← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's lies become more OUTLANDISH as he contorts reality to suit himself
00:40:34
Donald Trump and his Republican acolytes defy credulity with their bizarre denial that Trump's page in Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book is somehow a 22-year-old forgery, but as Jen Psaki points out, that isn't the only unbelievable story Trump is trying to push to escape a reality that makes him look really bad.
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- [00:00]
Lifelock/DSW Ad Narrator
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- [00:09]
Jen Psaki
I need a coffee.
- [00:10]
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- [00:30]
Jen Psaki
Ah, DSW Earth. Place of the humble brag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, we'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or@dsw.com let us surprise you. One of the things with all of this news and all the things we've been covering about Donald Trump for the last decade plus that I would note, is that he is supposed to be good at lying. That is supposed to be a thing he is good at. I mean, the conventional wisdom in MAGA land at least, is that if Trump doesn't like something, whether it's a news story or a statistic or an immutable law of physics, he can just say it's fake over and over and over again and eventually the theory is it will go away. Now, I would not have necessarily predicted that the Epstein files, I didn't predict at all. I wouldn't have thought this at all that the Epstein files would be the issue that caught him up in his own blatant lies to a point where it seems to be one of his biggest problems. But eight months into his second term, he is having a very hard time explaining himself. I mean, yesterday we finally got the highly anticipated Epstein birthday book. I was just talking about it with Chris, the one that was first reported on by the Wall Street Journal back in July. That was said to include at the time a body letter from Trump to Epstein, which we didn't see at the time. And Trump was so furious. Remember that a couple months ago about that reporting that he immediately sued the Wall Street Journal and its parent company for defamation, declaring in open court that that birthday letter did not exist. Well, turns out as we all basically all of you watching would have predicted, we knew that would be the case all along, that the letter definitely does exist, as do a whole bunch of other creepy letters to Epstein that were compiled in that birthday book. Now, I should warn you, many of the 200 plus pages which were contributed by Epstein's friends allude to his lifestyle with lewd references and suggestive images and incredibly crude and disgusting jokes. I mean, for example, one contributor expresses birthday greetings to degenerate one, saying, so many girls, so little time. Another contributor wrote a poem noting that despite being an outrage to public decency, Epstein had avoided the penitentiary. One page seems to reference his lifestyle through clip art depicting his plane and women in swimming. You can see that on the screen. A little bizarre birthday note there. Then there is this particularly creepy illustration on the screen right now, appearing to show Epstein giving candy and balloons to female children in 1983 and then receiving massages and other things apparently from those same girls 20 years later. Disgusting. Now, taken together, they suggest, of course, all of this stuff, these were all birthday notes to the same guy, suggest that his behavior was a very open secret. I think we all know that by now. And it was among those horrifying pages that we saw this birthday message appearing exactly as it was first described by the Wall Street Journal and bearing Trump's very distinctive signature. And so Trump, who confidently told the world that this drawing did not exist, of course changed his tune. I mean, immediately the White House and its allies started pushing a new claim. Now, they say that it's not the letter that is fake, but Trump's signature on the letter that is fake. Maybe they sat in a meeting and discussed. That was the thing they should say. Who knows? Never mind the fact that there are multiple, nearly identical examples of Trump's signature on letters he has signed throughout the years. You can see them all on the screen, including ones he himself published in a book called Letters to Trump. Who knew when he had that book put out it would be so apt today? Now, Trump's claim that this signature was fake was so obviously far fetched that by this morning, even Trump himself appeared to have given up selling that particular storyline. When reached by NBC News, Trump did something he almost never does, really can barely count how many times he's done it. He gave a rare no comment. Basically, he said, quote, I don't comment on something that's a dead issue. As if saying it's a dead issue means it's a dead issue. But clearly the issue is still very much alive, because by this evening, Trump was Back to denying that he had anything to do with it.
- [04:53]
Senator Adam Schiff
It's not my signature, and it's not the way I speak. And anybody that's covered me for a long time know that's not my language, it's nonsense. And frankly, you're wasting your time.
- [05:05]
Jen Psaki
I mean, look at J.D. manson, that whole video there. Anyway. And now, as implausible as it may be, that faked signature theory has become kind of the official party line.
- [05:16]
Senator Adam Schiff
From what I see, it's not a signature.
- [05:18]
Governor Wes Moore
I've seen Donald Trump sign a million things.
- [05:21]
Jen Psaki
This doesn't look like his signature to you?
- [05:23]
Governor Wes Moore
Nope.
