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- [00:04]
Tamsen Fadal
After all these years, Wicked is still as popular as ever on Broadway, on tour and in the cinema. And now Wicked for good is a box office hit at the movies. But back on Broadway, Ally Trim helps lead the long running musical. She's Glinda. And we had a chance to chat coming up in just a few. But first, Paul Wontorek is here with the story of the incredible actress who plays Nessa Rose on Broadway.
- [00:32]
Paul Wontorek
Thank you for having us in your home, Jenna.
- [00:34]
Jenna
Yeah, this is great.
- [00:35]
Paul Wontorek
Your beautiful home away from Wicked, home away from Oz.
- [00:37]
Jenna
Yes. Get a little bit out of the city, have a little more space.
- [00:41]
Paul Wontorek
We're in Westchester. You live here with your husband Paul. So it's a beautiful place. How did you make this place a home, A comfortable home? What do you need to have a comfortable home?
- [00:49]
Jenna
Oh, gosh. I need to have a place that at the end of the night, because my husband goes to bed usually before I get home from the show.
- [00:56]
Paul Wontorek
Okay.
- [00:57]
Jenna
So I need a place that I can completely decompress and zen. So comfortable couch is the first thing I need. And then I really love art. Art makes me feel comfortable. It makes me feel like a place is actually lived in. And we have a lot of art from our travels. And also we have a tradition where my husband always gets us a piece of artwork for Valentine's Day. So the house is just filled to the brim with all kinds of art.
- [01:24]
Paul Wontorek
I love that.
- [01:24]
Jenna
It makes me feel calm.
- [01:26]
Paul Wontorek
Oh, that's really lovely. People don't realize a lot of times coming off a Broadway stage or I guess acting in general, the amount of energy you're putting out, it takes a long time to actually wind out after a show.
- [01:39]
Jenna
Oh, my gosh.
- [01:39]
Paul Wontorek
So that couch is really necessary? Yes, especially Wicked. Wicked is like the most sensory overload place you could ever be.
- [01:46]
Jenna
It's a three hour marathon and we've got all of the spectacle you could possibly want on Broadway, which also means that we are taking in all of that stimulation every single night. So it's. I really love my drive home, partly because it gives me a chance to kind of zen out, calm down a little bit. And then when I come home, I always have a brownie as I sit on this couch and just like, no sound. I don't, like, watch tv. I'm not listening to a podcast. I just sit here in silence and like, calm down.
- [02:13]
Paul Wontorek
I love that for you. You deserve that. So you are Nelson Rose. Yes, of course. Elphaba's sister. We all love that sisterhood. And you are the first Ambulatory wheelchair user to ever play Nessa Rose. And obviously Nessa Rose uses a wheelchair. So this is something that had to happen. This is a beautiful moment right now. How are you feeling being a few months into the run, having this new Broadway career? Cause you also finished a run in Suffs on Broadway. How's life? How are you feeling right now being at this point?
- [02:46]
Jenna
It's incredible. I never imagined for myself that I would be on Broadway. It was never. I was really happy working in regional theater. I love regional theater. I think that regional theater is the lifeblood of art in America. I think it's so important. And I loved doing it. And I just always. When an opportunity presented itself, I always followed it. So that led me to theaters all across the country. And when the opportunity then came to audition for Suffs in New York, I had to take it. So I was always excited about what would come next. But I'd never planned it out for myself. So I am as shocked as anybody to have now had two shows on Broadway. It feels so natural, which is such an interesting thing. It's so exciting every night, but it also feels, it feels so comfortable. It feels like home. It feels like such a good place to be every night. And so much of that is the companies I've gotten to work work with just the best people on Broadway in both of those buildings. And it's been really incredible how much I've felt included in the companies. And these shows are so important and getting to tell these stories to audience members every night is just a gift I could have never imagined for myself. But I'm so grateful.
- [04:12]
Paul Wontorek
In the last five years, there has been a lot of effort put into better inclusion on Broadway in many different ways. It seems like a no brainer that an actress like you would get to play Nessa Rose. Was it something that you had thought of or did you not even, you know, sometimes when the opportunity isn't already there, did you even dream that the opportunity was possible?
- [04:35]
Jenna
Once I got to New York, I very quickly set my sights on.
- [04:39]
Paul Wontorek
You were like, Nessa Rose, I want.
- [04:40]
Jenna
To be in Wicked.
- [04:41]
Ally Trim
Yeah.
- [04:42]
Jenna
Because it did. It felt like such a. Such a natural next step.
- [04:44]
Paul Wontorek
Step of.
- [04:46]
Jenna
I understand some of the hesitation because our rhetoric as a society about what it means to be disabled or what it means to use a wheelchair is pretty limited. So if you don't have someone teaching you and telling you, here's how we can become more accessible and more inclusive, you don't even know to ask. You don't even know what possibilities are out there. So it didn't surprise me that it hadn't happened yet. It frustrated me, of course, because, you know, I want to see disabled stories told by disabled performers and disabled writers and disabled directors. But I think that what was exciting about joining Wicked was also, we can have those conversations now. We can. There are a lot of things about backstage at the Gershwin that aren't accessible, but there are a lot of things that are. And when we could have that open dialogue of what does accommodation actually look like? There's much more room for that gray area. I think that people assume that access is a binary, that you're either completely accessible or completely not. But the ADA is really just a guide, and it, in a lot of ways, is the bare minimum for ensuring access for everybody. But each individual is going to have different access needs. And that's true whether you have a disability or not. Access is a universal need, and we all have things that we need to do our jobs well. So being able to have that conversation of, yes, I'm a wheelchair user and yes, I can do stairs, and stairs aren't really a huge problem for me. My issue is stamina. So how can we make sure that we can perform this show in a way that is sustainable for my body and also have all the backstage work that's sustainable for my body, given the framework we have? Because it is also Broadway's a machine you kind of get plugged into in Wicked, it's literally a clock. We have a clock making up the entire set. And you are clockwork within that machine. So how do you make sure that someone who has different access needs can fit into that clock? And we were able to have a conversation that was open and frank and honest about what accessibility looked like for me, whoever comes to WICKED next, in any part, it doesn't matter what part it is, the next performer who comes to WICKED with access needs is going to need different things. But I think we've now started that conversation so that people are more able to talk openly. I think there's a fear sometimes about talking about accessibility, but when you can have an open dialogue, you're able to actually meet someone where they are.
- [07:25]
Paul Wontorek
Yes. You mentioned the ada. That's the Americans with Disability act. And it basically opens up an interactive dialogue. It's called where employers. So when you came into Wicked, you basically told them what you need.
- [07:36]
Jenna
Yeah.
- [07:37]
Paul Wontorek
And so what were some of the things that were maybe accommodated? I know your dressing room. I believe your dressing room changed for Nessa Rose.
