Trump makes a fool of himself on world stage; pretends to solve crisis of his own making

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Trump makes a fool of himself on world stage; pretends to solve crisis of his own making
Air Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Featured Guests: Rachel Maddow, Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, Senator Richard Blumenthal, Congressman Jamie Raskin, Peter Katz

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jen Psaki and guests analyze the latest controversies involving President Donald Trump, focusing on his performance at the World Economic Forum in Davos, his ongoing obsession with acquiring Greenland, and the chaos surrounding his administration's legal and immigration policies. The episode includes in-depth discussion of Trump’s repeated public blunders, the diplomatic fallout from his statements and actions, alarming whistleblower revelations about ICE, and a preview of Special Counsel Jack Smith’s testimony before Congress.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Davos Disaster and the ‘Iceland’ Blunder

• Donald Trump, in speeches and in remarks, repeatedly confused Greenland with Iceland, reviving his long-standing obsession with annexing Greenland but getting the country wrong multiple times in front of world leaders ([01:14]–[04:56]).
  • Quote:

    “Sometimes you need a dictator.”
    — Donald Trump, [01:06]

• Rachel Maddow criticizes Trump for calling himself a dictator and condemns the lack of outrage and press scrutiny when Trump openly expressed dictatorial aspirations and confused major countries.
  • Quote:

    “A kid's movie from the 90s is literally operating at a higher level of geographical understanding than the President of the United States right now.”
    — Rachel Maddow, [07:05]

• Trump’s confusion became a media focus after he called for the acquisition of “Iceland” multiple times, mislabeling the territory and illustrating his notorious disregard for facts.
  • Numerous examples cited of Trump calling Greenland “Iceland” ([02:41], [03:41], [04:51], [06:50]).

2. Manufactured Crisis and Fake Solutions on Tariffs and NATO

• Trump threatened steep tariffs on European nations for not supporting his Greenland plan, causing temporary stock market turmoil ([08:29]).
• He subsequently claimed to have “formed the framework” for a future deal on Greenland with NATO – a move described as solving a self-created crisis ([10:19]):
  • Quote:

    “Well, we have a concept of a deal. Looks like we have pretty much a concept of a deal.”
    — Donald Trump, [10:19]

  • However, the supposed deal was debunked by actual NATO officials and exposed as empty rhetoric ([11:41]).
• Congresswoman Madeleine Dean explains the real diplomatic damage being done, reporting distress from Danish and Greenlandic officials and civilians over Trump’s disrespect, unpredictability, and alliance breaches ([12:49]–[19:28]).
  • Quote:

    “We must not normalize this erratic, unhinged, untethered to reality behavior of the President.”
    — Madeleine Dean, [12:49]

  • Quote:

    “Our children are going to bed afraid, afraid of the Americans… honest to God, this is our NATO ally of 75 years.”
    — Madeleine Dean, [15:52]

3. Fallout for U.S. Alliances and International Order

• Rachel and Dean stress the seriousness of damaged relationships with Denmark and other NATO allies ([14:40]–[19:28]).
• Canadian Prime Minister’s remarks (“we are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition”) highlight a broader loss of trust in American commitment to the rules-based order ([15:52]).

4. ICE Home Raids and the Lawless Immigration Memo

• Senator Richard Blumenthal discusses a bombshell whistleblower memo from ICE leadership asserting agents have authority to enter homes without a judge’s warrant, in blatant violation of the Constitution ([21:53]–[25:47]).
  • Quote:

    “What is really terrifying about this memo is not only that it directs agents to engage in blatantly unconstitutional action, but it is also from the acting director of ICE, Todd Lyon.”
    — Senator Richard Blumenthal, [21:53]

  • He underscores the fundamental role of judicial warrants in protecting citizens and law enforcement alike ([24:01]).
  • The memo exemplifies the breakdown of lawful process under Trump’s immigration enforcement agenda.

5. Legal Chaos: Trump’s Attempts to Control the DOJ and the Fed

• Discussion of the forced resignation of Lindsey Halligan, Trump’s unqualified pick for U.S. attorney, after federal judges blocked her appointment ([25:57]–[30:02]).
• Reports on Trump’s effort to illegally dismiss Federal Reserve Board members, facing significant legal setbacks and likely Supreme Court defeat ([25:57]–[30:02]).

