Trump's Selective Hearing: The Impact and the Outrage

Summary

Podcast Title: The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC
Episode: Trump's Selective Hearing: The Impact and the Outrage
Release Date: April 15, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Briefing with Jen Psaki, Jen delves into President Donald Trump's recent controversial remarks and policies, examining their impact on the American populace and the ensuing outrage. The discussion spans a range of critical issues, including Trump's stance on deporting American citizens, the economic ramifications of his tariff policies, and alarming instances of political violence.

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2. Trump's Comments on Deporting American Citizens

Jen Psaki opens the discussion by addressing Trump's most explicit statements regarding the deportation of American citizens. She emphasizes the gravity of these comments, labeling Trump as an "aspiring dictator" and highlighting the threat they pose to the nation's democratic fabric.

Jen Psaki [03:15]: "Trump's comments are a stark reminder that aspiring dictators are speaking from a position of weakness, not strength."

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3. Economic Impact of Trump’s Tariffs

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the confusion and instability wrought by Trump's tariff policies. From conservative Republicans to Wall Street billionaires and rural farmers, many express bewilderment and frustration over the unpredictable nature of the tariffs. Psaki cites a recent CBS YouGov poll indicating a seven-point increase in Americans perceiving the economy as worsening and attributing their financial struggles to Trump's policies.

Jen Psaki [06:45]: "Trump is underwater, losing popularity faster than any new president has in recent history."

She further discusses how sectors like North Carolina farming are directly impacted, with farmers facing uncertainty in planting decisions due to fluctuating access to foreign markets.

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4. Case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia and Potential Contempt Orders

The episode shifts focus to the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a legal U.S. resident deported to El Salvador mistakenly. The Supreme Court mandates his return, but Trump’s administration remains defiant, raising fears about the deportation of American citizens without due process.

Jen Psaki [10:30]: "Trump's administration is preparing to go after more citizens, mirroring their current actions with undocumented immigrants."

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5. Interview with House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries

Jen interviews Hakeem Jeffries, House Democratic Leader, regarding the Garcia case. Jeffries outlines the Democratic strategy to hold administration officials in contempt of court to enforce the Supreme Court's directive.

Hakeem Jeffries [16:05]: "We plan to intensify pressure on the Trump administration to comply with the Supreme Court's directive."

He emphasizes the importance of shaping public sentiment and leveraging Congressional powers to halt Trump's non-compliance.

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6. Allegations of Congressional Corruption

Psaki brings up reports of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene engaging in suspicious stock trading prior to the announcement of tariff pauses. She underscores the need for legislative reforms to prevent stock trading by sitting members of Congress.

Hakeem Jeffries [24:30]: "We need to change the law so that sitting members of Congress cannot trade stock, period. Until then, we must highlight why this is problematic."

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7. Interview with Former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara

Preet Bharara, former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, joins the conversation to discuss the feasibility and implications of holding Trump administration officials in contempt.

Preet Bharara [33:39]: "Contempt is an option available to the court, and if the administration continues its defiance, it must be explored."

Bharara elaborates on the legal mechanisms and the potential unprecedented nature of holding high-ranking officials in contempt, emphasizing the court's increasing patience with the administration's disregard for rulings.

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8. Arson Attack at Governor Shapiro’s Residence

The episode transitions to a harrowing report on an arson attack at Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence. Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, also a gubernatorial candidate, discusses the rise in political violence and its personal significance to her, having faced similar threats in the past.

Jocelyn Benson [43:17]: "This is an attack on a family committed to serving all people. It’s deeply disturbing and reminiscent of the hateful rhetoric we've seen rise over the years."

She calls for unity and condemnations from all leaders to combat the growing trend of political violence.

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9. President Trump's Response to the Arson Attack

Jen highlights President Trump's minimal and self-centered response to the arson attack, criticizing his failure to address the victims and the broader issue of political violence.

President Trump [40:53]: "The attacker was not a fan of Trump. It was probably just a whack job."

Benson expresses disappointment in Trump's inability to use the incident as a unifying moment.

Jocelyn Benson [44:35]: "He made it about himself when it should have been about the people of Pennsylvania and the governor."

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10. Conclusion

Jen Psaki wraps up the episode by reiterating the critical issues discussed, emphasizing the need for collective action against Trump's divisive policies and the alarming rise in political violence. She underscores the responsibility of all leaders and citizens to uphold democratic values and protect the nation's integrity.

Jen Psaki [46:14]: "We have to be better than this. Let’s come together to reunite and define who we are as Americans through unity, not division and hate."

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Key Takeaways

• Trump’s Threats: Trump's overt threats to deport American citizens signify a dangerous overreach of executive power, undermining democratic institutions.

• Economic Turmoil: His unpredictable tariff policies are causing widespread confusion and economic instability, impacting diverse sectors and eroding public support.