- [07:45]
Jenna
Yes. So during my very first Audition. I said, you know, hi, my name is Jenna. I am a wheelchair user. I'm able to walk. I walked during my audition. And I said, if you have any questions about this, about what my access needs might be, I'm very excited to have that conversation. And so there was a little bit of back and forth. Just they presented me with, here is the show as it currently runs. So here's all of the things that Nessa does during the show. As far as there's two steps up to the stage itself. There's a staircase at the very beginning of the show that I climb. Here's how steep it is. You know, they gave me all that information and said, what in here is doable for you and what is not?
- [08:31]
Paul Wontorek
Right?
- [08:32]
Jenna
And then I came back to them and said, you know, for sustainability, because there's so many steps required on stage, I would need for my dressing room to be moved. The dressing room for previous Nessa's had been upstairs. So it would mean that every single costume change, walking up to two flights of stairs, that's a lot for my body. But by moving me down to the ground floor, it meant I only had to go up. It's like five steps at the theater. And that was something I can do sustainably. So it was a really easy conversation once we were able to have it. But it also was complicated because it meant that, you know, for 20 years, this has been one person's dressing room. And all of the dressers are used to going to that room and all.
- [09:16]
Paul Wontorek
Of the sounds of the sound. There's backstage choreography.
- [09:20]
Jenna
Yes. And the backstage choreography is perhaps even more intricate than the onstage choreography because there's less room. So it was a conversation of, how do we make this flow? And I think we found a really nice balance.
- [09:32]
Paul Wontorek
So you're feeling really good in the day to day flow now of doing the show.
- [09:36]
Jenna
Yeah.
- [09:36]
Paul Wontorek
And what's required of you and the role.
- [09:39]
Jenna
Yeah. And then the other interesting thing was what happens on stage, because once we were able to figure out, can we even make this work backstage, there was a question of, all right now, what's the blocking on stage?
- [09:50]
Ally Trim
And.
- [09:50]
Jenna
And there was only one moment that I really felt like, needed to be shifted, and that was the curtain call. Because the curtain calls are so fast, like any curtain call on Broadway. You're watching people, like, run to their spot, bow quickly and run away. And I don't run.
- [10:08]
Paul Wontorek
Correct.
- [10:08]
Jenna
Just like point blank. I do not run. That is not something my legs do. So I was like, hey, would it be possible for Me to do the curtain call in my personal wheelchair. And immediately everybody on the team was like, absolutely, yes, we can make that happen. So it started off as an access need, but I also find it really beautiful for the storytelling because I think it also tells the audience, I am a member of this community.
- [10:35]
Paul Wontorek
I myself. Yes, that's your opportunity to be yourself. The curtain call.
- [10:38]
Jenna
Exactly. Because that's when we take off our masks. We literally have people in Wicked who wear masks that during the show, and they come off and curtain call holding their mask. And for me, it was a moment of showing my disability in plain sight and saying, I am a member of this community.
- [10:54]
Paul Wontorek
And you can move quick in your wheelchair.
- [10:55]
Jenna
Oh, yeah. I'm speedy in my wheelchair.
- [10:58]
Paul Wontorek
So. Yeah, but that's another thing. So Nessarose has wheelchairs, but they're actually sort of like prop fake sort of wheelchairs.
- [11:05]
Jenna
Yes.
- [11:05]
Paul Wontorek
You can't take those wheelchairs into Times Square.
- [11:07]
Jenna
Oh, my God, no. I think I would cry if I had to use that wheelchair outside of the theater. Because the theater is like, you've got these. Not flat at the Gershwin. We've got the raked stage, but it's an even surface. You're not dealing with, like, potholes, and you're not having to, like, turn quickly to avoid hitting a random pedestrian that, you know, steps out of a store. It's a little more even, and everyone knows where you're going. But they're heavy. They are heavy, and they're not built like modern wheelchairs. My wheelchair weighs less than £20. It is small. It is zippy. The wheelchairs for Nessa are quite cumbersome, and they've been quite the challenge to get used to.
- [11:49]
Paul Wontorek
So what's it like just being in the show, in this magical show? I mean, everybody loves Wicked. I love Wicked. It's just, you know, and the movie has obviously brought a whole nother level of. And we should talk about Nessarose in the film. That's a big part of sort of your. So talk about her. Have you met her?
- [12:08]
Jenna
Yes. I was lucky enough to meet Marissa Boddy a few months ago at a film festival. She's so kind.
- [12:17]
Paul Wontorek
She also uses a wheelchair.
- [12:19]
Jenna
Yes. Also a wheelchair user. And it was a fun little bonding moment. We only got to meet for about five minutes, but it was such a wonderful moment of connecting. We are the only two wheelchair users to ever play this part. So to get to connect in that way was really special.
- [12:32]
Paul Wontorek
So how are things backstage? How is it with the company and just telling this story every night and the audiences go wild.
- [12:38]
Jenna
Yes. I am obsessed with our company. Like, completely obsessed. The cast that I was able to rehearse with and come into the show with, we've all become very tight. But it's also like the crew in the Gershwin is just the most wonderful people you'll ever meet. So it really does feel like a family. It's a very happy, positive backstage experience.
- [13:04]
Paul Wontorek
You know, job stability makes people very comfortable and friendly in that show.
- [13:08]
Jenna
And I was worried that, like, maybe it would feel jaded or like, oh, we've been here forever type of stuff. Exactly. Yeah. But people are still really excited to be there and really excited to be telling the story. And a lot of that, too, is the audiences. The fact that we have so many first time Broadway participants there, like, that's exciting. Getting to be someone's first Broadway show. That's something they'll remember forever.
- [13:36]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. So I want to ask you, you were incredible in soft.
- [13:40]
Jenna
Thank you.
- [13:40]
Paul Wontorek
That was a great company, and it was very powerful to see you on that stage with that group of people. What was the experience like for you that was at the Music Box, an older theater than the Gershwin?
- [13:54]
Jenna
Older theater.
- [13:55]
Paul Wontorek
Gershwin has big elevators and stuff. So talk a little bit about that experience.
- [14:00]
Jenna
The Music Box is a hundred years old, over 100 years old. So it's this very, very old building. And it also was not built to hold musicals. It was built to be a concert hall.
- [14:12]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah, that was a big show for the Music Box.