6. Preview: Special Counsel Jack Smith’s Congressional Testimony

• Jamie Raskin outlines how much is at stake in Smith’s upcoming testimony, noting how Republicans will likely attempt to disrupt or undermine him ([31:17]–[34:04]).
  • Smith will discuss evidence for Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election, but is constrained on classified materials by judicial order.
• Rachel Maddow interviews Peter Katz, a long-time colleague of Jack Smith, who attests to Smith’s impartiality and integrity as a career prosecutor, emphasizing his lack of political motivation and focused professionalism ([36:37]–[39:00]).
  • Quote:

    “I have no idea what Jack's political persuasions are, if he even has them. It never came into discussion in any case that we ever talked about. Just didn't matter.”
    — Peter Katz, [38:10]

  • Katz shares personal insights on Smith’s discipline and work ethic, highlighting his athleticism and calm under pressure ([40:40]).

7. Closing Segment: Ted Cruz’s Storm Flight

• Light-hearted closing notes on Senator Ted Cruz leaving Texas for California ahead of another winter storm, referencing previous Cancun controversy ([41:09]).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Context | |-----------|------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:06] | Donald Trump | "Sometimes you need a dictator." | | [07:05] | Rachel Maddow | "A kid's movie from the 90s is literally operating at a higher level of geographical understanding than the President of the United States right now." | | [12:49] | Congresswoman Dean | "We must not normalize this erratic, unhinged, untethered to reality behavior of the President." | | [15:52] | Congresswoman Dean | "Our children are going to bed afraid, afraid of the Americans... honest to God, this is our NATO ally of 75 years." | | [21:53] | Senator Blumenthal | "What is really terrifying about this memo is not only that it directs agents to engage in blatantly unconstitutional action, but it is also from the acting director of ICE..." | | [38:10] | Peter Katz | "I have no idea what Jack's political persuasions are, if he even has them. It never came into discussion in any case that we ever talked about." |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s dictator remarks & Iceland blunder: [01:06]–[07:05]
• Fake crisis and “Greenland deal”: [08:10]–[11:47]
• Congresswoman Dean on diplomatic fallout: [12:49]–[19:28]
• Whistleblower ICE memo – Senator Blumenthal: [21:53]–[25:47]
• Legal chaos at DOJ and Fed/ Raskin: [25:57]–[34:04]
• Preview of Jack Smith hearing & Peter Katz interview: [36:37]–[40:58]
• Ted Cruz segment: [41:09]–End

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Tone and Style

The episode balances sharp, often biting analysis with serious reporting and first-hand accounts, frequently employing sarcasm and incredulity to highlight the absurdity of Trump’s actions and statements. Emotional interviews bring in the real-world impact on allies and the American public, while expert testimony provides sober legal and procedural context.

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This summary captures all of the episode’s major themes and moments. For listeners who missed the episode, it offers a guide to the latest developments in Trump’s ongoing controversies, the erosion of institutional norms, and how key lawmakers and officials are responding.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Peter Katz]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Donald Trump]

Usually they say he's a horrible dictator type person. I'm a dictator. But sometimes you need a dictator.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now that of course, was the man who currently occupies the Oval Office saying sometimes you need a dictator and basically owning up to being one. A profoundly doesn't matter how many times he says it. Disturbing, disturbing sentiment from the man who's supposed to be leading the world's most powerful democracy. So why didn't that statement dominate all the headlines today? We hear talking about it. But why didn't it dominate the headlines? Well, in part because we already know he sees himself as a dictator based on his tyrannical approach to governing. And also because on the same day at the World Economic Forum in Davos, when he proudly owned up to being a dictator, his shocking disconnection from reality was also on full display in the speech. I mean, today, before an audience of world leaders, Trump rambled for over an hour, railing against our allies, including the host nation of Switzerland, insulting Joe Biden, lamenting that windmills are losers, and also reiterating his plans to take over Greenland. Of course, Trump has been obsessed with the idea of the US Taking control of Greenland for nearly a decade. This the man has been fixated on it since his first term. I mean, Donald Trump has given more thought to annexing Greenland, I think it's safe to say, than he has given to most Geopolitical issues, which is why it was so remarkable when today Donald Trump could not seem to remember exactly which territory he has long been completely obsessed with annexing.

[Donald Trump]

I'm helping NATO, and until the last few days, when I told them about Iceland, they loved me. They called me Daddy, right? Last time, very smart man, said, he's our daddy, he's running it. I was like, running it. I went from running it to being a terrible human being. But now what I'm asking for is a piece of ice, cold and poorly located that can play a vital role in world peace and world protection.

[Rachel Maddow]

Hey, Daddy, I have a question for you. Why are we talking about Iceland all of a sudden? I mean, I thought the territory that you wanted to take over is Greenland, not Iceland. You can see them on the map there, two different countries. But hey, we all make mistakes from time to time. A slip of the tongue. I mean, it's not like you repeated that mistake over and over and over again in front of the entire world, right?

[Donald Trump]

So with all of the money we expend, with all of the blood, sweat and tears, I don't know that they'd be there for us. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money, but that dip is peanuts compared to what it's gone up.

