← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Trump's offensive post provokes questions about the role of racism in his MAGA support
00:42:46
The panicked response by Donald Trump and his White House support staff to the backlash against his racist social media post suggest Trump miscalculated how much racism the American people are willing to tolerate, which may be a reflection of the bubble in which he lives. Janai Nelson, president and director-counsel of the Legal Defense Fund, and Eddie Glaude, a professor at Princeton University, talk with Michael Steele about the regressive nature of Trump's brazen racism and the extent to which Trump's racism is reflected in attitudes among the general American public.
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- [00:44]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
21 Donald Trump settle in for this one folks, because he's just reminded the country who he really is. And this time even some of his hardcore supporters can't bring themselves to defend him. Because late last night Trump's social On Trump's social media account, he reposted a vile and racist video that depicted our nation's first black president and first lady as apes. It is an unambiguous play on one of the oldest countries, oldest and most tired. Let me tell you how tired it is. Racist tropes at first Trump administration did what they always do, defend the president and attack the press, white House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said in a statement to reporters. Quote, this is from an Internet meme video depicting President Trump as the King of the Jungle and Democrats as characters from the Lion King. Please stop the fake outrage and report on something today that actually matters to the American public. Quick note for the press Secretary. There are no apes in the Lion King and the backlash to Trump's post was swift and severe, especially from House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
- [01:59]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
This disgusting video posted by the so.
- [02:01]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Called President was done intentionally.
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Tyler Redick (Chumba Casino Advertiser)
Donald Trump and his vile, racist and malignant behavior.
- [02:11]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
This guy is an unhinged bottom feeder.
- [02:15]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
President Obama and Michelle Obama are brilliant, caring and patriotic Americans.
- [02:21]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
They represent the best of this country. It's time for John Thune, Mike Johnson and Republicans to denounce this serial fraudster.
- [02:32]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
Who'S sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue pretending.
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To be the President of the United States.
- [02:39]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
But this time, Trump's racism was so overt it was even too much for some of his own party. We saw multiple Republican lawmakers condemn the post. Some of them even called on Trump to apologize. Here's what Senator Tim Scott posted, praying it was Fake. Because it's the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House. President should remove it, end quote. Praying it was fake before this tweet. Surely the senator was well aware of the exonerated five, the birther conspiracy, the Muslim ban shithole countries, all of that fake. I could go on, so could you. But none of those Republican members of Congress who sent out a tweet today had enough courage to say what this three time Trump voter told C span. I am a registered Republican, voted for the President, supported him, but I really want to apologize. I mean, I'm looking at this awful picture of the Obamas. What an embarrassment to our country. All this man does is tell lies. He is not worthy of the presidency. He takes bribes blatantly. And now he's being a racist, blatantly. He's pathetic as a president. And I just want to apologize to everybody in the country for supporting this rotten, rotten man. To note, President left that racist post up for 12 hours, but then he finally took it down. Then the White House tried to claim that an unnamed staffer was responsible for the post. Now, I don't know what's more insulting, that they thought we would believe that Trump didn't post it or that they thought we would be comforted by a random staffer posting from the president's social media account at 11:44pm Even Fox News felt the need to press Trump's White House press secretary about the president's response to all of this.
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Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
It's not just Democrats.
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There are Republican senators, Pete Ricketts, others.
- [04:57]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
Saying, look, we understand it was, but.
- [04:59]
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The president's just come out and apologize.
- [05:01]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
For it and say, look, this was a mistake.
- [05:03]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
Sorry if it offended anyone. Why not?
- [05:07]
Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
Well, look, I won't get ahead of the president, Laura, and he may be speaking with the press later today.
- [05:14]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Okay? She doesn't want to get ahead of the president. Well, moments later, Trump had the opportunity to apologize, and this is what he said.
- [05:25]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
Mr. President, a number of Republicans are calling on you to apologize for that most. Is that something you're going to do?
