← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump resorts to the ridiculous, desperate to reverse engineer the 2020 election
00:41:30
Jen Psaki rounds up the myriad conspiracy theories and random ideas that Donald Trump has his White House staff chasing down in a desperate effort to make himself feel better about his loss to Joe Biden in 2020, and to justify taking control of the election process going forward under the guise of keeping elections honest.
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Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply it was already a huge red flag. I mean, a huge one. It was already the kind of thing that sets off alarm bells in your head. At least that's how I felt when I saw that now infamous photo of the Director of National Intelligence. That's the one right on your screen there. Tulsi Gabbard lurking like a sort of spy, bad spy, I guess, on a loading dock at the elections office in Fulton County, Georgia last week. Hat pulled down over her eyes as the FBI hauled away boxes and boxes of ballots from the 2020. But as if that wasn't sketchy enough, that photo and all the reporting around it wasn't sketchy enough. It has become 10 times more suspicious over the past week as we have watched the administration struggle to explain how she ended up there. I mean, just listen to this. This was the first explanation we got from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche on Friday. Could you please explain Tulsi Gabbard's role.
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B
In DOJ activity regarding the Fulton county search? What do you mean her role?
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A
It was reported that she was.
- [02:07]
B
She happened to be present in Atlanta. I mean, yes, I saw the same photos you did. I mean, she's not. She doesn't work for the Department of Justice or the FBI.
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A
The scorn. Todd Blanche is annoyed. Can you tell? The eyebrow. All of it. All right, so according to Todd Blanche, she just happened to be there. It was all just a coincidence. When in Georgia? Why not pop by the latest raid? I guess so. That was explanation number one. Then on Monday, we got a different explanation from Gabbard herself, who wrote in a letter to members of Congress saying, my presence was requested by the President. Very clear. So that was explanation number two, a direct order from the President of the United States. Then yesterday, Trump himself was asked why Gabbard was there. And this is what he said.
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B
I'm not involved in it, but they are inspecting and checking the bell. Why is Tulsi Gabbard there? I don't know.
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A
I don't know. I don't know why. My own director of National Intelligence, who told Congress I sent her to Fulton county in a letter, was there all news to me? I don't know. Tom Yamas? No idea. So that was yesterday. Then this morning, Trump seemed to have a completely different explanation.
- [03:22]
B
We have our Director of National and International Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, who's doing a great job. Where's Tulsi? She took a lot of heat two days ago because she went in at Pam's insistence. She went in and she looked at votes.
- [03:46]
A
Oh, so now it was at Pam's insistence. So now it was Attorney General Pam Bondi's decision to send Tulsi Gabbard there. That's crazy, because I could have sworn I heard someone deny that Tulsi Gabbard has any role with the Department of Justice. Right. I saw the same photos you did.
- [04:05]
B
I mean, she's not. She doesn't work for the Department of Justice or the FBI.