[Rachel Maddow]

That's over and over again. Trump referred to the territory he wanted to take over as Iceland in front of a bunch of world leaders, which again, is an entirely different country and entirely different island, which means there is now an entirely different population sitting around wondering if the American President is going to try and annex their home because he can't remember what word comes before land on the map of allied nations he wants to claim for himself. But hey, I mean, maybe Trump is just feeling sleepy again. We know that happens. Probably just tired from his long trip to Switzerland. I bet he if we went back and listened to his nearly two hour tour de force in the White House briefing room yesterday, you'd find a much more cogent version of what he was trying to say.

[Donald Trump]

As an example, Iceland without tariffs, they wouldn't even be talking to us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Iceland again. I mean, Donald Trump literally cannot remember which country he has long wanted to invade. Remember, this is the guy who claims he is going to start a new Denro doctrine. Don Row doctrine. I mean, I don't even know how to say that. I don't want to know how to say that. Of U.S. control over the entire western half of the globe. What is he going to do when he finds out there's a Uruguay and a Paraguay? What is he going to do now, given the international crisis that Trump's Greenland's ambitions have set off? His repeated flub obviously caused the attention of reporters in the room. And News Nation's Libby Dean posted this from the event. Quote, during his World Economic Forum remarks, President Trump appeared to mix up Greenland and Iceland around three times. What? I just showed you them, you just saw them on your screen. That's a very straightforward description of what we all witnessed with our own eyes, what we all heard with our own ears. But since this administration will not abide by any reporting, that doesn't sound like a North Korean state media broadcast. Trump's press secretary immediately fired back, quote, no, he didn't, Libby. His written remarks referred to Greenland as a piece of ice because that's what it is. You're the only one mixing anything up here. Okay? As a sidebar, your written remarks have nothing to do with what you say repeatedly, publicly, out of your mouth of the President of the United States. So that doesn't address it, but that's what that is. That's what the press secretary said. So I realize that the American right has just spent the last few weeks trying to convince us that what we see on videotape is not actually the God's honest truth, what we see with our own eyes. But this is really kind of another level of reality denial here. I mean, there's no special camera angle or selective edit or spin that can make you believe this is anything other than what it was. The President of the United States saying the word Iceland over and over again.

[Donald Trump]

When I told him about Iceland, they loved me. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.

[Rachel Maddow]

Iceland is not Greenland. Greenland is not Iceland. You don't have to be an expert in foreign policy to know that. Anyone who has ever glanced at a map could tell you that. I mean, anyone who may have watched Maida Dax 2 could also tell you that. Wait a minute. I thought Iceland was covered with ice. Iceland? No, it's very green. I thought Greenland was green. Greenland is covered with ice. And Iceland is very nice. Ah. Listen, anyone out there who knows anyone in the White House, if you're trying to help him, get it straight, that video is available, you can find it, and maybe it's in his terms. But that's really where we are, everyone. I mean, a kid's movie from the 90s is literally operating at a higher level of geographical understanding than the President of the United States right now. And God love him, there are still too many people in the American press who are trying to analyze all of this through some serious foreign policy lens where words are chosen with intention and delicate diplomatic meaning. I mean, today during that same event, Donald Trump also said this about his plans for Greenland.

[Donald Trump]

We probably won't get anything unless I decide to use excessive strength and force where we would be frankly unstoppable. But I won't do that. Okay, now everyone's saying, oh good, now.

[Rachel Maddow]

Let'S hope that's the case. And certainly that's what we should all hope for. Immediately after Trump made those comments, news organizations everywhere started running with headlines like this. Trump rules out using military force to acquire Greenland. In Davos speech, Trump says he will not use force to acquire Greenland. Trump rules out using force to acquire Greenland. Now let's hope again that's the case. But Trump literally started that sentence with we probably won't get anything unless I decide to use excessive strength and force where we would be free, frankly, unstoppable. That phrase that sounds to me a little bit more like a mob boss telling you he doesn't wanna have to break your legs, but he will if he needs to than a president completely ruling out military action. Needless to say, none of this is reasoned, well thought out diplomacy. But some people still insist on acting like it all is. Remember that it was just four days ago that Trump threatened to slap steep tariffs on eight European countries because the continent had refused to recognize his ridiculous claim to Greenland. That sent the stock market crashing as investors grappled with the idea that Trump was planning to effectively punish people in his own country by raising prices in order to pressure the rest of the world to give him part of another country. But Trump loves almost nothing more than creating a fake crisis in order to swoop in and behave like he is solving the crisis that he created. And so today after his long winding speech, the President took to social media to announce that he had met with the leader of NATO and quote, formed the framework of a future deal with respect to Greenland and that he would quote, not be imposing the tariffs. And if we needed any more proof that this was all some sort of BS face saving effort, just listen to the way Trump described his so called deal in an interview with CNBC just moments later.

