Susan Rice (2:05)

Some are not that significant.

Jen Psaki (2:07)

One is probably the most significant. But we have a very good chance of getting there. We didn't get there, but we have a very good chance of getting there. I have no idea how to translate for you what exactly Trump was trying to say there. It was a collection of words, that's what I can tell you. But the big winner of today's summit, outside of all of that, what we just saw was undoubtedly Vladimir Putin. And that has been true since the summit was announced. I mean, a decade of isolation from the international community ended today when he was welcomed back onto the world stage thanks to Donald Trump. Meeting with adversaries is something American presidents have done for a very long time and they absolutely should continue to. That's how you make progress, how you end wars, how you negotiate peace. But the optics of such meetings are always a choice. And today, Trump literally rolled out the red carpet on American soil for the Russian dictator. Trump and Putin then rode together without their aides in the presidential limo known as the Beast, which is something that rarely happens with a US President. I can probably count a handful of times in the two presidents I worked for and any other world leader, and certainly not with an American adversary. Typically, there are weeks of preparations for meetings like this for a good reason, to map out all of the scenarios, to map out what you want to accomplish and where you want it to go from here. And typically, the hard work of dealmaking happens on the front end before the leaders meet. That was clearly not the case today. And maybe we should have expected that, because the guy who repeatedly bragged about ending this war on day one of his presidency has spent the last several days working to lower expectations. And that obviously is quite telling. I mean, he told reporters on Air Force One that he did not know if they could negotiate a ceasefire today. And Press Secretary Caroline Levitt has tried to reframe the meeting as a listening exercise, which has all sorts of meetings. But all of this comes as Russia is continuing to make military gains in Ukraine, as Europeans are nervous about the United States withdrawal as a leading supporter of Ukraine, and as polling released just yesterday by Pew finds that 59% of Americans say they are not confident in Trump's handling of the war, while only 41% say say they are. There are many big questions. I have very smart people to talk to. But one of the big ones is where does this leave us and what happens now? Joining me now are former US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul, my colleague Nicole Wallace, host of Deadline White House, who has been talking about this for many hours. I've been watching her and Ben Rhodes, former deputy national security advisor. Ambassador McFaul, I know you've been talking about this as well, but I want to start by asking you, you have stepped staffed these meetings, you've planned these meetings before. We have all have so many questions, but what are the big questions you have right now?

Michael McFaul (4:50)

Well, the biggest question I have, of course, is what did they talk about? What did they agree to? The president? President Trump alluded that they agreed to something. Putin himself used the word agreement, at least through his translator. But we don't know any of those details. I suspect they're probably thin. There probably wasn't much agreement. If they had something to talk that was concrete, they would have told us about it. They would have taken questions. But that's all a mystery. And that's just to get back to your intro, which was perfect about setting expectations. We all know we've worked with presidents about these kinds of summits. You don't give away presidential time, even to a loyal ally, for nothing. But here's what Trump did. He agreed to a meeting because Putin asked for it. Then he agreed to host this guy in the United States of America. And then he agreed, on top of all that, to have a meeting without anything agreed ahead of time. Usually, in normal diplomacy, the agreements are done first and you bring the presidents in to sign them to finish the deal. This was the exact opposite. And now we're left hanging that we don't know what was agreed to. The minimalist thing we thought we would get, these are the president's words, not mine, is that there would be another meeting, a trilateral meeting that was not even announced at the press conference today.

Jen Psaki (6:15)

There's so little. We'll watch and see what we learn. There's the. What we have to bite into right now is really the optics of this. And we have all been to summits like this. All of us, actually. I guess that makes us a very nerdy group of people. But we've all planned these summits, been a part of these summits in different ways. Let me ask you, Ben. I mean, I just outlined some of the things that struck me. You have planned more of these and what they should look like and where presidents should stand, where they should meet than most people. What are the things that stuck out to you about that that could have a lasting impact? Because that's really the important question here.

