'& Juliet' Hits the Road!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Broadway Show: Uncut" – Episode: '& Juliet' Hits the Road!

Release Date: December 4, 2024

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Introduction

In this vibrant and comprehensive episode of “The Broadway Show: Uncut,” host Tamsen Fadal delves into the exhilarating national tour of “& Juliet,” a modern twist on Shakespeare’s classic tale of Romeo and Juliet. This musical infusion blends timeless storytelling with contemporary pop anthems, offering audiences a fresh and entertaining take on a beloved narrative. The episode features in-depth conversations with David West Reed, the Emmy-winning writer behind the musical, and Paloma Young, the Tony-winning costume designer responsible for the show's spectacular visual flair.

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Spotlight on David West Reed: From Broadway to TV and Back

Timestamp [00:05 - 20:08]

Tamsen Fadal opens the episode by introducing “& Juliet,” highlighting its unique blend of Shakespearean drama with modern pop music hits such as “Baby One More Time,” “Since You’ve Been Gone,” and “Roar.” She teases an upcoming segment with costume designer Paloma Young before transitioning to her first guest, David West Reed, known for his work on the acclaimed TV series “Schitt's Creek.”

Career Journey and Resilience

At [00:51], David reflects on his aspirations and experiences in Broadway:

“I’ve always wondered what it’s like to just be able to, like, I’m gonna drop by the theater and see audiences delighted by my work.” ([00:52])

He candidly shares his earlier setback with the Broadway show “The Performers,” which opened in 2012 but closed merely four days after its debut due to unforeseen circumstances like Hurricane Sandy:

“Every time I see a poster or a digital thing on a taxi cab, I’m still like, that’s my show.” ([01:30])

David discusses the emotional toll of the show's closure and his journey through professional uncertainty:

“It really didn’t seem like I would get another chance to be on Broadway.” ([03:12])

His perseverance led him to television, where he contributed to “Schitt's Creek,” eventually catching the attention of the producers of “& Juliet.” This transition underscores his resilience and adaptability in the face of adversity.

Creating “& Juliet”: A Fusion of Shakespeare and Pop

David elaborates on the conception of “& Juliet,” emphasizing the collaboration with pop icon Max Martin:

“Max was in every workshop. He was so kind and patient and just soaked up this whole Broadway process.” ([06:07])

He explains the musical's premise—using Max Martin’s extensive catalog of pop songs to reimagine Shakespeare’s narrative, allowing for creative flexibility while maintaining high standards:

“Max wanted something really different. So I said, how about this Shakespearean story?” ([07:09])

David shares insights into the dynamic and iterative writing process, where songs were continually swapped and reimagined to fit the evolving storyline:

“It was this amazing sandbox to say, we need a song for this moment. How about this one?” ([11:31])

Expanding Horizons: Roy Orbison Musical “In Dreams”

Beyond “& Juliet,” David discusses his upcoming project, “In Dreams,” a stripped-down, intimate musical based on Roy Orbison’s catalog:

“Roy Orbison’s music is so musical theater. It’s operatic, full of emotion and pain and heartache.” ([16:09])

He highlights the distinct tonal shift from “& Juliet” to “In Dreams,” showcasing his versatility as a writer.

Advice for Aspiring Writers

David offers valuable advice for young writers:

“Create the things that you would want to go see. Never be chasing what you think people want and just focus on what you would want to see yourself.” ([17:33])

His mantra emphasizes authenticity and passion over market trends, encouraging writers to pursue their creative visions unapologetically.

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Behind the Scenes with Paloma Young: Costumes that Tell a Story

Timestamp [20:15 - 42:36]

Transitioning to the show's visual elements, Tamsen introduces Paloma Young, the esteemed costume designer for “& Juliet.” In her conversation with Beth Stevens, Paloma delves into the intricate process of blending Elizabethan attire with modern pop culture aesthetics.

Design Philosophy and Inspiration

At [21:47], Paloma explains her approach to melding historical and contemporary styles:

“We approached the design of the show as styling—like a fashion magazine spread, mixing high and low elements.” ([21:47])

She emphasizes the importance of allowing characters to express individuality through their costumes, reflecting both their Shakespearean roots and modern influences:

“Each character has pieces that have been around since the 16th century, mixed with contemporary streetwear.” ([23:00])

Research and Execution

Paloma details her extensive research process, drawing from Elizabethan and Renaissance fashion, modern streetwear, and iconic pop star looks. She shares specific examples, such as Juliet’s outfit inspired by Britney Spears’ denim ball gown:

“Juliet’s jumpsuit is a homage to Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake’s iconic denim ensemble.” ([31:26])

Durability and Practicality

Addressing the practical challenges of Broadway productions, Paloma discusses the necessity of creating durable costumes that withstand rigorous performances:

“We wanted costumes that look broken in but are hearty enough to be danced in eight times a week.” ([38:21])

She highlights the innovative solutions her team employed, such as adding stretch panels to corsets and using ballet bodice structures for added flexibility.

