Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (3:39)

We'll speak to you very soon and probably see you again very soon. Thank you very much, Vladimir.

Ben Rhodes (3:45)

Next time in Moscow.

Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (3:48)

Oh, that's an interesting one. I don't know.

Michael McFaul (3:50)

I'll get a little heat on that.

Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (3:51)

One, but I could see it possibly happening.

Jen Psaki (3:56)

So there was that. I'm joined now by Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for the New York Times, formerly the Moscow bureau chief. Michael McFaul is the former US ambassador to Russia, and Ben Rhodes is a former deputy national security adviser under President Obama. Let me start with you, Peter Baker. I think you were standing on the side of the road in Alaska, if I am correct. So thank you for doing that. But you were. That is a real commitment as a journalist after attending the meeting today or being a part of the meeting. We have very little information about what came out of the meeting today. They met for three hours. Let me first just start asking you. You're an excellent, relentless reporter, if there's anything new you've learned from any aides or anyone who participated in any part of it.

Peter Baker (4:39)

Yeah, well, thank you, Jan. They've kicked us off the air base, which is why I'm standing here, not too far away at this point. But, yeah, it was a fascinating and remarkable day. I've been covering US Russian presidential summits going back to 1998. I can't think of another one quite like this. Summi is a word you use. I think it's a very good word. Convivial, cordial, friendly. As you pointed out, they could not possibly be any more as if they were best of buddies, you know, you would not know that Vladimir Putin, as you put it, was under indictment, or at least not under indictment, but arrest warrant for war crimes. They did not come away with an agreement. Trump said on the plane out today he wanted to have an immediate ceasefire by the end of the day. He left town on Air Force One without that. Now, as you say, we don't know what happened behind closed doors, and they're not telling us. This is an unusual White House. They don't tend to brief us in the way that other White Houses would have, the way Mike McFaul's White House would have briefed us, the way Ben Rhodes White House would have briefed us. And so we're left guessing to some extent. But the body language, obviously, was very good. And I think it would be hard to find a meeting that would be more conducive to what Vladimir Putin wanted out of this. Right. He got to be back on the world stage. He's not in handcuffs. He's obviously welcomed as a friend, not as an adversary. He made no commitment to end the war. He did not walk away with severe consequences, which is the words that Donald Trump had used if he didn't end the war. And in fact, as you say, he's now talking about hosting Trump for a meeting of his own in Moscow as if everything was back to normal.

Jen Psaki (6:13)

That last part was just strange to watch. Let me ask you, I mean, Ambassador McFaul, you've been on with us for the last couple of hours. We keep learning some new things and some new details, and one of them that stuck out to me is Putin reportedly gave Trump maps and historical materials that painted a skewed picture of Ukraine being a part of Russia. I know this is sort of a tactic that he has done before or that he likes to do. What's interesting to me about it is it tells you as much as we all think, oh, there's leverage. He's there to negotiate, and he's going give back land and territory. It tells you how much he sees Ukraine as a part of Russia. But help us understand, in the audience, understand the significance of that and what that tells us, really, about how Putin views all of this.

Michael McFaul (6:55)

Well, you're right. We were talking about it earlier, before the meeting, and I worried that this is exactly what he would do. He would give Trump a history lesson with maps. Putin likes maps, by the way. He's. I've seen him show other senior administration officials maps. He has a very skewed sense of that history. That's history according to Putin. But if you don't know the history, then you're just going to nod and go along. Just to put it very bluntly, Putin doesn't think that Ukraine exists as a nation. He thinks Ukrainians are just Russians with accents that first the bolsheviks back in 1917 and then us when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, artificially divided what he thinks is one nation. And in the press conference, again, just through the translator, I haven't seen the actual Russian yet, he intimated that again, he said, we're friends. This is a friendly country to us. And I'm sure that that's what he was trying to explain to President Trump. I hope the president pushed back on it. I hope the president said there's no excuse for imperial wars, there's no excuse for annexation. You're terrorizing Ukrainian civilians every single night. You've kidnapp 20,000 Ukrainian children. Please give them back. I hope that that's what President Trump said. But judging by the body language, I'm pretty sure he didn't.