[Donald Trump]

Well, we have a concept of a deal it looks like we have pretty much a concept of a deal, a.

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

Deal of ownership, a deal.

[Donald Trump]

Well, it's a little bit complex, but we'll explain it down the line.

[Rachel Maddow]

Little complex. We'll explain it down the line. That's not guys out of policy wonk. And yet his complete lack of detail for a fake plan designed to solve a crisis he created did not stop some Fox commentators from treating him like a conquering hero. Historic national security F. It's really hard not to see this through the lens.

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

Of the art of the deal.

[Rachel Maddow]

A lot of this is classic Donald Trump negotiating status. He goes in the bull in the china shop.

[Peter Katz]

People think he's going to use force.

[Rachel Maddow]

Then when he takes force off the.

[Peter Katz]

Table, they're all like, phew, love him.

[Rachel Maddow]

Or hate him, when he leaves that.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Room, everybody there felt like America first threw up all over them.

[Rachel Maddow]

I mean, I can't argue that last point, I suppose. But unfortunately for the Fox News crowd, things got a little awkward when the very NATO leader Trump claims to have inked this deal with went on the very same network to tell the very same viewers what is really in this deal. What I don't hear is Greenland still. Is it still under the kingdom of.

Denmark in this framework deal? That issue did not come up anymore.

[Donald Trump]

In my conversations tonight, Mr. President.

[Rachel Maddow]

Didn't come up. Trump did not mention Greenland, I guess it sounds like, while negotiating his supposed Greenland deal, did he forget about the reason he caused this diplomatic crisis in the first place? Did he accidentally make a deal to acquire Iceland? Or can we all accept the obvious truth that Trump once again chickened out and walked it all back? I mean, and I'm fine with that in this case. In most cases of things he's out there blasting around, he's going to do. See, all Trump has managed to do with his ridiculous Greenland obsession is further destroy America's relationships with some of our closest allies. And it's left to serious lawmakers to try and pick up the pieces. Joining me now is one of those lawmakers, Congressman Madeline Dean is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee who just returned home from Davos. There's so much to ask you about. Thank you for being here. First of all, I really just skimmed what was in the speech this morning. Just let me start by asking you what your takeaway from all of that was.

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

Well, I was quite busy today, but I did have a chance in the car on my way to work to hear some of it, and it was jaw dropping. And it shouldn't be. We should be used to this president by now, but fortunately we're not. We must not normalize this erratic, unhinged, untethered to reality behavior of the President. I thank you for that introduction and giving me some of the snippets of what was said. I know one of the great takeaways was the fact that he said military force is off the table. I put in parentheses for now because this president is so erratic. By Friday, that could be back on the table. I just returned from Davos, but much more importantly from three days in Copenhagen where 10 of us, Democrats, Republicans, House and Senate members met with the prime ministers of both Greenland, not Iceland, Greenland and Denmark, met with members of Parliament from both areas, met with foreign ministers, met with business leaders, industry leaders. And what every one of them expressed to us was just devastation at the disrespect, the breach of trust, the breach of an alliance of 75 years. Denmark was a founding member along with the United States of NATO. They were the first to step up after 9 11. You know this stuff better than I from your past experience, both in a White House and a State Department, the importance of our allies, our NATO allies, they could not understand. And frankly, we as elected members of Congress could not understand the President's ambitions and threats toward our NATO friend and ally.

[Rachel Maddow]

It's really, it's such an important point that they came to our defense after 9 11, as NATO did. And when Trump keeps saying out there, they won't come join us, they won't be with us, that is one of the biggest examples, the biggest example in us in global history of NATO coming to the defense of a partner. And it was in response to a tragedy that happened on our own soil. The point you raised about distrust and trust, I hear this so often when I talk to former colleagues and national security officials in the fear of kind of the damage done. It feels different than the first term. And I want to. I don't know if you may not have seen this because I know you had a very busy day today, but one of the things that the Prime Minister of Canada, Canada said today, and they have been one of our oldest and closest and firmest friends forever, was that the international rules based order is not only over, but false. He said, we are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. And as much as it may sound to people like, oh, it's Canada, there's so much going on here, this hugely matters. And it feels to me like it means, it's an indication it's very hard to recover from this. But what do you think?

