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TRUMP IN SHEER PANIC: Report suggests Epstein 'secrets'; Republicans look for the exits
00:42:00
New reporting from the Wall Street Journal says that Donald Trump's message to Jeffrey Epstein on his 50th birthday suggested common interests and "wonderful" secrets between Trump and Epstein. Donald Trump has reacted with threats and outrage, and Republicans are scrambling for a place to hide.
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Nicole Wallace
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week Nicole speaks with legendary songwriter and music producer Jimmy Jam.
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Jimmy Jam
I treat it like a privilege to be able to do that, to be able to speak to people, to be able to help raise money, help raise awareness, but I get to do it from music.
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Nicole Wallace
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Unknown News Anchor
The Big Story Tonight the Wall Street Journal is out with new reporting about how Donald Trump sent Jeffrey Epstein a lewd letter for his 50th birthday. According to documents reviewed by the Journal, the letter bearing Trump's name contains several lines of typewritten text framed by the outline of a naked woman, a pair of small arcs notes the woman's breasts and the future president's signature is a squiggly Donald below her waist, mimicking pubic hair inside the outline of this naked woman. The Journal reports that the letter from Trump to Epste was styled as an imaginary conversation between the two. Voiceover There must be more to life than having everything, the note began. Donald yes, there is. But I won't tell you what it is, Nor will I, since I also know what it is. DONALD we have certain things in common. Jeffrey yes, we do. Come to think of it. Donald Enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? Jeffrey As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Trump A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday and may every day be another wonderful secret. Now, I should note NBC News has not independently verified the existence of that letter, which was written before Epstein was ever arrested. That Trump vehemently denies the letter's existence. In fact, he told the Journal, quote, this is not me. This is a fake thing. It's a fake Wall Street Journal story. He continued, I never wrote a picture in my life. I don't draw pictures of women. It's not my language, it's not my words. And of course, because are talking about Donald Trump, he threatened to sue the Wall Street Journal for publishing this article. But this isn't just a personal matter for the President of the United States. This is also a substantive matter in terms of how transparent Trump and his administration have actually been. People familiar with the letter tell the Wall Street Journal that it was among the documents reviewed by DOJ officials who investigated Epstein and his girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, years ago. What's unclear is whether this letter was also part of the Trump administration's recent review of the case. The Justice Department has not responded. The Wall Street Journal, the FBI have declined to comment. I should note that if this letter is in fact as it is described, it would have been written by Trump just one year after he infamously said this about Jeffrey Epstein to New York magazine, quote, I have known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It has even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. Since Donald Trump won the presidency in 2016, the first time, we have wondered, what would be the piece of news that would finally pierce the Teflon of Teflon Don. What would be the piece of news that would finally enrage or just get through to Trump's base? We are now in day 11 of a news cycle that has finally managed to put Trump at odds with his MAGA base. And please do not take my word for it. Take a listen to how Trump's own voters are describing their own emotions right now on right wing political call in shows.
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Jimmy Jam
I feel really betrayed and I feel really, really angry. We have a president who tells us to move on from Epstein because it doesn't matter. Are you guys still talking about this seriously? And yet he still talks about the, still talks about the 2020 election fraud. He talks about the Hunter Biden laptop. He talks about all this stuff from five, six years ago. And he tells us to move on from the Epstein trial or the Epstein case. I, people like me will not stop talking about this. I feel so betrayed and so angry. This is not what I voted for. I'm concerned about being able to trust Donald Trump to keep his word in his campaign. He said he was going to let us know all of the facts about and now he's saying, go away. Don't pay attention to it. These Epstein files, we were told that there was going to be released, there was this client list that was going to be released and the fact that it's suddenly gone away and he's trying to gaslight us is like a punch in the gut to maga.
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Unknown News Anchor
Hear that quiver in their voice. They feel betrayed, they feel angry, they feel gaslit. They feel like they have been punched in the gut. Now, Trump's position here and the MAGA base's position here, it puts the rest of the Republican Party between Iraq and a hard place to satisfy their base. Republicans are eager to publicly declare that they are personally in favor of releasing the Epstein files.
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Nicole Wallace
It's a very delicate subject, but we.
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Jimmy Jam
Should, we should put everything out there.
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Nicole Wallace
And let the people decide.