• Legal Battles: The Garcia case exemplifies the administration's defiance against judicial directives, potentially setting a precedent for contempt actions against high-ranking officials.

• Political Corruption: Allegations against Congress members like Marjorie Taylor Greene highlight the urgent need for legislative reforms to ensure ethical governance.

• Rise in Political Violence: The arson attack on Governor Shapiro underscores the escalating political violence, necessitating a unified and strong condemnation from all leaders.

• Leadership and Unity: The episode calls for collective action and unity to counteract divisive policies and restore integrity to American leadership.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from The Briefing with Jen Psaki episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the pressing issues investigated and the standpoints presented by key figures.

Transcript

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[Anchor]

Okay, the first thing I should tell you tonight is that House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries is standing by. I'm going to talk to him in just a few minutes. There's always a lot to talk with him about, but tonight, the list is very especially long. I mean, for starters, today Donald Trump made his most explicit comments yet about his openness to deporting American citizens. And yes, his intention is to scare you. And yeah, the things he's saying are scary. I'm not going to minimize that. But his comments are also a reminder that aspiring dictators, of which he is one, who threaten to deport their own citizens, are not speaking from a position of strength. They are speaking from a position of weakness. And the cracks are showing all over the place right now. And so tonight, I actually wanted to start in one of the places where the cracks are the biggest and most obvious, and that's the economy where Trump's on again, off again. Tariffs have everyone from conservative Republicans to Wall street billionaires to even rural farmers saying, what in the world is that guy doing? And we are seeing that sentiment very clearly in the polls, too. I mean, in a new CBS YouGov poll that was released just yesterday, a majority of Americans said the economy is getting worse. And a growing number of Americans say Trump's policies are making them financially worse off. You can see the chart on the screen right now, and you can see it shows a seven point jump on that question from just last month. The majority of Americans are also against Trump's tariff and trade policy. But the news gets even worse for Trump. Get a load of this. When the people in this poll were asked who would benefit most from Trump's tariffs, three quarters of Americans said the wealthy and 71% said large corporations. I think everybody knows how popular the wealthy and large corporations are. Not very popular at all. Just imagine how well it's going to sit with the majority of Americans when Congress returns in May, just in a couple weeks, and focuses all their time on cutting taxes for the wealthy and large corporations, which is what they're going to do. But the upshot is this. Trump is underwater. He's losing popularity faster than any new president has in recent history, other than, well, of course, Donald Trump in 2017. But it's really not a mystery as to why. I mean, weirdly, not much has changed since James Carville proclaimed that one of the core messages for a presidential campaign was, it's the economy, stupid. And right now, Trump's actions have created an enormous amount of confusion and instability in the economy. I mean, he single handedly issued a decree that Chinese imports will get tariffs of 20%. Wait, no. 104%? No, 125. Hang on now it's 145%. Oh, but smartphones and computers are exempt, at least for now. You can't make plans around that. No one can, whether you're putting together a household budget or a business plan for a small business or a huge company. And some of the sectors that are being hit the hardest are the ones that elected him to begin with. Sectors like farmers in North Carolina. I mean, this was in the Washington Post this morning, quote, midway through the spring planting season. Farmers in a state whose electoral votes went to Trump in the past three elections are struggling with the unpredictability of his tariffs, which threaten their access to foreign markets and add a heavy dose of uncertainty to an already capricious undertaking. Should they plant more soybeans? Well, most of that crap gets sold to China. But maybe not now. I guess whenever you do to plant now, you have to hope Trump doesn't kill the foreign market for that crop before you harvest in a few months. That's how they have to plan. Just like any business, it's that kind of uncertainty that has absolutely pounded the stock market, a huge number of industries, and also Americans, 401k accounts. But here is another thing that stuck out to me about the complete mismanagement of all of this by the Trump administration. They seem to be a state in some sort of a state of aloof denial about the impact this chaos and uncertainty is having on real people. I mean, remember, according to Trump's Treasury Secretary, nobody's paying any attention out there.

[Greenlight]

What is your message to Americans who want to retire right now and who've just seen their lifetime savings drop significantly.

[Kristen]

Kristen, I think that's a false narrative. Americans who want to retire right now, the Americans who have put away for years in their savings account, I think the don't look at the day to day fluctuations of what's happening.

