Trump struggles to process blame for election 'thumping'

Summary

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The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: "Trump struggles to process blame for election 'thumping'"
Date: November 6, 2025 | Host: Jen Psaki | MSNBC

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OVERVIEW

This episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki" dissects a historic night of Democratic victories nationwide, highlighting what the outcomes signal for both parties—especially in the wake of a "thumping" for Republicans. Jen Psaki hosts in-depth conversations with key newsmakers: Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, New Jersey Governor-elect Mikie Sherrill, and Senator Chris Murphy. The episode captures the mood of renewed Democratic momentum and explores Republican reactions, with a particular focus on former President Donald Trump's public efforts to deflect blame.

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MAIN THEME

The episode’s theme is to analyze the sweeping Democratic wins in off-year elections, unpack the implications for both parties, and scrutinize attempts—most notably by Donald Trump—to spin or deflect responsibility for a significant Republican defeat.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Democratic Wave Across the Nation

(00:49–07:34)

• Jen Psaki opens with a rundown of surprising Democratic victories in states and districts where Republicans had reason for optimism:
  • Virginia: Abigail Spanberger wins the governorship by 15 points (“biggest margin of any Democrat seeking that office in the last 60 years”), Ghazala Hashmi becomes lieutenant governor by 11 points, and Jay Jones wins Attorney General despite a scandal.
  • New Jersey: Mikie Sherrill wins the governor’s race by 13 points and flips counties Trump carried in 2024: “Sherrill improved upon Kamala Harris’ margin in every single one of the state’s 21 counties.”
  • New York: Zoran Mamdani beats Trump-backed Andrew Cuomo by 9 points, powered by youth turnout and small-dollar donors, despite heavy Super PAC spending against him.
  • State Legislatures and Ballot Initiatives: Democrats gain control in Virginia’s statehouse (first time in nearly 40 years), expand majorities in NJ, flip seats in Mississippi, and win significant referenda in places like California and Maine. In Georgia, Democrats flipped seats on the Public Service Commission.
  • Quote—Jen Psaki:

    “It was one of the best nights Democrats have had in a very, very long time. Which kind of begs the question, if you're a member of Donald Trump's Republican Party, how do you spin what everyone knows was an absolute thumping of your party?” (06:04)

2. GOP Reaction and Trump’s Deflection

(06:44–07:47)

• House Speaker Mike Johnson downplays Democratic wins, insisting it’s just “blue states voting blue,” ignoring Democratic breakthroughs in red and swing areas.

• Donald Trump blames the loss on the government shutdown and not being on the ballot:

  • Quote—Donald Trump:

    “If you read the pulses, the shutdown was a big factor. Negative for the Republicans, and that was a big factor. And they say that I wasn’t on the ballot was the biggest factor, but I don’t know about that.” (07:34)

• Jen rebuffs Trump’s narrative by citing exit polls showing 40% of voters in Virginia and New Jersey turned out specifically to oppose Trump.

3. Analysis: Why Did Democrats Win?

(07:47–09:54)

• Campaigns focused on kitchen-table issues: affordability, cost of living, government shutdown.
• Backlash against Trump’s “chaos,” abuses, and attempts to undermine democracy spurred turnout even in an off-year.
• Emphasis that “politics is supposed to be about joy, about believing in something, about being part of a bigger community.” (08:36)

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INTERVIEW: Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro

(11:32–22:26)

a) Overall Results and Voter Message

(11:32–13:05)

• Josh Shapiro:

  “The American people sent two very clear messages…First, they voted for candidates that were there to solve their problems…Second, they sent a clear message to Donald Trump that they don’t want the chaos and they’re sick and tired of Donald Trump raising their prices and reducing their fundamental freedoms.” (12:22)

• Shapiro breaks down how Democrats flipped key swing counties that Trump won in 2024, crediting “smart, discerning” voters.

b) Trump’s Response and Rule of Law

(13:05–15:38)

• Shapiro notes Trump spent the day “ranting on social media” and ignoring reality.
• Points out that even in counties Trump won, Democrats “rejected his handpicked candidates.”
• On the Pennsylvania Supreme Court win:

  "Our rule of law matters. If we want to protect our democracy, we need judges who...act with integrity and respect the rule of law. Something Donald Trump doesn't understand." (15:02)

c) Looking Ahead—Democracy at Stake

(16:01–17:25)

• Expresses deep concern over Trump acting “even more unleashed than he was back then,” and surrounding himself with “sycophants.”
• Reminds listeners he went to court against Trump 43 times after the 2020 election and won every time.

d) Democratic Strategies and Party Future

(18:19–22:15)

• Shapiro highlights the unifying “through line” in winning Democratic campaigns: addressing voters’ immediate needs, lowering costs, and defending the rule of law.
• On Zoran Mamdani’s win, after earlier disagreements about his stance on anti-Semitism:

  “To Mamdani’s credit…he picked up the phone and called me, and we had a very long and honest conversation…I give him credit for this, he met people where they were. He listened to what mattered most to them, and he pledged to make change.” (20:27)

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INTERVIEW: Governor-Elect Mikie Sherrill (New Jersey)

(24:11–33:40)

a) Landslide Victory Analysis

(24:11–25:45)

• Sherrill reflects on not just winning but outperforming expectations in every New Jersey county.

• Dramatic gains with Latino and Black voters, including a 22-point swing in Hudson and 18 points in Passaic.

