← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump learns to say 'affordability,' but doesn't seem to grasp its meaning
00:40:33
Jen Psaki looks at Donald Trump's callous disregard for Americans who are struggling to cover living costs while he learns that "affordability" is an important political buzzword but all of his policies only make things more expensive.
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- [00:00]
Jen Psaki
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte.
- [00:08]
Senator Ruben Gallego
Paint finish and satin or what that.
- [00:10]
Nicole Wallace
Clunking sound from your dryer is.
- [00:12]
Senator Ruben Gallego
With Thumbtack, you don't have to be.
- [00:13]
Jen Psaki
A home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see.
- [00:17]
Nicole Wallace
Price estimates and read reviews all on.
- [00:19]
Jen Psaki
The app download today.
- [00:20]
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- [00:49]
Jen Psaki
Dsw.Com because the Trump administration is hell bent on preventing critical food assistance from reaching the American people. Because the Trump administration is is just as clueless and as cruel as they were before the Republican Party took a beating in elections across the country. Late tonight, the Trump administration asked the Supreme Court to immediately pause a federal judges ruling that required the administration to fully fund SNAP food assistance for the month of November. Now the administration, this just happened in the last few hours, asked the Supreme Court to intervene by 9:30pm Eastern Time tonight. That's about 28 minutes from now. We're going to be watching the docket all hour. We're going to update you as soon as we learn anything, if we learn anything. And that would be telling as well. And we'll talk about that too. But in the meantime, a lot has happened this week, not just the Lincoln bathroom redo as I mentioned with Chris, but I wanted to start our show tonight with two truths and a lie. I'm going to tell you about three news items and you try to guess which one of them is a lie. And if you already know all these stories, don't tell your spouse or your friend sitting on the couch with you or whoever you may be watching this show with right now. Let them make their own guesses. Okay, so here's the first one. Trump branded wine is now being sold tax free at government run stores. Okay, that's one of them. And number two, Trump's biggest political donor, the world's richest man, you may have heard of him, Elon Musk, is now on track to become the world's first trillionaire. And finally, number three, this year's Walmart Thanksgiving meal is cheaper because of how much more affordable things have become under Trump's presidency. Okay, take your guess, share with your neighbor, talk to your friend on the couch. Now, if you guessed Trump wine, unfortunately, that is in fact real. Trump wine is now being sold at Coast Guard run military stores, tax free. Nothing sketchy about that at all. If you guessed Elon Musk, unfortunately, that too is also real. Despite Tesla's plunging sales, market share and profits, and the general toxicity of Musk's personal brand these days, Tesla's shareholders voted yesterday to give Musk a trillion dollars worth of stock over the next decade. Which brings me to the lie.
- [03:01]
Sky Perryman
Mr. President.
- [03:01]
Jen Psaki
Since you brought up the Walmart Thanksgiving meal and it is cheaper, but it also contains less.
- [03:09]
Donald Trump
Well, I haven't heard that. You're telling me. Who are you with? Who are you with?
- [03:12]
Jen Psaki
NBC News, sir.
- [03:13]
Donald Trump
Fake news. NBC, you fake news.
- [03:18]
Jen Psaki
That's right. The Walmart Thanksgiving meal that Trump has been touting as proof positive that he has made the country more affordable is cheaper this year because it has less stuff. Like, a lot less stuff. I mean, for days now, Trump has been pushing the fact that the prepackaged Walmart Thanksgiving dinner is 25% cheaper than it was last year. But he has been conveniently ignoring the fact that this year's Walmart Thanksgiving package is missing a bunch of items it had last year, like onions, celery, sweet potatoes, chicken broth, seasoning, muffin mix, marshmallows, whipped topping, and pecan pie. I mean, those were all pretty key, delicious parts of Thanksgiving, right? The meal also downgraded certain items, like swapping Hawaiian rolls for cheaper dinner rolls. So, yeah, surprise, surprise, his claim is completely misleading. But he was pushing this whole Thanksgiving meal narrative for a reason. I mean, since Democrats swept Tuesday's election, the right has all of a sudden woken up to America's affordability crisis. Fox News is even talking about how much prices have risen for consumers all across the country. Trump himself is even starting to talk about it.
- [04:27]
Donald Trump
It's no good if we do a great job and you don't talk about it. And I don't think they talk about it enough. You know, they have this new word called affordability, and they don't talk about it enough.
- [04:37]
Jen Psaki
They have this new word called affordability. I mean, apparently the concept is entirely new to him, I guess. But ever since Tuesday, affordability has become one of Donald Trump's absolute favorite things to talk about.
