← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
TRUMP TRAIN WRECK: Wheels come off as Trump throws crash out tantrum over Epstein files
00:40:58
Jen Psaki reports on Donald Trump's spiraling freak-out over the public interest in the investigation files on notorious pedophile and close friend of Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, with Trump going so far as to condemn his own followers as "stupid," and attempting to somehow blame his involvement with Epstein on Democrats.
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Nicole Wallace
Today, MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, Nicole speaks with legendary songwriter and music produce Jimmy Jam.
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Jimmy Jam
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Nicole Wallace
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MSNBC Host
There is a ton of news coming in tonight. We've just learned that Maureen Comey, James Comey's daughter and longtime DOJ prosecutor in the Southern District of New York who worked on the cases against Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, has been fired. We're going to get into all of that with Senator Adam Schiff and Congressman Ro Khanna in just a moment. But I want to start tonight with some of the very strange behavior we are seeing from the President. Look, we all know that Donald Trump has always been far, far from a normal guy. That's one way of describing it. I mean, his behavior is often erratic, his public statements can be completely bizarre, and at times he doesn't seem to know what is going on inside his own government. But recently it seems like he is. Well, not at all. Okay, I guess is one way to describe it. Let me show you what I mean. Yesterday, Trump attended an AI summit in Pittsburgh, and within 10 minutes of taking the microphone, he launched into an utterly strange digression about his uncle and the notorious domestic terrorists. Of all people, Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber.
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Donald Trump
My uncle was at MIT, one of the great professors, 51 years, whatever. He was longest serving professor in the history of mit. Kaczynski was one of his students. Do you know who Kaczynski was? There's very little difference between a madman and a genius. But Kaczynski, I said, what kind of a student was he? Uncle John, Dr. John Trump? He said, what kind of a student? And then he said, seriously good. He said he'd correct, he'd go around correcting everybody. But it didn't work out too well for him.
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MSNBC Host
I love the look on the face of the guy next to him. You can sort of see in that video. But again, to sum that up, Trump says his uncle taught the Unabomber at mit. And apparently the question of all the possible questions Trump asked him was what kind of a student Kaczynski was. And then he felt the need to share the detail that the Unabomber was a good student to some perplexed people. And yes, that's a pretty weird, pretty creepy thing for the President of the United States or really anyone to say at an event that was supposed to be about artificial intelligence. But it gets weirder because the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, never attended mit. And while Trump did have an uncle who worked at MIT, his uncle died in 1985, which is a full 11 years before the Unabomber was publicly identified and apprehended. So I guess either Donald Trump is confessing to having known the identity of the Unabomber more than a decade before he was caught. There could be that, I suppose, or something is seriously off with Donald Trump. And that is hardly, that's not a one off. That is hardly the only incident. I mean, today reporters in the Oval Office asked Donald Trump about new reporting that he has floated the idea of firing Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell. And this is how he responded.
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Donald Trump
He's a terrible Fed chair. I was surprised he was appointed.
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MSNBC Host
He's a terrible Fed chair. I was surprised he was appointed. Were you, Were you really surprised he was appointed? The person who nominated him for that job was you, Donald Trump. It was you. Trump picked Jerome Powell to run the Fed during his first term. There they are, right there being announced. He does not seem to remember basic facts about his own life. He does not seem to remember things that happened as recently as his first term. This is a guy who once boasted he had the best memory of all time. His words certainly not mine. But now those apparent memory lapses are bleeding into the self inflicted scandal that has rocked his administration and ignited a full on MAGA result revolt. I'm of course talking about what has come to be known as the Epstein files. Just a few hours ago, Trump won on a friendly right wing network in an attempt to quell the outcry again, to try to quell it again and deflect the blame. And here's what he said.
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Donald Trump
In the case of Epstein. They've already looked at it and they are looking at it and I think all they have to do is put out anything credible but you know, that was run by the Biden administration for four years. I can imagine what they put into files.