- [04:09]
A
Okay, there you go. That's Pam Bonney's deputy there now. So after all of that, this afternoon, reporters tried to, once again, of course, get clarity on this question from White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, but she somehow managed to make it even more confusing. Did President Trump himself ever ask DNI Gabbard to head down to Fulton County, Georgia? Ms. The President was asked and answered that question just yesterday. The president was asked and answered that question yesterday. But yesterday the president said he didn't know how she got there, and today he said Pam Bondi sent her there. And Pam Bondi's number two at DOJ says Gabbard just happened to be there. And Tulsi Gabbard says the president told her to be there. Are you confused? I mean, which is it? I mean, even by this administration's very low bar, it seems like they're being unusually especially cagey about this, like they're either lying or can't keep their stories straight or both. I mean, we already knew that something was afoot thanks to the Wall Street Journal, which revealed last week that Tulsi Gabbard had been given a new role leading the administration's effort to reexamine the 2020 election. And as part of that new role, White House officials told the Journal she has pursued theories that President Trump has promoted to claim the 2020 election was unfairly taken from him. That's her assignment of sorts. And the Journal also reported that she regularly briefs Trump on that investigation, as well as senior officials at the Department of Justice. So when Todd Blanche, the deputy Attorney general. I've showed you a few times. Clutches his pearls when he is asked when Gabbard what Gabbard was doing in Georgia, it turns out senior officials in his own department were receiving regular briefings on her shady project. Maybe even him, who knows? And now new reporting suggests that Gabbard's mission to retroactively prove that Trump was a victim of a rigged election is far bigger than we know. And surprise, surprise, as in, this is not a surprise at all. This is very predictable. It extends far beyond Georgia. Reuters is now reporting that back in the spring, Tulsi Gabbard led an investigation into Puerto Rico's voting machines. And that's according to three sources. The goal, according to the story, was to work with the FBI to investigate claims that Venezuela has had hacked voting machines in Puerto Rico. And Gabbard's agency took on a coordinating role in that investigation. And our office told Reuters that they actually took an unspecified number of Puerto Rico's voting machines, as well as additional copies of data from the machines as part of its investigation. Let me just put a fine point on that, because months before that unprecedented raid in Georgia last week, the Office of National Intelligence of the Director of National Intelligence was already working with the FBI to seize voting machines in Puerto Rico on a wild goose chase to hunt down evidence that Venezuela meddled with those machines. Now, three sources familiar with these events told Reuters the probe did not produce any clear evidence of Venezuelan interference in Puerto Rico's elections. Shocker. Of course it didn't. And Gabbard's office, despite confirming the existence of this investigation, denied that it has actually anything to do with Venezuela. They claim that this was all about searching for vulnerabilities in the island's electronic voting systems. That's what they say. But I just want to dig into that baseless allegation about Venezuelan vote rigging for a moment, because we already know that Trump himself has been absolutely fixated on this idea. In fact, Trump himself breathed new life into that conspiracy theory in a flurry of posts on social media. Both before and after authorizing military action against Venezuela to topple Nicolas Maduro. And not only that, but long before we knew of Tulsi Gabbard's involvement in all of this. The Guardian reported in November that Trump's DOJ had been investigating the discredited claims of Venezuelan vote rigging. They revealed that two promoters of the bogus Venezuela conspiracy theory had repeatedly briefed Trump's U.S. attorney for the District of Puerto Rico and. And that he had been very receptive to their claims. So there's that. And right around the same time that report came out, the New York Times reported that Venezuela's main opposition figure, Maria Machado, had also begun amplifying those same debunked claims that the Venezuelan government rigged the U.S. election, which, of course, fueled accusations that she was embracing misinformation to gain favor with the Trump administration. Now, all of this was happening in the weeks late last fall leading up to Trump's decision to send US Troops into Venezuela and capture Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. So clearly this conspiracy theory was on Trump's mind. And let's remember here that this Venezuela election conspiracy didn't just pop out of nowhere. It's been around a while. I mean, it's most closely associated with Trump's crank lawyer, Sidney Powell, the notorious election denier who later pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy. There she is in many boxes on your screen. Now, in the days just after the 2020 election, when Trump first started promoting his big lie, she and Rudy Giuliani ranted endlessly about how Venezuelan voting machines had manipulated the vote. I'm going to release the Kraken.
- [09:28]
B
And very interestingly, you're going to see that Venezuela is involved in this voter fraud.
- [09:34]
A
I can hardly wait to put forth all the evidence we have collected on Dominion, starting with the fact it was created to produce altered voting results in Venezuela for Hugo Chavez.
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B
We use, largely a Venezuelan voting machine, in essence, to count our vote. We let this happen, we're going to become Venezuela.
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A
The massive influence of Communist money through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China.
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B
Smartmatic, which is a company started in Venezuela and built for the purpose of stealing elections.
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A
Check it out.
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B
It's all true.