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Ruben Gallego
I do think there needs to be more transparency.
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Jimmy Jam
I think you ought to make it public.
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Nicole Wallace
And in this case, I just say.
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Unknown News Anchor
Let'S make it all public and get it out there. So that's what Republicans are saying about this issue publicly. That is how they want their base to perceive their stance here. But because they don't want to anger the president, most Republicans don't actually want to vote to release anything. As more than a dozen Republican Congress members and aides told Politico today, House Republicans are pressuring their leadership to send members home for summer weeks early before they have to go on the record voting yes or no on whether to release the files related to Epstein. The thinking here is that the issue will have died down once lawmakers come back in the fall. Meanwhile, the fight over how to handle the sudden crisis in the Republican Party over Jeffrey Epstein and these files. It is gumming up what was supposed to be a smooth glide path for the House to vote to claw back $9 billion in government spending. That legislation is currently being debated in the House Rules Committee. But Republicans are reportedly trying to use tonight's meeting to create another escape hatch. They will vote tonight to put what Politico describes as a likely non binding resolution on the Epstein files to the floor for a vote. So the key word there is non binding, something they can vote for and they can say it shows they want transparency while potentially not actually having any teeth. That is the situation in the House tonight as Republicans desperately try to find a solution that appeases both their boss and their base. Meanwhile, in the Senate, Republican Leader John Thune told reporters today he's not hearing any chatter among his conference that they want to vote to force disclosure of the files. Democrats trying to put them on the record anyway. Here was Senator Ruben Gallego, Democrat of Arizona, on the Senate floor today.
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Unknown Senator
Mr. President, I'm interested this resolution to require the Department of Justice to release its files related to Jeffrey Epstein.
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Unknown News Anchor
Well, that attempt, it was quickly squashed by Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma. I'm joined now by Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona Senator, thanks so much for being with us. I do want to get to what you were attempting to do today on the Senate floor, but first, your reaction to this new reporting from the Wall street journal about this 2003 birthday letter to Epstein bearing Trump's sign.
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Unknown Senator
Well, this is what makes, you know, what I'm trying to do and what a lot of us are trying to do. Even more important, there's a lot of questions that are now being asked. You know, we just saw yesterday the Trump administration fired the prosecutor that was involved in the Jeffrey Epstein prosecution. And now you're seeing basically unraveling eight years of lies, of accusations, of, you know, government officials being told and yelled at that they were covering up pedophilia. And now we're seeing it's the Republican Party and Donald Trump essentially doing the same. They're essentially trying to hide whatever is on the list, who is on the list to either protect themselves or to protect their elite friends. And so what we want is just transparency. We want people to be able to see what actually happened. Were the Republicans just lying for eight years and revictivizing all these women, or were they actually trying to protect their elite friends? Because what we have seen from Donald Trump is that he does like doing that. He'll take care of them, making sure they get their tax cuts. He'll take care of them, make sure they get their pardons. And now he's going to take care to make sure that they don't get, you know, exposed for being involved with, you know, this really horrible man.
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Unknown News Anchor
Senator, I'm not sure if you were able to hear some of the calls that we were playing of, you know, listeners of conservative radio calling into these shows saying they feel betrayed, they feel that they were gaslit by this president. Is interesting to me that they feel this way specifically about the Epstein files when they could make the same argument about the fact that they helped elect a president who said that he was focused on affordability, then goes on to take away 12 million Americans health care, give a tax break to his wealthy friends. I wonder if you think they're going to continue to be upset if this is going to continue to fracture the MAGA base.
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Unknown Senator
Look, I do think so. And again, this is a continuation, and I think it finally kind of broke the dam. You started seeing that, you know, when, when Donald Trump and his allies were going to go, and they have essentially, you know, pushed off close to 12 million Americans in order to affordpush off 12 million Americans off insurance in order to afford tax cuts. For the rich. Right? This is something that the MAGA base was against. You know, they were against a lot of the things that they've been seeing, even when it comes to immigration, now that they're going after family members and separating them, you know, people that have been long term members of communities. And now this is kind of another thing that proves to the point that he's only been using them and lying to them, and it's being pushed back in their face every day because he's not even trying to respect them. He's literally saying, don't believe it. Just stop listening to this. And even calling them losers at some point. These are humans. And I have a lot of friends that are Trump supporters. Some of them are maga. And let me tell you what I'm hearing from them is that this is probably the last rope. And they're very disappointed in him. And it doesn't surprise him at this point, the fact that he is acting and everyone else is acting in a way that, you know, that they can just keep hiding this. It just pisses them off. And this is the thing that really just ticks off people in general about government. Right? And one thing you understand about Trump supporters, they've always disliked the way government has acted and has always acted as if they're in the power to basically take care of the elites. And he's just proving that right now.