[Anchor]

I mean, the thing is, that's not true, obviously. But the New York Times did something that's pretty interesting just to sort of illustrate this point. They asked Americans near retirement what they thought of Bessens comment that I just played and 400 people responded. People like Becky O' Hara of Havertown, Pennsylvania, who said, quote, we are definitely looking at the fluctuations and likely adding time to our need to work timeline. Mr. Besant is mistaken. Or Nancy London of Plain City, Ohio, who said this, I have Parkinson's disease and I'm unable to work in any capacity. Naturally, I closely watch how the market performs on a daily basis. Or Barbara Costanzo of Milwaukee, who is even more blunt, saying, quote, they have no idea how ordinary people live. Same with Cleo Larue of League City, Texas, who said, of course I'm watching. I'm disheartened that he and President Trump seem to be treating my hard earned savings in such a cavalier manner. And people like Karen Walworth of Beaverton, Oregon are understandably worried about how this impacts her retirement plan. She said, I wanted to retire and still wait until 70 to collect Social Security. And that's a delicate balance if the value of my investments has dropped significantly. And I think many people can sympathize with Gene Teague of Austin, Texas, who said this. Yes, I'm checking. It's a compulsive behavior right now, though I haven't looked yet today. Why? I do not know. Please no tariffs on Xanax. Many people see Eugene. The point is everyone's paying attention. Wall Street's paying attention. Republicans are paying attention. Farmers in North Carolina are paying attention. Of course they are. It impacts their businesses. Basically every American in every corner of the country is paying attention. The whole tariff saga is hurting Trump politically because it is hurting so many Americans directly. This is obviously breaking through because it affects everyone. Now, the conventional wisdom says that won't happen on other issues. Trump's taking a hard line on like say, immigration. But I think in this moment that's actually wrong. I mean, I get like, at first, at first glance, people might not universally feel that the story of Kilmar Abrego Garcia applies to them like tariffs do. Even if you feel horrified and outraged, maybe it feels Far away. Maybe it feels like it could never happen to you or anyone you know, but it's not. And it could happen to you or someone you know. I know everybody watching right now has probably followed this story, so. But it's still worth restating. I mean, Abrego Garcia is a Maryland father and legal US Resident who was deported to a mega prison in El Salvador in a move the government has admitted happened by mistake. At no point has anyone in the US or in El Salvador charged him with a crime. And so the Supreme Court said the Trump administration needs to get him back and can't deport him without a trial. But Trump's ignoring all of that, saying it's up to El Salvador's dictator to determine whether or not a legal US Resident gets to come back to the country or spend the rest of his life in a prison abroad. If that weren't horrifying enough, which it absolutely should be, Trump took things one big step further during his meeting with the president of El Salvador today. Homegrown criminals next.

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[Anchor]

Five more places, which you just heard him say. Now, to be clear, by five more places, Trump means five more prison camps. And by homegrowns are next, he means American citizens are next. If that wasn't clear enough, he said it out loud in the Oval Office just moments later.

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I'd like to go a step further. I mean, I say I said it to Pam. I don't know what the laws are. We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways. I'd like to include them in the group of people to get them out of the country.

[Anchor]

I mean, so today it's homegrown criminals who push people into subways, as Trump defines them, by the way. But tomorrow, could it be lawyers, journalists, Democrats, People Donald Trump just doesn't like. We've heard a million times from his lackeys that he's just joking. He's just saying that it's not actual policy. But the thing is, what he's saying is also pretty consistent with what his administration is doing behind the scenes. Like having DHS demand the updated personal information from the IRS of upwards of 7 million undocumented immigrants who pay taxes. Like having Social Security declare undocumented immigrants dead to revoke their Social Security numbers and prevent them from earning wages. Like having DHS stalk social media Accounts of students here legally on visas in search of a justification to deport them. The case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia is not isolated. It could be just an early indication of larger plans. I mean, every action I just listed, and there are more than that, but tells us that at a minimum, this administration is preparing to go after more students, to illegally send more illegal residents out of the country, to go to the neighborhoods of more people living in this country to scare them and attempt to kick them out. If the courts don't enforce the law and if leaders in Congress and states don't do enough to fight it, what's going to stop the Trump administration from attempting to do the same thing to US Citizens? I mean, today we got reporting about an immigration lawyer in Massachusetts and a born and raised American citizen, by the way, who got a notice from the Department of Homeland Security saying, it's time for you to leave the United States and do not attempt to remain in the United States. The federal government will find you. Now, this lawyer is pretty sure she received the letter in error, and she probably did. But now we know how this administration feels about deporting American citizens. Trump said it himself today. We also know how they feel about what happens when they deport someone by mistake. It's not their responsibility. Look, as I said, the tariff issue is breaking through because it affects everyone. Of course it does. And maybe this president's immigration policy still feels far away, like it won't impact you, like it won't impact your neighbor. But based on everything we heard from Donald Trump and everything he said today, based on everything his administration is doing behind the scenes to turn those words into actions, or at least be prepared to, it could start to feel closer and closer and closer to all of us. Bear with me for just like a moment here for the. A little bit of an American history class. But we've been down this road before, which is important to remember. I mean, one of the grievances against the British listed in the Declaration of Independence was that they would send Americans overseas for trial. And at least once before, the supreme court rejected a U.S. effort to send people to be tried abroad because of concerns that the same could be done to American citizens. In 1841, another Massachusetts resident, former President John Quincy Adams, right there in that picture, argued before the Supreme Court in the famed Amistad case, defending the enslaved Africans who revolted and took over a Spanish ship. Now, the US Government argued that the Africans should be sent back to Africa and tried in court overseas. But Adams won the case, arguing quote, if the president has the power to do it in the case of Africans and send them beyond seas for trial, he he could do it by the same authority in the case of American citizens. He said that in 1841, nearly 200 years ago. But it was the Supreme Court that agreed and stopped the government from doing so. But this time around, Donald Trump is defying the Supreme Court. He's ignoring them. And the judicial branch may not be able to stop Trump and the executive branch on its own. That leaves one other branch. And yes, Republicans are in charge of both the House and the Senate. But there are powers that every member of Congress can use to fight back, including the power to use their platforms, draw attention and call things out. The most powerful member of the House, opposition, Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, is standing by and will join us here live in just 60 seconds.

