Willkommen! Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace in 'Cabaret'

Summary

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The Broadway Show: Uncut

Episode: Willkommen! Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace in 'Cabaret'

Date: August 27, 2025
Host(s): Tamsen Fadal, Paul Wontorek
Guests: Billy Porter (MC), Marisha Wallace (Sally Bowles), Tom Scutt (Set/Costume Designer)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The Broadway Show: Uncut" dives into the immersive Broadway revival of Cabaret, starring Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace. The conversation explores the power of casting Black leads in a traditionally white musical, the meaning and impact of reinterpretation, and the experience of telling richer, more inclusive stories on stage. Later, Tony-winning designer Tom Scutt discusses the artistic vision and immersive set that define this production, emphasizing its contemporary resonance and the collaborative, queer-driven creative process.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reinterpreting Cabaret Through New Lenses (00:28 – 07:19)

• Unique Casting & Partnership:
  • Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace discuss joining Cabaret as an intentionally paired duo.
  • Porter reveals he first wanted to play the MC nearly 30 years ago but was “denied even the audition” and reflects on the timing:

    "God's delay is not denial. You know, had I done this role when I thought I should have been able to, it wouldn’t be the same right now, you know, with two black people, three black people in these roles for the first time in a commercial production." (00:53, Billy Porter)

  • The significance of three Black leads is highlighted as “profound and important... particularly with the parallels of what's going on in American history.” (00:53, Billy Porter)
• Marisha’s Journey & Agency:
  • Wallace describes her trajectory from Broadway to London stardom, notably her roles that “weren't traditionally cast with women of color.”
  • She shares how she actively shaped the Sally Bowles casting process:

    "I was seeing all the signs for Cabaret, and I was like, wait a minute. Sally Bowles hasn't had the Marisha Wallace treatment yet. ... I wanted to dive into the history of what it would mean to be Black in 1930s Nazi Germany as a performer." (02:51, Marisha Wallace)

  • She reached out to Porter directly, noting a shared interest in addressing the overlooked history of Black people in pre-war Germany.

2. Historical Resonance & Character Depth (05:00 – 12:52)

• Research & Storytelling:
  • Porter and Wallace both bring up the book Destined to Witness: Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany as foundational to their approach, using it to demonstrate the historical truth: “We were there.” (05:04, Billy Porter & Marisha Wallace)
  • Wallace connects their efforts to broader lessons for audiences:

    “If everyone knew that this was also their history, could we possibly try to not let it happen again?” (02:51, Marisha Wallace)

• Expanded Emotional Range:
  • The production allows both actors to portray complex, fully realized humans, breaking past stereotypical roles:

    "The opportunity to ... play three dimensional human beings and not archetypes or stereotypes is a gift." (13:18, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace notes the significance of simply getting to be a complicated woman on a Broadway stage:

    "...to be this character who can go through a full arc where you're the center of the narrative—that's so wild even to think in 2025..." (14:35, Marisha Wallace)

3. The Power of Reinterpretation (06:03 – 08:13)

• Classics and Continuous Reimagining:
  • Porter and Wallace draw parallels to Shakespeare as a classic that is constantly re-set in new contexts without controversy, arguing this should be embraced for musical theater:

    "It's the same picture. It’s just got a different filter on it." (07:19, Marisha Wallace)

  • They both stress that “classic” works remain relevant when seen through the “human stories” at their core.
• Specific Scenes and Their Impact with Black Leads:
  • Porter on Tomorrow Belongs to Me:

    "I can't assimilate. So I show up at the end in my cornrows, and the intention for my character is I've run long enough. I'm not running no more. ... My intention is rage." (08:23–11:15, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace on Sally’s arc:

    "To work at this club is her survival. And that hits different. ... It's the same lines. They just hit so differently." (12:20, Marisha Wallace)

4. Community, Diversity & Company Culture (16:14 – 19:36)

• Company Diversity:
  • Both praise the cast and director Rebecca Frecknall for treating each ensemble member as an individual character.

    "Every character in this play has a name. Nobody is man, one girl, one. ... So that when the time comes where everyone is forced to assimilate, it's that much more devastating to watch." (17:46, Billy Porter)

  • The cast is notably diverse in race, gender identity, and body type, including nonbinary dressing rooms.