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Unknown News Anchor
Let's talk about what happened on the Senate floor today. Your resolution to force the release of materials from the Epstein case, it was blocked by Republicans. Senator Mullen, he called it political theater. If I am counting correctly, this is at least the third time Republicans have blocked votes to force the release of Epstein materials. What do you think it is they're afraid of?
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Unknown Senator
Well, number one, they're afraid of Donald Trump. Right? He basically can call the shots. And look, this is the man that was able to convince Senator Lisa Murkowski to essentially sell 12 million Americans and not be able to have health insurance in order to support some of the richest Americans getting tax cuts. You know, he basically threatened, you know, when it comes last night to the rescissions, cut, you know, Senator Collins from Maine with a primary she didn't support, you know, cutting and killing PBS and, you know, essentially killing Big Bird. And so right now he's telling them, like, you need to protect me from this, because if not, I will come after you. And again, this is all about Donald Trump. This is what he does. He first takes care of himself, then he takes care of his elite little buddies, and then after that, everyone else, whether it's the MAGA or the rest of the country, can just screw themselves as long as he gets what he wants. And this is finally coming back to haunt them because people are finally seeing it all together. You know, he's taking care of his rich friends with tax cuts. He's taking care of his rich friends by covering up for their crimes with all these pardons. And now you're seeing it right now one last time where he's trying to make sure that whoever else is on this list or in that book that he signed with is protected instead of prosecuted like they should be.
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Unknown News Anchor
Again, this is day 11 of this story and we have watched the President workshop different rationales, different off ramps. It looked for a moment as though the potential appointment of a special counsel, special prosecutor was going to be the off ramp that they would pursue. But today you had the White House Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt, saying the President will not recommend a special counsel. I wonder, one, Senator, if that surprised you and two, if that is not the off ramp they're pursuing what they pursue instead.
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Unknown Senator
Well, let's just focus on the fact what he is trying to do. Essentially this is a cover up. The President is trying to engage in a cover up of a major sex crime that had, that has occurred and occurred over 20 years. And the fact that he's trying to workshop different ways to get out of this, it's scary. The President of the United States should not be engaging in this. The President of the United States should be transparent, should be telling us what's going on. And the fact that every day he's coming up with an excuse and trying to figure out how to get out of this, where the most simplest way to deal with this, if he's saying this is all his hoax, is to actually just go to the truth, go to, you know, Ms. Maxwell and ask her to testify and tell us all the information, release all data so the American public can decide what is true versus what is not. But the fact that the American President is both working with, you know, conservative media, you know, government funded employees to continue this cover up is something that should really piss off every American.
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Unknown News Anchor
Well, Senator, while you and I have been on air, the President has been on Truth Social. He, according to his statement on Truth Social, is directing the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to produce any grand jury testimony related to this case, which I think begs the question what true transparency and true accountability looks like here. Given the constantly changing contours of this conversation, do you have a sense of what full Transparency. What would make you satisfied that you had really seen everything you needed to see from this administration?
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Unknown Senator
Well, certainly a grand jury transcript is not going to give you a full scope of what actually was brought into evidence. And one of the things that I did in this bill is that it was a release of all the files except for to protect either ongoing portions of the investigation in case this has created other investigations and of course, the names of the victims. And I think if you do that and you release everything to the public so we could actually look at it, you know, let us stare at it in daylight, then we're going to be able to make a real assessment about what was happening, whether this president was involved when he was civilian, no doubt, you know, with, you know, with Mr. Epstein, if there was any of his elite buddies that were also involved in this child sex trafficking and child exploitation, sex exploitation ring. And the American public then can decide, you know, what they want to do next. But the fact is that he's kind of piecemealing out. Ways to find a way for him to kind of exonerate himself is not what the American public wants. The American public wants an opportunity to actually look at the full truth and make a determination. The president owes that to them. Concerned that he's the one who's been talking about this for eight years on the campaign trail. You know, he's the one who basically made his own bet on this issue and now he's trying to get everyone to let him out of it. You know, at the end of the day, you know, the chickens are coming home to roost and this is his fault. And now he has to answer to it.