• Quote—Mikie Sherrill:

  “There was a 22 point swing to the left in Hudson, an 18 point swing in Passaic County…We also saw…the working class suburbs coming out strong, a traditional Republican stronghold, Morris County, I just won…since Watergate.” (25:45)

b) Key to Success: Focus on Costs

(26:06–28:47)

• Sherrill attributes her success to relentlessly focusing on bread-and-butter issues—cost of living, groceries, health care, housing—“front and center in people's minds.”

• She warns against distraction by wedge issues and pressures to prioritize topics like immigration over daily economic struggles.

• Quote:

  "If it's keeping you up at night, as your governor, it's going to keep me up at night." (28:47)

c) Democratic Party’s Future

(29:11–30:58)

• On “who is the future of the Democratic Party?” Sherrill dismisses the notion of a single archetype:

  “There’s lots of people who are the future of the party. That’s the whole point.”

  • Emphasizes local focus and that “there is no one-size-fits-all”—contrasting the Democratic Party’s diversity with the “one person” rule in the GOP (Trump).

d) Fighting Trump’s Punishment—Gateway Tunnel

(30:58–32:41)

• Plans to fight Trump’s cancellation of the major Gateway Tunnel infrastructure project, emphasizing economic impact and job creation.
• Sherrill is preparing to “make a big pitch for how this area of the country can help get our economy back on its feet.”
• She has not yet spoken to Trump but expects the tunnel to be “front and center” when she does.

e) Personal Reflections

(33:09–33:40)

• Shares a behind-the-scenes anecdote about the energetic governor-elect text chain among herself, Abigail Spanberger (VA), and her friends/colleagues.

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INTERVIEW: Senator Chris Murphy (Connecticut)

(38:45–44:41)

a) Shutdown Fallout and Democratic Backbone

(38:45–41:07)

• Murphy underscores that the shutdown and the healthcare premium hikes are clearly tied to Trump, stating:

  “All he has to do is sit down and negotiate for a couple hours and the shutdown could be over…We’re just saying don’t raise premiums on 22 million Americans.” (39:13)

• He cautions against Democrats caving after a wave of electoral wins for “finally standing up and fighting for our values.”

b) The Moral & Political Stakes

(41:07–42:32)

• Murphy shares a stark personal story from a constituent to highlight the shutdown's real-world impacts:

  “Who is going to lose her insurance and is going to have to decide whether she or her husband gets health care. They both have very complicated illnesses. They are deciding which one of them is going to survive to be able to take care of their four kids.” (41:48)

• He frames the choice as a false and painful tradeoff imposed by Republicans: “That’s a false choice. But the voters told us on Tuesday night that they want us to keep this fight up…”

c) Are Republicans Waking Up?

(43:02–44:22)

• Murphy notes Trump’s attempts to “blow up the Senate rules” were met with a “somewhat chilly reaction,” possibly signalling cracks in GOP unity.
• He argues Democrats are offering Republicans a political lifeline: “If I were a political advisor to Republicans, I’d tell them, cut this deal with Democrats, get the government open and operating and save people's health care…” (43:38)

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NOTABLE QUOTES

• Jen Psaki:

  “It was a whirlwind of wins…Democrats won because of candidates who focused relentlessly on the issues that matter…They won because of a rising anger and outrage at the abuses of Donald Trump.” (09:00)

• Josh Shapiro:

  “Voters are smart, they’re discerning. And what they realize is they don’t like what Donald Trump is doing every day. This chaos he injects…it’s making us worse off.” (13:26)

• Mikie Sherrill:

  “The difference here is…the Republican Party, there is only one person that decides how this goes. And by the way, that person is really taking an economy that was...expanding…to now where college kids are worried about their job opportunities, where costs are going up everywhere…” (29:49)

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• Recap of Democratic Victories: 00:49–07:34
• GOP Blame and Trump’s Comments: 06:44–07:47
• Analysis of Democratic Strategy: 07:47–09:54
• Interview: Governor Josh Shapiro: 11:32–22:26
• Interview: Governor-elect Mikie Sherrill: 24:11–33:40
• Interview: Senator Chris Murphy: 38:45–44:41

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MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• Jen Psaki’s breakdown of exit polls showing how many voters turned out explicitly to oppose Trump (07:47)
• Josh Shapiro recounting going to court 43 times against Trump—and winning every case (16:01)
• Mikie Sherrill’s anecdote about the all-woman governor-elect text chain on election night (33:09)
• Senator Murphy’s moral framing of Democrats’ government shutdown stance—tying it to real families’ daily choices (41:48)

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CONCLUSION

This episode captures a palpable shift in political energy after Democrats’ across-the-board successes. Psaki and her guests underscore a central lesson: focused, local campaigning on the economic issues that matter most to families wins votes, even in unlikely places. The episode pulls back the curtain on Republican attempts to deflect blame, especially by Donald Trump, while highlighting the vulnerabilities now facing the GOP. The interviews drive home that a coalition-based, community-oriented Democratic Party focus—not a single ideological “future”—is powering a new era of politics as the battle lines shift toward 2026.

