← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump humiliated by UN escalator; Anatomy of a Donald Trump rage cycle
00:40:22
Donald Trump managed to take it personally when an escalator at the UN General Assembly stopped working while he was on it. Jen Psaki takes the opportunity to observe another instance of the "Donald Trump rage cycle," and points out that the thin-skinned president's petty tyrades are less intimidating the more people learn to stand up to him.
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- [00:03]
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- [01:00]
Jen Psaki
Let's go. Lots going on tonight. Tonight, Jimmy Kimmel will make his return to late night television after what turned out to be a pretty brief suspension from the air, thanks in large part to the activism from a lot of people in the country, a lot of people like you. We're going to talk with the lone Democratic appointee on the FCC Commission, Anna Gomez, about what's next. I have a lot of questions for her. And I'm going to be joined by legendary director Rob Reiner about the pressure campaign that helped get Kimmel back on the air. And as we count down to Kimmel's responses tonight, response tonight, I'm going to be watching. You may be as well if you can stay up that late. I promise you this clip of Donald Trump addressing the United nations during his first term tells us a lot about the moment we find ourselves in.
- [01:44]
Rob Reiner
In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. America's so true. Didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay.
- [02:07]
Jen Psaki
Okay, so that was Donald Trump being laughed at while standing on the world stage less than two years into his first term. It's definitely not the reaction that any world leader is hoping for when addressing the United Nations. Actually a pretty big speech that US Leaders give. But it was especially concerning for Donald Trump, a man so thin skinned and so obsessed completely with his self image that he rarely lets any slate go unanswered, even when it's against his interest. And so today, imagine what was going through his head when he was entering the United nations and this happened. Okay, so Trump passed through the security barricades. He then walked up to the escalator and stepped onto it with the first lady, at which point, and you'll see in a second, okay, there it is. The escalator abruptly stopped, leaving Trump flummoxed. For a few seconds, you can see the first lady just walking up the stairs as one normal person does. He ultimately decided to just walk up the immobile staircase himself. Now, basically, everyone who has ever used an escalator ever has had some version of this exact same experience. Sometimes escalators malfunction and you are left to just treat them like a regular staircase. Not a big deal. It happens. But for Donald Trump, the brief inconvenience of having to walk up a non working escalator while on camera was enough to provoke outrage on the world stage. I mean, there are a lot of topics Trump could have had on his mind a lot today, a lot he could have talked about Syria, Russia, Ukraine, the Middle East, Iran, name more than those. And yet here was Donald Trump moments later addressing the United Nations General Assembly.
- [03:47]
Rob Reiner
All I got from the United nations was an escalator that on the way up stopped right in the middle and then a teleprompter that didn't work. These are the two things I got from the United Nations. A bad escalator and a bad teleprompter. Frankly, looking at the building and getting stuck on the escalator, they still haven't finished the job.
- [04:10]
Jen Psaki
Okay, so that's real. That was the President of the United States lashing out at an assembled gathering of world leaders because the escalator apparently didn't show him enough respect. It was, to say the least, a ridiculous thing to bring up over and over again. We showed you a couple of examples of that in a speech the United Nations. But the escalator crisis, believe it or not, it did not end there. Just a few hours after that speech, White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt posted on X quote, if someone at the UN intentionally stopped the escalator as the President and First lady were stepping on, they need to be fired and investigated immediately. I tried to do my best voice there. Yes, that is the White House press secretary. I know what that job is. That's not a normal thing to post calling for an investigation into the world's largest intergovernmental organization because an escalator stopped working. Now, for what it's worth, I promise you this story keeps getting