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Unknown News Anchor
Meanwhile, House Republicans trying to pull a full saved by the bell and get out early for summer. Senator Ruben Gallego, thank you so much for getting us started. We got much more on this new reporting tonight. Congressman Jamie Raskin joins us in just 90 seconds.
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Nicole Wallace
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Unknown News Anchor
We'Re continuing to follow that breaking news from the Wall Street Journal, which reported tonight that a lewd letter bearing Donald Trump's signature was given to Jeffrey Epstein in 2003. According to documents reviewed by the Journal as well as people familiar with them, that letter contains several lines of typewritten text framed by the outline of a naked woman. Donald Trump denied writing the letter, is now threatening to sue the Journal, News Corp. And Rupert Murdoch. Moments ago, he also said, quote, based on the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein, I have asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to produce any and all pertinent grand jury testimony subject to court approval. This scam, all caps perpetuated by the Democrats should end right now. Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, a ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman, who've been talking about this Wall Street Journal story just a couple hours old, your take on it?
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Jimmy Jam
Well, I think Donald Trump's closing statement may be the most pertinent to our situation here, where he said something to the effect of May every day offer another wonderful secret. And I think he's going to get his wish on that because I think every day another wonderful secret about the relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein is going to be leaking out because so many people knew about it. And there are photographs and there are tapes and there are letters and documents like this. But it's obvious what we need. We need total disclosure of the complete file, redacting only the names and the identities of the minor victims of the sex abuse victims of Jeffrey Epstein and of the sex ring. And I think that Donald Trump and the Republicans can read the writing on the wall. There is overwhelming bipartisan, popular demand, congressional demand to release all of this stuff. And they keep slicing the baloney very fine. Every time they come back with another offer like, you know, the bipartisan resolution on this says we want all of the files in the document. They say, well, how about we give you all of the credible files? In other words, Trump and Attorney General Bondi will make their selective subjective judgment about what's credible and what's not credible. The Republicans in the Rules Committee just offered a resolution which is really pathetic, which basically creates, I counted seven or eight different categories of things that should be withheld, including things which, in the unilateral view of Pam Bondi, would be unauthenticated, whatever that means, given that we're not in a court of law at this point. They keep giving themselves reasons to withhold things. If you look at the resolution that came from Mr. Massie and Mr. Khanna, they asked, for example, for flight logs that dropped off of the resolution that the Republicans just offered moments ago in the Rules Committee. They had a phrase talking about the identification of all individuals, including government officials, who were on any of Epstein's lists. That phrase, all individuals, including government officials, dropped out. So, look, they're looking for any reason to give themselves unilateral, unfettered, subjective discretion to delete things from what is produced to Congress. And that's not the way we do it here. And the public is too smart for that. I think on a bipartisan basis, the American public is going to reject that. Just release all of the documents. And the only thing that needs to be left out are the names and identities of the victims of this sex ring.
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Unknown News Anchor
So, Congressman, as you and I are on air, AG Bondi has said that she is ready to ask the courts to release all of that grand jury testimony. If I am hearing your analysis correctly, that baloney is too thinly sliced for a proper sandwich.
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Jimmy Jam
Yeah, but we're not asking for the grand jury testimony. We're asking for all of the files the Department of Justice has. In other words, we're asking for exactly what Donald Trump was demanding and exactly what Pam Bondi was demanding before they got into power and got to look at everything. And now they're looking for reasons to make very careful deletions and excisions from the record. We want to be able to see it all to get to the bottom of this. And there is a bipartisan urgency about it. I know that the Republican leadership in the House is trying to hang on, to give them the wiggle room to get rid of the documents they don't want us to see. But I think that the cat is out of the bag and they're going to have to turn everything over to us.