- [04:52]
Donald Trump
The reason I don't want to talk about affordability is because everybody knows that it's far less expensive under Trump. So I don't want to hear about the affordability because right now we're much less. It was a con job. Affordability, they call it. But we just lost an election, they said, based on affordability. You know, I saw that they kept talking about affordability. So we talk about affordability. We should be talking about it because they talk about affordability. The affordability is much better with the Republicans. We are the ones that have done great on affordability. So we are the victors on affordability.
- [05:25]
Jen Psaki
Ah, yes. When I hear the name Trump, I don't know about you. I think affordability, or the affordability as he called it there. I mean, holding a lavish Great Gatsby themed party in the middle of a government shutdown hours before SNAP benefits were set to be cut off. A party titled I kid you not, a little party never killed nobody. That was the title of the party that does not exactly scream, I am a president who cares about affordability. So Trump has been partying and its biggest donor is now on track to become the world's first trillionaire. There's that all the while. This week, nearly 42 million Americans, most of whom are children, elderly or disabled, went without SNAP benefits, despite two federal judges ordering the Trump administration to pay SNAP benefits last week. This week, the administration actively chose to drag their feet. And that has meant a week without money for food for tens of millions of America's poorest people in the country. The New York Times spoke with people all around the country to ask how they managed to get by. And here's what they learned. Here are some of the stories. A single mother in New Jersey described her struggle to feed her two young sons with a budget of just $50. In Oklahoma, a 61 year old woman questioned whether driving to a food pantry was worth the gas money because a gallon of gas near her cost $2.50 and she only had $1.18 left. In Wisconsin, a mother of a four month old with a heart defect was in need of a specialized baby formula and she said it runs $75 a can. She didn't have the money for that baby formula. Colorado, a 25 year old with health issues tried the only nearby food bank, but everything there was already gone. Desperate, she snuck into a Walmart parking lot and grabbed as much as she could from the dumpster. Bags of frozen vegetables, meal replacement shakes, cheese, fruit, loaves of moldy bread that she thought she could salvage. I mean, that's just a taste from the New York Times. That's just some of what tens of millions of Americans have had to suffer through this week. Well, Trump claims he's the champion of affordability while partying all the while. Now, the good news is that ended today. I mean, yesterday a federal judge sort of ended today. And I'll get to that, ordered the Trump administration to fully fund SNAP immediately. And today, the administration's own Department of Agriculture said benefits would start flowing, flowing into the accounts of Americans all over the country. That is phenomenal news that will have a direct and immediate impact on the lives of so many people like the people I just talked about. But even now, even now that that money is already out the door, some of it at least, the Trump administration is still trying to claw it back. Today, the Trump administration just this evening appealed, and I mentioned this at the top of the show, the decision that forced them to fully fund snap, trying to block it. And tonight, an appeals court rejected that attempt to stop SNAP funding from the Trump administration. But again, as I mention at the top of the show, this administration is apparently willing to go to unbelievable lengths to keep food away from the poorest people in this country, asking the Supreme Court to intervene by 9:30pm Eastern Time tonight to prevent them from having to fully fund snap. So we will have to see if the Supreme Court steps in or not. And if they do, we will bring you that news and talk to experts about what it means. Now, in an effort to put an end to this madness, Democrats in the Senate offered Republicans a full, comprehensive deal today, a deal that would reopen the federal government if Republicans would agree to extend health care subsidies for one single year. That's not the totality of everything they originally wanted, but it would extend health care subsidies for a year and it would create a bipartisan committee to figure out what to do about the subsidies. After that, Republicans said no. The Republican Party is willing to let tens of millions of Americans go hungry and they don't care, it seems, if health care premiums double in cost, which they are scheduled to do very soon. So this leaves, there's a lot of questions this leaves, but two of them are how do you negotiate with a party like that? And is it really any wonder Republicans just got crushed at the polls on Tuesday night? You know, the answer to the last one. Joining me now to help me the first one and other questions is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona. Thank you so much for being here. And I just mentioned, I mean, this news about the Trump administration asking the Supreme Court to basically pull back and make it so that they don't have to pay SNAP benefits. To be clear to everybody, we talk about this a lot on the show. They have the money and contingency funds to do it. They could take steps to reopen the government. Why are they doing this?