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

Well, it's funny that you mention that. I told my team today, please print me out Mark Carney's speech, which I have read, I actually brought it sitting in the green room. It's a stunning speech. It's a strong speech from the middle countries who feel disrespected, but they do not feel powerless and they are not powerless. So I very much respect Mark Carney's words. And it's so sad that we've come to that point. Can you imagine our closest trading partner, Canada, one of our greatest trading partners, Denmark, when we go back and we had the privilege of laying a wreath at the flame where the 50 names of those who died, Danish soldiers who died, people who were 40 years old, senior soldiers, down to young people who died in the service of our country. They fought and died along with us. So we were there to mark that. One of the most stunning things that we heard was from the Greenlandic members of Parliament. And one of them said, do you know what's going on in our country, in our territory, on our beautiful, beautiful island? Our children are going to bed afraid, afraid of the Americans. They are sleepless. When planes came into the base, they said, is that the Americans coming to get us? Honest to God, this is our NATO ally of 75 years. The other inane things, the things that are so unhinged the President revealed today in his comments, he is untethered to reality. He is uncaring about history. He couldn't care less about friendships, allies, partnerships, economic, geographic, political, military, whatever they are. And his idiotic, mistaken four or five times talking about Greenland, his obsession and calling it Iceland, we're in a world of hurt. The good news is today that fortunately, through that conversation, and this is literally what we did, as I said, Republican senators were with us and Democratic senators and members of the House Democrats. And we said in meetings, private, closed or even more open, there must be a framework to work this out. And then you saw a concept of a framework for this president. I'm reminded that, you know that Hans Christian Andersen was the native son of Denmark and he wrote the tale the Emperor's New Clothes. And we know about that. I've thought about that so much, sadly, in the first administration and in this administration, I have a beautiful illustrated version of it, the Emperor's New Clothes. And you know what goes on there? The emperor wants the most gorgeous of suits. And so his courtiers hire thieves, frankly, and they show them on the loom, this beautiful fabric, the most beautiful fabric of all of course, there's no fabric whatsoever. But the courtiers can't believe the truth because they're afraid to tell it to this mad emperor. And you know who tells the mad emperor? Children. Yeah. As he walks through the streets and he's naked, the children of Denmark have called out the nakedness of this president. His naked ignorance of history and facts, of allies, of partners of NATO. The nakedness of wanting to possess an ally. They're not an asset, they're an ally.

[Rachel Maddow]

Congresswoman Madeline Dean, now we're all going to think about that story. That's a chilling example and so on the nose. Thank you for bringing your knowledge of what's happening over there. Some hope to all of us.

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

I have hope.

[Rachel Maddow]

I really appreciate you being here tonight.

[Congresswoman Madeleine Dean]

Thank you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Okay, coming up, as ICE agents continue to terrorize Minneapolis, a bombshell whistleblower report just revealed that federal immigration officers are now claiming sweeping power to forcibly enter people's homes without a judicial warrant. This is brand new tonight. And to state the obvious, this is blatantly unconstitutional. Senator Richard Blumenthal's office just got its hands on that shocking whistleblower report. He is already demanding an investigation and he joins me next. Today we saw more shocking images out of the Trump administration's excessive and brutal immigration operations in Minnesota. We watched three federal agents pinning a protester to the ground and pepper spraying him directly into the face. We also watched the border control commander running those operations, Greg Provino, throwing a canister of green gas at protesters. You can see it on the screen just to see how insane this is. It's obviously hard to believe that Trump's DHS agents could get any more lawless. But tonight we learned that a whistleblower has shared a secret ICE policy memo asserting that federal agents have the authority to enter homes without a judicial warrant. I don't say this lightly, but on the long list of blatantly illegal, blatantly unconstitutional, blatantly un American things this administration has tried, this is right up there near the top. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. His office obtained that jaw dropping whistleblower memo I just mentioned. And he has also been leading, leading tirelessly, an ongoing investigation into the actions of federal immigration agents. Senator, thank you so much for being here with me tonight. I just. Whistleblowers are how we know about so much during this period of time. And we know about this memo thanks to a whistleblower coming to your office because of all of the work that you have done over the course of time. I Just kind of gave a highlight of the outrageous nature of this memo. But tell us more about what is in this secret memo. What should people watching know about it?

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

What is really terrifying about this memo is not only that it directs agents to engage in blatantly unconstitutional action, but it is also from the acting director of ice, Todd Lyon. The highest levels of ice, in effect, are saying that agents should break down your door, ransack your home, terrify your children, arrest or detain you without a judicial warrant. Americans ought to be terrified as well as shock. And it simply means that the law means nothing to these agents. We've seen it on the streets, but now we know that it is authorized at the highest level of ice. This lawlessness is linked to the leaders like Kristi Noem and Todd Lyon. And I think it cries out for accountability. That's the reason why I'm continuing to pursue this investigation, which is indicative of a pattern. What we did in our investigation was we showed in a report about two dozen American citizens who were dragged from their cars, brutally assaulted, detained for days, deprived of access to doctors or their lawyers, American citizens. And that report gave these whistleblowers the trust or credibility in our office to come forward with this shocking hidden memorandum. And I give them a lot of courage for their. A lot of credit for their courage.