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Unknown News Anchor
They're still debating live. I want to ask you about another piece of this, which is you have Trump saying he's following through on his threat to sue the Wall Street Journal for reporting this story. This is what he posted on Truth Social. The Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch personally were warned directly by President Donald J. Trump that the supposed letter they printed was a fake. And if they print it, they will be sued Mr. Murdoch, said he would take care of it, but obviously did not have the power to do so. President Trump will be suing the Wall Street Journal News Corps and Mr. Murdoch shortly. I want to get your response to that, Congressman, but I also want to get your response to reporting that this was the same threat he made to the Wall Street Journal's editor in chief and they chose to run this enemy anyway. You and I have talked many times about what a slip slide into authoritarianism looks like when people bend the knee and obey in advance. The fact that the Wall Street Journal chose to run with this, even when being threatened with legal action by the President of the United States, what does that tell you about where our democracy is in this moment?
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Jimmy Jam
Well, how sad and tragic it is that the owner of the Wall Street Journal told Donald Trump, the President himself, he would take care of it, but he was unable to do so. Well, that's exactly what the rich and powerful people told the prosecutors down in Florida when this whole thing started, that they would take care of it. And in fact, it was Donald Trump's later Secretary of labor, who was then U.S. attorney in the Southern District of Florida, who took care of it for Jeffrey Epstein and took what was a prepared 60 count federal indictment to throw the book at them for this complex human trafficking, sexual abuse of minors ring. And they turned it into one mild state count of solicitation. He took the plea and was able to have this sweetheart contract where he spent all day doing whatever he wanted and then he would go and spend the night in jail. Like that is a double system of justice. And that double tiered system of justice lasts right up until this day where Donald Trump is now calling Rupert Murdoch saying, take care of this. I don't want any more information coming out about my best friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. I don't want that coming out. And even he couldn't take care of it, so now he's gotta sue his friend. Well, guess what? Donald Trump has been suing law firms and he's lost in all of those cases because they refused to back down to him. He sued Harvard University and other colleges and universities and he lost those cases because they refused to back down to him. And they stood on their constitutional rights. And the only people are losing are the people who are caving in and giving into him. So if I were the Wall Street Journal, I would say bring it on, because all they've done is publish the truth. And he doesn't come close to New York Times versus Sullivan showing because they've only published the truth, and they are certainly conscious of its truth and they don't believe it's false.
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Unknown News Anchor
Congressman Raskin, we have a lot more to talk about. Stay with me. We're going to talk about the vote that Democrats had to walk out of today.
- [25:56]
Ruben Gallego
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Jimmy Jam
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Nicole Wallace
Just ask Ludacris.
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Jimmy Jam
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Nicole Wallace
You or Endurance?
- [26:42]
Jimmy Jam
Choose the name Ludicrous Trusts. Endurance. Right now, get $300 off any plan plus a year of elite benefits, a two thousand dollar value free, all backed by a 30 day money back guarantee. Get your free quote@endurancewarranty.com that's endurancewarranty.com this is absolutely insane. What is the rush, sir? I am interrupting because you're interrupting a regular point of order. At least address my point of order. I have the right to do that by the rules of this committee, sir, with all appeals to your decency, with all appeals to your integrity, with all appeals to past jurisdiction and past precedent. Why are you doing this?
- [27:25]
Unknown News Anchor
That was Senator Cory Booker imploring Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley to follow the committee's rules and allow his Democratic colleagues to speak out before the vote to advance Emil Bovey's nomination to be a federal judge. When Grassley shut Booker down, Democrats on the committee can see it there. They walked out in protest with Senator Mazie Hirono accusing Republicans of running a, quote, kangaroo court. Bovey, of course, is the former acting deputy attorney general who is the subject of a whistleblower complaint from a former Justice Department attorney who says that Bovey told him to say F you to the courts that blocked Trump's deportation agenda. Bovey denied having any recollection of that incident when he testified under oath. But emails and texts later shared by the whistleblower back up the claim that Bovey did direct his subordinates to defy court orders. After today's vote, Bovey is one step closer to what is a lifetime appointment as a federal judge. Back with me now, Congressman Jamie Raskin. Also Joining us, former U.S. attorney Barbara McQuaid and MSNBC legal analysts. Barbara, I am eager to get to this story, but I know you want to weigh in on what we were just talking about vis a vis the release of grand jury testimony in the case of Jeffrey Epstein.