- [05:32]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
No, I didn't make a mistake. What mistake? He didn't make a mistake. The president also claimed he simply did not see the racist part of that video before it was posted in his name. Folks, I don't know what you. I don't believe him. Remember, Trump left that post up for 12 hours. The white House even defended it as a harmless parody of the Lion King. They knew, and so did he. And look, it's all profoundly disheartening there's no doubt about that. Not that Trump posted it, but that he thought he could post it in an America that would accept it. Folks, that says everything about where this man thinks America is and what he thinks, especially about black men and women. So, yes, there is a lot I could say about Donald Trump, but this moment is so much deeper than him. And today, I found myself thinking about my own childhood. Growing up right here in Washington, D.C. i found myself thinking about the time when my mom and dad couldn't take me to certain parts of this city, certain parks in this city, or shop at certain stores in this city. And today, like so many Americans out there, Donald Trump brought that all back. We got to relive it. We got to relive that time. It feels so foreign, but it's really real. And so today, like many of the folks who grew up with me in this town and many folks around the country during that time, we're reliving it, my own childhood. And that's being projected on me and countless other Americans by the sitting President of the United States. Joining me now, Princeton University professor and Ms. Now political analyst Eddie Glaud and president of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Janae Nelson. Thank you both. I'm just gonna put the question to both of you, speak to me about this moment, because I hope I, at least I tried to capture at the end there what it meant for me as a black man to see the image of the first black president and the first lady displayed that way and how it brought back so much that many of us have already gone through. So, Eddie, I'll start with you, and then, Janee, please share your thoughts as well.
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Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
Well, thank you for your framing, Mike. I mean, we are in a moment where we have to just simply concede that Donald Trump is a racist and that white nationalist occupied the executive branch of the US Government. We know who Donald Trump is. The evidence has been in for a while. The American people who voted for him knew who he was, know who he is. The only difference in this moment is his use of brazen, the brazen use of old tropes of an era that was engaged in overt cruelty. And so we know who he is. And I think it's important for us to understand that to identify him as a racist, to identify the agenda as a white nationalist agenda, is not to deny the greed, is not to deny the grift and corruption, but it's to understand a pillar of what holds this administration up. And so on the 100th anniversary of Black History Month and Negro History Week. Here we are still grappling with the demons of the nation that threatened to choke the life out of this fragile experiment.
- [09:24]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
That nails it for me, Janae, because we've seen the president target African Americans before, and we know profoundly what that has sounded like and looked like with. Without any repercussions. So what kind of a reaction did you think he hoped for from this post?
- [09:46]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
Well, I think we all know that he does a lot to distract. He does a lot to feed red meat to his base of followers. And I think that's exactly what this was. This was an attempt to be silly, to dehumanize, to ostracize, to minimize the accomplishments of black people in particular. You know, he has a particular venom that he reserves for black people and black communities, that he deploys when he feels desperate, when he feels like he cannot rise to the occasion, when he's confronting, in particular people who defy everything that this country wants us to believe about black people. That is negative. And you cannot assail the Obamas on any. Any front. Certainly he can't. There was. There was no comparison between them and their excellence. But there's no need to have to, you know, rehabilitate their reputation. It is. It is irrefutable what is really concerning. And I have to confess that I'm so glad to be able to talk about this, because when I woke up to this nonsense this morning, my first reaction was, I'm not going to even dignify this with any response. I'm going to ignore it because it's so silly.
- [11:04]
Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
And.
- [11:05]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
But that's dangerous, right? We cannot become numb to this. We cannot normalize it. We cannot come to accept the fact that there is a person occupying the White House who is abusing government property and abusing this system to denigrate black people and many others. We cannot stand for that and act as if it's business as usual. As much as we know is it is frequent from him, it is his want to do this, we just cannot normalize it. At the same time, we cannot be distracted by so many other atrocities that are happening at his behest.