- [05:23]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Well, I don't know.
- [05:24]
Jen Psaki
I mean, anybody can do a signature.
- [05:26]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
So you think really, someone might have just forged this somehow?
- [05:29]
Jen Psaki
Yeah, I mean, somehow it's so easy to do.
- [05:31]
Senator Adam Schiff
I think the, you know, there's a dispute about whether that's really a signature. So, I mean, I think right now it's just going to be. That's going to be argued back and forth.
- [05:40]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
So you're just going to take the President's word that he.
- [05:42]
Senator Adam Schiff
Well, what does it have to do with anything?
- [05:45]
Jen Psaki
The President says it's not. I take the President's word. What does it have to do with anything he asks? Well, it has to do with a lot of things. I mean, let's just game this out here for a second. The theory James Comer is referencing is that 22 years ago, when Donald Trump was still a Democrat, sending texts to Hillary Clinton, of all people, by the way, when Trump and Epstein were still friends who partied openly together at Mar A Lago, and before Jeffrey Epstein's crimes became known to the public, someone out there somewhere had the foresight to fake Trump's signature and then include it in a book to his close friend in the hopes that it would damage his reputation when he was miraculously sitting in the Oval Office 22 years later, which nobody on the planet predicted, why would anyone believe that? They wouldn't. I mean, Trump's claim that this is all fake as well, pretty laughable. But frankly, that's to be expected with this guy we know, because anytime he encounters a story he doesn't like, he reflexively calls it fake. And those claims are becoming increasingly ludicrous. I mean, in August, Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Remember that? A nerdy career data expert claiming that she had somehow faked that month's jobs numbers to make him look bad. Of course, he provided zero evidence of that, and there's absolutely no proof. And then, guess what? After she was fired the jobs numbers continued to show the same downward trend. So if you follow this Trump conspiracy, the BLS commissioner manipulated data to make him look bad. And then even after he fired her, the new data that also makes him look bad is somehow still her fault. Trump's theory is that the BLS commissioner manipulated data to make him look bad, and then after he fired her. Yeah, again, this is a crazy theory. Surely totally sounds logical. No notes. It's the same thing with crime data. This is what he does over and over again. Trump wants everyone to believe that crime is on the rise so that he can justify sending troops into American cities like here in Washington D.C. like Chicago, like Baltimore. But crime is actually falling in those cities. And so Trump now claims that the police are manipulating the crime rate, accusing them of giving out phony crime stats is what he calls it. He even ordered the Justice Department to investigate whether Police in Washington D.C. are falsifying those crime statistics in an attempt to claim that his DC takeover has been successful. Trump now appears to be making the same the disgusting claim that D.C. police are exaggerating cases of domestic violence to make him look bad.
- [08:11]
Senator Adam Schiff
They said crime's down 87%. I said, no, no, no, it's more than 87%. Virtually nothing and much lesser things, things that take place in the home they call crime, you know, they'll do anything they can to find something. If a man has a little fight with the wife, they say this was a crime. See, so now I can't claim 100%, but we are, we are a safe.
- [08:35]
Jen Psaki
City with all the things that man does, has done. He says that out loud. I mean, when it comes to his lies, though, no claim is too outlandish. We know that the signature in that Epstein book is a fake. The crime data is phony. The economic data is bogus. He will contort reality in any way he can to try to make himself look better. We know that. And his blatant and obvious lies aren't just about protecting his fragile ego. That's part of it. He also uses them to target his enemies. I mean, for months now, Trump has been attacking politicians and government officials he does not like with far fetched accusations of mortgage fraud. It's one of his favorite things he likes to do. To justify those claims, Trump has been relying on his hand picked director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, a guy named Bill Pulte. In just the last few months, Pulte has accused New York's Democratic Attorney General of mortgage fraud. He's accused Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of mortgage fraud. And he's accused Federal Reserve Board Chair Lisa Cook of mortgage fraud, which Trump used as justification in his attempt to fire her. Now, throughout all of that, Pulte has claimed he is just a mortgage fraud avenger and that he will investigate anyone, no matter their political party. He just wants to crack down on mortgage fraud. But reporters have turned up several instances of eerily similar, with some sounding, at least on the surface, worse. Examples of mortgage filing errors from Republicans, none of whom, none of whom are being publicly investigated. First it was Texas's Trump supporting Attorney General Ken Paxton, who claims three residents as his primary