- [28:36]
Barbara McQuaid
Yes. Congressman Raskin was making the great point about how they're slicing the baloney so thinly. I wanted to just point out that there is a Rule 6e of criminal procedure that prohibits courts from releasing grand jury material to the public. So when Donald Trump tweets that he has directed Pam Bondi to release grand jury material subject to court approval, they know full well they will not get it. So we're not going to see any grand jury material. The other point to make again, along with this line of they're slicing the baloney a little too thinly. I will support that. Again, which is grand jury material makes up likely a very small percentage of this case file. That's just when you put witnesses in the grand jury to testify under oath. Massive amounts of case material come from interviews, financial records, surveillance, phone records and other techniques. And so the grand jury file in this case is likely to be only a very small percentage of the whole file. So the tweet the president put out tonight is an absolute misdirection distraction from the release of this file.
- [29:42]
Unknown News Anchor
Well, and Congressman Raskin, there's a place where these two stories actually dovetail because Senator Booker has asked Bovey to share more about his role in those files that were not published. This is part of a cornucopia of issues, Right, with Emil Bovey's nomination, which seems particularly relevant because, again, this is a lifetime appointment. What concerns you most about his being appointed to the federal bench?
- [30:08]
Jimmy Jam
Well, everything. He's completely unqualified to be on the federal bench. And none of our rights and none of our constitutional values would be remotely safe with him voting on it. I mean, what Donald Trump wants is somebody who will follow his every order. I mean, he doesn't even want an extremely right wing conservative justice like Scalia because Scalia ultimately might follow the rule of law in a direction that Donald Trump would not accept. He wants mob judges, people a mob boss can call up and tell what to do. And this guy refused to say today even that Donald Trump couldn't run for a third term because of the Constitution. He refuses to even acknowledge that the Constitution bars you from running for a third term. He refuses to acknowledge that there was a violent insurrection on January 6th. He's an election denier. He refused to say that Joe Biden won the election in 2020, an election he won by 7 million votes, 306 to 232 in the electoral College. So you may as well put Donald Trump himself or Lara Trump on the Supreme Court at this point. I mean, they are appointing absolute sycophants and, you know, running dogs for Donald Trump.
- [31:19]
Unknown News Anchor
I fear that there will one day be reason to play that clip as proof that you are, in fact, clairvoyant. Congressman Barb Emil Bovey, on top of everything that we just heard from Congressman Raskin, is also the subject of a contempt complaint in the D.C. circuit Court of Appeals. It hasn't advanced yet. Just give us a sense. Is that normal? Are you worried that this is being held up for what can only be described as more nefarious reasons?
- [31:45]
Barbara McQuaid
Well, you know, the contempt decision, I don't know what is causing a delay in that. But I share the congressman's concern, based on that whistleblower complaint, that it was Bovet who was actually the one pushing the government to be in contempt, telling them that those planes are going to take off no matter what. We might have to ignore a court order. We might have to tell the court to expletive off. That kind of disregard for the court, the separation of powers, the rule of law and our Constitution makes someone singularly unfit to serve as a judge.
- [32:17]
Unknown News Anchor
I want to get both of you on this next story, which is that Maureen Comey, the prosecutor who played a key role in the Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell cases, she was fired yesterday. She's also the daughter of former FBI Director James Comey. We now know she wrote an email on her way out, and I want to read you both some of it and get your reaction. She writes, I was summarily fired via memo from main justice that did not give a reason for my termination. Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos. Without fear or favor, do the right thing the right way, for the right reasons, without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful. But we've entered a new phase where without fear may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant wielded to suppress independent Thought instead of fear. Let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power, of commitment to seek justice for victims, of dedication to truth above all. Barb, this is incredibly unusual, what we have watched happen here, but her words really reminding us where this is all headed.
- [33:39]
Barbara McQuaid
Yeah, those are powerful words, and I'm very pleased to see that she wrote them. You know, this idea that the Attorney General is firing people and the only reason they're giving is based on Article 2. Article 2, of course, is the constitutional provision that gives the president the executive power. Essentially, what they are saying is the president could fire anybody in the executive branch anytime, anywhere, for any reason or for no reason at all. This is the way maybe a CEO acts in the private sector, when people can be fired at will. That's not how it works in the federal government, where we have civil service protections. But as she said in her email, it appears to be an effort to create fear so that people will shrink and put their head down and not go after the powerful. And if and when that happens, that is a terrible day and a terrible harm to our Department of Justice.