- [11:45]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
And that is such an excellent point. And I keyed in on two words, Eddie, that Janae used particular venom, a particular venom that he reserves for black female journalists, a particular venom that he reserved for, you know, the Central Park Five, a particular venom he reserved for a number of African Americans who got in his way. And in the end, he thought that, well, he could just assuage the black community by, you know, offering up some gold lame sneakers because after all, we value that more than our own dignity. Which led me to this point, in listening to the Republicans come out today in response to this, my estimation, in listening to a lot of it, this was a big time to cover their own ass because they're in a heated political contest in their district, as much as they don't want to admit it. Yeah, they may not have a whole lot of black folks in their districts, but they do have a whole lot of white folks who are bothered by what they heard. As we played with the three time voter of Donald Trump coming in, what's your make and take away from this? I mean, you know, the party piece is that's shot and gone. But when you look, when you look at now how we should contextualize when we hear these folks come out and basically do the thoughts and prayers in this instance, how should we be reading this going forward? Because at the end of the day, actions mean a lot, right? You know, so the words, not so much.
- [13:22]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
I think, Michael, what we saw and what we've heard is this attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube. You know, part of the post 1960s consensus is that a certain kind of blatant racism was banished from American political debate. And what you had instead were dog whistles. We could talk about busing, we could, you know, we could talk about, you know, crime and urban policy, and we knew all in each of those instances who they were talking about. But for the last decade or so, we haven't been engaged in dog whistles. We've been listening to foghorn. And we know that what we've seen is that there's been a blatant and explicit appeal to grievance, to white grievance. We know that there's been an explicit kind of motivation behind our contemporary politics that folk want to be white without judgment. They want all the benefits of whiteness without judgment. And so now to try to revert back to the old consensus of no, we can't talk this way, we can only signal through DEI policies, through admission policies, right? Through great replacement theory that drives the immigration policy and the like. Now you want to go back to dog whistling? No, no, no, no, no, no. What we see here is the blatant hypocrisy of the Republican party that has signed off on a white nationalist agenda for the last decade. And you know this, Mike, because you, Mike, you, you've been right there. You've seen it happen, seen it happen.
- [14:53]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Up close and personal many, many times. And what was frightening, the other piece of this, Janay, about this video and also about what has led up to this moment where the president talks about promoting his election conspiracies. You see this, as, you know, at least I do, as an admission that his plan is to nationalize elections. It is no longer tacit. It is not benign. It is real. I don't know how many different ways we can tell people they coming for the 2026 election. Y' all come on now. And so the NAACP, the legal defense Fund, the work that a lot of groups out there are doing, talk a little bit about what the coordination has to be in the face of this full frontal, you know, forward motion towards taking the election because they don't think they can be stopped at this point. Stephen Miller on down, they all believe this is within their grasp.
- [15:57]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
Yeah. Well, the first thing I think we need to be thinking about is the 77 million people who voted for him. Where are they right now in their journey in this country? In the 250th anniversary since the Declaration of Independence? Is this the future America that they want to inhabit? And there's a real question, because while they may want, as my brother Eddie says, they may want the whiteness without the responsibility, they, with that are also getting a grifter in the White House. They're also getting fleeced in front of our very eyes. We're also subject to ICE occupation and in some cases, National Guard occupation in our cities. So the trampling of state and local rights, you're seeing the killing, kidnapping and wanton assault of innocent Americans and residents at the behest of, of Trump's henchmen and women. So these are, these are the, the, the things that come along with betting on and investing in a white supremacist grifter who has no morality. So what organizations like LDF are doing is we are defending civil rights. We are in the courts suing this administration. We are disrupting much of their unconstitutional and illiberal actions at the same time that we are planting seeds for the future on the other side of this administration, because there will be a future. And the question is, are those 77 million who voted for him ready to occupy it in a very different way? Are we ready to be part of a country where power is shared, where everyone has dignity, where we can exist as a multiracial democracy and not in a circling, fire, circling firing squad? We've got to accept the reality that this country is a multiracial, multi ethnic democracy. If we keep it, and that is our job, we can't just blame it on Trump because we know who he is. He's showed us who he is many times. It is on us. And anyone who continues to invest in this administration, you know, the foolishness is just too blatant.
