VIDEO ANALYSIS: Jen Psaki breaks down multiple video angles of ICE killing Minneapolis mom

Summary

The Briefing with Jen Psaki | Episode Summary

Episode: VIDEO ANALYSIS: Jen Psaki breaks down multiple video angles of ICE killing Minneapolis mom
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Guests: Senator Amy Klobuchar, Congressman Dan Goldman, Jacob Soboroff, Gabby Giffords, Senator Mark Kelly
Date: January 10, 2026

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Overview

This episode centers on the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Goode, a Minneapolis mother of three, by an ICE agent. Jen Psaki provides an in-depth analysis of newly released video footage, examines conflicting narratives, and hosts candid discussions with Senator Amy Klobuchar, Congressman Dan Goldman, and journalist Jacob Soboroff. The latter part of the episode features a reflective interview with Gabby Giffords and Senator Mark Kelly on the anniversary of Giffords’ own shooting, linking their advocacy for gun violence prevention to the week’s tragic events.

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1. Breaking Down the Killing of Renee Nicole Goode

Context & Emerging Investigations

• The shooting occurred in Hennepin County, Klobuchar's former jurisdiction, and has triggered overlapping federal, state, and local investigations.
• According to Klobuchar and Psaki, the federal government is withholding key evidence from state investigators, impeding independent accountability. (01:01–03:00)
• Minnesota’s AG Keith Ellison and the Hennepin County Attorney have announced their own probe, but it may lack access to crucial federal evidence.

Quote

“A big question is…how they can do that investigation without access to evidence and if they can proceed... What does accountability look like here?”
—Jen Psaki (01:01)

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Video Footage Analysis (03:00–09:00)

• A right-wing outlet first released new cellphone video from the shooter’s perspective, which conservative figures claim exonerates the ICE agent.
• Psaki synchronizes multiple angles, noting the sequence:
  • Goode appears calm, says, “I’m not mad at you. That’s fine, dude.” (04:05)
  • Goode moves her vehicle slightly to allow another car to pass.
  • Agents approach, shout at her to get out. Goode backs up and appears to steer away from agents.
  • The critical moment in the video (widely seized upon online) shows jumbled camera footage and a loud noise; right-wing commentators claim this indicates Goode hit the shooter.
  • Psaki’s analysis—with side-by-side footage—suggests the officer was not in danger at the time of firing, with the vehicle already steering away. The noise is as likely to be from the agent fumbling his phone and the gunshot, not impact.
• Psaki highlights chilling officer behavior post-shooting:
  • After firing, the shooter or another agent shouts “Fucking bitch.” (05:48)
  • Officers do not rush to aid Goode; a doctor offering to help is rebuffed. (08:44)
  • Emergency medics take more than six minutes to arrive, despite officers’ claims that “we have medics on the scene.”
  • Some agents, including the shooter, reportedly leave the scene before EMS arrives.
• Right-wing reactions from Trump administration officials and Vice President J.D. Vance label Goode a “domestic terrorist” and blame her for her own death, rhetoric Psaki and guests sharply criticize.

Memorable Exchanges

• “She said, ‘I’m not mad at you.’ And 25 seconds after she uttered those words, she was shot.”
  —Jen Psaki (09:01)
• After shooting, agents respond to a doctor offering to help:
  “No, back up now. I’m a physician.”
  —Jacob Soboroff / ICE agent (08:46)

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2. Conversation with Senator Amy Klobuchar (10:44–23:23)

Community Reaction & Leadership

• Klobuchar describes Minnesota as experiencing “America’s heartbreak” again, comparing this incident to the George Floyd murder and other tragedies.
• She praises local resilience, recounting that residents and even a doctor tried to help at the scene.
• Emphasizes the need for a “full, independent, transparent investigation” and criticizes the Trump administration for stonewalling state involvement. (10:44–12:16)

Quote

“We are once again the center of America’s heartbreak... when you dissected that video, it was just chilling.”
—Senator Amy Klobuchar (10:44)

ICE’s Role and Calls for Reform

• Klobuchar agrees with Minneapolis officials that ICE’s presence is making the community less safe.
• Notes there are now more ICE agents in Minnesota than Minneapolis and St. Paul police combined. (13:08–14:49)
• Relates disturbing reports of ICE detaining local, legal residents and even entering a high school the day after Goode’s killing.
• Supports including ICE funding and operational policy reforms in upcoming congressional budget discussions.
• States her focus is de-escalating tension in Minnesota, not stoking it as she accuses Trump and allies of doing.

Quote

“The surge that they have created is clearly making our community unsafe. Ask the family of Renee Goode.”
—Klobuchar (15:05)

Investigative Challenges (19:19–21:17)

• Klobuchar and Senator Tina Smith lobbied DOJ to reverse the information freeze.
• While AG Ellison and local prosecutors will attempt their investigation using publicly available material, Klobuchar insists a joint federal–state approach is necessary for true accountability.

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3. Congressman Dan Goldman on Officer Immunity and Federal Accountability (25:08–29:37)

• Vice President Vance claimed the ICE agent had “absolute immunity”—Goldman clarifies that officers have “qualified immunity,” not absolute. Qualified immunity, as currently interpreted, makes prosecutions very difficult.
• Goldman and Rep. Swalwell propose legislation to shift from a subjective (“what the officer claims to have believed”) to an objective (“what a reasonable person would have believed”) standard for liability.
• Stresses the chilling effect of top officials like Trump, Stephen Miller, and Pam Bondi publicly signaling exoneration before the investigation concludes.