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Transcript

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The app Download Today. Last night felt like a huge shot in the arm, at least to me, probably to you at home as well. And we have got a huge show tonight. New Jersey's Governor elect, Mikey Sherrill, who also probably didn't get a lot of sleep last night, is going to join me here in just a moment, still fresh off her double digit victory last night. And Pennsylvania's Governor Josh Shapiro is going to join me here for his reaction to his party's big wins last night, including in his home state of Pennsylvania. I'll also talk with him about what lies ahead for Democrats as they build on their momentum. Before we get to any of that, I just wanted to take a minute just to take stock of everything that just happened because it was kind of a whirlwind of wins and even when I went to be, we didn't know all of this. Now in Virginia, Democrat Abigail Spanberger won the race for governor by 15 points, which is the biggest margin of any Democrat seeking that office in the last 60 years. Also in Virginia, Democrat Ghazala Hashmi won the race for lieutenant governor by 11 points, which is the biggest margin for any candidate in that race in over a decade. And even Virginia Democrat Jay Jones won his race for attorney general now despite a massively problematic texting scandal that threatened to derail his candidacy, with which that, I mean that really tells you just how much Virginia voters wanted to send a message in this election. They also won back more than a dozen state seats in the state legislature, which is huge because that's going to be a very big deal when it comes to trying to do redistricting, which is something they're very focused on in that state. It's giving them their biggest majority in the state legislature in quite some time and actually nearly 40 years. And it's going to keep them with the ability to do that.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Now.

[Host Jen]

That's just one state. And there was much more. Much, much more. There was also new jers heading into election night. The New Jersey governor's race was, I mean, it was supposed to be a nail biter after Trump had made some surprising gains in the state last year. I admit, I think I called it exactly that, a nail biter. I was looking at polls, I was wrong. So were the polls. That race wasn't actually close at all. In fact, it ended up being an absolute blowout. Democrat Mikey Sherrill was elected governor by 13 points, outperforming all of the polling and exceeding every expectation heading into that race. And a lot of the criticism that she dealt with as well. She absolutely walloped her opponent. And she managed to reverse nearly all of Trump's gains in the state, especially in places like Passaic County, a heavily Hispanic area, where Trump managed to go from losing by 17 points back in 2020 to winning by three points in 2024. And last night, Mikey Sherrill won Passaic county by nearly 15 points, which is a complete 180 from where voters had been just one year ago. In fact, an analysis from the New York Times found that Sheryl improved upon Kamala Harris margin in every single one of the state's 21 counties. Everyone. And Democrats outperformed down the ballot there as well. New Jersey Democrats also expanded their majority in the state legislature and could end up flipping even more Republican seats when all the counting's finished. Now, just across the river in New York City, Democrats also had a huge night with Democrat Zoran Mamdani beating Trump backed independent Andrew Cuomo by nine points and getting over Trump the 50% mark. And he did it by bringing in a massive turnout among young voters and a broad coalition of people from across the city. Democrats didn't just beat Trump's preferred candidate in that race. They also beat a lot of Trump's billionaire buddies. I mean, Super PAC's opposing Mamdani raised over $40 million ahead of election day, with much of that money coming from known Trump backers like Bill Ackman and Ronald Lauder and Steve Wynn. So voters turned out in droves to reject that Trump billionaire funded campaign. But Zahra Mamdani Wasn't the only Democratic win in the Empire State last night with the very tippy top of New York State, the very tippy top, that part of New York that is somehow kind of wedged between Canada and Vermont. Democrats won a hotly contested special election for New York State assembly by less than 2,000 votes. Meanwhile, just south of New York State, Pennsylvania voted to protect the Democratic majority on the state Supreme Court, beating back a well funded campaign from a Republican mega donor who was kind, kind of like the Elon Musk of Pennsylvania, I guess you could call him. In just a second. I'm going to ask Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro what that will mean for protecting voting rights in his state and the fight to stop Republican redistricting efforts there. It's a very big deal. Now back up north in Maine. We're just taking you across the country here. Nearly half a million voters turned out in an off year to vote on two ballot initiatives. Maine voters soundly rejected a Republican backed measure to create new voter ID requirements and they approved a Democratic measure for new gun safety laws. Of course, the big ballot win of the night was over in California, where millions of voters turned out to vote in support of California's. Democrats plan to redraw their congressional maps in order to counter Trump's efforts to force red states like Texas to gerrymander their maps so that he can, of course, try to hold on to the House. Tired of winning yet? I'm not. Let's keep going, shall we? In Mississippi, yes, Mississippi, Democrats flipped three state legislative seats, breaking Republican supermajority in the state. In Georgia, Democrats flipped two statewide seats on Georgia's influential Public Service Commission. Basically everywhere you look across the country, Democrats won last night. Even in hyper, hyper local races, Democrats flipped Republican controlled seats at the city and county level. In Pennsylvania and Connecticut and New York, Democrats even had the added satisfaction of beating J.D. vance's half brother in the race for mayor of Cincinnati. And they beat him by a lot. So, yeah, it was one of the best nights Democrats have had in a very, very long time. Which kind of begs the question, you're a member of Donald Trump's Republican Party. How do you spin what everyone knows was an absolute thumping of your party? Well, they took different approaches. Little Mike Johnson went with the kind of the denial approach.

There's no surprises. What happened last night was blue states and blue cities voted blue. We all saw that coming. And no one should read too much into last night's election results. Off year elections are not indicative of what's to come. I Don't think the loss last night was any reflection about Republicans at all.

Okay. I mean, Johnson says that this was just blue states voting blue. Never mind the fact the Democrats won in the Republican controlled state of Virginia, or that these victories stretch deep into red states and small towns pretty much everywhere. So denial is certainly one way to cope with such a devastating loss, I guess. But at least Mike Johnson didn't try to throw his fellow Republicans under the bus while trying to absolve himself of any blame. I mean, you'd have to be pretty self involved and shameless to try something like that, right?

If you read the pulses, the shutdown was a big factor. Negative for the Republicans, and that was a big factor. And they say that I wasn't on the ballot was the biggest factor, but I don't know about that.