residence. Then it was three different members, three different ones, of Trump's own cabinet who all have concurrent primary residence mortgages on multiple homes. Over the weekend, Reuters even managed to obtain mortgage records for Bill Pulte's own father and stepmother, who, and I love this detail, appear to have declared primary residences in two different homes, which sounds an awful lot like what he is calling mortgage fraud when it comes to Democrats. But the Trump administration has not announced investigations into any of those officials, and certainly not, of course, Pulte's own family. Today, the lawyer representing Adam Schiff in his mortgage fraud case pushed back forcefully telling the Justice Department that while there is no factual basis for investigating Adam Schiff, there is ample basis to launch an investigation into Bill Pulte for weaponizing claims of mortgage fraud. And while I doubt we should all doubt the Justice Department is about to launch an investigation of Trump's own appointees, that kind of pushback still matters. Because Trump's attempts to warp reality isn't just about repeating lies. It it's also about intimidating anybody who might expose those lies and hold Trump accountable to the fact based reality the rest of us live in. People like Adam Schiff, who held Trump accountable during his first impeachment and who did it again as a member of the January 6 committee and who is now a United States Senator working to hold Trump accountable on everything from Jeffrey Epstein to the economy to his attempts to take over American cities. That's why Trump's doing it. Senator Adam Schiff joins me here in just 90 seconds. Foreign KPMG makes the difference by creating value like developing strategic insights that help drive M and a success and embedding AI solutions into your business to sustain competitive advantage. Or deploying tech enabled audits to deliver more accurate and transparent outcomes. Brighter insights, bolder solutions, better outcomes. It's how KPMG makes the difference every day. KPMG make the difference. What does possibility mean to you?
- [12:08]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Um, That's a hard question.
- [12:11]
Jen Psaki
Something that you can strive for. I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself. Stuff that you could achieve. I feel it's Sarah. Anything is possible when you're more confident. Shoes are a huge part of that. They are the most important part of my style.
- [12:28]
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- [12:30]
Jen Psaki
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- [12:36]
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- [13:15]
Jen Psaki
As promised. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Okay, as always, there's a million things I want to ask you about, but let me, let me just start with the, the details and the revelations about the birthday book over the last 24 hours. I played the bite of Trump earlier tonight. I think he was trying to make the point that the city is safe a block from the White House. But that aside, he said it's not my signature and not the way I speak. Anybody that's covered me for a long time. No, that's not my language. You have in some ways covered him for a long time is one way of putting it. What do you think?
- [13:48]
Senator Adam Schiff
You know, I think all of the analyses that have come out that compare his signature, which looks virtually identical to his signature on other things, that compare his sketches with other sketches, that compare his language to the same phrases he has used, just shows this is another lie by Donald Trump. This is another illustration of his Roy Cohn philosophy of deny, deny, deny. I guess it's not surprising that he would deny it. But it's such a bold faced lie to say that he never signed, that this wasn't him, it was somebody else. But it is sadly what we've come to expect. But I'm with you. I'm kind of surprised at the staying power of all this when things like shooting a ship out of the water, a Venezuelan ship out of the water might be in the news for a week or two weeks. This Epstein cover up continues and I think it has staying power because they so entrenched this conspiracy theory about the client list and all the rest of that, so entrenched it among their base for years, that now all of a sudden they're having a hard time convincing their base that what they were saying before was all somehow, even though it came from them, a Democratic lie or hoax.
- [15:04]
Jen Psaki
Part of this, I will say I am personally surprised also that it's still going and also that it seems to have expanded in terms of what the scope might looks like. I mean, we're talking about Melanie Stansberry was here last week. She's talking about thousands of victims, potentially. The scope of the coverup seems bigger, at least than I think we knew a couple of months ago. One of the things that I think has also been interesting in that regard is there was reporting over the weekend about officials at JPMorgan and sort of the COVID up of some potentially in the finance industry. Your colleague Senator Wyden has asked the Treasury Department for more information about financial documents. You have more experience than most people in the Senate of like following the paper trail and getting to the bottom of an investigation. How important do you think the finances and that paper trail is to learning more for everybody?