Key Explanation

“The Vice President is just incorrect about absolute immunity... The qualified immunity standard… makes it almost impossible to hold officers liable.”
—Dan Goldman (25:58)

“We are introducing a bill that changes that subjective test… to an objective test, which is what a reasonable person in that situation would have thought.”
—Dan Goldman (26:59)

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4. Immigration Enforcement Tactics — Jacob Soboroff (31:41–37:29)

Federal Operations in Schools and Cities

• After Goode’s death, Border Patrol, led by Gregory Bevino, entered a Minneapolis high school, using force against staff and bystanders. (31:41)
• Soboroff draws direct lines from the incident to a broader, content-focused “reality TV” mentality among Trump’s immigration officials.
• He emphasizes that current enforcement is the largest mass deportation campaign in U.S. history, compared to Eisenhower’s 1954 program.
• Notes the normalization of violence and culture within enforcement agencies:
  “There’s a word for hitting migrants over the head with a flashlight… this is just the extrapolation of decades of deterrence-based, bipartisan immigration policy…” (34:49–35:07)
• Details in his book Firestorm how enforcement hampers disaster recovery and civic life, as workers targeted for deportation are integral to community rebuilding.

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5. Reflections on Resilience — Gabby Giffords and Senator Mark Kelly (38:34–46:24)

15 Years since Tucson Shooting

• Psaki interviews Giffords and Kelly about the anniversary of Giffords’ 2011 shooting and her advocacy since.
• Giffords describes her extensive recovery efforts (“yoga, French horn, Spanish lessons, biking, pool therapy”, 39:20) and sustained activism—traveling 60% of her time to lobby for gun safety.
• Mark Kelly recounts the trauma and transformation following the attack, emphasizing their persistence and hope.

Memorable Moment

“For a while, [Gabby] could only say a couple of words. Those words: ‘what’ and ‘chicken.’”
—Senator Mark Kelly (41:28–41:34)

Progress on Gun Violence Prevention

• Giffords’ organization has helped pass 700–800 laws across states, focusing especially where federal inaction persists.
• Both Giffords and Kelly stress being gun owners who advocate for responsible safety measures, including background checks and red flag laws.
• Condemn Trump’s rollback of federal violence prevention efforts, and highlight bipartisan lawmaking at the state level.
• End on an optimistic note about the persistence of hope and civic engagement even after devastation.

Quote

"There are better days ahead."
—Gabby Giffords (46:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:01 – (Advertisements: Skipped)
• 01:01–03:00 – Introduction; context for shooting, investigations
• 03:00–09:00 – Video breakdown, narrative rebuttal, aftermath details
• 10:44–23:23 – Senator Amy Klobuchar interview: Minnesota’s pain, ICE’s role, investigation, and reforms
• 25:08–29:37 – Rep. Dan Goldman: Explaining qualified immunity, proposed reform
• 31:41–37:29 – Jacob Soboroff: Reporting on federal enforcement, local impact, and policy culture
• 38:34–46:24 – Gabby Giffords & Senator Mark Kelly: Anniversary reflection, gun violence prevention
• (Advertisements and non-content segments omitted per instructions)

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Notable Quotes

Renee Nicole Goode’s last words:

“I’m not mad at you. That’s fine, dude.” (04:05)

On the investigation:

“The surge that they have created is clearly making our community unsafe.” —Sen. Klobuchar (15:05)

On ICE, federal power and local impact:

“According to our well respected Minneapolis Police Chief... now more ICE agents in Minnesota than [there are local] police officers combined.” —Klobuchar (13:40)

On officer immunity:

“The Vice President is just incorrect about absolute immunity... The qualified immunity standard... makes it almost impossible to hold officers liable.” —Congressman Dan Goldman (25:58)

On systemic consequences:

“Now we're seeing American citizens killed in this mass deportation effort... they are in it for the content as much as they are in it for whatever mission they have told themselves that they are doing.” —Jacob Soboroff (33:36)

On activism and hope:

"There are better days ahead." —Gabby Giffords (46:14)

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Takeaways

• The episode delivers a meticulous, multi-camera analysis that undermines claims of ICE exoneration, exposing officer behavior and federal obstruction.
• Political figures, including Senator Klobuchar, advocate for systemic accountability and highlight the divisive role of ICE and the Trump administration in Minnesota.
• Legal barriers like qualified immunity are examined—and emerging efforts in Congress seek reform.
• The episode concludes with Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly’s testimony to resilience, hope, and sustained advocacy, drawing a line from personal tragedy to national activism.

For listeners seeking clarity, context, and concrete analysis of the week’s most controversial tragedy, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Jen Psaki]

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[Jen Psaki]