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MSNBC Host
That was run by the Biden administration for four years. Once again, for whatever reason, because the guy's a little off right now, it seems. Trump's memory seems to have failed him. Maybe he needs to Google who was president six years ago. Because Trump was president when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on sex trafficking charges. Trump was also president when Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail cell. And Trump was president when Epstein's criminal case was officially closed. All that took place in 2019, more than a year before Joe Biden even became president. Trump seems completely lost on all of this, but his most ardent supporters are definitely not. I mean, they've spent the last five years steeped in every single detail of this case. And as the calls to release the Epstein files intensify, Trump is finding himself increasingly at odds with his own base with every day that passes. Now he's lashing out at his own supporters. I mean, this morning, Trump posted an absolutely banana screed that you really have to read to believe it. I mean, first he called it the whole Epstein matter a scam and a hoax. Then he attacked his own voters who believed he would deliver on his promise because he they had been told that he would to actually release the Epstein files, saying, quote, my past supporters have bought into this BS hook, line and sinker. Guess who fed the bs? Others of your supporters. Then he went after his orders even more, essentially calling them stupid. They haven't learned their lesson and probably never will, he said, accusing them of being conned by the lunatic left. Finally, he called his supporters weaklings and declared, I don't want their support anymore. All kinds of reminds you of a child pounding his fist because he wasn't invited to a birthday party, doesn't it? Or something like that. A child who has access to truth social or a social media site, I suppose. But the point is, this is all so unhinged, even for Trump, that some of his most vocal supporters initially refused to believe Trump had actually posted that himself. Guess they thought another person could perfectly replicate the all caps grammatically incorrect flow of Trump's hosts. Who knows? That's what they thought, though. They questioned it. But any doubts they had went out the window when Trump repeated his outrage. Greed on camera in the Oval Office.
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Donald Trump
It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. And so they try and do the Democrats work. They Want to talk about the Epstein hooks. And the sad part is it's people that are really doing the Democrats work. They're stupid, stupid people.
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MSNBC Host
They're stupid people. I mean, that's what he's calling his own supporters. It's always a dead giveaway, by the way, that you're coming a bit unwound when you start attacking the very people who ignored all of your other many flaws and still cast their votes for you. And just to give you a sense of how expansive the group is that Trump is calling stupid here today, Politico obtained internal Democratic polling That shows that 61% of Trump voters believe that law enforcement is, is withholding information about powerful people connected to Epstein. And public polling finds the exact same thing. I mean, a CNN poll found that only 4% of Republicans say they are satisfied with the information released about Epstein to date. And a Quinnipiac poll out today finds that 36% of Republicans disapprove of Trump's handling of the Epstein case. YouGov poll also finds yesterday, this was out yesterday, finds that 50% of Republicans think the government is covering up evidence about the Epstein case case. Those are all the people Trump is calling stupid. He's effectively writing off somewhere between a third and half of his own voters. It's not even just rank and file supporters. They are important, too. Not just them he's calling stupid people. I mean, the list of people who have promoted the Epstein conspiracy include Trump's FBI director, Trump's deputy FBI director, Trump's vice president, his own adult son, just among a few. And they all had good reason to believe that releasing more information was exactly the plan. I mean, remember in February, Trump invited a group of his loudest online supporters to come to the White House for what he called the Release of Phase 1 of the Epstein files. He gave them all binders of documents, which turned out to just be full of documents that had already been made public. But he made a whole show of it. They all had the expectation there was going to be a lot more coming. But then when a lot more did not come, some of his most loyal right wing allies started turning on him. And, and that has only grown. I mean, just in the past 24 hours. Just in the past 24 hours. Infowars conspiracy theorist Alex Jones said Trump's threats to excommunicate his followers sounds like a thoroughbred cult. That's what he said. Trump's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn posted a very long screed you can see on the screen on X defending the maga fixation with Epstein. Joe Rogan is openly mocking the Trump administration's handling of all of this. All of this is in addition to previous criticism from other big Trump world figures like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon and Laura Loomer. The people with huge megaphones in Trump space are very, very mad. And this issue doesn't seem like it's going away anytime soon. In fact, we are still getting some new developments every single day. I mean, Trump keeps talking about it, so there's that. But Wired magazine also reported today that there appears to be three minutes of footage edited out of the Epstein security tapes that have already been released. NBC News reported that the family of Epstein co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell is appealing to Trump for help with her ongoing case. And amid all of that, Democrats are keeping the pressure level set too high. Just yesterday, Democrats forced a vote on an amendment to compel the Justice Department to release more information on Epstein. And that vote was blocked, of course by Republicans. Not of course. I mean, these are some of the people from the same party where they're calling for more to be released. So they blocked it. They had the chance to, and they blocked it. So the party that spent years hyping the Epstein files is now on the record blocking their release. Just to kind of sum that one up. For probably the first time, Republican lawmakers are caught between Trump and the MAGA movement he created. And for now, most of them are still following Trump's lead, even though he seems completely lost. But MAGA clearly expects more. Some of the people with the biggest megaphones are demanding more, and Democrats aren't standing down either. Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna was the one who forced that vote on the Epstein files yesterday. He's currently working to force another vote on this issue in the future, and he's going to join me to talk about that all in 90 seconds.