Easter Eggs and Character Storytelling

Paloma incorporates subtle design elements that serve as Easter eggs for attentive audience members. For instance, Anne Hathaway’s character is symbolized by the wild country rose, contrasting Shakespeare’s Tudor roses:

“Anne has a primrose tattoo, directly opposite Shakespeare’s Tudor roses.” ([40:06])

These details enrich the narrative, providing depth and additional layers of meaning to the visual storytelling.

Audience Recommendations

Paloma encourages new audience members to engage deeply with the show, appreciating both its vibrant party atmosphere and the nuanced costume designs:

“Come see this show because it always feels like a party. It appeals to every age group, especially young people.” ([41:32])

She underscores the show's universal appeal, making it accessible and enjoyable for both theater enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

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Conclusion

This episode of “The Broadway Show: Uncut” offers an insightful exploration of “& Juliet,” shedding light on its creative genesis, the resilience of its writer David West Reed, and the visionary costume design by Paloma Young. Through engaging interviews and behind-the-scenes revelations, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the intricate artistry that brings this innovative musical to life. Whether you're a seasoned theatergoer or new to Broadway, this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about the magic of live performance.

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Key Quotes:

• David West Reed on feeling supported by Schitt's Creek:
  “God, I’m worried about that guy. And then I was like, oh, he works at Schitt's Creek. I’m not worried about him.” ([01:56])

• David West Reed on the creative process of "In Dreams":
  “Roy Orbison’s music is so musical theater. It’s operatic, full of emotion and pain and heartache.” ([16:09])

• Paloma Young on costume design approach:
  “We approached the design of the show as styling—like a fashion magazine spread, mixing high and low elements.” ([21:47])

• Paloma Young on the show's vibe:
  “It always feels like a party. It appeals to every age group, especially young people.” ([41:32])

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Tune In: To catch more behind-the-scenes insights and extended interviews with Broadway’s biggest stars, visit www.thebroadwayshow.com or watch the Emmy Award-winning program airing in 140 television markets across the US.

Transcript

[Tamsen Fadal]

Thanks for being here. For another stacked episode of the Broadway show Uncut, I'm Tamsen Fadal, and this time we're talking about Shakespeare's hilarious pop music rewrite. The national tour of Anne Juliet. It's coming soon to a city near you. The musical puts a new twist on the story of the Romeo and Juliet heroine. It features a whole lot of pop anthems, you know, and love like Baby, One More Time since youe've Been Gone, Roar. And so many more. Plus some pretty spectacular costumes coming up in just a few, you'll hear from the Tony winning costume designer, Paloma Young. But first, Anne Juliet is written by Emmy winner David West Reed. You might know him as one of the writers and executive producers of Schitt's Creek. Paul Wontorek. Talk to David West.

[Paul Wontorek]

Reid.

[David West Reed]

David, how you doing?

I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm very good. What's it like having, like, a hit on Broadway with your name? I mean, you can like. I've always wondered what it's like to just be able to, like, I'm gonna drop by the theater and see. See audiences delighted by my work. I mean.

I mean, I've always wondered that too. Yeah. What is that like? It's really strange. I've had a show on Broadway that was the opposite of this, you know, that was really not a hit. And so I always kind of dreamed of the opposite experience. And just. I'm still such a geek about it. And just walking around the city, every time I see a poster or a digital thing on a taxi cab, I'm still like, that's it.

That's my show.

That's my show.

[Paul Wontorek]

That's my show.

[David West Reed]

There's a lot of apps just grabbing strangers and telling them that I wrote that. Yeah, it's really, really cool.

You brought it up right away. So I have to bring it up. You did write another show. The performers opened in 2012. It was one of the funniest shows I've ever seen on Broadway. It was hilarious. Everyone I know loved it. And then it closed four days later. So it was a huge flop. I'm assuming you've embraced that word now.

I have.

Okay. But I've been worried about. I was worried about you. And then I remember at one point being like, God, I'm worried about that guy. And then I was like, oh, he works at Schitt's Creek. I'm not worried about him.

Yeah, I mean, it was. I've stopped crying about it now, but it was pretty rough because I wrote the performers. I was still a student and everything about it was so wild and unexpected. I was still in my 20s and people were like, not only do we want to produce this comedy about porn stars at an award show, but we want to produce it on Broadway with no other. No off Broadway tryouts.

