Trump gets played as world leaders he admires see through his theatrics

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trump Gets Played as World Leaders He Admire See Through His Theatrics"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Briefing with Jen Psaki
• Host/Author: MSNBC
• Description: Jen Psaki tackles the biggest issues of the week and features one-on-one interviews with newsmakers.
• Episode: Trump Gets Played as World Leaders He Admires See Through His Theatrics
• Release Date: June 14, 2025

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Introduction to the Issue

The episode opens with Rachel Maddow addressing a significant and unprecedented event: for the first time since federal troops were deployed in Los Angeles, a member of the U.S. Marine Corps is seen detaining a civilian on U.S. soil. This incident has sparked serious concerns about the military's role in domestic affairs.

Military Involvement in Domestic Law Enforcement

At [00:42], Maddow reports footage showing two Marines handcuffing a young man attempting to pass through a National Guard checkpoint outside a federal building in Los Angeles. The detained individual, a veteran himself, was merely trying to reach the Department of Veterans Affairs office. Maddow emphasizes the gravity of this event, stating:

"It's a big deal because the armed forces are generally forbidden from engaging in domestic law enforcement. It's obviously not what we saw here." [00:42]

This misuse of military personnel raises alarming questions about the appropriate boundaries between military and civilian sectors within the United States.

Trump’s Military Parade: A Vanity Project

Transitioning to Washington, D.C., Maddow highlights the military buildup around the National Mall in preparation for what Trump has branded as the 250th anniversary of the Army. However, Maddow criticizes the event as a veiled celebration of Trump's birthday. She notes:

"That's what they're still telling people. One that we all actually know is primarily a vanity driven birthday celebration for President Trump. That's what it really is." [01:15]

The parade, costing at least $43 million, is overseen by Ari Melber, a young man with a background at Fox News, sparking backlash among military participants who fear the politicization of the armed forces.

Military Leaders Speak Out

Later in the episode, Maddow brings in retired four-star General Wesley Clark and retired Major General Paul Eaton to discuss the implications of military involvement in domestic events.

• General Wesley Clark ([15:00]) describes the detainment incident as:

  "A very, very tragic and improper image. It gives the wrong message to the public about the United States Marine Corps and the armed forces." [15:00]

  He further criticizes the use of Marines for political displays rather than their intended purpose of national defense.

• General Paul Eaton ([16:32]) echoes these sentiments, stating:

  "The men and women in the armed forces... did not join our services to work inward, to do basic police work." [16:32]

  Eaton expresses confidence that those deployed in Los Angeles feel uncomfortable and out of place, highlighting a disconnect between military duties and political objectives.

Trump’s Alliances and Their Rejection

Maddow shifts focus to Trump's relationships with authoritarian leaders like Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Benjamin Netanyahu. She points out that despite Trump's attempts to flatter and emulate these leaders, they are beginning to distance themselves from him.

For instance, North Korean diplomats have reportedly rejected a letter from Trump aimed at rekindling their rapport. Maddow remarks:

"If you shove the memory of that rapport into the dark recesses of your brain, I certainly don't blame you." [06:00]

Similarly, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's recent actions against Iran have sidelined Trump's influence, further demonstrating that these leaders no longer see value in aligning closely with him.

Public and Political Backlash

Amidst these developments, a significant number of protests are being organized across the United States in response to Trump's actions. The "No Kings Day" protests are set to take place nationwide, with over 2,000 planned events aiming to counteract Trump's strongman tactics.

Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois engages in a candid discussion with Maddow about the potential for increased militarization and the role of state and local leaders in resisting Trump's threats. He states:

"I would rather he came and arrested me than do that to the people of our state." [25:49]

Pritzker emphasizes the importance of peaceful protest and the need for continued resistance against authoritarian impulses.

Ari Melber’s Stand Against Authoritarianism

Reporter Ari Melber joins the conversation, highlighting the organic nature of the protests and dismissing Trump's claims that they are orchestrated by paid insurrectionists:

"These aren't spontaneous at all. They're about as authentic as Astroturf." [35:52]

Melber underscores the grassroots movement fueled by genuine public dissatisfaction, asserting:

"I've been very afraid for our country." [30:05]

Future Implications and Public Sentiment

Maddow discusses recent polling data indicating substantial disapproval of Trump's handling of his presidency:

• Quinnipiac Poll: 54% disapprove ([35:43])
• AP Poll: 60% disapprove ([35:43])

These figures reflect a growing disconnect between Trump and the American populace, further legitimizing the widespread protests and resistance.

