Trump offers oddly meandering answer to rumors of his death

Summary

---

The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Trump offers oddly meandering answer to rumors of his death
Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (with Chris Hayes as lead guest host)
Featured Guests: Norm Eisen (Democracy Defenders Fund), Sky Perryman (Democracy Forward), Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA), Jacob Soboroff (MSNBC Reporter)
Main Theme: Unpacking Trump’s recent public absence, mounting rumors about his health and ties to the Epstein files, and the ongoing legal/political battle for transparency and justice.

---

OVERVIEW

This episode centers on several major stories of national significance: Donald Trump's unusual week-long public absence—fueling viral rumors about his health, the political spectacle and legal maneuvering around the release of the Jeffrey Epstein files, increasing pushback to Trump’s policies in the courts, and deeply personal reporting on the impact of new immigration raids and deportations. The episode features in-depth interviews with legal experts Norm Eisen and Sky Perryman, top House Democrat Robert Garcia, and field reporting from Jacob Soboroff.

---

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Trump’s Absence & the “Death” Rumors

(01:01–04:34)

• Trump disappeared from the public eye for nearly a week, longer than at any time since becoming president, leading to a social media firestorm speculating about his health and well-being.

• Chris Hayes plays and analyzes Trump’s rambling response to being asked directly about the rumors. Trump alternates between claiming he never saw the rumors, then saying he did hear about them, illustrating his tendency for circuitous statements.

  “Really, I didn’t see that. … No, I heard that. I get reports.” – Donald Trump (03:12–03:39)
  “In the span of approximately 60 seconds in the Oval Office today, really can’t make this stuff up sometimes.” – Chris Hayes (04:34)

• The episode hypothesizes reasons for Trump lying low:

  • Brutal new polling for Americans' optimism.
  • Nationwide protests over Trump’s domestic policies, including against military deployments and pro-billionaire actions.
  • Mounting pressure related to his Epstein ties.
  • Recent court defeats blocking his policies.

2. The Epstein Files: Transparency or Diversion?

(01:01–07:53; 24:24–34:25)

• The House Oversight Committee, at GOP urging, released 33,000 pages of Epstein-related materials. However, 97% of these were already public; newly released information was minimal and not substantive (no "client list" or new revelations).

• NBC and Rep. Robert Garcia highlight GOP strategy to overwhelm the public with document dumps while hiding the essential material.

  “It’s a cover up. … They’re pouring these documents that are already public … while concealing the most essential documents.” – Norm Eisen (15:13)

• Survivors of Epstein and Maxwell’s crimes met privately with lawmakers; their frustration and pain highlight the human toll of the political stonewalling.

  “It is heartbreaking to go on the news all the time and see all of this and then it’s five years, six years later, here we are again.” – Nori Sante Ramos, Epstein survivor (26:24)

• A bipartisan discharge petition is in play in the House to force a real vote on releasing all the files. The White House is reportedly pressuring GOP members to avoid signing.

  “The White House is involved in a massive cover up here...” – Rep. Robert Garcia (31:36)

3. Legal Pushback and Litigation Strategy

(10:04–22:19)

• Courts are increasingly halting Trump initiatives: a judge ruled his military deployments in LA illegal (violation of the Posse Comitatus Act); other courts blocked tariffs and child deportations.

• The legal resistance, as detailed by Norm Eisen and Sky Perryman, is multifaceted and decentralized: state attorneys general, advocacy groups, and unions all pitch in.

  “He’s trying to overwhelm the system. And so we need to meet that with rule of law shock and awe.” – Norm Eisen (17:18) “These are the American people’s cases… We see all these groups coming together.” – Sky Perryman (18:33)

• Discuss the mixed record at the Supreme Court, which only takes a small percent of cases, meaning many wins for the resistance remain at lower court levels.

• Public pressure complements legal action, sometimes forcing the administration to back down even outside of courtroom wins.

  “Standing up and being clear that we will take these cases everywhere … we are going to force the administration to back down.” – Sky Perryman (21:05)

4. The “Two Weeks” Trump Poker Tell

(34:25–35:00)

• Chris Hayes explains how Trump often avoids giving substantive answers or making real progress by setting “two week” deadlines that he routinely ignores.

  “Over the next two weeks, we’re going to be sending letters out in about a week and a half. Two weeks. … I’ll let you know in about two weeks.” – Donald Trump (compilation clips) (34:25–34:52)

• This tactic, as pointed out by European leaders, continues to hinder diplomatic and policy progress, e.g., on Ukraine-Russia negotiations.

5. Personalizing the Immigration Crisis: The Story of Nori Sante Ramos

(34:25–45:07)

• Jacob Soboroff shares the story of Nori Sante Ramos and her mother, deported to Guatemala despite years of safe life and achievement in the US.

• The Trump administration was caught in the act of attempting to deport 600 unaccompanied minors over the holiday weekend,, defying court orders.

• Nori, now 18, describes her constant fear in Guatemala and the pain of being suddenly ripped away from her community.

  “Yes, every day I’m just worried, especially [for] my mom. They almost killed her. So I’m really, really scared.” – Nori Sante Ramos (41:24)

• Soboroff and Hayes emphasize that these are not "bad actors" but vulnerable young people and families, given no due process.