- [14:14]
Jenna
Yeah. So it was really interesting coming into the space and being like, oh, my high school theater is bigger than this Broadway theater. Our wing space, stage right at the Music Box was only like 3ft wide, total. There was one exit, stage right. That was my wheelchair. From rim to Rim is 24 inches. This exit was 25 inches. So there was one time where I had to go off that exit during the show. Just one. But we did have to, like, move it when we first moved in for Tech, because it was, like, at 24 inches, and we had to get that extra inch to make sure I could keep my hands on the rims. And I would wheel off stage and then, like, lift my hands up so I wouldn't hit anything and then turn sharply at the edge of the corner. And we had a little. A little sticky note on the station that was just days without incident. And we would tally off if there was a crash. So if I, like, ran into a wall or if I made the turn wrong and, you know, had to come to a stop, we would tally those. But it was this really, really tiny space, but we made it so accessible. It was great. We were able to put in a ramp to the stage door. Then there was already a ramp from the stage door up to deck level, so that was already there. And then there was a room that had been used as kind of like a wig space dressing area that they were able to fully build out to be a dressing room. So the whole thing was really accessible. Which is cool that you can take a building 100 years old that completely predates even a glimmer of the Americans with Disabilities act or section 504 or any of the legislation we have and make it a completely accessible experience. I think it proves that you can do it in any building without question.
- [15:59]
Paul Wontorek
It's kind of wild to think that, you know, when I got to see you on stage and saw you had all the space in the world, but then you were, like, going off stage and then navigating.
- [16:07]
Jenna
Yeah. These teeny, tiny.
- [16:08]
Ally Trim
Yeah.
- [16:08]
Paul Wontorek
It's kind of funny, the difference in that.
- [16:10]
Jenna
Yeah. It was also cool because, like, once we made that building accessible, what we found was that it benefited everybody. The fact that there was now a bathroom on deck level was hugely.
- [16:22]
Paul Wontorek
Everyone would love a bathroom on deck level.
- [16:24]
Jenna
Yeah. And having a dressing room there. When we moved out, Dorian Gray moved in, and I was told that they wanted that dressing room, so they kept that dressing room in place so they could use it. So we did, sadly, have to remove the ramp when we left. But it proves that the ramp can be added again.
- [16:41]
Paul Wontorek
Absolutely. So tell me a little bit about your childhood and when you first sustained your disability.
- [16:46]
Jenna
Yeah. So when I was 16 months old, I was running around my living room. I was a very active kid, and I just tripped and fell, something that toddlers do a million times a day. And when I fell, I hit my head on a coffee table and then ricocheted and hit my legs on the couch and. And the compression of the dual movement. I was completely paralyzed from that moment.
- [17:14]
Paul Wontorek
Wow.
- [17:15]
Jenna
So when it first happened, I was quadriplegic, so completely paralyzed from the chest down. I could move my shoulders, and I could move my thumbs, and my parents took me to the emergency room and essentially were told, she's fine. She's just scared. Like, kids fall down all the time. Kids don't break their spines. That's not a thing that happens. So don't worry about it. She's probably just scared. She'll be fine tomorrow. And my parents, luckily, did not take that for an answer and took me to another emergency room. But it was quite a slow recovery process after that. As the swelling went down from the injury, I regained some mobility, so I became paraplegic and then, over time, regained more feeling and movement. But they've never been able to figure out what happened. They don't know if it was some kind of autoimmune something that caused me to fall, and it actually was that my disability caused the fall or if the fall caused my disability. I've never been able to figure out exactly what happened.
- [18:17]
Paul Wontorek
People get so frustrated when you can't tell them exact answers. Right? And you're like, I just want to figure out how to live my life. But people actually want to know.
- [18:24]
Jenna
They want to know what's. What's wrong. Nothing's wrong. It's also interesting because, like, even my doctors very much are like, well, we need to get you a diagnosis, and at this point, I don't care.
- [18:37]
Paul Wontorek
Correct.
- [18:38]
Jenna
I've been living my life, my entire lived memory. I've had my disability, and so I don't find it to be a negative part of me. I love my disability. My disability has led me to every beautiful thing in my life. So I don't need to know why I have a disability. I just need to know that it exists and I accommodate for it. The thing that I don't like about my disability is the way that other people treat me for it, the way that people assume things about me and assume things about every disabled person. But disability is a natural and beautiful part of life, and it will happen to everybody. Everybody will experience disability, whether it's temporarily, you know, maybe you sprain your ankle. Hey, guess what? Having your home be accessible to you and your work be accessible to you while you recover from that is gonna be important. It might happen to your loved ones. It might happen to your parents, to your spouse, to your children, and it might also happen to you. Disability is not something we should be scared of. It's something we should plan for because it is inevitable. And it is a human rite of passage to experience disability. So I don't think it's negative. I don't need to know why I have a disability. What I need to do is make sure that the world becomes more accessible because of my disability.
- [19:59]
Paul Wontorek
Beautifully said. Really, really powerful. So tell me about your childhood and discovering theater, because you actually, before you came to New York, you did a lot of theater. I did in Colorado, a lot of it in a wheelchair, and a lot of it with theater companies that embraced you. So talk a little bit about that, because I'm sure it really led you to the woman you are today.
- [20:22]
Jenna
Oh, 100%. I was a very active kid. I love sports. I still love sports. Like, if you are here on a Sunday, I am watching football the moment I get home from the show. We're a big sports family, and I grew up playing a lot of sports. I played baseball and volleyball. I have a black belt and karate. I went skiing every weekend. I did horseback riding. Like, I was an active kid. And as sports became more competitive, teams were less and less willing to have a disabled girl play with them and said some pretty cruel things. And so my parents had always been big cedar people. My their first date was actually seeing the Rocky Horror show when they were doing their study abroad in London. So theater is, like, very much a part of our family. So my mom was kind of looking around and was like, this doesn't feel sports don't feel like the right environment. What if you did choir? And so I started auditioning for children's choirs in my area, and then that led to auditioning for theaters in my area. And eventually we found Family Theatre Company, which is in Denver, Colorado. They hire entirely actors with disabilities. And that was where I got all of my training, because I was able to see adults with disabilities living their lives, and that was something I hadn't seen before. You don't see that in tv. You don't see that in movies. So getting to meet other people with disabilities and see, oh, how do you accommodate for yourself? Or how do you ask for accommodations? How do you learn choreography if you can't do the steps, the physical steps? How do I accommodate it to just be for my upper body? I learned all of those tools at Family and then started auditioning for more productions in the area. I started doing dinner theater and regional theater and eventually decided I wanted to get a degree in theater. Ended up at an opera program because that's where I got in. So I ended up just kind of following whatever opportunities presented themselves, and one thing led to another, and suddenly I was out in Oregon working for the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And then the pandemic shut everything down and everything became remote.
- [22:45]
Paul Wontorek
Before you get to the Pandemic, yes, you played some great roles because I was, you know, trolling your Instagram and looking at all your clips. Yeah, there's a lot of great stuff. So I know you were in Sideshow, one of my favorite. You were also like Grace and Annie. Tell me about some of the other things you got to do.
- [23:00]
Jenna
Oh, what are some of my favorites? I played a lot of princesses.