Conclusion: The Fight for Democracy

The episode concludes with a focus on National Lightning Safety Awareness Week, symbolizing the broader theme of preparedness and resilience against natural and political storms. Maddow ties this back to the ongoing political turmoil, emphasizing the importance of safeguarding democratic institutions against authoritarian threats.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow: "It's a big deal because the armed forces are generally forbidden from engaging in domestic law enforcement." [00:42]
• General Wesley Clark: "It gives the wrong message to the public about the United States Marine Corps and the armed forces." [15:00]
• Governor J.B. Pritzker: "I would rather he came and arrested me than do that to the people of our state." [25:49]
• Ari Melber: "These aren't spontaneous at all. They're about as authentic as Astroturf." [35:52]

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki" delves deep into the troubling intersections of military involvement in domestic affairs, the waning influence of Trump's favored authoritarian leaders, and the resilient pushback from American citizens and political leaders. Through insightful interviews and compelling reportage, the episode underscores a pivotal moment in American democracy, highlighting both the challenges and the unwavering spirit of resistance against undemocratic tendencies.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Rachel Maddow]

Today, for the very first time since federal troops were sent into Los Angeles, we saw a member of the US Marine Corps detain a civilian outside a federal building in la. You can see the footage right there on the screen. That's according to Reuters, which obtained this footage. You're seeing two Marines appearing to handcuff and temporarily detain a young man for walking through a National Guard checkpoint. Now, the man who was detained is reportedly a veteran himself who was just trying to get to the Department of Veterans affairs office when he was stopped. It's a big deal because the armed forces are generally forbidden from engaging in domestic law enforcement. It's obviously not what we saw here. So this raises more serious questions about the appropriate use of the military on U.S. soil. And that brings us to Washington, D.C. where it may be raining, but right now tons of military hardware, including helicopters, artillery, tanks, are being positioned up and down along the National Mall. You can see some of the shots in the footage there. That's the National Mall, everyone. All in preparation for what the Trump team is still, I guess, kind of pretending is a celebration of the 250th anniversary of the Army. That's what they're still telling people. One that we all actually know is primarily a vanity driven birthday celebration for President Trump. That's what it really is. I mean, Trump didn't even leave this $43 million at least to maybe more. Who knows? Ego boosting party in the hands of someone who might actually know how to celebrate the army, while still, of course, making him feel like a very special birthday boy. Because thanks to new reporting from the Atlantic, we now know that Trump's handbook choice to oversee his military parade is none other than a young man in his 20s named Ari. Now, this young man finished college in 2021. Congratulations to you, Ari. And if you're wondering what he was doing before Trump picked him for this big job. Well, it may not come as a surprise that he had a very important role over at Fox News.

[Ari Melber]

Thank you very much. That's the voice of our producer Ari.

[Rachel Maddow]

Who currently is driving.

[Ari Melber]

We've made it to the airport and I got say this is probably the nicest airport I've ever been at.

[Rachel Maddow]

Beautiful.

[Ari Melber]

Yeah, it's Ari the driver.

[Rachel Maddow]

So Ari the driver, not my definition. That was Steve Doocy there calling him Ari the driver. 820something, whose last job was at Fox News thinking the airport is beautiful, is reportedly overseeing a $43 million at least military parade on the taxpayer's dime. And according to the Atlantic, his new role has prompted a backlash. Of course it has among participants who worry that his installation portends bid by Trump to channel the patriotism surrounding the anniversary into a celebration of himself. And yeah, that's been his intention all along. But with each passing day, we seem to be getting more and more evidence. I mean, just this morning, Mother Jones reported that some of the other organizers of tomorrow's festivities are the very same political operatives behind Trump's election denial rally at the Ellipse on January 6th. And yes, that's of course the rally that culminated with a full on attack on the US Capitol. For Trump, this has never really been about celebrating America's armed forces. To state the complete obvious here, it's about using the military as pawns in his effort to appear big and strong and tough. I mean, it was just three days ago that Trump used uniformed soldiers at Fort Bragg as the backdrop for, for what ended up being a political rally.

[Donald Trump]

In Los Angeles. The governor of California, the mayor of Los Angeles. They're incompetent. You think this crowd would have showed up for Biden? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, fake news, ladies and gentlemen. Look at them. Look at them all. What, I have to put up with fake news.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now since all of that you just saw happened, Military.com has done some incredible reporting on the staging that went into that event, including hand picking soldiers for the audience based on political leanings and physical appearance. One unit level message bluntly said no fat soldiers, literally. There was even campaign style MAGA merchandise being sold on army property. Things ranging from Make America Great Again chain necklaces to fake credit cards with the words white privilege card trumps everything that was being sold there. Here's the thing. Using the army for political purposes is a huge breach of protocol. Obviously, the military is supposed to be a nonpartisan apolitical institution. Service members swear an oath to the country, not to the president, not to any president. But Trump clearly doesn't care. He's using those troops to try and appear tough. In fact, everything he is doing right now is an attempt to appear tough. There's his use of the military, for sure, but there's also the way he's weaponized federal law enforcement agencies like ICE to terrorize immigrant communities. In a made for TV crackdown that has produced images like this all week.