- [18:16]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
So, Eddie, on that point, I take to heart what Janae just said, but here's where I land. I don't know if folks are ready to do that, because they have largely been complicit in the whitewashing of the black American story in this country. The stripping down of monuments and the storylines what we saw happen, see happening at national parks. We can't talk about the racism that is in the bloodstream. We can't talk about the Jim Crow era. We can't show the results of that. So how do we turn this corner right now when that part of that narrative, which helps to inform, educate, and to move us forward, is not a part of the conversation?
- [19:09]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
Well, you know, I think this is really important. We just saw in February 3rd, the White House issue its statement about Black History Month, and we saw all of the ugliness, all the attempts to redact the darker side of the nation. But I want to be clear, black history was powerful before the state recognized it in 1976.
- [19:29]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
Mm.
- [19:31]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
We had our alternative commemorative commemorative calendar around freedom with January 1st, when we celebrated the abolition of slavery. July 5th, when we celebrated the abolition of slavery in New York. You know, August when we celebrated August 31st, when we celebrated West Indian Emancipation Day.
- [19:46]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
Juneteenth.
- [19:47]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
Right. We have Negro History Month, founded Negro History week, founded in 1926, when the Klan was supposedly to hold its convocation at the center of the 150th celebration in Philadelphia. We told our story anyway. The thing that bothers me, Mike, is that in this moment, to answer your question directly, we're gonna have to tell our story, because black history doesn't require the state to recognize it for it to be meaningful for us to teach our children. But I want to say this, though. Here we are in the 250th year, and we're still having to raise our babies in the midst of this shit.
- [20:22]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
There we go.
- [20:24]
Eddie Glaude (Princeton Professor, Political Analyst)
And all the other things we could talk about in terms of the politics. But our responsibility has always been to get our babies to the other side, and we're in the midst of this in the 250th year of the nation. Abidam.
- [20:40]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Abidam. And so, folks, what do you say to your baby when they See that image that the president put out about the first black president and the first black first lady of the country. Eddie Glaude, Janae Nelson, thank you both. Really appreciate it. Coming up, Donald Trump's attempts to sow doubts in the midterms were concerning. Enough already, folks. His FBI just did something that one election official is calling beyond crazy. Michael Feinberg actually knows what it's like to work inside Cash Patel's FBI and he joins me here at the table. Coming up next.
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Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
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- [23:38]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
Hmm.
- [23:39]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Nevada Secretary of State told crooked media, quote, unquote. It's the strangest thing in the world that the FBI is reaching out to us and trying to coordinate election security. It's never happened in the past. It was just beyond crazy. Joining me now is Michael Feinberg. He's a former assistant Special agent in charge at the FBI. Michael, it's beyond crazy. Have you ever heard of such an invitation being sent out before an election?
- [24:11]
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So I'm going to disappoint you with my initial answer, but trust me, I will get back to a place of similar concern. The FBI has had a senior election executive for quite some time now. Anytime there has been a major cycle, and it's not a particularly nefarious position, it's simply a very senior ranking intelligence analyst from headquarters who is in charge of coordinating all potential threat streams and crimes that may occur around the context of elections. So we're talking about some things like public corruption, attempts to stop people from voting, all the way to a potential terrorist attack or foreign interference in the electoral process. None of that sounds crazy. In fact, it's the sort of thing you want the FBI to be doing. I'll confess I'm a little mystified as to the Nevada Secretary of State's comments because, you know, for at least the last few years I was in the FBI, this was a regular occurrence during any election cycle. The problem, though, is that everything the FBI has done under this director prior to this message going out undermines the very things that the FBI is supposed to be protecting in this role. So, yes, you want a senior executive who is going to be looking at foreign interference in a US election. But if that's the case, you don't also disband the FBI's foreign influence task Force. You don't disband the Office of Director of National Intelligence, Foreign Malign Influence Center. You don't reassign people at other intelligence agencies away from foreign influence. You don't massively cut the number of staff at cisa, which guards American electoral infrastructure. And if you care about violent crimes centered around the electoral process, you don't pardon every January 6th insurrectionist. If you care about public corruption, you don't appoint somebody who allegedly took a $50,000 bribe in a kava bag to a position of importance. This message in itself is not particularly concerning to me, but literally everything else that has happened within The FBI since January 20, 2025 makes me think that they may Take this normal, expected sort of occurrence and somehow make it malevolent?