[Rachel Maddow]

They certainly deserve that. We wouldn't know about it without them. Sometimes I think we sound. Or people who talk publicly sound hyperbolic when they say this is the worst thing, it's unconstitutional. But I just wanted to ask you, I mean, you've spent your career defending the law essentially before you were elected to the Senate. You're still doing that today, but you were a U.S. attorney and the Attorney General from the state of Connecticut. Just put into perspective the notion that people, ICE agents could go into up to a home and without a judicial warrant, just go into their home. How lawless is this assertion in this memo?

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Jen, that's really a fundamental core question here, because I've worked over the years with state local police, as well as federal agents, the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and there is an innate respect for the Constitution that a warrant, a judicial warrant from a judge, not just an administrative officer in a form that they call I205, is necessary to arrest someone, break into their home if necessary, and it is based on probable cause. Agents honestly have come to me when I was a lawyer and said, we want to be sure we have enough to go to the judge. And that is generally the kind of respect for the law that is fundamental to our Constitution and the rule of law. And it makes those agents and police safer. Because think of it for a moment. You're in your apartment and all of a sudden, mass unidentified men, armed are at your door threatening to break it down and ransack your home. Some people would be inclined to resist. A warrant protects those individual agents as well as the people whose homes are approached. So arrests require these judicial warrants if they're to be done under these circumstances. And the pattern here is that we've seen and we've documented in my report that ICE is lawless and reckless and it makes these communities and our nation less safe. It ought to be going back to enforcing the law and respecting the law.

[Rachel Maddow]

Senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you so much for bringing this report to all of us. We really appreciate you being here tonight.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Rachel Maddow]

Coming up, more news today that Donald Trump's efforts to go after his political enemies is not going so well for Donald Trump. Congressman Jamie Raskin is standing by and he joins me next. You remember Lindsey Halligan. She's the former Trump personal attorney, former insurance lawyer, and Trump White House staffer with no prosecutorial experience at all, who Trump tried to install as a U.S. attorney to prosecute his perceived enemies. Well, last night we got the news that she is finally gone. And it turns out illegally installing an unqualified henchwoman to go after your political enemies is, well, not legal. In November, a federal judge dismissed the indictments against Letitia James and James Comey and officially ruled that Halligan had been unlawfully appointed. And then just yesterday, another federal judge ordered Halligan to stop referring to herself as the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. That stings, because legally, she was not the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. The judge then threatened disciplinary sanctions for any government lawyer who continued to refer to her as U.S. attorney in legal filings. Wouldn't you know it, just hours after that order, Halligan quit, leaving Trump without one of his hand picked legal puppets in the position of doing his dirty work. And we're seeing something very similar play out at the Fed because the Fed Board of Governors is of course, supposed to be independent. It's supposed to set monetary policy without taking politics into consideration. But Trump doesn't like that. He wants to be able to control the Fed himself. So for months now, he has been trying to illegally fire Fed board members. Earlier this month, the Department of Justice subpoenaed the Fed and threatened a criminal indictment against Fed Chair Jerome Powell. The Trump administration ginned up similarly dubious allegations against Fed Board Governor Lisa Cook. Both Powell and Cook have stood their ground and refused to be forced out. And today, the question of whether Trump can legally fire Lisa Cook was heard by the Supreme Court. And based on how things went today, it appears likely that the high court will rule against Trump and for Lisa Cook. Now, I'm sure that Trump is going to keep trying to have his way here, but it's good to remember that pushback can work from a lot of places, including in the courts. Joining me now is Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. Okay, always so much to talk with you about. I just want to start with Lindsey Halligan because today I just gave an overview of how we all got here. A lot of people watching have been following this. We also learned that new instructions were sent to prosecutors in the Eastern District of Virginia this morning instructing them to just listen. Todd Blanche, of course, the Deputy Attorney General and former personal attorney of Trump instead of Halligan as a signatory on their legal filings. You know, we never wanna be jumping to conclusions or worrying about things, but what do you make of that? Is that something you're concerned about?

What kills me about this situation is that the Trump prosecutors are so incompetent and so illegitimate that even Trump judges are trying to get rid of them at this point.

Well, that's true.

I mean, so you know, Halligan was a disaster from the very beginning. And you remember that Trump got rid of a well respected Republican U.S. attorney there who simply refused to do his blatantly political vendetta dirty work against Comey.

True. And Eric Siebert was his name. And now I guess so. The reason I ask about Todd Blanche is just cuz it feels like, I mean, they posted the job listing for a new U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. But it feels like for anybody watching out there who's worried that Trump is just gonna do the same thing, like try to jam a Lindsey Halligan type person into that role. Can he do that or no?