Has not done a national interview since the shooting happened in her home state on Wednesday. And Amy Klobuchar is not only a senator from Minnesota, but she also used to be the county attorney for Hennepin county, which is where this shooting took place. Now today, the current Hennepin County Attorney, Mary Moriarty and Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison announced their own investigation, a state and local investigation that is independent from the federal investigation overseen by the completely untrustworthy leadership of the FBI. And they did that at least in part because the federal government froze state investigators out of the investigation into this incident earlier this week, denying them access to evidence, which is pretty key here. Now while that is the announcement of this investigation is of course very well intentioned on their part. A big question is is how they can do that investigation without access to evidence and if they can proceed even though they really want to and have the best intentions with a thorough investigation. What does accountability look like here? I have a ton obviously to ask Senator Klobuchar about all of that and much, much more. But I did want to start tonight with a new video of the shooting in question because today a right wing outlet was the first to obtain and publish that video, which msnow has now acquired as well. It is yet another angle of Wednesday morning shooting and this time the video is from the perspective of a phone held by the shooter himself. And the Reuters quickly jumped on this new footage. I mean they are all over it claiming it somehow vindicates the ICE agent responsible for killing Renee Nicole Goode earlier this week. They claim that because the shooter appears to fumble his camera and because you can hear a loud noise, that this video must be evidence that Renee Goode ran over or hit the agent with her car. That is what they have been blasting everywhere. But if you look at all of the evidence we have seen so far, that does not appear to be the case because so many people were filming this incident when it happened. We have a lot of footage that captured the scene from very different angles. And while I'm not a crime scene expert by any means, I certainly don't claim to be one. But when you put them all together, which we've tried to do here, the picture of what happened on Wednesday morning gets clearer. Now, DHS has said that the reason there was such a large ice presence on that block to begin with was that an ice vehicle had gotten stuck in the snow and other ice vehicles had arrived to help get it out. Residents seeing the large ice presence then began blowing whistles. You can hear them right there. To warn that that ice was there. And they also started to film. That's how we get a lot of this footage. So today's new video shows the shooter filming with his phone as he walks around Renee Nicole Goode's maroon suv. Goode then tells the agent, that's fine, dude. I'm not mad at you. That's fine, dude.

[Angie Hicks]

I'm not mad at you.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay? You then see Goode pull forward slightly. You can see it on your screen and gesture for a vehicle to go around and pass her, which it does. From here, two things happen on opposite sides of the car simultaneously. The shooter continues circling the car. In the video on the left, you can see him filming the person who appears to be Good's wife as she films him and shouts at the officer. Now, in the video on the right, on the other side of the car, two more federal agents get out of this silver pickup truck and approach Goode's car. If you listen carefully, you can hear Goode telling the agents to go around. Okay. After Good tells the agents to go around, they then told her, you could just hear that to get the f out of the car. Goode then backs her car up, away from the agents, apparently to leave. And today's new video shows her hands turning the steering wheel, clearly pointing the car in the opposite direction as the agents before she proceeds to drive forward. Of course, and at the same point in the wider video, you can see that her wheels are already turned away from the agents as she begins to move forward okay, so that brings us to the piece of this new video. The right has absolutely latched onto a moment of impact of some kind in which the shooter's camera becomes unstable and shaky. And this is what many on the right say is evidence that the car hit the officer. So let's look at that moment on its own.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Get out of the car.

[Jen Psaki]

So the right has seized on those five seconds, five seconds where you can't see much because the officer kind of fumbles his phone to say that the car must have hit the agent who shot Good. They are claiming that that video vindicates the agent for firing those shots. But if you sync up that video with the other angle of that same moment, you can see that the car does not appear to run the agent over. In fact, the agent's feet are positioned away from the car. And as I mentioned, the car is already headed in the opposite direction. Now, let's just take a moment to watch that side by side at full speed, because a lot is happening at once during the course of only about 3 seconds. It happens very fast. Three seconds. And it's obviously hard to catch everything that's going on. But you may notice that the moment that many on the right have attributed to the car hitting the agent, that moment occurs at virtually the same time he fires his first shot. And at the very same time he fumbles his phone, which appears to be pressed up against his body. Now, both of those things happen almost simultaneously. So between the sound of the phone's microphone potentially rubbing against the agent's clothes and the muffled sound of the first gunshot, it's hard to say what we are actually hearing. In other words, the sound that the right has seized upon could very well be the sound of his phone against his body combined with the sound of that first gunshot. Also, I can't imagine that federal agents would be encouraged to use their cell phones while on duty, especially if they really thought that they were facing a life threatening situation. Today's new video also reveals something that was said in the seconds after the shooting, and it involves some expletives. So if you have kids around and you want to hit mute for a second, this is, this is your moment. I mean, we cannot say for certain if it is the shooter or another agent or just a bystander. But about three seconds after the shots are fired, you can hear this in the shooter's video. Fucking bitch. After he shot at her three times, after Good's car crashes into another car down the block, the agents do not appear to rush to her Aid they do not appear to be in any rush at all. The shooter eventually approaches the car and then slowly walks back to his fellow agents and tells them to call 911. What did you do? You.

[Gabby Giffords]

Shame.

[Jen Psaki]

Shame.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Shame.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Shame.

[Angie Hicks]

Shame.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Shame.

[Jen Psaki]

Now, later, someone who identifies themself as a doctor offers to help, but the federal agents on the scene turn him away.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Can I go check a pulse?

[Jen Psaki]

No, back up now. I'm a physician.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Listen, I understand we got the information.

[Dan Goldman]

I get it.

[Jen Psaki]

Just give us a second. We have medics on scene. We have our own medics.

[Angie Hicks]

Where are they?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Where are they?