- [09:45]
Senator Ruben Gallego
Well, because they want to have max amount of pressure. So that way the Republicans get what they want, which is they want a full year budget according to what they want. And they want to also kill the For Health Care act by basically, you know, being able to not extend these subsidies. And they're doing what they classically will do. They're pitting poor people against poor people. They're pitting people that are very dependent on food stamps against people that are very dependent on health care subsidies. And they're hoping that they will each turn against each other and that in the end they get their way. Because what happens at the end of all of this is that they get to cut millions of people off healthcare. They get to take all those savings and give it to their rich buddies. Right? So when you hear about them before, at least they're pretending to care about people on snap. By the way, I don't know if you guys remember that just last week, they're pretending to do that, but these are the same people. I had already cut off millions of people from SNAP benefits just a couple months ago, again to give tax cuts to their very rich buddies that did not need it. Right. And now when it's convenient to them, they care about them. And now that pretext is totally gone. But, you know, they're embarrassed because Donald Trump didn't do this right away, because as you saw, the judges ordered them to do this two days ago, but they waited till when to 6pm on a Friday night to ask for this stay. Because they know that they're embarrassed that the majority of Trump supporters that are on SNAP are gonna be really ticked off about it and they're gonna hold him accountable. So he wants everything he can to both not be responsible for the fact he's going to starve people. At the same time, he wants to be able to also kick off people off their health insurance, affordable health insurance, and then they wonder why they lose. So just saying the word affordability doesn't really make a difference when you have nothing in your check, in your checking account?
- [11:30]
Jen Psaki
No, you can say the word a thousand times. Or the affordability, as he likes to call it.
- [11:35]
Senator Ruben Gallego
The affordability, yes.
- [11:35]
Jen Psaki
My favorite part.
- [11:37]
Senator Ruben Gallego
Like how he created the word groceries, supposedly, according to him during the campaign.
- [11:41]
Jen Psaki
Yes, yeah, exactly. He created that Never heard of that before. Let me ask you about this deal that was proposed by Democrats to Republicans today that would extend these premium tax credits for a year. First of all, what did you think of that deal?
- [11:56]
Senator Ruben Gallego
I mean, I would not have gone with that deal. I mean, I think it's one year does not give working class people the odds.
- [12:02]
Jen Psaki
Do you want it more time?
- [12:03]
Senator Ruben Gallego
I want more time. You need more time for people to actually plan for their lives. And some of them think they only have one year of affordable health care is going to be living under a lot of stress. And people right now are living under a lot of stress. They can't pay for food, they can't pay for rent, they can't pay for mortgage. And now we're going to tell them essentially after a year, hey, get ready, you're going to have another. I thought there was something else, but I think it was really smart on the fact that we proved that the Republicans don't care. They don't want any type of affordable health insurance. They don't care if 24 million American families are going to have their insurance rates premiums double. They don't care that 4 million of these families are just going to walk away and not actually just walk away and not have any health insurance because we just offered them the best deal possible, one year extension. They said absolutely not. Right. And now you hear Speaker Johnson saying, well, this is a December problem. Well, clearly Speaker Johnson doesn't know how health insurance works because enrollment period closes in December. So a lot of families are going to have to make some decisions. He's basically telling them like don't worry about it, we'll take care of it in December when decisions are already done. And so they're just basically trying to screw these poor families out of affordable health insurance. And, and in the process, they also get to basically kick as many people off snap at the same time.
- [13:09]
Jen Psaki
All of it is just the cruelty seems like the point. And it doesn't surprise me that Mike Johnson doesn't know how it works. I wanted to play something just to your point that John Thune said today that Senate majority, you may have seen this, maybe not, but let's play and we'll talk about it on the other side. Please don't tell me they're fighting for.
- [13:26]
Samson Signore
Some greater good for the American people.
- [13:31]
Jen Psaki
If Democrats can be said to be.
- [13:32]
Samson Signore
Fighting for anyone at all besides themselves.
- [13:37]
Jen Psaki
They are fighting for a fraction of a fraction for a tiny percentage of the small percentage of Americans who are on Obamacare. This is a. I Mean, first of all, the statistics which are out there, which are nonpartisan, 24 million people, I mean, 4 million could be kicked off health insurance overall. 20 million would have their health care go up. But he's saying it's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction, which is not even true.
- [14:03]
Senator Ruben Gallego
Right. Well, first of all, it's families, right? No one is, you know, most people that are involved in using this subsidy are actually people that have families. And this is why they have to pay so much. We're actually helping them say this. Number two, like, this is very typical again of Republicans. They want to separate Americans. They want to say some Americans are more worthy of being taken care of, helping, made secure than other ones. Right. But it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, these are Americans. A lot of them are actually Trump people, Trump supporters, people that have voted for Donald Trump and they need these health care subsidies. And I'm not here saying like these Trump supporters shouldn't get health care. No, they're Americans. I want these Americans to have everybody should get health care security, be able to take care of their family, be able to know that they're going to have the ability to use insurance if they have to. And the fact that Republicans just don't care because they just want to kill the Affordable Health Care Act. They want to find more ways to save money using that so they could give more tax to rich buddies. And they don't care who it affects as long as it helps them and their rich buddies. At the end of the day, it's.