Jen Psaki (8:19)

Ambassador McFall and I want to go to you, Ben Rhodes next. We're learning some Trump taped an interview with Sean Hannity, of course, after this, before he got on the plane. So we're learning some of what he said. And he said the meeting, in his view, was a 10 out of 10 because we got along great, which tells you a lot. He also said he liked when Putin said the war wouldn't have happened if he were president, which you could kind of see the reaction on his face when Putin said that. But Ben, one of the things that's striking, and you've written some excellent books about versions of this, is just how different it is, how Trump views the world and kind of the global order. I mean, he also had a call with the president of Belarus today, Alexander Lukashenko. He has a different view of sort of who are people to work with who are potentially partners than past presidents of both parties have had. And even his answers on Hannity are quite telling in that regard. But give us a sense of your take on that and the day and how Trump has kind of flipped a little bit of like the world order around.

Ben Rhodes (9:25)

Well, yeah, look, I mean, these are the people that Trump sees as his peers, right? I mean, let's compare the meeting with Zelensky in the Oval Office where he essentially humiliated him, took Putin's side, blamed Zelensky for the war. Compare the body language and the tone in that meeting to what we saw today. You know, Lukashenko, president of Belarus, he is, he used to be called the last Dictator in Europe now, you know, he has some competition for that title. Why is he calling Lukashenko? What is that about? That's. That's one of the few people that kind of went along with support for Putin's invasion. Then he gets in the room with Putin and your point about Trump falling for the flattery about this war never would have happened. Putin is playing him. So obviously, Putin did not concede an inch on his core demands that have not changed since Trump said he'd end this war on day one of his administration. He wants recognition of the annexation of all the territory that Russia currently controls and maybe a little more. He wants a pledge that Ukraine will never be in NATO. He wants Ukraine to be demilitarized. And he probably wants Zelensky out. Those are his demands. And he knows that since he can't concede those things, he's not going to. You know, he comes in and he flatters Trump. He talks about how great he is. He talks about what great friends they are, by the way. That makes him, you know, an equal to the president, United States. And then he, you know, he reads our news. He knows what Trump wants to hear. So he says, oh, this war never would happen if you were president. Well, of course it would have happened because Vladimir Putin has wanted the same thing for a long time, which is Ukraine. And this is a point I really want to stress, Jen. Vladimir Putin thinks in long stretches of history. Donald Trump thinks in terms of news cycles. And what he's going to say to Sean Hannity about how the meeting was a 10 out of 10. That's the fundamental problem here. Like, Putin doesn't, you know, Putin just, you know, he needs to get Trump through his news cycle by giving him something he can say on Fox. He'll just say, sure, this war never would happen if you were present. But. But Putin's fundamental view of the war is. Encompasses hundreds of years of history, as Mike alluded to. Right. He sees Ukraine as fundamentally not a nation state. And Donald Trump is looking for some quick win or something he can spin in the news cycle, and that's just not going to cut it. But I think what is more profoundly distressing here is the fact that this is the kind of company that Trump wants to keep. Putin, Lukashenko, right. Nay Bukele in El Salvador, Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is tariffing the Brazilians because they're prosecuting him for trying to overthrow the government. He's more comfortable with these autocrats than he is with Democratic allies or than he is with President Zelensky. Who is the president of a country that actually got invaded, who is excluded from this meeting today so that Trump could sit down with Putin and look at a bunch of maps of Ukraine, which he's decided. He's literally described Trump. This is a real estate deal, a real estate deal he's doing with Putin without the country whose land he's talking about. Right. And so it's both distressing because it's put us in the club of the world's autocrats, but also because, again, this clash of someone with a long view of history and Putin, who's willing to absorb pain, who's willing to absorb sanctions, who's willing to absorb tariffs, he's not intimidated by tariff threats. The only leverage you could get on him is not just isolation, but providing that military support to Ukraine. And if that's turned off, Putin knows he can wait out Trump one meeting, two meetings, however many it takes.