- [15:49]
Senator Adam Schiff
Well, I think it's very important. I mean, generally the rule of investigations is you follow the money. And there was a lot of money going to Epstein and it was going to him in cash and it was going to him in large amounts. It had all the indicia, you know, per this New York Times reporting of people engaged in illicit activity. And you have some very sophisticated bankers who recognize this, who spot this. But at the same time, there's that tension within this big financial institution, J.P. morgan. Well, he makes a lot of money for the bank. So what do we do with this? And I think you just follow the money and see where it leads. There are other leads too that need to be followed up on. One of the things that really stood out to me about this, and as much as Trump lies, there are times also when he's very transparent. And the revelation that this woman who sadly took her life a few months ago, Virginia Giuffrea, yes. Who was a victim of Epstein trafficking, had worked in Mar? A Lago. And Trump's complaint with Epstein by his own admission was that he was stealing women, stealing employees from Mar? A Lago. What did he think Epstein was doing with those young women? He was stealing from Trump's employment. That's a question that I would like answered. I think, well, the American people would like answered in order to determine what's the president's knowledge, what's his culpability, as well as others in the finance area.
- [17:18]
Jen Psaki
So much more to learn from these survivors who have just started speaking out very bravely. I want to switch gears because I just talked about this character Bill Pulte, who I've talked about a bit on this show. And there's a new article that came out in the LA Times just in the last couple of hours about a letter written to the Department of Justice by your attorney, Preet Bharara, who I also know well and has been on the show quite a few times. Now. The piece reports that Bharara wrote, quote, that the Federal Housing Finance agenc inspector general appeared to have asked the Fannie Mae Financial Crimes Investigation Unit to delve into Schiff's mortgage records at Pulte's behest, and that Pulte personally referred the matter to the Justice Department in May before the Fannie Mae unit had even provided him with its findings. So this seems to imply he referred it to the Department of Justice before he even had all of the information. Is there anything else? What else should we know about how he has handled this particular case?
- [18:09]
Senator Adam Schiff
Well, I think that it's pretty clear that Polti is requesting records about the president's enemies to try to weaponize in a public way with false allegations of fraud. And what Pulte may or may not understand is, you know, should they pursue this stuff, he's going to be under a microscope. Should people at Freddie or Fannie or wherever have been participating in his campaign of retribution, all of this is going to come out. And so, you know, Pulte is already having problems now because his own family had more than one primary residence. Three of Trump's cabinet members had more than one primary residence. And I'm not suggesting they did anything wrong, but it makes it so clear that this is all retribution, it's all a political attack on his enemies. And, you know, from my point of view, what people should be concerned about is not whether it's going after me or Letitia James or Lisa Cook, per se, but rather that they're going to use the Department of Justice to try to silence their critics, to intimidate their critics in the same way they're trying to silence media organizations and silence universities and stifle law firms from representing unpopular clients. They want to cultivate this climate of fear. And in that context, I think for me and other elected officials, we need to do what we're urging universities and law firms and the media to do, which is to stand up to this bully and fight back.
- [19:40]
Jen Psaki
There are people like Pulte who seem to be used as a pawn. And obviously he's a willing pawn. I guess we can see he's a willing pawn. I mean, part of also what was written about in this piece that preparer told DOJ that Mr. Pulte's, and I'm quoting from the piece, misuse of his position should be investigated by a non partisan inspector general to determine whether Mr. Poltis conduct should be referred to the Department of Justice for criminal investigation. We're not operating in a normal IG environment, unfortunately. But I assume you agree with him as his client. But how could that play into broader efforts to hold Pulte to account? Is there a system that still is in place right now that will hold him to account if they start looking into it, even though the IG system is a bit out of whack right now?
- [20:21]
Senator Adam Schiff
You know, I don't have much hope at the moment that the Department of Justice will investigate Pulte or the Inspector General's office since they have decapitated all the leadership of any independents in the Inspector General's offices around the federal government. But I think it is important that a marker be put down that those that are engaged in the abuse of government power understand that they will be held to account. And I was pleased to see, for example, the House Oversight Committee Democrats say they're investigating Pulte. They're demanding records from Pulte. And people at those agencies, should they try to destroy those records, are going to be held accountable, if not in this administration, then the next. So it is, I think, important to make the record, to demand the information and to let people know that they will be held accountable.
- [21:16]
Jen Psaki
Acquiescing is no way to make a dictator. Stop asking for more, I think, is the lesson. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you as always, for being here.
- [21:23]
Senator Adam Schiff
Thank you.
- [21:25]
Jen Psaki
Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but guess what? The White House held a doozy of a press briefing today, so I'm going to field some questions. When we come back, answer them accurately.
- [21:38]
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- [21:47]
Jen Psaki
I need a coffee.
- [21:48]
Lifelock/DSW Ad Narrator
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- [22:09]
Jen Psaki
Okay, come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go on. Try something new or different. Good, different. Find shoes that get you at prices that get your budget, and then totally brag about it. CSW, let us surprise you.