[News Reporter]

Heavily armed and armored U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement agents marked a volatile Friday in the heart of Los Angeles during a series of immigration sweeps.

[Rachel Maddow]

Seven year old Jorge Vasquez cried uncontrollably as he watched ICE agents take his father away in handcuffs. ICE agents swarm a vehicle in Boyle Heights with guns drawn after blocking it.

[Ad Voice]

In in an intersection. The driver getting out with his hands up, motioning to the officers. He has his kids, the car.

[Rachel Maddow]

This is one of at least 26 immigration enforcement operations at car washes. Federal agents creating a barrier around David Huerta as he is on the ground being detained.

[News Reporter]

These new images of ICE agents chasing.

[Rachel Maddow]

Workers through Strawberry Fields. Multiple people getting detained by Homeland Security. This is at the Home Depot parking lot. All of those horrific public displays you just saw, and there are many more, that's just a sample. Isn't a byproduct of Trump's agenda, it's part of the goal. And this whole show of force, the military parade, the heavy handed ICE raids, the crackdown on protests, it's all adapted from the playbooks of the foreign leaders Trump has long admired. Strongmen like Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and even Benjamin Netanyahu. Leaders who Trump has gone out of his way to publicly praise and align himself with. At times, he even fawns over them. It's creepy. Sometimes he defends them when most other world leaders are not, when they certainly don't deserve to be defended. And overall, he emulates their styles of governing. But here's the thing. Despite all of Trump's admiration and flattery and desire to be like them, those leaders, many of them, are now rejecting him. I mean, here's a real headline from this Trump's new love letters reportedly rebuffed by Kim Jong Un. Daily visa sighting reports that North Korean diplomats have refused to accept a letter Trump wrote to the North Korean despot in hopes of reviving the bizarre rapport they had during his first term. If you shove the memory of that rapport into the dark recesses of your brain, I certainly don't Blame you. I almost did. But it's worth remembering the fact that Trump, back in 2018, said that he and Kim Jong Un, the North Korean dictator, fell in love through their exchanges. We went back and forth and we fell in love. Trump said, no, really, he wrote me beautiful letters and they are great letters. And now Trump's second chance, I guess, at love with the dictator has been flatly rejected. That's not even the most embarrassing story. There are others. I mean, for decades now, even before his political career, Trump has sung Putin's praises, trying so desperately to get on the Russian leader's good side. This feels like a very long time ago, and it is a very long time ago. But back in 2013, Trump actually tweeted, do you think Putin will be going to the Miss Universe pageant in November in Moscow? If so, will he become my new best friend? There's a tweet for everything, isn't there? Now, that tweet obviously encapsulates Trump's years long pursuit, which only got thirstier after he was elected president. Something, of course, they were eager to help him with, as we all remember. I mean, I suppose Trump's logic might be, maybe I owe them, or if I befriend Putin, the Kremlin will do whatever I want. Which is obviously not how it has worked out at all. I mean, every time Trump has attempted to end the war in Ukraine, like he said he would, remember his vow to end the war in 24 hours, every single time Trump has tried to fulfill that promise, at every turn, Putin has rejected him. In fact, Russia has only escalated the war into dangerous new territory. And big surprise, Putin isn't the only strongman leader who has embarrassed Trump. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is another example. Netanyahu and Trump have a bit of a complicated history, I guess you could call it. But there's always been some form of love and affection between the two. I mean, during the election, Bibi visited Trump at Mar a Lago, where Trump reassured reporters that the two always had a great relationship. But guess what? After Trump was elected, when push came to shove, Bibi Netanyahu rejected Trump. I mean, on Monday, Trump explicitly told Netanyahu and Israel not to bomb Iran, given the diplomatic negotiations over a nuclear deal. And then just three days later, Israel bombed Iran. As a result, just over the span of the last 24 hours or so, Israel and Iran have launched multiple waves of airstrikes against one another. The Middle east once again could be on the verge of exploding into a wider regional war. The United States is shifting its military resources, including ships in the Middle East. American air defense systems and a Navy destroyer are being used to help Israel shoot down incoming ballistic missiles from Iran, despite the White House saying they weren't going to be involved. No matter how many reporters Trump calls up to say, actually, these strikes are excellent to try and make it. I mean, that's what he's doing. He's calling all these reporters. He's basically doing that to try and make it seem like he wanted them all along. What is abundantly clear is that Trump is getting a bit played here. I mean, Netanyahu wanted to do this. He's wanted to do it for a long, long time through many presidents, but he did this week. Trump couldn't stop him, just like he can't stop Putin. These world leaders see right through him. They understand his weaknesses and so do the American people. Tomorrow, on the day of Trump's birthday parade, what is expected to be the largest planned protest against the Trump administration will be taking place across the country. The no Kings protests. Organizers are expecting roughly 2,000 protests. You can see them on the map right there. To take place across the country in all 50 states. The American people are standing up to what Trump is trying to carry out. This brand of strongman governing he is seemingly trying to emulate here in this country. So as we bear witness to an armed active duty United States Marine detaining a civilian on US Soil on the day before Trump plans to roll out tanks and have soldiers march on the streets of the Capitol in celebration of his birthday. It's important to stop and recognize where we are as a country where we still could go and how to ultimately stop some of the worst things from happening. Retired four star General Wesley Clark and retired Major General Paul Eaton are standing by and they join me in just 90 seconds.