Ben Rhodes (6:48)

Yeah. I mean, Jen, you'll remember for eight years, I was in charge of the presidential travel and these kinds of arrangements, and I've never seen anything remotely like this. I mean, first of all, literally rolling out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin and having the president wait there to greet with him. And bear in mind, this is what Putin wants. He wants to be seen as an equal of the US President. He wants to be seen as being brought in from the cold in terms of any isolation from the West. He wants to be treated with these kinds of trappings. And bear in mind, he made no concessions. Russia has not changed its positions on the Ukraine war one inch. Their positions are still recognition of all the annex territory. Ukraine can't join NATO and end to this war on our terms, on Russia's terms, no concession whatsoever. And he gets this kind of rural treatment. And then secondly, I was surprised he gets in the presidential limousine. Right. That's kind of usually a. A sweetener that you give when things are going well with another leader. And, look, you might say that's worth it if you really think you're going to dig in and sit there for hours and hours and hours and actually negotiate something. But then they come out with no agreement whatsoever. And then you have the strangeness of Putin speaking first, which, again, I don't mean to harp too much on these things. I know it sounds like we're just talking about optics, but the reality is that allowed Putin to frame the meeting in his terms. And his terms are, we're great friends. We're your neighbors. Oh, by the way, we're here in Alaska, which we, you know, is an unsubtle message. They sold it to us. It shows that territory can go back and forth, just like we're. We're doing a land deal. And again, those optics are very powerful, as Mike knows well, in Eastern Europe, the idea of two leaders of big superpowers coming together with maps in front of them without the representative of Ukraine, the country that was invaded in any way in that meeting, know that's an optic, too. Right. We're here. We're in a bigger weight class than these other guys. Right. That's what Putin wants. And he's talking about we're going to do business, and he's talking about the future potential of the relationship. You know, that's a part of the presentation of this. And then Trump looked like he knew that he had nothing to say. And look, I mean, the most optimistic version of this is that he has nothing to say because he's got to check back with the Europeans and the Ukrainians. But he didn't really, you know, allude to anything other than there's one big sticking point. Well, in the war in Ukraine, that one big sticking point could be NATO. It could be territory. Right. So the one big thing could be a really big thing. And then I should note, you know, and not just because we're part of that administration, Jen. But then Trump goes on to say that things would have been better if there was no Russia, Russia, Russia, hoax. Right. I mean, once again, he's kind of de facto siding with Putin in terms of what happened in 2016, and then that's it. And then there's no effort to kind of brief out anything that happened in the meeting. So, all in all, just to echo what Mike said, Putin got what he wanted here. He's an equal of the US President. He's sitting there with maps of the country that he invaded, talking about what territory he gets to keep. He's treated with all the trappings. The message to the world, not just Europeans and Ukrainians, but anybody around the world, is Vladimir Putin waited out the isolation that he was under, and now we just don't know what happened. We don't know what comes next. And look, hopefully there's some actual credible diplomatic opening, but very little that comes out of this meeting suggests that whatever opening there is is on anything other than Vladimir Putin's terms.

Jen Psaki (10:20)

I'm just going to note here what people are seeing on the screen is Trump is arriving, of course, to leave. Back on Air Force One, Nicole. I mean, we say the optics. The optics are a big part of diplomacy. I mean, they're a big part of sending a message to the country and the world about who is good, who is not good, who we're partners with, who we still have disagreement with. I was also struck by Trump. I said, called him low energy. There's lots of ways to refer to him. At that press conference, he didn't seem, to Ben's point, to have a lot to say. But you've been following him, watching him for a long time. What struck you about what we actually heard come out of his mouth today?

Nicole Wallace (10:56)

Well, listen, the. The optics are so striking, but I think the substance of what happened tonight is what will haunt us as a country for even longer. I mean, the substance of what happens is that the position that Vladimir Putin had, that earned him isolation, as basically a charged war criminal who rewarded the soldiers, who carried out the atrocities against civilians in Bucha was unchanged. And what I noted today was that Putin 1.0 sort of seemed to slyly wink and nod as he made Donald Trump look like his supplicant. I mean, Helsinki was a home run slam dunk for Vladimir Putin. But he seemed to stand at his podium sheepishly. There was a new brazenness in Vladimir Putin. And if it doesn't keep Marco Rubio up at night tonight, then he said some sort of lobotomy since he authored the Senate Intelligence Committee's report that Marco Rubio described as the most exhaustive report on Russia's attack on the 2016 presidential election. There is a new, emboldened Putin that I saw today. And Trump was just Trump. If Putin had permitted him to take questions, they'd still be talking and the four of us would be sitting here waiting for them to stop. Putin didn't permit him to take questions. Putin got in the car, because that was the powerful thing for Putin. Trump didn't do anything that made Trump look powerful. And Putin didn't seem to be at all interested in any of Trump's pride or dignity being maintained. This was about showing the Russian population who was in charge of this relationship. What is left of Trump's enthusiastic support, which is you showed. It's less than the number of people who voted for him, who approve of his handling of the war in Ukraine. But Putin seemed less committed to not publicly humiliating Donald Trump than I have ever, ever seen him.