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Nicole Wallace
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MSNBC Host
We're back. And joining me now is Congressman Ro Khanna, Democrat from California. He's teamed up with a Republican colleague in the House to try and force a vote on whether the Trump administration should publicly Release all the files related to Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. This is such an interesting development around all of this. You've been working with Thomas Massie on this bill. You had put forward the amendment, which didn't move forward. What does this bill actually do?
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Ro Khanna
Would it.
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MSNBC Host
What would it compel them to release?
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Ro Khanna
So it does two things. First, it forces a vote on the House floor. The speaker doesn't want to have a vote. This would force a vote if 218 members sign it. And second, it would compel the release of all Epstein files while making it explicitly clear that victims are protected and no child pornography gets released. But all of the evidence, and if there's a client list, that gets out.
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MSNBC Host
So you've worked with Thomas Massie before. This is not your first rodeo with Thomas Massie. But you were just telling me he's gotten more support from Republicans. Where are you right now in terms of the support you need to move this forward?
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Ro Khanna
It's really remarkable. He's been texting me all day. We got Boebert. We got Marjorie Taylor Greene. We have up to seven Republicans now. When I've worked with Thomas Massie before, it's been on War Powers Resolution. We're both very passionate that presidents have to come to Congress before taking strikes overseas. We did it to stop the war in Iran. We got exactly one Republican, Thomas Massie, and now we have seven. And it shows that this is a real fracture in the Republican base.
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MSNBC Host
And that's enough, isn't it?
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Ro Khanna
That's enough. So the way this works is the bill needs to be on the calendar for seven days. After seven days, we can get the signatures. Unfortunately, Congress will be in recess in August, but when we come back, we'll have the signatures and then we get a vote. But what's happening is the president is hearing this and responding. He's not just lashing out at Thomas Massie on Truth Social, where he's getting ratioed for the first time, but he's also now saying, look, he wants to appoint a special prosecutor. I think what the lesson for Democrats is, look, we don't have to respond to Trump in kind when he insults us. We don't have to just insult him back or get in the gutter. We can actually fight him in a very smart way, which is to say this populism was a house of cards. You said that the government was corrupt. You said that you didn't want to protect rich, powerful men. And then when you had the chance to release the files about protecting rich, powerful men to protect our children, you Bluffed.
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MSNBC Host
Well, but don't you think that's all just him melting down and freaking out? I mean even the special prosecutor thing, which the headline is totally misleading because he's basically trying to add in a bunch of disproven things that he's saying he's gonna declassify.
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Ro Khanna
Exactly.
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MSNBC Host
It's not a real. But isn't he. This is him kind of melting down and seeing the pressure, I think. But let me ask you about. Cuz there's these seven Republicans I can't imagine you ever thought you'd be on something with Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, but here we are in July of 2025. How do you keep them on board through a very long August recess where they're gonna get pressure from Trump in the White House, probably be cheered by the manosphere. Is that what your hope is?