- [22:38]
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- [23:14]
Jen Psaki
So, given some of the stories in the news right now, it will not shock you to learn that today's White House press roofing was, well, a little bit crazy. So let's get started with some questions, shall we? Let's start with Weijia Jiang of CBS News. Go ahead, Weijia. Yesterday, the president spoke about D.C. crime and talked about how there was virtually none. And then he expressed frustration about things that take place in the home they call crime. He said, you know, they'll do anything they can to find something. If a man has a little fight with the wife, they say, this is crime. See, now, I can't claim 100%. Exactly what crimes was the president referring to? I mean, Misha, I have no clue what the president was referring to. Now, I would say late verbal disagreement may not be a crime, but assault is most definitely a crime, as is domestic abuse and assault. And the president would certainly know a little bit about that firsthand because he was found liable for sexual abuse by a jury. So he would certainly know that's a crime. But none of that has anything to do with the fact that the crime has been on a downward trend in D.C. since the pandemic. And the National Guard, a group trained for war zones and not for crime fighting in cities, is not the answer to continue bringing the crime rate down, which is probably why they're tasked with picking up trash and shoveling mulch on most days. All right, who's next? Charlie Spearing from the Daily Mail. Go ahead, Epstein.
- [24:41]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Files are back in the news because a lot of Americans feel that Jeffrey.
- [24:46]
Jen Psaki
Epstein's victims never got justice. Does the president care about these victims?
- [24:51]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Do you think he can? Does he want to deliver more justice for them?
- [24:54]
Governor Wes Moore
And is he willing to meet with them?
- [24:57]
Jen Psaki
Well, Charlie, they certainly haven't gotten justice. But when Trump was asked about it tonight, he basically said he hadn't even thought about meeting with them. Do you seriously think, though, he's going to meet with them? I mean, the man has been gaslighting everyone for months when he has the power to release the files himself, which is what they've all been asking for. He also called it a hoax on the same day last week when a number of survivors went out and stood on the Capitol steps and called for action. And he is his little House henchman, Mike Johnson, attempting to block the discharge petition. So he's not planning to deliver more justice for them because he's worried about what that would mean for him. Okay, Javier Vega from Telemundo, what do you got.
- [25:35]
Senator Adam Schiff
About the Epstein case? Would the White House support a professional handwriting expert review of the document released yesterday to prove that it's not the president's signature?
- [25:45]
Jen Psaki
Of course it won't. But honestly, is that really necessary? I think we can all see it with our eyes. Okay, next up, Jackie Heinrich from Fox. Will there be any consequences, so to speak, for Netanyahu doing this, as it sounds against the president's wishes or at least his belief that it was appropriate? Is there going to be any directive from the president to Netanyahu in terms of what's allowed in the future? And also, is there any concern this could jeopardize the Abraham Accords? Okay, so what you're referencing there, Jackie, is, of course, the airstrike that Israel conducted today in Qatar. And when Trump was asked about that tonight, in the same breath, he said Israel didn't tell him in advance, despite wide reporting that today that the White House did know in advance. And he also said that he's never surprised by anything. So make of that completely conflicting answer what you will. But it's pretty clear there are no consequences for Israel. And there's no real point in a directive because Netanyahu and Vladimir Putin, for that matter, are not exactly waiting for instructions from the Trump administration or President Trump himself. Okay, coming up, I'm going to talk with Texas State Representative James Talarico, who just launched his campaign for Senate about his decision to run and what lessons national Democrats can learn from Texas Democrats. That's up next. Today, Democratic Texas state Representative and rising star James Talarico announced his campaign for the United States Senate. Now, if you haven't heard of the former middle school teacher and current Presbyterian Seminary student by now. I suspect you will soon. But Democrats haven't won a statewide race in Texas in decades, and Talarigo will first run in a competitive primary race. But today the campaign begins. Here's part of his launch video.
- [27:43]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
We're underdogs in this fight. We're going up against those billionaire mega donors and their puppet politicians. We're going up against a rigged system, and we're going up against a lot of But I'm a former middle school teacher. I don't scare easily, and Texans don't scare easily.
- [28:08]
Jen Psaki
Joining me now is Texas State Representative James Tallarico. As of today, he is a candidate for the United States Senate. It's great to see you. What a big day you've had. Thank you for taking the time to join me. I just want to start with your announcement video, which I just played a portion of. And one of the things that struck me about it is you're standing in front of a church, which is a very clear choice. You've spoken about the growing Republican efforts in Texas to blur the lines between church and state, such as with the Ten Commandments bill. You've really been somebody that a lot of us have listened to in terms of how to think about these issues. Tell me about why it was so important to you to ground your campaign with the imagery of a church in the background.