Jen Psaki (12:52)

I was struck by what he said, where he kind of. He kind of said, I hope the backroom deal, the Europeans and the Ukrainians don't go back on the deal. And they follow through with what we agreed to, which it's like, what does that mean? Okay, I'm going to bring in. Joining us now is going to be White House correspondent Peter Alexander, who was actually in the room for that press conference. I'm sure he anticipated it being a lot longer and maybe getting a question. Peter, tell us a little bit about the feeling in that room. I mean, we were all watching as you were waiting for it. You guys were all sitting down. You're reporting on it. Typically, these are longer, to Nicole's point. Sometimes these with the Russians can go on for a very long time. So give us a sense of the scene in the room.

Peter Alexander (13:33)

Well, to give you a sense, the White House itself said that Donald Trump wasn't scheduled to leave here for another hour and forty or so minutes. So even by the standard that they set, things ended abruptly, quickly here with no expanded bilateral meeting. They only had the meeting that they shared behind closed doors with Trump and Putin. Sergei Lavrov, the foreign minister on the Russian side there, Marco Rubio and Steve Witkoff on the American side. You know, you've been referring to it at times as a news conference. This, by all of our standards, isn't a news conference, because no questions were asked. They made statements. Donald Trump, I think this might have been the briefest set of statements he's ever made in one of these press availabilities, as they describe him. The whole thing lasted 12 minutes. It was striking to me that he let his guest, Vladimir Putin, speak first. He went for only about three and a half minutes. But the bottom line at the end of this, I think, Jen, is really that Vladimir Putin, who arrived here, in effect, a pariah on the world stage, gets to go home and try to say that he is now a partner with America, the largest superpower in the world. He got, in effect, everything he wanted. From this moment, he leaves with a red carpet photo op here, literally walking on a red carpet with Donald Trump before he was, you know, escorted onto that podium flanked by American warplanes, fighter jets flying overhead. He got time in the presidential limousine. He left with no ceasefire, which he's been trying to avoid. And almost as important as anything, he left without any additional sanctions. Remember a week ago today, Donald Trump, that was supposed to be deadline day. President Trump was supposed to be slapping on those additional sanctions on Russia. If there was no end to this war, if nothing else, Vladimir Putin certainly kicked the can down on that. And notably, he said that, you know, we basically came to agreement that there has to be some better understanding about the primary causes, the root causes of this war. And in fact, again, blaming the Ukrainians for a war where Russia three and a half years ago, invaded an independent and sovereign neighbor next door. So those are some of my biggest takeaways as we get going. Just pulling back the curtain here. What struck me, Jen in particular, was really just the looks on the faces of a lot of the American delegation here. Caroline Levitt, the press secretary, Steve Witkoff, who came into the room, then left quickly, then came back in. Levitt appeared to be a bit stressed out, anxious. Their eyes were wide, almost ashen at times. Those were some of the sort of images that are going to, that I'm going to stick, will stick with me as we leave here. This was, this was not the way the President likes to do things. He likes to be the producer of this presidency. He got that in the first half of the day. But when he was behind closed doors with Vladimir Putin, it looks like he didn't come away with anything that he claimed he wanted. He said he'd go home unhappy if there was no ceasefire. They didn't declare one here today.

Jen Psaki (16:28)

Peter Alexander, I know you've had a long day. Thank you for being with us. I wish there was more news to report. We will. We will learn more. Thank you again. All right, I'm going to bring back in the panel that was just with me, Ambassador McFaul. I mean, the party that's most important here is, of course, the party that wasn't there, the Ukrainians. Are you. I know you talk to them frequently. I don't know if you've had a chance between all of your TV hits to talk to them. But what do you, what do you think? What are they thinking about what they saw today?

