I just wanna play a clip for you of this. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but I wanna get your reaction on the other side.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (27:15)

Mike Tyson, Boy, I tell you, Mike has been loyal to me. Whenever they come out, they say, trump's a racist. You know, it's like a statement. Trump's a racist. Mike Tyson goes, he's not a racist. He's my friend. He's been there from the beginning. Herschel Walker, speaking about loyal, how good a football player was Herschel? Herschel Walker, now he's ambassador to the Bahamas. I don't know, Bahamas. Bermuda, is he? Bahamas? Whatever.

Jen Psaki (27:41)

What do you make of that?

Governor Wes Moore (27:43)

I'm hardly ever speechless, but this is a time where it's difficult to have a response to that when the way you are addressing Black History Month is just talking about the individual black friends that you have. Black History Month is not about an individual sports hero. Black history is about the foundation of America. It's about the fact that this country's history would be incomplete if we don't fully embrace the contributions of that black Americans have made, oftentimes to a country that never showed them the same respect back, but people who love this country and were willing to fight for the hope of it. Black history is not something about talking about the friendships that you have. It is truly about understanding that this nation is a nation that is unique, diverse, deeply uneven in its history, but actually in the unevenness is actually where the glory lives. And I think about this in context of the president talking about things like banning books and banning our history, where they talk about this idea that we're one to ban history or ban books because we don't want people to feel uncomfortable. And that's not it at all, that they're trying to ban history because they don't want people to understand their power. The reason that I walk into every single room and know that I belong in that room is because I know my history. I know how people had to fight in order for me to be here. And I know the shoulders that I stand on. And so I'm not sure what the president was trying to do there, or maybe he thought that was going to ingratiate himself with the black community. What would really help to ingratiate him with the black community is stop the assault that we're seeing on the black community.

Jen Psaki (29:45)

Governor Westmore, thank you as always, for joining me here. It's a pleasure talking to you.

Governor Wes Moore (29:49)

Thank you.

Jen Psaki (29:52)

Okay. Last night, Donald Trump called for a state takeover of elections in Fulton County, Georgia. Today, he basically threatened to send federal troops into Atlanta. And tonight, the warning signs are flashing bright red. Keisha Lance Bottoms is the former mayor of Atlanta. She's now a candidate for governor in Georgia. And she joins me next.

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Jen Psaki (31:36)

For years now, Fulton County, Georgia has been at the epicenter of many of Trump's conspiracies about the 2020 election. And of course, just a few weeks ago, Trump's FBI raided Fulton County's election offices. And late last night, Trump appeared to endorse the idea of Fulton county officials losing all control of over administering their own elections. Which is a dream that might come true as soon as tomorrow when Georgia's State Election Board reconvenes for a meeting. Potentially right as Trump touches down in that state for a plan visit that apparently is supposed to be about the economy. But no doubt the threats against Georgia's elections will loom very large tomorrow, as will these ominous comments that Trump made earlier today.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (32:20)

Frankly, if these radical left lunatic Democrats would come and say please help us, please, we'd stop crimes all over the place. And we're doing it in a lot of, a lot of cities. Sometimes we have to force ourselves upon them because they're so bad. You need help in Atlanta. He just said, you're right, Atlanta, Atlanta. We could take care of Atlanta. I'll tell you what, you ought to get them to come call me. We could take care of Atlanta so fast.

Jen Psaki (32:50)

I mean, there's that. Joining me now is the former mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms, who is now running to be the governor of Georgia. So many things to ask you about. Let me start with today the Georgia State Election Board met for the first time since the FBI raid of Fulton county. And tomorrow the meeting is going to continue. It's been live streaming, but there is some a lot of speculation out there that the board could initiate a state takeover of Fulton County's elections or do wor. I suppose when you Think about that potential. Where does your mind. Where does your mind go.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (33:26)

Jen? I have so many thoughts on this. Congressman John Lewis was my congressman, and I saw a quote from him today that really touched my core. And that quote was that his greatest fears was that we would wake up one day and our democracy would be gone. I don't know the context in which Congressman Lewis shared that sentiment, but we certainly are experiencing that right now that we are witnessing this dismantling of our democracy in this state. Donald Trump and this rogue election board have made a mockery of our democracy. But what I can also tell you is that as the cradle of the civil rights movement in America, what he is doing, I can guarantee you, will backfire. We've seen record turnout in this state, and I know we will see it again in 2026, because people are angry. They want to fight back. And what I know is that Congressman Lewis reminded us that our right to vote is sacred. It's precious, and if we don't use it, we will lose it. And I trust that people will use it in a mighty way this November and in 68 days when early voting begins in Fulton County.

Jen Psaki (34:50)

It seems very clear to me, and I was talking with Governor Westmore about this. I mean, this is a lot of things, this whole pattern, but it's big, big, big voter suppression, which you're talking about and you're alluding to, too. It's trying to scare people. It's trying to prevent them from coming out. This past weekend, Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff, who you could be on a ticket with, accused the Trump administration of ordering the Fulton county raid to suppress black voters. It's. I mean, do you agree with that? Do you think that's what the genesis of all of this is?

Keisha Lance Bottoms (35:20)

I absolutely agree with it. And the irony is that Jen, a Republican presidential nominee, has not won in Fulton county since Nixon was on the ballot in 1972. Donald Trump lost Fulton county by over 200,000 votes the last two times that he was on the ballot. So this delusional belief that he Somehow will find 12,000 votes in Fulton county is not based in reality. And unfortunately, we're not seeing Republicans speak up, even in 2020. And you were a part of that campaign. You know how hard we work to turn out the vote, not just in Fulton county, but across the state of Georgia. But Brian Kemp stood up in 2020. Even Brad Raffensperger stood up. And we're not seeing Republicans push back in the way that they did that last go round. So it's really unfortunate. But I'll just remind people the most powerful weapon that we have is our vote, and it's our opportunity to push back. And I can tell you, as governor of this state, I'm going to use every tool in the toolbox, from taking Donald Trump to court to looking at the voting measures that have been passed in this state that have made it more difficult for people to access the ballot. But at the end of the day, we all have the power to make a difference. And that power is to show up and vote.