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[Rachel Maddow]

Hey guys.

[News Reporter]

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[Rachel Maddow]

Joining me now, retired four star General Wesley Clark. He served as the NATO Supreme Allied Commander. And retired Major General Paul Eaton, who was a commanding general during the Iraq war and currently serves as as a senior advisor for the organization Vote Vets. Thank you both so much for joining me. General Clark, let me start with you. We now have video. I played it at the top of the show that shows Marines in Los Angeles have carried out their first detainment of a civilian in Los Angeles. The young man they detained is also a veteran. He said they were doing his job. The job. They were just doing their jobs. But I wonder what you think of those images of U.S. forces detaining Americans on U.S. soil.

[General Wesley Clark]

I think it's a very, very tragic and improper image. It gives the wrong message to the public about the United States Marine Corps and the armed forces. And these Marines are there basically for no good reason other than to look tough and to promote President Trump's domestic political agenda. You know, the Secretary of defense said he wanted to emphasize lethality. Well, this is no emphasis on lethality. These Marines should be back at 29 palms or wherever they were training and getting ready to go work against China or secure the Philippines or through their training simply deter China. But that's not happening. Instead, they're part of a domestic political show, essentially.

[Rachel Maddow]

General Eden, I've spoken with a number of veterans and former active duty military this week, including Jake Auchincloss, who made the point that at Twentynine Palms they're trained, which is where these Marines are coming from, for overseas, of course, deployment, for taking on, for using lethal force. And they're being asked to do things that they shouldn't be asked to do. And in fact, some of the reporting suggests from the Guardian that some of the National Guard troops and Marines have been deeply troubled by their deployment in Los Angeles. I think I want to ask you about this because I don't think there's been enough focus on what the men and women serving our country have been, the position they have been put in here as well. I wanted to know what you thought about that, Jen.

[General Paul Eaton]

Indeed, the men and women in the armed forces of the United States did not join our services to work inward, to, to do basic police work that they are not trained for, that we train our great men and women in blue to do after many, many weeks of training. That's not why they chose to become soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors. This is a great disappointment to them. I am confident that they feel extremely uncomfortable doing what's been asked of them in Los Angeles.

[Rachel Maddow]

It seems that that is played out in the reporting as well. I'm sure we'll hear more about it. I want to bring you both back to Washington, D.C. i'm obviously here tonight. We're going to see there's this parade tomorrow. There are the National Mall has been kind of taken over by military equipment. This seems to be the White House is still saying this is a celebration of the army, which of course, we all want to honor, but we all know it's the celebration of Trump's birthday. General Kirk, let me just start with you and get your sense of what you think about all of this happening tomorrow.

[General Wesley Clark]

Well, we certainly wouldn't be doing this if it weren't President Trump's birthday. That's the first thing. Secondly, it's an expensive proposition. Third, it takes training time away. So it's not just the four days that the troops are up there. They probably spent the last 10 days getting ready for it, sizing up, making sure people were deployable. Now, let's face reality. There'd be some of these guys who, gals who've never been to D.C. they may say, hey, we're going to get an afternoon off. I'm going to get to see a baseball game or go look at the Washington Monument. And for these people, it'll be okay. But for the organization, for the purpose of it, you can't imagine how hard our army works. Brigades are deployed overseas. They have to train up to get there. They come back. Most of these soldiers are married. They need family time. And now in the middle of this, we brought these men and women up here to Washington, D.C. for essentially a fantasy, the fantasy that the United States is like third world countries. We have to have the military parade to look really strong and really great. We don't usually do this. This is not our tradition. It's not the best use of the armed forces. And it plays right into the politicization, Jim, that you mentioned in the Fort Bragg speech, which is anathema, should be to the men and women and especially the leadership, because the leadership of the army has to be non political. You serve whoever's the commander in chief. You give your best advice. You don't tune it to the politics of the party in power. You tell it like it is. And yet all of that's getting blurred and sullied by this, by this administration. It is very worrisome.

[Rachel Maddow]

It also feels like so many of the troops and military are being used as a form of props or that's sort of how I see it. But General Eden, how do you see the parade and all of the politicization that we've seen over the last week? Plus.