Michael McFaul (16:56)

Well, I've heard from some. There are people up still watching this. I think it's anxiety, disappointment. And remember, the president himself set the standards for success. Right. He talked about a ceasefire when he's really optimistic. There was chatter about maybe there'll be the stopping of missiles and drone attacks that didn't happen. And even the most minimal, minimal outcome, which is agreement to a trilateral meeting with President Zelensky, Putin and Trump, was not announced today. So there was no outcome that is good for the Ukrainian people. But I also want to say this is bad for the American people. Summits. The president of the United States is hired to defend our national interests, our economic interests and our values, our democratic values. What I saw today was normalizing imperialism, was normalizing terrorism. Remember, Putin is terrorizing civilians in Ukraine every single night, normalizing annexation, normalizing dictatorship. And for decades, America has always been on the side in a fight between good and evil, between Democrats and autocrats. We've always been the leader of the free world. It sure didn't feel that way tonight.

Jen Psaki (18:13)

I think that's the core point here, is Putin being welcomed back from isolation after 10 years of being isolated from the global community. And as you just said, normalizing what has not been normalized through Democratic and Republican presidents for so many years. Michael McFaul, Nicole Wallace, Ben Rhodes, thank you both. Thank you all. Not both. Thank you all so much. I really appreciate you being here. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back with more reaction to the Trump and Putin summit when our special coverage continues. We'll keep you updated on all the developments. Stay with us.

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Jen Psaki (20:16)

Best school year ever. Okay, I felt like it was important to show you, as we're talking about all of this, what Ukraine looked like just 12 years ago in 2013. And half the country, you can see borders, a handful of Eastern European countries like Belarus, Poland and Romania. The other half, for the most part, borders on Russia. One year later, in 2014, Russia invaded Ukraine. Russian forces illegally took the peninsula located in the south of Ukraine known as Crimea, which you can see right there sort of on the bottom of the screen. They also worked with proxy militias to seize territory in the Donbas region of Eastern Ukraine. And although this illegal annexation is not recognized internationally, at least not in the west, Ukraine has been trying to get its land back ever since then. It's their land. But that has been a huge uphill battle because eight years later, in 2022, the Kremlin launched its full scale invasion of Ukraine. And even though Ukrainians have fought and defended their land and sovereignty for over three years now, Russia has slowly taken more territory in Eastern Ukraine. And all indications point to the Kremlin not stopping there. Because this week, even before the summit today, Russia made its biggest 24 hour advance into Ukraine in over a year. Meanwhile, one rather important person did not get a seat at the negotiating table today. Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelensky. And whatever ultimately results from today's talks between Trump and Putin will require Ukraine sign off if there is even anything, which we really have no detail at this point as we've been talking about of what happened those three hours. But that's what we know now. So I'm gonna bring in some experts to talk about some of these details where we stand. And let me start, let me bring in CIA Director John Brennan, NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Let me start with you, Ambassador Brennan, because something you said to me last week has stuck with me. I think it was last week. It's all running together just about Putin being a former KGB agent and somebody who is an incredibly astute manipulator. There have been presidents before who have underestimated him. I guess I could say not in the same way Trump has. But today, watching them on the stage, what struck me and Nicole Wallace talked about this a little bit in the last block is just how he seemed sort of very confident while Trump seemed. His body language was like he didn't have a lot to say. But tell me about what struck you about today and what you saw from the press conference or even what you saw from the optics of the event.

John Brennan (22:45)

Well, Jen, just looking at the optics, it's clear that Vladimir Putin felt very confident from the arrival in terms of how he was greeted again, an international pariah, a war criminal who was basically embraced by the president. United States on a red carpet in the United States. So I think you could see on Putin's face he felt very, very comfortable. And the fact that he was given a ride then in the presidential limousine, the beast. I certainly hope the Secret Service has swept that vehicle very in terms of any type of small microchip that might have been put in the vehicle. But then in the press conference, Putin looked chipper, he looked upbeat. He looked like somebody who was satisfied with the meeting, not as though it was somebody who was given an ultimatum about what's going on in Ukraine. He did look very upbeat. And Donald Trump, he spoke for a very short period of time. I know people think that it was Putin who didn't want to take questions that might have been the case. But also I think the American side didn't want to take questions either, because there's no good answers to what has happened. They were making reference to an agreement, but it was nothing at all. There's no mention about a ceasefire, anything at all. So I think Donald Trump realized throughout the day that he was getting played by Putin. But also I think Donald Trump just put himself in this position. He was the one who offered this meeting. He was the one who invited Putin to US Territory. He was the one that to put together this summit that clearly there was very little preparation for. And they came out empty handed. So I think when I look at what happened today, it was embarrassing. I think it was shameful. But also, I think it's very, very worrisome from the standpoint of the United States. The leader of the United States engaged with President Putin and came away with apparently nothing at this point. But also, again, normalized, I think, as Ambassador McFaul said, normalize Vladimir Putin for all of the tremendous suffering and the devastation that he has Wrought in Ukraine.