- [34:32]
Unknown News Anchor
Congressman Raskin, this seems ripe for the House Oversight Committee that the power to hold hearings. I mean, do you. Do you plan to invite Ms. Comey to speak publicly about her departure?
- [34:43]
Jimmy Jam
Well, I'm the ranking Democrat on judiciary now, not on oversight, but it is ripe for oversight. But I think it's ripe for judiciary as well, because this is a complete contamination of the Department of Justice and of the law enforcement power. Trump's people are instituting a regime of fear over anyone who will try to uphold the rule of law in the Constitution when it gets in Trump's way. And everything is in pursuit of favor for Donald Trump and his family and his friends. I mean, they started by pardoning nearly 1600 violent insurrectionists and rioters and people who tried to overthrow the 2020 presidential election. Then they came in a DOJ. They began to fire dozens of experienced, excellent federal prosecutors simply because they had worked on the January six case. They've proceeded to plunder the public fisc, fire tens of thousands of federal workers, and put everybody in danger. That's a very moving email that Ms. Comey wrote. I don't know her, but she sounds like she's an excellent public lawyer and didn't deserve to be treated like that. And I'm sure Barbara knows tons of public lawyers whose careers have just suddenly ended because they've been sacked, you know, almost anywhere in the federal government if they're not just playing directly on Donald Trump's team, which means they will do whatever he says without respect to the Constitution or the rule of law. And that's essentially what Attorney General Bondi has said. And that's why we are in the situation we're in. And I'm just grateful that we've got a massive bipartisan public demand for some truth and accountability. And I hope that that leads to a new way of thinking about Donald Trump's M.O.
- [36:34]
Unknown News Anchor
Congressman Jamie Raskin, that leads me perfectly into my next block. Barbara McQuaid, thank you both so much for being with us. As teased coming up, Good Trouble protests popped up across the US Today. We're going to speak with the organizers about resistance in the Trump era. We got more on that after a quick break. Today marks the five year anniversary of civil rights icon and former Congressman John Lewis death. And in his honor, activists have answered Lewis famous call to action to get in Good trouble. More than 1600 good trouble marches were organized all across the country today in places like Chicago and Indianapolis and San Jose. People took to the streets and exercised their right to protest against the Trump administration's policies and actions. Joining me now, two of the organizers of those rallies, Barbara Arnwein, president and founder of Transformative Justice Coalition, and Ezra Levin, co founder of Indivisible. It is good to see see you both. One of the biggest political pressure points for Donald Trump right now is the Epstein files. We've been talking about it all night. According to a Quinnipiac University poll out yesterday, 63% of voters, they don't approve of the Trump administration's handling of it. Barbara, your sense is that breaking through is that I get that some of this is substantive and it is about, you know, it is about the issues. But, but I also wonder if there are now new elements that are pushing people out. Ezra.
- [38:14]
Ruben Gallego
Can you hear me? Oh, hey. So what we're seeing, what we're seeing around the country, I've seen overwhelming demand, not just from progressives, not just from Democrats, but from Republicans, from MAGA participants who say obviously these files ought to be released. The polling I've seen shows that 4% of Americans think that the files shouldn't be released. This president is not just implementing a deeply unpopular agenda. He's not just generating more people out in the streets than we've seen in modern American history. He's also alienating his own base. I think the wheels are coming off. I think a lot of people are waking up and seeing that they were sold a bill of goods that this guy promised to lower prices of eggs and bread. And instead he's implementing this project 2025 agenda for which he has no mandate, and he's protecting himself and his donors from the consequences of his own actions. So, yeah, it's breaking through, but that's not the only thing that's breaking through. There's a lot breaking through right now, and we saw it in the streets today. Yeah.
- [39:17]
Unknown News Anchor
Barbara, I'm curious what you heard from protesters about why it was that they were showing up.