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Ro Khanna
You know, I originally would tell you that they were gonna fold. I mean that's been the case when it comes to Medicaid cuts. That's been the case when it's come to Iran and the strikes. But in this case there's something different. And what's different is the MAGA base really is disappointed in Donald Trump. I mean they, they, they voted for him because they thought the whole system was corrupt. They voted for him because they thought he was going to clean this up. And you know what I've told someone I said more damaging for Donald Trump than being in the Epstein files is that he's not releasing them. I think if he was in the Epstein profiles that sort of baked in, people are like, okay, won't be shocked. But he promised that he was going to these rich and powerful people and he's not doing that. And so I think in this case the pressure is only gonna build. The fact that they're co sponsoring this, that's even a stronger sign than just signing a discharge petition.
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MSNBC Host
Yeah, it probably depends on how he's in the Epstein files. If he's in there, I have no idea why he's like so obsessed and talking about this all the time. There are clearly, the MAGA base clearly thinks that there is stuff in there, right? Not necessarily about Trump or who know what they think, but about other people. What do you think is in there?
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Ro Khanna
I think that there is probably evidence and witness interviews of rich powerful men who engaged in behavior that they shouldn't have engaged in. Now what happened is probably it didn't rise to the level of prosecution and there's a reason in this country that the DOJ has a policy that says we don't leak things if we don't charge people. You don't want a Justice Department out there just leaking, destroying people's reputations. But this case, I think the president has to say, is different. The attorney general has said that there's a client list. He himself campaigned on this. People are wondering whether national security is at stake, whether intelligence agencies are at stake. And what he should say is because of all of that, there's an exception and I'm going to just release everything, not the victims, but everything else and let the American people decide. He's the one who has raised the stakes. But you know what's so depressing to me as being a member of Congress, and I don't know if you saw this when you worked for President Biden, is the distrust people have in government. Right? When John F. Kennedy was president, 60% of Americans trusted government. That number is in the teens. And if we don't release these files now, that numbers continue to go down. And so for people say why should we care about this? Medicaid is being cut, immigrants are being deported without due process. We should care about this because it's about the trust in government. And without that, nothing else matters.
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MSNBC Host
Congressman Ro Khanna, you're relentless. You're continuing to push this. Let's keep talking about it. I want to keep hearing, keep giving us updates on other Republican.
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Ro Khanna
I can text you every Republican that signs up.
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MSNBC Host
If any come in the next 40 minutes, let us know and we'll tell people about it. Thank you so much for being here with me.
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Ro Khanna
Thanks for having me.
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MSNBC Host
When we come back, Donald Trump is trying to reward his legal attack dog with a lifetime appointment to a federal judgeship. I'm going to talk to Senator Adam Schiff about what Democrats are doing to get stop him, what we should be concerned about. And there's a lot of things. And later, Senate Republicans want to claw back money they used to be fine with spending all to satisfy Doge. We're going to get the latest on that fight from Senator Mark Kelly. That's ongoing. It's all coming after a break. Tomorrow, Republicans will have yet another opportunity. They have so many to do the right thing about this guy Emil Bovey. And it should be a no brainer. I mean, prior to Trump's reelection, Bovie was part of his criminal defense team. And once Trump was back in office, Bovie was quickly named acting Deputy Attorney General, a position he only served in for 128 days, which is a relevant point because in that time, Bobby did his best to wreak absolute Havoc on the department. I mean, he effectively led the DOJ's purge of lawyers who worked on January 6th cases. He's the same guy who ordered corruption charges to be dropped against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. And according to a whistleblower report revealed in June, Bovey told DOJ lawyers to consider defying court orders to carry out Trump's immigration crackdown. Now, and that's just some of it. In a sane world, a record like that would probably ensure that Emil Bovey would not have a serious job in the federal government or probably any serious law firm ever again. But we aren't living in a sane world, at least not when it comes to Republican controlled Senate and, of course, the White House. At the end of May, Trump nominated his former personal lawyer. That same guy turned DOJ enforcer to a lifetime judicial appointment as a federal judge in the 3rd Circuit, a court of appeals. A possible sign that Trump has even bigger aspirations for his former henchmen. Which is a scary thought, but it's possible. And naturally, during his confirmation hearing at the end of June, Bovey was questioned about the whistleblower's claims. His answers were, shall we say, less than reassuring.
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Senator Adam Schiff
In the complaint, it says Bovet stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts you and ignoring any such court order. Did you say anything of that kind in the meeting.