Jen Psaki (24:43)

Andrew, you have covered so many of these summits. I don't even know the numbers of how many summits you have covered that have involved Russian leaders, have involved other adversaries. You were also in Helsinki, if I remember correctly, which was the meeting we all have been talking about leading up to this summit. What struck you today and were there. The body language felt similar to me, but you were there. What struck you about today and was there anything that reminded you of that summit just a few years ago?

Andrea Mitchell (25:12)

Well, it's similar to what John Brennan was just mentioning. It was so chummy. And the red carpet and riding together in the beast, the limousine. There was a car there, a Russian car there. So there was a vehicle. The whole choreography of this was unnecessary, unnecessarily friendly. I mean, there was a war going on. You know, Vladimir Putin is the invader. He leads the invading force. Even though President Trump has never acknowledged that. Never in any of his comments has he acknowledged that Russia started this war. And then Putin comes up with this flattering reference as he first of all, spoke first, which is really unusual. You've been, you know, at White House press conferences and with foreign leaders, the host speaks first and then the guest. And that didn't happen today. Putin also had that flattering reference to, well, there wouldn't have been a war if you had been president, which is something that, you know, we've heard over and over again from President Trump. In fact, on the plane going out, I think he may have mentioned that again. And just again, the friendliness of it and the body language was really remarkable. But most notably, the president of the United States felt it necessary or he was being with Vladimir Putin, he must have been thinking about Helsinki because he again came up with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax language, which was his humiliating and really very controversial offensive dispute with the US Intelligence assessments back in Helsinki that were corrected by the then dni, Dan Coats, almost immediately afterwards in a written statement. So for him to say that in front of Vladimir Putin is again giving Putin a gift by saying, you know, all of the intelligence, the American intelligence for all of these years, which has not been, not been contradicted, despite what was recently released by the current dni, Tulsi Gabbard, that all of that was incorrect. And that is just, you know, giving something away, something American, you know, uniquely American, which is the assessment of our.

Jen Psaki (27:30)

Experts, which is a continuing. I mean, Trump continues to trash the expertise of experts over and over and over again. There was a striking moment. There were a couple of Striking moments, only a 12 minute press conference. But at the very end, Director Brennan, Putin kind of suggested that maybe there'll be a meeting in Moscow. And Trump said, maybe that would be interesting or I'd get in a lot of trouble. I mean, this is, I say this all the time so often. It's like, this is not a normal behavior. This is not how things normally go. But help us as someone who's had the positions you've had, why that was a bit of a strange back and forth between them.

John Brennan (28:11)

Well, it was strange one respect, but it also was unsurprising in another because again, Vladimir Putin, as a trained intelligence officer, knows that the way to ingratiate himself with others is to flatter them. And obviously, Donald Trump's ego is something that he needs constant flattering for. And so again, inviting Donald Trump to Moscow is something that, you know, Vladimir Putin, I'm sure wanted to do, wanted to do it very publicly and put Donald Trump in the position of having a response to that. And Trump said, yeah, well, maybe. And so again, it looked like Putin was in control of this summit. And I presume that during the closed meeting that they had, the small meeting that Putin did most of the talking. In Putin's first meeting with President Obama, he spoke nonstop for almost an hour. And so I could just imagine that Putin spoke throughout the course of that meeting and there was very little back and forth between, between the two delegations. But again, maybe there's something that's going to be coming out soon and is going to redeem what looks like a failed summit meeting. But again, all of this, as Andrea said, the choreography, the, just the, the impression that was left as a result of that joint statement that came out, not a press conference, just, you know, two statements, really left, I think everybody wanting. And I'm sure that President Zelensky right now in Ukraine is really, really worried that the recent increase that we've seen in Russian military operations is not stop. In fact, it might increase.

Jen Psaki (29:42)

John Brennan, Andrea Mitchell, you might be alarmed to hear that Donald Trump gave himself a 10 out of 10 apparently when he talked to Sean Hannity. That's just part of the interview we've heard about, but I appreciate you both joining me so much. Thank you again for joining us.

Andrea Mitchell (29:55)

Thank you.

Jen Psaki (29:56)

Stay with us for more special coverage. We'll be right back.

