← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
With reward and images, authorities engage public in hunt for Kirk shooter
00:51:11
As the manhunt continues for the person who shot and killed conservative activist Charlie Kirk, Alicia Menendez talks with Vaughn Hillyard, MSNBC senior White House correspondent, Ken Dilanian, MSNBC justice and intelligence correspondent, and Marc Santia, MSNBC investigative correspondent, about progress in the investigation so far.
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- [00:00]
Alicia Menendez
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- [02:52]
Ken Delaney
I know you can't say too much here, but is it your understanding that this individual may be close by or still in Utah?
- [03:00]
Commissioner Bo Mason
No idea. We're exploring leads for individuals out of state and individuals that live close by. We literally have persons of interest tips coming in on the tip line that are spanning far, far and wide.
- [03:14]
Alicia Menendez
That is the latest on where this investigation stands ahead of tonight's press conference, which is expected to begin in less than 30 minutes. Joining me now, MSNBC investigative correspondent Mark Santilla, senior White House correspondent Vaughn Hilliard, and justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney. And thank you all so much for being with Mark. I want to go back to that sound this afternoon. You have state officials saying, quote, they have no idea where the shooter might be. What does that tell you about the state of this investigation?
- [03:40]
Mark Santilla
It tells us, and you can also see by the photos that they've disseminated, they're desperate for information. They're trying, Alicia, to figure out who they're looking for. They're looking for that identity at this point. And you heard the police commissioner say they have no idea if he's hiding, if he's on the run. They are looking for that information. What I thought was very interesting this morning, the first press conference, the commissioner said they had excellent video, very good video, very good stills, but they weren't going to release those images to the public. They're going to try to identify that person on their own using technology, be it facial recognition technology, other databases. They said if we don't get that, we'll reach out to the public. They sent the first photos, the photos you saw of the person of interest with the face, with the face straight on face shots, and then nothing. Those leads came up fruitless. They released more photos to the public. So right now, I think, Elisa, you can see there's a desperate search for information. There is that reaching out to the public, cops and community sort of working together, that force multiplier, if you will, hoping for the break in the case.
- [04:48]
Alicia Menendez
Ken, this upcoming press conference, we've been talking about it since this afternoon. Any indication of why the FBI director would fly to Utah to be there in person?
- [04:59]
Ken Delaney
I have some theories about that, Alicia, but first I just want to say I thought it was remarkable that the head of Utah's public safety department just flatly said not only we have no idea where he is, we have no idea who he is, because that's really been left up in the air. The FBI has not been revealing much about the status of their information. And I've heard from sources behind the scenes that there were some promising leads today. And of course, they found the rifle and they've got some other evidence, but. And they've got, obviously these photos. But it's just remarkable that 24 hours later, they don't know where this person is. Even within hundreds of miles. He made very clear he could be close, he could be far away. So that's something worth noting and maybe we'll get more information at this news conference. In terms of FBI Director Kash Patel, it's interesting because his predecessor, Chris Wray, who led the bureau for many, many years, did not tend to do this kind of thing, did not go to the scene of major events and mass shootings. He did go to the Las Vegas shooting early in his tenure, but after that, he sort of let the investigators do their job and he wanted to stay out of the way. Kash Patel runs the FBI much differently. I've been told privately that he has been really anxious and even angry at times about the lack of progress in the investigation and has been raising his voice to subordinates, urging them on. Now, this is a man who doesn't have really any experience running a law enforcement agency before he got this job. So he doesn't really understand how these kinds of manhunts play out. But he's coming to the scene, and he's also a man who likes to post on social media. And he posted inaccurate information last night on social media, saying that they had captured the shooter and then had to retract that statement. So he's coming here with the hopes and with his deputy, Dan Bongino, with the hopes of being in the middle of this investigation and, you know, sort of sending the message that he is in charge.
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Alicia Menendez
And again, that briefing starts at 9:30 Eastern. Vaughn, the president knew Charlie Kirk personally. Does that affect the way the government is handling this investigation right now?
- [07:06]
Vaughn Hilliard
Absolutely. You have somebody who clearly assassinated Charlie Kirk with the intention of doing harm. And not only killing Charlie Kirk, but also this is somebody who was a close friend of so many in this administration, the vice president, J.D. vance. And so undoubtedly, especially knowing that, look, that these public figures intend to take part in his funeral services, that there are, of course, intents on having public gatherings to celebrate the life of Charlie Kirk. Donald Trump this morning said that he was going to give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom and that there would be a big event in Washington D.C. jD Vance arrive to Utah here today and escort the casket of Kirks back to Arizona. We saw him on the tarmac there in Arizona helping carry that casket. The President of the United States suggested that next weekend he will be attending the funeral of Kirk's in Phoenix here. So of course time is of the essence and understanding that Kirk had close relationships with some of the highest government officials. And so there is a moment here where they would, on one hand, of course, to ensure the safety of others, but also to be able to get a better understanding of what the motive clearly was behind this individual. Because with every passing day there is more speculation about who this individual is, what the motivation outside of the attempt to clearly assassinate Charlie Kirk. And one in which we have already heard the President here this evening suggest he has early indications of what the motive may have been. That is not clear what the President is talking about. Don Jr. His son mentioned earlier transgender individuals. It is not clear what he meant about that. And then Tulsi Gabbard here this evening was also talking about the assassination. The President saying that there's a group of lefty lunatics. And so I think that with every passing hour and day, this only becomes more troubling for the safety of the public and of officials, but also of the ability to get an understanding of who this individual was and what their intention was by assassinating Charlie Kirk.