- [10:18]
A
That's just some of it. There's tons and tons more where that came from. Point is, they were everywhere, everywhere, trying to convince Trump's most gullible supporters that Venezuela had rigged the election in 2020. In fact, the Venezuela lie was among the many false claims that were debunked in the lawsuit filed by Dominion Voting Systems against Fox News back in 2023. You know, the one that cost the network almost $800 million. As the judge said at the time, it is crystal clear that none of the statements relating to dominion about the 2020 election are true. So these claims were debunked years ago, but Trump and his new administration clearly have not let them go. They haven't let go of any of his 2020 election conspiracies. And this time, there are no adults in the room to keep him from pursuing it. Remember that in his first administration, Trump wanted Georgia officials to find him the votes to say he won that election. And it was Georgia's Republican Secretary of State who stood up to him and said no. Now, Trump has seized boxes and boxes of ballots from Georgia, and who knows what this administration will claim to have found in them. In his first term, Trump wanted to seize voting machines from the 2020 election, and it was his own Attorney General, Bill Barr, who stopped him from doing it. Now the Trump administration has actually seized voting machines, and his Director of National Intelligence is already claiming they found some kind of significant risk to US Elections. Trump is trying to finish the job he started the final months of his first term. He is trying to reverse engineer proof that the most ludicrous debunked claims about a rigged election were true. And it's not at all just about looking backwards, although that would be good for his ego. He's laying the foundation to be able to undermine the next election. He's building a pretense to justify his own interference in our elections so that he and his party never have to suffer another election loss. So that, in his own words, it can't happen again.
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B
We can never let what happened in the 2020 election happen again.
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A
Joining me now is Senator Mark Warner. He's the Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, there is always so much to talk with you about. I'm so grateful you're here. The last time we spoke, it was about Fulton County. Now we're talking about Puerto Rico. And part. And you and I both know this isn't really about proving fraud in the 2020 elections. Given these theories have been debunked many, many times. And Puerto Rico, I should note, doesn't even vote in presidential elections. I just mentioned some of the explanations we've heard from the reporting. FBI officials saying it's about looking into Venezuela's intervention, DNI saying it's about voting machines. What do you think this investigation in Puerto Rico back in the spring was really about?
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B
I think it was about the obsession Donald Trump has about the fact that he got beat in 2020 and he doesn't want to get beat again, at least even though his name's on the ballot in 26. And I think this crowd is willing to try to intervene in our elections. The Director of National Intelligence has no business, no authority to look at these Puerto Rican voting machines. And they've already acknowledged there was no foreign interference. So that's a huge foul to start with. But we continue to hear more about what's happened in Georgia just very quickly. The White house has had four different stories in the last 36 hours. Originally, Gabbard said she got asked to go to Georgia because of the president asked. Then the press secretary said, yes, the president asked. Then the president said, no, he didn't ask her. And then they now saying it's Pam Bondi. But the fact of somebody's lying, but what makes it even worse, and I don't want to go way back in time, but it's almost Nixonian in terms of this kind of COVID up. The President, United States is not supposed to know about a search warrant before it's issued. So whoever was talking to Gabbard, especially, it was the president had no business. This was exactly the kind of malpractice that took Richard Nixon down. And all of the reforms that took place in the late 70s were trying to prevent this from happening again.
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A
I mean, to that point, that, of course, did take a number of people down around Nixon. Do you think that the actions of some of these officials who are working for Tulsi Gabbard, maybe even people who are in the FBI, could it be illegal what they're doing? Could they be held accountable for this?
- [14:53]
B
Well, first of all, why would the President of the United States know about a search warrant before it was issued, even issued? Why would the President of the United States talk to the direct FBI folks on the ground in Georgia? Why would they then not get their story straight about who asked Gabbard, who had no right or role to be in Georgia, to supervise this? Because if there was any evidence of foreign interference, she's also broken the law by not telling her oversight committees, the intelligence committees, that there was any of this foreign malign influence. And she, by the way, has frankly disabled and taken down much of the structure that was put up in the first Trump administration to make sure there wasn't election interference. So I've gone from like a year ago saying, no, they wouldn't really be this outrageous to now absolutely believing that Gabbard, who desperately seeks Trump's Favor will do anything, and that Trump will do anything, even to the state of trying to interfere in our elections and potentially interfere in the outcomes. The whole notion that he continues to talk about federalizing elections in certain key states, that is against the Constitution. So this is as chilling a time as anything I've seen.
