← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump steps up effort to prevent truth from exposing his administration with new appointee
00:40:43
Jen Psaki points out how much of what we know about what the Trump administration is up to is due to leakers and whistleblowers on the inside exposing the truth about an administration where lying is the norm. Trump has been trying to silence truth tellers since his first day in office, and now he wants to put a loyalist, Paul Ingrassia, in charge of the Office of Special Counsel, the watchdog that deals with whistleblowers.
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- [00:00]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts, Amazon.
- [00:31]
Woody Harrelson
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- [01:01]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
So every single day now, it feels, at least to me, like someone from the Trump administration is absolutely lying to our faces, to everyone in the American public. I mean, here's a pretty stunning case in point. This is President Trump and Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem describing FEMA's response to the flooding in Texas. Just this weekend you had people there as fast as anybody's ever seen. FEMA went to an enhanced level immediately. But as soon as you signed the major disaster declaration, we were able to get them resources and dollars. Right away. We're cutting through the paperwork of the old FEMA streamlining it, much like your vision of how FEMA should operate, and it's been a much better response. Trump and Noem want the public to believe that this weekend FEMA responded as fast as anybody has ever seen and that they cut through the paperwork for a streamlined, faster response than ever. It's as if we can't check these things. But the thing is, we can. And the truth appears to be exactly pretty much the opposite. CNN reported just this morning that FEMA's response in Texas was actually slowed down, taking a full second 72 hours because of a bureaucratic paperwork process of Nome's own creation. Noam recently enacted a rule that makes it so every contract and grant over $100,000 requires personal sign off from her directly. Which I guess maybe sounds good on the surface, but the problem is on the ground. What it means, and we saw this in Texas, what it meant this weekend, is that while central Texas towns were submerged in rising waters, FEMA officials realized they couldn't preposition urban search and rescue crews like they normally would like they would in any scenario like this. A source told CNN that Texas requested aerial imagery from FEMA to aid in search and rescue, but that was also delayed because they needed Noem's personal approval. And another source told CNN that callers faced longer call times at disaster call centers as the agency awaited Noem's approval for a contract to bring in additional staff. Now, beyond the bureaucratic red tape that Noem put in place, which I don't even think is the most important part of this story, it's just how we got here, there is a much bigger, more fundamental question. Why didn't Secretary Noem approve those critical contracts immediately after the flooding began? I mean, where was she for three days? Why did she wait three days to act? That's the kind of failure of leadership that under normal circumstances, and we are not in normal circumstances, could end someone's career. But this, of course, is not normal circumstances. It's the Trump administration. And so this is how Noem responded to that reporting.
- [03:43]
Woody Harrelson
CNN has basically got a report accusing you of slowing the process. Would you like to respond to that?
- [03:49]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Well, there you go. Fake news. Cnn, again, is absolutely trash. I mean, it's like a knee jerk attack, the press response, even though when the facts and truth are very clear, she doesn't want you to trust the news, any of us. The thing is, it's not CNN making those allegations. The allegations which CNN reported on actually came from four officials inside of Noem's own agency. People who are risking their own careers to get the truth out to the public. If you were to only listen to Trump and his cabinet secretaries, you would think they were the greatest living leaders in the greatest era America has ever known, that every agency is more efficient and more productive than ever. That everything is just perpetually getting better all the time. And it is all because of Trump personally. We all obviously know that isn't the case, and we know it because people inside the government are brave enough to come forward with the truth. And I'm not just talking about fema. I mean, listen to how Trump and other officials describe the administration's priorities on immigration enforcement. Are you going after the worst of the worst or are you now arresting anyone who is here? We're doing the worst of the worst, always. These are the worst of the worst. The worst of the worst. The worst of the worst. The significant public safety threats.
- [05:05]
Cory Booker
We're laser focused on getting the worst.