- [09:20]
Alicia Menendez
Mark, I have covered more shootings than I care to admit. And there is always a tension, a push and pull between those who are conducting the investigation. Need cooperation from the public, but need to keep some details very close to the vest. We have a lot of information that's come to light today. The fact that we now have a timeline, the fact that we have photos, we're going to hear in just a few minutes from the FBI about what more they may have garnered. That said, the fact that some of these elements have been released and then pulled back, the fact that there are elements that have been released that some of our own analysts are surprised by, the fact that they are allowing the footprint piece of information that they're saying we have that, that in some ways could signal to a suspect, get rid of your footwear immediately. They now have a clue and are onto you. How much does it complicate an investigation like this to have certain pieces of. Of information floating around?
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Mark Santilla
I think, Alicia, to your point, I think everything released is released intentionally. There are conversations behind the scenes. What are we putting out there. The first images today that we saw were stills of the person of interest face. The most recent photos, Alicia, that you're looking at. It's highlights, right? You take a look at those photos. It's a sweatshirt with an American flag. They're very specific, very deliberate, because investigators want the public to focus on certain things. They have that timeline 28 minutes from the time the person of interest was on campus until the trigger was pulled. Now, even before that was that sweatshirt, Very specific sweatshirt. Did someone remember seeing that maybe off campus, maybe before? Maybe there was a gas station? What stands out? And you look at what investigators are putting out to the public, to the media right now. The sweatshirt with the American flag, the backpack. One of the photos is on the backpack. This photo here, Right? The hat. There's a specific marking on the hat. There's that backpack. There's the hat. There's the American flag sweatshirt. Does that ring a bell? And, Alicia, you also have the public now, and you've covered these cases where there's websleuths, there's that backpack, a very specific backpack with the zippers. You have websleuths. You have people at home who are looking. What kind of backpack is that? Where can you purchase that backpack? I covered extensively the murder of the CEO, the healthcare CEO, right here in Midtown. It took days before an arrest was made. It took days before the NYPD knew who they were looking at. But they would continue to release information and photos as they developed. And you saw little by little breaks in the case. And it relied heavily. They relied heavily on the community. In that case, Luigi Mangione, who was arrested, was identified by a McDonald's worker hundreds of miles away in Altoona, Pennsylvania. And that came days after the CEO was shot and killed here in midtown Manhattan. So these everything, like they're checked investigators we talk to tell us right now, investigators are tracking down several leads. They thought they had several promising leads today. Many of those leads came up empty.
- [12:29]
Alicia Menendez
Well, Ken, we've talked about the photos that have been shared. We've talked about the timeline. I want to be sure we talk about the weapon. The shooter fired a single sh from over 500ft away. It would seem that would require considerable skill. You got multiple law enforcement officials, though, saying it's not a particularly difficult shot for someone to make. Explain to me how that's possible and what it says about the damage someone can inflict with a modern rifle.
- [12:55]
Ken Delaney
Yes, and I'm not sure it's 500ft. I've heard different numbers anywhere from 125 to 500. So. But either way, what Bo Mason, the head of Utah's Department of Public Safety, told Morgan Chesky tonight is that is a shot that an amateur can make. It doesn't require military training or sniper training. It obviously requires some proficiency with a weapon, some kind of practice on a range, particularly one shot. But it's not outside of the realm of possibility that many, many people can make that shot. And again, this was not an assault rifle. Often in these kinds of situations, we're talking about, you know, the nature of the weapon and the fact that there had been an assault weapons ban. This was a hundred year old model of rifle, a bolt action rifle that is used in hunting and other kinds of places. And no one has ever really proposed banning that kind of weapon. But it does just show you the power of long guns because someone with a handgun is not able to make that shot. And someone with a handgun who tried to get close to Charlie Kirk would have encountered his armed security details around the stage. So it's a really unfortunate situation.
- [14:02]
Alicia Menendez
Vaughn, you referenced something earlier and I want to go back to it. The President saying he has some indication about a motive here. Let's take a listen. We'll talk about it on the other side.
- [14:12]
Vaughn Hilliard
Why haven't they found the shooter yet?
- [14:13]
Governor Spencer Cox
Mr. President, are you concerned that it's been 24 hours?
- [14:16]
Alicia Menendez
Well, I hear they're making big progress.
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Michael Feinberg
And we'll have to see what happens.
- [14:19]
Alicia Menendez
Do you have any, do you have any indication of the shooter's motivation, sir?