  “Does that look like the worst of the worst to you, Jen? It doesn’t look like the worst of the worst to me.” – Jacob Soboroff (44:35)

---

MEMORABLE QUOTES & TIMESTAMPS

• Trump on his own death rumors:

  “Really, I didn’t see that. You know, I have heard it’s sort of crazy, but last week I did numerous news conferences, all successful.” – Donald Trump (03:39)

• Chris Hayes on Trump’s flip-flop:

  “We went from Trump saying he hadn’t heard about the rumors of his death, to Trump saying he did hear about them, to then back to Trump saying he hadn’t heard anything … in the span of approximately 60 seconds…” (04:34)

• Norm Eisen on the legal barrage:

  “We need to meet that with rule of law shock and awe.” (17:18)

• Sky Perryman on public pressure:

  “We are going to force the administration to back down.” (21:05)

• Rep. Garcia on centering victims:

  “We don’t care how powerful these people are … we’re going to work to get justice for all of them.” (30:53)

• Nori Sante Ramos, deported student:

  “We’re not safe at all here. There’s people, like, looking for my mom. So we’re just scared…” (41:03)

---

IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• [01:01–04:34] — Trump’s absence, the rumor mill, and his meandering answer
• [07:53–10:04] — Epstein file release, survivors demanding full disclosure
• [14:31–22:19] — Legal experts Eisen & Perryman: litigation strategies against the administration
• [24:24–34:25] — Rep. Garcia on the lack of transparency, the real status of the Epstein files, and pressure on Republicans
• [34:25–35:00] — Trump’s history of “two weeks” evasions
• [39:50–45:07] — Immigration focus: the story of Nori Sante Ramos

---

EPISODE IN CONTEXT

This episode illustrates the growing resistance to Trump’s autocratic and often extra-legal governance, highlighting the necessity of both hard-fought legal battles and grassroots activism. The intertwining of high-level congressional maneuvering, courtroom drama, and deeply personal narrative storytelling (e.g., the “Nori” story) brings home the ongoing consequences of policy choices and governmental opacity in a raw political moment.

---

TAKEAWAYS FOR LISTENERS

• Trump’s public absences and evasions fuel conspiracy and mask deeper problems for his administration:
  • Legal defeats, popular dissent, and unresolved scandals.
• Efforts to obscure the truth about Epstein and powerful figures are being actively countered by bipartisan coalitions and tenacious survivors.
• Legal and grassroots resistance remains robust and is achieving meaningful (though sometimes partial) wins.
• The human cost of political gamesmanship, as in the “Nori” deportation, cannot be overstated.

---

FINAL NOTE

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that, behind headlines and document dumps, real people continue to fight for justice and dignity—and that sustained public pressure and coordinated legal action can shift the balance, even in dark times.

Transcript

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Need to restock inventory, cover seasonal dips, or manage payroll. Ondeck's small business line of credit provides immediate access to funds up to $200,000 exactly when your business needs it. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and full control over repayment, you can tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. Apply [e-mail] and funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amount subject to lender approval.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mob. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com.

[Chris Hayes]

There'S some news on the Epstein files. Today the House oversight committee released 33,000 pages of materials relating to the late child sex predator Jeffrey Epstein just in the last couple of hours. Now it's the first batch of materials that the Republican led committee received from the Department of Justice under subpoena last month. And 33,000 pages may sound like a lot, and if you're just tuning into this, you may think that sounds like a lot, who knows. But it turns out that the vast majority of these materials are not, in fact, new at all. Democrats on the committee who spent a week inspecting the files behind closed doors say that 97% of the materials released today were already public. In fact, according to Congressman ro Khanna, these 33,000 pages represent only 1% of the total number of Epstein files, just 1%. Now tonight I'm going to talk with Congressman Robert Garcia. I just mentioned that to Chris. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. And we're gonna talk about what's new in these files, what's not new in these files, which is the overwhelming majority. There's a tiny, tiny, tiny bit new. And we're also gonna talk about the apparent strategy by House Republicans and the Department of Justice to keep recirculating old information in hopes, I guess, of wearing us all out. Not clear. That seems to be part of the strategy. So we Have a lot to get to tonight, but I'm gonna start with Donald Trump because until this afternoon, he, he had been basically absent from the public eye since last Tuesday, which was his longest stretch away from cameras since becoming president. And that absence, and you may have seen this over the weekend if you looked at any social media platform, prompted quite a wave of online speculation about the president's health and well being. So today, when he re emerged from his absence for an event in the Oval Office, even my buddy Peter Doocy from Fox News couldn't resist asking about it.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Something completely different.

[Chris Hayes]

But about a big viral social media.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Trend over the weekend.

[Chris Hayes]

How did you find out over the weekend that you were dead? You see that? No, people didn't see you for a.

[Norm Eisen]

Couple days, 1.3 million user engagements as of Saturday morning about your demise.

[Donald Trump]

Really, I didn't see that.

[Chris Hayes]

Really, I didn't see that, he said. Now, as I mentioned, Trump's prolonged absence from the public eye sparked pretty widespread rumors. You probably saw them. But somehow the guy who is famously online at very odd hours and totally obsessed with his own self image says he didn't see any of it. Let's see what else he had to say about it today.

[Donald Trump]

Really, I didn't see that. You know, I have heard it's sort of crazy, but last week I did numerous news conferences, all successful. They went very well. Like this is going very well. And then I didn't do any for two days. And they said there must be something wrong with him. No, I heard that. I get reports.