Jen Psaki (12:52)

Ambassador McFaul, I asked you this in the last hour. I mean, you are in touch with the Ukrainians. They are, to Ben's point, the most important party that was not there. And there still is this remaining question. As much as much of today was a mystery as to where to go from here, as Russia has had some of the best. They had one of the best weeks they've had militarily this week. What are they sort of saying at this point, and in your view, and I asked Ambassador Rice this in the last hour, if a president wanted to actually end this, what kind of leverage could they use? What do you wish they were doing to actually end the war?

Michael McFaul (13:26)

Well, first, I want to underscore that since President Trump has been in the White House, the war has gotten more aggressive. There's been more attacks on Ukrainian civilians by multiples. The number of drones and missiles that are lobbed at civilians has gone up, not down. So this myth that the president got some help from Putin, that there would be no war if I were president. Well, you are president, and the war is getting worse. I think people need to understand that basic fact. Second, the president himself said in the lowering of expectations that he hoped at a minimum, he could get agreement for a trilateral meeting with President Zelenskyy. Now, he hinted at that at the end of the press conference or the exchange of views. It wasn't a press conference, but there was no agreement to that. And my reaction that I see out of Ukraine is disappointment about that. The most minimal thing that was supposed to happen did not. I still hope that there was something concrete that was done that might lead to an end of this horrific, barbaric invasion of Ukraine. But right now we don't have any evidence to support that hope.

Jen Psaki (14:40)

Peter Baker, thank you for your dedication to joining us on the side of the road. That is high marks for that. Ambassador McFaul, you have been keeping us updated for hours. Thank you. And Ben Rhodes, thank you for tying the pieces all together so well. Appreciate all three of you for joining me. We're going to take a quick break. Coming up, the man who did not get a seat at the table had a lot to say about what all of this means for his country. We're back in 90 seconds.

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After a short three hour meeting over the Russian invasion of Ukraine and some of the briefest remarks we have seen from Donald Trump in some time, he and Russian President Vladimir Putin are now on their way back to their respective capitals without a peace deal or a ceasefire or any agreement or really much of anything to show for themselves. I mean. The third and perhaps most significant party to today's peace talks, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, was not even invited, but he wasn't silent. Just before Putin touched down in Anchorage. Zelensky posted this on social media on the day of negotiations. The Russians are killing as well. And that speaks volumes. Recently, we've discussed with the US And Europeans what can truly work. Everyone needs a just end to the war. Ukraine is ready to work as productively as possible to bring the war to an end. And we count on a strong position from America. Everything will depend on this. The Russian factors in American strength make no mistake strength. Just as that Trump Putin press conference was ending, air raid sirens began going off in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. According to NBC News, since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, nearly 14,000 civilians have been killed, including more than 700 children. Every day this war continues, those numbers increase. And today was no different. Joining us now is retired U.S. army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. General Hartling, I have so many questions here, and one of the parties that is the most important party was not in attendance today, which is the Ukrainians. And what I would love to know from you is how you see kind of where things stand for Ukraine militarily. I mean, can they afford for the US to walk away? The Europeans are clearly stepping up to some degree, but they don't, I don't think, have enough to step up and totally replace the United States. So help us understand what the repercussions are if the US Continues to withdraw from supporting them as they have over the last couple of years.

Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (18:22)

It's going to be tough, Jen. When you go down the list of things that the United States provides, not just the equipment and the ammunition, but also the intelligence, which is critical, which we've been providing since the start of the war, it's going to cause a shortfall on what the Ukrainians can do. Having said that, though, they have stepped up immensely over the last probably year and a half in terms of their capability in targeting what they can hit, what they can range and the kinds of assets they have in terms of primarily their drone warfare or their unmanned aerial systems and unmanned naval systems. They have done a miraculous job in terms of building a capability and also improving their ability to get more ammunition. But, you know, it's going to be tough. We provide quite a bit not only to Ukraine, but to the Europeans as well. So you're seeing the Europeans offering some things for the Ukrainians, things that we have given them in the past or provided them through foreign military sales, and they are doing well. But it's a stalemate. It's been a stalemate for over about a year and a half on the Eastern front in Donbas, and it's going to continue to be that way because Russia keeps pouring manpower in, but they are Russia is suffering incredible losses and they just continue to go with their cannon meat, as they call it. We call it a meat grinder in terms of forcing forces that are untrained and uncapable of dismantling the Ukrainian front. It's going to be tough, though. It's going to be very Tough.