- [27:05]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Well, I think the malevolent part of it, Michael, is the fact that the president has already been on record about. He wants Republicans to take control of elections. He wants to nationalize elections. They raided the election facilities in Georgia, and they're now trying to get those ballots back. So I think from that standpoint, there should be. If I was a secretary of state, I know I'd be concerned. But I hear what you're saying about this is kind of what they do. But clearly, I think when you put it in that context of what the president's expectations are for this upcoming election, having this type of call could raise some concerns and some flags. Which leads me to ask the question, what then does should one expect on this call, if this is the normal course? Clearly, I don't know. You're saying they've had these types of calls in the past where this individual and the FBI reached out and said, hey, we're all going to get. And we're going to have a towel down, bring you lunch, and we're gonna talk about how we're gonna protect the election, and you can give us updates on your resources and your progress. Is that what has happened before? And do you really think that's what this call is gonna be about?
- [28:25]
Tyler Redick (Chumba Casino Advertiser)
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- [30:19]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Right, right. Well, yeah, exactly. Michael Feinberg, thank you, my man. I appreciate you. Coming up, Donald Trump said he would release billions of dollars in federal funding if. If he got an airport and a train station named after him. Guess what? Tonight, a federal judge ordered him to release that funding. Neal Katiel is the former acting U.S. solicitor general. He is also the lead counsel for the plaintiffs who have been trying to get this money flowing. And Neil's going to be with us next. Stick around.
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- [32:33]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Last night, we learned about Donald Trump's latest quid pro quo. In exchange for releasing federal funds for the largest ongoing infrastructure project in the country. Right now Trump demanded that New York's Penn station and Washington DC's Dulles Airport be renamed after him. The massive construction of a new rail tunnel connecting New York and New Jersey was set to grind to a halt today over the pause in funding. But tonight we learned that the work on the tunnel project can proceed well, at least for now. A federal judge just issued a temporary restraining order blocking the Trump administration from withholding that $16 billion of funding. Let's get into it with our friend Neil Kottel, former acting Solicitor General and lead counsel for the Gateway Tunnel. Neil, congratulations. Kinda, I think getting this thing to a point where it means 1,000 union workers will be able to continue working on this project, at least for now. What do you expect comes next?
- [33:37]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
Yeah. So first of all, Michael, it's great to see you and we are really glad tonight to see the court stop the President's, I don't know, tunnel tantrum. As you say, this is the nation's largest construction project. It's been years in the making. Just to put it together, it's so critical for New York City, for New Jersey, for the state of New York, more generally in the economy. The tunnel is 161 of the tunnels being repaired is 116 years old and hasn't had much in the way of repairs. So this is really important stuff. And so the New York and New Jersey attorney generals went into court in New York and said, hey, you gotta resume funding for this. There's literally holes in the ground. There's 1,000 construction workers who don't know if they're gonna have their job next. I mean, it is just a terrifying amount of uncertainty and not over some minor thing, but the biggest project in the country. So the federal judge tonight agreed with the states and said, absolutely, the funding must resume.
- [34:40]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Are you surprised by how quick the judge responded with his order?
- [34:45]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
I am not. I mean, I think here, you know, this is truly the most lawyers talk about irreparable harm. What does that mean? That means like, you gotta act now, otherwise you can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube. And that's really, you know, truly this is like a paradigmatic case for that. So I'm not surprised to see the judge move that quickly.
- [35:04]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
So it's pause for now. And so just for folks out there, this is the lawyer to lawyer conversation. We're kind of letting you in on it. So you guys understand how this process is really going to unfold here because there's going to be an appeal because that's what Trump does when he loses, what do you think happens at that level? And does this get as far as the Supreme Court? And should we or you be worried about that?