- [05:08]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Of the worst out of this country. Do you think they have a messaging document that says the worst of the worst on the top of it cuz I do. But that was Trump and his attorney general and his Homeland Security secretary and his immigration czar and the spokesperson for dhs, all claiming in the same language that Trump's immigration enforcement agenda is focused specifically on rounding up the worst of the worst, the violent criminals, the public safety threats. Not only do we know statistically that the majority of people ICE has arrested since Trump took office do not have criminal records, but check out this new reporting from the Atlantic. ICE is now shelving major criminal investigations to prioritize civil immigration arrests. Grabbing asylum seekers at their courthouse hearings, handcuffing mothers as their US Citizen children cry, chasing day laborers through Home Depot parking lots. The agents that typically worked on rounding up the actual worst of the worst have been told to shift their focus to civil immigration enforcement, effectively relegating them to be junior partners in Trump's mass deportation campaign. That's what's actually happening. I mean, one former ICE official telling the Atlanta quote, their personnel are being picked off, the investigative squads, and there's only so many people to go around. There are national security and public safety threats that are not being addressed. It's a message we keep hearing over and over and over again. Again. The reason that we know that, the reason we know the Trump administration line about targeting the worst of the worst is not at all true, is because people inside the federal government, in this case current and former ICE agents and officers, were brave enough to tell the press. Those were anonymous sources, people probably justifiably afraid of losing their jobs for contradicting the Trump administration's line. But we've also seen this kind of bravery from people who have been publicly named as whistleblowers in some cases. Do you remember Emil Bovey? He is Trump's former personal criminal defense attorney turned Justice Department official that Trump has nominated to a lifetime appointment as a federal appeals court judge. Last month, a whistleblower, former Justice Department immigration attorney Erez Ruvini, alleged that Bovey directed Justice Department lawyers to be ready to tell the courts f you. Which is of course not f, but you know what I mean. If the courts ruled against them, literally telling Justice Department lawyers to defy court orders, Mr. Bovey, of course, denied those allegations. And then last month, he even denied them explicitly. Well, under oath before the Senate Judiciary.
- [07:36]
Woody Harrelson
Committee, I have never advised a Department.
- [07:40]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Of justice attorney to violate a court order. I did not suggest that there would be any need to consider ignoring court orders. At the point of that meeting, there were no court orders to discuss. In denying those allegations, Bovey is Asserting that this whistleblower, Erez Ruvaney, a career Justice Department immigration lawyer, lied. He's saying that the allegations are made up. But today we got receipts. The thing is, there are always receipts, and today we got them in this case. Today, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee released contemporaneous texts and emails provided by Rouvaney showing that he and a colleague discussed being directed to defy a court order all the way back in March, months before he went public with any of this. So in response to that new evidence, Trump Attorney General Pam Bondi tried to discredit the messenger. No kidding. No surprise there. Claiming that Rouvainy was just a disgruntled employee is how she described it. Who was asserting false claims to get his five minutes of fame. Whether it's Noem or Bondi or Trump himself, the Trump administration is pretty much hell bent on discrediting whistleblowers and anyone who is out there sharing information with the press and the public. And there is good reason for that, because the Trump administration has made lying the norm. People inside the government officials being brave enough to speak to the press is the only way we know what is actually happening inside the Trump administration. I mean, every example I've cited so far, the slow FEMA response in Texas, ICE supervisors directing their agents to go after non criminals rather than actual criminals, that new evidence that Emil Bovey directed DOJ lawyers to defy court orders. This is a guy up for a judicial, an appointment to be a judge. Those all came out in just the past 24 hours. Just the past 24 hours. And if we zoom out, if we look at what we have learned just in the past six months of Trump's new term. So much of it we only know because of public servants who spoke out, whether anonymously or through the whistleblower process or even in public. Without them, we wouldn't know what is really going on inside the administration. We wouldn't know that an assessment written by US Intelligence agencies contradicted Trump's justification for deporting immigrants to prison in El Salvador, or that Trump Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard fired the officials who wrote that assessment, or that her chief of staff pushed intelligence officials to rewrite that assessment to make it look better for Trump. We wouldn't know any of that without sources willing to speak out. We wouldn't know that the Pentagon nearly briefed Elon Musk, a private citizen with tons of business interests in China, on the US Military's plans should war ever break out with China. That very bad, horrible, conflictive, interesty idea of a briefing was reportedly then