    "It's such a colorful cast in all types of diversity...everyone feels safe. ... There's a room for the 'them, theys.'" (18:38–19:21, Marisha Wallace & Billy Porter)

5. Space, Scale & Physical Experience (15:49 – 16:53)

• Differences Between Broadway & London:
  • Wallace jokes about running across the massive Broadway stage and “losing weight in two weeks.”
  • Porter appreciates the more comfortable, accessible Broadway stage:

    "Thank you for the padded stairs. ... In London, I come up from the trap five times, and it was like a crawl space. ... I didn't realize how hard that was on my body until I came over here." (16:27, Billy Porter)

6. Enjoying the Spotlight & Reflections on the Journey (19:36 – 22:15)

• Visibility:
  • Both marvel at seeing their names above the title on posters and in Shubert Alley.
  • Porter delights in reliving the Broadway experience through Wallace:

    "I get to re-experience what it feels like to go through this for the first time...it's just magical." (20:35, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace hopes her journey inspires artists:

    "It may not come when you want it, but it's right on time. ... My win is their win." (21:19, Marisha Wallace)

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Tom Scutt Interview: Immersive Design & Queer Vision (22:23 – 36:28)

1. Creating the Kit Kat Club: Artistic Approach (22:27 – 25:16)

• Pandemic Beginnings:
  • The UK production began as a "dream too perfect to actually materialize" during lockdown—driven by the need to nurture artists and rebuild community.
• A Home for Artists:
  • The Kit Kat Club is envisioned as a collaboratively subversive, queer-positive space:

    "I wanted it to feel like artists, creatives, queer culture had sort of taken over a building that was part of the mainstream, I suppose, and subverted it slightly." (24:02, Tom Scutt)

2. Costumes, Iconography, and Immersive Atmosphere (26:11 – 32:14)

• Costume & Set Philosophy:
  • Scutt’s costume designs reflect the space, the cast, and individuality; each Kit Kat Club member’s look is tailored, with no generic swing costumes.

    "Each of them feel very distinct from each other and were totally derived from the people that come in to play those parts..." (26:18, Tom Scutt)

  • The design plays against traditional expectations, seeking "boldness and bravery and artistic integrity."
• Birthday Hat Origin & Visual Metaphors:
  • The iconic onset "Birthday Hat" started as a prop for Eddie Redmayne in early workshops and stuck, symbolizing the show's shift from childish exuberance to darkness.
• Immersive Audience Experience:
  • Pre-show activity blurs line between performer and audience; the design generates a "rabbit hole transformation" upon entry.
  • Innovative features include Cabaret tables with interactive phone calls, further playing into the “eye” of the voyeuristic set and “temple” vibe.

    "It speaks so much of voyeurism and complicity and somehow always being observed. Like, who is being observed? Is it the performers or is it the audience?" (31:15, Tom Scutt)

3. Respecting Theater History & Spatial Innovation (32:25 – 35:58)

• Honoring the Past:
  • Subtle references to the Guild Theatre’s 100-year legacy appear in the architecture and iconography.
• Space & Scale:
  • While the Broadway Kit Kat Club is much bigger than London’s, the design "hasn’t affected intimacy"; audiences actually feel closer:

    "If anything, I think the spatial relationships here are better ... and even if you're sitting in the back row ... you're still nearer to the action on stage than you would have been normally." (33:48, Tom Scutt)

4. Shared Ownership & Event Experience (36:00 – 36:28)

• Audience as Participant:
  • Scutt stresses the essential two-way relationship between performers and audience; the event is as much about community as art:

    "It's not just about this, but it's about who we are together and what it means for us to sit next to each other and experience work like this." (36:00, Tom Scutt)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Billy Porter, on timing and opportunity:

  "God's delay is not denial." (00:53)

• Marisha Wallace, on representation:

  "Sally Bowles hasn't had the Marisha Wallace treatment yet... I wanted to dive into the history of what it would mean to be Black in 1930s Nazi Germany as a performer." (02:51)

• On classics and evolution:

  "Classics... don't exist in a vacuum. They exist to be reinterpreted inside of our humanity." (06:48, Billy Porter)

• On ensemble diversity and impact:

  "Every character in this play has a name. ... So that when the time comes where everyone is forced to assimilate, it's that much more devastating..." (17:46, Billy Porter)

• Tom Scutt, on set aesthetic:

  "I wanted it to feel like artists, creatives, queer culture had sort of taken over a building that was part of the mainstream, I suppose, and subverted it slightly." (24:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – Interview with Billy Porter & Marisha Wallace begins
• 02:51 – Wallace discusses her vision for Sally Bowles and representation
• 05:03 – The influence of Destined to Witness and Black history in Germany
• 08:23 – Powerful moments in the show with Black leads
• 13:18 – Playing multidimensional, non-stereotypical roles
• 16:02 – Comparing Broadway and London physical productions
• 17:29 – Company diversity and representation
• 19:36 – Reflections on visibility, posters, and returning to Broadway
• 22:23 – Tom Scutt interview: designing the immersive Kit Kat Club
• 24:02 – Creating a queer, subversive, artist-driven space
• 26:11 – Costume and scenic design details
• 31:15 – Iconography of “the eye” and building history into the set
• 33:48 – Audience proximity and intimacy on Broadway
• 36:00 – Shared experience and the event nature of this Cabaret