And Henry Winkler. And a great cast.

Amazing cast. Henry Winkler, Cheyenne Jackson, Ari Grain or Alicia Silverstone. Incredible cast. And we were having so much fun and I thought the audiences were loving it. Then Hurricane Sandy hit the city and people couldn't even get into New York, let alone into the theaters. So it was a lesson in how fragile and special all of this is. It can all go away. And I've tried to just enjoy every step of the process this time instead of always thinking ahead. Cause I feel like my first time rounds, it was just like. And then it'll be really great when we get to this. And now I just. Every night is like a treat. So it's pretty cool to be here again.

So what happens immediately after something like the performers close? Like, what did you do? How did you take care of yourself? Right after that it was. You were like right out of school.

Yeah.

Up and coming writer, very high profile. So what was like the immediate thing? This is good lesson for people because you clearly turned into a success story.

Well, I mean, I really did feel like the door closed. Like there were all these people who were around me and were excited. And then when the show closed, it was like, like cockroaches when the light goes on, kind of scattering. And I was left there feeling like it was somehow my fault. And it was like, what if I never get another chance? It really didn't seem like I would get another chance to be on Broadway. And then I took this circuitous path back where someone at my agency said, we're looking for Canadian writers for this new show called Schitt's Creek. And I happened to be a Canadian writer and just submitted a sample and started at the low, lowest level in TV and worked my way up there. And then from my work on that show, I got the attention of the producers of Ann Juliet and was able to get the opportunity to pitch on Ann Juliet and then to come back to Broadway this way. So It's a full 10 year gap between these shows and the stories of the two shows couldn't be more different. But I do enjoy talking about the failure of it now because I had people at times saying, you got it out of the way. Way. You know, it's. Everyone has something like this. And now I'm lucky enough to feel like, okay, I had my failure, and I can call it that and call it a flop because I've come out the other side of it. But it wasn't easy at the time.

Were you able to immediately be creative again and to sort of keep writing?

And I kept writing all the time. It's just that no one wanted to produce it. And there is sometimes there's a feeling of this community can be really welcoming and accepting and celebrate you. And sometimes it's like, how do I get in once I'm out? And you do have to just. Everyone carves their own path. And for me, it was spending some time in TV and working on another muscle. But I always loved the theater and dreamt of coming back. So it's really, really great to be here again.

You're doing well with the TV thing.

I'm doing all right.

Schitt's Creek is like a legendary show now. It was amazing to watch how it became over every season. It just sort of grew and grew and grew, and now it's just like one of the greats, which is incredible. So, obviously, TV's treating you well. The big door prize is a big hit on Apple plus. Apple TV Plus. I can't say it right. A big hit on Apple tv. You have another TV show with some great guys. Just say their names.

Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson.

These are the kind of people you're working with.

A couple of nobodies. So I'm bringing the star power to that project for sure.

And obviously, and Juliet, you have another new musical starting. Roy Orbison Songs. This is. You have a lot.

I do have a lot.

A lot going on.

It's overwhelming, but if you've been through a period of having nothing, working and just writing with and desperately trying to get something into production, you know. You know that you have to take advantage, strike while the iron's hot. So I have a little too much on my plate right now, but it's a great plate, and I'm enjoying this plate right now.

It's incredible. So. And Juliet. So I think. Here's what I know about this. So Max Martin is a guy who I've never heard of until very recently. And then I was like, oh, my God, he wrote all these songs. He wrote all of those amazing pop songs. His estate wanted to make a musical, right? Or his team wanted to make a musical, and then they were looking for writers to present ideas.

Well, wanted to make a musical, which was one of the things that was so cool about it to me is because there are. You often hear of, like, the estate of someone wants to make a musical and you think maybe that person will show up on open night. Right.

This was him.

This was him and his wife. It was his wife's idea, who was also a producer. And is she a big fan of.

Mamma Mia or like, what kind of.

They're Swedish, but not really. They were just kind of like, this would be something you haven't done. Which is. One of the ways he's stayed relevant is as pop music evolves, he keeps evolving and he loves challenging himself. But it was daunting because I was told from the beginning, you know, Max, if he isn't happy with this, he could pull the plug at any moment until opening night. So it's a lot of pressure. And I just knew he was really nervous, not for his own reputation, but because of all the artists who have worked with him who are represented in the show, that he didn't want that them down by doing something that wasn't up to his standard. But Max was in every workshop. He was in all the auditions, watching everyone sing Baby, One More Time. And not everyone was great, I could say now. And he was so kind and patient and just soaked up this whole Broadway process. And I learned so much about what makes him as successful as he is because he's so smart and he picked it up so fast, and he suddenly was like the smartest Broadway person or musical theater person in the room. So he said, I want to do something with my catalog. Here are the songs, about 250 pop songs that you've heard. You could make 10 musicals with it. And there were no parameters other than he didn't want it to be the story of a boy band or a young pop star. He wanted something really different. And so I said, how about this Shakespearean story?