Well, at this point, that's all they've got. I mean, there's nobody else really who wants to go anywhere near the administration. I mean, Todd Blanche is a great example. He was Donald Trump's criminal defense attorney. He's gone in and continues basically to operate like a defense attorney for Donald Trump personally, although he's the number two person at the Department of Justice. You remember when Ghislaine Maxwell first got subpoenaed to go to Congress, he immediately you know, flew over to see Ghislaine Maxwell, not to try to determine whether she would finally come forth and name all of the other people implicated in these horrific sex crimes against children, but rather to make sure that she'd have nothing untoward to say about Donald Trump. And that's the role that he plays. The amazing thing right now, Jen, is the whole world, not just the whole country, but the whole world, can see that Donald Trump is committed to, to nothing other than his own whims and desires and interests. And he's surrounded by a bunch of people who want to enable him in every way. And that's why tomorrow is a big day for us when Special Counsel Jack Smith comes before the Judiciary Committee.

No question about it, and we'll all be watching it very closely. What are you expecting from that tomorrow?

Well, you know, on the Democratic side, we've got one very clear objective, which is to let him speak and to protect him from all the rock, cocky, horror picture show tactics that the Republicans are going to be trying to throw at him, to bait him and knock him off track. But look, we're talking about one of America's great prosecutors who has now deeply schooled the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee as to what the ethical and professional responsibilities are of a real prosecutor in America. And he has testified publicly with remarkable concision and compelling logical rigor that Donald Trump acted to engage in a series of crimes to overthrow the 2020 presidential election. And Jack Smith will testify about how he had overwhelming proof, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, to demonstrate every element of the four different offenses he charged him with. Now, he's not going to be able to speak with the same kind of profuse detail about Donald Trump's pilfering and hoarding illegally of various national security documents and classified documents because of this absurd order that still stands from Trump sycophant Judge Eileen Cannon down in Florida. He is going to be limited to just being able to speak about the things that were in his indictment and that are already on the public record. But we'll make that clear to everybody. But our real point is to try to just give him a platform to speak to America, because, you know, so many of the Republicans said back when the violent insurrection happened and the attempted coup happened, well, we don't really need to impeach Trump. I mean, this is kind of where McConnell went in the Senate. We don't really need to impeach him because he can be prosecuted later. Then they have done everything in their power, including on the Roberts Court, to blockade the prosecution. And so this is his opportunity as the special counsel to come forward and speak to America about what exactly he found, what it is he was prepared to show in court and what he believes about Donald Trump's conduct on January 6th. And he will be going up against an avalanche of propaganda and disinformation that we've seen over the last several weeks since January 6th, as Donald Trump continues to insist that he won a presidential election that he lost by more than 7 million votes, 306 to 232 in the electoral College.

No question about it. We are going to this is a perfect lead up because we are ending the show with somebody who has known Jack Smith for a very long time, who worked alongside him for years to talk more about him and what to expect tomorrow. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you for being here with me as always.

You bet.

All right. As I just mentioned, I'm going to talk to someone who has known Jack Smith for a long time, who worked alongside him. They started working at the Manhattan DA's office on the exact same day they worked together in the Eastern District of New York. And he joins me for an exclusive interview when we come back. Former special counsel Jack Smith will testify before the House Judiciary Committee tomorrow in what's sure to be a performative, fiery hearing, at least from the Republican side, because they have a lot to prove. I think it comes just a month after Smith sat with for an eight hour closed door deposition under subpoena. And based on the video of that deposition which we've seen and played here on the show, it's clear that despite Republican efforts to trip him up repeatedly, Smith is pretty unflappable. So tomorrow's public hearing, we should expect Republicans to go to even greater lengths to try to throw him off of his game. Get ready for some interruptions, some antics, some performing for daddy watching in the White House. Jack Smith will be entering a political lion's den tomorrow. But despite what Republicans love to claim, Smith himself has never engaged in that kind of partisanship. In fact, he's avoided the spotlight almost entirely, letting his work speak for itself throughout his career. Tomorrow, that avoidance of the spotlight is kind of gonna change, with Smith set to speak live in front of cameras for hours on end, which means my next guest insights are more relevant than ever. Peter Katz has known Jack smith for over 30 years, dating back to when they both started on the same day at the Manhattan District Attorney's office. He later worked with Smith for several more years in the U.S. attorney's office for the Eastern District of New York. Peter, thank you so much for joining me here. I think so many people out there, the only thing they've seen of Jack Smith is the video from that deposition. And I think you have such insight into who he actually is, which I think a lot of people want to know more about. So tell us a little bit. I mean, you worked alongside him in multiple jobs. Tell us a little bit about what it was like working alongside him for so many years.