called off, presumably probably because it was reported in the press. Funny how that works. Without these public servants, we wouldn't know about all of the myriad of ways that Trump's mass firings and Elon Musk's doge were gutting entire agencies in the federal government. We wouldn't know their obsession with acquiring everybody's data. We wouldn't know about that. On a near daily basis, we are seeing an increasing number of small but significant acts of bravery to get the truth out there, which is why we've seen Trump and his cabinet repeatedly try to stamp that out. Officials across the administration are using polygraph tests. It's been reported to attempt to flush out even the smallest of leaks. And at the FBI, Director Kash Patel's reportedly using polygraph tests to not only mitigate unflattering press, but also to screen employees for loyalty. And it's not just going after individuals, but the agencies in place that are in place to protect whistleblowers. Back in February, Trump fired 18 inspectors general across the government. We all remember that. It was a long time ago, it seems like, but it did happen. Those are the independent watchdogs within government agencies who investigate allegations of impropriety within their departments, and they are critical to protecting whistleblowers. And now Trump is looking to take over another independent body that protects whistleblowers, the Office of Special Counsel, which is supposed to operate as a secure channel for federal employees to disclose potential wrongdoing without fear of retaliation. It's really no surprise, I guess, that Trump has nominated this guy to lead the office. Meet Paul angracia. He is 30 years old with barely a year of government experience under his belt. He currently works as the White House liaison for the Department of Homeland Security. And while that sounds important, it is not a senior job in any way, shape or form. If he sounds a little unqualified to run the 110 person office that for nearly 50 years has been the agency for whistleblowers and alleged ethics violations, well, hold onto your hat, because it gets much worse. Back in 2023, Ingracia worked with the legal team defending manosphere, influencer, accused rapist and human trafficker Andrew Tate. He posted this picture of the two of them on Instagram with the glowing caption, andrew Tate is an extraordinary human being. If that doesn't give you enough sense of this guy's worldview, this guy's judgment, where he stands, here is a sampling of his activity on Elon Musk's X last year, on the anniversary of September 11th in Gracia shared a video of conspiracy theorist Alex Jones claiming that 911 was an inside job. He also said things like, quote, being anti Trump is the biggest dog whistle in politics for anti white racism. Okay? And last year for Pride Month, Ingrassia posted, certain behaviors are righteous and should be encouraged. Others are wrong and should be stigmatized and condemned. As for his writing, Gracia has written his fair share of fawning pieces about Trump. He's also argued that January 6th rioters were politically persecuted and that white supremacist and anti Semite Nick Fuentes has been wrongly censored. I could go on. I literally could go on. There's much more, but I think you get a pretty solid sense of who this guy is. His politics are fringe, far right, his judgment, objectivity are very questionable, and he's fiercely loyal to Donald Trump. He is pretty much the last person on earth who should run the office that helps and protects federal employees who speak up against this administration and what it is doing which is so pivotal to have those protections. And based on everything we've seen Trump and his administration do, that appears to be completely by design. The only sliver of potential good news here, because we all need a little hope at all the moments, is that Ingrassia will require Senate confirmation. And while there's no date on the calendar just yet, and I don't have a huge amount of hope in a Republican Senate we do have. You never know. Sometimes people warrant a closer look and this guy does. And we do have a date for another highly controversial Trump nominee. According to multiple reports, the Senate is slated to vote next week on the final confirmation for Emil Bovey to a lifetime judicial appointment. That's a lot to digest. And joining me momentarily is a member of the Judiciary Committee who ran Bovey's confirmation hearing. Don't go anywhere. Senator Craig Booker joins me in just 90 seconds to talk about all of you. This.
- [15:09]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name. And we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman and Ed Helms and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts, building.
- [15:39]
Unknown (advertisement voice)
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- [16:10]
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- [17:17]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Joining me now, as promised, is Senator Cory Booker, Democrat of New Jersey and a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Let's just start with Emil Bovey, because there's such an influx of news every day, it's sometimes it's hard to digest all of it. But this one, I mean, it seems pretty clear this guy lied under oath at the confirmation hearing you were at. Is there any other way to see it?
- [17:38]
Woody Harrelson
I have looked at what whistleblower this particular whistleblower. I have to say that because we're getting indications that there might be other people who wanna come forward about Bovey. About Bovey. But this particular whistleblower shows to me a real contradiction between what he said under oath before us and what he said in private. And incongruency should be disqualifying, in my opinion.