Okay, so literally you could have gone in any direction. And were you familiar with. I mean, there's kind of a good legacy of Shakespeare spoof, right? Or things that jump off. I mean, there's no rights to deal with. Right?

With Shakespeare, that was one of the.

So that's like the first great thing.

I don't have to get the rights, but yeah. I mean, not only are there so many adaptations and reimaginings of Shakespeare, but even Shakespeare was doing that in his own time. All his stuff was borrowing from multiple places. So it was like a classic story of young love and heartbreak. Romeo and Juliet, written by the greatest pop writer of his time, which is the Thing I didn't say to Max in the beginning, but then I started to talk about more and more that you're like the Shakespeare of pop music.

I mean, that is a great. I've heard that marketing hook. But you had kind of had that hook in your head originally, too. It is a great hook.

I mean, I thought it was. He is very humble, so I didn't think it would be helpful to tell him that. But then I started saying it about him because it is true. It's like, how does one person create hundreds of songs that are popular around the world for so many different artists, so many different styles? And of course, unlike Shakespeare, he credits all of his collaborators. We're not trying to pretend that he did this all alone, but it's still an incredible amount of work. And I love thinking about Shakespeare as not this high, flutin, you know, highbrow artist that we now think of him as when we study him in school, but someone who was also creating art for everyone. And he kind of like a rock star of his day. And we really lean into that in a hopefully funny way in the musical.

It's also fun because we see it as such a buttoned up time with the costumes. And it's fun to sort of like, put these queer elements in it and put this music in it and put this energy and this choreography and these sequins and confetti. And like, it's fun to sort of shake up that, right what people. Maybe what people used to think of Shakespeare. It's sort of a fun.

I mean, he's a fun punching bag in the show because he's fine. You know, he's very successful at this point. William Shakespeare. But his wife, Anne Hathaway, that Anne Hathaway in the show gets to be kind of the audience's way in and saying, do you want to maybe rethink that ending? What if we give Juliet a second chance at love? She's only been with this guy for three days, and so the audience gets the kind of root for Shakespeare's wife, for her to have her own opportunity to tell a story. And then Juliet, who becomes kind of the conduit through which she tells that story.

So it's just. Was it kind of easy to run with all of that? So he gave you a thumbs up to the concept. Did you, like, outline the show or is it like a rough sketch of it?

I mean, when I had my meeting with Max Martin, I came very prepared.

Did you act out all the parts?

I started to talk and he was staring at me and not laughing. And then I realized he was just taking it all in. But once I got my first laugh, I felt a lot better. I had like a 20 page document that I didn't tell in my hat. And I was like, oh, you know, what about this? Just off the top of my head, just kind of spit balling here. But then maybe the next song is this and this and this. And so I had a whole map for it. And then, of course, over all the workshops, we changed it so many times. And one of the things I love about the jukebox musical is he had already written the song so I could come in and say, we're not using that anymore. And no one's feelings are heard. There wasn't a composer who had just heard this musical. Musical. So over the course of the workshops, I can't even tell you how many songs we swapped in and out. And it was just this amazing sandbox to say, we need a song for this moment. How about this one? Nope. How about this one? And there were definitely some I tried to shoehorn in that did not make the cut in the end.

What's the best Max Martin song that's not in the show?

Well, there's an Adele song called send my love to your new lover that. First of all, I just love Adele and I wanted her to come see the show. And there are remnants of it in the show because they all refer to their lovers because I tried so hard to make it work, but it did not.

So have you still not met Adele?

I still have not met Adele. I'm so sorry. Wow.

So he doesn't. You can be friends with him, but he doesn't really hook you up on that level.

I mean, we've had a lot of very fancy people come to the show, so there's some good celebrity hookups. I mean, we flew to Vegas to see the backstreet boys together. So I'm not complaining.

When you write something that is so cool, I mean, in the audiences, I mean, you really seem like the coolest person, like, on paper. Like, you're like, super cool. Does it make you feel cool to have been the guy who did all that?

No. I mean, I'm really not cool, I think. I don't even know if pop music is cool. I feel like pop music has to be kind of earnest and fun and for everyone. I mean, it's a show for all ages, which sounds like something people say, but I'm actually taking my niece and nephew tomorrow who are five and six, and then we've also had people in their 80s in the audience. One of them, a woman, came up to Max and was like, you wrote all this music for this show. It was so incredible. Had never heard any of the pop songs before and was just blown away. Wow.