It's quite some analysis. I mean, Trump says Republicans lost because he wasn't on the ballot and because the shutdown was so negative for them. Okay, let me take that last part first. Never mind the fact that he is not just a random observer of the shutdown. He is the most powerful Republican who is dragging this shutdown on. He is responsible for it. And as for whether or not he was a factor, well, he may want to take a look at some of these exit polls, because even though he wasn't on the ballot, around 40% of voters in both Virginia and New Jersey said they came out to the polls specifically to oppose Donald Trump. Look, there were a lot of factors that led to the Democratic blowout last night. They won because of candidates who focused relentlessly on the issues that matter to the people. They were running to represent affordability and the cost of housing and energy and the burden of the government shutdown on communities across the country. They won because of a rising anger and outrage at the abuses of Donald Trump and his administration that we have seen at no Kings Road rallies across the country, driving millions to turnout in an off year to send a message. And they won because people like Zoran Mamdani and Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill and ballot initiatives like Prop 50 made people feel like they were voting for something and not just against someone. Politics is supposed to be about joy, about believing in something, about being a part of a bigger community. And last night was definitely a shot in the arm for that. It was a hugely important reminder that there are more of you than there are of them. But now is not the time to disengage. It's not the time to tell yourself that everything is fine now, that democracy is saved because there is a very long way to go and there are a lot of fights ahead for control of the House and the Senate and the battle over redistricting that continues and will continue and eventually for control of the White House. So how do Democrats carry the momentum of last night into those battles ahead? It's a big, important question now, and I have the perfect person to ask. One of the party's leading voices, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, joins me here to answer that question and many more in just 90 seconds.

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[Host Jen]

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[Senator Chris Murphy]

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[Host Jen]

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As promised. Joining me now is Pennsylvania's Democratic Governor, Josh Shapiro. Governor Shapiro, it's great to see you. It was a hell of a night for Democrats last night. So let me just start. Go ahead.

[Senator Chris Murphy]

It was.

[Host Jen]

No, it was a great night and it's great to be with you and excited to talk to you tonight.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. So let's start by asking you about that because we knew that it was going to be a good night by the polls or that's what we all kind of anticipated. But there were victories really across the country in blue cities, in purple states, red communities, in ballot initiatives all over the place, places that were unexpected and the volume and the margins of victory really were astonishing to me. So let me just start by asking you to get your high level reaction to what happened last night, what you really think it means about the electorate right now.

Look, I think the American people sent two very clear messages. First, they voted four candidates that were there to solve their problems and had a plan to get stuff done for them and had a plan to protect their fundament freedoms. And second, they sent a clear message to Donald Trump that they don't want the chaos and they're sick and tired of Donald Trump raising their prices and reducing their fundamental freedoms. And so I think what you saw was very clear in state after state, community after community, voting affirmatively for these candidates that were going to make people's lives better and sending a clear message to Donald Trump that he's making lives worse for people. And we don't want that.

Donald, I'm sure you saw this. I mean, Donald Trump seemed to spend the day today after the humiliating defeat ranting on social media about, I guess, how well he did in 2024, a year ago. We all know he likes to ignore reality when it doesn't suit him. Seems to be happening here. But what do you make of how he's coping with this resounding defeat so far?

I'm glad he brought up his track record from a year ago. So I'm here in Pennsylvania, of course, the kind of swingiest swing state in the country. Let's take a look at three of our Bel Weather counties that Donald Trump won a year ago. Bucks county and in Erie county and in Luzerne County. In all three of those counties that Donald Trump won a year ago, Democrats had resounding victories for offices like county executive and sheriff and DA flipping a county council in a county that Donald Trump won by nearly 20 points. And so what you're seeing is in just a year, folks have seen that Donald Trump has raised prices and reduced freedoms. And at the same time, people's lives are getting worse. Look, I think voters are smart, they're discerning. And what they realize is they don't like what Donald Trump is doing every day. This chaos he injects into our lives, into our country, it's making us worse off. And voters finally had a chance after about a year of that to go to the polls and make their voice heard. And in counties that Donald Trump won here in Pennsylvania, they rejected his hand picked candidates, they sent him a clear message, and they voted for Democrats who are poised to get stuff done in their communities.

And a resounding victory for those three state Supreme Court justices. I mean, it's two thirds of the vote, which is pretty amazing, despite the fact that the Elon Musk of Pennsylvania, as I'll call him, tried to buy those races. Let me ask you. Exactly. I mean, it was a 2/3 vote in Pennsylvania.

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Significant.

[Host Jen]

Yeah. And listen, Donald Trump told Pennsylvanians to vote no on these justices, by the way. I told him to vote yes and campaigned hard for them. And the reason I did that is because our. The rule of law matters. If we want to protect our democracy, we need judges who are going to do, who are going to act with integrity and respect the rule of law. Something Donald Trump doesn't understand. And so it was very clear Donald Trump was trying to throw these justices out. I did everything in my power to protect them. And they won a resounding victory because the voters here in the birthplace of democracy stood up for freedom and stood up for the rule of law.

Let me ask you about how we look ahead here, because, I mean, you were the attorney general, of course, in Pennsylvania when Donald Trump tried to steal a presidential election. He seems even more unleashed now than he was back then, or that's my assessment. How worried are you about what he's going to do try to do in 2026, and how are you preparing for that?