- [16:12]
A
Let's talk about what they could actually do, because you spend a lot of time thinking about this. And one of the things that struck me is the statement from the office of the Director of National Intelligence threw into question what whether these voting machines in Puerto Rico could be used. And they took a number of them with a number of those machines with them as well. Do you think is this about them trying to claim certain voting machines that could be used, that are being used in other states? Maybe the brands or whatever it may be are not able to be trusted? Is that what this is about, sowing doubt in voting machines?
- [16:45]
B
I believe they're trying to sow doubt every way they can. Remember this was the same crowd that after 2020, somehow thought that Italian satellites sponsored by Iran or Venezuela was sending, you know, satellite beams into disrupting these machines makes absolutely no sense. Again, the Director of National Intelligence has no responsibility for the. The domestic security of our elections. That is the FBI. And the idea that you are going to somehow federalize elections is totally counter to everything that Republicans have historically advocated for. But I do believe that, that this is all potentially out there. And I think, again, I'm not switching subjects. It's all about what they could do. I hear a number of people saying, well, Senator, why are you concerned about ICE agents showing up at polling stations? Well, everybody's registered to vote. You know, there's just Americans. Well, baloney, because you could have families where some people are documented, some people are not. But also, we've now seen ICE start to use, using some of our technology companies, information about American citizens. So you go to your polling station and you have somebody come up and identify you, that's an ICE agent, and they found out that, you know, you may have had a parking ticket or what? We've already seen in Minnesota where a person who was trying to apply for the Global Entry Pass to get through TSA quicker, had their application turned down because that person had shown up and exercised their First Amendment right protesting. This whole mess of intimidation combined with trying to mess with the election system. And if local and state election officials don't say, this is not the way we run our elections, Lord knows where this could end up. And I'm afraid not only for the midterms in a state like ours, we're going to have a lot of primaries. We may even have a statewide referendum about redistricting. I could see these early elections this year as the trial run.
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A
Let me ask you, I mean, we just learnedwe obviously saw Fulton county and that raid happen on Friday. We're just learning about a raid that happened in Puerto Rico back in May. Are thereare you aware of or looking into any other incidents of Tulsi Gabbard or people in her office seizing other voting machines or using their resources in this way anywhere else in the country or we're all going to learn together at some point?
- [19:09]
B
Well, we're going to learn together. I don't believe my Republican colleagues. I don't think Tom Cotton knew about this seizing of election machines in Puerto Rico. It's so far beyond what her job is. This is just not, it's, it's bonkers. And the fact that they are not informing us. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Again, there's so much out there. There was a whistleblower complaint that I can't talk about the contents and much of it was redacted. But was the whistleblower brought the complaint in May. By law, Gabbard is supposed to turn this over to Congress within 21 days. We didn't even know the whistleblower was out there until November. And then it took the combined efforts of the Gang of Eight, including the speaker of the House and John Thune and others for us to get it. And then there's a whole controversy about who lied, about what rules had to apply and Gabbard pleading that she didn't know that she had a responsibility to turn over. Ignorance of the law is not a defense if you're in charge. So this is a mess on steroids. And the analogy I make to Nixon is because not only were the actions bad, but then you had this inept cover up efforts. And it's starting to feel like we're starting to see some of those signs. I'm just in a certain way happy we're seeing it now in February rather than in October and November.
- [20:34]
A
Senator Mark Warner, I think all of this is one of the biggest stories we'll all be covering this year. Thank you so much for being here and for continuing to ask all the questions on behalf of everybody watching too. Thanks again.
- [20:46]
B
Thank you, Jen.
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A
Okay. We are following some absolutely bonkers breaking news tonight. Donald Trump told Chuck Schumer he would release funding for a massive infrastructure project he has been holding up if Schumer agreed to support renaming dulles Airport in D.C. and Penn Station in New York after Trump. So I will release your funding if you agree to name an airport and a train station after me. I know it sounds like I'm joking. I promise you I'm not joking. Congressman Rajami Raskin is the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee and he joins me with his reaction next.