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Final Notes

This episode offers a layered, candid look at the making of Broadway’s most immersive Cabaret yet—how its Black lead actors and queer creative team wield history, personal journeys, and bold design to re-charge a classic for today’s stage and audience. Both the production and its process are defined by intentionality, inclusivity, and a belief in theater as a constantly evolving, community-rooted art form.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Broadway show Uncut. I'm Tamsen Fadal. Life is a cabaret, especially at the Kit Kat Club on Broadway. It's a totally immersive revival of Cabaret now starring Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace. Coming up in just a few, you're gonna hear from Cabaret's Tony winning set designer. But first, here's Paul Wontorek.

[B]

Welcome to the cabaret. How are you two?

[C]

Hello, B.

[B]

It's like a twofer. I love how they put them in together.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[C]

A, two for one. We laced together. We came back together.

[D]

Yes, we did.

[B]

It's very unique though, for a long running show, right, that they sort of like they've been in. Very intentional. It's in pairs.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

And I love that and I love this pair. And it must be fun to approach it together and jump in together.

[D]

Yeah. I never would have done it with anybody but Marisha. And I didn't really understand that, you know, 30 years ago when I wanted to play this part, you know, and was denied even the audition to do so. It's all good. It's just I didn't really realize that all these years later, almost 30 years later, would be the time. Everything in its time, everything. What is for you is for you. And that's really true. And it proves itself to be true to me the longer I live more and more. So. You know, my mom used to always say, God's delay is not denial. You know, had I done this role when I thought I should have been able to, it wouldn't be the same right now, you know, with two black people, three black people in these roles for the first time in a commercial production in this almost 60 year history of this musical. It's really profound and important that it's happening right now, particularly with the parallels of what's going on in American history.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Marisha, you have had quite a wonderful career in London. I loved you on Broadway, but you never had a leading role on Broadway. And you went off to London and became a star. Effie. Effie took you to the stratosphere over.

[C]

I went from eggy white to Effie white. I was a tap dancing eggie when I left. And I came back a star.

[B]

And it's been so fantastic to watch. You know, I'm a big fan of yours. What was it like jumping into rehearsals and finding out that you were doing it with Billie? And how did this all come about when you were over in show?

[C]

Well, we put this all together, so I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do after playing Adelaide in Guys and Dolls, where I got.

[B]

To take a role Olivier nominated.

[C]

Olivier nominated to Olivier nominations.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

It was amazing. And I got to take a role that wasn't traditionally cast with women of color in this part and got to make it my own and use my own influences of, like, jazz and Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald and really infuse my. So it was color conscious, not just colorblind. And I learned so much working with Nick Heitner about how to reinterpret scripts without changing a word. And I was like, well, how can I do that again? And then I was walking around in the tube, and I was seeing all the signs for Cabaret, and I was like, well, wait a minute. Sally Bowles hasn't had the Marisha Wallace treatment yet. And I wanted to, like, really dive into the history of what it would. What it would mean to be black in 1930s in Nazi Germany as a performer. And I got the audition. I got a dialect coach so that my bridge accent, I was like, I'm not gonna. My bridge accent was gonna be flawless. I was like, this gotta be right. And then I auditioned, got the part, and they were like, you're amazing. This is all great, but you need an emcee that can match you. And Billy and I have been friends for a long time. I don't know people know this. Like, I met Billy in my house. He was eating a hot dog on my couch because he came to my cookout with my friend Dennis. This was probably 20, what, 13, 12? Something like that. 15 years ago. Something like that. Long time ago when I was first on Broadway and I met Billy then. And I was like, I feel like we're gonna be each other's lives for a long time. And then he would come visit me in London. And then when they were like, you need MC to match me? I was like, I think I know the perfect person. And I called Billy, and I was like, were we there? Like, black people in Nazi Germany haven't really been spoken about? And I was like, this might be a chance for us to open up these stories and really open up this part of history to show that a lot of people were affected. And if everyone knew that this was also their history, could we possibly try to not let it happen again? And I was like, that's a story that we kind of need to tell. And then when I called you, you told me your story with Cabaret and how you wanted to always do it. And I was like, oh, my God.

[D]

In that book and the book That I found back then.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Destined to witness, growing up black in Nazi Germany, that, you know, I sent to the creative team and said, we are there. We've always been there.