- [35:28]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
So, first of all, I really do hope that the government doesn't appeal. I mean, I think here the judge's ruling was very clear on the equities of this and the need for such a construction project. I mean, the government signed all of these contracts and is now just trying to walk away from them. And the rationale changes you adverted to some of the rationales being floated today for why the project is being canceled. I mean, our nation's construction companies, our nation workers depend on the word of the United States. And 2 billion billion has already been spent on this project. And now they just want to hold it up for all sorts of reasons. So if they do appeal, then I suspect that case brought by New York and New Jersey, they'll fight that appeal. Separately, we have filed the Gateway Corporation, the entity that's building this whole thing, has filed a lawsuit in Washington, D.C. in the Specialized court for breach of government contract claims. So it's in two different courts. That's just like the tariffs litigation, in which there was specialized trade court that had one suit and then a regular federal court had the other done the exact same pattern. Here is what we did in the tariffs case to make sure that the courts will ultimately hear this issue. And if it goes to the Supreme Court, we are very confident in our legal position.
- [36:50]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
But in that tariffs case, the court hasn't indicated yet exactly when they plan to rule on it. So it's just kind of sitting in legal limbo. What's the latest on that?
- [37:02]
Neal Katiel (Former Acting U.S. Solicitor General)
Yeah, so I argued that case. So I just want to, you know, I have to be quite circumspect about a pending case before the United States Supreme Court. I argued it on November 5th. You're absolutely right. There has not been a decision yet, which isn't unusual in a case of this magnitude. It often does take months. So, you know, I suspect we will have a decision sometime soon. But, you know, time will tell.
- [37:25]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Yes, time will tell, my friend. But I'm glad you are the one with the watch keeping track of it. Neal. Katiel, thank you so much. And it's good to see you, buddy. Really is good to see you, my friend. Up next, if you want to understand what a complete mess Donald Trump's Justice Department is right now, well, look no further than Minnesota. We'll be right back. So this week, a Justice Department lawyer shocked the legal world by asking a federal court in Minnesota to hold her in contempt so she could get some sleep. She was so overwhelmed, folks, by the caseload that Trump's immigration crackdown in Minnesota had created, she literally asked the judge to send her to jail so she could stop working and sleep. Now, as shocking as that story is, it is just the tip of the iceberg. You see, while the office's caseload is skyrocketing with hundreds upon hundreds of new cases coming out of Trump's immigration crackdown, there's also been a massive wave of resignations at the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. This week, sources inside the office told CBS News that the office now only has 17 assistant U.S. attorneys, down from 70. That's seven zero. So more work and less people to do it. Oh, and that DOJ lawyer who asked to be held in Katip because of how overwhelmed she was. She was supposed to be the office's backup. She was not a career DOJ lawyer. She worked for ICE. She volunteered to help out at the Minnesota U.S. attorney's office as a sub. And then after receiving no orientation or training at all, she got handed 90 cases. That lawyer said that prior to her outburst in court, she had already tried to quit. She filed resignation papers, but was asked to stay when her bosses could not find anyone to take her job or replace her. The Trump administration has created a completely, a completely unnecessary crisis in the courts of Minnesota. And today Ms. Now can report that the situation has gotten so bad that the Trump administration has sent military lawyers, jags to work ICE related cases in Minnesota. That's military lawyers in civilian federal district court court. Let's talk about that and what it could mean. Joining me now is Barbara McQuaid, former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. First off, can you help us understand the difference between a military lawyer and a JAG lawyer and the kind of lawyer who would typically staff a U.S. attorney's office?
- [40:21]
Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
Well, in most U.S. attorney's offices, there are no military lawyers whatsoever. But you do see these JAG attorneys who are military lawyers sometimes get appointed as Special Assistant U.S. attorneys on Military bases. So, for example, crimes that occur at Fort Knox in Kentucky, those are federal offenses. Oftentimes, the defendants or the parties involved in those cases are themselves military members. And so in those instances, you would see a JAG officer, military lawyer appointed as a special assistant U.S. attorney to handle those cases. They have the authority, Michael, to show up to in any court around the country. But typically, that is how they are used in most cases, because in most U.S. attorney's offices. You have career trained professional people who handle the day to day cases that relate to civilian offenses.