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[Anchor]

And as promised. Joining me now is House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries. Leader Jeffries, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for taking the time and there's so much I wanna talk to you about, including the economy and what your members are doing and everything happening out there. I think our viewers should know About I do wanna start with the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, because there's so much people are wondering about what can be done to bring him home. I mean, his attorney said it might take a contempt order from a judge to prompt the Trump administration to return him from El Salvador. There are some who are calling for Congress, of which the Republicans are in charge, to compel people to testify. You're the Democratic leader, but you're in the minority. I think it's important for people to understand what, if any, power for people who are watching at home do you have? What power do you have in other Democratic members to compel, push the government to bring him home?

[Kristen]

Well, we have the power to shape public sentiment, and at the end of the day, making sure that public sentiment in this case understands that the treatment of Mr. Abrego Garcia, you know, is unconscionable, unacceptable, and un American. And if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere, and it's going to be incredibly important for every member of Congress. Certainly, we plan to do this on the Democratic side, both in the House and in the Senate, to intensify the pressure on the Trump administration to comply with the Supreme Court's directive and the Supreme Court and or the federal district court and actually needs to enforce its order. And the vehicles that are available for the court to do that relate to contempt. And that contempt can be directed at a variety of different members of the Trump administration, including, but not limited to the Secretary of State and or his or her designees and the Secretary of Homeland Security and or his or her designees, for the court to determine.

[Anchor]

It sounds like you're saying you think the court should hold some members of the administration in contempt. Anyone else you want to mention there?

[Kristen]

Well, I think what the court needs to do is to set a deadline as it relates to compliance with the quasi directive that came down from the Supreme Court related to returning Mr. Garcia. Specify that and then make sure that it happens. And at the same period of time, I think, as you've seen, and there's been some great leadership from Senator Chris Van Hollen, who apparently indicated earlier today that either his constituent is returned or he plans to go to El Salvador himself. And that's exactly the type of action that as members of Congress, we can do to highlight the injustice, dramatize and amplify it, and force the administration to comply, which in this instance, I believe we will make sure happens.

[Anchor]

One of the things I know that you're often under pressure to do is not be alarmist but also sound the alarm when needed. And I wanted. It's a tricky balance you have to strike. I understand. I wanted to. We played earlier this sound of Donald Trump in the Oval Office suggesting that homegrown criminals, as he called them, which is, again, how he defines them, which is an important point, could be sent to jail in El Salvador. And look, we can all agree that there are some dangerous criminals in our country, but this is clearly a step, at least as I heard it, much further. And it sounded to me like he was leaving the door open to deport American citizens for any range of reasons. Yes, Maybe they committed crimes. Maybe it's people he doesn't like. How did you hear his comments?

[Kristen]

Well, to be clear, it can't happen and we will never allow it to happen. And it's also unclear whether Donald Trump sometimes says these things to distract the American people from the fact that he's failing in a wide variety of areas, including as it relates to the economy. Trump and the Republicans are crashing the American economy in real time, hurting people and driving us toward a recession. Now, we have to take him seriously. He's the President of the United States of America. It would be unlawful and unconstitutional for Donald Trump to attempt to do the things that he's suggesting relative to American citizens. And we are going to have to make sure vigilantly that he doesn't even dare go anywhere close to taking that step.

[Anchor]

Well, let's turn to the economy. I know that's front and center on your mind, obviously, and front and center on the minds of your members. I started the show by talking about his weakness on the economy. We're seeing that in poll after poll. We're hearing that from small business owners and farmers all around the chaos of tariffs. I also wanted to ask you, though, because Republicans, everyone's going to come back in a couple of weeks and there's going to be a focus on this budget bill. And there's a piece in there the House Energy and Commerce Committee is looking to cut, As I read, $880 billion from the programs under its jurisdiction, including Medicaid. You would know better than almost anyone what how that could happen. Is there any way to do that without massive cuts to Medicaid, in your view?