[Jen Psaki]

We have medics on the scene. That was one of the last things you heard one of the officers say. Well, it ultimately took more than six minutes before emergency medical personnel arrived, so medics were not in fact on the scene. Also, we at Ms. Now have not independently confirmed this, but the New York Times reports that several agents, including the shooter, then got in their vehicles and drove away, leaving an active crime scene, leaving a 37 year old mother of three that one of their officers had shot three times. Renee Nicole Goode told those officers, I'm not mad at you. That's the woman the Trump administration called a domestic terrorist. That's the woman whose killing Vice President J.D. vance called a tragedy of her own making. And all this new video does is make clear that those claims are just as disgusting and ridiculous as they were before we saw this new video. She said, I'm not mad at you. And 25 seconds after she uttered those words, she was shot. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, you have. It's great to see you. Thank you for being here with me. And I know your state has been through so much, not just this week, but in the last several years. And I just want to remind people of the things that you have been through as a community and as a state. I mean, it was just five years ago, the murder of George Floyd, of course, the assassination of your friend Melissa Hortman, the shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church, and now, of course, the killing of Renee Nicole Goode. You are a very strong person. I know that. But how are you holding up? And how are the people of Minneapolis, Minnesota holding up?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I have been really focused on my state because we are once again the center of America's heartbreak. And my state is this state that cares for the people. They are there. You could see that doctor coming up to help. And they are resilient. And so what we have all. I met with the mayor and the police chief today, at length. And they're saying we just have to continue to be the Minnesota that we are, not take the bait that we're hearing from the White House and mourn the loss of this wonderful woman who, in the words of her wife, just radiated kindness and sparkle, that she was someone who rejected hate and in the words of her wife, was someone that embraced compassion. And so that's what we are doing right now. But this, when you dissected that video, it was just chilling. And that is why I have called for an email, independent, transparent investigation like we have always done in our state, where state, local and federal officials have combined their knowledge. And that includes the Melissa Hortman and Mark Hortman murders, as well as the Annunciation Church with the young little kids being gunned down in those pews. People coordinated and worked together and for the good of the state. And this time this morning, we got, or yesterday we got the shocking news that the FBI was rejecting the professional help from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

[Jen Psaki]

It's really unbelievable. And you have so much legal expertise, which I was just talking about with Chris Hayes. And I want to get there. I just want to start. Because one of the things that's making this so challenging and heartbreaking and really disgusting, I would say, is how the Trump administration is handling this and how they are speaking about this woman who lost her life at the hands of an ICE officer just a couple of days ago. I just mentioned this new video released today that the political right has seized on to claim vindication for the officer. And J.D. vance, the vice President of the United States, a Yale educated lawyer, I should just remind people who should obviously know better, tweeted the video today saying the reality is that his life was endangered and he fired himself. We just played that video. I would guess you'd seen it earlier. What do you make of the vice President saying that or tweeting that today and how he's been handling it?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I just know he knows better. And when you look at all the facts, for him to say this when his own FBI is now investigating this without looking himself at what a lot of people see when they see this. And to make it worse, the words from the administration that this mom of three who clearly loved life was some kind of domestic terrorist is just simply outrageous. And so that is why we are calling for calm so far. We had a beautiful vigil today outside of the Capitol with religious groups. And so people are, of course, very angry, but they're trying to put it into good and we must have an investigation and get at all the facts and combine all of these videos, as you know, there are many. And get the facts and interview the witnesses at the scene. And what was going into this? Because right now. And why is this not happening? Well, because this administration is literally sending ICE agents that are making our community less safe by the numbers. According to the our well respected Minneapolis Police Chief Brian o', Hara, there are now more ICE agents in Minnesota than there are police officers combined. Minneapolis police force and St. Paul police force. So they are outnumbering our own local police officers out on the streets. They have picked up people who are legal, who have passports, who are yelling, I have a passport. I have a passport. Look at my phone. I have a passport. And this is just got to stop.

[Jen Psaki]

The mayor of Minneapolis, as Jacob Fry has been out there passionately over the last couple of days. He's obviously heartbroken as you are. And he said ICE should get out of our city. The Lieutenant governor has said ICE should leave. Do you want ICE to leave Minnesota?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Well, this surge that they have created is clearly making our community unsafe. Ask the family of Renee Goode. Ice, when it does its job, would be working with, in coordination with our police to apprehend violent offenders. That is not what went on, not only in the killing of Renee Goode, but in several other instances in our state. So this is becoming just a tinderbox and the president just seems to be adding fuel to make it worse.

[Jen Psaki]

One of the things that's been so.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Important, like I said, if their job should be to go after violent offenders and to do their jobs, but instead you can just see all of them on that peaceful street and what they did. Again, it's got to be an independent investigation. Sorry, what were you going to say, Jen?

[Jen Psaki]

No, I want to get to the independent investigation too, because that feels challenging without all of the information the FBI is withholding. But on the, I mean, on ice, we talked about this a little bit. Last night they went to a Minneapolis high school, as you well know, the next day, and essentially terrorized people there. Gregory Bevino was there. They don't seem to be stepping back. They seem to be accelerating. There are a lot of questions about what can be done to pull them back. They don't seem receptive to being asked to leave. One of the questions out there is what should be done about their funding. And your colleague, Senator Chris Murphy has proposed that this should be a part of the budget discussions that are coming up with the deadline of January 30th. Do you think there should be restrictions put in place in order for them to get. Should that be a part of what's discussed and debated?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Well, you know, a budget is the values of a country. And so of course there should be policy discussions. When we look at that funding, what just happened was they put billions of more dollars from the big beautiful bill into ice, which was a Republican only piece of legislation. They actually reduced the days of training for ICE officers. I think it was down to 47, which the president wanted because of his years of being President. President in 47. And think about that. They reduced the training, added a bunch of more money, and then instead of focusing their efforts on violent offenders, they are surging into these cities and ending up in situations, horrific tragedies like we saw yesterday. So of course there should be a discussion, there should be reform of what's going on here. And I know that Senator Murphy is the ranking Democrat on that subcommittee and he has gonna be putting forth some ideas.