- [39:22]
G
They were showing up because they're upset about the racial division that this administration is perpetuating and propagating. They're upset about the lies about our fellow Americans. The deportations really has people upset about the lies. And they hate seeing their neighbors being taken away, disappeared, and ICE running Gestapo, like around our country. They're upset about that. They're upset about the move towards authoritarianism, the disrespect for our Constitution. When I said that, they hollered. They're so upset about that. They're upset about the stumping of the First First Amendment. They're upset about the denial, due process. They're upset about everything that's going on. And I think that the president's being caught. He's been caught in his own lies. He's been caught in his own ambitions. Nobody wants an autocracy. Nobody voted for an oligarchy. Nobody voted for the sea. People who are good, hardworking neighbors being drugged off and families split and divided for no good reason. I think that people are just upset, angry, they want to, and they're really just ready to be heard. If they could vote right now, they would be in those voting places. They really, really see this as a pivotal moment in our nation's history.
- [40:46]
Unknown News Anchor
Ezra, there's like a lot happening today. Among the things that are happening at the White House budget Chief Russell votes saying that the Trump administration is going to likely send another rescission package through Congress, try to claw back more funds. I get Ezra, that's not going to show up in a poll. Right. You're not going to like, have a report or talk to someone at a rally who's like, I'm here because of rescissions. But it speaks to the fact that one, there are supposed to be three branches of government co equal branches of government. People are getting hip to the fact that that is not currently how this administration is working. And they actually enjoy and want the benefits of that government spending.
- [41:21]
Ruben Gallego
That's right. Look, this is breaking through the policy agenda is breaking through. People did not vote to eliminate the Department of Education. People did not vote to illegally fire federal workers. People not vote to eviscerate all of the services that they depend on. That's not what they voted for. And so people are feeling that and they are responding to it. But there is a particular way that these rescissions are going to have a big impact on the national political debate. We are about to run out of funding. It runs out in September, and Democratic votes are going to be necessary to pass additional funding for the federal government. And if Donald Trump and his administration is turning around after deals are cut and saying, actually, we're going to not spend the money that we agreed to spend, why on earth would any member of the Democratic caucus in Congress hand over votes so the Republicans can pass a budget that they then don't follow? This has a direct impact, not sometime in the future, but right now, on our political realities. And I think you're gonna see a lot of people around the country asking Democrats to play hardball and not just give in to republic demands yet again like they did earlier this year when they passed a government funding bill.
- [42:32]
Unknown News Anchor
Ezra Levin, Barbara Arnoin. I think that Congressman Lewis would be so impressed and so proud. Thank you so much for joining and for organizing. Up next, why Trump's idea to reopen Alcatraz prison is like a bad scene from a Hollywood film best left for the cutting room floor. That's next. No secret that Donald Trump watches a lot of television. And sometimes that television seems to be where he gets his worst ideas. Like in May, when a local station servicing the area around Mar A Lago aired reruns of Clint Eastwood's iconic 1979 prison drama, Escape From Alcatraz. And coincidentally or not, only hours later, Trump posted on social media about a big new idea to reopen the long shuttered Alcatraz prison. Today, AG Pambondi and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum spent the day at Alcatraz island in the San Francisco Bay, which is currently a museum and a popular tourist destination run by the National Park Service. And they double down on Trump's absurd proposal. Alcatraz could hold the worst of the worst. It could hold middle class, violent prisoners. It could hold. It could hold illegal aliens. It could hold anything. Okay, so the problem for the Trump administration is they seem to forget that Hollywood is not real life. And aside from the cruelty clearly being the pointer, the reality of Alcatraz as a functioning prison is far from its mythical portrayal on the big screen. Beyond being so small, it held less than 300 inmates, having no running water, electricity and a host of other infrastructure problems. Alcatraz was shut down back in 1963 because it simply cost too much to operate, nearly three times the cost of any other federal prison at the time, and it would likely cost billions more to refurbish. But for Trump, for his sycophants, logistics important? Not as important as appearances. Trump admitted as much back when he first floated the plan, saying, I guess I was supposed to be a movie maker. It's not too late, Donald. You can leave Washington for Hollywood anytime you want. We'll be right back. That does it for me today.
- [44:50]
Barbara McQuaid
You can catch the show Tuesday through.
- [44:52]
Unknown News Anchor
Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
- [45:02]
Nicole Wallace
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, Nicole speaks with legendary songwriter and music producer Jimmy Jam.
- [45:13]
Jimmy Jam
I treat it like a privilege to be able to do that, to be able to speak to people, to be able to help raise money, help raise awareness. But I get to do it from.
- [45:20]
Nicole Wallace
Music the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.