[General Paul Eaton]

To borrow from Senator Rand Paul, what's going on in Washington, D.C. right now is a very bad look for the armed forces of the United States and for our country before our allies and before the world. And as part of a greater crisis of civil military relations that this president and his administration have triggered. The spectacle of what happened at Fort Bragg is a new low for a failure on the part of civilian leadership to understand the armed forces of the United States, to stay out of politics with the armed forces as backdrops. That was a disgusting display of a just a complete disregard for the good order and discipline of the armed forces of the United States, where young men and women were behaving the way they were during our fourth estate and elected American officials, a sad day.

[Rachel Maddow]

They were also vetting them. It was just, all of it was disgusting. The Military Times has done some incredible reporting. General Wesley Clark, General Paul Eaton, thank you both so much for joining me this evening. I really appreciate it. And coming up, thank you. A conversation with Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker. I'm going to get his thoughts on the outrageous detainment of Senator Alex Padilla, Donald Trump's threats to arrest him, his political opponents, and find out how he would push back if Trump deploys troops to Illinois next, which he very well may. We'll be right back.

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[Rachel Maddow]

Catch me talking with my friends about.

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Rachel Maddow]

Hey guys.

[News Reporter]

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[Rachel Maddow]

The Trump administration really likes to threaten people who oppose them with arrest. They really like to threat people, not just immigrants, not just regular people, but also community leaders and elected officials. And in some cases they have actually followed through on those threats. We've seen that take place over the course of the last week, especially they arrested and detained Los Angeles labor leader David Huerta. They arrested and charged Newark Mayor Ross Baraka and indicted New York New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica MacGyver. Federal agents shoved California Senator Alex Padilla to the ground and handcuffed him. We all saw that footage yesterday. Trump border czar Tom Homan has been particularly zealous with threatening to arrest elected officials like California Governor Gavin Newsom and Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass. But more and more state and local officials are making clear that they're not afraid of standing between those threats and the communities they represent. Take Shawn Barnes, the police chief in Seattle.

[Ari Melber]

I will do everything in my power. I want to be clear to protect anyone in Seattle from anyone who comes.

[Rachel Maddow]

To this city with the intention to.

[Ari Melber]

Hurt them or inhibit their First Amendment rights.

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And what that means is at some.

[Ari Melber]

Point I will probably go to jail.

[Rachel Maddow]

And be in prison. Here's California Governor Gavin Newsom. Lay your hands off four year old girls that are trying to get educated. Lay your hands off these poor people.

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Just trying to get live their lives, man.

[Rachel Maddow]

Trying to live their lives, paying their taxes. Been here 10 years. The fear, the horror, the hell is.

[Donald Trump]

This guy come after me, arrest me.

[Rachel Maddow]

Let's just get it over with, tough guy. Yesterday on Capitol Hill, Congressman Maxwell Frost asked some other governors what they'd do if Trump tried to arrest them. Here's New York Governor Kathy Hochul. If Tom Homan comes to Albany to arrest me, I'll say go for it. You can't intimidate a governor. We're here on the front lines every day fighting to defend our rights, our values and the public safety of our residents. Go for it, says Kathy Hochul. And here's Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker.

[Ari Melber]

If Tom Homan were to come to try to arrest us, my me rather I can say first of all that he can try. I can also tell you that I will stand in the way of Tom Homan going after people who don't deserve to be frightened in their communities, who don't deserve to be threatened, terrorized. I would rather that he came and arrested me than do that to the people who of my state.

[Rachel Maddow]

I would rather he came and arrested me than do that to the people of our state. Now, after that hearing, it's safe to say I had lots of questions for Governor Pritzker. Here's our conversation. While you were testifying, Senator Alex Padilla was forcibly removed, pushed to the ground, handcuffed, simply for entering, escorted, I would note, into a room where the Secretary of Homeland Security was doing a press conference because he wanted to ask questions on behalf of his constituents. I'm sure you saw that during a break or when you left the hearing. What was your initial response to that?

[Ari Melber]

Honestly, a bit shocked and dismayed. But I have to say we have been steadily moving toward this kind of authoritarianism. I've called it out, as you know, many, many times. But think about just everything that that's happened. The militarization of the effort to go after undocumented people, sometimes people, most times, in fact, people who've been in our communities for 10, 20, 30 years, raising families to go after them, holding down jobs, following the law, paying taxes. And these are people that are having their doors broken down and taken away. This authoritarianism now has reached the United States Senate and a United States senator who simply wanted an answer to a question from the Department of Homeland Security secretary. And they were unwilling to answer questions and indeed pushed him back, threw him down and handcuffed him.