- [15:09]
Jen Psaki
So crazy because morally it's the right thing, but politically they're on the wrong side of this completely, too. Senator Ruben Gallego, thank you for being here. I know it's been a long week, an exciting week, but I really appreciate you taking time.
- [15:20]
Senator Ruben Gallego
Thank you.
- [15:21]
Alex Ball
Thank you.
- [15:22]
Jen Psaki
All right, we got to sneak in a 90 second break. But after Democrats blowout wins this week, Barack Obama just jumped into the mix with some pretty interesting good messaging. I thought about where the party goes next. I'm going to talk about it with the campaign managers behind Mikey Sherrill's huge win in New Jersey and Abigail Spanberger's huge win in Virginia, they're going to join me for an exclusive joint interview here at this table in just 90 seconds.
- [15:48]
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- [16:16]
Jen Psaki
Dsw.Com the connection between the guests on the show is the show. All that we do is put together people who are smart, people who are brave, people who are honest, and lots of times people who've never met each other to have a conversation that has never happened before. But on that day deepens everyone's understanding about the moment in which we gather.
- [16:40]
Nicole Wallace
Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace Weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddows original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja New. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [17:27]
Jen Psaki
Okay, Democrats had the best night they have had in a long time on Tuesday night. Sure feels much better to win than to lose. I think everybody feels that way. And now they're looking at how those races were won to figure out how to apply those strategies for next year's midterms and beyond, really. And while the party is still figuring out who its next leader is going to be, which is very healthy, it's a good thing, I will tell you. The party's most popular former leader is giving his take on what it all means.
- [17:53]
Barack Obama
It was good to see progressives get off the mat. It was a good reminder that it turns out that the American people are paying attention. They don't want cruelty. They're not looking for people on the top trying to entrench themselves in power. They believe in community. They believe in treating people with decency and respect. Your task is going to be not.
- [18:38]
Jen Psaki
To.
- [18:41]
Barack Obama
Impose litmus tests. We had Abigail Spanberger win and we had Zohran Mandani win and they are all part of a vision for the future. Our job is to say that we want everybody engaged. We recognize, yeah, we have differences and yes, there are fights that are going to have to be fought, but that deep down there is something core in us that we have in common that is extraordinary.
- [19:17]
Jen Psaki
Joining me now are the campaign managers for two of the big winners of this week's races. Alex Ball, who ran New Jersey Governor Elect Mikey Sherrill's campaign and will serve as the governor elect's chief of staff. Staff. And Samson Signore, campaign manager for Virginia Governor elect Abigail Spanberger. First of all, congratulations to you too. I spent a lot of time working in politics. It's hard to win governor's races. And you just campaign managed two amazing women to win those races. So congratulations. Let me start with you, Alex, because you dealt with your campaign and Mikey Sherrill dealt with a lot of critics, a lot of skeptics, a lot of people second guessing the strategy and the approach. I mean, we know she ran on affordability. She showed up all over the. She ran up margins among many groups and she absolutely trounced Jack Ciartarelli. What did the skeptics and the pollsters and the pundits all get wrong about how the campaign was being run and really how you won because you won by a large margin.
- [20:14]
Alex Ball
Yeah. Yeah. First of all, thanks for having us.
- [20:15]
Jen Psaki
Really appreciate it.
- [20:17]
Alex Ball
I'm kind of surprised that people are so surprised. I think Mikey has outperformed in every election she's ever run in. You saw unprecedented turnout in our primary election where we brought out new voters who had never participated in a primary op year election before. We won by over 100,000 votes. And then you get into the general election and where did Jack end up at the end of this thing at 43%. That's where he was in all the polls all the time. And Mikey was leading on trades related to the economy, cost of living, who people trusted, and who was going to be the strongest leader. So it was kind of right in front of everyone's faces. And as you saw on Tuesday, we won in a historic landslide.
- [20:54]
Jen Psaki
Yeah, this is a therapy session a little bit. I also think people can learn a lot from how you ran both of these races. And it's why important to talk about. Okay, so Samson, let me turn to you because your critic, not your critics, but critics out there are like, it's Virginia, It's a blue state, first of all, it's a purple state. I live in Virginia. It's purpley blue. And they also say she would have won anyway because her opponent was terrible. So that's why she won. Now she showed up all over Virginia. She helped win more than a dozen states and state legislature. Why was that an important strategy? Part of the strategy. And what do you think people were getting wrong who were kind of analyzing the race right now?
- [21:29]
Samson Signore
Yeah. So look, I'll start with saying this. Abigail Spamberger won because she was laser focused on lowering Costs, while Republicans were obsessed with running culture wars the entire time. And voters in Virginia are tired of the chaos. They're tired of the division. They want pragmatic, steady leaders, and that's what they got. And Abigail Spamberger, who they knew was going to be focused on the issues that mattered, most of them. Lowering costs, boosting the economy, and keeping our communities safe. And look, on Tuesday night, I think we got more than just a landslide victory. We got a coalition readjusting victory. We won by 15 points in Virginia. You have to go all the way back to when JFK was the president to see a margin that big.