- [18:01]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
It absolutely should be.
- [18:03]
Woody Harrelson
But you add to that the fact that he is saying those very words f the whole curse, f the court orders. You cannot be somebody in charge of the rule of law. If you are saying and have said in a position, screw the Judges and screw the judge's orders. That something we should not tolerate. But even worse than that, go back a number of years before that. He had one of the worst, what we call Brady violations. In other words, as a prosecutor, he had exculpatory evidence that he did not provide the defense counsel. It's one of the worst cases in the Southern District of New York. One of the most extreme Brady violations that they had seen in recent history. You've had people come forward. Again, these are not Democrats. These are line prosecutors. These are former people who've served even in the first Trump administration coming forward, talking about how reckless and dangerous and how much disregard he has for the rule of law. And that should. Should disqualify him, both with Republicans and Democrats.
- [19:02]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
It should. Let's go back, because the whistleblower claim it's significant to come forward as a whistleblower, and it means you feel strongly about the risk of the person you're identifying poses. But you said there's others about both.
- [19:14]
Woody Harrelson
Well, I met with a lawyer representing someone that I think has pretty damning evidence. But there's so much fear, which is part of the Trump cash. Patel. What they want to do is they want to intimidate and threaten people. Look at what they're doing now with Comey. This is all a way to weaponize the law. If you stand up against us, if you speak against us, we will bring the full course of the law. And even if we don't win, we're going to destroy your lives by causing you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills, reputational damages. We'll send a Twitter hoard against you. And by the way, if you do do what we want you to do, we'll pardon you from some of the worst crimes, like beating police officers within an inch of their lives.
- [19:56]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Is this other whistleblower or whistleblower? Is it whistleblower or whistleblower?
- [19:59]
Woody Harrelson
I don't want to go too far on that.
- [20:00]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Okay, but is it the same details or different details about things Bovey has said?
- [20:06]
Woody Harrelson
Yes, I think this is a person who. His testimony is in question, and people heard his public testimony and now are saying, wait a minute, I have again, receipts to show that this is not what he said, this is not what he did, really casting a shadow over his testimony. And we're trying to give people, not just even in this case, but this is the Trump administration writ large. We're trying to give people confidence that if they come forward, we will do everything we can to protect them.
- [20:36]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
That is a hard argument to make right now, given they are strategically trying to dismantle. And I just talked a bit about this, right. There are whistleblower protections in government, but it seems the Trump administration is strategically trying to dismantle, dismantle them. And I say that so people are aware, not to scare anyone. What do you make of this nomination of Paul and Gracia, who I just talked about? I know you're familiar with that is a key role where whistleblowers within government would typically go to that person.
- [21:02]
Woody Harrelson
Yes. I mean, Trump is hiring people based not upon their qualifications, not upon their past wrongs that they've done. He wants loyalty and fierce loyalty. And so we're seeing people come before us that are not just unqualified, but that are dangerous to the protections, not of just our federal employees, but dangerous to the public at large. And when you see who he's had, even in his cabinet positions, somebody like the Secretary of Defense, people that were involved in setting out and signal chains, war plans, we're seeing people that are making Americans less safe, less secure, and frankly, putting people in a situation where the very things we want those government agencies or those positions to do, they're not going to be doing.
- [21:51]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
On Bovey, you know your committee very well. You're also not a naive person in any way, shape or form. This should all be disqualifying. The next step is in a week from today. Do you think there's any chance that this, the fact that he clearly, I think, lied under oath could pull any Republicans to not vote for him and give any hope of that?
- [22:10]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, I definitely have hope. We saw the ability to stop a few of the most egregious judges during Trump's first administration. Now, the consequences for Republicans that step out of line, I mean, here's a president right now saying, if you do not kill Mr. Rogers and Sesame street, if you don't go after the corporation of Public Watch custody, I will run a primary against you. So we're seeing now that they are ready to go after their own if they step out of the line, even if it's a justifiable reason, like saying, again, Hegseth is not qualified. But there are a number of Republicans we're going to go to who have said publicly that there are certain things they won't tolerate, like, you know, perjuring yourself potentially before the United States Senate.