[Kristen]

No, not at all. And listen, we have the Republicans and Donald Trump on the run on three different issues, and we're going to continue to press our case before the American people. We have them on the run as it relates to the economy. They promised to lower costs. In fact, on day one, they haven't lowered costs. Costs are going up and they are recklessly driving us toward a recession. We have them on the run as it relates to Social Security. As Democrats, we want to protect and strengthen Social Security. Republicans believe that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and they are trying to dismantle the Social Security Administration. And we certainly have them on the run as it relates to their plans connected to Medicaid because they want to visit upon the American people the largest Medicaid cut in American history. It will hurt children, hurt families, hurt women, hurt people with disabilities and hurt older Americans in nursing homes as well as close hospitals all across this country. It's outrageous what they want to do and we're going to fight it every step of the way and try to stop the Republicans from taking a dime away from Medicaid when we go back into session.

[Anchor]

You mentioned Medicaid, Social Security. I know that members are out there now, this week, out during congressional recess. The House is tomorrow is a safe Social Security day of action. A safe Social Security day of action. And there's a Medicaid day of action on Thursday. How many people are going to be out there doing things? What are people going to be hearing? I know we've heard some of the message from you, but what should people expect to hear in their districts about what Democrats are going to do about these issues?

[Kristen]

Well, there are hundreds of different events that are going to take place throughout this week into next week, all across the country, as you mentioned, Jen, tomorrow, safe Social Security day of action on Thursday, Medicaid matters day of action, and then all of next week, a cost of living week of action in connection with Social Security. We want to one, sound the alarm and also make clear that we are going to hold Republicans accountable for any effort to try to dismantle Social Security in real time as inspired by the unelected, you know, unaccountable, unpopular, out of control billionaire Elon Musk, who believes that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Now, in the context of the budget reconciliation, the law will prohibit Republicans from adversely impacting Social Security benefits. And so that's a positive thing. But we have to stop them through the appropriations process of trying to dismantle the Social Security administration, which is underway right now. And of course, we're suing them in court and and have been successful and will need to continue to be successful in terms of Medicaid. You know, our view is that these Republicans want to take away health care from the American people in order to pass a massive tax break. For their billionaire donors like Elon Musk, it's a toxic scheme. We've got to call it out for what it is and make sure we only need three Republicans to join us and, and we can stop this from happening.

[Anchor]

One of the contrasts there that you touched on is the people who Trump is hurting and the people who he's trying to help. And I wanted to ask you before I let you go, I know you're a busy guy, but according to some reporting out today from the New York Times and other outlets, Congressman Marjorie Taylor Greene bought between about 21,000, according to the reports, and $315,000 in stocks in the two days before Trump announced he was pausing the sweeping global tariffs, notably stocks that were initially hit the hardest. She apparently dumped between 50,000 and 100,000 in bonds. That doesn't sound like a coincidence to me. But what do you think of that and what can happen to look into that?

[Kristen]

So many of these people are crooks, liars and frauds. And Marjorie Taylor Greene is, of course, exhibit A. We are seeing corruption unfold before us in real time. And House Democrats and Senate Democrats are going to partner together to make sure we, of course, shine a spotlight on these issues. One, we do need to change the law so that sitting members of Congress cannot trade stock, period, full stop. And until we get to that point, we obviously have to continue to highlight why this is problematic. And if Republicans are unwilling to hold a hearing on this matter, I can assure you Democrats will on Capitol Hill in partnership with the Senate, and we also will take this matter on the road.

[Anchor]

Well, I'll look forward. We'll all look forward to seeing that. Thank you so much, Leader Jeffries. We'll all be watching all of the days of action this week as well. Appreciate you joining me.

[Kristen]

Thank you.

[Anchor]

Coming up, what happens when a president ignores the Supreme Court? I've already been talking about this a little bit, but he's simply pretending they ruled in his favor, which is also very weird. Former U.S. attorney from the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara is going to try and answer that one for us. And we're going to be right back.

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[Anchor]

That'll be 52.87.

[Greenlight]

Oh, no.

[Anchor]

Do I have enough in my bank.

[Kristen]

Account to cover that?

[Anchor]

Oh, please, have enough. Okay, here we go.

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[Anchor]

A little less than a month ago, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer drew a very clear line in the sand.

[Kristen]

This is an extraordinary moment. It does require extraordinary action. If he defies the Supreme Court, then we are in uncharted territory. I believe that if Donald Trump should defy the courts, public, the public will rise up. We will. Democrats will fight it in every single way.