- [28:48]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Well, my faith is everything to me. It's why I'm in public service. I didn't start off my career in public service as an elected official. I started as a classroom teacher on the west side of San Antonio. And I got into this service both in the classroom and in public office because my faith teaches me to love my neighbor as myself. And so what I'm trying to do is improve the lives of my neighbors through public policy. You know, bring down prescription drug costs, bring down childcare costs, bring down housing costs for my neighbors. And that's why I'm in this. It's why I'm running for the US Senate, is to love my neighbor as myself.
- [29:30]
Jen Psaki
You said as a part of the interviews you've done around your announcement that you're planning to run an unconventional campaign, which a lot of people say it sounds very good. But one of the things you've mentioned is wanting to do town halls. You said maybe with Republican Tea Party groups so voters can see real discussions between you and others you may disagree with. Tell me more about what that looks like. I mean, are you hoping Republican primary candidates like John Cornyn and Ken Paxton would be open to doing something like that with you, or what does that look like?
- [30:02]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Well, I would love to do it with them. I'm looking forward to prosecuting the case against Kim Paxton and John Cornyn for their corruption. And I think doing that in person and having a lively debate back and forth would be a great way to show the choice that's in front of Texans in this election. You know, Jen, I started off my political career as the underdog. I was running in a. In a Trump district that no one thought I could win. And I, as the underdog, got to run the campaign I wanted to run, which was aggressive and authentic and. And unconventional. At one point, I walked the entire length of my district, 25 miles in one day in the Texas heat, held three town halls along that walk, and livestream the whole thing on social media. And because of that unconventional campaign, I actually flipped that district and won with 51% of the vote on election night. I want to take that same playbook statewide in this election in 2026.
- [31:04]
Jen Psaki
I should note you also have a competitive primary before you get there, so maybe you'll do some with him as well. But let me ask you something else. I mean, as a Texas Democrat, and you and I have talked about this before, you're very familiar with what can and can't be done when you're outnumbered. And there are limitations. You're running for Senate at a time when Democrats in Washington have very few levers of power. I mean, negotiating over the shutdown of the federal government is one of those few levers of power. As you look as kind of an outsider, and you're certainly running as an outsider to what's happening in Washington. Do you think Democrats in D.C. should be open to shutting the government down in a couple of weeks if that's necessary to really use their leverage?
- [31:45]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
I think national Democrats need to learn from red state Democrats, in particular Texas Democrats. This summer, my colleagues and I broke quorum to shine a national spotlight on Trump's redistricting power grab. We're in the minority, but we still know how to use every tool in our toolbox to fight for the people. Sometimes national Democrats use being in the minority as an excuse for inaction. It is not an excuse. We have to use every tool at our disposal to fight for the people of this country. And I hope to bring that Texas fighting spirit to our nation's capital if I'm elected as the next US Senator from Texas.
- [32:27]
Jen Psaki
It sounds like you're saying, but I don't want to put words in your mouth that you think they should use the leverage of a government shutdown to force using their power to force action. Is that the comparison you're making to what Texas Democrats did?
- [32:41]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Yeah. I think all options need to be on the table. But I also will tell you what's better than having to use all the tools in your toolbox is having a majority. It's something we don't have here in Texas yet, and it's something we don't have in the US Senate yet. But this race in Texas may be the turning point in that battle. If we hope to get a majority in the US Senate, we have to win this state in Texas. And listen, Jen, I get it. Texas has broken a lot of people's hearts over the last few years. But the last time we had a Trump midterm, Betro o' Rourke got within two and a half points of a Republican senator. And so I'm hopeful that in this race, with the right candidate, we can make this race competitive and ultimately prevail so that we can secure that Senate majority in 2027.
- [33:30]
Jen Psaki
You are one of the people I thought of a lot over the last couple of weeks in the wake of this school shooting in Minneapolis and where so many of us were trying to make sense of what happened and what should happen from here. And the response from many Republican leaders was to call for thoughts and prayers. Of course, we all respect the value of prayer. I know you certainly do. And then attack anyone who said that is not enough, that thoughts and prayers are not enough. You're a deeply faithful person, as your announcement shows. What is your message to people out there who think prayer absolves them of the responsibility to take tangible action?