[C]

Yeah. And you sent that book. And that was the same book I read. Because when I tried to audition. Well, trying to get the audition, I sent them excerpts from this book and was like, we were there. And so it all came together. He said yes, ATG said yes, and everyone who has to say yes. And that's where it all began. And it just came from us being like, wait a minute, why hasn't this story ever been told in this lens? And it's not taken any way, anything away from it, if anything, has enriched the story even more. I think it's really shown how oppressed people from all different sides are affected by what happens in the world when fascism takes power. Yeah.

[B]

So we're in the Kit Kat Club, obviously. It's always been sort of a place for others. Right. And it's sort of an underground hiding. It's almost like there's a lot of the shadows. Right. Of the Kit Kat Club. So when they see two black performers taking on this story, obviously, like you said, we are telling people these people were there as well. It adds power. But, like, every performer who takes on these roles brings their story, right?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And you obviously want people to. You want people to be doing all this sort of work in their heads in the. In the theater. Right. I mean, because the classics, you can really build on top of the classics. I think that's what we learn over time.

[D]

Right.

[B]

That you can.

[D]

That's what makes them classic.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Is that they don't exist in a vacuum.

[B]

Right.

[D]

You know, they exist to be reinterpreted inside of our humanity. It's about human stories, not about black and white or gray or female or male or, you know, whatever we place on it. You know, when art transcends, that's when you have something that's classic.

[C]

Well, I think about Shakespeare, anytime Shakespeare is classic, they put Shakespeare in the hood. They put it in the richest part of town. There's been different countries, there's been different time periods, and no one bats an eye. And I was like. And that's why Shakespeare tradition can keep evolving, because they're not afraid to try to put these classics in different places. But we can do this with musical theater. We can see these classic shows with different lenses, and it's going to hit different. It's the same picture. It's just got a different filter on it. And it's like the red is a little bit more red, the green is a bit more green, and I think it brings new generations into the theater. Now we're looking at Cabaret. There's older generations coming to enjoy this. They're bringing their kids, they're bringing their grandk. We have to keep evolving if we want theater to keep progressing and to stay alive.

[B]

When you actually dug into the script and got into rehearsals and got on stage, are there specific moments, lines, or just moments in the show that you think actually hit harder in your.

[D]

Well, I feel like, you know, we. Both of our backstories include, you know, fleeing the Jim Crow south to go to Europe to a place where we thought we would be safe. I feel like in this production in particular, when the emcee sings Tomorrow Belongs to Me for the first time, and we hear that sort of anthem of, you know, the Aryan Hitler Youth. In this production, it's staged where the emcee has a box and he goes into the box and he pulls out a blonde wig, and the ensemble is placing little statues around me of these blonde Aryan men. And traditionally, when a white emcee plays it, they leave the stage with the wig in their hand, sort of foreshadowing that they will put the wig on at the end of the play during the time of the occupation. And they could, if they wanted to fit in, they could put on the blonde wig and assimilate. Yeah, the first thing that I said when I walked into rehearsals is, you know, I can't assimilate. Right. And I got to put this wig back in the box before I leave. And that's something that's really powerful because I can't assimilate. So I show up at the end in my cornrows, and the intention for my character is I've run long enough. I'm not running no more. So whatever is to be is to be come. Whatever's to come, bring it. Right? Yeah. So my intention is rage. More so than sometimes I've seen it, where the emcee actually does assimilate and becomes an antagonist. And then there are some that I've seen where he sort of gives over, but mine is rage.

[C]

I think the line that hits really hard, especially in America, is when Cliff is like, we're going home. I'm going to take you home, back to America. And my Sally really wanted. So when Cliff says, I want to take you back home to America. But my Sally came away from there to become a star in this Kit Kat Club. This is her Broadway. This Is even this is seedy nightclub. She gets to be a star here. She doesn't have to be a maid, she doesn't have to be anyone's worker. She doesn't have to live under the thumb, anyone. She lives on her own terms. So actually, for her to go back to America, when he says, come back with me. We're going home. And she's like, certainly, that's fine for you, but what about me, my career? And he said, oh, running away to America. Even when I say that, people are like, whoa. Like, a word has not changed. A word has not changed. It's the same lines. They just hit so differently.

[B]

Picture what Sally's life would actually be.

[C]

What is her options? And it was the first time I've ever experienced a Sally, even though I'm playing it where she doesn't have anywhere to go to. And I felt like other Sallys that I've seen before because, you know, she's from Mayfair, she's not Jewish, she's not British. I mean, she's not German. So she could flee home or she could go somewhere else. But my Sally feels like this is her only hope. Like, to work at this club is her survival. And that hits different. And these lines are very powerful with that.