- [22:49]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
This is a clear example of that. It's a test of it. Let me ask you, I mean, you are no stranger. Trump attacked you today, I believe, of being of Trump and people from the administration going after you. You're an elected office. You accept that. I know. What do you say to people? What is your message to whistleblowers or people whose stories are so important to tell about why they should do it now and what impact it could have?
- [23:14]
Woody Harrelson
Stand up and fight. We celebrate those heroes, whether it's Ruby Bridges or people in the civil rights movement who stood before Bull Connor. We are a nation. That is where it is because of the courage of people to stand when it was not convenient to do so, to stand when the stakes were high. This is a moment in American history where people are going to know, where did you stand? And so I'm going to continue to fight. I don't care if this president calls me out every day, mean, tweets me, threatens me. We know. I've had open conversations with senators I never thought I would have because we saw what they've done with a congressperson, My congresswoman, Monica McIver, arresting her, My mayor. They've arrested, they're picking off, it seems, people that live in Newark that are in elected positions. But I don't care. Throw me in jail. Do what you have to do. I'm going to continue to stand up what's right. And I'm hoping that when one person stands up and calls us out, it ignites the courage of another person and another person and another person. We have to at a time that our fundamental rights and freedoms, that the very democracy that we, that we know is precious is under attack by this president. We've got to have more people willing to stand up and fight and take him on.
- [24:32]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
I will say. You don't even have to say it. I'll say it. The fact that you just had a massive, record breaking fundraising haul this past quarter should tell anybody out there running for office that standing up and not being fearful is something the public is looking for.
- [24:45]
Woody Harrelson
You want to show they're raising billions of dollars on that side. I want to show folks that when you stand up and please go to corybooker.com and contribute to us, it not only helps me, but helps me help other candidates that are willing to fight that may not have as much attention. And so we're going to do everything that we keep going. I hope folks will continue to support me.
- [25:04]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Senator Booker, always love talking to you. Thank you so much for being here.
- [25:06]
Woody Harrelson
Thank you very much.
- [25:07]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Okay, coming up, we're going to talk about a few more other things on this show. A Gen Z content creator and activist is making some big, surprising waves in Arizona's Democratic primary race. She joins me later this hour. But first, the job of managing an emergency response to a natural disaster is already a difficult one. We've talked about it a little bit. It's always a difficult one. Enter conspiracy theorists now lobbing wild and false claims about what caused the deadly floods in Texas. And some mag officials and lawmakers are adding fuel to the fire, which makes it very difficult for people on the ground. We'll talk about all of that right after a very quick break.
- [25:45]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your Name and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts, building.
- [26:15]
Unknown (advertisement voice)
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- [26:46]
You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [27:50]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
We are not Even a week out from the deadly flooding in Texas that killed at least 120 people with 173 still missing. And as first responders shift their efforts from rescue to recovery, which could be months, the country is now dealing with another problem. Conspiracy theories. As Wired magazine reports, within hours of the tragedy happening, conspiracy conspiracy theorists, right wing influencers and lawmakers were pushing wild claims on social media that the floods were somehow geoengineered. In Oklahoma, far right extremists took credit for damaging a local news station's weather radar, falsely claiming that the technology used to track weather events was actually some kind of weather weapon was their claim. Conspiracy theorists have also pointed the finger at an emerging new technology called cloud seeding, where scientists see basically try to draw small amounts of rain out of clouds to help deal with droughts. There is zero, zero evidence that cloud seeding had anything to do with the Texas floods, and scientists emphasize that this relatively young technology simply cannot produce the kind of rainfall that caused Texas flooding. But nevertheless, one cloud seeding company says it has already received more than 100 explicit death threats since the deadly flooding in Texas. And now MAGA politicians are amplifying those conspiracies. Georgia congresswoman and noted weather conspiracy theorist you know the one Marjorie Taylor Greene has fanned the flames by introducing a bill to ban geoengineering. And Tennessee Republican Congressman Tim Burchett has thrown his support behind the effort. But it's not just far right members of Congress. Today, Trump's EPA administrator Lee Zeldin posted this nod to consist of conspiracy theorists online.
- [29:34]
Janet Napolitano
Concerned Americans have urgent and important questions about geoengineering. For years, people who asked questions in good faith were dismissed, even vilified by the media and their own government. Instead of simply dismissing these questions and concerns as baseless conspiracies, we're meeting them head on. Prior to now, EPA has never been this proactive to raise awareness about concerns with geoengineering and to stop this activity from being scaled up.