- [14:24]
Michael Feinberg
I have an indication, yeah, but we'll let you know about that later.
- [14:28]
Alicia Menendez
Listen, right now, Vaughn, we are focused on the shooter. There are lots of questions in this investigation beyond this moment. Where do you think this goes from here?
- [14:39]
Vaughn Hilliard
Right. I think that the understanding what the motivation is. Of course, we know the motivation was to kill and assassinate Charlie Kirk, but I think that the understanding of the layers beneath that, of who this individual was, the catalyst that got this individual to the point, the extent to which mental health issues were involved, the extent to which the ability to buy a gut, all of these factors and variables are important to understanding what led to this moment here and the security deficiencies that allowed him, in that moment, with a firearm, to kill Charlie Kirk. And so when we're talking about the motivation, we are understandably anticipating what will amount to a political fallout from this here and one that could very well be justified in taking place. And it should be whether it was the January 6th attack, whether it was the assassination in Minnesota, whether it was name your political violent event of the last decade. Each of these events, it was important to understand who these individuals were, what motivated them and got them to the point to commit these acts. By and large, if you looked at that university event, people were there peacefully. People were there to hear Charlie Kirk. Others were there to debate Charlie Kirk. But it is important to understand what has led to these individuals in these moments and with every passing day, with a lack of clarity about the specific instances of who these people are and what led them to this moment, there are others that fill the void and fill that space with their own theories about what led somebody to that moment. And so while of course we have seen political violence take the lives and injure people on the left and the right, I think that in this situation, again, it is very important to understand what led this person to this moment at a time in which there are seemingly a greater number of Americans that believe that demonstrations, voting, activism is not enough and that violence is the means to an end for them.
- [16:42]
Alicia Menendez
Von Marquette, I'm going to ask you all to stay with me because again, we are awaiting a press conference from officials on the manhunt for Charlie Kirk's killer. That is coming up 9:30 Eastern. Our breaking news coverage continues after quick break at Maurices. We're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right. The ones that go from work days to weekends and everywhere in between. The ones that simply make you feel good because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. With 25 sizes, five lengths and six denim brands, you've got options and fit experts in every store. To make jean shopping easier, find great jeans starting at $29.90 in stores and@marisa.com possibility means you have a chance.
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Alicia Menendez
Welcome back. At this hour, we're awaiting a live press conference out of Utah where officials will brief on the latest in the investigation is the killing of Charlie Kirk. In the meantime, I want to tell you about this woman, her name Metab said. She is a Muslim woman, changed her entire career path, joined the FBI after the terrorist attacks on 911 in 2001. And up until about a month ago, she was the special agent in charge of the FBI's Salt Lake City field office, meaning she would have been the person leading today's manhunt for Charlie Kirk's killer. But she was forced out, forced to resign. She is part of the unprecedented purge that has happened inside the FBI over the past eight months, a purge that has disproportionately meant the firing of women and people of color. Just yesterday, multiple former top FBI officials filed a lawsuit suing the Trump administration and Trump's FBI director, Kash Patel. The lawsuit alleges that FBI leadership fired these agents in acts of political retribution, even though leaders knew that was illegal. In at least one instance, the lawsuit describes a top agent being asked to take a loyalty test, a test confirming his loyalty to the president to keep his job. The lawsuit alleges that leaders at the FBI, like Cash Patel, are consumed by the political whims of the Trump administration to the point that they are prioritizing political agendas of protecting the American people, focusing more on social media than day to day operations. The FBI declined MSNBC's request for comment on the lawsuit, but former FBI agents and officials have been warning for a while now. All of this means we as a country, we are less prepared for actual emergencies, emergencies when we need a functioning FBI and strong FBI leadership. But consider the immediate aftermath of yesterday's shooting. Normally, the FBI director is as cautious as possible when discussing any active investigation. They defer to regional FBI field offices and local law enforcement. They make sure not to say anything publicly. They are not 100% sure about yesterday. Kash Patel broke both of those norms. Literally minutes before local authorities were scheduled to hold a press conference, Patel posted on social media that a subject was in custody. When local officials were asked questions about the Post minutes later, they couldn't answer them because Patel didn't seem to have communicated with them about it. It turns out that the person Patel posted about was not in fact the shooter. He had spoken too soon. The shooter was still at large. Now tonight, rather than take a back seat to the local authorities in Utah, Patel flew to Utah him to more directly oversee the manhunt. Kendallanean is back with us. Joining our conversation, Michael Feinberg, former FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge. Michael, just give me a sense of how unusual usual it is for the FBI director to fly out to take charge of an investigation like this.
- [21:29]
Michael Feinberg
I have literally never heard of it happening at any point in my career or in the FBI's entire 117 year history. J. Edgar Hoover, from time to time would show up at crime scenes, but it was not under the pretense of taking charge of things or guiding the direction of what was going to happen by the boots on the ground, so to speak. He was there essentially as a figurehead to show that the FBI was taking something seriously. This is not normal. This has not been done by any director in recent memory. It was not the sort of thing Robert Mueller did. It was not the sort of thing Jim Comey did. It was not the sort of thing Chris Wray did. And it definitely was not the sort of thing that any of the individuals who served as acting directors in between them did either.