- [21:26]
B
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Donald Trump has always loved putting his name on things. It helps his fragile ego, I suppose. I mean, back in his apprentice days, he pasted his name on things he wanted to sell, like Trump ice water and Trump steaks. And now, as president, he slapped his name on all sorts of major institutions without really any concern for the law. The Trump US Institute of Peace, the Trump Kennedy Center. I could go on, but tonight we learned that he is so desperate to see his name on more things, he's basically resorting to extortion. I mean, Emma Snow just confirmed a report by Punchbowl News that Trump told Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer that he'd release billions of dollars in infrastructure funding that he's withheld from a major transportation project if Schumer promised to support the renaming of both New York's Penn Station and Washington's Dulles after Trump. Now Punchbowl also reports that sources say that Trump also wants Dulles Airport's code changed from IAD to wait for it, djt. But so far, Trump's appeal to Senator Schumer is definitely not working. A source close to Schumer told Punchbowl there's nothing to trade. The president stopped the funding and can restart the funding with a snap of his fingers. Joining me now to discuss all of this is Congressman Jamie Raskin. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. So many things to ask you about, as always. But I just gotta start with this mob like offer. I mean, I assume that you're gonna wanna look into this further. You've been looking into other naming efforts, but what's your reaction to this? Extortion is what I called it. But what do you make of it?
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B
Well, Congress appropriated the money through the Bipartisan Infrastructure act that we got done during the Biden administration. I think most of that money for the New York Tunnel comes from the capital gr and I think there was a railroad rehabilitation component. That's where the money came from. Donald Trump has no authority to hold it up, much less hold it up, because of his mania for having things named after himself. But we really entered the realm almost of fairytale, Jen. I mean, this is like King Midas, you know, who wanted everything that he touched to turn to gold. And then he discovered suddenly he couldn't eat his food because it was gold. He couldn't drink his wine because it was gold. He couldn't hug his daughter because she was now golden, too. Everything was golden. Donald Trump wants to turn everything to gold and name everything after him. It is a form of megalomania that is related to malignant narcissistic personality disorder and somebody needs to help the guy.
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A
Out, or maybe insecurity. If he has an airport named after him, he must be powerful. I mean, that's my other theory. Let me ask you while I have you, because I've been thinking about you as I've been reading and trying to digest all these stories and reporting about what Tulsi Gabbard and the Department of National Intelligence is up to. I mean, I just spoke with Mark Warner about the reporting around Tulsi Gabbard's investigation of voting machines into Puerto Rico. And although we just learned about that in the last 24 hours, it comes right after, of course, what we all saw happen in Fulton county and her and her hat and all of that happening there. What do you make of what she's doing? What she was doing, what her team, I should say, was doing in Puerto Rico and the resurgence they're trying to. To re up all of these conspiracy theories that were debunked back in 2020. What do you make of all that?
- [26:01]
B
Again, it's just surreal and nonsensical. At first. When I heard that they went to Puerto Rico to seize the machines and that Tulsi Gabbard was involved, I thought that maybe they were mistaking Puerto Rico for a foreign country because she, of course, is involved in collecting intelligence from foreign nations. Puerto Rico is of course, part of the United States. But then I learned that they thought, no, that Venezuela was trying to steal the American election by seizing the machines in Puerto Rico, which is of course patently absurd to anybody who understands American elections because the people of Puerto Rico, unfortunately cannot even vote for president of the United States. So what would Venezuela's seizure of the Puerto Rican machines do for them? So again, we're just in a realm of absolute fantasy and chaos.
- [26:52]
A
It is unquestionably looking at the Fulton county operations specifically, cuz there's more and more we're learning about that. There were all these kind of conflicting explanations of why Tulsi Gabbard was even there. They seem to be lying. They seem to be covering it up. It's very unclear on what's going on there, but it makes it even more shady. How do you, as you're thinking about powers you might be able to use on the Judiciary Committee if, say, Democrats were to win back the House? What do you want to know more there? What would you want to look into about what happened in Fulton County?