- [23:03]
Paul Wontorek
Okay. So I was Belle and Beauty and the Beast.
- [23:05]
Jenna
I was Belle and Beauty and the Beast. I was Cinderella.
- [23:07]
Paul Wontorek
You're kind of wearing Belle yellow today.
- [23:09]
Jenna
Yeah.
- [23:09]
Paul Wontorek
You're giving Belle. Belle vibes.
- [23:11]
Jenna
She lives in me. We are forever intertwined. Yeah. I played Belle. I played Cinderella in both the Rodgers and Hammerstein into the Woods.
- [23:20]
Paul Wontorek
Okay. Both. Okay. Nice. Okay.
- [23:21]
Jenna
Yeah. So I'm a big fan of the princesses. I also did. I did a lot of Shakespeare, so I worked at Colorado Shakespeare Festival. I played. I was Hermia in Midsummer Night's Dream. I was in Henry 4 and Henry 5.
- [23:35]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah, there's a lot of Shakespeare on your bookshelf.
- [23:37]
Jenna
A lot of Shakespeare.
- [23:38]
Paul Wontorek
I know. Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:38]
Jenna
That's my two great loves. I tend to bounce back and forth between Shakespeare and musicals.
- [23:43]
Paul Wontorek
Now, some of these roles, you did not do in a wheelchair.
- [23:46]
Jenna
Correct?
- [23:46]
Paul Wontorek
Correct.
- [23:46]
Jenna
Yes.
- [23:47]
Paul Wontorek
So talk about that a little bit. You're able to do roles to an extent. Talk about that. I'm sure people have questions about that.
- [23:55]
Jenna
Yeah. So my disability, I walk with a rather pronounced limp, and I tire out quickly. So walking. If I have to walk more than about one city block, I am spent. Shows, though, are inconsistent movement. You're doing dancing, and then you sit for a while, and then you might park and bark and sing your song, and then you might go offstage and have 10 minutes of just chilling out. So theater has always been a pretty sustainable model for my type of movement because it's always diversified. It's not just, you're gonna walk for this whole scene. The only time I ever had to do that was in suffs, which is March and March and March and March. That's not usually how shows are built, so. So I would generally build shows without my wheelchair. The other thing that's important is that I didn't really use my wheelchair full time until I moved to New York because it wasn't really necessary for my movement when I lived in other places, everywhere I'd lived before moving to New York, I could drive somewhere, park right outside the door, and walk the 10 steps into the door. That was sustainable for me. New York does not allow for that.
- [25:09]
Paul Wontorek
Right.
- [25:10]
Jenna
Every. Doesn't matter how close your subway station is, you're still gonna be, like, a couple of blocks, and that's too far for me. The reality of being able to park right outside a building and walk in doesn't exist. So I started using my wheelchair more when we were living in Oregon because it was easier for me to walk my dogs when I used my Wheelchair. I've always had a wheelchair, but in my mind it was conflated with, like, getting worse. Like, my doctors had always made it seem like if you choose to use your wheelchair, it's because you are unable to walk. So I wouldn't use my wheelchair unless I knew I was unable to do the task. So it was reserved for like, I'm gonna go to the zoo or I'm gonna go to Disneyland. Places where I physically couldn't do it walking. And then I realized, who cares when I use my wheelchair? My wheelchair makes my life easier. And I can use it for the five minute walk or I can use it for the three hour event. And it doesn't matter if it makes my life better, I should be using it. But it took me a long time to unlearn that. I thought that it was something like a last resort tool, but it's not. It's a way to actually make walking easier. So I able to walk longer distances now because I use my wheelchair in between. So it's been an interesting balance of learning that. So there are. I'm sure I'll do plenty of shows in the future where I walk the entire show and then we'll get in my wheelchair to commute home. Now I use my wheelchair. I view my wheelchair as an additional method for storytelling. And I think it's a really beautiful thing to use it for certain characters and not use it for others. And at the end of the day, it's always gonna make my life easier to use it.
- [27:00]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [27:00]
Jenna
So when I can, I'll always use my wheelchair.
- [27:04]
Paul Wontorek
One thing I love, you do great content online. And. Well, you do. You do a whole fashion series. What's it called? Or what's it called?
- [27:13]
Jenna
Does it sit?
- [27:13]
Paul Wontorek
Does it sit? Does it sit where you're basically looking at, like the Emmy fashion or Tony fashion? And considering, you know, whether or not you could wear that fashion in a wheelchair, which is fascinating because people don't think that way. Right? You do.
- [27:27]
Jenna
I do.
- [27:27]
Paul Wontorek
You're always thinking that way. So you're sharing it with the world. I love that because it's very revealing about sort of like the.
- [27:33]
Jenna
Well, and everybody sits. So, like, why don't we have. Every single time you're shopping online, there should be at least one photo of the model seated. Because right now you are seated.
- [27:43]
Paul Wontorek
Right.
- [27:43]
Jenna
Don't you want to make sure this outfit looks good? Good. When I'm being filmed sitting down. And every time I watch any of these reunion shows and they're always seated on the couches. There's always, like, three people who you can tell are wildly uncomfortable or the outfit has become, like, incredibly unflattering because they sat down.
- [28:01]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah, right.
- [28:02]
Jenna
You're like, oh, that's the first time you sat in that dress.
- [28:05]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. There was one for the Emmys where you were like, okay, if she was sitting in a wheelchair, everything would just be exposed. Everything would be exposed and just be out there.
- [28:12]
Jenna
So, yeah, Lisa from White Lotus, she had this beautiful structural gown. And I was like, as soon as she sits down, that thing is gonna tilt up. I really hope she's wearing shorts.
- [28:22]
Paul Wontorek
I really hope the other series you do, which you've done many of. What do you call it? Roles.
- [28:27]
Jenna
Roles that are better disabled.
- [28:29]
Paul Wontorek
Roles that are better disabled. Which has been very eye opening for me. I actually told you before we rolled. I do. I think of roles now, and I think about, oh, that'd be really interesting, you know, if I saw a disabled person play that role. Yeah, it's a really great. I'm sure you have a lot of passion behind that. I mean, you're really. I find it very eye opening. Have you had people react to and tell you that and it's really.
- [28:51]
Jenna
Oh, absolutely.
- [28:51]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [28:52]
Jenna
Yeah. The feedback on roles that are better disabled has been so incredible because, you know, I'll give an example of one. I recently did Cinderella, and I've done two different episodes of Cinderella. I've done one where I talked about Cinderella should be a wheelchair user. Because it's, of course, in my mind that she sings. In my own little corner, in my own little chair, I can be whatever I want to be. I love the idea of it being her wheelchair.
- [29:17]
Paul Wontorek
I think that's beautiful storytelling.
- [29:20]
Jenna
Correct. I did a follow up where I said the prince should be played by a blind actor.