- [22:25]
Alicia Menendez
Ken, what do you make of this break with precedence?
- [22:29]
Ken Delaney
Well, as I said earlier, Alicia, I did. I was looking at some precedent here, and I did notice that Christopher Wray did visit the site of the Las Vegas shooting, that horrific massacre that happened, I think just a couple of months into his tenure. But that's the only time I could find that he did something like that. It's absolutely the case. The FBI directors tend to let the professionals do their jobs. There's only one political appointee at the FBI, and that's the director. And generally the director has not been a career agent. Louis Freeh being in the 90s, being an exception. But so the directors tend to let the professionals, the agents, people who are trained, conduct the investigations and they tend to manage at a remote, away from the action. And Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, much different. They're podcasters, they're social media figures. They seem to equate leadership with engaging with the public on social media. And you know, look, I hear from people inside the FBI every day who are very, very frustrated with that style of leadership. And then of course, this lawsuit, which essentially was knocked out of the news by this horrific killing of Charlie Kirk, is one of the most incredible lawsuits I've ever read in my life and tells a dramatic story and that every American should be very concerned about.
- [23:43]
Alicia Menendez
I agree with you about that reporting, Ken and Michael, I want you to stay right where you are. Let's bring in Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat from Minnesota. Senator, thanks for being with us. You, of course, thank you. You sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee. We're waiting for this press conference. I wonder about your take on how federal law enforcement has handled this investigation thus far.
- [24:02]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
You know, I gotta say, Alicia, I'm not steeped on what their precedent is, what they usually do. I'm really focused on finding this guy. This is a massive manhunt. And I can't help but harken back and I think about the agents on the ground, the local law enforcement on the ground. I hearkened back to Minnesota, where we lost my friend, former Speaker Melissa Hortman, her husband. It took 48 hours to find that guy. Now, in that case, he had a mask on at the door, and so that made it harder. But then they did get some photos and it greatly helped. So my guess is, with the tip line that they are running right now, that you're gonna get more and more leads. Because part of my focus here is just to say, we've seen this before. It seems you've got this massive crime. How could this happen? Sometimes people think, how could they not catch him yet? Sometimes these people are really methodical. And this guy with the way he planned this crime and that single shot to the neck, I mean, he clearly knew what he was.
- [25:09]
Alicia Menendez
Senator, you referenced Melissa Hortman. You two had a very close relationship. And I just wonder how you are processing the events of the past 24 hours. What you make of the fact that these two things are happening so close together and that there almost seems to be a cultural normalizing of events like this. How are you metabolizing it?
- [25:35]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
Well, actually, it's not about how I'm doing. It's my state. And we not just didn't lose Melissa and get the other legislators shot and lose Melissa's husband. We also had all those kids shot in that church just a few weeks ago. And while that wasn't political victims, they were 8 and 10 year olds. That was a political manifesto that was left from that shooter, including just all purpose hate at Hispanics and blacks and President Trump. And it was just across the board. So it has made me think a lot about what's going on right now. Some of it is guns. You saw an assault weapon. A lot of it's guns used in the church in this case, not an Assault weapon. But it's also about the hate that we see online and how people are imitating these crimes and what triggers them. And I think our country and our leaders have to take a long look at what's going on right now and make a lot of changes in how they're talking to people.
- [26:34]
Alicia Menendez
Can we just stay on that point? Have you been having conversations with your colleagues about what that might look like?
- [26:40]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
Well, I think first of all there are some people who are much more into this very intense rhetoric than others. They're gonna have to look at it. I'm not gonna name names right now, but there are clearly that is going on. Then you have got the platforms themselves that allow misinformation, that allow hate speech, that allow videos. Like I had recently a completely fake AI created video that X would not take down. Meta labeled it and TikTok took it down. It's just across the board, I really believe that we need to have some rules in place or this is just going to continue. And it's not just gonna be about famous people, it's gonna be about everyday people.
- [27:28]
Alicia Menendez
Well, to that point, you had a number of HBCUs across this country that were on lockdown today because of a variety threats to those institutions today. You also had Speaker Johnson saying that House members have approached him in just the past 24 hours asking for enhanced protection. Leadership is working to provide that. Is there a similar push in the Senate for increased security?
- [27:51]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
Yes, and there has been increased security, especially in the last few months after we lost Speaker Hartman. And part of this is that you've got major public events like the one that the tragic shooting of Charlie Kirk. And at that they're clearly gonna have to do better sweeps. It's not just about having the police as valiant as they are right there in the front. There's other events, I will say, that are smaller, that are pop up events. And a lot of what we have come to do, at least I have, is you don't announce where you're going, you just kind of show up there. But there has been increased threats on members of Congress. Get this, Alicia, from 1,000 to 9,000 in just like eight years. A year. 1,000 to 9,000 a year of threats against members of Congress a year. So it's a need for more security at home. There's a lot of security in Washington, but there's much better coordination with local law enforcement. And I think you're gonna see it strong over the coming few weeks.