- [27:27]
B
Well, the people of Fulton county have sued. They're in federal district court to try to get their voting machines back so they can maintain the integrity both looking backwards and looking forwards to their elections. The Judiciary Committee can exercise our oversight power to make sure that the right to vote is not being impaired by all of these fly by night federal operations. I mean, remember, the state governments are the primary guarantors of the right of the people to vote and the guarantors of the electoral process. Article one, Section four says Congress can regulate if we need to. So does section five of the 14th amendment and the enforcement clause of the 15th amendment. We've done that like with the Voting Rights Act. But of course, Donald Trump and MAGA and the Roberts Court are doing everything they can to destroy the Voting Rights act and to strip federal protection. But somehow Donald Trump thinks that he should have the right to just helicopter in to any state in the country and remove people's ballots and the ballot boxes. They're attacking same day voter registration. They're attacking early voting. All of these things are within the power of the states. Unless Congress is going to act. You look in Article 1, Section 4, you'll notice the president is not mentioned anywhere there.
- [28:49]
A
That is true. And a reminder. Thank you always, as always, for the reminder. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
- [28:57]
B
You bet.
- [28:59]
A
Okay. Coming up, you might have heard Steve Bannon issue a warning that ICE is going to surround the polls in November. Well, today Caroline Levitt was asked about it and she didn't exactly rule that out. I'm going to ask former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson about that in just a moment. But first, as the Trump administration hunts around for fraudsters and people scamming tax taxpayers, at least people they deem to be so they may want to start by looking in the Oval Office. I'm going to explain when we come back.
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CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumbo Casino. So Donald Trump is ordering his subordinates to give him your money. And let me just show you what I mean. Scott Besson has two jobs. He's simultaneously serving as both Trump's treasury secretary and as the acting commissioner of the irs. Both jobs. That's how they do it in the Trump administration. That means that when Trump sued the IRS and the treasury last week for $10 billion, Trump was effectively asking Scott Bessen, his direct subordinate, to just give him that $10 billion. And today, Democratic Senator Reuben Gallego held Bessen's feet to the fire, asking him where exactly he would take that $10 billion from to give.
- [31:14]
B
Where would that $10 billion come from? Again, it would come from process wise. I'm not asking, like your opinion whether it's right or wrong. It would come from Treasury. It comes from treasury, which comes from the general fund, the treasury general account. So, taxpayers, yes, thank you.
- [31:35]
A
So, taxpayers, that's right. It is your money. Trump wants $10 billion of your money and he's just asking his subordinates to give it to him. I mean, today, Scott Besant passed the buck on this one to Attorney General Pam Bondi. There's a lot of bucks being passed to poor Pam Bondi saying that because the Department of Justice would be the defendant here, this was really more of a question for her. Now, set aside that historically, attorney generals have been expected to operate with some level of independence because Donald Trump shattered that norm quite some time ago. So it's fair to say that Bondi operates as Trump's direct subordinate, too. Trump is essentially her boss, or that's how he sees it. And he is telling her to pay him $10 billion of your money. And that's not just me saying that is the implication here. I mean, here's what Trump, in an interview with NBC News last night said when he was asked explicitly if he was going to tell Bessant and Bondi to pay.
- [32:37]
B
You're gonna tell them to pay you, though. You're the boss. Well, what I would do, tell them to pay me, but I'll give 100% of the money to charity. I don't want any of the money.