Just thought it was like a new score.

Brand new score.

Yeah.

Great score.

Best original score.

Yeah. Wow. But that's so fun. Of, like, the different generations who might have more of a connection to Britney and Backstreet or Ariana Grande or whatever it is, and then coming together and enjoying the same story. But, no, I don't feel cool.

Tell me about what you were like as a kid. Like, what were your pop culture obsessions in Canada? Growing up in Canada, were you into musical theater? You came to New York to see musicals?

I eventually did. My mom was really into musical theater. She played Laurie in her high school production of Oklahoma. And it was the high point of her life.

It's an important role.

And so there was a lot of Les Mis and Phantom playing on repeat in my house growing up. And then she took me on some Broadway trips to New York. Like, not even New York trips, just to see shows here. And I had never seen anything like that. And it wasn't really until I came to New York to study writing that I got all these free tickets and just soaked it up and went to everything. A lot of bad things and a lot of amazing things. And you went to NYU and you.

Got the free tickets.

Exactly. I took every free ticket I got at nyu. And then Julia, we also got free tickets. The main reason to go to school for writing is you get free tickets. So I was a little late to the musical theater scene.

So what kind of things were you into as a kid?

Hockey, Baseball. I mean, I grew up in Canada, but I've always been writing. I mean, I used to write short films and make my friends act them out when we had sleepovers. I wrote a lot of short stories. It's not really a choice that I made. It's just the thing that I've always done and love doing, and it's very cheesy, but to be making a living doing the thing that you just were doing, or would be doing anyway, I feel really lucky in that way.

So tell me about your Roy Orbison musical in a Nutshell. In a Nutshell, Based on the catalog of Roy Orbison.

Yeah. So it's called In Dreams, and it's based on the catalog of Roy Orbison. It's with the same director as Anne Juliet, Luke Shepard, who's amazing and we loved working together on this show and just wanted to do something really different. So this has more of come from away or once kind of vibe. It's much more stripped down, intimate musical. It has slightly more serious themes, but it also has hopefully a lot of humor. And it's doing the same thing as Ann Juliet, making it seem like Roy Orbison's songs were written for this musical. But what I loved about Roy's music and why he was top of my list of an artist whose catalog I wanted to use is it's so musical theater. It's soaring, it's operatic, it's full of so much emotion and pain and heartache. And then it can also be really fun.

Yeah. So when you do this one, then the 15 year old Ann Juliet fans are going to think it's all original score. It's going to be the opposite.

That's right.

Because they're going to be like, I don't know any of this music.

There are definitely some young people who have no idea who Roy Orbison is, but it's exciting to also introduce people to that catalog show.

So what kind of advice do you give people who look at a career like yours? I mean, it's really cool what you've been able to do and the kinds of projects you're doing and the genres you're doing. What do you tell, like young writers who want to. Are you good at giving advice to people? Are you?

Well, I'm not often asked for advice, but I think the only advice I really have is to create the things that you would want to go see, which seems obvious, but it's not the way people always write. And it's funny because now I'm doing these interviews because of award nominations or something, but it was never the goal, you know, like even on a show like Schitt's Creek, we were making that not far from where I grew up in Canada, with no one watching for a good amount of time and just trying to make something that seemed funny and enjoyable to us and then it stunned all of us what happens around the world with that show. So I think my only advice is to never be chasing what you think people want and just focus on what you would want to see yourself. Yeah.

What was the Schitt's Creek set like with that cast? Are there certain moments that you sort of are really proud of that are like your moments when you go back and watch or collaborative experience? I'm sure. Like, did you write for certain characters or was it all sort of.

I think you know, all TV is a collaborative experience. And I can't remember honestly who wrote what. And it's the same even on the show. I've created the big doy prize I couldn't point to, and I don't like to point to who wrote what because it is such a. It's different from theater in that way. I wrote a lot of and Juliet in the Dark by myself before my collaborators, then made it better visually and staging and came up with all these ideas to add on. But in tv, from the beginning, you're in a group always and it is, you know, someone makes a joke in the room and then someone makes a joke for the show. And it's like if you didn't make that joke that kind of broke the tension in the room, that joke wouldn't have happened. So it is such an amalgam of people in a beautiful way. And so I try to carry that forward that everything should be a true collaboration.

Has anyone approached Anne Hathaway about playing Anne Hathaway in the film version of Angelia?

I don't know. I don't think she's come yet. That would be fun.

Anne Hathaway. What? Yeah, I mean, you wrote. You kind of wrote a lot of great moments for her too.