Look, I'm worried because, to use your word, he seems more unleashed than he was, you know, four, five, six years ago. And I think what's also concerning is all the people around him, you know, are just sycophants. They'll do whatever it is that he says and won't stand up to him. I'm incredibly worried. And in addition to that, I think we've seen this is a president who doesn't respect the rule of law and doesn't respect the people of this country enough to let them go to the polls and make up their own minds without him trying to interfere in that process. Now, I will remind you, because you and I talked about it on your show. We talked about it many times before. The last time Donald Trump tried to steal an election here in Pennsylvania, I went to court against him 43 times. I was 43. And, oh, he didn't win a single case. And we had a free and fair, safe and secure election, just as we did yesterday. So I know Donald Trump will try and do everything he can to rig this system to try and undermine people's confidence in our voting processes, to try and undermine our democracy. But we're going to continue to up to him. We're going to continue to go to court when he tries to undermine people's rights or take away their right to vote. And I believe that if past his prologue, we will again have a free and fair, safe and secure election and stand up to Donald Trump, stand up for the rule of law and win again.

And to your point, I mean, people turned out in huge droves despite his efforts to intimidate them across the country. Let me ask you about this question of candidates and kind of how they ran. I mean, there were very different candidates across the board that won last night across the country. And certainly the ones who've received sort of the most attention are the new governor elect, Abigail Spanberger, the new governor elect, Mikey Sherrill, and of course, the new mayor elect in New York City, Zoran Mamdani. I wanted to play this all kind of raised this debate about what the results tell us, about what the future of the party should look like and where Democrats go from here. I just want to play something that Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez said about this when she was asked last night. This is about do you understand the assignment of fighting fascism right now? And the assignment is to come together.

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[Host Jen]

What, what do you make of that assessment?

Well, look, when I looked at the election results last night, and as you said, you know, different candidates, different states, different cities, I did see a similar through line throughout. Each of these candidates spoke directly to their respective electorate about how they were going to make their lives better. Right. Reduce costs, make sure they're addressing the energy challenges, make sure they're addressing the needs of their particular state, their particular infrastructure needs, in the case of New Jersey. And I was out campaigning with Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger, I heard them relentlessly speaking about how they were going to over and over again make people's lives better. There's at the same time, all three of them spoke about how they would stand up for the rule of law and stand up against Donald Trump. And so while they're obviously different candidates, I saw a similar through line in each of those races. And it was about putting people first and standing up to Donald Trump and standing up for our freedom and our democracy. And voters went to the polls and they rewarded each of them with their votes in overwhelming numbers. And so I think as we go forward, you know, to me, Jen, this is less about, you know, are we sort of going this way or this way in terms of our party and our ideology. Instead, I think it's all of us together focusing on how to make people's lives better. That's what our party is for. And we're going to continue to do that work. I'll do it here in Pennsylvania, and I know the others will do it in their respective communities.

I mean, I think it's sort of a silly debate, is my honest view. Because the answer is, who's the future? It's like both and neither. There's lots of people who are the future of the party. That's the whole point. Let me just ask you. I mean, you were pretty direct. Direct about your concerns about Zoran Mamdani. You were very open about them over the summer. You said he needed to speak with more moral clarity about anti Semitism. I know you also have talked about a long phone call you had with him. My point is, you haven't held back. You've been very clear where you have concerns. But what do you think Democrats can take away from his victory?

Well, first off, I'll answer that. But let me just say, I mean, I've been very outspoken about the need for all leaders to speak and act with moral clarity. Party to call out hatred and bigotry in all forms wherever they see it, particularly people who want to be executives and lead their states or lead their communities. And to Mamdani's credit, after I said that about him, in response to a journalist's question, he picked up the phone and called me, and we had a very long and honest conversation. I told him how some of his words landed on me, how I thought it might land on others, and I thought it was a very productive and honest conversation. I mean, look, we didn't agree on every issue. That's probably not a shock to you or your viewers. But in terms of the second part of your question, the heart of your question, I think what we can learn from his race, and I give him credit for this, is he met people where they were. He listened to what mattered most to them, and he pledged to make change. You know, my first race for office was when I ran for state representative. And, man, nobody gave me a shot, Jen, to win that race. I was an underdog in a district that was overwhelmingly Republican. And I think I read that Mamdani started at 1% in his race. I probably started right around the same place. You know what I did? I went out and I knocked on 18,000 doors, and I listened to my community. And from listening, I was able to then go do for them. And I think what you saw with Mamdani was a guy who went out and listened. And now he's got the hard task of being the mayor of New York. He's got to go and do that hard work and deliver. So that's what I took away away from his victory. He listened, he heard where the voters were, and now he's got the responsibility to do the hard work.

The hard work is ahead. The hard work is governing. As hard as campaigns can be, the hard work is definitely the governing part. Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you so much for being here and being so generous with your time.

Great to be with you, Jen. Thank you.

Coming up, wasn't New Jersey supposed to be close? Wasn't New Jersey on the verge of turning red? Well, Mikey, Sheryl made those predictions look very, very silly last night. The governor elect is here to tell us how she did it and what Democrats across the country can learn from her blowout victory. We're back after a very quick break.

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[Host Jen]

Approval come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. At DSW stores [e-mail] Let us surprise you. There's a big change coming to this network. We will still seek the truth. We will still follow the story. The big change, the only change, is our new name. Same mission, new name.

MSNBC becomes Ms. Now. November 15th.

It was supposed to be the tightest race of the night. It was supposed to be a complete nail biter. The polls headed into election day showed Democrat Mikey Sherrill up by slim margins. Suffolk University's final poll had her leading by four. The last Emerson College poll had her up by just one point. But Mikey Sherrill cleaned Her Republican opponent's clock in the New Jersey governor's race race winning by 13 more than any late poll had projected by a lot. Her win dashed any dreams the Republican Party might have had about turning New Jersey red. And last night, New Jersey's next governor acknowledged just how important that is.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Liberty alone is not enough if the government makes it impossible for you to feed your family, to get a good.