[B]

You both sort of started on Broadway and on similar tracks. For me at least, you were kind of like the stand there and sizzle, like, you know what I mean? Like, you came out and something rotten, magical black fairy. She's fabulous. And an Aladdin. She's fabulous. And then you and Grease and Smokey Joes and five guys named Mo. Right? All these like, great sort of.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, you've spoken about this before, but the opportunity to get a big play.

[D]

Human beings play a human being, three dimensional human beings and not archetypes and or stereotypes is a gift. It's a major gift for me and I know for Marisha, and we've both worked very hard to be in the position where we can demand that. It's been. It's been a gift.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, to be. But not even just be a black woman, but to just get a woman's role, period in musical theater that is fully realized where you get to have rage, you get to be funny, you get to be sad, you get to be weak, you get to be strong.

[D]

You'Re jealous, you get to speak in a British accent.

[C]

You get to speak in a British accent. You fall in love, you fall all in love.

[B]

Give me a taste of that British accent.

[C]

Oh, yes, darling, please, darling. We have lots of things that you can.

[D]

You know, she's a British citizen now, so, you know.

[C]

But, yeah, but even just, I get to stretch my mind muscles in ways that I never was allowed to. Like, I got a taste of it with Adelaide, and then this is kind of like the next step in being able.

[B]

But I mean, how I should know?

[C]

I mean, right. Like, to be this character who can go through a full arc where you're the center of the narrative, that's so wild even to think in 2025, that's something that's special. Like, that should just be something that is not. You know, it's like, oh, okay, of course there should be that. But it is special, and it's been amazing to do that.

[B]

Have you ever thought of any other things you could do together that maybe would be more of an escape than. Cabaret is a heavy lift. It's a beautiful show. Everybody needs to see it.

[D]

Yeah. It's not. It's not the easiest, but it's worth it. It is worth it.

[B]

It's worth it.

[C]

It gives as much as it feels.

[B]

Like a good meal.

[D]

Right?

[C]

It's a good meal.

[B]

But what about just, like, any frivolous fun. You two, Any shenanigans?

[C]

I don't know. We should do a new one.

[B]

You're a director. You'll envision something new.

[C]

Well, we do need to tell new stories. I think that's what people are like. Well, why do you got to go back and do the old? Because there's not enough news stories to be told. There are enough stories.

[D]

They just don't. They don't pay for them.

[C]

There you go. So we need to get more news stories made. I think that's what's happening. That would be amazing to get more news stories made.

[B]

Talk about the environment a little bit. I mean, you did. You obviously did it in London. I saw the Kit Kat Club in London. I saw Kep right there as well. It's a little different.

[C]

Different.

[B]

The same design, but shaped differently. A little bit. Right. Does it feel like you're just in the same space? Does it feel like there's, like, an.

[C]

Alternate double the size?

[D]

Three times the amount. It's three times the size, isn't it?

[C]

Well, it's.

[B]

It's big.

[C]

It's 1,000 versus 500 people. A little bit over a thousand. But then the backstage area, we just have so much space. We're like, oh, my God. We can, like, luxuriate.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[C]

But then also, I'm running from one side of the stage to the Other I've lost so much weight. Two weeks.

[D]

But I will say that they're like, osha, thank you for the padded stairs.

[C]

Yes, thank you.

[D]

You know, in London, I come up from the trap five times, and it was like a crawl space.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And I didn't realize how hard that was on my body until I came over here and I don't have to crawl, and all of a sudden, I'm not in pain.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, that's been amazing.

[B]

You deserve that.

[D]

Yes. I was in pain a lot. I love. I love London and I love it.

[B]

We love it.

[C]

But that was a real thing. Like, that was theater. You know what I mean? Like, we were in the theater. Okay. This is like, okay, Broadway. This is nice. Give it a little bit comfortable. Little luxury.

[D]

You get paid your quote, too. That's nice.

[C]

Yeah, nice.

[B]

What about. What I love about this production is the ensemble, the whole company. When you. When you go see the show, you just kind of. It's just such a beautiful, very queer, very fabulous, very Broadway family. What's it been like joining. Joining them?

[C]

Well, the cast is so talented. Like, you forget the level of talent that's here in the city. Like, every single person could be the lead.

[B]

Well, that's what we used to say about you. We used to say that girl. That girl should be the lead in the show.

[D]

Right.

[C]

It's amazing.

[D]

And, you know, they are. Every character in this play has a name. Nobody is man, one girl, one. Everybody has a name. And thus, you know, Rebecca Frecknall has directed it that way, you know, directed it so that every single person on the stage is an individual human being. So that when the time comes where everyone is forced to assimilate, it's that much more devastating to watch, you know, and to sort of have to be a part of.