[Jen Psaki]

But do you. I mean, your voice is incredibly powerful. You're a member of leadership, you have a very powerful voice in the Senate. And also you're from a state that's just been impacted. Are you gonna be an advocate for this, being a part of the discussions and debates leading up to January?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I have advocated in, yes, I have advocated reform to ICE in the past. And right now, the way this is being abused by the president, fed on by the funding, and, you know, they wouldn't put the funding in to extend the healthcare tax credits and they wouldn't help work with us. We now have a change over in the House with Republicans finally seeing the horror of what they did, but instead they did this. So of course that should be a big part of the discussion as we move forward. But right now, I have to say, Jen, when you're right here in the middle of this and you're just trying to talk to people and say, let's be peaceful, despite how much fuel Donald Trump and his friends are trying to spread in this situation. And you're meeting with the police chief. Right now, my focus is on my state and what we're doing here in Minnesota to try to reduce the tension. Because the best way to reduce the tension is for them to leave so we can go back to a balance in our police force with our citizens. Instead of having these ICE officers on high schools and questioning teachers, aides and then detaining them and letting them go, the schools have been closed because of it. And that is the kind of thing that we're seeing Right now that is rocking our community.

[Jen Psaki]

I know it is. And you have so many things that sit on your shoulders when tragedies like this happen in your state. Let me go back to. Let me ask you to put your old Hennepin county attorney hat on here, because the DOJ and the FBI, the FBI is not providing them with, as you say, you said this at the outset with the information that they would need to do an investigation. They just announced a new investigation today. The state attorney general and the Hennepin county attorney. Can they do a thorough investigation? You've sat in those shoes before without access to that information that the FBI is refusing to share.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Well, first of all, we have not closed the door to keep pushing the FBI to share. I do that based on the local relationship that we've established for years and some of the people that work there. Senator Smith and I, Tina Smith and I, sent a letter early this morning to the Department of Justice asking them to reconsider, to share this information with the locals and to allow the state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which has much expertise, to work with them as they had already agreed to before this announcement was made. They had done their work together. They were going to do it again. And then the Trump DOJ cut off the access. So that's my first goal, is to try to make this work as a joint investigation again. That would be the best thing for everyone. But in the absence of that, you've seen our attorney general, Keith Ellison and our county attorney join together to say they are going to try to conduct their own investigation. Now, there are plenty of videos that are public and available that they can look at, and I'm sure they'll be finding ways to get the information they need. But I think they would tell you right now that is not the ideal situation. But given that they have been. Our state has been cut off from investigation of a killing of a woman in our streets. Of course they're going to find a way to look at this, which I.

[Jen Psaki]

Think is the right thing to do. I think anyone out there just almost in an untenable, challenging position before I let you go, and I will let you go soon. I know you got a lot on your shoulders. I know you've said you're giving serious consideration to the decision about whether to run for governor. And I just wonder. I know you're not going to tell me. You can tell me if you're going to run here, of course you're welcome to.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I mean, right here on your show.

[Jen Psaki]

That's right. I just wonder. I'm more interested in how the events of the past few days have kind of affected your thinking about that and the kind of leadership your state needs. I mean, I saw you getting emotional, understandably, because you have a big heart. How does all the events of this week weigh on you as you think about that?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Well, thanks, Jen. And I am, of course, considering this seriously. I love my job and I love the work I do in the Senate, but I also love my state. And as I said, we have been the center of America's heartbreak with everything that's happened this year. And what I see is these incredible, resilient people who are trying to do the right thing every single day. And of course, that weighs on me as I look at this decision. And again, I just. It is Minnesota, through all of this has remained this state of these just wonderful people who there's a reason that those neighbors all ran to the scene and ran to what was clearly danger to try to help. And they're getting yelled at. A doctor trying to get in there to save the day and a police chief trying to calm everyone down against the odds and believing in our state enough to do that. And you know, that would motivate anyone.

[Jen Psaki]

Certainly watching all of those people this week has just been a reminder to all of us of the tremendous humanity and wonderful qualities of the people of Minnesota in this country. Senator Amy Klobuchar, you are always a reminder that people can both be tough as nails and have a huge heart. Thank you so much for being here and speaking with us about all of this tonight.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

We have to sneak in a very quick break, but we are keeping an eye on Minneapolis where protesters are out on the streets tonight continuing to make their voices heard after after Wednesday's shooting. Congressman Dan Goldman is standing by. He's a former prosecutor and he's using that experience to kickstart a new push in Congress to hold ICE officers accountable. We'll be right back.

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well, from roof repair to emergency plumbing and more done well. So the next time you have a home project, leave it to the pros. Get [e-mail] Tyler Redicure from 2311 Racing.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

You think racing's tough?

[Jen Psaki]

Try getting your friends to agree on dinner plans.

[Dan Goldman]

I'm in.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Wait, maybe what time again?

[Jen Psaki]

While they figure that out, I rev.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

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[Jacob Soboroff]

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[Gabby Giffords]

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[Jacob Soboroff]

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[Jen Psaki]

Thanks to TikTok ads, I was able to open up a business with my childhood friend and even hire employees. My name is Julian and I am one of the founders of the Snacks Lab. We are an exotic snack company. We import snacks from all over the world. We had over $100,000 in sales from our TikTok ads in the first month. So our orders went from five a day to over 250 orders a day.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

You definitely have to use TikTok ads.

[Dan Goldman]

TikTok for business is helping owners like.