I mean, it's kind of perfect casting. So we'll see. Maybe there'll be an opportunity down the road.

Actually, they could make a good movie. You're nodding. Got it. Took that note. I'm gonna say yes. I'm gonna say that's gonna happen at some point. That's all I need. That's great. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

It's a wrap.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Now here's Beth Stevens chat with costume designer Pop Paloma Young.

[Paul Wontorek]

When you first took a look at and Juliet, what was the first thing that really appealed to you about the show?

[Paloma Young]

The first thing that I noticed about the show is how funny it is. Even in early drafts, which is not always the case in shows that are even comedies, there's a lot of space holders and David Westbreed's script was just full of light and humor. And then the second thing that really stood out to me was my entryway into the show, which was through the character Van Hathaway. And that Shakespeare's wife. Yes, Shakespeare's wife. And she is, for me, the real heart of the story. And that might be because I am a middle aged woman and a mother. Although I wasn't a mother when I started working on Aunt Juliet. But I've definitely experienced some of her struggle in trying to navigate a world where a lot of men sometimes get a lot more attention in the creative world and how that character sees herself in her own story.

[Paul Wontorek]

So this show takes Shakespeare and Romeo and Juliet and just does this amazing blend with pop culture and musical icons. So tell me what you did in terms of research to mix these two elements.

[Paloma Young]

Well, because of the choreography, because of the language, and because of the music, we knew we were not going to be doing just straight period clothes. You can't move in them. They don't follow the feeling of the show, if you will. You can't stop the feeling. But we did want it to feel like anyone who has ever had any experience with a Shakespeare show would get something that they expected, but in an unexpected way. And the way that we did that is to approach the design of the show as styling. And what I mean by styling is you think of a magazine, and in a magazine, when you have a fashion spread, a model is wearing pieces from different designers, and then especially with streetwear, so not a model, but individuals who are very good at expressing their individuality are going to be mixing elements. Some of them high fashion, some of them very low fashion. Some things that they've had forever, some things that they just bought, like, fresh off the design line. And so we were doing the same thing because the show very much celebrates individuality and self expression, except the things that they've had forever is not that they've had it since the 1990s, but they've had it since the 16th century. And so with that as an entryway into the design, I did a lot of research in terms of what type of people each of these characters were, and then within that, designed their costume stock pieces. Now, I say that as like costume with a capital C. Like imagine Shakespeare is doing this rehearsal. There's a costume stock somewhere, and everyone is just pulling pieces out of that costume stock. So we've got some corsets, we've got some doublets, we've got some pumpkin hose, we've got one cod piece, we've got some ruffs.

[Paul Wontorek]

But then that's like the collar, right? Elizabethan.

[Paloma Young]

Yeah, the Elizabethan ruff. We have a whisk, which is even more of the sort of Elizabethan, an iconic Elizabethan style. But then each of those pieces gets mixed with contemporary streetwear, streetwear that feels very 90s and 2000s. Like, that touches. Touches all of the Max Martin eras. The Max Martin era is also quite large, right?

[Paul Wontorek]

Because this is all the music of Max Martin. So you have these pop icons that you're getting to work with and play with.

[Paloma Young]

Right. And so it was. It was a combination of building our capital C costume pieces from scratch and doing that within our candy color palette and then making them seem very old. We had some great breakdown artists on the show, as if they had. We've had them for years and years.

[Paul Wontorek]

So breakdown artists are people who are roughing up the costumes.

[Paloma Young]

Yeah, distressing. I use the word like distressing. Research. I sent it to an assistant in the UK at one point and she was like, oh, no.

[Paul Wontorek]

So what does that mean? Like where the elbows are worn out?

[Paloma Young]

Yeah, the elbows are worn out. It's kind of grungy and dusty. And actually some of these clothes are very difficult to break down because they're athletic wear and it's performance wear that is absolutely not. It's not meant to look good. It's meant to look brand new as long as possible. So in some ways, like Nike and Adidas were the bane of my existence because they made their clothes too good.

[Paul Wontorek]

When you talk about the feel of the show, what is that vibe for you?

[Paloma Young]

I think the feel of the show is two things, and they relate to each other. I think there's the feel of the show overall and then there's the feel of the costumes. And the feel of the show, to me is a party. Even when dramatic things are happening, there's always a follow up with something big and joyful. And so the show feels like a lot of joy. And then the costumes, I think, feel they have that joy, but it's very specifically focused in celebrating difference and individuality. And sometimes the joy of the show is like one big movement. But with the costumes, I wanted people to be able to look at each individual character, but even just each individual ensemble player and see a potential story in the depth and the layers of their costume.