- [28:55]
Alicia Menendez
I think it's important to open the aperture on this conversation. And I'm glad that we had a chance to do that, especially as we await that press conference that you can see in the corner of your screen happening any moment now in Utah. We're going to bring that to you as soon as we have it. But the. But speaking to that point, Senator, I wonder what you make of FBI Director Patel's decision to come to Utah today to come to the scene ahead of this press conference.
- [29:19]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
Well, let's see what he has to say. I, of course, had issues with him, strong issues, during his confirmation hearing. But honestly, Alicia, I am so focused on making sure that we find this madman before he hurts someone else. And that is what I'm sure most of the nation is curious to see. And whether it's against precedent or not, I just want to get the facts and I want to get this guy. And we can look at all of it later.
- [29:47]
Alicia Menendez
Senator Amy Klobuchar, I so appreciate your being with us this evening. Thank you so much.
- [29:53]
Senator Amy Klobuchar
Thank you.
- [29:54]
Alicia Menendez
Speak to me, Mark, about this investigation, about a press conference like this, the amount that they are able to share the questions that you have going, and.
- [30:04]
Mark Santilla
You just want to hear what the senator was saying.
- [30:07]
Michael Feinberg
Who is this person?
- [30:08]
Mark Santilla
What do you have? I think it'll be telling to see. Will they release more pictures? Will they release video? If it's video, what kind of video will it be? What will be their messaging to the public? As you said yesterday, they had a person of interest in custody and then they were released. And a person of interest in custody and they were released. So there's a little bit of give and take here. I think the public wants to hear something and they want to hear one voice. I think that's the big thing. Even this evening, there was a press conference that was delayed, that was rescheduled. But again, investigations also, Alicia, they're fluid. So I think the American public is understanding of that, but I think they want to hear one voice, and I think they want. And there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. But in all fairness, there might just be a lot of questions at this point. You heard the commissioner earlier. They don't know if the person of interest is hiding or if they're on the run. There are a lot of questions, which is why you saw that $100,000 reward from the FBI for any information leading to an arrest. You saw multiple photographs, multiple still images of the person of interest disseminated to the media and to the public. Because there are a lot of lingering questions right now, Alicia, and hopefully this press conference will have some answers.
- [31:23]
Alicia Menendez
Michael? Well, I think it's safe to presume you're the only one of the four of us who has been in the rooms where these conversations happen. Can you just sort of pull back the curtain for us and what the coordination actually looks like in the lead up to a press conference like this one, where there is a push and pull between the information that can be shared, the public's appetite for that information, and details that are critical to keep within a confined group at this time, of course.
- [31:52]
Michael Feinberg
So I think it's important to note, though, that the traditions and the sort of templates by which these conversations happen and these decisions are made have really been upended over the past few months. It was always thought within the FBI, save for a few very notable historical exceptions, which were very rare, that the FBI speaks through indictments, it speaks through arrests, it speaks through criminal complaints. FBI executives have been traditionally very loathe to divulge information about an ongoing investigation, unless divulging that information was going to generate new leads which could help move the case forward. But what we're seeing now is an intense focus on the cases that are the most politically salient for Patel and Bongino's higher ups within the executive branch, whether it's the DAG or the AG or the president. And so that's why, for the first time, really, you see Director Patel tweeting about things as they're happening, like we saw in the John Bolton raid, like we saw last night. And as a result, it's really hard to predict what this press conference is going to look like, because the individuals who are going to be running it and planning it are not playing by the same norms and traditions that their predecessors did.
- [33:24]
Alicia Menendez
Well, it is also Kundalini and where the story we were talking about before we spoke with the senator and the moment we find ourselves in intertwined, we were talking about that lawsuit that's been brought against the FBI and specifically against Kash Patel. Part of that reporting saying that really it's Stephen Miller, it's Emil Bovey who's calling the shots. Within the FBI, it is often Kash Patel operating as some type of intermediary, and a lot of field agents expressing frustration generally with the state of the FBI when it comes to this investigation. I just wonder if you have spoken with any field agents about how they believe this is unfolding.