[C]

I really love the diversity as well. Like, even in body types, like, Mimi is so stunning. Like, there's just every single body type is on display, and that's how it would be in a club. You know what I mean? Like, these people coming, you know, to get their things, and everybody's got a different menu.

[D]

What are they getting? Put it. What are they getting? What are they getting?

[C]

We're getting our things.

[D]

Okay, our things.

[C]

But I just love that everybody is represented. It's such a colorful cast in all types of diversity as well. And I think that's so needed in the space, everyone feels safe. But even in gender diversity as well, it's just incredible.

[D]

There's a room for the them. Theys.

[C]

Yeah, we have non Binary dressing rooms.

[D]

There's a non binary dressing room.

[C]

Lots of access.

[D]

Hi, kids.

[C]

It's gorgeous.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

All the people choose your room.

[D]

Choose the room you need.

[C]

Honey, that's fantastic.

[B]

So does it get old, walking around and seeing yourself on the posters? I mean, cabaret is a big event.

[C]

It's not getting old.

[D]

I've seen my name on the posters. I gotta go work. I gotta go walk around.

[C]

I showed you one.

[D]

Yeah, I've seen it on the. I've seen phone booths, the digital. Where's Schubert Alley?

[C]

That's a.

[D]

No, I'm saying where is it? In Shubarak.

[C]

It's on the.

[D]

It's on the thing.

[B]

You're in the lineup.

[C]

You're in the lineup, and your name is on there.

[D]

The name is on the line.

[B]

Tony winner, Emmy winner, above.

[C]

To come back above the title is crazy. That's wild. And so been above the title one.

[D]

One time before on Broadway. I shared it with five other people. Four other people. But this time, it's just the two of us.

[C]

It's just the two of us.

[B]

I love it. And welcome back. I'm so thrilled you're back.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[D]

Stick around.

[B]

Don't. Don't leave us again for all those years.

[C]

You know, the Brits are really upset. They're like, you still stole her back.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

And they're like, are you.

[D]

We gotta go back and forth.

[B]

It was a secret plot. I'm giving Billy Porter credit. Billy Porter brought you back.

[C]

Yeah, he did. Yes, he brought me back.

[D]

You know, the one thing that I will say about doing this myth with Marisha is that I get to re. Experience what it feels like to go through this for the first time. You know, I had my time. The first time will never be the first again. And I get to, like, relive it vicariously through this one. And it's just magical. It really is magical.

[C]

It's been amazing. I feel like I've been flying for four weeks, and now I'm like, sort of coming into my body, and I'll be like, oh, this is where I work. This is where I.

[D]

This is where we work.

[C]

This is. And you, like, you work so hard, and you're just climbing the mountain, climbing the mountain, climbing the mountain. And then all of a sudden, you get to the top and you have a mountaintop experience. You're like, oh, wait, I got up this high. How did I get up here? And that's what this feels like. And I hope it inspires other artists. That hard work does pay off. And it May not come when you want it, but it's right on time. It's always right on time. And so many people who I hustled with in the city who are still here, like, my win is their win as well. Cause they've been looking at me like, girl, you did it. And we were all in the trenches together, hustling, going to Nola, Ripley, Greer, doing the audition circuit.

[B]

I used to go to your Sunday brunch.

[C]

We had Sunday brunch. We were doing shows at 54 below all the things to Make It. And I just feel like it's time for hard work to pay off in a great way.

[B]

You're exactly where you need to be.

[C]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

I'm thrilled. Thank you both.

[A]

Now here's Beth Stevens conversation with Tom Skins Scott.

[F]

Well, thank you for inviting us into the KitKat club.

[E]

Thanks for being here.

[F]

Beth, I have to ask you to go back to the beginning when you and director Rebecca Frecknell were first thinking about Cabaret. What was the vision you discussed?

[E]

Well, I have to be honest, the first time we were looking at it in London, it was during the Pandemic. So a lot of this was with a very British amount of kind of skepticism, and this is never going to happen. And almost like a dream too perfect to actually materialize. So once we sort of like. Yeah, like, it just felt like completely unimaginable in the middle of what was going on. We knew really early on we wanted it to feel like a kind of home for artists, not least because of the context in which it was created. You know, I think that through the Pandemic, a huge amount of artists in the UK especially, were sort of left out in the cold. And so this felt like an opportunity to take over a building and to sort of plant some seeds, I suppose, plant some creative seeds with new artists and think in 360, not just about the performance, not just about the performers, but who was going to be involved in the project in terms of commissions from artists and other collaborators around the building. So it was a really kind of rich foundation that sort of launched us on our way.