better. Tonight, the Associated Press reports that the UN understands that someone from the President's party who ran ahead of him inadvertently triggered the stop mechanism of on the escalator I just love that detail. Okay, case closed. I guess the case should be closed. We should all move on. Here's the thing, though. That brief saga of Trump and the UN Escalator is sort of a perfect encapsulation of what I like to call the Donald Trump rage cycle. And this is why we want to talk about it. I mean, first Trump decides he feels slighted by someone or something like an escalator. It can be something as small as a minor technical malfunction, clearly. Then he lashes out. He responds by doing or something ridiculous like what he did today in his UN Speech. And in the process, he calls even more attention to whatever has bruised his fragile ego. I mean, would we really still be talking about a broken escalator if Trump had just walked up the stairs and moved on with his day? Probably not. And then finally, Trump and his administration threatened to use the full force of the federal government to get payback, either through bogus investigations or troop mobilizations or threats from the fcc, all to avenge the dear Leader. We've seen this cycle over and over again. This is what it is like to live in a country run by an insecure authoritarian Billy. This is what it's like. And we are all too familiar with it by now. We are watching it happen again with the investigation into New York Attorney General Letitia James. I mean, first, Letitia James secures a civil fraud judgment against Trump for rampant legit fraud in his businesses. Trump again lashes out publicly in ridiculous ways, yelling at his Attorney General on social media for the entire world to see and demanding that his perceived enemies be prosecuted. All of which culminates in the Trump administration forcing a career prosecutor out of office, one whom they themselves appointed just so that Trump can install an unqualified insurance lawyer to do his bidding and break charges against his enemies. That happened just last week. And yes, we saw a similar dynamic play out with the suspension of late night comedian Jimmy Kimmel. I mean, first, Trump gets offended by the kind of late night comedy ribbing every American president has faced for the past half a century, and he has given them more fodder than any president in the last half a century. Then Trump lashes out, letting the whole world know how ridiculously fragile he really is. And finally, Trump's hand picked FCC lackey goes out and starts making veiled threats to broadcasters who then get scared enough to pull Kimmel off the air. There. It's the same story over and over again in just different industries and fields. And every time, it starts out feeling ridiculous and ends up feeling A bit terrifying. But it does not have to end that way because as I said tonight, late night host Jimmy Kimmel is back on the air after a six day standoff with ABC Disney over his abrupt hiatus. And a big part of the reason Jimmy Kimmel is back on the air is because people across the country refused to let themselves be cowed into submission by Donald Trump's threats. People showed up and protested outside of Disney headquarters, urging them to stand up to this administration. Calls poured out for people to cancel their subscriptions to Disney owned streaming services and stop going to Disney owned theme parks. Some Disney stars got in on the action supporting the nascent boycott movement. Even some Trump allies started criticizing his actions. Just listen to podcaster and comedian Joe Rogan react to this story.
- [08:31]
Rob Reiner
I definitely don't think that the government should be involved ever in dictating what a comedian can or cannot say in a monologue.
- [08:38]
Jen Psaki
That's crazy.
- [08:41]
Rob Reiner
Now the problem is the companies, if they're being pressured by the government. So if that's real and if people on the right are like, yeah, go get them, oh my God, you're crazy. You're crazy for supporting this.
- [08:58]
Jen Psaki
Now, in addition to all of that, Kimmel's fellow late night comedians stuck their own necks out to not just defend Jimmy Kimmel, but also explain to their corporate parent companies exactly what is at stake. Like this moment from comedian John Oliver.
- [09:12]
Miles Taylor
If we've learned nothing else from this administration's second term so far, and I don't think we have, is that giving the bully your lunch money doesn't make him go away. It just makes him come back hungrier each time. They are never going to stop.
- [09:27]
Rob Reiner
They've literally said that openly.