Jen Psaki (20:01)

One of the things that struck me about Zelenskyy's message was he wanted people to hear from him. This war is continuing. They are continuing to attack Ukraine today. We're hearing sirens in Ukraine today. You trained many of the commanders or Ukrainians who were fighting back in 2014. How do you think, to the degree you can speculate on it, like they would see a summit or a meeting like the one today. Do they just look the other way? Do they have any hope of what could come out of it, or how would they view such a thing?

Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (20:32)

No, they certainly don't look the other way, Jen, and thanks for asking that question. I've got to admit, I'm biased. Tour the Ukraine, I worked with them for several years. We established a training center from US Army Europe in Heidelberg, all the way up to Yavariv, which is just north, north of Lviv in the western part, or excuse me, the eastern part of Ukraine. Trained a lot of non commissioned officers at our training academy in Grafenwehr, Germany. But also my partner in Ukraine was a guy named Colonel General Mikhail Voroviov. He and I had a very intense relationship. He had served in the Soviet army, but he was a Ukrainian. When he came back to Ukraine, he wrote his doctoral thesis on how to transform the Ukrainian army to be more like a Western force. And we worked hand in Glove in 2011 and 2012. He became my friend. Unfortunately, he died a few years ago from cancer. But I got to tell you, he transformed the army to be a Western force because he knew back in 2010, even before the first invasion of Ukraine in 2014, that Russia was going to try and usurp their territory. I've trained with many Russians, know many of their colonels that became generals, knew many of their sergeants that became senior sergeants and lieutenants. A lot of them have died on the battlefield. So for me, this their fight is my fight. And seeing what happened today, I have a visceral response. I know how the Ukrainians are reacting to this. And I'd also say my wife and I were in Europe for several weeks a few weeks ago, and we saw in countries like Estonia and Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Sweden and Finland, more Ukrainian flags than there were those country flags. They support this because they know what Russia is all about. And what I'd repeat a thousand times is we seem to be disavowing Mr. Putin's actions, his thousands of war crimes, his violations of the Geneva Convention and the laws of land warfare, and suddenly we're buddies with them again and giving someone who is a pariah primarily on the world stage, new credibility. And that just is really disheartening to me. And it's criminal from the standpoint of what the Ukrainians feel.

Jen Psaki (22:56)

It's really powerful to hear how personally you feel at somebody who has spent time training them and with them. I also think it's one of my biggest takeaways today is that Putin was welcomed back out of isolation into the international community after a decade of being on the outside, which is perhaps the biggest damage from today. We'll learn more, I'm sure, over the coming days. Retired U.S. army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you again so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. And when we come back, we're going to talk about what on earth happened for the 10 minutes that Trump and Putin were alone together in a car, which is very strange. More on that just ahead.

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Jen Psaki (25:24)

The way that it felt in the room was not good. It did not seem like things went well. And it seemed like Putin came in and steamrolled, got right into what he wanted to say and got his photo.

Julia Yaffe (25:38)

Next to the president and then left.