[Gabby Giffords]

You reach new customers every day. Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTokapps.

[Jen Psaki]

One of the big questions looming after the killing of Renee Nicole Goode is how to hold federal law enforcement accountable. With a White House that says things.

[Gabby Giffords]

Like this, the precedent here is very simple. You have a federal law enforcement official.

[Dan Goldman]

Engaging in federal law enforcement action. That's a federal issue.

[Jen Psaki]

That guy is protected by absolute immunity.

[Dan Goldman]

He was doing his job.

[Jen Psaki]

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman and former prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, Dan Goldman. You were kind of made for moments like this. Let me start with just that claim by the Vice President of the United States who has a Yale law degree. I'm just gonna keep restating that this officer has absolute immunity. Obviously, there's some immunity, and you have a bill, and I want to talk about that. But just break down why that's not the case.

[Dan Goldman]

No, that's not the case. Officers, all law enforcement officers, do not have absolute immunity. They have qualified immunity. But the qualified immunity standard, as it has been developed by the courts, makes it almost impossible to hold officers liable because it is what's called a subjective test, meaning what that officer says he thought at the time, which could be many things, then certainly could be altered by being a defendant or in a. In a particular case. So the vice president is just incorrect about absolute immunity, but he's not wrong about how difficult it is to hold an officer accountable for the brutal killing of Renee Good.

[Jen Psaki]

Well, tell us about what this bill would do, because I think everybody's sort of trying to learn what qualified immunity is, what it all means, and how accountability will be found in this case.

[Dan Goldman]

Yeah, look, there are multiple ways for accountability. You just had a long conversation with Senator Klobuchar, and what's very scary here is the fact that the DOJ is icing out the state and county level investigators. The reason why in this particular administration that is so troubling is that immediately after this incident, Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, Donald Trump all publicly stated that the officer acted legitimately and in self defense. Now we know that Cash Patel, the FBI, Pam Bondi and the DOJ are simply an arm of the president. That is an obvious signal to them. And there is zero chance at this point, and I would bet a lot of money on it, that the FBI would ever consider charging this, this officer with any crimes. And that's why they're IC facing out the state and local investigators. On the flip side, you also have the potential for civil liability, a lawsuit by Renee Good's family, for example. But because of that subjective test, under the current law, it is very difficult to win those cases. So I and Eric Swalwell are introducing a bill that changes that subjective test. So changes the test as to whether what the officer himself thought to an objective test, which is what a reasonable person in that situation would have thought. And as you, as you said, and as we've seen from these videos, and we can go through all the different reasons, it was very clear that she was following the orders of the ICE agent to leave. She backed up. If she really wanted to weaponize her car, why would she back up? Why wouldn't she have just ran into the guy then she was turning the wheel. And this was all after an ICE officer violated her constitutional rights by trying to open her car door, which is her own private area. And so of course, then we see, even after she shot, that the car turns because she was not trying to go into him. So that's what a jury would be looking at, is whether an objective person, not whether Donald Trump, who wants to maintain his immigration dragnet and continue to support these masked ICE agents wreaking havoc and sowing fear and terror in our communities, would think.

[Jen Psaki]

Everybody should take a look at your bill. I think accountability here is something on so many people's minds watching. Congressman Dan Goldman, thank you so much for being here and for what you're doing and pushing out there. Coming up after a quick break, why the hell did Donald Trump's goons terrorize a high school in Minneapolis? I spoke with Senator Amy Klobuchar about this. Well, Jacob Sobroff has been reporting on these guys better than and closer than almost anyone. And he joins me at the table next.

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well. Electrical upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years. So we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality [e-mail] TikTok for business.

[Gabby Giffords]

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[Jen Psaki]

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[Gabby Giffords]

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[Jacob Soboroff]

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[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

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[Jen Psaki]

Try getting your friends to agree on dinner plans.

[Dan Goldman]

I'm in.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Wait maybe what time again?

[Jen Psaki]

While they figure that out, I rev.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

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[Jacob Soboroff]

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[Jen Psaki]

Since Wednesday, classes for all Minneapolis Public Schools have been canceled, not just because of the killing of renegade nay Nicole, but because just hours after that shooting. Officials at a nearby high school tell NPR News that armed Border Patrol officers came on school property during dismissal and began tackling people, handcuffed staff members and released chemical weapons on bystanders. DHS says it arrived at school after a five mile car chase in pursuit of a suspect and were attacked by at least one teacher. Okay. A local resident told NBC News that some of the teachers and schoolworkers were trying to keep the Border Patrol away from the students, telling them to stay off school property. They just pushed the teachers away. One of the few unmasked agents at the scene was none other than Gregory Bevino, the top Border Patrol official leading Trump's immigration crackdowns in cities across the country. And according to that same resident, they were filming this whole thing like it was a reality TV show. Joining me now is someone who has reported extensively on Trump's immigration enforcement operations and Gregory Bevino. Ms. Now senior political and national reporter Jacob Sobroff. He's also author of the new book Firestone Storm the great Los Angeles fires and America's new age of disasters. You were always at the center of kind of everything. This book and your expertise on what's going on now is such an example of that. You've been following the Trump administration's immigration policies from the very beginning. I mean, the documentary you made was, is so beautifully done. I cry every time I watch it. But just a reminder of just the horrors that we've been facing from the beginning. I mention that Minneapolis High School, because this was after Renee Nicole Goode and it's like they seem almost so empowered at this point that after a woman is killed, they went into this high school and Gregory Bevino, who you've covered closely, was there. What does that tell you as you've watched this week?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Thane, thank you for mentioning Separated Errol Morris film. I actually said to my wife today, it's incredible how much that film predicted what's happening on the streets of America today. And when I look at that high school, when I look at what happened to Rene Nicole Goode, these are the consequences, let's talk big picture of trying to institute the largest mass deportation campaign in American history. The stated goal was to model it after DWIGHT D. Eisenhower's 1954 program that deported a million Mexicans and some Americans. And so now what we're seeing, in addition to deportations happening, people being rounded up all over the country. And I've seen it in LA and Chicago and in Charlotte and the halls of 26 Federal Plaza in New York. Now we're seeing American citizens killed in this mass deportation effort. And these are the tactics that we've seen them use all around the country. Greg Vino has gone around with that video crew. I saw it in Chicago, I've seen it in la. They are in it for the content as much as they are in it for whatever mission they have told themselves that they are doing.