- [09:31]
Jen Psaki
That is a pretty solid encapsulation of what every company, university, law firm, media organization should be thinking about right now. When you give the bully your lunch money, he comes back. So after nearly a week of that kind of pushback, the executives at Disney finally came to their senses about Donald Trump. They realized that despite his office and despite his threats, Trump is not as big and powerful as he thinks he is. At least not compared to the throngs of people out there pushing back now. This story is not over. None of these stories are really completely over at all. Media conglomerates Sinclair and Nexter are still refusing to air Kimmel's show on the ABC stations they own, setting up the next battle over free expression in this country. But Trump's threats do not feel as intimidating as they did last week because people stood up and they fought back. When Trump tried to take things from ridiculous to terrifying. When he tried to thump his chest and make himself seem big, people stood up and treated him like the small, weak and petty bully that he is. And in this moment, talking to the people who have been targeted and who are fighting back is one of the most instructive things we can do. At least I find it incredibly instructive. One of Trump's earliest targets for retribution in this administration was a former government official named Miles Taylor. Now, during the first Trump administration, Taylor worked as deputy Chief of Staff in the Department of Homeland Security, a very important department where he saw Trump's erratic behavior in office close up. In 2018, Miles Taylor published an anonymous op ed in the New York Times telling the world how dedicated public servants like himself were working to limit the damage Trump was causing each day. Seven years later, after being reelected for a second term, Trump could have, I mean, he could have just forgotten about that op ed and the embarrassment it caused him. He was reelected. He was sitting in the Oval Office. But of course, he did not. Trump did what he always does. He, he held onto a petty grudge. This time leveraging the power of the presidency against Taylor by ordering the Justice Department to investigate him. Yesterday, Miles Taylor offered some advice to others like him. Facing Trump's ire, he wrote on his substack quote, trump and his team are hunting for crimes, real or imagined. I know his enforcers are continuing to comb through my own life, background and communications, perhaps preparing raids. So what do we do? What should anyone in Trump's crosshairs do, knowing the nation's chief executive is so hell bent on their demise? I have a one word plan. It's simple. I would humbly submit that it should be adopted by any individual or institution on the receiving end of Donald Trump's petulant burst of authoritarian fury. Defiance. I will defy this small and petty man until he is gone. And I will dedicate myself to undoing what he's done to this country. To others on Trump's enemies list, I say if we all embrace defiance, his plan will backfire spectacularly. Instead of intimidating his critics, he will inspire them and unite them into the fiercest opposition he's ever faced. There's more to that. Myles Taylor joins me here in just 90 seconds, as promised. Joining me now is Myles Taylor. Back in June, Trump ordered an investigation into Taylor, accusing him of treason for speaking out about what he witnessed during Trump's first term. Since then, Miles Taylor has continued to speak out. We've spoken with him on the show before and pushed back, and he's urging others to do the same. I read a big chunk of your substack. I encourage anybody to read it. I'm sure we can repost it as well. I just talked about some of the defiance that we are seeing. You talked about some of the defiance we were seeing and how important it is. What do you think defiance looks like moving forward? I ask you this because I think it's important for people to understand this is a very long fight and there are wins, but there's a long fight ahead. So what does that look like?
- [13:21]
Miles Taylor
Well, I mean, Janet, it's not just the idea of continuing to speak out that's very important. It's really, really important for people when they are the target of presidential revenge, not to retreat. And I'm not going to confess that from the moment that this executive order was issued in April that my wife and I were ready to go back and fight Donald Trump again. We were exhausted from the last go round. But ultimately we realized it was very, very important to continue to speak out. But it's not just about that. It's about turning that act of intimidation into an act of resistance. And that means not just fearing what's coming next, embracing yourself. It means actively staying out there and organizing and creating strength in numbers. And that's very, very important. And, you know, we know that all too well in family, they've tried to take everything from us. My job, my financial security, my safety. But we're not going to let them take our country away from us. But that means we have to help organize other people into this fight. So if you think about something like Disney, what we needed to see at Disney and ABC was the line. People that work on the Jimmy Kimmel show, other talent that work in the network. We need to see the people in the newsroom standing up and pressuring leadership. And we saw some of that on time delay. We're going to get better and better at this, Jen, as time goes on, where these institutions and the people in the institutions, not the leadership, the people in these institutions will stand up sooner to let their leaders know they don't want to capitulate.
- [14:53]
Jen Psaki
What do you think for people out there who, you know, they're happy Jimmy Kimmel's going to be back on tonight. Sinclair and nextar still are not airing on a number of their affiliates this show. So there's still ongoing speaking out and activism that needs to happen. When you say, what do you think that looks like for people within the company and for people Outside who want to be active.
- [15:15]
Miles Taylor
I mean, look, it really starts with folks voicing their concerns on the inside. And, you know, let me give you an example. Harvard. I keep talking to people at Harvard, students, faculty, alumni. They are very, very worried that their leadership team is about to send the institution down the river, cut a deal with the Trump administration, pay a fine and move on. But guess what? Those people at the university, whose jobs, by the way, whose livelihoods depend on that university, do not want the university to settle. They are ready to sacrifice, and they want a fight. But it means they need to let the leadership team at Harvard know that frequently. Because, look, you can't blame some of these leaders, whether it's the law firms or the educational institutions, for thinking their people just want them to cut deals to get stability. But when people are in a moment of crisis, they want to sacrifice. They're ready to sacrifice. I mean, Jen, you remember this after 9 11, when George W. Bush got criticized for saying that people should go out and shop. That's how they should sacrifice for America. No, the American people really wanted to step up. They were ready for George W. Bush to double their taxes. So what you need is people going and telling their institutional leaders, I am ready to sacrifice so that we don't have to capitulate. I am ready to stand up and stand with you leadership team, knowing that it will be hard. It's important to send that signal first before we get to the point where employees have to be protesting bad decisions from management to capitulate to a wayward White House.