[Chris Hayes]

Now that isn't even an accurate summary of his own appearances in public. But that aside, two seconds into his answer, Trump says he had no idea there were rumors of his death. But 30 seconds later, in that same rambling answer, he says he did know about it and then he wasn't even done. He kept going, he kept explaining.

[Donald Trump]

No, I was very active over the weekend. They also knew I went out to visit some people at the, at the club that I own pretty nearby on the Potomac River. And no, I've been very active actually over the weekend. I didn't hear that one. That's pretty serious.

[Chris Hayes]

I didn't hear that one. That's pretty serious stuff. Now, just to be clear, we went in, just a very quick span there, we went from Trump saying he hadn't heard about the rumors of his death to Trump saying he did hear about them from reports to then back to Trump saying he hadn't heard anything about any of it in the span of approximately 60 seconds in the Oval Office today really can't make this stuff up sometimes. And look, we may never know why Donald Trump suddenly spent a week hiding entirely from the American public, but you don't actually need baseless online conspiracies to explain why he might not want to show his face in public right now. I mean, for starters, there's the polling, and boy, is it brutal. Americans are more and more pessimistic about their lives right now. A newly released Wall Street Journal poll finds that the percentage of Americans who think they have a good chance of improving their standard of living has fallen to just 25%, which is a new low in nearly four decades of polling that particular question. Then there's the reaction to Trump playing out in the streets out there. I mean, over the holiday weekend, we saw people protesting this administration all across the country. In Washington, D.C. people demonstrated against Trump's military takeover of the city. We saw big Labor Day protests in Boston and in Chicago and in Atlanta and in Seattle, calling on this administration to stop putting billionaires before workers. We saw similar protests in places like Hartford, Connecticut, and in Lexington, Kentucky, and in Hanahan, South Carolina, and in Madison, Wisconsin. In Broadview, Illinois, people showed up to demand the closure of a local ice prison for immigrants. In Mountain View, California, we saw people line up along the road for a Labor Day protest that stretched 17 miles. Even in places like Coeur d', Alene, Idaho, in a county Trump won by more than 50 points. More than 50 points, people showed up to protest this administration and what it is doing. So maybe that's part of why Donald Trump was so reluctant to show his face in public for a week. Or maybe it's because of his absolute failure to try and make people Forget about his 15 year friendship with child sex predator Jeffrey Epstein. Lord knows that could be a reason. I mean, remember, Trump and his little buddy Mike Johnson sent Congress home early this summer in hopes that everyone would just move on from what Trump refers to as the Epstein hoax. But nearly six weeks later, the pressure to release the Epstein files has not let up. And that is very clear from Congress. Returning to Washington. I mean, today, members of Congress are back, and one of their first orders of business was a closed door meeting with a group of Epstein's victims and their family members, several of whom have been demanding relentlessly that the Trump administration release the full Epstein files. A number of those survivors will appear in a press conference tomorrow morning to share their stories publicly, which will be incredibly powerful and a preview of what we might see. Several of them sat down today with NBC News, Hallie Jackson. To talk about their demand for answers. They have emails, they have flight logs, they have a list they've compiled. Right. And I feel like if they're not going to release this list to the public that everybody wants to see, we.

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Want to know who it is.

[Chris Hayes]

A lot of us survivors. No, we've been compiling lists of our own and we have so many other survivors. Please come forward, you know, and we'll compile, compile our own list and seek justice for, you know, on our own. Now, at the same time today, the bipartisan push to force the release of the Epstein files hit the ground running with Republican Congressman Thomas Massie filing a discharge petition. I was just talking with Chris about this, which is basically a maneuver that would require the speaker of the House to bring legislation forward for a vote. All it requires is 218 signatures. Speaker of the House doesn't have to even approve of it. He doesn't have to be one of them. And Thomas Massie and his Democratic colleague Ro Khanna have already started gathering those votes as of tonight. They've made a little bit of progress on that. Democrats, certainly, but even with Republicans. So maybe it's embarrassment about Epstein that has kept Trump away from the cameras, or maybe it's because he's starting to realize that his campaign to intimidate blue state governors is not working. I mean, this week is supposed to be the start of Trump's latest deployment of federal agents to another American city, this time for deportation raids in Chicago. But after watching Trump attempt similar takeovers in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. democratic elected officials are not exactly going along with his plan. That's putting it mildly Here was Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker doing just that earlier today?

[Jacob Soboroff]

I know how Donald Trump thinks because I've been governor during both of his terms. He has surrounded himself with groveling yes men who are too weak to restrain his most violent and unhinged impulses or who share those impulses. As a governor who cares about the well being of my people, I can't live in a fantasy land where I pretend Trump is not tearing this country apart for personal greed and power. We are ready to fight troop deployments in court, and we will do everything possible to ensure that agents operating inside the confines of this state do so in a legal and ethical manner.