[F]

And now it's realized.

[E]

Yeah, twice over. Yeah, exactly.

[F]

But what was the aesthetic you were going for? Obviously, we know Cabaret takes place in weimar Berlin in 1930s, but we're on 52nd street, but I don't know where we are. We could be anywhere.

[E]

Great. Yeah. I mean, I think that it was very important for me that it felt like a space that would hold many different people's creative impulses and vision. And I Didn't want it to feel derivative. I didn't want it to feel like we were completely being taken back in time to a very specific moment. I wanted it to feel like artists, creatives, queer culture had sort of taken over a building that was part of the mainstream, I suppose, and subverted it slightly. So that does, of course, have connotations of 1920s Berlin. It also has many different connotations over the 20, 20th, 21st century. And there are touch points that I sort of leant into slightly from all sorts of different eras. And just to create something that feels dreamlike, I suppose, wanted it to sort of feel transportive and that we're being taken somewhere else and someplace else at a different time, but not necessarily completely sort of nailed down or be specific about when that is.

[F]

So this is directed by a woman you've talked a lot about, looking at this through a queer lens. Tell me how that manifested itself for you.

[E]

I think. I mean, I just. It was a complete dream working with Rebecca, as it always is, and Julia Chang as well, our choreographer, who comes from street dance. So with these two amazing women and their angle, not least on Sally's character and Sally's story and foregrounding that, and I guess I brought to the table a certain understanding about the world in which we're setting this. It just felt like a really explosive and fertile ground for sort of doing justice, I suppose, to the characters in the story. I think it is a really unique group of people on the creative team that lends really authentic voices from all sorts of different backgrounds into this melting pot. And, yeah, it's all the more rich for it.

[F]

We have to talk about the costumes, too, because you did both the scenic design and the costume design.

[C]

Yes.

[F]

Tell me how you let those complement.

[E]

Each other or not. In a way, it's sort of. There's something deliberately jarring sometimes. And I guess I sometimes work with a color palette that is, in the case of Cabaret, very much derived from the space. So it's different, slightly different here from London because of the nature of the space and the color of the space and the sort of texture and feel the space gives off. So I suppose the costumes were very much sort of extrapolations from the space in a way, sort of like manifestations of the building. But I also wanted it to feel, you know, very punchy, I suppose, and unapologetic. And I think that that is what Cabaret is. I think Cabaret as a piece demands that you treat it with a level of boldness and bravery and artistic integrity and that means sometimes ruffling a few feathers and creating something that maybe feels not your normal Cabaret, I suppose. But I think it does real justice to the people involved and the characters involved, the backgrounds they come from. And I've tried to do something with the Kit Kat costumes, especially, where each of them feel very distinct from each other and were totally derived from. From the people that come in to play those parts. And we change those costumes all the time. The swing costumes as well, they don't have replicas of the other costumes. They have their own design. So there's a whole group of people here that have their own distinct look, and I think that really makes a big difference on stage for their performance.

[F]

We have to talk about the Birthday Hat.

[E]

Yes.

[F]

So Eddie Redmayne plays the emcee, and as you said, Cabaret is often revived. It's a very beloved musical. Kander and Ebb wrote it in the mid-60s. And so we do have expectations of what Cabaret might look like, and this is not that. So tell me about what your specific vision was for that.

[E]

I think it's always interesting about iconography and musicals. I think there's something very interesting that happens where it might not be the premiere production, but at some point in a show's history, there will be an iconic moment where the music, the performance, the performers and the visuals just coalesce into this explosive thing that lasts through time. And I guess that's always my endeavor when I'm tackling a musical, is to really try and respectfully move the ghosts of the history of a production to one side and to think, what is it now for. For a new generation? And what do these images need to be? And how can we breathe new life into it without it feeling like it's derived from something else? And I suppose with Cabaret especially, I just wanted it to feel like an exuberant party, youthful party that slowly gets shut down. And so the individuality of the characters is vital. The Technicolor element is really important, but also a childishness. And I think that this is, in a way, a story of innocence and experience. You know, you sort of go into the intermission on one side, and you come out the intermission almost like you've gone through a black hole or something. You know, we're on the other side of a reveal in the first half that completely changes the. The course of the piece. And so, yeah, I wanted it to feel like. Almost like a kid's birthday party at the beginning of the show, in a way, like a kind of slightly crazy unhinged. Kind of kids birthday party. And the hat came from that. The hat came from a workshop that me and Rebecca did with Eddie right at the very beginning. And we just had it lying around. So we used it just to sort of help Eddie get into a different character. And then it just stuck. It just stayed.