- [32:47]
A
What I would do is tell them to pay me. Thank you for saying it all out loud. So to hear Trump tell it, he is going to tell Scott Bessant and Pam Bonney to pay him $10 billion of your money. But you shouldn't worry about that because he is going to give all of that money to charity. Now, this is sort of a fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame me sort of scenario, because Donald Trump has been caught lying, saying he was going to donate to charity, and then not so many times that our incredible producers had to pick and choose which instances to highlight here tonight, because there are too many. Let me just show you a few. When Trump launched his 2016 presidential campaign, he claimed he had given more than $102 million to charity in the previous five years. His campaign released a 93 page list detailing all, all of those donations. But there was one problem, a big one. Turns out, not a single One of those donations was actually a personal gift of Trump's own money. The Washington Post. Yes, that one that was gutted just yesterday dug into Trump's finances at the time and found that in the 15 years prior to running for office, Trump had publicly promised to donate more than $8.5 million to one charity or another. The reality was that he had only donated about 2.8 million and all through his personal charity, the Trump Foundation. You know, the foundation he ultimately had to dissolve and pay a $2 million settlement over because he had misused the funds doing things like buying not one, not two, but three portraits of himself with foundation money. Who doesn't need three? Or using the charity's money to buy himself a signed Tim Tebow football helmet. Or the time he used the foundation money to make a donation to then Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. While Pam Bondi was actively considering whether to investigate fraud allegations into Trump University, I should note she ultimately decided not to pursue that case. And again, she is now the person Trump is asking to give him $10 billion of your money. But hey, if you don't trust that Trump will actually give that money to charity, last night he laid out a whole new justification for why he should have your money.
- [35:01]
B
$30 trillion debt, and we're going to take 10 billion out of the system. Well, I mean, you give it away anyway. They give away a lot of money. You're endorsed. Speaking about that, Minnesota and these other states, we have massive investigations going into fraud. You know, if we captured 50% of the fraud of this country right now, we would have better than a balanced budget.
- [35:26]
A
Don't worry about Trump taking that $10 billion. They're going to make up for it by catching so many fraudsters and balance the budget, too. That's what he said. That's the new line of logic here. Well, get this. Yesterday, government exec reported that the IRS has started pulling people from HR to process tax returns because Trump got rid of more than 20% of the IRS staff last year. And that does not sound like an agency that is going to catch a lot of fraud. Sounds like one that will miss a lot of fraud. And then there's a specific case Trump mentioned, the fraud investigation in Minnesota. Well, the Trump administration has said that that fraud investigation is the reason they surged federal immigration agents in Minnesota to begin with. This week, we got the news that the four prosecutors who led that fraud case for the Minnesota U.S. attorney's office, they all quit. Part of a wave of resignations that has followed the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. Sources inside the U.S. attorney's office told CBS News this week that the departures have left the office with as few as 17 assistant U.S. attorneys down from 70. And the Trump administration immigration crackdown isn't just making prosecutors leave. It is also overwhelming the prosecutors who stay with work. Last week, the top prosecutor in Minnesota, The Trump appointed U.S. attorney Daniel Rosen, said in a court filing that his short staffed office has been abandoning pressing and important priorities to manage the flood of immigration cases they are getting. That does not sound like an office that is going to catch a lot of fraud. So Trump is saying all his money will go to charity. He's saying he will stop so much fraud you won't even notice this money disappearing. He's telling you not to worry about how he is trying to pocket $10 billion of your money. To state the obvious, don't listen to him. He's kind of a fraudster. Okay. Coming up, the White House is refusing to rule out sending ICE agents to the polls this November. I'm going to ask former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson about that and and so much more Next. For anyone who thought the sole purpose of overpowering and massively over funding ICE was just to terrorize communities with large numbers of immigrants, which is bad and horrific enough, maybe think again, because just listen to Steve Bannon.
- [37:48]
B
We're going to have ICE surround the polls come November. We're not going to sit here and allow you to steal the country again. And you can, you can whine and cry and throw your toys out of the pram all you want, but we will never again allow an election to be stolen. Let's put you notice again. ICE is going to be around the polls in the 2026 midterm elections.