[Chris Hayes]

So maybe the biggest reason Trump has been so shy recently is that a lot of this pushback appears to be working. And nowhere is that more clear in the battle being waged than inside of America's courts. I mean, Today, a federal judge ruled that Trump's decision to deploy military troops into the streets of Los Angeles was completely illegal. In an absolutely blistering 52 page ruling, the judge wrote that Trump violated the Posse Comitatus act in what he called a, quote, top down systemic effort to use military troops to execute various sectors of federal law. He accused the Trump administration of, quote, creating a national police force with the president as its chief. That stinging rebuke comes just days after another federal court ruled that nearly all of Donald Trump's disastrous tariffs are, are clearly illegal. And just this weekend, another judge blocked the Trump administration from deporting 600 unaccompanied children to Guatemala. And we're going to talk about that later in the show, too. But it's not just judges. Last week, the New York Times reported that the Trump administration has been repeatedly rebuked by grand juries in Washington, D.C. while trying to secure indictments against protesters in the city. Over and over and over again, the Trump administration is losing the legal battles over their unpopular and highly illegal agenda. According to Justice Security, of the 389 cases brought against this administration, 125 of them have seen judges block Trump's policies completely, and 10 more have been blocked in part. And there are still another 147 cases still outstanding. A new article out today in the Atlantic explores how the Herculean effort to challenge the Trump administration in court has come together after legal experts began pressing their cases not just in the court of law, but also in the court of public opinion. And those experts stressed the importance of coordinating their efforts among many groups instead of relying on just one organization to fight all of those legal fights. Here's what the piece says. Quote, the plan that emerged was not focused on centralizing a response, but on running a barrage of coordinated efforts. Attorneys general would represent states, advocacy groups would focus on their areas of expertise, and the unions would gather stories from their members and identify plaintiffs who, who could show harm. One plaintiff quoted in the store recalled how he was approached to join one of the lawsuits, saying, quote, the conversation was, you're in 1938 Berlin. Which kind of person are you? This is the closest you're going to get to that moment. It is brave plaintiffs like that and the fearless lawyers who represent them who have managed to keep the Trump administration from completely undoing the rule of law in this country despite all of his efforts to do so. I'll talk to two of those lawyers who are very busy, Norm Eisen and Sky Perryman. In just 90 seconds they join me here on set.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Need to restock inventory, cover seasonal dips, or manage payroll. On Deck's small business line of credit provides immediate access to funds up to $200,000 exactly when your business needs it. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and full control over repayment, you can tackle unexpected expenses without missing a be [e-mail] and funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic. Bank On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Are you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

$15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com your life isn't one size fits all. Every day brings something different. Your style should too. At Maurices, we make it easy to show up feeling comfortable, confident and completely you. Our over 800 stylists are here to help you look your best. From tried and true denim to head turning looks, we've got styles that fit your life and your budget. Fashion made for real life moments, Maurices.

[Chris Hayes]

Joining me now is Norm Eisen, executive chair of the Democracy Defenders Fund, and Sky Perryman, president and CEO of Democracy. Okay, I think between the two of you, I have no idea. Dozens of cases. Hundreds. I have no idea how many cases you are currently negotiating. Probably hundreds of cases against the current administration. But let me just start with you, Norm. I mean, in the last few hours and I started the show talking about this, the Republicans on the House Oversight committee released over 30,000 pages. 97% of it, if not more. But that's according to Democrats in the committee is not new. So there's tiny, tiny parts that are new. You are litigating. You both are litigating a number of cases regarding the Epstein file. Does this release change anything about your strategy?

[Norm Eisen]

No, Jen, it's a cover up. They're pouring these documents that are already public that people have that they don't need while concealing the most essential documents. So we're both litigating to try to get that through the Freedom of Information act, we at Democracy Defenders Fund, my wonderful colleagues and I are focusing on the Trump Epstein files. Want these thousands of pages that don't mention Donald Trump. Let's see what's in these Epstein files about Donald Trump and the illegitimate transfer of Ghislaine Maxwell. Why did this woman involved in these terrible crimes against underage women get transferred from a serious prison to a country club? We want the documents and the answers on that.

[Chris Hayes]

And I think a lot of people want all of those documents. And sky, you and I have talked about how you have been pursuing litigation on internal communications. Right. Which is another part of this. That's very much a part of what is happening within the Trump administration. I'm assuming that doesn't change anything new on that front.

[Sky Perryman]

Yeah, I mean, look, we're focused on the COVID up. We know that there's a reason that the president, you know, went to links to create a bunch of conspiracy theories, made a ton of allegations against members of the Biden administration and now, you know, won't release anything publicly. And so we are focused on those communications. We have a judge that's already set a schedule in the case. We are pushing it aggressively and we expect to know more in the coming weeks.

[Chris Hayes]

I read this, I quoted from this article in the Atlantic today, which are both quoted, in which I thought was really interesting because it talks about the strategy that all of legal eagles like you, legal eagles who work for you and other legal eagles out there have been deploying. One of the things, a lot of things struck me, one of the things that struck me, Norm, you and I worked together when you were the ethics counsel in the White House. And the lesson I always learned is don't talk about the legal cases. The lawyers aren't going to talk about the legal cases. There's really not a public strategy to most of the legal cases. That's very different now, right, Jen?

[Norm Eisen]

The thing that is necessary now is Donald Trump is flooding the zone with his autocratic attacks on the rule of law. He's trying to overwhelm the system. And so we need to meet that with rule of law shock and awe. And as I told the wonderful Michael Schur who did this piece and quoted sky and talked about the state attorneys general, the aclu, public citizen labor community group. So many who are doing this, they're meeting flood the zone with rule of law, shock and awe. Part of that is court of law. Part of it is court of public opinion. So you have to talk about it. In fact, sky and I co chaired with the conservative group Principals first back last summer, a public meeting, 300 experts from all over the country to say, get ready, this is coming, and we're going to have to litigate and talk.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah. It's so different now, because it's not. You can't just be filing away laws. And the other thing, Let me ask you, sky, is that it seems like it's not just you guys are doing so much litigation, you're doing tons, but it's not just one group. You are figuring out who the right plaintiffs are and you're coordinating. It's not under one umbrella. And why is that exactly? Why is that strategy so important?