Jen Psaki (25:40)

It did not seem like things went well. That is what it seemed like to me, too. But that's how a Fox News reporter who was in the room, Jackie Heinrich, characterized Donald Trump's weird, not really a press conference 12 minute statement today with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Putin, quote, steamrolled the president by being the first one to characterize this private meeting on his terms in Russian. I mean, Putin began and ended the day smiling ear to ear on American soil. It all started when Putin touched down in Anchorage for that red carpet, literal red carpet welcome from Trump, who greeted Putin with a chummy handshake and some weird clapping before that. Trump then welcomed Putin in the armored presidential Cadillac limousine known as the Beast, where he was seen through the window flashing another big grin. Then after two and a half hours behind closed doors, we saw Putin come out and effectively declare victory, claiming he and Trump had reached an agreement, which Trump then denied, sort of. But Putin had already set the narrative.

Andrea Mitchell (26:36)

He was there.

Jen Psaki (26:36)

Optically. He won today. Joining me now is NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell, who watched us closely today, has covered many of these summits in the past. Let me start by conveying, and you may have seen some of this, Andrea, Trump is defending the conference. He told fox's Sean Hannity a few minutes ago that on a scale of 1 to 10, he'd give today's conference a 10 because of how well they got along, which I think tells us a lot about how he sees the relationship and what the relationship should be like. But what do you make of that and what were your big takeaways from today and what have you learned, if anything, over the last hour?

Andrea Mitchell (27:15)

Well, he's certainly grading on a curve because let's go to court, if his standard is how well they get along. Yes, he gets along well with Vladimir Putin. But in other people's eyes, that's not a plus. That's not the president of the United States standing up to an adversary and having a business like meeting which could have well been held on that Air Force base, as you know very well You've been there so many times yourself. There are plenty of places where they could have had a very official business meeting. They didn't have to have a red carpet. They didn't have to have a presidential greeting, certainly did not have to have Vladimir Putin riding in the presidential limo. And a number of your guests, Susan Rice, John Brennan, have pointed out that they hope the Secret Service is sweeping it for any potential bugs. This coming just five or so days after, there was a report that Russia has, once again, according to the New York Times, which we have not fully confirmed, but have gotten some indications from people briefed on it, that it is, in fact, Russia has again hacked into, in this time, our court system, similar to the solar winds hack in 2020. So it is the MO and when the president was asked about that a couple of days ago, he said, yeah, he'd been briefed on it, and it's what they do, and then added, it's what we do also, which is true. But in any case, today was really a bad performance by the President and by all of his advisors. Unless we discover that something extraordinary has happened that has really come out of this, because President Putin was drawn out of his isolation, where he's been on the world stage, where Europeans won't let him land without potentially arresting him because he's under indictment from the World Court, and he is being seen as an equal, more than an equal. He spoke first. He was much more, in his body language, much more comfortable than the president, and repeated a lot of what he has said previously about the origins of the war and indicated that the root causes have to be resolved. And the root cause, as far as he's concerned, is canceling all of the treaties and all of the agreements over decades and decades by which Ukraine, with Russia's agreement, became its own democratic country.

Jen Psaki (29:45)

It's such an. That's such an important point. And part of this, I mean, we're also waiting to hear from Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. He's yet to put out a statement on the press conference. I would expect we'll hear something he appreciated. He was warning just days ago that the Kremlin would try to deceive America and convince Trump that Ukraine, not Russia, is the obstacle to peace. Which even watching all of today, it's easy to see how he would be worried about that. You have so many contacts all around the world. Are you hearing anything from the officials in the Ukrainian government or citizens about today's conference and sort of where they go from here?

Andrea Mitchell (30:20)

Yeah, that is exactly what Ukrainian officials are saying. Very privately waiting for Zelenskyy, of course, to take the lead and to have been briefed by the president of the U.S. he said he was going to call him right away. And what he's just said to Hannity, by the way, with whom he, you know, talked before talking to European leaders and to Zelenskyy, is that he and Putin had a good private conversation after their public statements. So after making those statements, not taking questions, which presumably was the preference of Putin, because President Trump does enjoy taking questions and has been very approachable that way, unlike some of his predecessors, more so than most. And in any case, they had, according to the president, a good conversation after their public appearance. So that's also potentially worrying.

Jen Psaki (31:14)

He also said it was up to Zelensky, and we still don't know what that means because we don't know the details of what an agreement or what was discussed or much of what happened during that three hours. I'm sure we'll learn more in the coming days. Andrea Mitchell, thank you as always for staying with us.