[Paul Wontorek]

Can you give me an example of that?

[Paloma Young]

Oh, yeah. Let's see. There's so many examples. But in the players, when everyone is gathering to read the end of Shakespeare's play and put on the show and they're in their rehearsal costumes, and those rehearsal costumes fall in that world of sort of street style we have, mixing high and low elements. We've got some corsets, but a lot of the actors, the players have T shirts and sweatshirts and like old show swag from Shakespeare's other shows. And these people have been around. They've been around. And you know when you show up to rehearsal and you want the other people in the cast to know, hey, I was in the original cast of Antony and Cleopatra. Just, it's like a little bit of actors, like, insider actor, Easter egg. And a lot of those T shirts were originally, like, vintage T shirts from Shakespeare festivals from the 90s, like, various regional Shakespeare productions. Because what I love about this show is that all of this music has been presented to the world through icons and has built icons. And Shakespeare is an icon and so much of an icon that actually, he loses complete control. And the idea of Shakespeare gets. Everyone gets to own a piece of it. And so in the costumes, there's, like, a little foreshadowing of that in terms of all the players with their little rehearsal T shirts.

[Paul Wontorek]

I love that because as an audience member, you might feel that, but you're not necessarily going to notice every single moment.

[Paloma Young]

Yeah, I think a lot of the details are for a second and third viewing, but just emotionally, I think the vibe is immediately apparent. And whenever we shift the vibe for, it's like a concert. Like, we're gonna change the costumes now. We're gonna change colors. We're gonna go to Paris. There's gonna be a big party. Everything is now, like, sparkly and white and glittery and just the way that pop stars are. Like, I'm gonna do a music video. And this music video, the theme is pastels, and we're in Paris, and everything's floaty. And then my next music video, everything is, like, silver and, like, futuristic, which is what we do with our boy band.

[Paul Wontorek]

So let's talk about the inspiration that you found not just in the Shakespearean silhouettes, but in the pop stars. Did you do a deep dive into Britney Spears and Katy Perry, et cetera?

[Paloma Young]

The weird thing is, I don't think anyone needs to do a deep dive.

[Paul Wontorek]

Just swim in the shallows.

[Paloma Young]

Yeah. The thing is, it's already in my blood. I love pop music, and I have experienced many highs and lows in my life with this being the sound director of my life. And I love pop stars. Like, I. When we were going to design Juliet's. I live in France. I'm going to marry somebody new. I'm a whole new person. Her. Her new look for Act 2, we'd already established that the color for our. For France was blue. And so I was like, well, obviously she needs to be in the Britney Spears denim moment from the Brittany Justin red carpet denim moment, which everyone seems to know.

[Paul Wontorek]

Right. It's not like you have to explain what that is to people.

[Paloma Young]

I hope I don't. But for those who don't, a Young Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake, when they were both at the height of their fandom, appeared on the red carpet wearing a denim ball gown and a denim suit. And it was just. Everyone talks about it. It was an iconic moment, and. And even so much so that, like, Katy Perry came along many years later and did her own homage red carpet dress to that. And so I took that research and put it together with what we wanted our Juliet to be, which the dancing and the scenes that she's in this look. And it felt important that we put her in a jumpsuit, so it's not a ball gown. But you can definitely look at the research. I pulled up the pictures. Just make sure I remembered it correctly, and you can see the through line into Juliet's version of what that outfit is.

[Paul Wontorek]

Did you have certain palettes or silhouettes that you felt you had to keep with each character to follow through, even as their characters changed and transformed into something new?

[Paloma Young]

We definitely have palettes that follow through, but they shift over time. And I think that this show, each of the characters, is so immediately sympathetic and identifiable and unique that you don't need the costumes to keep track of who is who in this show. And I love that freedom, because that let me tell color stories where it was appropriate. So with Anne, she starts out in a color that is similar to Shakespeare, but it's a more muted version of it. Shakespeare's base colors are an orange, whereas Anne starts out in a peach. And then when she decides to insert herself into the narrative, it's like, what is Anne's dream version of not being married to Shakespeare and being young again and being able to, like, redirect where her life goes? And she's in this verdant green and hot pink accents. And then throughout the show, she's, like, trying on a lot of different colors. Then she goes to blue as well. When Juliet is in blue with a little bit of green, and then that green shifts into, like, an aqua so that she doesn't end up back in the peach. But she also isn't just, like a fully sort of opposite color.

[Paul Wontorek]

Right. Tell me how you approach things, like, what is your process when you're first starting out.