[Sky Perryman]

Absolutely. I mean, these are the American people's cases, and that's why it's important that we talk about them, that we don't just go file them quietly and hide under a bushel. Right. This is about the American people. And there, our communities across this country, whether it's the public schools that we represent that were featured in the Atlantic article, or labor groups or immigration groups, small businesses we are representing, they're all affected in different ways. What they have in common is that Donald Trump and his administration and congressional Republicans have not made their lives better or easier. But we really see all these groups coming together. And so what we're seeking to do is to make sure that they can access the courts. When big law firms are pulling back, when there's a lot of powerful institutions that are pulling back, the people are stepping forward. And that's what we see in our cases, and it's why we're talking about it.

[Chris Hayes]

There have been a lot of successes. I just outlined some of the numbers there. With lower courts, the Supreme Court has not been as friendly, I should say. I don't know. Friendly is the right word. Has not been as supportive of some of these efforts to hold back on the rule of law, however you want to define it.

[Norm Eisen]

My point is, how about enabling Trump's autocracy?

[Chris Hayes]

They have enabled it. They have enabled it. A lot of these cases have to go to the Supreme Court. So what do you do?

[Norm Eisen]

Well, the Supreme Court, as busy as they've been, and I think as wrong as they've been, don't take my word for it. Conservative jurists, we often represent conservatives in the legal briefs we file. Judge Michael Ludig, he says the Supreme Court is perverting the rule of law. But, Jen, two things. One, they only touch about 10% of the cases. So in those other 90% of the cases at Democracy Defenders Fund, we won a Big victory on Donald Trump's election. Zo. Supreme Court hasn't touched that. We protected the TSA union. That's not at the Supreme Court. Voice of America, not at the Supreme Court. The AmeriCorps case, we got all those AmeriCorps kids. That's a case I do with sky and her crew. We got them rehired. And then when the Supreme Court does interfere, like they did on birthright citizenship, we were in court, two hours later, they said, you need to have a class action. We filed a class action. Two hours later, we got that class action certified. We got an injunction against not recognizing the citizenship of some babies. So that's how you do it.

[Chris Hayes]

So Norm's saying, kind of don't freak out everyone. Everything is not going to the Supreme Court. But what do you say?

[Sky Perryman]

Well, I'll also say something we want the American people to understand is this administration is backing off. They're actually backing off in some ways that the president want you to know about, that Pam Bondi doesn't want you to know about. We litigated and won before many courts, the Department of Education, keeping it from being decimated. And then the Supreme Court, without explanation, put a hold on that win. It didn't say what the president did was lawful, by the way. No court has really said that on many of these things, but it put a stay on our injunction. So we filed another suit to unlock over $6 billion of public school funds for this school year for communities across the country. And before we had to take that case up through the system, there was so much public pressure from people across the country and from this litigation that the administration released the funds. And so if there's one strategy here, it's that keeping your head down is not going to do the American people any good standing up and being clear that we will take these cases everywhere, we will go to the Supreme Court. We've launched a first in class at Democracy for the first in Class Appellate Project, if we need to go to the Supreme Court. But we're going to be there in communities across the country with the people, and we are going to force administration to back down.

[Chris Hayes]

People need a little shot of hope in their veins. You two are filing hundreds of cases. You're holding people to account. Norm Eisen, Sky Pearman, thank you so much for being here with me tonight. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and then after that, we're gonna talk about, of course, more on the fight over the Epstein files. House Republican leadership wants to proclaim transparency that is total bs. They are also trying to control the release of information. As we're seeing, we're gonna hear from the top Democrat on the committee about about what actual transparency looks like, what he's still fighting for next.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Cash flow crunch on Deck's small Business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow dep depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans an amount subject to lender approval.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try. [e-mail] switch upfront payment of $45 for.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 GB of network's busy taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com your life isn't one size fits all. Every day brings something different. Your style should too. At Maurices, we make it easy to show up feeling comfortable, confident and completely you. Our over 800 stylists are here to help you look your best. From tried and true denim to head turning looks, we've got styles that fit your life and your budget. Fashion made for real life moments Maurices.

[Chris Hayes]

As I mentioned at the top of the show, the House oversight committee released 33 pages of documents and other files about Jeff 33,000. Sorry about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell earlier tonight. Now these are the batch they received last month from doj, but they consist of most leave documents already made public and they are just a small fraction of all of what the Justice Department has, which is really important to know as we're continuing to tell this story and talk about it. So calling it a release is kind of pretty generous. To that point. Congressman Robert Garcia, who I'm about to talk to, he's the top Democrat on the committee, released a statement tonight saying the 33,000 pages of Epstein documents James Comer has decided to release were already mostly public information to the American people. Don't let this fool you. And that there is no mention of any client list or anything that improves transparency or justice for victims. NBC News reports that this is all part of a strategy by House GOP leadership to crush an internal revolt from members pushing for all the Epstein files. Look at all these pages we're releasing. Look at how transparent we are. Look the other way. That's the whole thing going on here. And Trump's little buddy Mike Johnson has a problem because today Republican Congressman Thomas Massie filed a discharge petition to try to force a floor vote on a resolution he's co sponsoring with Democrat Ro Khanna. All 212 Democrats are expected to be on board. We'll see. They haven't all signed yet as well as there are four Republicans who are also publicly on board as of the 8pm hour with my colleague Chris Hayes. And if more of them, they just need a couple more Republicans and all the Democrats, if they all get on board, this will force a vote. Now, all of this comes as survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were in Washington today speaking with a group of lawmakers. A handful of them also sat down with my colleague Hallie Jackson and told her what they're hoping for. What's the next step that you want to see for them to finish this so that it can be over. It is heartbreaking to go on the news all the time and see all of this and then it's five years.