- [16:48]
Jen Psaki
You have such a unique perspective. You're not the only one, unfortunately, because he's targeted so many people who've worked for him in the past. But where you have thought a lot about his thinking, you've seen up front Trump's thinking, but you also have been the subject of his ire. And the Washington Post had this story, too. I don't know if you saw it, but it noted that some of the objects of Trump's ire, of course, like Lisa Cook and Adam Schiff, have had to hire hefty legal teams to defend themselves, and you may be among them as well. And that's the type of. That's kind of a type of punishment within itself. Do you think that Trump doesn't necessarily care whether the prosecutions of his political enemies are successful? A lot of them are not. They're baseless, most of them. All of them are at this point. He just wants these court battles to kind of harm people financially and reputationally. But what do you think that's kind of my theory?
- [17:36]
Rob Reiner
Yeah.
- [17:36]
Miles Taylor
I mean, look, I'm not gonna lie about that. It's been catastrophic to our personal lives, but that's because we were in the earlier wave. The more and more people who stand up sooner make it less costly for the people down the line. That's why it's so important. But to your point, Jen, about what Donald Trump is doing, I mean, look, I will call time of death on the rule of law this Saturday, September 20th at 6:44pm that's when Donald Trump put out this message. That was Watergate on steroids, on truth social media, and he crossed the line. He basically issued an illegal order telling the attorney General to investigate people without evidence and to put them behind bars. And no one did anything to stop him. Now, there's two pathways here, and one of them is, you know, not Donald Trump reforming. That's not going to happen. But there's people under him who have to execute these orders. So to his henchmen, I would say this. Donald Trump just told you to do something illegal. He told you to do something unconstitutional. It's never too late to do the right thing.
- [18:35]
Rob Reiner
You could push back.
- [18:36]
Miles Taylor
You could become whistleblowers. You could protect the Constitution. Now, I'm under no illusion that a lot of those people will not do that. And so if they take the second path, and I would say this, Jen, if they don't do the right thing, we are watching, there will be accountability on the other side. When the rule of law is restored, Trump will not be there to save them. He may wrap himself in presidential immunity, but like a mob boss, he's promising to protect them, but he won't ultimately do that in the end. So, look, those lieutenants who are responsible for executing those orders, Jen, they are the ones that need to know this is a time of choosing because America has crossed over that line.
- [19:16]
Jen Psaki
Miles Taylor, I know you say it's not just about speaking out, but that's a big part of it. You're very courageous to continue to do so. Thank you so much for being here with me tonight. Really appreciate it.
- [19:25]
Miles Taylor
Thanks, my friend.
- [19:26]
Jen Psaki
Okay, coming up, we're taking a quick break. Jimmy Kimmel's back, but not everybody will be able to watch him. The FCC's lone Democratic appointee joins me here at the table to talk about why, when we come back.
- [19:46]
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- [20:14]
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- [20:41]
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- [20:46]
Jen Psaki
You know, the ones that fit you.
- [20:47]
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- [21:19]
Jen Psaki
So tonight, Jimmy Kimmel returned to ABC after being abruptly suspended last week by the network and its parent company, Disney. But even though Kimmel's coming back, depending on where you live, you may not be able to watch it. And this is some people have been asking me questions about this all day on social media. Media groups like nexstar and Sinclair, two corporations that together own more than a quarter of the nation's ABC affiliate stations and were the first to pull Kimmel from their airwaves, are still refusing to air the show. When nexstar and Sinclair pulled Kimmel off there, both corporations said they were doing it for the communities they serve and for the, quote, public interest, which we're going to discuss in a moment, too. Sure. But there look to be other interests involved, too. I mean, after all, Sinclair is one of the largest conservative media empires in the country. And Nexstar just so happens to have a $6.2 billion merger currently awaiting government approval. Both companies are regulated by the Federal Communications Commission. Last week, when Trump's FCC chair said ABC, ABC's affiliate, should Yank Kimmel off the air, Sinclair and Nexstar did just that within hours. Joining me now is FCC Commissioner Ana Gomez, the agency's sole Democratic appointee, who's been helping all of us understand for days now what this all means. So let me just start with the news Today I reference because as I said, people have been asking me this question. Family members, friends, like, what if it's not playing? I mean, one of the affiliates here in D.C. isn't going to be airing Jimmy Kimmel. So Sinclair and Next are owned. Affiliates are essentially boycotting his return. Or there's a lot of ways to describe it. What does that tell us?