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Donald Trump
Senator?
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Senator Adam Schiff
I have no recollection of saying anything of that kind. It seems to me that would be something you'd remember, unless that's the kind of thing you say frequently. Well, I've certainly said things encouraging litigators at the department to fight hard. So did you or did you not make those comments during that meeting? Which comment, Senator? You really need me to repeat it?
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MSNBC Host
Now, since that hearing, the DOJ whistleblower, Rez Reuveni, said he's willing to testify under oath to Congress about all of this. But thanks to the spineless Republican chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley, who seemed unbothered by the eye popping whistleblower report, somehow there won't be any additional hearings for Bovey's nomination. And tomorrow the committee will vote to move his confirmation vote to the Senate floor, now it's likely that Bovey's nomination will move out of committee. The pressure is still on to stop his nomination from moving through the full Senate. Yesterday, over 75 former federal and state judges signed a letter urging lawmakers to reject Bovey's deeply inappropriate nomination. And Today, more than 900 former Justice Department lawyers sent a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee saying that Bovey had disgraced the department and that his confirmation would be intolerable. Again, voting against him should be a no brainer, but it's still possible this man could become a federal judge. Don't go anywhere because after the break, I'm going to be speaking with a Democratic member of the Senate Judiciary who's been one of the loudest voices in sounding the alarm about Emil Bovey. California Senator Adam Schiff joins me next. Joining me now is Senator Adam Schiff of California, who is a Democratic member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. As always, whenever you come on, there's a million things happening. But let me just start by asking you, because I don't want to blow through this. I mean, the whistleblower report was pretty outrageous. You also, the committee then also had the receipts and also the whistleblower was willing to testify. As I just mentioned, Chairman Grassley refused to hold another hearing, which is kind of mind blowing. Were you actually given an explanation as to why or what should we understand as to why there wasn't another hearing?
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, Chairman Grassley wrote a letter back trying to justify not wanting to hear from this whistleblower, which is a tough case to make because this is a very credible whistleblower. This is someone who was promoted time after time, given accolades by the department, promoted even within the Trump administration. He was a vocal proponent of the president's immigration policies. And here he is fired because he told the truth about the mistake involving the rendering of Abrego Garcia. And the response to this act is, well, we don't want to hear from this whistleblower. We don't want to hear what he's alleging, which is serious allegations against Bovey, that Bovey was suggesting the Justice Department should basically tell the courts to f off and just ignore court orders. And this prosecutor making these allegations, this former prosecutor, is far more credible than Bovey, who claims not to recall any of this. And when you consider the lengthy kind of, you know, improper rap sheet of this nominee, which includes his fellow prosecutors in New York saying he should be demoted when he was a prosecutor in New York to a federal judge saying that the case he was supervising was essentially misleading the court, withholding exculpatory evidence to the point where the case gets dismissed, to the point where he goes to the Justice Department and almost en masse attorneys are quitting rather than do the unethical things he wants, like dismiss a corruption case against the mayor of New York. And then you have this whistleblower allegation why not hear from Ms. Whistleblower? And I think the answer is Republicans on that committee have taken a posture. We don't want to see it, we don't want to hear it, we don't want to think about it, we don't want to know about it. We're just here to do the President's bidding. And right now, Donald Trump is daring them, daring any of them, to stand up to even his most outrageous nominees for, in this case, a lifetime appointment, it seems.
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MSNBC Host
I mean, and you've alluded to this, of course he's going to get through the committee. Probably likely. Do you have hope that there's a lot of effort to make people aware and put pressure on Republicans in the Senate? Do you have any hope there could be four Republicans who might vote against him? Is that still a possibility in your mind?
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Senator Adam Schiff
You know, it is possible. I'm not willing to bet on it because most of the time, if you bet on Republicans to stand up to this president, you're going to lose. I mean, look at who the Cabinet is filled with, with the likes of the Pam Bondies and the Tulsi Gabbards and the RFK Juniors. So this is just one more extreme nominee. But, you know, there was a time, and it wasn't that long ago, where people like this would have been roundly rejected. I think Republicans, you know, there was one Republican, Thom Tillis, who stood up to one nominee in the Judiciary Committee, Ed Martin, and rejected him. But sadly, that might be a one off.