- [29:23]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Jenna
Because I think it helps to tell the story and make it a little bit more clear for the storytelling of why he's looking for her through physical methods of putting a shoe on random people.
- [29:37]
Paul Wontorek
Why doesn't he recognize her?
- [29:38]
Jenna
Why doesn't he recognize her? Like, you know, maybe he has facial blindness. Maybe he's got partial vision. Maybe he has no vision. Like, I think it really informs the storytelling and it gives an opportunity for more disabled actors to get to perform. Because I think that we don't always think about how to include disabled actors in our storytelling. But, you know, Disabled people are 20% of the population, so every single story on stage should really have 20% of the people on stage being disabled.
- [30:06]
Paul Wontorek
Well, I'm glad you brought up that Statistic. Because I want to talk about the business you started with your husband, Paul.
- [30:13]
Jenna
Yeah.
- [30:13]
Paul Wontorek
And how long have you been married?
- [30:15]
Jenna
10 years.
- [30:15]
Paul Wontorek
And how did you meet?
- [30:16]
Jenna
He was my stage manager.
- [30:18]
Paul Wontorek
We love that romance.
- [30:21]
Jenna
Exactly.
- [30:21]
Paul Wontorek
And that was for Sideshow.
- [30:23]
Jenna
We met doing Sideshow.
- [30:26]
Paul Wontorek
How did the romance. Tell me. Give me a little. Give me a little Valentine's Day story before you get the next piece of art.
- [30:32]
Jenna
So we met. He was my stage manager. It was all very just, you know, we were working together. Didn't really talk much beyond just the text that was like, hey, I'm running late. And then a few years later, we were doing how to succeed in business without really trying.
- [30:48]
Paul Wontorek
Okay.
- [30:49]
Jenna
And I had had this secret crush on him for years and never told anybody. And finally I told one of the girls in the cast. I was like, I just think. I think Paul's looks so super cute. And she immediately texted him and was like, jenna's got a crush on you. You should act. And I felt like we were, like, 14. I was like, what is happening? Are we in middle school? It was amazing.
- [31:11]
Paul Wontorek
It worked.
- [31:12]
Jenna
Yeah. So he asked me out, like, the next day, and we went and saw five course love, Very silly little show at the Garner Galleria Theater in Denver, and the rest is history. We've been together ever since. Got married a few years later. Love it. We ended up getting engaged and then married in the same theater that we met in, which is the space theater.
- [31:34]
Paul Wontorek
And then when did you establish an LLC together?
- [31:37]
Jenna
Well, we are now a 501C3, which is very exciting.
- [31:41]
Paul Wontorek
Okay, fabulous.
- [31:42]
Jenna
We started consultability. It was. When did we move to New York? It was 2022 that we started consultability.
- [31:52]
Paul Wontorek
Was this a Covid project? Was it sort of something, you know, a lot of time talking together. Right. Closed off from the world. Like, how did it. Where did it come from?
- [32:01]
Jenna
It was something we'd already been doing. Especially, you know, as. As an actor with a disability, I was always having to advocate for myself. Anytime I would go into a new theater, I would be doing a lot of unpaid labor telling people how to make their spaces more accessible. Not just for me, but my goal was always to make it more accessible for every single person who came after me.
- [32:23]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [32:24]
Jenna
So I was doing that work for free for many, many years. And so was my husband. He was my stage manager at Family Theater Company. So he'd been working with countless disabled artists with all different disabilities. And Family is a nomadic theater company, so they're always going to different houses.
- [32:42]
Paul Wontorek
Wow.
- [32:42]
Jenna
Okay. His job.
- [32:44]
Paul Wontorek
Theater.
- [32:44]
Jenna
Exactly. And his job was to make sure that each space became accessible for every single artist who entered it. So he was doing this work from behind the scenes, and I was doing it on stage. And so it meant that together, we just had this wealth of knowledge of how to make any situation accessible. And sometimes it's really expensive fixes, and sometimes it's quick fixes. And we kind of knew all of that just from our own lived experience. So we decided when we moved to New York, we wanted to. There was a couple of things that were happening. We wanted to make sure that we were able to use our knowledge in a really concrete way that people could reach out to us and ask for assistance in a way that wasn't just like, you know, a DM on Instagram, which is how we were usually helping people out. We wanted more people to know that they could ask for this type of assistance because we had people constantly reaching out to us and saying, like, I don't even know who to ask. So we decided it would be worth it to make this company. And then it was also because I was bouncing around so much to these different theaters. We had lived in four states or three states in three years, and we wanted something that we could do no matter where we were. Because the thing we learned in the pandemic is that we really like being together.
- [34:06]
Paul Wontorek
And in theater, some people found out the opposite.
- [34:08]
Jenna
Exactly. Exactly. So we were lucky that we were like, oh, I really like stuff. Spending time with you. And we'd never been able to really do that before. We had always been hustling with these theater gigs, and suddenly we were trapped in a house together, and we're like, this is great. So we wanted to create a business that would allow us to always be together. So even if I was, you know, flying to wherever, to Boston for six weeks to do a show, that he could come with me, and we could also have this business. And so that was. That was kind of the goal.
- [34:39]
Paul Wontorek
So theaters approach. You tell me exactly how this works, because you can. You. The two of you can go into a theater and make it. I'm assuming you're giving tips for making it accessible for audiences and for people backstage.
- [34:52]
Jenna
Yes.
- [34:53]
Paul Wontorek
Obviously, you know, I have a hearing disability, so captioning is very important to me. And so. And there's all sorts of disabilities, right?
- [35:00]
Jenna
Yes.
- [35:00]
Paul Wontorek
So there's a lot of things you have to take into account.
- [35:02]
Jenna
Exactly.
- [35:03]
Paul Wontorek
So tell me about the actual work.
- [35:04]
Ally Trim
Yeah.
- [35:05]
Jenna
So we have a few different approaches. Theaters can come to us, and we have. Our website is consultability.org on social media, people can reach out to us and ask us to come to their spaces. We also do direct outreach. So if we have somebody tell us, hey, I went to this theater and it wasn't accessible, that tells us we should reach out to them. Or sometimes we just do cold calls of places that we've heard about and we think would be interested in doing the work. So once we come to a theater, we have a few different things that we'll do. We always do on site analysis. So we'll walk through all of the spaces, rehearsal rooms, bathrooms, dressing rooms, on stage, backstage, audience spaces, lobbies, and make sure that they have an idea of here are all the things you're doing well and we want you to continue doing. Because sometimes people don't even know that something is accessible.
- [35:59]
Paul Wontorek
Let me also be clear. The ADA requires. Requires businesses to do a certain amount of things. Yes, but it's nowhere near what actually would be needed to perform what you're hoping to perform in these spaces.