- [34:07]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
I believe in the power of prayer. I think prayer can change hearts and therefore change the world. But there is something profoundly cynical about asking God to solve a problem that we're not willing to solve ourselves. We know how to prevent mass shootings in this country. We know what policies work to keep people safe and honor the rights of gun owners. This is not that hard. But big money like the NRA is what's preventing us from making progress on this issue. And I refuse, as a Christian, to stay silent as people use my religion as an excuse for their inaction on this critical issue.
- [34:48]
Jen Psaki
Texas State Representative James Talarico, thank you so much for joining me.
- [34:53]
Texas State Representative James Talarico
Thank you, Jen.
- [34:55]
Jen Psaki
Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but coming up, we're going to talk to Maryland Governor Wes Moore, who's on the Front lines of some very important fights right now, from Republican redistricting to Donald Trump's deployment of the National Guard in American cities. And today he made a big announcement about his own future. Governor Moore joins me next. Last month, Maryland Governor West Moore said that all options were on the table and we talked about a range of things including redistricting in his state. But a lot has changed since then. I mean, for a moment, the partisan redistricting math looked even at Trump's direction. Republicans Texas had passed gerrymandered maps designed to give their party five more seats in D.C. and California Governor Gavin Newsom responded by putting a new map on California's November ballot that if voters choose to pass it, if could give Democrats five more seats. So five new seats for Republicans in Texas, potentially five new seats for Democrats in California. Things were hypothetically, I guess, sort of even until today, because today Missouri's Republican controlled state House passed a new map that would split bright blue Kansas City into three districts. Split. And it is ultimately expected to give Republicans yet another seat in Congress, meaning the math of the national district and the battle we are currently in the middle of would no longer be even. And this battle appears to be far from over. In addition to Texas and Missouri, Trump has been pressuring state leaders in Republican controlled states like Ohio, Indiana and Florida to gerrymander their maps in Republicans favor. And in response, Democrats have been looking to states where they might be able to pick up more seats. States like Illinois, Utah and yes, Maryland. Maryland is a state and we'll talk to the governor about this, where Democrats could potentially pick up one more seat evening out this redistricting fight six to six. It's not always as easy as that. Now, I said a lot has changed in the past two weeks and I meant it. Not only have the fault lines in our national redistricting challenge fight changed, but Governor Westmore has some pretty big news himself. He has been dodging or trying not to answer questions about whether or not he may run for president in 2028 for a long time now. There are a lot of people out there who hope he will run for president in 2028, I should say. But today Governor Moore officially put some of the speculation I would say to bed, announcing his campaign for reelection as governor and saying he plans to serve the full term if elected. Still, speculation will ensue, I promise you. But joining me now is Maryland Governor Wes Moore. Governor Moore, it's great to see you and there's so much to ask you about. Maryland is really at the center of so many things happening, happening in this country. But let me start with redistricting because I just laid out what happened in Missouri today. I know you're focused on Maryland, but you watch closely what happens around the country. You've said to me and to others all options are on the table. What would need to happen for you to push for a redistricting plan in Maryland?
- [37:46]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, it's something that would have to happen through our General assembly where the General assembly would have to go through the process. But I've actually been actively speaking with members of our General assembly and when I say that all options are on the table, I mean exactly that because I think, you know, we all collectively believe that this idea of these, this mid district gerrymandering is a, is a, is a collective challenge on all of our Democratic souls. And frankly, this is something that Congress should take a leadership role on and Congress should actually pass legislation keeping this from happening. But the truth is they're not going to do that. And Donald Trump right now is calling and picking and choosing which states he wants to go through a fair mapping process in a mid decade, in a mid cycle process. And I know that there are some, you know, even including my predecessor, you know, Republican Larry Hogan, who has said, oh no, no, no, Maryland cannot take a look at this. But the truth is, is that they want Democrats to stand on principle while they tell Republicans, rig the rules all you want, that's not the way this is going to work. And if we are going to have a real conversation about what does it mean to have fair maps and fair representation, because right now less than 10% of congressional seats are actually competitive. There is no way that we are just going to sit on our hands while you have certain states that are then going through a process of trying to determine what a fair map looks like.
- [39:10]
Jen Psaki
I think everybody watching probably happened to hear you say nobody should sit on their hands and that you're actively talking to the General assembly, there feels like there's an urgency. But I think it's important for people to know out there every state works differently. I mean, in Illinois, any new map would have to be approved by November 3rd. What is the deadline or timeline in Maryland for a new map to actually have an impact on next year as you're talking to these General assembly members?