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Later, six years later, here we are again. Because they're still not doing something from.

[Chris Hayes]

When they started the investigation, years and years and years prior to that. Had they done their job in the first place, none of us would have to be sitting here on camera today. Congressman Robert Garcia of California is here live with us now. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Oversight Committee. He heard personally a lot of the stories of these survivors today. And I really want to spend the most of our time talking about that because it is such a powerful. That's what this is all about, I think, which is important for people to remember out there. And I know you know that well. Is there anything about this batch of documents before we get there, the 33,000? I read your statement that you want to add. You want people to make sure they understand about what this is and what this isn't.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Look, these 33,000 pages that were released to the public tonight, it's the same batch of documents that the committee received a little over a week ago, about two weeks ago, 97% have already been released to the public of these documents. In fact, much of these documents were initially released to right wing media in influencers by Pam Bondi and the doj in the binder, big binder stunt. These documents are already in the public domain. There are about 1,000 pages of new documents. Not the client list, not anything that implicates anyone. Some information about Jeffrey Epstein's plane which was, which was in there. But these documents are old news and Republicans continue to play games. Pam Bondi has the full Epstein files. They should follow the subpoena that, by the way, Democrats demanded and forced a vote on and released them all today.

[Chris Hayes]

Do you think NBC News is reporting this? But you would know. Are they doing this just because they want to distract from and pull Republicans off of potentially voting for the discharge petition? Is that why they're doing it?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

We think absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, we understand that the White House does not want this petition to go through, does not want an actual vote force because it will put every single Republican on record. Look, we were able to get the subpoena done through a committee. We had three Republicans come on and join us in that. But now it's time to put that entire Republican conference on the record and have the full power of a law go through the Congress to release the full files. And so of course we know Congressman Khan is a member of our committee. We are all working together on oversight to get this done in every single possible way. And when it's important that we're centering the victims, that we hear their stories like we did today and continue to support and believe them in the days and weeks ahead.

[Chris Hayes]

Is the White House doing any. Are they actively involved with trying to prevent people from voting for this discharge position?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Yes. I have heard tonight from folks in Congress, including Republicans, that the White House is actively right now telling Republicans to not sign the discharge petition. And of course that petition is going to allow and force a vote on the floor that Mike Johnson could easily put up on his own. But he's not interested in true disclosure.

[Chris Hayes]

They want real disclosure. They shouldn't be rallying against it. Let me ask you, I mean, you sat there, I was watching your face as you were watching part of the clip with the interview that Hallie Jackson did today. And you sat and you listened privately to these survivors today meet with you and a number of your colleagues. What was that like?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

I mean, honestly, it was really hard. I first a year horrified by the stories that were shared by these survivors. These incredibly courageous and brave women who are being re victimized over and over again by not getting justice and seeing folks like Elaine Maxwell get preferential treatment by this administration. And to be clear, these women were clear earlier today that that treatment that Maxwell is getting is wrong and it's painful. And so that's shameful that a sex predator like her is being given preferential treatment and being able to tell her side of the story through the mouthpiece of the Donald Trump DOJ and his former personal attorney who is now the Deputy ag. To hear these women share their stories is also important. They should be centered in everything that we do. And it was both, it was both inspirational to hear their strength and courage, but also infuriating to hear what they have been through, what they have gone through. And it certainly has re energized continues to energize us to get this work done. And one thing I promised them today, and I told them this when I saw them earlier, is I told them that we don't care how powerful these people are, how much money, how much influence, what position they're in, if they're in government, if they are a Democrat, if they're a Republican, we could care less about the status or the wealth or power of those that harmed them. That we're going to work to get justice for all of them.

[Chris Hayes]

Which this shouldn't be in any way a partisan thing. And I'm not trying to say that naively, it just shouldn't be. There were a lot of Republicans in there. I mean Speaker Johnson was in there. He still seems to be opposed to bringing a vote to the floor opposed to the discharge petition. Why is that the White House?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Well, let's be really clear. The White House is involved in a massive cover up here. I mean to spend most of your campaign saying you're going to release the Epstein files to that being echoed by the entire kind of Republican establishment, right wing media, members of Congress all committed to a full release of the files on the election of Donald Trump and then to flip flop and not just change positions but then to tell insult Republicans that were asking questions for Pam Bondi to then try to make it all go away after saying that she had access to the whole files. And we know with certainty that Pam Bondi has told the President that he is in the files multiple times. He knows this information. And so now we are in some type of COVID up where his name is, what that actually means, who else has been involved, what other powerful people were involved is all and is important questions that need to be asked and answered. And so we are committed to that regardless of the obstruction that Republicans are trying to do.