- [30:10]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Now, what EPA Administrator Zeldin was supposed to be announcing in that video was an EPA fact sheet debunking conspiracies about geoengineering. But instead, he spent the entire video legitimizing the concerns of conspiracy conspiracy theorists who are vandalizing weather towers and sending death threats. In fact, the video was so misleading, he even managed to fool federal Trump cabinet member and conspiracy theorist RFK Jr. Who replied to the video on X saying this, I'm so proud of my friend Lee Zeldin and President Donald Trump for their commitment to finally shatter the deep state omerta regarding the diabolical mass poisoning of our people. Nothing like a few conspiracy theorists in a presidential cabinet just out there amplifying each other's crazy theories every day. That's where we are. And that kind of deeply irresponsible messaging is just the tip of the iceberg here. Because at almost every level, the Trump administration's response to this tragedy has been its own man made disaster. I mean, consider Trump's acting FEMA administrator David Richardson, who hasn't been seen in public since this flooding took place. In fact, he hasn't been seen for months. As EE News reports today, since his appointment by Trump on May 8, Richardson has shunned all publicity, making no public appearances or statements. His FEMA biography page has no photograph. Richardson personally backed out of a telephone meeting he was scheduled to attend in late June with leaders of the nation's major Emergency Management Association. Seems like one he should have attended. We haven't seen anything out of him, said one leader of Richardson. Then there's the Trump Cabinet secretary who oversees fema, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. As I mentioned before, CNN reports that Noem significantly delayed FEMA's response. At the same time, Talking Points Memo reports that Noem canceled a $3 million grant for improving communications between national and local authorities during natural disasters. And all of this is to say nothing of Trump's plans to get rid of FEMA entirely, leaving the country with no federal response to natural disasters. This is not how a functioning government responds to crises or prepares to respond to crises, that's for sure. In just a moment, I'm going to talk with someone who has real experience dealing with these kinds of disasters from many different angles. Former Homeland Security Secretary, former Governor of Arizona Janet Napolitano joins me here next. Joining me now is the former secretary of Homeland Security under President Obama and the former governor of Arizona, Janet Napoleon Napolitano. I'm so grateful you could be here because I think responding to federal disasters and understanding them, you have a very unique perspective, having been in the federal government and also a governor who's dealt with these disasters. So I just want to go back to some of the reporting I mentioned a moment ago which said that nome didn't authorize FEMA's deployment of urban search and rescue teams until Monday, more than 72 hours after the flooding began. Now I remember from my time in government, these requests typically move forward, sometimes within a day, sometimes it took till the next morning. But how out of norm is that length of time For a disaster like this.
- [33:25]
Janet Napolitano
Well, it seems abnormally long. I mean, when you have a disaster, excuse me, like this, you have the ability to surge resources if you're properly prepared for them. And speed really does matter, particularly in that initial 72 hours after something like a flash flood, or it could have been an earthquake or it could have been a landfall hurricane. And so that delay is regrettable. And then there will be lots of questions asked about the disaster response here, both from the federal level, the county level, state level, et cetera, et cetera. But there certainly are some changes that have been made in FEMA under the president administration that seem to have slowed things down.
- [34:18]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
There's no, and just to be clear, so people understand launching these resources, you have to meet and discuss them, which you typically would do right away. But then you're really signing a document and getting it signed off. It's not typically days of meetings. It's just it can be a rapid process to get these resources out, right?
- [34:35]
Janet Napolitano
Oh, for sure. And actually FEMA actually tries to pre position manpower and equipment near a disaster zone so that as soon as the actual physical disaster passes, they're ready to go in.
- [34:52]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Let me ask you, because you just referenced some of the changes made and Trump has said publicly that he wants to get rid of fema, that he wants to put all of the response to the states. The states are always in the lead, but it's the federal government and all these resources that is supporting them and backing them up. We've talked about this a bit on the show, but help us understand from all of your perspectives what the impact of that would be.