- [34:03]
Ken Delaney
Not about this specific investigation, Alicia. This is tightly held. The information flow has not been great about this, as evidenced by the fact that Kash Patel mistakenly said that they had caught the suspect last night. But in general, you're absolutely right. This just so people understand, this lawsuit brought by three experienced investigators, FBI agents with decades of experience, including the former acting director, the man that Donald Trump's administration picked to lead the FBI before Kash Patel was confirmed. So he was in the room. This lawsuit describes a situation that we have never seen in this country, a total politicization of the FBI. Now it's a lawsuit. These are allegations, but these are men who you can imagine, they were in all these meetings. They knew their positions were tenuous. I am confident they took good notes that they have evidence to back up what they are asserting in this lawsuit. And there's a lot of public reporting done by us and other people that back up what they're saying, which is that Cash Patel and Dan Bongino are taking marching orders from the White House, from Stephen Miller. That is not supposed to happen. The FBI has a tradition of being independent, particularly since Watergate and particularly about criminal investigations. So much so that for years, for decades, really, there's been a contacts policy restricting who in the White House can talk to people at the Justice Department and the FBI about criminal investigations. That's clearly out the window in this administration. And this lawsuit quotes Kash Patel as essentially saying, I have to fire people for political reasons. People have been targeted by MAGA activists on social media in order to keep my job. That's the price of his leadership of the FBI, again, according to this lawsuit. And a lot of rank and file, current and former agents that I speak to every day are deeply, deeply troubled by this. It's not affecting every part of what the FBI does. The FBI is a huge organization. It operates in the field offices. It's still enforcing the law, but it is affecting priorities. For example, people are being diverted to immigration enforcement. People are being diverted to violent crime patrols. Political corruption prosecutions are not happening. White collar fraud is not being pursued. A foreign influence task force has been disbanded. So this is a huge moment in the history of the nation's premier law enforcement agency. With so much else going on, sometimes that gets lost. And this lawsuit really brought it to bear.
- [36:23]
Alicia Menendez
Lisa so, for those of you who are just joining us, I want to reference that box on the bottom of our screen. We are waiting for an update on the state of the investigation into this manhunt. As soon as we have it, we're going to bring it to you. Michael to that point that Ken just made about priorities and the sprawling nature of the FBI, just in the past 24 hours, you've seen a deluge of threats, right? You were just talking about it with Senator klobuchar. You've seen HBCUs campuses shut down. You've seen members of Congress say, we're going to need additional security because we're already sensing that threats are on the rise. How does the FBI assess that? That playing field of threats? What is legitimate, what is not, and where to put their resources?
- [37:10]
Michael Feinberg
Well, again, I hate to keep harping on the same point, but there's the way that that's been done throughout my career, and there's the way it's being done now. And if our viewers are interested in what's happening in the present day FBI, I can say with authority, what's happening is what the White House wants. I was the acting Special agent in charge of my field office for the entire transition and for the first few months of Patel's tenure as director and Bongino's tenure as Deputy Director. And they were laser focused, really, on three issues. The first was culling out of the Bureau anybody they found politically suspect. The second was micromanaging the Bureau's media relations so that it would stop dealing with legacy and mainstream media and dealing more with podcasters and politically oriented outlets. And the last and greatest focus for them, because it was under Stephen Miller's orders, were to reorient the entire Bureau towards immigration enforcement. So the other investigative areas have been utterly decimated. The Bureau has moved 20% of its workforce of its agents to immigration enforcement. To give you an idea of the scale of that magnitude, that's more agents than were moved to terrorism after 9, 11. So when you are moving that amount of people and you are not getting an increase in your budget or in your personnel numbers, by definition, things are going to fall through the cracks. And when that's combined with a Department of justice wide deprioritization of the domestic terrorism mission, this is what happens. Agents aren't out there recruiting sources. They're not maintaining tripwires. They're not able to keep their ear to the ground about what's happening among extremist movements. And as a result, the extremists have more latitude to do things that harm our society.
- [39:21]
Alicia Menendez
Yes. And as a result, we are all less safe. All right, everyone stay put. We're still awaiting this press conference from officials on the update of this manhunt. Do not go anywhere. If you're looking for new ways to get ahead, then you're our kind of person. We're Udemy, and we help learners like you upskill in AI productivity, leadership and management and more. Learn at your own pace from real world experts. You can also prep for certifications that show employers what you know upskill for the career you want@udemy.com now back to your regularly scheduled listening at Maurices. We're all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you just right, the ones that go from work days to weekends and everywhere in between. The ones that simply make you feel feel good. Because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. With 25 sizes, five lengths and six denim brands, you've got options and fit experts in every store. To make jean shopping easier, find great jeans starting at 29.90 in stores and@marisa.com Ah, DSW Earth, place of the humble brag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that it. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, we'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or@dsw.com Let us surprise you. Any moment now, we're expecting a live press briefing by state and federal law enforcement officials on the investigation into the killing of right wing activist Charlie Kirk. We're going to bring that to you as soon as it begins. Back with me, MSNBC investigative correspondent Mark Santilla, justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney, and Michael Feinberg, former FBI assistant special agent in charge. And joining our conversation on the campus at Utah Valley University is NBC's Jay Gray. Jay, what can you tell us about the scene there?