[Chris Hayes]

Do you think, I mean, there were reports that some one member left in tears. I mean, do you think hearing from them today and hearing from them publicly tomorrow will turn some Republicans views on this and votes on this?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

I hope so. I don't think there was a person in that room that wasn't physically moved by what we heard. And I hope that all Republicans will sign that discharge petition. And if they want to hold these people that were accountable to these horrific crimes, they should sign that petition. They should go on the record and demand a full release of the files.

[Chris Hayes]

Now, Congressman Robert Garcia, you have a lot on your plate. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. Thank you again. Okay. Still to come tonight, President Trump gives two weeks notice. No, it's not that kind of notice. If only. But we're going to explain. Up next, Donald Trump's poker tell, you could call it for when he has no updates, no real plans to make progress whatsoever. No, no knowledge of how to make progress. Is to tell the press to come back to him in two weeks because maybe at that point everyone will move on. I think is what's going on in his head. The latest on tariff negotiations. Ask again in two weeks. Will the United States launch airstrikes on Iran? Check back in two weeks. Does he trust Vladimir Putin to engage in good faith ceasefire negotiations? I'll let you know in two weeks. I mean, the number of times we've watched Trump set a two week deadline only to either forget about it or hope that everyone else has, you know, moved on is a lot.

[Donald Trump]

We're going to be announcing something, I would say over the next two or three weeks. We are coming out with that plan in two weeks. We'll be reporting back sometime over the next two weeks. You'll be seeing that over the next two weeks. Over the next two weeks, we're going to be sending letters out in about a week and a half. Two weeks. I can't tell you that, but I'll let you know in about two weeks. Within two weeks. I could answer that question better in two weeks. I'll do this at some point. Over the next two weeks.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

You trust President Putin?

[Donald Trump]

I'll let you know in about two weeks. I'll tell you about that in a month from now or two weeks from now.

[Chris Hayes]

You know, two weeks from now when you're the President of the United States and are dealing with policy proposals and important negotiations, it starts to look well incredibly weak if your two week deadlines aren't actually serious negotiating tools. And they never seem to be and are instead just a way to kind of kick the can down the road, let people move on to another topic. I mean, take for example Trump's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire in Ukraine. Trump has already on multiple occasions set a two week deadline for Russia and its leader, Vladimir Putin, only for those deadlines to come and go without any consequences whatsoever. Just over two weeks ago. Yes, two weeks. Donald Trump met at the White House with a number of European leaders following his summit with Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. And during that meeting, Trump apparently told European leaders that he was aiming to set up a bilateral meeting with Putin and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in the next, you guessed it, two weeks. Well, it's been two weeks and we don't seem any closer to a meeting between Putin and Zelensky. Trump may have hoped that people would move on, but they haven't. Particularly European leaders. On Friday, in a joint news conference with the German chancellor, French President Emmanuel Macron said that if Putin does not commit to a meeting with Zelenskyy by Trump's deadline, it will mean that, quote, once President Putin played President Trump. No kidding. Ukraine's President Zelensky also has not forgotten Trump's deadline, saying last week, quote, two weeks will be on Monday and we will remind everybody. There you go. We're reminding everybody too. Now, once again, Trump has allowed for his deadlines to be blown without any consequences. As for what will Trump do now that Putin appears to have played him yet again? Maybe give him two weeks to figure it out. My best guess coming up, a rising senior and honor student from Los Angeles now trying to pick up the pieces after being deported by the Trump administration to a place that she barely has a connection to. A Special report from MSNBC's Jacob Soboroff right after a quick break. Immigration advocates alleged that children as young as 10 years old had been woken up in the middle of the night on Saturday in order to pack their belongings. The Trump administration was trying to deport some 600 unaccompanied Guatemalan children in the dead of the night. And at 4am Sunday morning, a federal judge blocked the move, ordering the administration not to deport the kids until a hearing could be held. A hearing was scheduled for 3pm that afternoon, but was abruptly moved up after immigrant advocates alerted the judge that the Trump administration appeared to be ignoring her order and had already begun loading busloads of children onto planes. Those advocates say that at least one of Those planes had already taken off for Guatemala. Now, the judge then paused the hearing to force the Justice Department to comply with her earlier order, forcing the planes to come back and return all of the children. As the judge put it quite mildly, on Sunday, I have the government attempting to remove minor children from the country in the wee hours of the morning on a holiday weekend, which is surprising. But here we are. Now, the Trump administration claims the parents of all of these children want them returned to Guatemala. Advocates for the children say they know of at least some cases where that is not true. And by law, an immigration judge should have to sign off on these unaccompanied minors being removed from the country. But advocates claim that the Trump administration was attempting to deport these children without giving them their day in court, sending hundreds of children to a country where many of them fear violence, gangs, abuse, neglect and human trafficking. MSNBC's own Jacob so Raf just returned from Guatemala, where he saw what life was like for an 18 year old and her mother who the Trump administration deported. Nori Sante Ramos and her mother, Estella had followed all of the rules. They fled Guatemala a decade ago after Estella was beaten by a local gang for refusing to join them. They applied for asylum in the United States. They settled in la. Nori learned English, made friends, became an honor student and an athlete. Estella went to all of their immigration hearings. And when they wanted Nori to attend one with her mother in late June, she did exactly that. Nori went with her. And that is where the Trump administration detained them, sending them to the Dilley Immigration Processing center about an hour south of San Antonio, before sending them back to a country they feared living in, a country the Trump administration now wants to send hundreds of unaccompanied minors back to. MSNBC senior political and national correspondent Jacob Soborough joins me now. Jacob, thank you for being here with us tonight and also for traveling there and bringing us this story and being so tireless in telling the immigration story. I told just a little bit of the story, but you spent time with them. Tell us a little bit more about why Nori and her mother feared returning to Guatemala.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Yeah. Thank you, Jen. Thank you for having me and for highlighting Nori's story because it's important to underscore that while the Trump administration continues to say and send out press releases and social media posts, that they are going after the worst of the worst, Nori and her mother are anything but. This is a high school honor student, a track star who literally would be in cross country practice today. And back at school at the Miguel Contreras Learning Complex in la, were it not for showing up to a routine immigration hearing. And like the 60% of people who have been apprehended in LA alone in June and July, they had no criminal record whatsoever. No pending criminal charges whatsoever. The number over the past 16 months before that. And so you asked me about what they were fleeing and why they didn't want to go back to Guatemala. You said a little bit of it, but they literally tried to kill Nori's mother, which is why they fled to the United States almost a decade prior. And it was one of the things I wanted to ask her about when I was there. Did she feel safe even going outside? And here's what she told me. Part of the reason that, that you guys left when you were little was that your mom didn't feel safe here.