Andrea Mitchell (31:28)

Thank you.

Jen Psaki (31:28)

Okay, we got to take a quick. Thank you. Okay, we got to take a quick break. Coming up, Vladimir Putin spent part of his time on camera today treating his global audience to a history lesson. We'll unpack what that was all about just ahead. When Vladimir Putin announced his invasion of Ukraine, he justified it by offering a long revisionist history about Russia's relationship with Ukraine. Today, when Putin kicked off his brief press conference with Donald Trump, brief by 12 minutes. I mean, he began with another history lesson, this time about Russia's relationship with the United States. We're close neighbors and it's a fact. It's also important that Alaska has to.

Peter Baker (32:19)

Do with our common heritage, common history between Russia and the US and many positive events have to do with that territory. Still, there is tremendous cultural heritage back.

Jen Psaki (32:29)

From The Russian America, for example, Orthodox.

Peter Baker (32:31)

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Jen Psaki (32:37)

We'll always remember other historical examples when our countries defeated common enemies together in the spirit of battle, camaraderie and allyship. So why did the Russian leaders spend so much of this press conference about Ukraine talking about the history between Russia and the United States? He loves a history lesson. He had maps, two in the meeting, apparently. But joining me now is Julia Yaffe, Washington correspondent for Puck News, who has covered this for a long time, wrote a really fascinating piece recently for Puck, which we'll also talk about. But let me start by just asking you, I mean, you have covered Putin for a long time. What did you make of the meeting? What do you make of the historical digression, the inclusion of maps today in the meeting? What'd you make of all of it? I think I'm having trouble. Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Julia Yaffe (33:28)

I think I'm old and I mute myself on zoom. Okay.

Jen Psaki (33:31)

We've all been there.

Julia Yaffe (33:34)

Well, I think it was, you know, it was par for the course for Putin. He loves a good history lesson, as you know, with Obama, he would start with these history lessons that you all called the airing of grievances. With Tucker Carlson, he gave him a long history lesson that went back to, what, the 10th, 11th century? And today we got a history lesson about lending. I think is interesting because for the last 10 years, Putin and Russian propaganda have avoided mentioning Lend Lease like the plague, because Lend Lease actually helped the Soviet Union quite a bit to not collapse in the face of the Nazi invasion in 1941. 42. And acknowledging that saying that World War II is sacrosanct, it's part of the ruling cult of Vladimir Putin, and saying that America helped us win, that was a no go zone. For the last 10 years, the narrative was very much, we won World War II on our own. We did all the killing and dying. The Americans are cowards. They didn't get in until 1944 to kind of put the cherry on the Sunday. But we did all of the. All the hard work. So it was interesting that he started with that. And before he came over to the US and hopped the international dateline, he went and laid a wreath at the memorial for fighter pilots who flew those missions. I think it was just theatrics to butter up Trump. But what I made of it was Vladimir Putin showed up for the win to pocket the win. He didn't need a deal. But he knew damn well that Donald Trump was incredibly thirsty for one, because he's just collecting countries today. He was talking about, what, Cambodia and Rwanda in the Congo, Azerbaijan in Armenia. He's just seeing this, like, charms on a bracelet. And I think Putin knows that he. Again, it was very clear in watching the Russian propaganda in the lead up to this summit and talking to sources in Moscow. Everybody was saying that, you know, we know Donald Trump really wants a deal. We don't really need one. If anything, a ceasefire or a peace deal right now would hold us back and would be detrimental for Russia.

Jen Psaki (35:50)

We're winning, Thirsty for a deal. I'm just. We're going to put that on a T shirt somewhere and give you Credit for it, because that seems to be Trump's motto. You know, I think to your point, the question I've been asking people is sort of like, what leverage in this moment does Trump really have? Because to your point, I mean, you watch more Russian propaganda than I do, but we've been paying attention to it a bit. They've made a lot of military progress. This was a particularly successful military week or so in Russia. I may have read that, actually, in your piece. I mean, I'm sorry, in Ukraine, for Russia. And it's like, why would they make a deal at this point? What leverage do you think the US really has if they really want to seek something like a ceasefire or actual. An actual end to this war?