[Peter Katz]

Jack is a career politician. Politician. Jack is a career prosecutor. That's all he's done his whole life. And that's what you get to see. He is someone who looks at the facts and applies the law to it and comes up with a conclusion. That's what he does. No more and no less.

[Rachel Maddow]

He's somebody. I mentioned this earlier. He keeps a pretty low profile. He kept one as special counsel. I used to say that we didn't even really know the sound of his voice, which I think he probably preferred. And he did seem to do so in his prior work at the Hague and other places as well. So many lawyers nowadays are very public and very visible. Why do you think he's avoided the spotlight so much, even after the cases against Trump were, of course, shut down?

[Peter Katz]

Well, that wasn't his job. His job was to investigate a case. His job was to establish the evidence and find the evidence, and then his job was to determine if it applied to the law and then charge somebody. That's what he had to do. His job was not to go public. His job wasn't to talk to the media. His job wasn't to be out in the public eye. His job was to do his job, and that's what he did.

[Rachel Maddow]

We've seen Republicans try very hard to cast Smith as being politically motivated, but he's worked under administrations of both parties, what have you. I mean, working alongside him before he was in the spotlight, observed about his politics, or lack thereof over the 30 years you've known him.

[Peter Katz]

So we worked on cases together, and we had offices next to each other for many, many years. We've talked about probably hundreds of cases, and over 30 years, Hadi can't even count how many conversations. I have no idea what Jack's political persuasions are, if he even has them. It never came into discussion in any case that we ever talked about. Just didn't matter. Even when he was at Public Integrity, at Main justice, we talked about his work generally. It didn't matter to him whether someone was a Democrat or a Republican, whether someone was white or black. Whether someone was a man or a woman, none of that mattered. What mattered was the evidence that he could gather what he could prove in court, apply the law and then make a decision about what to do.

[Rachel Maddow]

It is really I'm just gonna state cuz I had no idea what you were gonna say here. That you have no idea. You had no idea what his political affiliation or aspersions were. Working alongside him for 30 years. That's pretty remarkable. Let's talk about tomorrow a little bit. It is remarkable. I just have to restate that we expect some Republican lawmakers to cast aspersions over a couple of issues and we'll see what they do. One is around these phone records or toll records. I've talked about this on this show before and obviously Jack Smith lays out in his report that is public the fact that he had to go to a grand jury to get access. The fact that it was actually Trump who told the selected these people essentially cuz they were calls with people around a set period of time around January 6th. What should people know and understand about the obsession with the toll or phone records who were just tuning into this and are going to hear it a lot tomorrow?

[Peter Katz]

Well, what I can tell you, having been a prosecutor myself for a long time and knowing Jack, having done that job for 30 years, getting toll records is a common practice. It's done in thousands of cases every single year. I can't really speak to this case because I don't know all of the details about it. But I can tell you that.

[Senator Richard Blumenthal]

None.

[Peter Katz]

Of that surprised me. It is a common investigative tool that's used and it's one that he obviously used in this case as well.

[Rachel Maddow]

Is there anything about Jack Smith that people would be surprised by? Does he run 20 miles a day? Does he only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches? Everybody's very focused on him. People want to know more anything about him.

[Peter Katz]

He is an unbelievable athlete. He runs and trains extensively. He's a great cyclist and triathlete. He has been doing that for the last 25 or 30 years. It's pretty impressive.

[Rachel Maddow]

I think that discipline is probably what we're going to see tomorrow. Thank you so much, Peter Katz for joining us. I really appreciate it.

[Peter Katz]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Quick programming note for everyone tomorrow night. Rachel is going to lead special coverage of the Jack Smith hearing starting at 8pm Eastern. We'll all be back at the table to break it all down and you will not want to miss that. And up next, Cancun Cruise strikes again. That's next. So go ahead and buy your groceries now because a potentially catastrophic winter storm is set to hit over 35 states this weekend. In Texas, the entire state is expected to plunge to below freezing temperatures starting Friday. And I feel pretty confident the storm is going to be a particularly bad one. Why? Well, because Ted Cruz is jetting out of the state again. He was photographed on a flight headed for sunny Laguna Beach, California. So if you feel like you're having deja vu, that's because back in 2021, Cruz jetted off to Cancun, Mexico just as a catastrophic winter storm collapsed Texas power grid. Now, his office confirmed the senators traveled to a local news outlet, but they say it is simply a pre planned work trip. Okay. And they assure us that he will be back to Texas before the storm is projected to hit. We'll see either way if Cruz heading to the beach in some sort of winter storm groundhog signal. I don't know. I'd get those groceries now. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter, from plumbing to electrical roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Hire high quality [e-mail].