[Host Jen]

Education or to get a good job.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

So in this country, that shouldn't be too much to ask. But right now, all of it seems at risk. Governors have never mattered more.

[Host Jen]

And joining me now is New Jersey's Democratic governor elect, Mikey Sherrill. It is great to see you. I'm sure just adjusting to that new title is its own adjustments less than 24 hours old. I wanted to start just by asking you. I mean, you not only won, you outperformed Kamala Harris. And one of the many groups you made gains with Washington was Latino voters, other groups as well, which last year seemed to be slipping away. Every state is of course, very different and obviously you know New Jersey very, very well. But I want to start by asking about what lessons you think there are for Democrats elsewhere, what lessons they should take from your campaign and how you won.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Was a great night. We moved every single county of all 21 counties to the left. And we also saw great gains in the Latino and black communities from the previous few cycles. I think There was a 22 point swing to the left in Hudson, an 18 point swing in Passaic County. But we also saw the, you know, the working class suburbs coming out strong, a traditional Republican stronghold, Morris County, I just won. It's the first time, I think since Watergate that a Democrat has won that county. That's, I've won parts of it because that was my old congressional district. But that was great to see. So I think, you know, the message here is relentlessly focusing on those things that are on voters minds. I spoke to thousands and thousands of New Jerseyans and heard day in and day out that they were having trouble making ends meet, that costs were too high. And it was relentless. It was grocery prices, it was electricity bills, it was housing costs, mortgages, rental rates, health care costs. I mean, everything just kept coming at them. And the fact that Trump had just made everything worse was front and center in people's minds.

[Host Jen]

The cost of living, the affordability argument was so present in your campaign. It was present in Spanberg, Abigail Spanberger's the new governor elect of Virginia's campaign, and also in Zoran Mamdani's. Campaign. It also meant you spent a lot of time and energy in ad space talking about those issues and not talking about other issues that you had pressure to talk about, like more on immigration or ICE raids or other things like that. Do you think that's a lesson for the party, too, in terms of the emphasis of time and energy and resources and what messages are effective out there?

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Well, I think when Democrats address some of those traditional stronghold issues, I mean, we built the traditional powerhouse Democratic coalition with working families in the suburbs, with black and Latino communities, and that has become. Because those communities really need to see good government, you know, that education is the opportunity for children to get ahead. So a state running a great education system, providing jobs and opportunities to get ahead is something that is so compelling in communities around the state who want to see that American dream. They want to build something for their families and they want their kids to do just a little bit better than they've done. It's where I think as Democrats, we can really thrive when we show up up to address costs and accountability and kids. And that's exactly what I focus my campaign on. It is, you're right. What Democrats across the spectrum are focusing their campaigns on is how do we address those key issues. I told New Jerseyans, if it's keeping you up at night as your governor, it's going to keep me up at night.

[Host Jen]

That's a smart thing. I'm sure people were happy to hear. What do you make of this? I find this to be very faulty analysis or a faulty line of questioning. I guess I should say that the future of the Democratic Party is either you and Governor Alex Spanberger or Zoran Mamdani. What do you make of that question? How do you answer that question when people pose it?

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Well, I've been saying, you know, I'm relentlessly focused on the needs of New Jersey, and I think that's what will lead to successful, you know, as your time in elected office, if you're in that kind of position as a mayor or as a governor, if you are successful, if you are addressing the key needs of your constituents, if you are driving down cost, if you are taking on those things that you need to take on to make them feel safe and secure, if you are focused on how their kids are going to get ahead and have good opportunity, then I think you will be successful. So I think the difference in the Democratic Party is that we are looking at different options on the table as to how different communities thrive. There is no one size fits all. All New York City is very different from Trenton. So I think there are different ways we go forward to make sure we're meeting people's needs. The difference here is in the Republican Party, there is only one person that decides how this goes. And by the way, that person is really taking an economy that was, I think we were expanding. I know here in New Jersey, I was hearing from employers that they wanted to hear how we were going to hire, you know, how we were going to train more workers. Now, now, with less than a year in office, President Trump has created an economy where layoffs are going on across the state, where college kids are worried about their job opportunities, where costs are going up everywhere, everything on a cup of coffee at grocery store prices, gas prices are set to rise, electricity costs are through the roof. And now he won't even spend the $6 billion he has to make sure people have access to food security. So at every level, he is driving up costs for families. And I think a relentless focus by Democrats on driving those costs down is going to be very successful.

[Host Jen]

You're 24 hours less than that into being the governor elect. I mean, one of the issues that was such a big issue, you know, well, in the race was, of course, Trump saying he was punishing New Jersey by terminating the Gateway Tunnel project. That, of course, would help millions of New Jerseyans who commute to New York City, as ofi mean. So, again, this is new. You've been less than 24 hours in this job. But what do you do now as you're thinking about how to fight back on that issue and how to fight back against Trump efforts, Trump's efforts to punish people in New Jersey, a state you're about to govern, how do you fight back? What's going to be your approach? Going to be.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Well, as we see this economy in real peril, we know that 20% of the nation's GDP is produced by the Northeast. And this is such a central area. It's the strategic choke point of the rail system, if you will, the most heavily trafficked rail. And yet it comes down to just two tunnels that have been damaged by Superstorm Sandy. So this is a real opportunity, opportunity to really create an economic gain here. It could be almost 100,000 jobs in the region. It could create more economic activity. And the president knows this. He knows this region well. And so I'm going to make the pitch. Look, we've got FIFA World cup coming up. We have the 250th anniversary of our nation. That's really. New Jersey is central to that. So I think there are some real opportunities to push into our country economy. We're going to find a way or make one as we say here in New Jersey now. So we'll figure that out. But I am going to make a big pitch for how this area of the country can help get our economy back on its feet.