- [36:11]
Jenna
And the ADA has a lot of loopholes in it. If your building predates the ada, which most theaters do, you might not be required to have the same level accessibility. And you're certainly not required to have it backstage. Backstage spaces are private spaces and so they are exempt from, from many ADA requirements. So your audience spaces might be accessible, but as we said, the ADA is like the very ground level of accessibility. So we really want to make it more accessible. And sometimes a space might have these ADA requirements. Like, for example, the bathrooms will have large enough stalls and they'll have the soap at the right height for people to reach it. But then maybe the hinges break one day and it gets put up, and it gets put up backwards. People don't know which direction that door should swing to keep it accessible. People don't know that the mirrors have been placed too high. That wasn't something that was part of the original plan. So we can tell them you should bring your mirrors down. They might have moved the paper towel dispenser at some point and now it's too high for people to reach. There's all these little things that we can tell you. Here's what you're doing well, please continue. One of the most common ones I see is you'll go into the wheelchair accessible bathroom and everything will be perfect. But there is a step trash can. The only way to open that trash can is to step on a pedal.
- [37:39]
Paul Wontorek
Wow.
- [37:40]
Ally Trim
Right?
- [37:40]
Jenna
And it's something people don't even think about. Right? They just bought 30 trash cans for their building, and they put one in every room. No one thought about the fact that you physically cannot open that trash can unless you step on it, right? So that's a problem. And so we can tell them, hey, here's the trash cans you should be buying for your whole building. Stuck trash cans shouldn't be in public spaces. They just shouldn't be. Have them be motion sensored, have them be swing top. These are much more accessible options. We go in and show them that. We also show them how to make backstage spaces accessible. Because there isn't a framework for that. There's not anything that says, here's how you should make your cables to make them wheelchair accessible, right? There might be rules about you should tape down your cables, but sometimes you want to have a cable ramp, sometimes you want to have a rug, sometimes you want to have a rug and tape. There's different ways you can make it more accessible for more people. So we go through and analyze all of that and then we give them an action plan that says, here's what you can do in the short term for cheap. You know, replace the trash can or just take the lid off the trash can. You don't even have to replace it, just remove the lid. That's free. Maybe you just need to swing the hinges so that they go the other direction. That's something that literally any carpenter in your building can do. So there's small things you can do. And then when you are planning for renovations, prioritize these things and tell the architects. We really want to have an elevator that goes to the dressing room. We really want to have non fluorescent lighting in every single room. We really want to have the H vac system checked so that it's quiet enough that it's not going to overstimulate people. Right? These are things you're not really thinking about until someone tells you this is inaccessible. So we start with that. And then we also do trainings to show people the real life application of accessibility. Because it's one thing to see just numbers on a page of like, here's my check mark. It's something different to think about how it's affecting people. So we do trainings and teach people in workshops. You know, here's a little bit about the disabled community and here's how they're interacting with their spaces, and here's how much money they're putting into your building. So this is also a financial incentive if you make your spaces accessible. That's 20% of the population who's now going to be more likely to come to your space.
- [40:00]
Paul Wontorek
That's very powerful, and you're doing great work. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. It's wonderful, wonderful stuff. Have you been encouraged by the reaction of the theater community and sort of, what's it been like becoming a presence in this world and sort of, you know, you're here, right? Like, you're on Broadway. You're a Broadway star now. What's it been like actually being out into the world and watching sort of the Broadway community react to you?
- [40:28]
Jenna
It's been incredible. I mean, every single night, there are people at the show who have disabilities who tell me how important it is for them to feel represented on that stage and that maybe they haven't ever felt that before. They've never seen themselves in these stories. I meet them at the stage door. I have DMs every day from people telling me their own stories. And, you know, just. I can't even put into words how much it means. And it's also the representation that, you know, I didn't have as a kid. I didn't think I would go into this profession because I'd never seen anybody like me do it. I'd never seen anybody be successful in this industry. And that's starting to change. Kids are coming to Wicked and feeling seen in the movie on stage, and it's showing them that there's a place for them not just in the arts, not just in theater, but also all of the roles that disabled actors are playing. Right. So if you want to be a teacher, you know, have an example of a disabled actor having played a teacher on stage, and you go, great. I can be a teacher, or I can be a politician, or I can be an actor, or I can be an astronaut. There are all kinds of things that people now have opened their imagination to of what they themselves can achieve.
- [41:48]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. We have Michael Patrick Thornton. You know, he's now in Waiting for Godot, a very talented guy. I got to see my friend Ryan J. Haddad do La Cage aux Fall out in California. And it's just, you know, seeing a walker on stage, it's so powerful. It's just. It's so powerful for audiences. So I'm excited to see where we are five years from now, ten years from now. What are your sort of dreams of? What are the dreams? What are your dreams for yourself now? I'm sure your world has just kind of opened up in wild ways over the last few years.
- [42:21]
Jenna
Yeah. I mean, my dream for audiences is that disability becomes so normalized on stage and on screen, that they start to accept it more for themselves. That, you know, I see so many people who are reluctant to get and use the assistive aids that would really benefit their life. Right. People who are unwilling to start using a cane or start using a hearing aid. Things that would really, really make their lives better. I hope that by seeing it normalized, they're able to embrace it in their own lives. That's my hope for the world. And then my hope for myself is that I can. I just want to keep performing. I just want to keep showing people the vivacity that the disabled community has. And I really want to tell disabled stories. I really hope that I can do more theater and film and TV that is focused on disabled characters written by disabled writers and tell the history of disability. Because it's something we don't know a lot about as a culture. We don't know the history of the ada. It's really recent history. I was not alive when the ADA was passed, but just barely. Right. This is very recent history. We think of it as all the photos are in black and white. It was the 90s. Why are the photos in black and white? This is recent history. And I want the whole world to know, like, we just got this legislation and we could lose it very easily because it's still so new. So I want people to know how important the fights have been and how vital they are.
- [44:03]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. And to use it. And you're right. To make sure that theater owners know that they need these things. Right. That the hearing devices and all of the. And the wheelchair seating and to bring people into these spaces. Because people need to know that that audience wants to be there.
- [44:19]
Jenna
Yes.
- [44:20]
Paul Wontorek
And that audience needs to know that they are welcome there.
- [44:22]
Jenna
Yes. 100%.
- [44:24]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. It's good work you're doing. I do want to talk to you a little bit about sort of your commute. So you drive into the city every day.
- [44:32]
Jenna
Yes.
- [44:33]
Paul Wontorek
So tell me about. Tell me about sort of your life and how. Tell me about the process of going from here to the city and just tell me all that.
- [44:43]
Jenna
Yeah. So I got really overwhelmed at the prospect of trying to find a wheelchair accessible apartment in New York in my price range. That felt impossible because it kind of is.
- [44:56]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [44:57]
Jenna
So I.