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Jen Psaki (31:55)

In the backdrop of today's summit is the inescapable fact that Russia's economy is teetering on the edge of a cliff, Russian oil revenues are plummeting, inflation and interest rates are sky high, and the country's deficit is the biggest it has been in 30 years. So while today's talks were not explicitly at all about economics, it is notable who Trump and Putin had at their sides with them during the the meeting today. Trump was flanked by his Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, and his Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant, while Putin had both his finance minister and the chief of the Russian Direct Investment Fund in tow. So far, sanctions and the economic pain they bring have not persuaded Russia to end this war. No new sanctions announced today, of course, but clearly in at least some way, shape or form. Money seemed to be on all of their minds. That's why they had all these people with them. Joining me now to discuss this and a lot of other things is Ali Velshi. Ali, I should note I know our viewers know this, but you have been to Ukraine a number of Times, too. And I want to talk to you about that as well. Let me first talk to you about. There were a lot of business leaders there, prominent people who manage the economy. For both Putin and for Trump, there was supposed to be a lunch. The lunch didn't appear to happen. What did you make of their attendance there and what you think the purpose of all of that was?

Ali Velshi (33:11)

Well, two things. One is it's kind of how now Donald Trump does business, right? And when he went to the Middle east, he kind of made a speech about how, we're not going to give you any lectures about how you do things, but, boy, we're here to make deals. America's open for business. What a weird thing to do in this environment, right, where this was a war that he was supposed to end on day one, that he claimed, and Vladimir Putin now validated in this weird way that, yeah, maybe the war wouldn't have happened if you were president. Ridiculous. But the idea that you're there and you're talking about deals, when in fact, you're supposed to be getting either a ceasefire or some sort of temporary cessation in hostilities, but you've come with all your business people in tow. And it was one of the only specific references to anything that Donald Trump gave in his remarks. You know, he couldn't. He named his advisors by their first names, Marco and Steve and John and someone else, but he didn't. And then he pointed to these two Russian leaders, but he said, but there's a lot of Russian business people here. So it seemed like success to Donald Trump. And I can't tell whether this is success for the country in terms of trade deals or these side deals that Donald Trump keeps making for personal gain wherever he goes. But it seemed like that seemed to be a goal that he was trying to achieve, but as you said, didn't seem to go that way because they had a shorter meeting than planned. The Russians said it was gonna go for six plus hours, they talked for a couple hours, and now everybody's back on their planes, going home. So not clear what happened there, but this would not be a time to be talking about deals. It might be a time to be talking about increasing sanctions, or if a ceasefire were achieved, pulling back on sanctions, but that's it.

Jen Psaki (34:44)

Not new deals, and certainly never self enrichment. But he never lets that stop him for sure. One of the things I've been thinking about, and I was, of course, in the Biden administration during the early months of this invasion, is that in the early months, there was this theory that all of these sanctions and all of these steps that were taken to isolate Russia would be so crippling, it would impact their behavior. You follow so many aspects of this, including the economic developments. I mean, their economy is in shatters right now. Stellar. Give us a sense of that. But how have you thought about why that hasn't made a difference in the behavior of Putin and other leaders in the Kremlin?

Ali Velshi (35:25)

Well, for three particular reasons. One is that there's censorship in Russia. And while people can use VPNs to get around it as they could in America if they wanted to, they don't. Right. People, people take in cable news, they take in what they hear. So. So this idea of this unified effort to reunite Russia and Ukraine is very popular amongst people. So even if you're suffering and you can't get the things you want and your prices are higher, you think you're doing some greater good. Number two, Vladimir Putin has the support of a whole bunch of autocrats around the world and they're helping prop him up. And number three, oil. That's one of the few things that they sell that people need. India continues to buy a whole lot of Russian oil because India says we need the oil. China continues to buy a whole bunch of Russian oil because. Because China says we need the oil. There've been efforts by Western Europe to try and wean themselves off of Russian natural gas. Some of that's worked. But Russia doesn't sell a ton that the world needs, but it sells some things that the world needs. And right now energy is one of them. So they have been managed to, they've managed to muddle through and create an alternate economy. And they're part of this BRICS grouping where they're discussing having an alternate currency to the US dollar. And normally that'd be a non starter, Jen, but in this world where the US Dollar is weakening and trust in the US is starting to falter, the IDE alternate currency that involves Russia is actually not as much of a non starter as it used to be. Doesn't mean that sanctions would not be effective and more sanctions would not be yet more effective. And we're doing some of that. But today didn't have a feeling of America trying to hold a country that's out of line in line. It had a completely different vibe to it.