[Host Jen]

Are you going to call them this week or when are you going to call them?

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Well, we haven't spoken yet, but I'm sure when we talk, the Gateway Tunnel will be front and center to that conversation.

[Host Jen]

I know it will be for you. Governor Elect, it is great talking to you. Congratulations, I'm certain. I spoke with your friend Senator Alyssa Slotkin last night about your text chain with the other Governor elect. I'm sure that was flying with lots of emojis last night. I hope you're enjoying the time with your family, too.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

It has been great. Yeah, I know Alyssa and Chrissy were watching and texting Abigail and I, I tried calling Abigail. She was on. The governor's race in Virgin Virginia was an hour earlier. The polls closed. So I was calling her when she was on stage. Then she called me when I was on stage. And then we're texting madly back and forth. So it was a great night for everyone.

[Host Jen]

It was a shot in the arm for so many people across the country. Again, Governor Elect Mikey Sherrill, thank you so much for taking the time.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Host Jen]

Coming up, Donald Trump admitted today out loud on camera that voters are blaming Republicans for the government shutdown. Yeah, dude, we know. Senator Chris Murphy is standing by with his reaction. He's going to join me live in just a moment. We'll be right back. So Donald Trump and his bevy of MAGA Republicans are very comfortable lying to the public left and right. We all know that. But there are some lies that you, you just can't really get away with.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

For people that don't have 401 s.

[Host Jen]

Or not invested in the stock market.

[Governor Mikey Sherrill]

They'Ve seen their grocery prices go up.

[Host Jen]

Inflation. No, you're wrong.

[Senator Chris Murphy]

They went up under Biden.

[Host Jen]

Right now they're going down.

I mean, Trump has shown a remarkable ability over the years to convince large swaths of the American public of all sorts of things that aren't true. But there are topics where Trump's lies just aren't still. A new poll finds about 70% of Americans say groceries are more expensive now than they were a year ago. And about 60% of them are blaming President Trump. There you go. That was on Fox News. I mean, no matter how much Trump tries, his spin is no match for reality. When it starts to hit Americans at home, people can tell if their groceries are getting more expensive. And I think that's an important thing to remember as we think about what we saw in elections all across the country last year. Now, don't get me wrong, there are millions of reasons, we've been talking about them throughout the course of the show, why Democrats won so many races last night. But there is one reason Trump is blaming for why Democrats did so well and why Republicans did so poorly.

I thought we'd have a discussion after the press leaves about what last night represented and what we should do about it. And also about the shutdown, how that relates to last night. I think if you read the pollsters, the shutdown was a big factor, negative for the Republicans.

Don't you love that he's announcing what the private conversation's gonna be? There's that. I mean, that was Trump speaking to Republican senators this morning. And he's right. Poll after poll has shown that the American public blame Republicans for the government shutdown. And I think that is because the shutdown is not some big abstract political thing happening in D.C. it is impacting Americans lives in a real, tangible way that Republicans can't spin their way out of. I mean, yesterday, despite court orders from two different federal judges requiring the Trump administration to fund SNAP, the food stamp program nearly 42 million Americans rely on, Trump claimed he would refuse to release any funding until Democrats caved and ended the shutdown. Now, the White House has since walked back that claim, but food is still not at Americans tables. Despite the Trump administration saying that they will partially fund SNAP benefits this month, millions of Americans Americans still may not actually see that aid anytime soon because the guidance that Trump's USDA has given states for distributing those partial benefits is filled with red tape. That could mean it will take weeks before anyone can actually access those funds. And just like the Trump administration's decision to not fund SNAP in the first place, none of that is necessary. I mean, the Trump administration is choosing to make this as painful as possible. Even once that partial funding is eventually distributed. The Trump administration is actively choosing, even though they don't have to, to make it just 50% of what Trump snap, of what snap recipients are entitled to. That means the average SNAP allowance right now is just $187 per person a month. The Trump administration is choosing to make that just $93.50. Can you imagine trying to buy a month's worth of groceries with just 93 bucks. That's the reality the Trump administration is forcing upon millions of Americans right now. And that is a reality that no amount of lies can spin. President Trump is not lying about one thing, though, that this shutdown is hurting the Republican Party's popularity. That's true. So now the question is, how can Democrats use the clear message from last night's win to get Republicans to end this shutdown? Senator Chris Murphy is on the front lines of those negotiations, and he joins me live when we come back. One would think that the spines of Democrats in Congress got even stiffer after last night's blowout. And I think my next guest hopes that's the case. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. What a big blowout last night. I want to talk to you about that. But what's also happening right now is the government remains shut down, which is having a huge impact on Americans across the country. And the Washington Post is reporting there is a group of about a dozen, what they're describing as mobile, moderate Senate Democrats considering striking a bipartisan deal to end the shutdown and fund the government if Republicans pledge to put the ACA subsidies up for a vote. I'm guessing because I've been watching what you've been saying and watching what you've been saying online that you don't think that's the right strategy. But tell me why.