- [41:19]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Yeah. And that's the part I really want to get to with you because, Barbara, because at the end of the day, I think there should be some genuine concern about having JAG officers prosecuting these cases in civilian courts because they come from a different set of rules, they come from a different set of processes and the way defendants behave and are treated and all of these pieces that go into a civilian case. How disruptive is that, or could that be for the cases that they're handling, but especially for the 17 attorneys who are left in that office?
- [41:57]
Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
Well, you raise a couple issues, I think, Michael. One is sort of the cultural issues of being a JAG officer versus being a military lawyer. Perhaps they can adapt, but also the lack of training to appear in this particular kind of court. JAG officers are well trained, they're competent people and they can handle their work. But that work is different from what occurs in civilian courts. I think the great example you just gave was this ICE lawyer who got assigned over as a special assistant U.S. attorney to handle the work of the U.S. attorney's office. Now certainly if they've gone from 70 AUSAs to 17, they are in crisis mode. And Michael, just to emphasize, I know you know this, but your viewers, the job of an Assistant U.S. attorney is a really coveted legal position among legal jobs. They're highly competitive. It's very difficult to get these. They are the dream job for many people. But the idea that we've seen so many of the AUSAs in Minnesota resign rather than do the kind of work they're being asked to do. And I think the example you just gave of this lawyer who has the judge to please hold me in contempt just so I can get some rest is really indicative of what's happening there. One is just being overworked, I think, is one thing. Another, though one of the things I read the entire transcript that she that you quoted from and she talks about how she is trying very hard to provide the court with the information it has requested, but her client ICE won't provide her with information. She's trying to get information about detainees. She can't find out where they are. Just when she finds out where they are, she later finds out that they got moved an hour before she filed her brief, unbeknownst to her. And so it is the kind of thing that I can imagine is incredibly aggravating for assistant U.S. attorneys. And then of course, there may even be orders that People just don't want to fulfill. We know there was reporting that the federal government was not interested in investigating the shooter of Renee Goode, but was interested in investigating Renee Goode and her widow. And over that, some people decided, I am done. I am not going to participate in that. So for all of those reasons, we are seeing these career trained professional assistant U.S. attorneys leave and now being replaced by people who will, I'm sure, try their hardest to do their job well, but just lack the training and experience to do this particular kind of work. I think we're just going to see more of this kind of thing.
- [44:21]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Well, that begs the question, how does this get fixed? I mean, this is Minnesota. I mean, we haven't seen what potentially could be coming in other jurisdictions and parts of the country, given the level of incompetence that's being put in place here. So how does this get fixed? How does the administration deal with this when they seem have no clue as an example of what the process is? How do they deal with that? How do we deal with it?
- [44:54]
Barbara McQuaid (Former U.S. Attorney)
Yeah, it's really disturbing to see what was just a year ago the crown jewel of our federal government, the Department of Justice, just run into the ground. I think there are a number of options. One is you can impeach Pam Bondi and put an Attorney General in place who upholds the standards of the Department of Justice. One of the things that this judge complained of is to say, of course the executive branch can enforce immigration law. That's what you do. But you can't have such a huge operation where you're arresting so many people that you don't have the ability to process them and give them the due process the Constitution requires. So it's not just what they're doing, but how they are doing it. And so next week, Pam Bondi will be appearing before a congressional committee, I think, asking her some of these questions and exposing this to the public. You know, Minnesota was not in crisis until the federal government created one. And so I think that for the public to understand what's happening there and who's at fault, there is something that Congress has a role in playing, in revealing to the public.
- [46:00]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Ah, yes. And Pam, bonding next week. Gonna be good stuff. Barbara Quaid, I know you're gonna be all over it. We thank you for spending time with us tonight. We'll be right back, folks. Well, that's gonna do it for me tonight.
- [46:20]
Janae Nelson (NAACP Legal Defense Fund President)
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- [46:28]
Michael (Host/Interviewer)
Kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us. Are you my dad now? No, sorry. I do basic connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie combination.