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yes.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Now that you're back, are you still worried about your own safety?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yes, I'm worried about what might happen. We're not safe at all here. There's people, like, looking for my mom. So we're just scared, like, we find them in the streets.

[Jacob Soboroff]

So any day you're worried that something might happen to you just outside these doors?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yes, every day I'm just worried, especially my mom. They almost killed her. So I'm really, really scared. And for my safety, too.

[Chris Hayes]

Again, she's 18 years old, but she's referencing what your story highlights. And we'll tweet this out and post this on social media so people can read it, how she was eight years old when her mother was beate to the point where it made her pass out. Anyone who reads this story and does not feel tremendous heart for this girl is missing something in them. Let me ask you, Jacob, because you were just there, and this weekend there was this news of the Trump administration's attempt to send some 600 unaccompanied minors to Guatemala. They kind of went against a court order. Once again, what do you make of that? And what should we understand about what those unaccompanied minors would be walking into?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Well, it's exactly what Nori fled in the first place. Many of them who end up in the Office of Refugee Resettlement, those HHS shelters, are fleeing violence or persecution or any number of things that would cause them to take one of the most dangerous and deadly journeys. Unlike Nori and her mother alone and show up in the United States of America without their parent, hoping to be reunited with their family. And what the Trump administration is saying is we're not going to let them go through the process. We're just going to send them back right now.

[Chris Hayes]

Let me ask you, I mean, I touched on briefly how they went in. They weren't expecting this, but did they see any of us coming at all? Tell us a little about your conversation about that.

[Jacob Soboroff]

That's what's so extraordinary about this. And when I went to see Nori, I wasn't sure about whether or not they might have been expecting this in some way because her mom had gone to so many of these immigration check ins, but it literally was a routine. She was getting ready the next day to go to cross country practice. It was a routine dinner where her uncle was making ceviche in their house in the Westlake district of Los Angele. She told me the story of what happened the night before. This is what she told me. Your cousin Yuri told me. The night before you had to go to immigration hearing, you guys were having a family dinner.

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yes.

[Jacob Soboroff]

What do you remember about that night?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

We were just talking with my family. We were eating ceviche.

[Norm Eisen]

And so that night, did you know.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You had this, that your mom had this immigration check in the next day?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yes, I did.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And did you know you were gonna go the next day with your mom?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

I did. On the 27th, she had an appointment, but I didn't go with her. After the appointment, she told me about it. She was like, oh, we have an appointment. And I told her, I was like, why? Because she already went. And she just said, oh, it's because, like, they want to talk to you. They just want to talk to you and check up.

[Jacob Soboroff]

What did that make you feel?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

I feel like I didn't want to go. I was just scared about it. I was scared because I have seen about like in tv, like, even when an appointment, they're just gonna like ice was just gonna like grab you and take you.

[Jacob Soboroff]

All summer long in la, that had been going on.

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yeah.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Were you aware of that?

[Nori Sante Ramos]

Yeah, I was. So I was telling her like, I didn't want to go at all.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Does that look like the worst of the worst to you, Jen? It doesn't look like the worst of the worst to me. And there in Kits, the second biggest city in Guatemala, three and a half hours from Guatemala City. Nori doesn't even speak Spanish. She grew up in the United States of America. She speaks a little kiche, the Mayan dialect that her mother taught her when she came to the us that's who the Trump administration was going after in la. It's who they're going to go after in Chicago no matter what they tell you. Look at what's happening on the ground. And that's why I'm so grateful to everybody at MSNBC for allowing us to go and see Nori there.

[Chris Hayes]

Jacob, we're grateful to you for your essential reporting. Thank you so much. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on BlueSky, Instagram and TikTok. At Designer Shoe Warehouse, we believe that shoes are an important part of, well.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

Everything from first steps to first dates, from all nighters to all time personal.

[Chris Hayes]

Bests, from building pillow forts to building.

[OnDeck/Maurices Commercial Announcer]

A life for all the big, big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com.