- [22:48]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
So your opener has it exactly right. What we have is two corporate behemoths that are imposing their values upon the local affiliates. And these local affiliates are caught in the middle. So what you are seeing is these companies who are beholden to this administration and who are, as you noted, seeking approval for transactions. They are asking the FCC to lightenlessen the regulations, the ownership regulations, so that they can in fact get even bigger. And they're asking the FCC to back their efforts to change the technology that they use for broadcasting, which they think is going to really make them a lot of money. So they are putting their corporate interests above the public interest and certainly not the communities that they are serving, because this is a national imposition of their views, not something that's being led by the community.
- [23:46]
Jen Psaki
So what should people who feel frustrated, they want to be able to turn on their local station and see Jimmy Kimmel, or they're worried that other things they like might not appear on the air anymore? What should they be doing?
- [23:59]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
Well, what we saw with Disney was when people spoke out, Disney actually did listen. And there was a great pushback from people. And that is what we need today is for every person to speak up and push back, because they do eventually listen if it affects their bottom line.
- [24:20]
Jen Psaki
Are there repercussions from the FCC standpoint for these conglomerates not airing something like Jimmy Kimmel's show, or it's just their choice and that it's outside of kind of what federal law or what the FCC can do.
- [24:35]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
Yes, it is their choice. It is their business decision, and it's actually a contractual issue between them and Disney. Forced speech is also a violation of the Constitution. So while we do require broadcasters to broadcast in the public interest, we do not delve into content, which is why the threats against Disney and the affiliates were so serious.
- [24:59]
Jen Psaki
Nexstar is, and you referenced this, and I referenced this in the opening, is currently trying to merge with Tegna. And this would be a 6.2 billion doll deal, as I already mentioned, it would need approval and also some rule changes, as I understand it, given the larger percentage that they would own, as if they were merged together. You referenced this, but how Much of a driver do you think that is, as you look at this, for nexstar, in terms of trying to appease the Trump administration?
- [25:27]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
Well, this is a very big issue. Not only would if they brought this transaction before the fcc, would they need a waiver of some of our existing rules, it would actually be contrary to the statute. So they really want to appease this administration in order to get them to change the rules so that they can get even bigger.
- [25:51]
Jen Psaki
Because right now, a company can only own a certain percentage of affiliates. Right. So 30 is it, 38%.
- [25:58]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
They can only reach 39%.
- [25:59]
Jen Psaki
39%. And this would bring it up to 80% almost. So they need that rule too be changed.
- [26:05]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
Yes. Well, it's actually by statute.
- [26:07]
Jen Psaki
By statute. Okay. So they need the statute to be changed.
- [26:10]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
They need the statute to be changed. The FCC actually tried to lift that cap, and Congress did not like that. And so it came back and said, no, no, no, you are going to set that cap at 39%. So I don't believe the FCC has any discretion to lift that cap. But they are making the argument that the FCC does in fact have, that.
- [26:33]
Jen Psaki
You'Ve been speaking out fearlessly, tirelessly. I mean, and helping people understand this. Do you think there's more they could do ahead? I mean, are you preparing for them to try to do this, to happen with other affiliates, other media conglomerates? Like this isn't the end, right?
- [26:52]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
I worry about this because I have been on a nationwide tour, First Amendment tour, to draw attention to the fact that this administration is using all of its levers of power to censor and control. And so I do worry that you are going to continue to see pressure by this administration to get broadcasters to alter their news editorial decisions and even their content decisions, like they did with Jimmy Kimmel. Because this administration cannot tolerate any kind of criticism. It simply wants broadcasters to broadcast in the way that it wants it to, and it's trying to impose its ideology on everyone. And that's the danger of what we're seeing here with this media consolidation is what we lose is that rich diversity of viewpoints that give us the various perspectives on matters. And instead, what they are doing is they are influencing people into one ideology.