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MSNBC Host
You always give it to us straight, which I always appreciate. I started the show talking about how Trump is melting down, in my view, saying some weird stuff, some off stuff, all sorts of things. And when that happens, he has this trend. He likes to go after some of his favorite targets, you being one of them. And yesterday he called for your criminal prosecution for what he alleged is mortgage fraud. How do you respond to that? Or do you.
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Senator Adam Schiff
Well, you know, first of all, it's, it's quite a letdown because in the past he was accusing me of treason and being a traitor, leaking classified information, you name it. And now he's resorted to a baseless claim of mortgage fraud. Really? Is that the best you can do? So it's, on the one hand, very pathetic. On the other hand, this is now what he's doing with lots of his opponents. He has a plant, Justice Department, department made up of his former criminal defense attorneys willing to go after anyone. So they're threatening me, they're threatening James Comey, they're threatening John Brennan, they're threatening, really anyone who has the audacity to stand up to Donald Trump. But this comes at also a very convenient moment, which is he is just stewing over his base, calling for the release of these Epstein files. And given his close friendship with Epstein, Epstein calling him one of his closest friends over the last 10 years, his reluctance, his unwillingness to do what was promised and released these files is causing all of this churn. So when that happens to Donald Trump, he lashes out at his kind of enemies list, which I'm on. Look at Adam Schiff, look at James Comey, look at this, look at that, look at Hillary Clinton. But whatever you do, don't look at me, don't look at the Epstein files. So this is just also part of his campaign of distraction, I suspect, or.
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MSNBC Host
My gut is this is also related. I mentioned there's a lot of things to ask you about. And another one is that tonight we learned that the DOJ has fired Maureen Comey, who's a well respected federal prosecutor who also happens to be, I like to phrase it that way, the daughter of former FBI Director James Comey from her job in the Southern District of New York. And she worked, I started the show talking about this in the U.S. attorney's office for nearly a decade where, among other things, she handled high profile sex trafficking prosecutions and was responsible for prosecuting both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. What's your reaction to the reporting and what do you make of it?
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Senator Adam Schiff
You know, none of this is good news for the Trump administration or the American people for that matter, because either she was fired because she's James Comey's daughter, which would be totally inappropriate and a wrongful termination, or she was fired because she was prosecuting Epstein and his accomplices. And why would they fire her over that and why would they fire her now? So none of this makes any sense or none of it as a good or innocent explanation to it, which is why they're just continuing to founder over this. They created this conspiracy theory, they fed this conspiracy theory and now they have a MAGA base that has bought into it. And Donald Trump is at the point of calling his own supporters weaklings who bought into this bullshit that he was peddling, among others. So this is just widening and expanding upon all of the distrust of Donald Trump by his own base. And I think that's the ultimate impact.
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MSNBC Host
I think that sounds right to me and it certainly is a whole load of bs. So thanks for calling it out like that. Senator Adam Schiff, I always enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much for making the time tonight. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the effort by Republicans that's ongoing in Congress right now to claw back money that communities are depending on call in the name of satisfying Doge proposed cuts. And we're also going to talk about what Democrats are doing about it. That's right. After a quick break. What you see right here on your screen are live pictures of the Senate floor where lawmakers have been engaged in what's called a votorama for about eight hours now. It's an opportunity for lawmakers to propose unlimited amendments to legislation. And Democratic senators tonight are using it to try to stall Republicans from passing their rescissions package. And the rescissions package is a move by Republicans in Congress to claw back government funds that they had previously voted on and appropriated. In this case, Republicans are using this as a way to codify some of the cuts proposed by Doge into law, specifically cuts to public media and foreign aid. The Republican package would claw back $8.3 billion in foreign aid, which includes subsidies for American farmers who grow food that USAID purchases and gives to starving people all around the world. It would also take away $1.1 billion from the corporation for Public Broadcasting, which provides funding to NPR and pbs. These cuts are not just about potentially losing beloved PBS shows like Daniel Tiger and beloved PBS news programming, which is important, too. And Daniel Tiger, you can see there, my kids loved it. My next guest grandchild also loved it. It's also about access to emergency broadcast alerts and public safety announcements, and a lot of communities depend on it for that. And given the recent flash flooding events that have killed over 100 people across multiple states, and now devastating wildfires occurring in places like Arizona, these emergency systems are proving to be especially vital. Joining me now is Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. Senator Kelly, thank you so much for joining me. I just showed a picture of the Senate floor. I know you've been in and out of there. So tell us what's going on right now. People are still proposing amendments, I assume, or tell us what's happening.