- [35:17]
Janet Napolitano
Well, FEMA is not designed to be the first responder. That is the responsibility of the locality, the state. FEMA is designed to come in if the resources of the locality or the state are overwhelmed and also to help backfill funding for states and localities that have had to expend money to respond to a disaster. I think actually the state of Texas has been one of the biggest recipients of FEMA funds over the last decade to help pay for the disaster response capacities that they have, which are quite extensive.
- [35:57]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Let me ask you about something I just talked a bit about, which is the spread of conspiracy theories. There are a lot of them spreading right now about geoengineering and cloud seeding. And all of this can be very damaging to response efforts, can be confusing for the public. What is the impact or the effect of this mass spreading of these conspiracy theories as you see it?
- [36:20]
Janet Napolitano
Well, it's not healthy. Look, we're still in body recovery mode. I mean, this was a terrible tragedy. And my heart goes out to the families of all the victims and then all the survivors looking at what they have of them. I mean, this is a very big human tragedy and we should never lose sight of that. But now piled on top of that, even, even while they're still going through the river and trying to find people who did not survive that have this kind of gunk, you know, all over social media. It's just not healthy. What we should be doing is come to get coming together both as a state but a as country saying we are the United States of America. We are going to put our best foot forward and do everything we can for these people.
- [37:09]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Secretary Napolitano, I am so grateful. Thank you for being here. We're all trying to make sense of this and what needed and what happened. It's going to take some time to learn all that. But I appreciate you joining us.
- [37:18]
Janet Napolitano
Thank you.
- [37:20]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
So when we come back, we're going to talk about a Democratic primary election in a deep blue district that is starting to get a lot of national attention. If it will be a bellwether for generational change in the Democratic Party, we'll see. It remains to be seen, but we're going to meet a candidate who is running to be the future of the party. She would be the youngest member of Congress. We're going to talk to her after a quick break. Over the past few months, there has been a lot of talk and there will be more about how Democrats should operate in the Trump era and what the future of the party looks like now. The next primary test for the Democratic Party will take place in Arizona next Tuesday. Democrats in the 7th Congressional District will vote on who they want to fill the seat of the late Raul Grijalva, who passed away just last March. Grijalva's daughter Adelita is considered to be the frontrunner. She has received endorsements from Democratic figures across the political spectrum, including Arizona Senators Ruben Gallego and Mark Kelly, as well as progressive leaders like Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. But Grijalva is not alone in this primary. Four other Democrats are vying for this seat, including former Arizona state Rep. Daniel Hernandez. I'm sorry. Deja Fox, a 25 year old activist who has recently gained some momentum in this race, likely because of viral videos like this.
- [38:38]
Cory Booker
One question, why not me? Is the question I had to ask. It's the question we should all be asking when there's a 34 count convicted felon in, in the White House when billionaires are playing politicians. I didn't inherit a donor list. I don't have a legacy, last name or big money behind me. I have you. And so I'm asking, folks, are we going to do things differently?
- [39:01]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Joining me now is Deja Fox, candidate in next week's special election for Arizona's 7th congressional district. It's great to see you and I know you've had some momentum lately, so that's exciting. I want to talk to you about all of that. So the district you're running for is deeply blue for people who are just learning about it and starting to pay attention. A Republican has never won it. Grijalava was the champion of a lot of progressive causes. His daughter, your opponent, promises to do the same. So tell me, tell everybody watching, why did you decide to run and what makes you and your platform and campaign different from your opponents? You are younger, but what else?
- [39:38]
Cory Booker
This race is personal for me. I wasn't born on that path to Congress. Instead, I was raised by a single mom in Tucson and I grew up relying on food stamps, Medicaid and Section 8 housing. It is everything that Republicans are trying to cut in real time. I have lived the policies they debate in D.C. it's what sets me apart from my opponent and so many of the other folks who are voting on these issues right now. And you know, it's true. I'm running against the daughter of the former congressman and she inherited things like decades of DC Connections, a legacy last name and a donor list. But we are running to change politics as usual and now we're neck and neck. I filed to run in April. I was alone in my bedroom without money or staff. Just the belief that this moment really calls for something different. And since then, to give you a snapshot of the race, we have raised over $900,000 from more than 28,000 people. We have an average contribution of less than 28 bucks. That means it's families like mine getting into this race with us. And we have surged 25 points in just over a month. We've closed the gap. This is now a single digit race within the margin of victory. And the consequences couldn't be bigger. We can replace one of the oldest members of Congress with the youngest and send a really loud and clear message that young working class people are winners. And I think about the ways that this would have been meant something to me as a young woman, 16 years old, working at the gas station, experiencing homelessness and needing a fighter. And I'm really proud to say that I sit here today the fighter she deserved.