- [41:37]
Ken Delaney
Yeah, Alicia, let's talk first about those who are showing up, and they continue to show up. There's a small makeshift memorial here, a lot of people with sign, some outside camera view, but they're saying we're not afraid. They're here to support Charlie Cook and just want to make their presence known. I think this area overall is really Alicia, still in shock. And you can understand that the shooting at a gathering of 3,000 or more streets students all shocked by what happened and they just haven't gotten to the point where they've worked through that. And I think a lot of people, not only here in Utah, but across the country feel the same way. As for what we're seeing on the ground as far as this investigation, we know that earlier in the day, the press conference that we're waiting on was delayed due to the fact that they said they had rapid developments, that's their words, in the investigation into this shooting and the manhunt for the suspect in this case. We expect to see Kash Patel speaking tonight. He has been on the ground here for over an hour. He has toured the crime scene along with the director of the Department of Public Safety here in Utah, and he's been talking with agents who have been working since the attack. So we expect to hear from him as well as local law enforcement to this point. The latest update we've gotten is a written statement from DPS here saying that they are following multiple leads, but that no one is in custody at this point. So that's something we'll be watching closely as well. And a lot of people here on edge, anxious to find out what they can about this investigation and the search for that suspect.
- [43:16]
Alicia Menendez
A lot of people all across this country eager to learn more. And you made a point to me, Mark, that I think is very important, which is we talk about this as though there is one investigation. In reality, there are multiple investigations playing out at the same time.
- [43:29]
Mark Santilla
Absolutely. You tend to lean on like a sports team. You lean on different strengths. There are different weaknesses and different wheelhouses. Right. So in this investigation, we know that police tell us that a weapon was recovered in the woods. That weapon is being looked at. It's being analyzed. I spoke with a retired ATF agent today who said, said, look, the bullet can tell a story. The casing that holds the bullet can tell a story, and the actual gun can also tell a story. So they're looking at that, and people are working together.
- [43:59]
Alicia Menendez
Right.
- [44:00]
Mark Santilla
You have the FBI working with ATF and locals. And the retired ATF agent said to me, even if the serial number on that weapon is obliterated, ATF agents have techniques, they have technology to possibly raise that serial number. So you have that aspect. You also have, and you mentioned you have the palm print, the forearm print, and the footwear impression that was found. Those are being analyzed. And then, of course, you have video surveillance teams that go out, that collect video, that reach out to the public. So that's being looked at, and then you have the photos that were released. So you have that. You also have, what's interesting, the FBI. FBI agents are working that tip line. It's a nationwide tip line. 1-800-call-FBI call. There's a $100,000 reward for any information leading to an arrest. So you have FBI Agents who are sort of triaging those calls, they come in, they kick them out. What team can trace down and track down that lead? And so you have this sort of spoke, this sort of feeding and funneling of information and tip calls. So you're right, you have multiple investigations within one, within that umbrella of investigations. And we're hoping to hear again very soon from FBI Director Patel and from the team on where they stand in this investigation.
- [45:15]
Alicia Menendez
Michael this could begin in about a minute, so you will forgive me if I have to interrupt you, but I want to talk about that reward that the FBI is offering, $100,000. The last we heard, they had about 200 tips so far. Does that seem to you to say anything, anything you can glean from that number? MICHAEL.
- [45:34]
Michael Feinberg
No, because the number of tips that you're going to get are so dependent upon the unique aspects of the geographic area in the city where an event occurred. So you'd really have to compare it to things like population density, number of individuals who were at the event and so on and so forth.
- [45:53]
Alicia Menendez
MICHAEL we have a number of officials at the podium as you are speaking. We are waiting for them to begin their remarks. They do not seem ready to go. But you will forgive me if I have to interrupt you in a moment.
- [46:07]
Michael Feinberg
Of course, all I was going to say is that it is very common to.
- [46:11]
Governor Spencer Cox
Hi, everybody.
- [46:11]
Alicia Menendez
Thank you for being here today. My name is Hilary Kellner. I am the Communications Director for the Utah Department of Public Safety. This evening we have FBI Director Patel, FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, Special Agent in Charge Rob Robert Bowles, Governor Spencer Cox, Lieutenant Governor Deidre Henderson, and Commissioner Anderson, as well as. I'm so sorry, Commissioner. Commissioner Bo Mason, as well as some local partners here present with us today. Governor will kick it off.
- [46:41]
Governor Spencer Cox
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us here tonight. We appreciate the media and the partnership we have with you in helping us to get information information out to the public so that we can, we can catch this assassin and and hold him accountable. We we are going to to share a a portion of a video and that we have of the of the the suspect, as well as some new stills. Those have already been released, but we want to make sure that they get as much attention as possible so the that we can get help from the public in tracking down this evil human being. So we're going to queue up the video right now, show that. I've asked Commissioner Bo Mason if he would narrate to you what is happening in this video.