[Anchor]

I mean, it's pretty clear Donald Trump has crossed that line. His administration is continuing to willfully misinterpret a unanimous Supreme Court order to facilitate the return of Kilmara Brego Garcia, the Maryland father we've been talking about already, who was deported without a hearing to a notorious mega prison in El Salvador and whom multiple Trump officials, including the Solicitor General of the United States, admitted in court documents, was wrongly deported. I just want to read directly from what the Supreme Court wrote in its ruling, and I'm going to talk to Preet Bharar about this shortly. But here's what it says. Quote, the order properly requires the government to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have had had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. It's a direct quote. Facilitate his release from custody and ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent. Okay. I'm not a lawyer, but the court seemed fairly clear there. That's why I repeated that. And yet the Trump White House was all over the place today. All over the place with their own imaginative interpretation of events, insisting that the court's unanimous ruling was actually in their favor somehow and claiming they don't have to fix their own mistakes.

[Kristen]

We won the case handily.

[Ad]

The misreporting on this has been atrocious. Second, I appreciate he was not. No bill is important. He was not mistakenly sent to El Salvador. What was handling in the Supreme Court, Steve? Was it nine to nothing? Yes, it was a nine zero in our favor. In our favor. Nine zero unanimously stating clearly that neither.

[Kristen]

Secretary of State nor the president could.

[Ad]

Be compelled by anybody to forcibly retrieve a citizen of El Salvador from El Salvador who again, is a member of Ms. 13.

[Anchor]

That's up to El Salvador. If they want to return him, that's not up to us. The Supreme Court ruled, President, that if as El Salvador wants to return, and this is international matters, I mean, Stephen Miller and Pam Bondi, we can read, by the way. I mean, first of all, Garcia was mistakenly sent to a notorious prison in El Salvador that's been admitted by three different Trump officials in court filings. Two, while the Trump administration repeatedly alleges that Garcia is a gang member, he has never been charged or convicted of a crime at all. And in fact, as the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals pointed out last week, quote, the government has made no effort to demonstrate that Abrego Garcia is in fact, a member of any gang. Made no effort. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, the court's ruling was not a unanimous win for Trump. Stephen Miller, that one's for you. They ordered the administration to provide the due process that was denied when they took Garcia and put him on a plane to be imprisoned in a foreign country without so much as a hearing. So, yeah, Trump and his officials have crossed a dangerous new line, clearly ignoring the Supreme Court, reinterpreting its order, and basically flat out lying about what the court said. Preet B. Rao is the former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. My guess is he has some thoughts about all this and he's going to join me next.

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[Anchor]

There'S been this question sort of looming over the first couple of months of Trump's second term, which is when we are officially in a constitutional crisis. Well, as Adams writes in the Atlantic, when a president pretends to comply with the Supreme Court while actively ignoring its ruling, it's kind of hard to call it anything else. Preet Bharara is a former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and he joins me now. Hello, Preet, let me just start with I just talked earlier in the show with hello, I just talked with Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries a little bit earlier and he suggested that if the administration refuses to to comply with this court order to return this Maryland father, the court can and maybe should. And this is something actually his lawyer is calling for too hold members of the administration. I mean, Hakeem Jeffries mentioned the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security in contempt. Is that a realistic possibility, do you think?

[Ad]

I mean, it's an option available to the court. Judges do it all the time with private parties and with public entities as well. It's something you want to do with great care and deliberation. But I think the court is at the end of its patience. You know, I've been thinking all day about how to answer this question about defiance that I know you were going to ask me. And part of the problem is there's over lawyering about what some of these words mean. And you read plain as day in the intro to the segment that the court required and the Supreme Court basically endorse the idea that the Trump administration should facilitate the return of this person. Well, the district court said facilitate and effectuate. I don't know that there's a lot of difference between those two words and the Supreme Court in deference and in acknowledgment of the idea that the courts are not able to intrude on the foreign policy powers of the president. So. Well, maybe effectuate goes too far. And by the way, as I'm giving this explanation, have you fallen asleep yet? You know, you might never, because this is a kind of over lawyering that people hate lawyers for.

[Anchor]

Well, I.

[Ad]

And for a lay person has common sense, too. And what has happened here, as you described very adroitly in the intro, is a person who is not supposed to be sent back to El Salvador, who admittedly was not supposed to be sent to El Salvador, was. It was a mistake, it was an error. Common sense and common decency and the rule of law all are on the same side on this one. And you take steps to bring him back. And whether the word facilitate is what gets it done or some other word gets it done, that is what's supposed to happen. And everyone understands that. And if it doesn't happen, then as you ask the question contempt and other options should be and are on the table.

[Anchor]

That's. Do you think that. Because they are. I mean, has it been done and this hasn't been done? There's no precedent really for this being done with administration officials, is there? So it would be something the judge is doing that there isn't exactly a playbook for with these type of officials. Is that the issue?