[Rachel Maddow]

It is one of the things he noted is that it's not about him. You've said things like this many times. It's about the people he's representing and what they're experiencing. And almost as disturbing as what we saw happen to Senator Padilla is what Kristi Noem said before this happened, which is she said she was liberating the city of LA from socialist and burdensome leadership. That is emblematic of what they are, how they see their roles. And as you know, it's not just L. A. They have made clear they're coming to Chicago, they're coming to Washington, D.C. they're coming to New York City. What do you make of that and their perspective and their approach to this?

[Ari Melber]

Well, note where they're going. Right. These are the states that he didn't win. These are states where he knows he has people pushing back governors like Kathy Hochul in New York, like me in Illinois. And to be honest, you can see him targeting people. And it's not. It's individuals, it's governors, but it's also people, groups of people. Right. It's immigrants. And I just want to remind you that, you know, when I think back in the early days of the. The Nazis taking over in Germany, that what they were doing was dehumanizing people by saying about people who were citizens of that country. At the time, this was a democracy, a constitutional republic. They were saying, oh, they're immigrants. Why? Because they're just different than the majority of the population. But these are people who had lived there for generations. They were German citizens. Here. We're talking about Americans who've lived here, here for many, many years. And we're also talking about taking away. Sometimes they're ripping people away who are US Citizens, taking them off the streets and disappearing them. And we've seen this over and over again where they're now talking about taking people to Guantanamo. They've taken them to El Salvador, Libya. We've heard now this is the kind of thing that the Trump administration is over and over again, they're evidencing what they intend to be, which is truly an authoritarian regime.

[Rachel Maddow]

No question about that. This is all. It's normalizing, all of this wanting to normalize it. Let'si know you've thought about this. You've been very vocal about this long before Many have. I mean, it seems like it's possible that we could see intensified raidsice raids in Chicago. There have been some, but they could intensify. There could be largely pure peaceful protests in response, which we've seen across the country, including in Chicago. Donald Trump could deploy the National Guard, send them to Illinois without letting you know first, without asking if you need them, could send Marines. Your laws are different than California, I think it's important to note. But what do you do in that scenario? What are you preparing to do?

[Ari Melber]

First, They've called out, literally, the military, the US Military to go on US Soil and go after US Residents. That hasn't happened. I mean, maybe it happened in the 60s, in the early 70s. It happened once or twice, but it's hyper unusual. And what is he doing? He's taking a peaceful protest that was frankly dying down in Los Angeles and turning it into. Well, he's igniting flames that are causing so much trouble. If he does that in the state of Illinois, here's what I can say. It's illegal. I do not believe that the President has the ability to call out the National Guard on the people of Illinois. Second, every time I have been asked by local law enforcement when they need help, we have called out the National Guard in la. The local police department did not ask for help. They had it under control. But over the top came these federal troops in Illinois. What we do is, again, listen to local law enforcement and then we take action if they need more help from state police and then National Guard if they do. But having the President of the United States call out troops on Americans, that's just. It's unfathomable. And it fits with this narrative that I'm telling you is happening, which is they really believe in authoritarianism. It is a cult. It is a cult around Donald Trump, and that is what leads to something like a dictatorship. And I'm very afraid for our country.

[Rachel Maddow]

I think we all are. And you've been calling it out for some time. We watched the entire hearing that you lived through and spoke through. And one of the moments that stuck out to me, one of them was when a Republican congressman, Gary Palmer, suggested the panel of Democratic governors should face criminal charges. I mean, this week, obviously, Trump mused aloud about arresting a sitting governor. I just played the clip of you saying they can try, which I love that response. Is that something that you and other governors are preparing for? Is that a reality of what we may be facing right now in this country?

[Ari Melber]

I think the American public is seeing what this Trump administration is doing. And that's why you're seeing people go out and protest and they're peacefully protesting when they're left to themselves. Right. These are peaceful protesters who go out in Chicago. There probably will be one on Saturday as there is, I think, all across the country peaceful protesting. Now, anybody who's going to commit violence, they should be held accountable, whoever it is. But I can tell you that peaceful protesting is frankly something we should be proud of. I mean, this is how we got civil rights changes in this country. This is how we've ended up with LGBTQ rights. This is how we've stood up for immigrants. And that's why I think it's so important for people to speak speak up and speak out. I'm not afraid. I am not afraid of Donald Trump. I'm not afraid of Tom Homan. I will stand up for the people of Illinois. And frankly, I think so many people standing up for the people of the United States. If we just get people out to speak their mind and especially in Republican districts, I think those congressmen that were on that panel that I was in will see that their jobs are on the line and that people in their districts do not appreciate what they they are trying to do to this country. They've got Trump submission syndrome, these Republicans, and they have got to get over it and actually do their jobs.

[Rachel Maddow]

Governor J.B. pritzker, I know you've had a long day. I always appreciate talking with you. You're always direct. Thank you so much for joining me.

[Ari Melber]

Thank you so much.