- [27:49]
Jen Psaki
Ana Gomez, I'm so grateful that you were here. You're the FCC commissioner, of course I should give you your formal title. But thank you so much for taking the time and for being out there so tirelessly helping people understand what's going on here and what questions they should be asking. Appreciate it.
- [28:01]
FCC Commissioner Anna Gomez
Thank you.
- [28:02]
Jen Psaki
When we come back, Jimmy Kimmel draws inspiration for this moment of resistance to the Trump administration from broadcasting legend Norman Lear. Director Rob Reiner joins me for more on that just ahead.
- [28:22]
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- [28:49]
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- [28:52]
Jen Psaki
You know, the ones that fit you.
- [28:53]
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- [29:17]
Jen Psaki
At Marisa's.com come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you, and then definitely brag about it later because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or@dsw.com Let us surprise you. Ahead of his return to television tonight, Jimmy Kimmel took to Instagram for the first time since the news of his show's suspension last week. He posted a photo of himself with the late television legend Norman Lear captioned missing this guy. Today, Lear is, of course, known for creating some of the 20th century's most groundbreaking and beloved sitcoms like all in the Family, Maude, Good Times and the Jeffersons. And he often used those shows as vehicles to tackle controversial social issues at the time bring conversations around topics like racism, abortion and homophobia into living rooms across America. Needless to say, not everyone liked that, including then Republican President Richard Nixon, who put Norman Lear on his infamous enemies list and who was caught on tape ranting about the moral degeneracy, as he called it, of an episode of all in the family. Now, 50 years later, Kimmel is clearly looking to Lear's legacy as he and the rest of the country attempt to navigate this new moment of media intimidation in Donald Trump's America and with it, the available paths of resistance of which there are many. Joining me now is the perfect person to talk about this. I mean, literally. Rob Reiner starred on all in the Family, called Norman Lear his second father, and calls Jimmy Kimmel a friend. He's now an activist and a film director whose film Spinal Tap 2 the End continues, is in theaters now. It is such a pleasure to be talking to you. Thank you for joining me this evening.
- [31:17]
Rob Reiner
Thanks for having me.
- [31:18]
Jen Psaki
Jen, I just wanted to start, I just mentioned, I mean, you were one of the stars, of course, of Norman Lear's classic. I think everybody watching now, probably watching, watched that show, remembers that show, all in the Family reference, that photo that Jimmy Kimmel posted today. Do you. What do you think about that parallel that. That maybe Jimmy Kimmel is drawing to that period of time and what you all navigated on that show and the reaction?
- [31:43]
Rob Reiner
Yeah, I mean, you know, we are wrestling with the same issues today that we did back then. And Norman, you know, he has. He stood for the Constitution, he stood for our First Amendment rights. He started People for the American Way to talk about this separation of church and state, which is mentioned three times in the Constitution. And so it's appropriate that Jimmy Kimmel would. And by the way, Jimmy Kimmel produced a reboot. I guess it was a reboot of one of the all in Family episodes. And he feels very close to Norman, as I did. Like you said, he was a second father to me. So we're now in a place where we are really wrestling whether or not we're going to have a Constitution, whether or not we're going to have the American form of democracy. And the First Amendment is right at the core of it.
- [32:43]
Jen Psaki
One of the things, I talked about this a little bit last week, but authoritarian leaders, dictators, like to go after comedians and people in entertainment and squash their ability to make fun of politicians or speak about issues that are present in the day. What do you think? What kind of advice do you think Norman Lear would give to creative people like Jimmy Kimmel or others who may be targeted like that today?