[Ad]

Well, I don't know there's ever a case in which, you know, a White House has been held in contempt, but certainly government officials over the course of our long history have been held in contempt. Usually you try to avoid that. In this case, I think the Trump administration is trying to be too cute by half. And look, you know, some of the exchange you've had on this, including with the president of El Salvador, includes that president saying, oopsie, Right. So it's bad faith on the part of our counterpart in El Salvador. It's bad faith on the part of the folks in the administration, as you've been pointing out, who are misreading and overreading the Supreme Court decision. And at some point, you know, look, a court doesn't have an army behind it, and that's been pointed out by people time and time again. It gains its authoritativeness from the respect that people have, particularly from the government, have for the courts. But at the end of the day, if you're out of options, then you have to explore these, you know, much more serious options. It's not the best option, but it's an option. It really is.

[Anchor]

One of the things I mean, and the reason why it's interesting to read what the Supreme Court ruling said, right, is I know it's ambiguous language, perhaps purposefully, as you kind of alluded to there is that. But the way it's being interpreted, obviously, by the likes of Stephen Miller, of course, but even Attorney General Pam Bondi, mean, not even she kind of is in a line with him on a lot of this stuff. She basically said that if El Salvador wanted to return Garcia, we would facilitate it, meaning provide a plane. So they're obviously not acting in good faith, but is providing simply providing a plane meeting what, as you read the Supreme Court order, it was telling them they needed to do?

[Ad]

Again, going back to common sense principles, the administration should do that, which makes sense to bring him back. There's a contract with El Salvador, obviously, there's a relationship with El Salvador, with the president there. This person was sent in error. If a good faith request was made to bring him back, he would be brought back. And the administration in America keeps relying on, you know, their own interpretation that's helpful to them by saying, well, all they need to do to facilitate is to remove domestic barriers. And it's totally up to the president of the other country. That flies in the face of how these things work. It flies in the face of what really happened here. And they're acting in concert with each other. I mean, the president of El Salvador was here today and perhaps prompted by the Trump administration or otherwise, is playing ball with him and not being forthcoming about sending this person back. That makes no sense. It flies in the face, as I said, of the Supreme Court ruling, common sense, decency, rule of law, all these things that the Trump administration claims that they are in favor of and support, and it's all a lie.

[Anchor]

Well, I don't think the president of El Salvador has any desire, clearly, from what he said today to send him back. And Trump clearly is not going to do more to bring him back. Prepara, thank you for helping us always understand the law a little bit better or the limits of the law or what the law should be doing. Really appreciate it. Coming up, the images tell the terrifying story of the arson attack at Governor, Governor Josh Shapiro's residence. And now we are learning more about the motive. The story hits very close to home for Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. She's now a candidate for governor herself, and she joins me next. Early Sunday morning, the home of Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro was targeted by an arsonist. And hearing about it is one thing. It's awful, obviously, but seeing it is another. So I wanted you to take a look at some of the photos. I'm going to show them on the screen. So this one I'm showing right here is from inside the governor's residence after the attack. Now, according to an affidavit, a man allegedly jumped a fence, broke into the home, and then threw a series of Molotov cocktails, starting a substantial fire. Governor Shapiro and his wife were inside the home during the attack, but were safely evacuated. The suspect also admitted to harboring hatred toward the governor and said that if Governor Shapiro would have found him inside, if he would have found him inside the home, he would have beaten him with his hammer. The suspect was arraigned in Pennsylvania just hours ago on charges including attempted murder and terrorism. Now, as for Governor Shapiro, he spoke outside of the scorched residence just hours after the attack.

[Kristen]

This type of violence is not okay. This kind of violence is becoming far too common in our society. And I don't give a damn if it's coming from one particular side or the other, directed at one particular party or another or one particular person or another. It is not okay. And it has to stop. We have to be better than this.

[Anchor]

We have to be better than this. And as for President Trump, he didn't say anything about it at that, about the attack proactively until he was asked about it in the Oval Office earlier today. And here's what he had to say.

[Ad]

The attacker was not a fan of Trump. I understand. Just from what I read and from what I've been told, the attacker basically wasn't a fan of anybody. It was probably just a whack job. And certainly a thing like that cannot be allowed to happen.

[Anchor]

Not a lot of empathy for the governor and everything he went through I'm hearing there. Exactly. Joining me now, though, is Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson. She's Also running for governor of Michigan in 2026. It's great to see you. Thank you for being with me. And we thought about who we wanted to talk to about this, and you were kind of the perfect person, so thank you. I know this story must feel personal for you. I know you're from Pittsburgh. Last year, your home was also targeted in several Swatting attacks. In 2020, dozens of armed protesters gathered outside your home while you and your son were inside. Given that, I just wanted to ask you to help people understand this. What was going through your mind when you heard these details and saw these images from the governor's residence?