- [22:07]
Jen Psaki
It's a huge margin.
- [22:08]
Samson Signore
Yeah, it is.
- [22:09]
Jen Psaki
It's a huge, huge margin. And I want to ask you about the culture war piece of this because I live in Virginia and I saw so many ads, there were so many ads that were spent that where money was spent on the anti trans message by winsome Earle Sears. It was insane. And it seemed like she was trying to take a piece out of the playbook. Right, The Trump playbook. Like I will run. She will run the same strategy. It will work here. It massively failed. Why do you think it failed?
- [22:36]
Samson Signore
Well, I think they got out of the ahead of their skis the entire time. Abigail Spamberger, from the very start of this campaign to the, to the closing, was laser focused on lowering costs and credentialing ourselves. Right. Abigail is a former CIA case officer, former federal law enforcement officer, and mother to three girls who literally, in her job as a federal law enforcement officer, went after people who hurt children. And we set out to travel Virginia. We went to every. We were just out in Lee county, which fun fact from a geographic standpoint is even further west than Detroit, out in southwest Virginia. And we traveled across the state. And ultimately what we delivered was a victory that was resounding. And in that victory flipped counties that went for Trump in all three of his presidential elections.
- [23:22]
Jen Psaki
Yeah, that's a really interesting fact. Okay, Alex, let me ask you about. You won back demographics that everybody was kind of. I'm telling you something. You lived freaked out about New Jersey after 2024.
- [23:32]
Alex Ball
Right.
- [23:32]
Jen Psaki
It was like Trump lost it by about six points. He won, made gains among Latino voters, among black voters. You won those demographic back. What do you think people can learn from the strategy that you and Mikey Sherrill and the whole team ran during that race?
- [23:49]
Samson Signore
Yeah.
- [23:49]
Alex Ball
You know, we were unrelenting in our message of affordability both in the primary and in the general. It was really clear that that's what Voters needed to hear that someone was going to be a strong leader and fight for them every day. And Mikey had that record. And we built on that throughout the campaign. And what you saw was us shift every single, every 21 county in New Jersey to the left. We picked up four potentially more legislative seats. There' a super majority in the assembly. And we flipped counties that Trump had previously won because Mikey had a message that really identified with people across the political spectrum.
- [24:24]
Jen Psaki
You're now her incoming chief of staff. That's a huge job, but congratulations again. One of the big challenges, it's always challenging to be a governor, but it's challenging to be a governor in a time when Donald Trump is sitting in the White House and you're from the opposing party. I've watched the race closely, but you know Mikey Sherri well. What should people know about how she's going to approach that challenge? And threats he's already been making about money he's going to take away from New Jersey.
- [24:45]
DSW Commercial Voice
Yeah.
- [24:46]
Alex Ball
I mean, Mikey's been clear from day one, she will work with anyone who wants to work with her to make life easier and more affordable for New Jerseyans. And she will stand up to anyone, you know, President Trump or people in her own party to make sure that she's delivering for New Jersey. And so day one, she's going to get right to work. That's why she's declaring a state of emergency on utility costs to drive down people's bills. She's going to go after him on tariffs, and, you know, she's going to do what she needs to do to deliver for New Jerseyans from the get go.
- [25:13]
Jen Psaki
All right, Sampson, just to put you on the spot, because I think all of you are giving people hope out there about all these people running races and winning races. What are you gonna do next? Gonna work for presidential campaign? What are you gonna be out there doing?
- [25:23]
Samson Signore
So I'm helping Abigail out on the transition. We wanna be sure that we can build an administration that reflects the values and the goals that we set out in the campaign. And then it's anyone's guess from there.
- [25:34]
Jen Psaki
All right, we'll see. I'm advertising you out there. You see that?
- [25:37]
Alex Ball
There you go.
- [25:38]
Samson Signore
Thank you.
- [25:38]
Jen Psaki
I know. Well, thank you both. Congratulations, both of you. Hope you sleep this weekend. I appreciate. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much. All right, coming up, we told you at the beginning of the show that Donald Trump asked the Supreme Court to step in on the fight over SNAP benefits. And just in the last few minutes, the Supreme Court did step in. So the person at the center of this case is waiting. She's going to join me, talk about all of it. After a quick break.
- [26:05]
Nicole Wallace
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, she sits down with former White House Communications director Anthony Scaramucci.
- [26:16]
Jen Psaki
We are a beautiful, colorful mosaic of.