Julia Yaffe (36:37)

Well, they could do the things that Keith Kellogg, who was originally supposed to be Trump's adviser on this, but is now just dealing with the Ukraine part, if at all. What he was saying, if you remember last summer, heading into the election, he was saying that if Vladimir Putin doesn't cooperate and doesn't give Donald Trump the deal, then Donald Trump will arm Ukraine to the hilt, will give them. Will flood Ukraine with weapons and slam Russia with sanctions so that he knows they're serious. But Trump has avoided doing that. And he took the bait. You know, he also obviously needed the distraction from the, from the Epstein files. But, you know, the deadline that he had set for Vladimir Putin expired, and on that same day, said Putin said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait, let's do a summit, right? And Donald Trump, like a fool, invited him. Somebody who has an ICC warrant out for his arrest invited him onto American soil. It was interesting that Putin made sure to mention that this was Trump's idea to have him in Alaska, had American uniform troops literally on their knees rolling out the red carpet in front of the Russian presidential jet. I mean, he couldn't have. Putin couldn't have gotten better images than if he had paid for them himself and had his people stage them. This was incredible. And it's a huge diplomatic win for him. And what did Donald Trump get for it in return? Bupkis. Nothing. I mean, what a deal maker.

Jen Psaki (38:09)

Bupkis. Although an invitation perhaps to Moscow and maybe a continued delay tactics that Trump may continue to be a fool over. Julia Yaffe, thank you for writing. Thank you, thank you for all your expertise and thank you for being with us here tonight. I really appreciate it. Okay, we're going to change gears a bit with a major about face from Trump's Justice Department over the President's attempt to take control of policing in the nation's capital. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Well, Donald Trump was on the other side of the country today doing still we don't know a lot about. Back in Washington, his administration faced a significant setback in its attempt to seize control of our nation's capital, something they've been really trying hard to do this week. Today, lawyers from the Trump Department of Justice told federal Judge Anaraeus that the DOJ would reverse course on its previously announced order to effectively strip power from Washington, D.C. police and hand it over to the federally controlled Drug Enforcement Agency. The administration will now hammer out the details of a temporary agreement with the city until the court can make a more thorough determination of the federal government's authority to take over Washington, at least for now. DC's Police Chief Pamela Smith remains in control even as Attorney General Pam Bondi has appointed DEA Administrator Terry Cole to help direct law enforcement actions in the city. Joining me now is Democratic Massachusetts Representative Jake Aginclos, a former Marine who served in Afghanistan. Congressman, obviously a lot happened today, sort of a lot we don't know about. I want to ask you about that, too, but I just want to start with your reaction to today's news that the D.C. chief of police remains in control, at least for now.

USAA Advertiser (39:51)

Jen, good evening. Thanks for having me back on. I think this episode is an opportunity to both resist and to reinvent. Home rules should be respected, and I've always voted that way because Washington, D.C. residents should be allowed to govern themselves. It's also true, Jen, that law and order is not being fully maintained in the nation's capital. I was just speaking to a young woman who lives on 14th street and she told me that in the last two days she has felt more safe that previously the open air drug use was leading to drug users following her where she was walking home, making her feel unsafe. That stopped now. And Democrats have to ask ourselves the question of are we gonna be the ones who maintain law and order in our cities or are we gonna let MAGA do it for us? Because law and order is not just about constitutional abstractions and separation of powers, as vital as those are. It's also about making sure you can go into a pharmacy and buy shampoo without having the clerk unlock it for you.