Jen Psaki (37:02)

It also strikes me Putin is making a calculation about his own survival of sorts. And there's lots of ways he can control, to your point, information and how people understand what's happening to them. You've spent so much time in Ukraine over the last couple of years. And I think most people obviously don't have the visibility you have had into what it actually feels like in the country right now. And one of the facts that has struck me is that this was one of the best weeks militarily for Russia in quite some time. Help our viewers understand kind of what does it feel like on the ground right now. And for the Ukrainians and Volodymyr Zelenskyy, how do you envision they're looking at this meeting and digesting what they just saw today?

Ali Velshi (37:42)

It's very, very difficult because they have been in a war that, because of the support of NATO and 20 other countries that has been built since the beginning of this war by the administration that you were part of, they feel like others have got their back. They're up against a much stronger adversary. As much as people want to mock the Russian army for underperforming, the fact is Russia's got a lot of resources. It's got backing from Iran, it's got backing from North Korea, it's got, you know, backing from China. So the idea that Ukraine's been able to stay in this fight has been pretty dramatic. But these are people who are fighting for a real cause. They're fighting for their democracy. So that's helped them in the fight. But in the fight for their democracy, some democratic things in Ukraine have been suspended. Right. They don't have elections. They would like to get back to a world in which they can vote for their leaders and vote for what they want. And every day this drags on and with more people dying, they're holding onto hope that this can end favorably for them. And when they see things like this, this is incredibly discouraging because Ukraine was hardly mentioned in this discussion, as you point out, it wasn't really a press conference. It was hardly mentioned in this 12 minute discussion. And then only as an afterthought and then only to underscore Vladimir Putin's grievances, which don't make sense, that this was about Russia's security interests and that if America would finally recognize, recognized that they'd let Russia do whatever it needs to do. So tonight is, there's no question it's a dispiriting night for Ukrainians. I will say this about the Ukrainians. They've overcome worse.

Jen Psaki (39:09)

That is a very important note. Ali Vilshi, I know we're going to see you in an hour and 16 minutes. When you're going to share so much of your expertise, you've just shared with us. Thank you again for taking the time.

Ali Velshi (39:18)

Always my pleasure.

Jen Psaki (39:19)

Okay, we're going to be right back with more special coverage of the historic summit meeting between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. Former UN Ambassador and National Security Adviser Susan Rice is coming up next. We all know that Trump is highly susceptible to flattery. It's kind of his thing, especially when it comes to Vladimir Putin. I mean, just take a look at the way Trump spoke about the praise he received from Putin back during his first term and his 2016 campaign. Well, if Putin likes Donald Trump, I consider that an asset. Like, for instance, Putin said Trump is brilliant. Putin said, Donald Trump is a genius. He's gonna be the next great leader of the United States. Putin did call me a genius. I'm gonna disavow a statement when somebody calls me a genius.

Michael McFaul (40:09)

I'm not disavowing anything.

Jen Psaki (40:10)

My attitude, when people like me, I like them. Even Putin, I mean, he could hardly shut up about it. And speaking about it in the third person, it's its own words level of weird. And that might all explain why Putin was laying it on pretty thick during today's joint press conference. I mean, it was clearly a strategy praising Trump and the common heritage between Russia and the U.S. i would like to thank once again my American counterpart.

Susan Rice (40:39)

For the proposal to travel out here to Alaska.

Jen Psaki (40:42)

They came out of the plane and.

Susan Rice (40:44)

I've said.

Jen Psaki (40:47)

Good afternoon, dear neighbor, very.

Susan Rice (40:49)

Good to see you.

Jen Psaki (40:50)

We're close neighbors and it's a fact.

Susan Rice (40:53)

It's also important that Alaska has to.

Jen Psaki (40:56)

Do with our common heritage, common history.

Susan Rice (40:58)

Between Russia and the US Even got.

Jen Psaki (41:01)

A jab in at Joe Biden in there at some point, but it's all interesting. Joining me now is former UN Ambassador and National Security adviser under President Obama, Susan Rice. It is an out of body experience, I will say, to watch things happen in a way that is so different from how things, things would have been done in an administration you worked in. And that is even more so, I would bet, for you. Given you were the national security adviser, what is your takeaway from the meeting today? What did you make of.