- [45:00]
Paul Wontorek
Very modern buildings.
- [45:01]
Jenna
Yes. Modern buildings, like accessibility is viewed as luxury.
- [45:04]
Paul Wontorek
Right.
- [45:05]
Jenna
Having an elevator in your building takes the price up. Having a building that is, you know, wide enough doorways that you can fit your wheelchair through them or a bathroom big enough to also have your wheelchair in it is Luxury.
- [45:18]
Paul Wontorek
Yes.
- [45:18]
Jenna
So I got really overwhelmed trying to figure that out. And my sister was already living up here, and so we decided to, let's just go be near her. She's got two little girls. I wanted to be really involved in their lives as well.
- [45:34]
Paul Wontorek
So everybody's nearby? Everybody nearby.
- [45:36]
Jenna
Yep, we're all here. And it allowed me to maintain more of what I was used to in Denver, where I park right in front of my house. I can drive to the grocery store and, you know, load the bags into my trunk and drive them home. I'm not trying to deal with, like, carrying bags on my lap through New York City.
- [45:55]
Paul Wontorek
Right.
- [45:56]
Jenna
That. That felt overwhelming to me.
- [45:57]
Paul Wontorek
And figuring out which subway station has an elevator that works well.
- [46:00]
Jenna
And that's the thing, is that only someone fact checked me. Only 30% of the subways are wheelchair accessible. I think it might be less than that. So a very tiny amount.
- [46:12]
Paul Wontorek
All I know is the other day I was on a subway and they announced that the. At that station, the elevator was broken. So there you go.
- [46:19]
Jenna
There's a great video. Brad Lander did a whole tour of what it means when the elevator is out and how long it would take you to get to. I think they were trying to go to a Mets game. I can't remember exactly where they were going, but it was like a pretty normal train commute and how much time it added to the commute if the elevator's out. Because if the elevator's out, you have to get back on the train, go to the next stop that has an elevator, which might be 20 minutes further, then get on a bus and backtrack. It can add two hours to your day if the elevator's out. And that's if there's an elevator at all most of the time. So, for example, to get to Wicked, the nearest wheelchair accessible subway station is at 42nd Street. Wicked's 50th. So that's eight blocks.
- [47:07]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [47:08]
Jenna
Which is a lot, especially if you have a disability.
- [47:11]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah. Through Times Square.
- [47:12]
Jenna
Exactly. Through the most chaotic part of New York City.
- [47:18]
Paul Wontorek
King Kong in your way.
- [47:19]
Jenna
Yes. That I knew was just not going to be a very easy experience for me. So I also didn't know before I moved to New York, you can just drive. You can. Like, you don't think you can. You think that, like, no one has a car in New York and everyone should take public transit. Please take public transit. I can't. So I learned very quickly how to drive in New York. Luckily, I'm very good at parallel parking. And when I Negotiated my contracts both for Suffs and for Wicked. I asked for them to provide parking for me and that makes it really easy. I've got a half hour commute and then I park right near the theater and I'm able to roll on in, which is. Been a huge lifesaver.
- [48:01]
Paul Wontorek
So you just. And you're good with the Westchester traffic and you're getting used to it. The parkways and the.
- [48:07]
Jenna
Exactly. It's a little bit of a variable. There are definitely days where it takes a lot longer, but for the most part, everyone has to deal with delays. I'm either gonna be stuck in traffic or I'll be stuck on a train. At least this way I know my wheelchair's with me and it's safe and I'm not gonna be trapped underground with it.
- [48:26]
Paul Wontorek
Does it really hit you that you're part of the, like, the Wicked fandom? I mean, that's like going to be the rest of your life. That's huge.
- [48:32]
Jenna
It is certainly not. It hasn't clicked. Yeah, I'm like, I'm just feeling very excited that I'm like, I'm a working actor on Broadway. This is great. It hasn't really sunk in that, like, Wicked is the thing I've been able to do.
- [48:45]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [48:46]
Jenna
Still just going with the motions, enjoying it as I go, seeing what happens.
- [48:50]
Paul Wontorek
Awesome.
- [48:52]
Tamsen Fadal
And now here's my interview with the story star of Wicked. I want to jump in because I feel like you have had an exciting year.
- [49:01]
Jenna
Oh, my gosh.
- [49:03]
Tamsen Fadal
This show has created icons, truly, of Wicked and just like, in the world in general, what is it like to be there with the Christian Chenoweth of the world and the Ariana Grande of the world and the.
- [49:12]
Ally Trim
Oh, my gosh. It's kind of surreal. Like, I just feel like I grew up watching this story and I grew up so impacted by this musical when I was really, really young. And so to be sitting and watching the movie and Stephen Schwartz is sitting right behind me. And like, at this point, over the years with Wicked, I've. I've performed with him at a lot of different events and. And it's just been really incredible to be like, oh, my gosh, pinch me, I'm here. I'm a part of this right now. Like, I'm not just here watching through the window. I'm a part of this. And it feels like a huge honor. And I can't even. I can't even believe it, really.
- [49:48]
Tamsen Fadal
It's exciting to see the movies and, and the audience it has created and now, now generations yeah, right.
- [49:56]
Ally Trim
It's a whole new. A whole new audience is coming into the show because it opened 22 years ago. And now with the movies coming out, I feel like there's such a wider net that Wicked can now reach. I mean, worldwide. It's already had performances, touring in every country, but it's so much more accessible now to anyone. And so people know the story, they know the characters, they're falling in love with it from a new starting point. So to be in the Broadway company now has been really interesting. Like these new fans are coming in and up until this month, they still might not know how it ends. I mean, maybe they listen to the album or watch a video or something, but they might not know how it ends. So that's been a really fun thing too, to hear the audience react and to see that, like, we almost never do a show for a not sold out audience. There are thousands of people that are still every day coming to see the show live. And it's really cool. It shows me that, like, yes, people want to see Wicked in the movie form and they can, but it's an extra additional thing to be in the live room where it's happening. And I think it's really beautiful to see people getting the story from all of these different modalities.
- [51:15]
Tamsen Fadal
I do too. And that, and that, that live energy, you can never, you can never replace. You can never even explain special.
- [51:22]
Ally Trim
And something cool too is like we're in the Gershwin Theater and, and Wicked has been there for 22 years. And I don't mean that like, theoretically. It's like the sets are the same. The, the, the netting on the monkeys, things that they climb on the ropes.
- [51:38]
Jenna
The.
- [51:39]
Ally Trim
Everything is the same that it's always been. So when you're in those seats, it's like these are the walls that echoed Kristin Chenoweth's voice, and these are the walls that have echoed 22 years of Elphaba's Defying Gravity. So it's really, you know, you can feel it. You can feel it there, but I.