[Jen Psaki]

Do you feel, I mean, separated is so heartbreaking and what they did was heart shattering in the first term. Do you feel they're more empowered now on deportations and immigration and their whole approach? It's like they don't think they're gonna be any consequences whatsoever at all.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It's part of the culture. I know. By the way, I just wanna say I know many very good border patrol agents, men and women that I have spent time with along the line on the southwest border who I would consider people that I would know and like, that's fair.

[Jen Psaki]

I was referring to kind of Greg Provino and Trump Steven Miller.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It's Part of the culture. It is ingrained in the culture. There they have a word for hitting migrants over the head with a flashlight. Go read Francisco Canto's the Line Becomes a River. I'm not gonna say it, but it's the noise that it makes. This is just the extrapolation of the decades of deterrence based, bipartisan based immigration policy that treats people who are looking to come here for a better life as criminals, as if they are doing something wrong. And you're watching the most radical extension of it ever play out on the streets of America right now.

[Jen Psaki]

There are so many consequences to this. Federal policy is all intertwined. This is part of what you talk about. And clearly these kinds of operations make it harder, if not important, possible for local officials to provide the kind of services they should be providing and people in their communities need, not just in Minneapolis, but across the country. And in your book Firestorm, you wrote, In June 9, 2025, President Trump threatened to withhold disaster aid from California because of pushback from Governor Newsom about the administration's wide scale and ongoing immigration enforcement operations in Los Angeles. The operations were sweeping up undocumented residents without violent criminal records from all walks of life, such as landscapers, farmers, and the same day laborers who were working to rebuild the city. It's this impact of their cruel policies on the functioning of the city. What lessons, and anybody can read your excellent book Firestorm to learn these.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

But what lessons should we take as we're looking at Minneapolis, as we're looking at this potentially happening in other cities, about the impact of these operations?

[Jacob Soboroff]

It is amazing how in the wake of the fires, the intersection of all of this is so clear to me. And I often say when a huge mass casualty event like this happens or family separation, you get X ray vision to understand the fissures that are beneath our society. After the fires in la, the costliest wildfire event in American history, the undocumented population was uniquely vulnerable. Gavin Newsom said to me, and you can read about it in the book, after I interviewed him for Meet the Press, he pulled me aside off camera and said, I'm worried about the incoming administration's policy priorities on immigration, how they're gonna affect the recovery. Well, guess what? Where are they targeting the most? Home Depot parking lots. Not the worst of the worst, but people who are looking to go out and get an honest day's work. They're going out to the construction sites, the places that are literally the places that will bring Los Angeles back. And as you said, these Policies have real world consequences, including in Los Angeles, where they're trying to recover to this very day. And the Trump administration is making it harder.

[Jen Psaki]

Jacob Soboroff, Firestorm, your new book. Congratulations again. Thank you for being here. You tell such an important story about the intertwined impact of the policies of administration, how to recover from disasters. Thank you again.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Good to see you.

[Jen Psaki]

Coming up, this tragic week in America also marked 15 years since former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot at an event in Tucson. I remember that day so well. My conversation with Gabby Giffords and her husband, Senator Mark Kelly, is next. Fifteen years ago yesterday, Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was holding an event for her constituents in Arizona when a young man attempted to assassinate her, shooting a bullet through her head. In the 15 years since, Gabby has not only navigated a remarkable recovery, but she has dedicated her life to the tireless work of gun violence prevention. I sat down with her and her husband, Senator Mark Kelly, yesterday to talk about all of that and more. Gabby Giffords, Senator Mark Kelly, thank you so much for being here with me today.

[Dan Goldman]

Great to be here.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you. Let me start, Gabby. I mean, I remember the day 15 years ago so distinctly. I was working in the White House and I think like so many people in Washington and around the country, we were all thinking of you, of your team, of your staff. And there was so much love and support for you out there and continues to be. You have had to retrain your body. You've had to walk and retrain your brain to talk. It's really incredible. And this week, of course, marks 15 years since that shooting I mentioned. How are you processing the day?

[Angie Hicks]

I'm okay.

[Jen Psaki]

I'm okay. I'm so busy. A lot of zoom calls.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Work, work, work.

[Jen Psaki]

Yoga twice a week, French horn, Spanish lessons, biking, the gym, pool therapy. And I'm traveling a lot. I'm going to try to remember the number 150 or more than 150 trips you took something along those lines to talk about such an important issue.

[Gabby Giffords]

Yeah. How many, how much time you spend on the road?

[Jen Psaki]

50, 60% on the road, 60% of.