- [33:12]
Rob Reiner
Keep doing what you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing. I mean, we all have to. You know, comedians are easy targets. I mean, if you, if you're an authoritarian and you want to wipe somebody out, look how quickly they were able to wipe Jimmy out. And, and obviously I applaud ABC for bringing him back. And even though they are going to lose, you know, upwards of 25, 30% of their affiliates, it's. It's laudable that they're willing to bring Jimmy back. But you have to stick to your guns. You have to say what you feel. And, and the federal government has no place in dictating what a comedian can or cannot say. But this moment that we're in right now, it goes way beyond Jimmy Kimmel. It goes way beyond knocking comedians off the air. This is directly out of the authoritarian playbook. Control the media. Do whatever you can to control the media so that only your message is getting out. If you look at authoritarians across the globe, that's exactly what they do. So if you want to control Nextar or Sinclair or Fox News, whatever, and you can all of a sudden consume it all, you know, subsume it all, then you have the only platform. You know, they always talk about the presidency as being the bully pulpit. Well, if the bully pulpit is, if you own everything, then it's, it's impossible for people to fight back. So I'm working with a number of other people right now and we're starting to galvanize and put people together to start pushing back on this. If we don't, you know, Eugen and everybody else that broadcasts our point of view is going to be lost. And that happens very quickly. We see it happening very quickly. It's more than a slippery slope. This thing is, is barreling downhill. And we have, I would say, a year, a year to be able to correct this and see whether or not our 250 year experiment continues to survive. And we'll find out. But we need everybody to push back, not just comedians. Everybody needs to push back.
- [35:32]
Jen Psaki
It's such an important point. This is much bigger, Jim, then Jimmy Campbell. It's much bigger than targeting creative artists and creative voices. Tell us more about what you've been talking to people about and what you're planning. I think people are looking for some inspiration out there. What is that going to look like?
- [35:48]
Rob Reiner
Well, I'm hoping, and we're organizing our community and that's one thing we can do. And it happened in the 50s when there was McCarthyism. We saw the community, they show up as Hollywood community organizing to, to push back against McCarthyism. And yes, we will be part of that, but it won't work if it's just us because, you know, it's easy to dismiss the show business community, your libtards and you know, and all of that. But if we can be part of a bigger effort, you know, and you know about this, Jen, you, you worked in the, you know, in a presidential administration, you need a communication war room that brings in the churches, that brings in businesses and universities and law firms and the medical community. You need everybody to come together to say, we're not going to take this. We believe in the rule of law. We believe in the Constitution, and we believe in this wonderful experiment that started 250 years ago. And if we all band together, there are more people that honor the Constitution and the First Amendment than there are those who would destroy it.
- [37:06]
Jen Psaki
That is a perfect place to end. Trump may have the power of the Oval Office. He does not have all the power of the country. And there's a lot of power out there in people's voices. We just saw that over the last week. Rob Reiner, it was a true pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.
- [37:21]
Rob Reiner
Thanks for having me.
- [37:23]
Jen Psaki
Okay, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Tom Homan and his bag full of cash. Of course, we're going to talk about that. Just the tip of the iceberg. More on that when we come back. So this weekend, MSNBC reporters Carol Leonig and Kinselinian got a gargantuan scoop. Trump's border czar, Tom Homan was caught on tape accepting $50,000 in cash after indicating he could help businessmen secure potentially lucrative government contracts from the Trump administration. That was the promise. Not only the businessmen weren't actually businessmen, they were, of course, undercover FBI agents. Again, just an incredible swoop they got. This reporting is based on conversations with multiple people familiar with the probe, as well as internal documents reviewed by msnbc. This undercover operation happened last September, so a year ago. It took place before Trump even won reelection. And at the time, the FBI had been investigating someone else who claimed that Homan was soliciting payments in exchange for awarding government contracts if Trump won the election. So FBI agents hid cameras and posed as businessmen and recorded Homan accepting $50,000 in cash from them. Can't make it up. Now, according to sources familiar with the matter, because the cash grab happened before the election and before Homan was actually a government official. The FBI and Justice Department sat on that recording and waited to see if he would try to hold up his end of the bargain once in office. But after Trump became president, his Justice Department shut the investigation down, claiming that despite the recording, they, quote, found no credible evidence of any criminal wrongdoing. Okay. Now, for its part, the White House has called the investigation blatantly political. Homan himself did not respond to requests for comments from MSNBC about the original story. But since MSNBC published that scoop, the reporting has been matched in advance by outlets like the New York Times and Reuters and the Washington Post, which is Quite dulling. Those outlets added fun little pieces of color, too. Like how the $50,000 in cash was handed over in a bag from the fast food chain Kava. Okay. And more serious details of two, like this one from the New York Times. That paper reports that law enforcement notified the incoming Trump administration about all of this and they chose to appoint Homan anyway. No surprise. Now, all weekend, the White House has insisted that Homan has not been involved with awarding any government contracts since his appointment. Yesterday afternoon, the White House just flat out denied Homan even ever took the money. Ever even took it. And then last night on Fox News, Homan himself addressed the allegations.