- [38:14]
A
And in case you thought that's just Steve Bannon spouting off about throwing toys out of prams and his fantasy about how Trump can mess with the elections. Take a listen to what Caroline Levitt said from the White House podium when she was asked about this today. Steve Bannon recently said, quote, we're going to have ICE around the polls come November. Is that something that the president is considering? That's not something I've ever heard the president consider. No. I can't guarantee to the American public that ICE will not be around polling locations or voting locations in November. I can't guarantee that an ICE agent won't be around a polling location in November. I mean, that's frankly a very silly hypothetical question. Is it a silly hypothetical question? I mean, that answers a lot of things, but it definitely wasn't a no. Joining me now to talk about that and a lot of what's going on is former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson. It's great to see you. Let me start with that. I mean, it seems crazy to me that the White House press secretary isn't able to simply say, no, there won't be masked ICE agents surrounding polling locations. But we heard what Steve Bannon said. We've seen kind of a number of advisors allude to this. You've actually run the department. How crazy is this notion of mass ICE agents surrounding polling locations and what can be done to stop it?
- [39:38]
B
Well, the Department of Homeland Security that I ran 10 years ago is very different from the DHs of today. 18 USC United States Code Section 592 prohibits the US military from showing up at American polling places except for voting themselves. And I suspect that somebody in Congress is looking at right now whether that law should be amended to include immigration enforcement officers because of this wild Steve Bannon idea. I can think of very, very little legitimate reasons why ICE in its official capacity would be at a polling place in the United States. You have to be a US Citizen to vote. You have to be registered to vote. You're not going to find the undocumented in any numbers, any appreciable numbers at a polling place. I'd rather see ICE ERO out looking for the worst of the worst in jails in large cities and in other places go after the worst of the worst, which is what they said they would do.
- [40:51]
A
It is certainly very different from when you were running the department. That is an understatement of the year. Let me ask you about something else. When I spoke with you last week, we talked about how kind of woefully inadequate. We've all watched this. The Trump administration's investigations into the killings of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy have been. And today Reuters is reporting that the DOJ unit responsible for prosecuting potential wrongdoing by law enforcement has lost two thirds of its prosecutors and is under order to scale back its investigations. It is significant even to read. As somebody I've never run a big legal department. You have run as at the Department of Defense and in the outside private sector. What is the impact of that kind of an exodus? And even if they wanted to do.
- [41:37]
B
The right thing, well, that exodus is reflective of what's happening at the Department of Justice at large. You look at the U.S. attorney's office there in Washington, D.C. for example, they've lost a number of highly experienced attorneys. And so this is something that's happening all around the country which undermines public safety in general, not just the ability to prosecute civil rights violations by federal law enforcement officers, but in general public safety. And I'm not surprised to see this. But it undermines, this is something that all Americans should be concerned about because the Department of Justice, federal prosecutors are there for reasons of public safety to keep us safe.
- [42:29]
A
We only have about a minute left. But let me just ask you about something I read this morning. Governor Abigail Spanberger has followed a number of other states that are considering kind of ending so called 287 agreements, which is something that is part of the agreement and the cooperation between ICE enforcement officials and local authorities. What is the impact of that? And is that, do you think that is a good decision by states that are doing this who are trying to restrict the power of ice?
- [42:59]
B
287 is in general a good idea for reasons of public safety and law enforcement. If you want to get at the worst of the worst, you're going to find the worst of the worst in our jails. Local law enforcement will encounter the worst of the worst undocumented. And so there needs to be partnerships between federal and local law enforcement to go after these people. This is what the Trump administration said they would do. Unfortunately, they're countering that by making ICE in these big cities toxic. No one wants to work with them. And you know, so in Democratic administrations like the one I was in, we spent years trying to rebuild these relationships for reasons of public safety.
- [43:49]
A
It may be that they need to halt these relationships so that it can be rebuilt, the organization can be rebuilt. I think that may be the thinking for some of them. Jeh Johnson, I always enjoy talking to you. Thank you so much for being here with us this evening. We have to sneak in a very quick break, but Lawrence has the great and favorite Andrew Weissman standing by always legal stuff to talk with him about. And we'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. This is a Monday.com ad the same Monday.com helping people worldwide getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The same Monday.com that your team will actually love using the same Monday.com with.
- [44:49]
B
An easy and intuitive setup.
- [44:51]
A
Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Yes, the same Monday.com.