[Gabby Giffords]

The time, traveling around the country, meeting with governors and state legislators, moving this issue forward, passing legislation never.

[Jen Psaki]

And over 700 laws passed, 800 laws passed. The work is hard, but we are building momentum. Senator Kelly, I mean, sometimes I think it is hard to be the spouse of the person who's been through. How are you processing this day?

[Gabby Giffords]

Well, I remember this day 15 years ago much so more vividly than any other day in my life. I remember it more than I remember yesterday. It's one of those kind of events. I was in Houston, Texas, training for my last, what probably may have been my last space shuttle mission, my fourth flight as the commander of Space shuttle Endeavor. And Gabby was in Arizona. And I knew she was going to go do this Congress on your corner. I just talked to her, and then 20, 30 minutes later, I get a phone call from Gabby's chief of staff that says she's been shot. I just assumed because I'm an optimist, you know, maybe she was shot in the arm or something. A little while later, I got another call. She was shot in the head. And at that point, I knew that Gabby's life, my life, a lot of people around us, have been changed forever. You know, I finally get there and I finally see Gabby in the hospital with all these tubes coming out of her and huge bandage and didn't even look like her. And it was a hell for her. It was hell. I mean, it was months.

[Jen Psaki]

What? What? What?

[Angie Hicks]

Chicken. Chicken.

[Jen Psaki]

Chicken.

[Gabby Giffords]

For a while, she could only say a couple words. Those words, what in chicken.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Oddly.

[Gabby Giffords]

And it was a lot of work.

[Dan Goldman]

Over.

[Gabby Giffords]

A year, but it even continues today, 15 years later.

[Jen Psaki]

Let me just ask you about part of the reason you founded the organization you started this is to change the conversation around the topic of guns. And I was involved in politics for 20 years. I remember quite well how difficult this topic was to discuss, even for Democrats back in that period of time. And I think it's important to restate for people how significant it was that you spoke in a primetime address at the Democratic Convention last summer, and you talked about an issue that 15 years ago, 10 years ago, wouldn't have been front and center. How do you see how the conversation has changed the political conversation around guns and gun violence over the last 15 years? We listen to each other. I'm a survivor of gun violence and gun owner. I know we can protect our rights and save lives.

[Gabby Giffords]

That, combined with a lot of hard work by Gabby and her organization and other people who care about this, have moved the needle on this issue pretty far.

[Jen Psaki]

One of the first actions Trump took in office was to roll back, to try to roll back some of the progress that had been made at the federal level. What is. How do you see the impact of that?

[Angie Hicks]

Americans are less safe now.

[Jen Psaki]

We need national leadership to stop gun violence.

[Gabby Giffords]

And Donald Trump clearly is not that national leadership. We need not only on this issue, but on so many others. And, I mean, he has taken this country in the wrong direction on this issue, when he first saw, after he got sworn in, he got rid of the office in the White House that deals with gun violence, just abolished it. Later on, he rescinded through a rescissions package, took away money that we appropriated for mental health to try to reduce.

[Jen Psaki]

We're all saying that mental health is an issue they want to address. Yes, yes.

[Gabby Giffords]

And often they point to. Republicans often point to mental health as the reason why we have this gun violence epidemic. So in the bipartisan Safer Communities act, we put more money in there to provide mental health counseling and treatment for people, especially in rural areas where there's not a lot of treatment. And then he took it away. So he is not helping. And because of that and a lot of other reasons, people are much less safe in their communities.

[Jen Psaki]

One of the strategies your organization has deployed is really focusing on states and work in states. And this is so important, I think, because sometimes people can feel like there isn't enough progress on the federal level. We're obviously living through a difficult time on that front. Talk to me a little bit about the progress in states and why that's so important and what you've seen happen. The Bubbas. The Bubbas. Who are the Bubbas?

[Gabby Giffords]

She's got a group of Bubbas. She's got, you know, gun owners. Gabby's a gun owner. I'm a gun owner.

[Jen Psaki]

You're both gun owners. You talk about this frequently.

[Gabby Giffords]

Yeah, we've always been gun owners. Support the Second Amendment. At the same time, we can't make it easy for felons and domestic abusers and people who are dangerously mentally ill to get guns. So Gabby traveled around with her Bubbas into states like Mississippi and Alabama. They recently worked with the governor and some state legislators in Alabama to get a significant piece of gun legislation passed. In Alabama?

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah. Progress Maine.

[Gabby Giffords]

And in Maine recently, a major ballot initiative on a red on red flag laws. So a lot of stuff happening in.

[Jen Psaki]

The states positively, I remember, as I said earlier, the day of the shooting, but I also remember the outpouring of kind of love and support. You both have to be optimists to do what you do and keep fighting on an issue that is so hard.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Is.

[Jen Psaki]

Do you think that is possible? Do you think that outpouring of humanity is still possible? Yes, yes, yes.

[Gabby Giffords]

Gabby and I are both optimists, and you gotta be. Especially when. Especially when things are really tough.

[Jen Psaki]

I think you have to be an optimist. If you believe change can happen and you believe that government can do something for the public.

[Gabby Giffords]

There are better days ahead.

[Jen Psaki]

Perfect place to end. Gabby Giffords, thank you for all of the work you do. You inspire so many people. Senator Mark Kelly, thank you so much as well.

[Gabby Giffords]

Thank you for having us on.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you. My deep thanks to Gabby Giffords and to Senator Kelly for that conversation. Uplifting one and a tough week. We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight.

[Angie Hicks]

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