- [39:35]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, we start a legislative session in the start of, in the start of January. So unless there was some type of special session process, the start of January is when we will go back into, go back into session. And you're absolutely Right. I mean, there's. There's different states that have different guidelines, different rules, and, frankly, different laws that have to be followed and passed on that. But I know in the state of Maryland, just like other states, these are things that we are actively working on and examining. Because if you look right now, not just in the state of Maryland, but for many states around the country, you do not have competitive districts where in the state of Maryland, similar to many states around the country, the average person will win by 20, 30, and 40 points when they get to the general election. So we know that there is a gerrymandering that has existed in the way congressional districts have already been drawn. And so if in order for us to be consistent, in order for us to truly have a system where people have a say and it's not elected officials picking their voters, but voters picking their elected officials, it is important that if these other states are going to have this process now, that in the state of Maryland, all options are going to be on the table about what that looks like for us as well.
- [40:44]
Jen Psaki
You're dealing with so many things in Maryland, as I mentioned at the top of this introduction, I mean, on Friday, Trump threatened to send the National Guard into Baltimore again, something he's done before. Crime is obviously coming down in the city more. That obviously needs to continue to be done. As you've said many times, you've told me in the past that you will not allow that, basically, that you do not. You would not authorize the Maryland National Guard being deployed in Baltimore. Does that mean you think. I think people are trying to understand the laws out there. Does that mean you think you have the legal authority to override if Trump tries to deploy the National Guard from Maryland in your state?
- [41:21]
Governor Wes Moore
I mean, there are some legal guidelines for the president where the president does have certain authorities when it comes to active duty military. He is the commander in chief of the active duty military. Military. But I'm the commander in chief of the Maryland National Guard. And the president would have to actually go through a legal process for anything to be altered along those lines. But here's also what we know is, unlike the President of the United States, I actually took that oath. And I took an oath when I put on the uniform of this country and when I deployed overseas on behalf of this country. And the oath was that not just that we would defend the Constitution, but also that we would obey all lawful orders from our commander in chief. People cannot forget that one word, lawful. And what the president of the United States is doing oftentimes his threats are not lawful threats. And also, let's be clear about what's actually happening when he's, when he's touting, when he's going to dinner in Washington, D.C. because Washington, D.C. is safe. Now. Do you know who also has had around the same level of decrease of crime during that same period of time? Baltimore. And I can tell you right now, our food here is pretty damn good. So if the President really wants to come out and not just learn about how you can continue to minimize crime without mobilizing the National Guard, our citizen soldiers, and paying a million dollars, over a million dollars a day for them to paint fences, then the President should come down and have a meal in Baltimore where over this period of time that we've had this surge, it is actually having the same level of decrease in crime as what we're seeing in Washington, D.C. before I let you go.
- [42:58]
Jen Psaki
And I'm sure you'll be happy to know we don't have much time left. I know you've said many times you're not running for president, you're focused on governing the state of Maryland. There are a lot of people in Maryland who may be happy to hear that, but a lot of people out there who really want you to run for president. Is there anything between now and 2028 that could change your mind? Anything at all? As for people watching.
- [43:18]
Governor Wes Moore
I am so excited that we had a chance to run for reelection for the people of our state. And listen, I think we have a great story to tell. I think we've been able to jumpstart Maryland's economy. We have gained over 100,000 new jobs since I've been governor, which, by the way, is more than the previous governor, the Republican Larry Hogan gained in eight years. That we've been able to make historic investments in public education and put a significant decrease in our teacher shortage. That we've been able to run a fiscally responsible administration where we turn a deficit into a surplus and gave the middle class a tax cut. We've had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in America for the past two and a half years. And so Maryland is really showing that there is a better way than what we're seeing in Washington, D.C. and if folks want to come learn more and continue to learn more about what we're doing here in Maryland, you should go to westmore.com but I'm excited about having a chance to continue to serve the people of my state, Maryland.
- [44:16]
Jen Psaki
Governor Westmore, I love the smile as you gave your website. I gotta love it. Thank you so much for joining me. That does it for me today. You thank you can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
- [44:31]
Senator Adam Schiff
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace.
- [44:38]
Governor Wes Moore
Each week, Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week, she sits down with activist Stacey Abrams.
- [44:45]
Jen Psaki
My mission is to activate the potential in everyone else. This is our country, this is our fight, and we can win.
- [44:53]
Senator Adam Schiff
The Best People with Nicole Wallace.
- [44:55]
Governor Wes Moore
Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.