[Rachel Maddow]

And coming up, this is the map Donald Trump hates right now. This is the map Donald Trump does not want you to see right now because tomorrow this map is going to turn into real people and real protests against him and his policies. I've got some thoughts about all of it. I'm going to talk to one of the no Kings Day organizers when we come back. The protests have spread now to 16 cities across the U.S. if this turns.

[Donald Trump]

In, do I believe you? I don't think so.

[Rachel Maddow]

Well, I got that from the Fox News brain room. That was President Trump on the red carpet before seeing Les Mis at the Kennedy center earlier this week. And yes, that is the thing that actually happened. He's sending ice into the streets. He's politicizing the military. And he figured why not put on some black tie clothes, head out to a showing of Les Mis. That aside, Trump doesn't seem to want to believe that this week has been filled with protests against him that are popping up all across the country, even though the person who was telling him that fact was from his beloved favorite news source, Fox News. But still, to him, it's all fake. Fake people, fake protests, fake news. He just cannot handle what's happening right now. So that moment was from Wednesday, and on that very same day, we got this new polling from quinnipiac showing that 54% of Americans disapprove of the way Trump is handling his job as president. That's 16 points underwater. Then yesterday, we got new polling from the AP, and the AP shows 60% of Americans disapprove of the way Trump is handling his job as president. That's 21% underwater. And when people are polled on specific topics like the economy or immigration, Trump is not doing much better. As Newsweek correctly put it yesterday, donald Trump's approval rating is underwater on every issue. But rather than accept that the way he is governing is deeply, deeply unpopular, rather than accept that people are taking to the streets to protest his policies, Trump and his allies want you, want you not to believe what you are literally seeing with your own eyes.

[Donald Trump]

These are paid insurrectionists. These are paid troublemakers. They get money.

[Rachel Maddow]

These aren't spontaneous at all. They're about as authentic as Astroturf.

[General Paul Eaton]

They are bought and paid for. Flash mobs.

[Rachel Maddow]

This is something that the Department of Justice and the FBI is looking into. Who is funding these protesters? We've seen, you know, the ads put up on Craigslist offering people thousands of dollars a week.

[Donald Trump]

They're paid. They're professionals. They're insurrectionists. They're troublemakers. They're all of those things. But I believe they're paid.

[Rachel Maddow]

Okay? I mean, they have offered every possible explanation other than the truth, which is that people are pissed. They're pissed off. Which is why all week, all across the country, we have seen massive protest after massive protest, people going out in the street to voice their dissent against Trump. And every protest you see on your screen right now is from a different city. All of them are just from the past week. And contrary to the lies Trump and his allies are peddling, all of these protests are organic. I mean, even if somebody wanted to, could they pay all these people? What exactly is that secret pot of money? Where is it coming from? How many Craigslist posts would this actually require? I mean, give me a break. Again, every box on your screen right now is from a different city. Every one of these protests from the past week. We haven't even seen the big one yet. Tomorrow is what is being billed as no Kings Day. There are more than 2,000 no Kings Day protests planned all across the country. I wonder how this secret anti Trump cabal plans to pay everybody at all of those times. We'll have to see one of the organizers of that protest, the Indivisible Projects, Ezra Levin. Levin joins me next. There's one place in the country we are not expecting a massive Protest tomorrow. Washington, D.C. right here in Washington D.C. and this is notable because usually D.C. is kind of the heart of national protests. But tomorrow, because of Trump's military 79th birthday vanity parade, the organizers of the nationwide no Kings protest have told people to kind of steer clear. The organizers write, quote, instead of allowing his birthday parade to be the center of gravity, we will make action elsewhere. Everywhere else, the story of America that day, people coming together in communities across the country to reject strongman politics and corruption. For that reason, no Kings is not hosting an event in Washington D.C. instead, there are more than 2,000 no Kings protests planned all across the country tomorrow, maybe even more with the flagship protest planned for Philadelphia. And joining me now from Philadelphia, where the big one is being held, one of the many big ones is Ezra Levin, co founder of the Indivisible Projects and one of the organizers of tomorrow's protest. Thank you so much for joining me tonight. I want you to get a good night of sleep. Tomorrow is a very big day. But I wanted to start, I mean, tomorrow's obviously gonna be a very big protest day. We just showed the map to everybody out there. But in the past week, Trump has given people, it feels to me like a lot more reasons to protest, even though part of his objective was quelling the protests, I suppose, ironically. Do you have a sense of how many of the protests planned for tomorrow are recent additions or even just the additions of people who have reached out and expressed an interest in joining that maybe a week ago wouldn't have thought to?