- [39:56]
Miles Taylor
That story is out there.
- [39:58]
Jen Psaki
And I imagine you want to respond to that.
- [40:02]
Rob Reiner
Absolutely.
- [40:02]
Miles Taylor
Look, I did nothing criminal.
- [40:04]
Rob Reiner
I did nothing illegal. And there's hit piece after hit piece after hit piece. And I'm glad the FBI and DOJ came out and said, and, you know.
- [40:12]
Miles Taylor
Said that nothing illegal happened and nothing.
- [40:14]
Rob Reiner
You know, no criminal activity.
- [40:17]
Jen Psaki
Now, notice, Homan, at no point Denon is actually taking the cash. He just declared that nothing he did was criminal. He just says that Trump's Justice Department and Trump's FBI have cleared him. Nothing to see here, folks. Trump's guys say he's good. Why not just take the Trump administration's word for it? I mean, Lord, just look at their record on public corruption. Yesterday, Notice reported that under Trump, the team at the Justice Department that focused on fighting government corruption has gone from a team of 36 lawyers down to two lawyers. That's it. Just two lawyers plus a single paralegal. Certainly seems like Trump does not want anyone on the job actually investigating government corruption at all. And that fits a pattern we have been seeing for a while now, because back in January, Trump kicked off his new term by firing inspectors general at various government agencies. He ultimately fired or demoted 20 of them in total. Those are the people who are supposed to investigate corruption inside government agencies. No more need for them, I guess. In February, Trump fired the head of the agency that is supposed to protect government whistleblowers. No more whistles to blow, I suppose. Who needs them now? A few days after that, Trump paused Justice Department enforcement of bribery laws for US Companies overseas. Who needs those? And then in April, Trump's Justice Department disbanded the unit in charge of investigating cryptocurrency fraud. And that is a great example of Trump administration transparency. You see, this year has been the most lucrative year of Donald Trump's entire life. His net worth has nearly doubled since he won last year's election. And it's not hard to see why. I mean, last week, the New York Times reported that back in May, the ruling family of the UAE deposited $2 billion into the Trump family's crypto startup. Two weeks later, the White House agreed to allow the UAE access to hundreds of thousands of the world's most advanced and scarce computer chips, despite national security concerns for doing so. Now, I should say that representatives for both the White House and Trump's crypto company deny any connection between the two deals. But wouldn't it be worth looking deeper to see if there is a little bit of a quid pro quo? Quo. Pro. Quid pro quo there? Sorry. Well, now, thanks to Trump, the systems we used to have to investigate stuff like this that we've long had to really get to the truth, those systems are either gone or are a shell of their former selves. That brings me back to the beautiful simplicity of MSNBC's scoop about Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, and the $50,000 bag of cash and a kava bag. You see, Homan reportedly took that bag of cash and made that deal on tape, tape the FBI has and that Trump himself could order released at any time. So there isn't a ton of investigative work that needs to be done here, really, at all if the White House wants to deny that story. You know, Cash Patel also runs the FBI, so there's that. If that story is really all just some big misunderstanding out there, why not just release the tape? Sounds familiar, doesn't it? We'll be right back. Tonight, House Speaker Mike Johnson's job may be about to get worse unless things go catastrophically wrong for the Democratic candidate in a special election in Arizona. The congressional seat vacated by the late Democratic Congressman Raul Grijala back in March is expected to go to his daughter, Adelita Grijalva, who is also a Democrat. So that would shrink the current Republican majority from six seats to five, making Johnson's job of keeping his caucus under tight control just that much harder. But that's not the only negative outcome for the embattled Speaker. Right now, there is a discharge petition in the House. We've talked about it before. That needs just one more signature to unlock his special power, its special power to force a floor vote on a bill that would otherwise die in committee. Now, the bill in question would force a floor vote to compel the Department of Justice to release all of its Epstein files. So far, four Republicans have joined all Democrats to sign the petition. And the Democrat in today's special election has promised to sign it as well if she wins. So spare a little thought for little Mike Johnson tonight because barring a miracle, is about to have a very bad day. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [44:31]
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