Jen Psaki (40:54)

Look, I think this is an interesting point because while I, and I think you, you tell me, don't love the National Guard, don't love the attempt to take over Washington, D.C. or other cities, there are still crime in cities. Their crime will not be eliminated entirely People's safety is something that still needs to be acknowledged. Just how you do it is the question. Right. Or the part of it. And who does it and who's in control of it. We know that Trump wants to expand this. Right. D.C. is sort of just a starting point or a model. You obviously represent a part of Boston. Have you spoken with the mayor there? How do you feel about this attempt to kind of do something similar? The laws are a little bit different, but to use this as a version of a model to bring to cities like Boston.

USAA Advertiser (41:38)

Well, the laws are a lot different, as you know. Right. I mean, D.C. is subject to the president and Congress in a way that no other American city is. Would be grossly inappropriate to try to militarize the police forces of any American city. Violation of the principle of posse comitatus. And when he tried it in Los Angeles, I and many others spoke out forcefully against it and it mattered. I think he did feel like he touched a hot stove there and had to pull back. I think to your point, Jen, about the crime, it's not only that you can't get crime down to zero. I think there's also a distinction between the violent crime that everyone agrees is totally unacceptable, gun crime and murder and homicide, rape, assault, but also sort of quality of life degradations, the shoplifting, the open air, drug use, the loitering, the encampments, the things that in too many cities I don't think the police have been responding to and that degrade people's sense of safety. But people deserve to feel safe in public accommodations. And not just safe, they deserve to feel comfortable. And we've got to do a better job of that. It undermines social order otherwise.

Jen Psaki (42:44)

I think that's true. I think the concern I feel, and I think a lot of people feel about what we're seeing in D.C. is you're talking about people who are unhoused homeless encampments and the suggestion that they're going to be sent to homeless shelters that are already full or to rehab facilities and who's paying for that? Or they're going to go to jail. So they're going to send people to jail. And is that the right thing to do? And also whether military in the streets should be normalized. I think that's the concern from a lot of people here. But I take your point. It's an important thing to discuss a part of it. Let me ask you, I mean, you served your country, of course, as I mentioned, as a United States Marine in Afghanistan, you follow national security issues very Closely. What did you make of today's scene with the president welcoming an accused war criminal onto a US Military base? And anything else that you took away from today?

USAA Advertiser (43:33)

American troops literally on their knees as Vladimir Putin walked on a red carpet. Just embarrassing. Another embarrassing episode from this president on the national security stage. And your previous guest, I think, put it very well. He's thirsty for a deal. The only way to get a deal with Vladimir Putin is through strength, not through whining and dining him. And you would ask, Jen, you know, what's the leverage? The leverage is actually quite clear. The leverage is you take the 300 billion euros of frozen Russian assets held in Brussels, you take those 300 billion euros, you use it to fund Ukraine's military industrial complex. You authorize Ukraine to use long range missiles to strike inside of Russia. You strangle Russia's oil economy through sanctions and price caps. And you let Ukraine join Article 42.7 of the Lisbon Treaty in the European Union. That gives it a collective defense clause with Germany and France and others. That is strength. Then you tell Putin to come to a neutral third country and then you negotiate from strength, not this.

Jen Psaki (44:36)

Congressman Jay Goddenklass. Solutions are such a key part of it. Thank you again for joining me. Still to come tonight, if you ever wondered what does Donald Trump really want, we may have an answer. Among the competing interests at the summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin today was one thing Trump really wants out of his negotiations with Russia over Ukraine. The White House spelled it out with a social media post just the other day. Here's what it said. Worldwide calls for President Trump to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Really, Worldwide is doing a lot of work there. I don't know who is calling for that. And his press secretary, Caroline Levitt, has been campaigning for him to get it from the White House briefing room podium. I mean, today, Trump's 2016 opponent, Hillary Rodham Clinton said that she would nominate Trump for the prize herself. That is, if he can end Putin's war without giving away Ukrainian territory to Russia. That is, of course, is doing a lot of heavy lifting. That does it for me tonight. Thank you all for joining me.

Kelly Ripa (45:36)

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And have you been listening to my podcast? We are knee deep in season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six, Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx, nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Rippa now. Wherever you get your podcasts.