[Greenlight]

Well, thanks for having me. I started my career investigating antisemitism and neo Nazis throughout the country in the late 90s. What actually went through my mind first was this was right after Passover, the first night of Passover. As we still learn more about the attack, that context, especially in a state where we saw the attack on the Tree of Life synagogue just a few years earlier to a governor who swore oath as office related to, you know, as Tallman related to the synagogue, that is where my mind went immediately. And then secondly, my mind went to the family, that this is attack, not on a person, not on an ideology only. This is attack on a family, a family that is committed to service of all people, the entire Commonwealth. So it was deeply disturbing, deeply hurtful, and all too reminiscent of what too many of us have endured in this contentious political era over the last several years as hateful rhetoric and hateful threats has been on the rise.

[Anchor]

You heard Governor Shapiro say something that is, I mean, absolutely appropriate and so important to hear at this moment. It has to stop. We have to be better than this. What do you think? You've investigated these cases. You've experienced these threats yourself. What is it actually going to take to change this trend of political violence that so many people are facing?

[Greenlight]

It is going to take all of us coming together, not allowing this hateful moment to divide us, isolate us. I mean, the goal of an administration or a movement or an ideology that tries to divide and create chaos and confusion and hate is to isolate and make people feel alone. This is a moment where we have to actually come together to reunite. Even if we can disagree on things, we can disagree without being disagreeable and hateful. And so, for me, the reaction is for all of us, as Americans, citizens, to realize we are indeed better than this. This hateful rhetoric and these threats do not define us. They have never defined this country when we are at our best. And this is A moment for all of us to put ideology even aside and come together and say, we are indeed better than this, and we do need to be able to return to that civility, that unity, and define who we are as Americans through that lens, not through this lens of division and hateful rhetoric.

[Anchor]

I also wanted to ask you about President Trump's response. I played it because I think it was important for people to see it. It isn't always important for people to see what he has to say, but every now and then, just to draw the contrast, he didn't post or say anything about the attack for more than a day. He was asked about it this morning, as you heard earlier. He said, in part, the attacker was not a fan of Trump. But what did you make of the response?

[Greenlight]

I mean, honestly, I felt like he made it about himself when it should have been about the people of Pennsylvania and the governor of the commonwealth who were immediately threatened by these acts. And this was an opportunity for the president to bring us together to unilaterally condemn this and any other hateful attack and to remind ourselves that we are the United States of America. We can come together in times like these and unify behind and against hateful attacks and threats and rhetoric. This was an opportunity for him to do that, and it was. I was disappointed, not surprised, disappointed and saddened to see him miss that opportunity and instead essentially make it about himself.

[Anchor]

Who else would you like to hear from more forcefully right now?

[Greenlight]

I think every single leader in America has to strongly condemn these attacks. I mean, we saw this in Michigan a few years ago when we saw this incredulous kidnapping attempt that was thwarted on Governor Whitmer. What the antidote to moments like this is for leaders, and again, for all of us, to come together, condemn these violent threats. Do not allow them to define who we are. Certainly do not allow them to have any sense of normalcy. And so, for me, every single leader in this country should immediately unequivocally condemn this attack, offer support to Governor Shapiro and his family and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, because this is an attack not just on him, but the entire Commonwealth, and use this as an opportunity to say, this is not going to define who we are. Let's turn the page, come back together as Americans, and chart a course forward where we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable and certainly without going down the path of violence and hate blacks.

[Anchor]

Jocelyn Benson, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time. We'll be right back.

[Greenlight]

Thanks for having me.

[Anchor]

Okay. Some of my absolute favorite days at the White House were when a championship sports team came to visit. Not because I'm a huge sports fan. That too. But also because it was super cool to hang out with the best athletes in the world, obviously. But also because as a staffer, you could kind of take a breath for an hour or two. President says some nice things about the team and how great they are. The team gives them a jersey with their name on the back. Done and dusted. But vice president and Ohio native J.D. vance had a little trouble with the Ohio State football team's championship trophy today. He tried to lift it up. Oh, oh, there it goes. I mean, I can feel the communication staffers tensing up and averting their eyes. He tries to fix it, tries to recover. Eventually, Ohio State head coach Ryan Day tries to come to the rescue. And then the vice president just decides he'll hoist the top half of the trophy into the air for a photo op. Nothing to see here. All is well being vice president, guys, not as easy as it looks, but we do appreciate the unintentional moment of levity. We all kind of need it right now. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show every Sunday at 12pm and Monday at 8pm on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. For now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week.

[Monday.com]

Here's why April chose to vaccinate her child.

[Anchor]

I think actually meeting someone who was not vaccinated and now has a lifelong struggle with a childhood disease really cemented for me that it's super important that we as parents continue to vaccinate our children.

[Ad]

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