- [51:56]
Tamsen Fadal
Can feel it from you too. I love how you took all that in too. You're not just coming in and going, okay, this is my time, but this is a continuation of everyone's time.
- [52:05]
Jenna
Absolutely.
- [52:06]
Ally Trim
Yeah. I think that was kind of my thought from the start, was, of course you want to. To the role. And I think that I do that just inherently by being myself, but I really draw inspiration from every Glinda that I've ever seen. And it feels like to be a part of A legacy or to be like a step in a lineage feels really special. And I hope that I can contribute something to that moving forward. And I definitely feel it that I'm soaking it in from the people who have paved the way. And something else that's really cool. Here I am just like, rambling.
- [52:43]
Tamsen Fadal
No, I love it. I love it. This is your time.
- [52:46]
Ally Trim
But so I started out as the standby for Glinda. And when you are the standby or an understudy or an incoming member, you typically are using costume pieces that have been used by previous performers. So it wasn't until I started this full time contract that I had costumes built for my own body from scratch. And before that I was wearing costumes. And you can look at the history of tags so I can see that I'm wearing, you know, Megan Hilty's corset and Katie Rose Clark's Act 2 skirt. And all of these different people's, like the literal fabric that they embodied. Embodied.
- [53:26]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah.
- [53:26]
Ally Trim
So there's like a cool, tactical, real way of feeling a part of the lineage. And I think that's just so special and cool.
- [53:34]
Tamsen Fadal
I think that's amazing. I don't think I'd love to go see that, like, do the, you know, do the look.
- [53:39]
Jenna
It's great.
- [53:40]
Ally Trim
I like that they keep them there too. They don't just like, rip it out. Yeah, exactly. It's like a history of each piece that's made.
- [53:47]
Tamsen Fadal
It's touching and feeling and people's hands that put that together and, you know, the energy.
- [53:52]
Ally Trim
Incredible costumes that are very difficult to make. I mean, there are people whose their whole jobs are just to keep the costumes looking put together and to re sew each sequin on. And so there are a lot of people that contribute to the costumes being what they are and makes it that much more special to.
- [54:08]
Tamsen Fadal
Well, your appreciation makes it really special too. I really think that's what you bring to it. So you've been part of the cast for a long time. And let's talk about the day that you found out that this was your role to step into.
- [54:21]
Ally Trim
Well, it was a big day. I was waiting in line to cast my vote for the presidential election. And I had such hopes, you know, of course, we always have our hopes. And my phone rang and my manager was like, do you want some good news? And I was like, I think I have to vote first and I'm gonna call you back so I can scream, you know. So it was like such an overwhelming day where I just thought, wow, like there's so much that I can't predict in the future on this exact moment. And I'm gonna see how this next year unfolds. And so I can at least say that there were some great reasons that I personally got to celebrate that day.
- [55:04]
Tamsen Fadal
How incredible. I mean, talk about knowing where you were that day. That's the one you. You'll never forget. Is there one Glinda in particular, you think, that really has resonated with you or made a big difference on the Glinda you are today?
- [55:19]
Ally Trim
Yeah. So when I first saw Wicked, it was on tour, and I was maybe 11. I grew up in San Diego, so I saw it on tour in San Diego, and the cast that I saw was Kendra Casseboum and Stephanie J. Block. And they were just so incredible. I mean, my mom tells me that I was sitting there, like, jaw down the whole time. Didn't blink. So when I saw the show the first time, I did the stage door experience, and I took a picture with Kendra Kassebaum, and I just. I wore my pink popular shirt, and I saw them a year or so later, same cast, and I made a whole T shirt. I like, I hand bedazzled the whole thing. It was like a whole arts and crafts moment. And I waited and I waited and I waited. Cause I wanted to show Kendra Casabon my shirt. I wanted to say thank you to her again. And of course, you know, I know now that you really just can't always stage door. But as a child, I was like, we're waiting. She has to leave at some point. We're waiting. And my parents said, okay, we'll wait. And to cut to the chase, she did finally come out, and she saw that I had been waiting for her, and she said, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm so sorry that I didn't know you were here. Let me make it up to you. And she took me backstage with a friend of mine, and she showed us the scenes. She galindified us. And she put glitter on my eyes, and she let me hold her wand. And just. I remember thinking, like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm in Wicked right now, and I'm 11 years old, and, like, I'm in it. This is what I want to do. And I. And I was so impacted by her generosity with her time and her space and energy. And that has stuck with me throughout my whole life and my career in terms of what I want to bring to any place that I work, whether it's Wicked or elsewhere. But it's definitely stuck with Me at Wicked. And for a long time, we weren't allowed to do backstage tours because of COVID restrictions. And so I started making these little pink flower barrettes. And so if I did have the capacity to go to a stage door on a certain show, I would, like.
- [57:30]
Jenna
Put these little barrettes and little kids.
- [57:33]
Ally Trim
Hair as a way of kind of honoring that experience that I got as a child and trying to get. Keep that cycle moving forward as well, because it was just so special to me.
- [57:43]
Jenna
And it changed your life? It changed my life.
- [57:45]
Ally Trim
I was like, I'm gonna do that. And then I made it. I made sure that I was able to do it.
- [57:50]
Tamsen Fadal
Have you ever connected with her again?
- [57:52]
Ally Trim
Yeah, actually, I don't remember what year it was, but maybe 10 years after that or so we were both cast in a workshop of a musical where we were playing the same character at different stages of life. And I remember thinking, like, whoa, this is a really cool full circle moment for me to be able to, I don't know, be. Be near someone that was so influential for me. And then again, now, you know, to be wearing the same crowns and singing in the same halls. So it's really special.
- [58:23]
Tamsen Fadal
That's, like, one of my favorite stories, I think, that I've heard that really is, like, what one person can do to somebody's life.
- [58:28]
Ally Trim
Yeah.
- [58:29]
Paul Wontorek
Yeah.
- [58:29]
Ally Trim
I'll never forget that. And, yeah, so if she's. If you're watching this.
- [58:33]
Jenna
Thank you. She could very well be.
- [58:36]
Tamsen Fadal
She could very well be. And you've had a full circle moment also with Ariana Grande, Is that right?
- [58:41]
Ally Trim
Yeah, yeah. So we also grew up together. We Both were in 13, the musical, Jason Robert Brown musical in 2008. So that's been an incredibly, like, coincidental Universal. I don't even know how to describe it. Like, what are the odds? But, yeah, we were teenagers together on Broadway, and then she's soaring as Glinda now, and I just got to see her in person and congratulate her and share in some of the excitement when we saw the movie last week.
- [59:14]
Jenna
So happy for you.
- [59:15]
Tamsen Fadal
You're wonderful. Thank you so much. That's gonna be a wrap for this latest episode of the Broadway show Uncut. Until next time, I'm Tamsen Fadal, and I'll see you soon.