- [47:36]
Commissioner Bo Mason
Thank you, Governor Bo Mason, Commissioner for the Utah Department of Public Safety. If you look up to the top left, you'll see see the building where the shooter was proned out in the top left corner. We'll go ahead and play that video and I'll narrate as we walk through that. So here you see the suspect ran behind that upper building. He's going to come out on the right, moves to this far right corner. As he does, he's going to climb off the edge and then dropped down to the ground. As he did that, he left some palm impressions. There's some smudges. Some places we're looking to collect DNA. There's a shoe imprint where we believe the suspect is clearly identified as wearing Converse tennis shoes. Again, we'll replay that again so you can get another view of that. It's important to note his black T shirt, his black pants, and there appears to be some white on the soles of those Converse tennis shoes. Those are all identifiable items that we're looking for. In the stills that are going to follow this, you're going to see a very distinctive T shirt with an American flag and appears to have an eagle on it. There's also a baseball cap with a triangle on it and a pair of sunglasses, all distinctive. All things that we would ask the public to look for and try to identify if they know someone who has those items, who has been seen wearing those items. We're looking for all that information here. You see the suspect after dropping off the building, he moved around across this grassy area around the parking lot. We're going to pan to the right after he crosses the street. This is where he moves over into the wooded area. This is the video evidence that we utilize to track his movements and to locate that firearm in that wooded area following the discovery of this evidence. Good, you want to go to the stills. So here's the still photographs I mentioned. These have been enhanced. So these are slightly different than what we introduced earlier. Please pay close attention to the T shirt. Like I said, very distinctive with that American flag and that eagle. The hat with the triangle and the sunglasses. If you'll go to the next picture, please. The backpack as well. All identifying features that we're hoping the public can help us identify and lead us to this suspect. Next picture. And again, there's a better picture of the hat with that triangle logo. And again the T shirt, blue jeans. And you get a good look at those, those Converse tennis shoes as well. We have pushed these out. We'll continue to push these out. And we just Ask for the public's cooperation through the public. The tips that have been coming in are what are giving us our next leads and enabling us to continue to further this investigation. We've had great cooperation from the public, and we're continuing to ask for that as we move forward.
- [50:47]
Alicia Menendez
Forward.
- [50:47]
Commissioner Bo Mason
Thank you. And I'll turn time back over to Governor Cox.
- [50:51]
Governor Spencer Cox
Thank you so much, Commissioner Mason. I want to. I want to thank Director Patel and his team. It's great to have them on the ground with us tonight. We've had several briefings, and he's had an opportunity to. To walk the crime scene. We. We appreciate our. Our local law enforcement here again. We have. We have Mike Smith, who is the. The county sheriff here. We have all of our local. Local chiefs of police that are here as well, all working hand in hand with the state and with the FBI as we. As we move forward with this investigation now, just give you a little warning. We will not be taking any questions at this time. We're giving you the latest information we have, being as transparent with everything that we have. But I do want to share a couple things that I think are important. Important. We cannot do our job without the public's help. Right now. The public has answered our call for action. So far, we've received more than 7,000 leads and tips. I would just note that the FBI hasn't received this many digital media tips from the public since the Boston Marathon bombing. This case also highlights the dedication of our law enforcement community. We have 20 federal, state, and local law enforcement partners that are working shoulder to shoulder to find the person who committed this horrific crime. With their support, We've completed nearly 200 interviews. As you're aware, as has already been reported, the FBI is offering a $100,000 reward for information leading to the identification and arrest of the person responsible for the murder of Charlie Kirk. We also continue to implore the public to support this investigation and come forward with any information. We are truly hopeful that this video and new photos will lead to even more tips. We are processing. We have an incredible team, a state and federal team working together to process those tips. We are going out in tandem to interview any potential person of interest or suspects. But we need, again, we need as many, as much help as we can possibly get. Any videos or photos that you might have, the public should be submitted to our digital media tip line, which is www.FBI.gov Utah Valley ShootingAll lowercase. Again, that is FBI.gov Utah Valley Shooting all lowercase. You can also provide general tips about the shooting by calling one of the 1-800- call FBI. That's 1-800-C A L L F B I or at tips.FBI.gov this is, I would just say this is not just a local matter here in Utah. We have people all over the country that are helping to bring this perpetrator to justice. For Charlie Kirk and his family. I will just add as well that as was mentioned, there is, there is a lot of forensic evidence that is being processed right now at both the state lab and federal lab in on the east coast. So we are working in tandem together. I would also just add a word of note for those people who are spending so much time on social media. I think Charlie said it best that when things get bad we should put our phones down and spend a little time with our families. There is a tremendous amount of disinformation. We are tracking our team, the state team and I'm sure the federal team as well. What we're seeing is our adversaries want violence. China, we have bots from Russia, China, all over the world that are trying to instill disinformation and encourage violence. I would encourage you to ignore those, to, to turn off those streams and, and to spend a little more time with, with our families. We desperately need some healing. We'll have more to say about that in the, in the days and weeks to come. More than anything, we are going to catch this person. Last thing I will just say is we've been working with our attorneys getting, getting everything that we need as affidavits ready so that we can pursue the, the death penalty in this case. And that will happen here in the the state of Utah.
- [55:13]
Michael Feinberg
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week she sits down with activist Stacy Abrams.
- [55:27]
Alicia Menendez
My mission is to activate the potential in everyone else. This is our country, this is our fight and we can win.
- [55:34]
Michael Feinberg
The Best People with Nicole Wallace Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.