Susan Rice (41:32)

Was, in short, Jen, a big victory for Vladimir Putin. He walked off his plane onto a red carpet to a clapping Donald Trump and a flyover of American military aircraft. An extremely warm reception. And then they get into the President of the United States limousine one on one with no staff and no interpreters. And Putin apparently speaks good enough English to carry on a conversation. I hope, Jen, that he did not drop a bug in the backseat of the President's limousine as a former KGB chief, because having Putin in that limousine is really quite an extraordinary gesture. And then he lets Putin speak first at the press conference. But the big picture is that this is the end from Putin's perspective of his international isolation. He's welcome onto American soil for the first time in almost two decades outside of the UN and he gets a warm welcome from Trump and gave nothing in return. Stuck to his hardline positions about Ukraine. And he walks away with no sanctions against him, evading sanctions for the fourth time. He walks away with no ceasefire. Vague discussion about an agreement that nobody understands, and he's in a stronger position than when he arrived. And Trump, frankly, it's not clear what he got except some backhanded BS about how war wouldn't have happened if Trump had been president, which is something Trump loves to say. That literally might be the only thing Trump got out of this whole charade.

Jen Psaki (43:18)

I mean, there was a three hour meeting. They clearly discussed something. We learned really nothing during the press conference. The people who matter the most here in this whole discussion are the Ukrainians, who are not a part of this. It's very hard to put back in a box to your point, the bringing Russia back to, into the world stage and Vladimir Putin after they've been isolated. But if there were a path forward here, if there were a path toward peace, if there were a path toward a ceasefire, what kind of leverage does the United States have that a president who really wanted to get there could actually use?

Susan Rice (43:51)

Well, the way this should have been done. First of all, this summit should not have been held on US Soil, should have been held in a neutral location if you're going to hold it in the first place. And ideally, obviously would have had Zelensky present. But if this were meant to be preparatory towards a trilateral with Zelensky, you would want to put the United States and Ukraine in the strongest possible position going in. That would have meant having imposed the secondary sanctions as well as tariffs that he had threatened and promised multiple times, not just on India, but also on China, which is Russia's biggest trading partner and supplier of military equipment. You would have ramped up military assistance to Ukraine in a very significant and sustained way. And you would have demonstrated at every turn that we remain in lockstep, you know, full square together with our European allies and with the Ukrainians. In Zelensky, he really didn't do that. He didn't lay the table to come into that summit from a position of strength and make it very clear to Putin that this was his last and best chance to commit to a ceasefire. Had he done that, we might have seen a different outcome. Hard to tell, but that was the best way to exert the leverage that you asked about.

Jen Psaki (45:08)

There would have also been a process led by an actual real national security advisor who had that as a full time job, leading up to a summit where there were negotiations in advance, which clearly didn't happen. One of the other things that was striking, and you were, of course, the national security adviser in 2016, and during that whole period, we got news earlier this week that there's evidence that Russia reportedly hacked our federal court system, but there's no evidence that subject even came up. I mean, instead, Trump called the probe of Russian interference a hoax. I bring that up because it's striking to me. But most importantly, I want to know if it's striking to you, given it's the US Court system, and it is, it could be significant, it could be serious. They were seeking our data, but that would have normally been, I think, front and center at any president's agenda, probably of either party.

Susan Rice (45:58)

Absolutely. I mean, you know, the cyber crimes of Russia are legion. And of course, in normal circumstances, a responsible president of the United States would bring that up, among other things. Instead, to the extent that they seem to have had an interest in discussing anything beyond Ukraine, which really seemed like an afterthought, they seem to be more interested in discussing how to restart and improve the bilateral relationship between Russia and the United States. And he brought his economic team with him. Trump did. And I'm sure that in the conversations among the U.S. and Russian economic teams, there was a lot of discussion about what could be achieved bilaterally on that front, which is, again, a reward for nothing. We've completely let Putin out of the penalty box, and Donald Trump walked away with nothing in return.

Jen Psaki (46:54)

Ambassador Susan Rice, always a straight talker, has more experience than almost anyone I know. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Okay, thanks for having me, Jen. We have more to come next hour, more on the abbreviated summit between Trump and Putin, plus news about a setback in President Trump's attempt to takeover of D.C. stay with us.

Kelly Ripa (47:17)

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six. Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx, nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa now. Wherever you get your podcasts.