- [26:20]
Samson Signore
People, and we are exactly what Lincoln said, the last best hope for mankind.
- [26:24]
Nicole Wallace
The best people with Nicole Wallace. Listen now. For early access and free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcast.
- [26:40]
Jen Psaki
So as we started the show talking about late tonight, the Trump administration asked the Supreme Court to immediately pause a federal judge's ruling that required the administration to fully fund SNAP for the month of November. And we just got word from the Supreme Court that they have granted the Trump administration's request. There are nearly 42 million Americans that rely on the SNAP program. Most of them, as I started the show, talking about children, seniors or people with disabilities, families across the country. And while multiple states have already sent out some SNAP benefits to some of those people, and I'm not sure how they can be pulled back, hopefully they can't be. SNAP benefits are staggered. So some people get them on the 1st of the month, some on the 2nd or the 3rd or even the 28th. Every state distributes benefits differently. And even within states, the day one person gets their benefits is often different from when another person will. So even though some people may have already received this month's benefits, this decision is going to have an impact, an immediate one, on the lives of millions, if not tens of millions of Americans. Joining me now is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward, Sky Perryman. Democracy Forward is one of two groups that represented a coalition of 25 Democratic led states in their lawsuit challenging the Trump administration's cuts to snap. Sky, I'm so grateful that you could join us and help us make sense of what this is, not make sense of it, but also understand what this is means. So what I have it here, it's only two pages, but what is your understanding for people watching out there who are deeply worried about this, deeply alarmed, deeply concerned about what the court decided, what it exactly means in the short term here?
- [28:15]
Sky Perryman
Yeah. So we just are getting this order too and reading it alongside you. But this is an administrative stay and so the court is going to wait and see what the First Circuit Court of Appeals does. The First Circuit said earlier today it would act quickly. And so, you know, I do believe that this is, you know, in the hands now of the First Circuit that's what we hear from the Supreme Court. I think the main thing that we want Americans to understand is that the courts have been very clear. The courts that have considered this have been very clear that this administration not only has the legal authority to make these payments, but this administration must make these payments. And the administration is fighting tooth and nail to deprive over 40 million Americans of their food. We represent in these cases churches and nonprofit organizations and food banks and workers who are, you know, working every day, but because of their economic circumstances and because of cyclical employment and our wages in this country cannot make ends meet without snap benefits. And this has been a devastating last seven days for these communities across the country. And the courts have been clear that this administration, you know, owns this responsibility, that they have the ability to make these payments. They are not making these payments. And we are confident, of course, in what we'll see at the First Circuit, which is, which is what we're now waiting on.
- [29:39]
Jen Psaki
Yet there's a contingency fund that has money that can cover these payments, and that is what you're referring to and has plenty of money in there to do that in the short term. Let me ask you just like one legalese question just on timing, because I think a lot of people watching are wondering, how long will this be? It says at the very end of this. So. So this administrative stay will terminate 48 hours after the First Circuit's resolution of the pending motion, which the First Circuit is expected to issue with dispatch. What does that mean in terms of the First Circuit is going to rule? We're waiting for that. Hopefully they act quickly. What does the 48 hour thing mean anything?
- [30:14]
Sky Perryman
I mean, we're going to have to see how this plays out. But I think that what the court is seeking to do here is to give the first Circuit time to go ahead and issue the opinion that it has said that it is going to issue imminently. Again, just want to be really clear because I think the main piece here, I mean, there are lawyers like the ones at my team, in our team at Democracy Forward who are working right now to do everything they can. There are lawyers that are going to work night and day to try to get the American people what they need. This is the first time in US history, the first time in US History that snap benefits have lapsed and it's creating such harm. But what I think we want to make sure everybody understands is this is something that this administration is choosing to do to the American people. It is callous, it is immoral and it, of course, the courts have said it's unlawful, and we're confident in the strength of this case.
- [31:05]
Jen Psaki
Sky, you're so familiar with the legal process, and you have filed probably more cases against the Trump administration than almost anyone else out there. Talk to us a little bit about how hard they are working to make it so that Americans who rely on SNAP benefits don't get their money because they've gone back to the court over and over again, and they essentially, for a period of time, seem to ignore a court order.
- [31:27]
Sky Perryman
Yeah, it's, it's really quite unbelievable, even for this administration. You saw the administration first came out and said they were confused and they thought they didn't have the legal authority to make payments. That was not truthful. That was a lie. The court was clear. They have the legal authority to do so. Then they came out and said, well, it would be our honor to make these payments. After we won in court last weekend, they only then ignored the court order. And the president went out on social media and said and gloated that he was going to deprive people of these essential nutritional benefits, 42 million people, based on his political politicizing and trying to use people as a pawn in politics. We won another court order earlier this week, as well as an order enforcing the prior one, and they have worked tooth and nail to try to block that. So this is really a crisis, I believe, of, you know, in our country. This is a crisis of, in our country's values to look to understand that the President of the United States and this administration are working night and deprive The American people, 42 million of them, of basic food. That is what is happening. And of course, we're going to be there in court to try to do everything we can to get people what they need.