- [41:22]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
I'm sure many people are looking at you thinking, wow, maybe I could run. And that's a pretty cool thing. No matter what happens. Let me ask you because one of the arguments that is made by some people who have endorsed one of your opponents is that this is a district that is 60% Hispanic and that continuing the representation by somebody who comes from the same community is important. What do you say to that?
- [41:48]
Cory Booker
I was born and raised in this community and my mom worked every odd job you could imagine. She cleaned houses, she delivered flowers. She worked at a post office. You know, I didn't inherit that donor list or legacy last name. It's the kind of advantage that most of us will never have. It's a different kind of representation. And in fact, Arizona's 7th congressional district is one of the youngest congressional districts in Arizona. It's also a largely working class district. It's the kind of people who know what it means to do everything you can to just get by. And it's why we're surging ahead in the polls, because we are connecting good common sense policy, the idea that you deserve to do more than just get by, you deserve a shot at getting ahead, that things like affordable housing like Medicare for all and raising the minimum wage aren't just theoretical for me. They're not just talking points. They're the kind of things I have lived. And that's so much more the case for our constituents. And so I think we need to stretch a little here in the ways we think about what it means to fulfill the job title of representative. I'll also point out that one in five Americans are my generation, Gen Z. And as it stands, we have a single member of Congress representing our entire generation. And so this race is for my generation and everyone who's been told to wait their turn while the world is burning. This is our campaign. And if you're with us, I want you to join us@dejafox.com to learn more about our story, where we fall in the policies and how you could be a part of it.
- [43:28]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Well, Deja Fox, I don't know what's going to happen next Tuesday, but I hope more people from your generation watch you and you're talking about Maxwell Frost, I think, and see that they could put their head in the ring, too. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.
- [43:40]
Cory Booker
Thank you for joining us.
- [43:42]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Absolutely. And when we come back in picking the next head of NASA, Donald Trump boldly goes where no man has gone before. All I explain after a very short break. Part of the fallout, just a little part of Elon Musk's big fight with Donald Trump is that Musk lost custody of NASA in the divorce. Musk's choice to run the space agency had been on track for confirmation when Trump suddenly yanked his nomination about six weeks ago. And confirming his successor, who has yet to be nominated, is expected to take several months. So last night, Trump decided to fill the job for now on an acting basis with this guy.
- [44:25]
Janet Napolitano
This is the true story of five.
- [44:27]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Ex Real Worlders picked for the ride of their lives. Yes, that is Trump's Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy. Real World road rules, whatever he was in all of them, Sean. His most relevant experience before he was tapped for a job overseeing the safety of America's transportation infrastructure was traveling around the world in an RV for a reality television show back in the 90s. So does Secretary Duffy have more relevant qualifications for his new side hustle? Of course he does. From his background in lumberjack sports. Did you know about that? Specifically in the art of speed climbing?
- [45:03]
Cory Booker
His name is Sean Duffy, but the name of his game is speed.
- [45:09]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
You're cranking at, you know, I don't.
- [45:11]
Woody Harrelson
Know if you're, you're going 40 miles.
- [45:12]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
An hour or so, you know, and your legs are popping in the tree and bouncing out. It's. I mean, it's completely wild.
- [45:17]
Cory Booker
For Sean Duffy, the sky's the limit anyway you slice it.
- [45:23]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
The sky is now apparently the limit for Sean Duffy, who is a speed climber in more ways than one. Space is in good hands, guys. Nothing to worry about here. All the best people. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram, and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington, and we'll see you next week. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here, if you haven't heard, I have a podcast.
- [45:51]
Woody Harrelson
That'S called Literally with Rob Lowe.
- [45:53]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling.
- [45:59]
Woody Harrelson
Up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi.
- [46:08]
Unknown (possibly a political commentator or journalist)
Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. They're new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.