[Senator Chris Murphy]

Well, I mean, first of all, it was great to see Governor Elect Sherrill and you talking about, you know, what a big win she had last night. This was a night where, you know, clearly it was a referendum on Trump's corruption and chaos. But I also do think that this was an endorsement of the Democratic Party, which has been, for the first time this year, really showing some fight, standing up for our values and saying, listen, we're not going to sign on to a corrupt, immoral budget. People don't want the shutdown to continue any longer than is necessary, but they know who's causing it. Increasingly, people say, listen, this is Donald Trump, Trump's shutdown. All he has to do is sit down and negotiate with Democrats for a couple hours and the shutdown could be over. Because what are we asking for? It's not unreasonable. It's not earth shattering. We're just saying don't raise premiums on 22 million Americans by 25, 75, 150% this fall. That's what we're asking for to get the government back open and operating. And the president could cut that deal in a of matter Matter of minutes. So, yes, I think it would be very strange after the country just came out and rewarded Democrats for finally standing up and fighting for our values, to then give in to Donald Trump and cease fighting. Donald Trump said this morning he doesn't want the shutdown to continue. And so it's probably just a matter of time before he's in a discussion with Democrats about how to end the shutdown and protect people in this country. Country from these massive health care increases. Maybe that's overly optimistic, but we should at least wait a few days to find out how he's gonna react to this thumping Republicans took last night.

[Host Jen]

Yeah, I mean, it's the moral thing to do, the right thing. I think I first met you when you were running on healthcare. You've been fighting on this issue for two decades longer than that. It's the morally right thing, but it's also politically the right thing. If you're Trump, it's politically the right thing to make sure costs don't go up on health care. Do you think after the thumping last night, I love that term. And it was a clear referendum on Trump, a clear referendum in support of what the Democrats are standing for. Do you think any Democrats spines have stiffened who may have been a part of this group who were kind of contemplating folding on this?

[Senator Chris Murphy]

I mean, we've obviously been in close discussions all day today. You know, the folks who are in that room talking to Republicans, Republicans in discussions with people like me who believe that we should continue this fight to protect people's health care. And hopefully there will be some fruit from those discussions in the coming days. But you are right to point out the moral consequences of reopening a government with premiums doubling for Americans. The estimates are that about 4 million Americans would lose their health care insurance. I spoke, I spoke to a woman in South Florida just earlier this week where the horror will be the worst. Who is going to lose her insurance and is going to have to decide whether she or her husband gets health care. They both have very complicated illnesses. They are deciding which one of them is going to survive to be able to take care of their four kids. So shutdowns are very hard. They involve lots of pain. But if we reopen the government and 4 million Americans lose their health care and shift insurance, there is enormous moral cost to that. There is pain as well. Republicans have put us in the situation where we have to choose between a shutdown where people don't get food and reopening the government in which people lose their health care. That's a false choice. But the voters told us on Tuesday night that they want us to keep this fight up on behalf of their health care. And I think that we should keep this fight going to at least see if Donald Trump is willing to come to the negotiating table.

[Host Jen]

And the Trump administration could choose to fund SNAP benefits. They have funding to do that for some period of time. They've obviously not done that fully. What about because there are Republicans, they have to have looked at the election last night and the outcome and maybe if, you know, maybe raise the question for them. Maybe I shouldn't follow. Exactly. Trump's chaotic playbook or his playbook of keeping the government shut down. Are you hearing any. I realize it's been 24 hours, but any rumbling of any of them who are thinking maybe we need to come to a deal on these premiums?

[Senator Chris Murphy]

Well, you know, there's reporting this morning that Trump convened them all at the White House and told them to blow up the Senate rules. And there was a somewhat chilly reaction to his request. And, you know, maybe that's the beginnings of a Republican Party that's realizing that they are being led off a cliff by Donald Trump. Obviously, if all you care about is politics, the offer we're making to Republicans is kind of a gift to them because we're saying, listen, we will work with you to alleviate the political pain that you are going to feel if people's premiums go up and you get blamed for it. There's polling today showing that, of course, the American public know that if their premiums go up, it's Republicans that did that to them. But because we care first about people and second about politics, we're willing to do an agreement, agreement that saves lives in this country that, you know, may ultimately provide some short term political benefit to Republicans in the end. They've enacted so much pain on the American public between tariffs and the Medicaid cuts that they're not going to be completely absolved. But if I were a political advisor to Republicans, I'd tell them, cut this deal with Democrats, get the government open and operating and save people's health care from going through this massive premium increase. That'd be good for probably everybody. Everybody.

[Host Jen]

It's pretty unbelievable. We will send this out on Blue sky and Twitter and all the places you can see state by state and district by district, the impacts of these premiums and of the Medicaid cuts, too. We'll send it out. Senator Chris Murphy, thank you so much. You'll have to come back. We'll talk about politics, but the government shut down the impact so important. So appreciate you spending the time.

[Senator Chris Murphy]

Appreciate it.

[Host Jen]

Okay, we've got to sneak in a quick break, but trust me, tonight is one of those nights when you're really going to want to hear hear Lawrence's monologue. I will. We'll be right back. Before we go, the latest episode of my podcast, the Blueprint is out now. I sat down this morning with former Obama campaign manager David Plouffe and Democratic strategist Liz Smith to talk the ins and outs of last night's seismic victories for Democrats. It's out now. Wherever you get your podcasts, that does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok holiday PSA from DSW. This is a reminder that shoes are a gift, literally. So unwrap something good, like boots that inspire your next big adventure or cozy slippers that give you an excuse to stay in or sneakers that feel like pure joy. Because shoes aren't just shoes, they're exactly what you wanted. Let us surprise you so you can surprise find shoes that get you and everyone on your lips at prices that get your budget at dsw stores or dsw.com.