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Senator Mark Kelly
Yeah, we go back and forth between Democrats and Republicans, and we on our side are trying to get some of this funding restored. You know, things like you mentioned here, funding for public broadcasting, which isn't only about Daniel Tiger and Sesame Street. Those things are really important. And by the way, I know you mentioned your kids watch it. My granddaughter Sage, who's 4 years old, watches Daniel Tiger, but she lives in Tucson. She's got other options. Kids that live in rural areas, that might be their only option. But we're trying to restore funding for things like usaid. This is food assistance to school starving kids. And unfortunately, we are struggling in getting these amendments passed because my Republican colleagues, they just want to do what the president wants and that's to strip this funding.
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MSNBC Host
How much? And I want to get more into the details of this, which I think are so important for people to understand. How much longer do you expect this effort to put amendments forward to go.
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Senator Mark Kelly
So well? I've been in the Senate now for four and a half years. We had one of these things that went it started like 8 in the morning and then we took a big break during the day and we went to 1pm the next day. This is not going to go that long. I suspect we'll be done sometime after midnight. But if it was up to me, we would stay here all night and do everything we possibly can to try to restore some of this funding. And it goes beyond just NPR and PBS and usaid. When you think about what this administration did a couple weeks ago, taking away health care from millions of Americans, taking away food benefits often to kids and seniors, to give a big tax cut to the wealthiest Americans, I think it's fair to say it's un American and it's, and it's wrong and it's putting so many people at risk.
- [34:24]
MSNBC Host
No question about it. And one of the ways this, particularly this rescission package is putting people at risk and I know you've been outspoken about the response to disasters in your state is about an emergency alert systems, which I know Arizona is one of the states that really relies on this is funding that could also impact that. Tell me about your concern concern there and what you worry about for rural communities in that regard.
- [34:49]
Senator Mark Kelly
Well, Jen, we've got this devastating fire going on in the Grand Canyon. It's 0% contained. It's done a huge amount of damage to historic buildings and infrastructure. We've got 500 wildland firefighters working around the clock right now to contain this. People's lives and livelihood have been ruined because of this fire. But some people's lives were perhaps saved because they were notified due to emergency alert systems that for some folks in very rural areas, places like around the Grand Canyon or the Navajo Nation in Arizona, which by the way is as big as West Virginia for some of these individuals, this is their only source, source of information. It's our only source of local news. But more importantly, when something bad is going to Happen like a flash flood or tornadoes or a wildfire. This is how these people are notified. This is how they protect their families, how they save their own lives. And this administration is stripping that away from them.
- [35:59]
MSNBC Host
And so many other states are dealing with different kinds of natural disasters, disasters where they rely on the same emergency alert system. Let me ask you, you and your fellow Arizona senator, Ruben Gallagher, have called for an investigation into the federal government's handling of the ongoing Dragon Bravo fire that you mentioned, which is currently still burning on federal lands. What do you think went wrong here and what are you hoping to get back in terms of responses and answers?
- [36:30]
Senator Mark Kelly
Well, the Grand Canyon, that's under the purview of the Park Service. Today I had a conversation with the secretary of Agriculture who has the Forest Service. So full disclosure, different land. And one of the questions I had for her, we'll get to the Park Service in a second, was what's their plan going forward? It's rather dry. It's hot. There's land owned by the Forest Service out there. Do you plan to put out every fire? Sometimes will leave a fire burning, especially when it's caused by lightning because of natural causes. But when it's around, like, really important infrastructure and around people, you got to be really careful about doing that. So we're going to have to find out for the, for the Park Service land, for the Grand Canyon, what policies and procedures did they have in place and then did they have the resources to put on this fire when they needed to put them there to fight it? So there needs to be an investigation, and I'm not one to, you know, make, you know, accusations about, you know, what was the cause for this extensive damage before we have the information. So we need, we need an investigation first. But Ruben Gallego, my fellow senator from Arizona, we've got a lot of questions for them.