[Paloma Young]

When I first started out on a show, and this show especially, I just inundate myself with research. And for this show, that was a little bit of Elizabethan and Georgian and Italian Renaissance clothing in portraits, in museums, but mostly it was fashion and looking at ways that fashion designers will incorporate elements that were already borrowing from those early periods and street style and just Trying to find cool people and cool clothes. And so it's just like images, images, images.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you're looking at paintings, you're looking at Instagram, you're looking at fashion magazines. Is that where you're searching?

[Paloma Young]

Yeah. And I'm taking secret pictures of people on the subway. And I'm also, whenever I have the chance, and I did on this show, I am totally stalking the actors on Instagram now. They're all on TikTok talk. But I like to look at the actors and their individual style because especially in a show like this, the key to the looks is confidence. And I want everyone to feel, like, amazing and cool and special in their costumes when they put them on. And so I can learn a lot by just looking at how people dress themselves and express themselves. And I do also have conversations with them, but.

[Paul Wontorek]

And do you retweak that, like, from London to Broadway?

[Paloma Young]

Yeah, some. Some things have. Some of the designs from London have remained pretty consistent with small tweaks as we go to Broadway, we just opened an Australian company, and some things have big tweet tweaks. Some tweets. Some of the designs have big tweaks from the different companies, especially within the ensemble. We are so blessed to have an amazing cast. All of our casts have been really different, and that includes a lot of non binary performers. And sometimes you have a non binary performer or someone who is. Their gender expression is just on a wildly different part of the scale than the person who was previously in that costume track. And so we keep the palette the same most of the time because the palette is pretty balanced. And sometimes conceptually we're like, this costume is a corset and pants, but sometimes we don't.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you can really individualize everything.

[Paloma Young]

One of the costume tracks went from being an off stage track as a swing track, and it went to being an on stage track. It went from having little crop top corsets to having big baggy T shirts and like doublets instead of jackets. And it became sort of much more masculine and like, just very different shapes. And it also supported that performer's dancing a lot more.

[Paul Wontorek]

Well, that's something I think people don't even realize about costume design for Broadway. These people are moving. They're doing eight shows a week. These have to. No matter how much, how much you distress them, they have to be durable and tell us a little bit about that aspect of it.

[Paloma Young]

This show, because it wants to look quite broken in, has been a really fun challenge to figure out how to make things that are Hearty enough to be danced in full out eight times a week. And so there are a lot of tweaks, especially in anything that has boning corset, like traditional corseting structure. We've added a lot of stretch panels. We do a lot of. They're built more like ballet bodices. So there's a lot more stretch in them.

[Paul Wontorek]

There's a lot of secrets to these costumes.

[Paloma Young]

Oh, so many secrets. And there's lots of trick costumes, too, and they have to work like machines. But at a certain point, we also want them to look. We don't want them to look polyester. And it is a trade off that we make that we want these costumes to look like they're being maintained by a scrappy troupe of actors. And bless my wardrobe department, they get to be the scrappy actors. And to a certain extent, I know costume is off limits. I was like, if there's any sort of damage to this, I want to see the mending. The concept of our design only improves the more that these costumes get repaired.

[Paul Wontorek]

Breakdown and repaired with the idea of having secrets. Is there anything that you want to offer to new audience members coming to see Ann Juliet that they might just want to look out for or they might want to notice just a little something?

[Paloma Young]

I think there are so many Easter eggs that are put into the show, and there are little design elements. Anne Hathaway, so Shakespeare's wife, her icon is the wild country rose. And that is in direct opposite with Shakespeare's traditional classic Tudor rose conflict, which is Romeo, has the Tudor roses on his jacket. Whereas the characters that Anne really focuses on when she's creating this narrative will absorb some of those wild primroses. So Anne has a primrose tattoo, but there are other characters, like her version of Juliet and her creation of May, who is Juliet's best friend, all have these little elements of this, like creeping English cottage rose.

[Paul Wontorek]

So you can see the creator in the costumes a little bit.

[Paloma Young]

Yeah.

[Paul Wontorek]

When people, like, if they just want to come see this show, what's something that you would say about this show that you would say, come see this show because of this reason?

[Paloma Young]

I would say, come see this show. It always feels like a party. I recommend this show to so many people, people who love theater, people who don't go to theater very often. And I think that there are characters in the show that sort of appeal to every age group. But I would especially recommend the show for young people, like teenagers. I think that while the parents could be getting something out of it, the kids really see themselves in all of the characters. And the ensemble really celebrates this youthful exuberance and, frankly, like, knowingness about the world that I think young people today bring to the table.

[Paul Wontorek]

Wonderful. Thank you.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Get your tickets now to the national tour of Ann Juliet. You definitely don't want to miss it. Until next time, I'm Tamsen Fadal, and this is the Broadway show Uncut.