Jen Psaki (36:55)

Keisha Lynn Spottams a very powerful message for people to hear when a lot of people out there are really scared. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

Keisha Lance Bottoms (37:03)

Thank you for having me.

Jen Psaki (37:05)

Okay. Coming up, we got some stunning new details out of the House Oversight Committee's deposition with Les Wexner today. And the Democrat who led that deposition said there is one specific thing he can't get over. And Annie Farmer is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse. You've seen her. We've talked to her before. Many people have talked to her before. She's been very outspoken. And we're going to get her reaction to all of this when we come back. Earlier today, the House Oversight Committee wrapped up their deposition with longtime Victoria's Secret boss and Jeffrey Epstein funder Les Wexner on his estate in New Albany, Ohio. Only Democratic members participated. No Republican lawmakers joined. And Wexner's spokesperson told msNow that he, quote, has no knowledge of and did not participate in Epstein's illegal conduct. Okay, but this is the same man whose name appears in the Epstein files on multiple occasions. And while appearing in the files doesn't necessarily mean knowledge of Epstein's crimes, this is the same man whose survivors have long said provided Epstein with vast sums of money, the same man who Virginia Giuffre testified in a deposition that Epstein trafficked her to and who she said she had sex with multiple times. Buckshtner, we should note, denies that. He's also the same man whose name has become part of the very first Epstein accusation reported to law enforcement. Both Maria and Annie Farmer suffered abuse at the hands of Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Maria testified that she was assaulted in the same town where Wexner lives. And today's deposition occurred in the same town where she said that she was prevented from leaving to tell her story by the sheriff and by others tied to Les Wexner. Now, House Oversight Democrats say that Wexner claimed today to have little knowledge or no knowledge of these allegations given all that. It's pretty jaw dropping that Congressman Robert Garcia shared this detail from today's deposition. Wexner told the members that the FBI and the Justice Department never reached out to him. Never. That's crazy. Joining me now is Annie Farmer, survivor of abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Annie, thank you, as always, for being here with me. I just have to start. This is something I think I and our team hasn't really been able to get over. I mean, Congressman Garcia said Wexner told the oversight members that the FBI and DOJ never reached out to him. And we may just know the service. I mean, I just outlined some of the public accusations that are out there. Obviously, he's also been a big funder of Epstein's. What does that say to you, especially given how they handled your own reports of this kind of abuse?

Annie Farmer (39:49)

I keep thinking I can't be shocked by information that comes out in this case. And then, once again, I am. That was extremely disturbing and infuriating, really, to think that given my sister Marie Farmer's report about what happened on his property and the fact, as you said, that his own staff threatened her and tried to prevent her from leaving, Given what we know about what Virginia Robert Giuffre testified about how he harmed. About how Wexner harmed her, the fact that the FBI would never have even questioned him in any way is. It's just mind blowing to me.

Jen Psaki (40:28)

It should be mind blowing to any human being with a brain and a soul out there. But is it credible? I can't imagine it is. Is it credible when you hear Wexner says he was just duped by a con man, Epstein?

Annie Farmer (40:44)

I don'ti think that is very hard to believe. I mean, if we look at the nature of the relationship, the length of their relationship, the amount of money and responsibility he entrusted Epstein with, it's extremely hard to believe that this was not someone that knew more about him. Right. This is not somebody that just stopped by his house or had lunch with him. This is someone who, you know, allowed to be in charge of his wealth. Right. And was really the reason that Epstein was able to do things like buy islands and buy jets. And so, no, for me, that is completely unbelievable.

Jen Psaki (41:23)

You have long raised, and I, hopefully people are listening to you or have started listening to you for a long time that Wexner was such a major source of Epstein's wealth. I mean, there you mentioned kind of the jets and the islands. But what everybody's learning right now that you've long Known is that this is a whole web of people across the country, across the world, and the money is such a key part of it. So, broadly speaking, how was all of this wealth and a lot of it gained from Les Wexner and the relationship? How was it used in this kind of predator ring that Epstein was involved with and leading?

Annie Farmer (42:02)

It seems.

Governor Wes Moore (42:03)

Yeah.

Annie Farmer (42:03)

I mean, it seems to me, from what we're learning from the files, is that once he had that type of wealth, it enabled him to then bring in people that gave him, you know, additional kind of, you know, access to people in, whether it was in academia or in the arts. Right. It was like, once he was considered someone to know, then that provided new relationships that he used and brokered to then ultimately, you know, I think, make people feel like they were. It was worth it to look the other way about the behavior that he was exhibiting. That was very problematic. I mean, I think we can see this in some of the documents about, like, the going back and forth with the banks. People are flagging this, but it's like, well, but he still has relationships with people in power, so I guess it's worth keeping him on as a client. Right. And why was that? Because of all this money that I believe he had from. From Wexner initially. Right. And, you know, I also think it's important to highlight that, you know, this is not the only sexual abuse case that Wexner is associated with. You know, for a long time, the men of the male survivors of Ohio State coach, Dr. Strout, who, you know, we know, again, abused hundreds of young men there. And Les Wexner was on the board of trustees while this was happening. And we know there were very early reports about his behavior. And so, you know, I just think that this is someone that certainly has a lot to answer for.

Jen Psaki (43:34)

Annie Farmer, thank you for courageously speaking out. Appreciate you, as always. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram, and TikTok.

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