- [32:40]
Jen Psaki
So tell me you're just, as I just said, this just came out. You're processing this. Everybody is processing this. And what this exactly means. What is next for democracy forward. What is next from the legal front, from your end?
- [32:54]
Sky Perryman
Well, our team is reading this as well as talking with all of our clients on the ground. We will continue to work in this case. The First Circuit has said that they are going to issue an opinion. That's the appellate court. And so, so you'll, you'll find our lawyers, you know, working through that process and doing everything we can to remedy what the courts have said is truly irreparable harm. I mean, you have families that are still unable to get the food they need as they're moving into a weekend because of this administration's action. So you, you will definitely see us, you know, probably back here, but definitely in court. And again, the First Circuit has said that it an opinion quickly and I believe that is what the Supreme Court is waiting for.
- [33:38]
Jen Psaki
Sky Perryman, thank you so much for being here. You were processing it. We were processing it as we went here. I really appreciate it. Exactly. Really appreciate it. Thank you again.
- [33:48]
Sky Perryman
Thank you.
- [33:50]
Jen Psaki
Okay. Coming up next, after the worst political week for Donald Trump since his second term began, the president has turned his attention to how he can hold onto power without winning more votes. It's kind of his shtick and he might have gotten some ideas from another strongman who paid him a visit today. I'm going to tell you all about that when we come back. It's fair to say that Donald Trump has a new obsession following all the big Democratic wins on Tuesday. Trump has been busy calling on Senate Republicans to abolish the filibuster, which would allow them, of course, to pass laws with a simple majority of 50 votes and without any say at all from Democrats. He mentions it, I mean, at almost every public event and has been posting nonstop about it on social media. He's been making pretty clear why he wants the filibuster gone, too.
- [34:45]
Donald Trump
The way to do it for the Republicans is to terminate the filibuster. They call it the nuclear option. This is the second form of nuclear. Very good. Very good. If we do it, we will never lose the midterms and we will never lose a general election because we will have produced so many different things for our people, for the people, for the country, that it would be impossible to lose an election.
- [35:08]
Jen Psaki
It would be impossible to lose an election. He's not actually talking about people voting on what he produced. He's talking about making it hard to participate in the process. Authoritarian like words when she said. Speaking of, let's just zoom out a little bit here because just take a look at who happens to be sitting right next to Trump on the left hand side of your screen. None other than Viktor Orban, Hungary's authoritarian leader, of course, a man who has been in power for 15 straight years now. After notoriously rigging Hungary's election systems in his favor in 2010, after he was elected prime minister, Orban amended Hungary's constitution and essentially gerrymandered the entire country. The changes were so drastic that during the 2014 election, Orban's party won 91% of Hungary's parliamentary districts, even though they only technically won 45% of the total vote. And that pattern repeated over the next decade, completely cementing his role. Now, Orban did not invent this tactic. This is a very crucial part of the authoritarian playbook. Democracy dies when voters are systematically disenfranchised so that leaders, even deeply unpopular ones, can stay in power. And Orban's undemocratic actions are why, by definition, Hungary is no longer considered a democracy. Now, back here in America, we have not reached that point yet, thank God. I mean, in large part because on a variety of fronts, people are fighting back against Trump's authoritarian like actions. When Republican states gerrymandered their districts, not unlike how Orban gerrymandered Hungary, Democrats in blue states did not just sit idly by. California pitched its own redistricting plan to voters, Prop 50. And it passed with flying colors. And now more Democratic run states are poised to follow suit. The lesson is, just because Trump seemingly wants to be all powerful and is looking at models to remain in power, it doesn't mean it's inevitable. There's always the chance Senate Republicans stick to their guns and refuse Trump's calls to end the filibuster and to do away with mail in and early voting. Only time will tell. But for now, there's a generation of Democratic leaders, including my next guest, who are eager to do what they can to prevent a backsliding of American democracy. Former Congresswoman Katie Porter is running to be the next governor of California. And she joins me next. One of the biggest political stories of the week was California voters coming out in droves to stand up for democracy, passing Prop 50 by an enormous march. And another big story was, of course, about the power of affordability as a message to voters on the campaign trail and what candidates were going to do about it. And I want to know what both of those stories mean for 2026 and beyond. That's a big part of the question now. Joining me now is someone who can speak to all of that, former congresswoman and current candidate for governor of California, Katie Porter. It's great to see you. Let me just start by asking you about this news that just broke in the last 20 minutes or so here. I mean, we just, of course, had a big election with a big focus on affordability. Republicans got completely crushed. And now the Trump administration has decided to fight SNAP food assistance for the most vulnerable Americans tooth and nail. Many of them, of course, living in the state of California where you're running to be governor. And as I'm sure you just saw and we just talked about this, the Trump administration Asked the Supreme Court to intervene and block them from having to pay November SNAP benefits in full. And the court granted it's temporary stay until lower court rules. What do you make of this confluence of events and how does it impact how you're thinking about how you're going to campaign?