[F]

But we haven't said is how immersive this production is. And when you said the Kit Kat performers, you really mean that we are among the pre show when we first come into the space?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting thing about this production is that it is actually the best of both worlds. You have an immersive element to it. You arrive, you're welcomed to the space. You're in a. In a sort of almost like you go down a kind of rabbit hole transformation. And you really do forget what's happening outside and where you are. And so you're around other audience members, you're around front of house staff who are serving everybody. And you're around performers, musicians and dancers who then take you into the main space where you sit down and you can enjoy the true production of Cabaret from your seats. So you sort of get both.

[C]

Can you tell me a little bit.

[F]

About the iconography that you've used throughout the theater?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I. The eye for the show is a logo as a theme that we sort of taken and run with. In a way, it sort of had sowed a little seed in London and me and Rebecca have just exploded it over here. I think it sort of says something of the dreamlike world, but it speaks so much of voyeurism and complicity and somehow always being observed. Like, who is being observed? Is it the performers or is it the audience? And so we celebrated that. And I like it. This sort of hits a slightly kitsch, ritualistic vibe down here. I wanted it to feel a bit like a kind of temple of sorts. You know, it does feel that way, but. But yeah. So each. Each pillar has different symbols and iconography that links with something that we found on the original plaque of the Guild Theatre that was built in 1925.

[F]

So you're really honoring the original theater.

[E]

Yeah, those little Easter eggs there that just sort of, I don't know, create an extra little bit of quest feel into the theater.

[F]

And it's such a beautiful space. But a lot of the seating wasn't here prior to this production.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, it's all pretty much new. The old mezzanine still exists. That's over there. That's about 400 people. And the old Orchestra exists to a degree, but we have built over a large proportion of the audience, pulled out the stage into the space and essentially built more auditorium on the. What was the old stage. So if you're sitting on that side, you're essentially standing, sitting where many, many people have performed over the last hundred years.

[C]

Wow.

[F]

Now we have to talk about the Cabaret tables, which is true of most productions of Cabaret, because it's part of the show with the telephones, but you're seeing some of what was there before, some of that symbol.

[E]

Yeah. I mean, I really, really love these here.

[F]

They're different from London.

[E]

They're totally different from London. But, yeah, you can sit at the front of the space, you can get a phone call from members of the company.

[B]

Really?

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Oh, my.

[E]

Who may or may not be seeing you from somewhere in the building, although you won't be able to see them. So that's like quite. You know, that's part of the fun of the. Of the eye concept, I suppose, in.

[F]

A way, some of the mystery.

[E]

But, yeah, it's just. It's just an amazing translation of the original idea. It makes so much sense in this space. It's a. It's a slightly bigger space than we have in London. Considerably bigger, actually. But the intimacy of what we want to create hasn't been affected at all here. In fact, if anything, I think the spatial relationships here are better and more conducive to the Cabaret feel. It's quite magic, actually, in here. I was concerned about the size of it. You can imagine coming from London and us thinking we're going to upscale. Anything that comes to America and gets upscaled is just like, you know, the Brits start to get nervous of. And actually, I just feel it helps to celebrate the world of the. Of the performers so much more. It transfers across the whole space. There's not a bad seat here. And even if you're sitting in the back row of the mezzanine, you're still nearer to the action on stage than you would have been normally in this space. So it's really good as an auditorium and you can feel it. You can feel the energy of the crowd really responding to it. They feel seen you feel part of it. You feel almost like you're making it happen in some way and that you're a character inside the piece and the.

[F]

Actors are playing with you. They're coming right up close and personal and you can really feel that energy both ways.

[E]

I just think it's a reciprocal relationship, you know, I think that it's something we don't often get an opportunity to talk much about because of the way our spaces are laid out. But really, you know, this work is a. Is a backwards and forwards with the audience. It has to be a communication, it has to be a two way flow. And sometimes in certain theaters it only goes one way. And whereas here, everybody on stage gets an immediate sense of what the atmosphere is from the crowd and you know, the audience is just, as I say, is an essential component part of this production.

[F]

And it feels like an event, right?

[E]

Yeah. And I really. That's the thing that I'm really big on. I want a lot of my work to feel like it sort of touches all your senses and to feel like you are part of something that is as much about the people sitting next to you as the performers on stage. And it's not just about this, but it's about who we are together and what it means for us to sit next to each other and experience work like this.

[A]

You can grab your tickets to Cabaret over at Broadway.

[D]

Com.

[A]

Until next time, I'm Tamsen Fadal and this is the Broadway show Uncut.