- [37:43]
MSNBC Host
Before I let you go. We only have a minute left, but I've been dying to ask you, you, because there aren't many astronauts, actual astronauts in the Senate, just about Sean Duffy overseeing for the moment, NASA. What do you make of that?
- [37:56]
Senator Mark Kelly
Well, I think this is NASA administrator is a big job and secretary of transportation is a big job, and it shouldn't be for one person to do two of these jobs. It's like having a secretary of state also being the national security advisor. Right. By the way, that's the situation where we have I don't think the administration is taking the responsibility seriously of what the gravity of these positions are. Having said that, I'm going to go over tomorrow. And I'm going to talk to Sean Duffy about the challenge that he has over the next several months. I hope the administration appoints a permanent NASA administrator. But I'm going to go over to his office and talk about, from my experience both at NASA, but also here in the United States Senate about what we think some of the priorities need to be for NASA. Right now, NASA is subject to about a 20% budget cut. And today, Jen, I was with the director of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They're looking at possibly losing up to half of their funding. It would be devastating for JPL if that was to happen and that that is the road they are currently going down. Just think for a second that we are at risk of potentially putting jpl, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, out of business. And when you consider over decades, the amount that, that one organization that, you know, embraces science and engineering and technology and the amount of innovation and, and what that has done for our economy and scientific discovery, it would be a tragedy if we put an organization like JPL at serious risk of whether or not they can actually do their jobs. And I really, really worry about that, Jen.
- [39:47]
MSNBC Host
Senator Mark Kelly, I bet you Sean Duffy is doing some studying tonight. I really appreciate you joining us from the Senate. Thank you so much. And I have one more thing to tell you all about when we come back. This is video of federal immigration agents chasing pepper spraying and tackling 48 year old landscaper Narciso Barranco in Santa Ana, California, last month. The agents then pinned Mr. Barranco to the ground and repeatedly punched him in the back of the head before taking him into custody. Mr. Branco's story caught national attention not just because of the extreme use of force against him, but because Mr. Barranco had lived in the United States for more than 30 years and he has three adult sons who are not only all US citizens, but are all US Marines, two on active duty. And tonight we have two pieces of cautiously good news. We sometimes like to give you news good news about Mr. Barranco and others like him. Yesterday, after nearly three weeks in federal immigration prison, Mr. Branco was finally released from ICE custody. After his release, one of his sons put his cell phone on speakerphone so that his dad could say the short message to the public. Thank you for everything, he said. The other piece of cautiously good news we have tonight has to do with the way Mr. Barranco was arrested. Like so many others, Mr. Barranco was picked up by masked federal agents off the street in a city seemingly indiscriminate sweep. For weeks now, we have known that the majority of people arrested by federal immigration agents in Los Angeles have been apprehended in the same way. For weeks we've also known that the majority of the people arrested in those indiscriminate sweeps have no criminal history, just like Mr. Barranco. Last week, in response to a class action lawsuit, a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to stop that kind of indiscriminate sweep in the Central District of California, at least while the merits of the lawsuit make its way through the courts. And today the LA Times is reporting that that order is working. This is what the story says. Since that judge issued her ruling, the indiscriminate raids at Home Depots and car washes have stopped. Now, the Trump administration has appealed the judge's ruling, so the fight is not over yet. But this does appear, at least for now, to be working. Just a little bit of good news that does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.
- [42:21]
Nicole Wallace
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, Nicole speaks with legendary songwriter and music producer Jimmy Jam.
- [42:32]
Jimmy Jam
I treat it like a privilege to be able to do that, to be able to speak to people, to be able to help raise money, help raise awareness. But I get to do it.
- [42:38]
Nicole Wallace
From music the Best People with Nicole Wallace Listen now. For early access, ad, free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.