- [38:43]
Katie Porter
Well, Jen, in the most painful way possible, people are feeling that Donald Trump doesn't care about whether they can literally put food on the table. I was talking today to a grocery store worker who relayed to me that someone had come in, an older gentleman had come in, tried to use their SNAP benefits and had nothing on the card, only to have the people behind him in line try to pay for his food. And he was asking the grocery store worker, when am I going to get the money? How and when's my card going to work? How am I going to be able to get food? Those are the conversations people are having. And the irony here, it's really terrible, is that Trump ran on making things affordable. And yet we see with SNAP for the most needy, for the most essential items like food, he's making it impossible for them to even take care of themselves.
- [39:36]
Jen Psaki
Right now. They're, I mean, Tuesday was a huge night. Huge night in California. Huge night for new female governors in the country. One in Virginia and one in New Jersey. And a big thing they're going to be grappling with is how they confront and navigate and deal with the efforts of efforts by Trump and his administration to withhold funding to kind of threaten their states just because they're governed by blue governor, blue state governors, they're blue states. Right. You would be dealing with that if you win the primary, if you become California's next governor. Why are you a better choice than the other people running in the primary to do that?
- [40:16]
Katie Porter
Well, like Abigail Spanberger, Virginia's new governor, Mikey Sherrill is going to be New Jersey's new governor. I entered politics. Donald Trump won in 2016 because of his attacks on health care, because of his attacks on democracy. I went to Congress and went toe to toe with Donald Trump's administration on issues from consumer protection to health care. And so this is the political world that I've navigated. And so I think what people want is somebody who understands we are in unprecedented times, somebody who's looking forward at what we need to do and is willing to call out Donald Trump for being unable, unwilling and absolutely uncaring with Reg tackling the cost crisis that families face. This isn't about choosing between standing up to Donald Trump and bringing down Costs, because everything Donald Trump is doing is driving up costs from tariffs, from doing nothing about housing, from health care premiums being poised to double in California. He's driving up costs. So standing up to Trump is exactly what we need to do to make life more affordable in our states, including California.
- [41:24]
Jen Psaki
Campaigns are definitely stressful. I know that. But I have to ask you about the two videos that have kind of gone a little bit viral. I mean, one, one of those videos is that you had a confrontation with CBS reporter and threatened to leave mid interview. And another speaking, you're proceeding pretty aggressively to a staff member. And I ask you, I want to ask you about them because I think people out there in California who are making a decision, they want to know that the person has the right temperament, has the right kind of internal strength to govern. And the new polling out there today indicates that voters do care about these videos and that your support has dropped with the public since then. So my question is, what are you gonna do to regain that support? What's your strategy here?
- [42:07]
Katie Porter
Well, I need to be honest with Californians that I know when I see those videos that I could have done better. I think they're owed that honesty. And I need to work on making sure that I do better in situations, including those with, you know, with stressful press situations. I think I'm known as someone who's tough, who's willing to answer tough questions, known as somebody who knows how to run and win tough campaigns in swing districts. So I have to continue to do the work. We saw another poll just a couple days ago that showed I was still leading the Democratic field by double digits. So this is campaign. I still have to keep going and doing the work and showing people. So I have to both convey to Californians my sincere knowledge that I could have done better in those situations. We also have to show them that I have the strength of character, that I have the energy, that I have the grit, that I have the fight to take on Donald Trump and to drive down costs in California, including the cost of housing, which is our biggest challenge.
- [43:07]
Jen Psaki
Katie Porter, thank you for joining me tonight. Really appreciate it. Got to sneak in a very quick break, but the biggest star of election night is standing by. And we'll be right back. That does it for me.
- [43:24]
Nicole Wallace
Tonight, MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, she sits down with former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci.
- [43:36]
Jen Psaki
We are a beautiful, colorful mosaic of.
- [43:39]
Samson Signore
People, and we are exactly what Lincoln.
- [43:42]
Jen Psaki
Said, the last best hope for mankind, the best people.
- [43:45]
Nicole Wallace
Apple with Nicole Wallace Listen now. For early access ad, free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.