[Ad Voice]

Yeah. Look, Jen, what's clear is Trump is overreached. He is overplaying his hand. What he is doing in la, the chaos, he is escalating all over the country. What it is doing is driving a lot of people who previously were not paying super close attention to look up and ask a basic question, what can I do right now? So we have seen hundreds of new events all across the country be added to that map that you showed. I can give you the precise number that we're at at right now. 2,169 individual events. These are led by normal everyday people. These are teachers and IT technicians and nurses and students and fellow community members who are taking it upon themselves to lead these peaceful protests all around the country. To say no to this would be monarchical government that Trump is proposing. His overreach right now is going to be met with some serious backlash. And look, on Flag Day, I can't think of something that would be more quintessentially American than standing up peacefully but forcefully in defense of our constitutional rights. It's going to be a sight to see.

[Rachel Maddow]

Absolutely. And I'm sure, I mean, we had Congressman Gomez on the other night and he showed me some pictures of his son at a protest. And you and I have talked about how sometimes the perceptions of protests are that it is not families, it's not seniors. And that is often what it is. People with their kids, people who are seniors. I was telling you about my dad and his community. I'm sure there are people, though, who are sitting at home watching this right now who are thinking, I've never attended a protest. That's not, I'm mad at what Trump is doing, but I'm not sure this is for me. What do you tell them?

[Ad Voice]

Here's what I would tell you. This is for you. And this isn't our first rodeo. So on April 5, we held the hands off protests all around the world. There were 1300 of them. 3.5 million people showed up. That was in just about every community in the country. It was at the time the single largest protest we had seen in the Trump era. Now, this Saturday, tomorrow, coming up, we have more than 2,000 events all around the world. That means there are going to be millions of people who have not attended a protest yet this year, many of whom have never attended a protest before. Let me tell you, the water is warm. Welcome in. If you saw the hands off protests, what you saw were people bringing their kids or their moms or their grandmas, people bringing their pets. It was joyful, it was boisterous, it was powerful. People were dancing, they were laughing, there were fun signs, there was chanting. It was a sense of community and it was powerful. It fed this growing opposition to autocratic breakthrough that we're experiencing. And what we know from the experts in authoritarianism is that when you have a would be autocrat attacking the pillars of democracy, businesses and media institutions and nonprofits and universities and law firms, what you need in that moment is the people being the bulwark of democracy. So what we're seeing right now is everyday non professional politician people saying, I guess I've got to stand up. So if you're new to this welcome, we need you. And there's a place for you nearby at your local no Kings Day protest.

[Rachel Maddow]

Really quickly before I let you go. And tomorrow's a huge day. What come, what comes after tomorrow?

[Ad Voice]

Well, one thing we need to understand is any march, any day of protest, that is a tactic. That is a tactic. We're not going to wake up on Sunday and suddenly Donald Trump isn't a threat to democracy. We're not going to wake up and have democracy be safeguarded. This is an opportunity to send a very clear message that democracy, democracy is going to reassert itself. And that's a message not to Donald Trump. He's the least important figure tomorrow. That's a message to the marginal figures in our democracy, whether they're they're or their institutions who are trying to decide how to behave today. And they need to know that the people are going to reassert democracy. But that's not just on Saturday. Real success from no Kings Day is not going to be measured just by the narrative we set on Saturday. It's going to be measured by the number of people who then plug in to their own local community and keep on organizing. So we're holding a follow up call with all participants of no Kings Day Monday night at 8pm they can go to that and then watch MSNBC right afterwards and learn about how we can continue plugging in to this effort to safeguard our democracy. Saturday is an inflection point. It's not an end point. We're going to keep on organizing beyond then.

[Rachel Maddow]

Ezra, we'll keep talking about it here. Thank you so much for joining me. Go get, go to bed now is what I would tell you. You have a huge day. Thank you again. And coming up, a weather report that I think you're really going to want to hear. We'll be right back. Before we go, I have a quick psa. A week from Sunday marks the beginning of National Lightning Safety Awareness Week. Mark your calendars. The National Weather Service created this annual event to, I guess raise awareness of the dangers of thunderstorms and share best practices on what to do if you happen to find yourself in the middle of one. They've made a little bit of a catchy phrase. It goes like this when thunder roars, go indoors, kind of like stop, drop and roll, but for lightning instead of fire. And it's important public safety initiatives like these that are under threat as Trump slashes the federal agencies in charge of predicting and preparing for severe weather. But for now, they're working with what they have. Well, the reason I'm telling you this tonight is because it might just come in handy tomorrow, especially if you find yourself in Washington, D.C. for, say, Trump's big military parade slash birthday bash. That's because the forecast is looking quite stormy. There's an 80 to 90% chance of rain during the afternoon, and thunderstorms are expected to begin around 3 to 4pm Just as Trump's birthday bash is set to officially begin. What a shame. Some rain could impact some of the no Kings protests that are also happening around the country tomorrow. But luckily for many cities like Los Angeles, the forecast is nothing but sunny skies when the sun is bright. Join the fight. Is that a thing? We'll have to get the National Weather Service's help on that one. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.

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