The Broadway Show: Uncut

Episode: Willkommen! Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace in 'Cabaret'

Date: August 27, 2025
Host(s): Tamsen Fadal, Paul Wontorek
Guests: Billy Porter (MC), Marisha Wallace (Sally Bowles), Tom Scutt (Set/Costume Designer)

Episode Overview

This episode of "The Broadway Show: Uncut" dives into the immersive Broadway revival of Cabaret, starring Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace. The conversation explores the power of casting Black leads in a traditionally white musical, the meaning and impact of reinterpretation, and the experience of telling richer, more inclusive stories on stage. Later, Tony-winning designer Tom Scutt discusses the artistic vision and immersive set that define this production, emphasizing its contemporary resonance and the collaborative, queer-driven creative process.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reinterpreting Cabaret Through New Lenses (00:28 – 07:19)

• Unique Casting & Partnership:
  • Billy Porter and Marisha Wallace discuss joining Cabaret as an intentionally paired duo.
  • Porter reveals he first wanted to play the MC nearly 30 years ago but was “denied even the audition” and reflects on the timing:

    "God's delay is not denial. You know, had I done this role when I thought I should have been able to, it wouldn’t be the same right now, you know, with two black people, three black people in these roles for the first time in a commercial production." (00:53, Billy Porter)

  • The significance of three Black leads is highlighted as “profound and important... particularly with the parallels of what's going on in American history.” (00:53, Billy Porter)
• Marisha’s Journey & Agency:
  • Wallace describes her trajectory from Broadway to London stardom, notably her roles that “weren't traditionally cast with women of color.”
  • She shares how she actively shaped the Sally Bowles casting process:

    "I was seeing all the signs for Cabaret, and I was like, wait a minute. Sally Bowles hasn't had the Marisha Wallace treatment yet. ... I wanted to dive into the history of what it would mean to be Black in 1930s Nazi Germany as a performer." (02:51, Marisha Wallace)

  • She reached out to Porter directly, noting a shared interest in addressing the overlooked history of Black people in pre-war Germany.

2. Historical Resonance & Character Depth (05:00 – 12:52)

• Research & Storytelling:
  • Porter and Wallace both bring up the book Destined to Witness: Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany as foundational to their approach, using it to demonstrate the historical truth: “We were there.” (05:04, Billy Porter & Marisha Wallace)
  • Wallace connects their efforts to broader lessons for audiences:

    “If everyone knew that this was also their history, could we possibly try to not let it happen again?” (02:51, Marisha Wallace)

• Expanded Emotional Range:
  • The production allows both actors to portray complex, fully realized humans, breaking past stereotypical roles:

    "The opportunity to ... play three dimensional human beings and not archetypes or stereotypes is a gift." (13:18, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace notes the significance of simply getting to be a complicated woman on a Broadway stage:

    "...to be this character who can go through a full arc where you're the center of the narrative—that's so wild even to think in 2025..." (14:35, Marisha Wallace)

3. The Power of Reinterpretation (06:03 – 08:13)

• Classics and Continuous Reimagining:
  • Porter and Wallace draw parallels to Shakespeare as a classic that is constantly re-set in new contexts without controversy, arguing this should be embraced for musical theater:

    "It's the same picture. It’s just got a different filter on it." (07:19, Marisha Wallace)

  • They both stress that “classic” works remain relevant when seen through the “human stories” at their core.
• Specific Scenes and Their Impact with Black Leads:
  • Porter on Tomorrow Belongs to Me:

    "I can't assimilate. So I show up at the end in my cornrows, and the intention for my character is I've run long enough. I'm not running no more. ... My intention is rage." (08:23–11:15, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace on Sally’s arc:

    "To work at this club is her survival. And that hits different. ... It's the same lines. They just hit so differently." (12:20, Marisha Wallace)

4. Community, Diversity & Company Culture (16:14 – 19:36)

• Company Diversity:
  • Both praise the cast and director Rebecca Frecknall for treating each ensemble member as an individual character.

    "Every character in this play has a name. Nobody is man, one girl, one. ... So that when the time comes where everyone is forced to assimilate, it's that much more devastating to watch." (17:46, Billy Porter)

  • The cast is notably diverse in race, gender identity, and body type, including nonbinary dressing rooms.

    "It's such a colorful cast in all types of diversity...everyone feels safe. ... There's a room for the 'them, theys.'" (18:38–19:21, Marisha Wallace & Billy Porter)

5. Space, Scale & Physical Experience (15:49 – 16:53)

• Differences Between Broadway & London:
  • Wallace jokes about running across the massive Broadway stage and “losing weight in two weeks.”
  • Porter appreciates the more comfortable, accessible Broadway stage:

    "Thank you for the padded stairs. ... In London, I come up from the trap five times, and it was like a crawl space. ... I didn't realize how hard that was on my body until I came over here." (16:27, Billy Porter)

6. Enjoying the Spotlight & Reflections on the Journey (19:36 – 22:15)

• Visibility:
  • Both marvel at seeing their names above the title on posters and in Shubert Alley.
  • Porter delights in reliving the Broadway experience through Wallace:

    "I get to re-experience what it feels like to go through this for the first time...it's just magical." (20:35, Billy Porter)

  • Wallace hopes her journey inspires artists:

    "It may not come when you want it, but it's right on time. ... My win is their win." (21:19, Marisha Wallace)

Tom Scutt Interview: Immersive Design & Queer Vision (22:23 – 36:28)

1. Creating the Kit Kat Club: Artistic Approach (22:27 – 25:16)

• Pandemic Beginnings:
  • The UK production began as a "dream too perfect to actually materialize" during lockdown—driven by the need to nurture artists and rebuild community.
• A Home for Artists:
  • The Kit Kat Club is envisioned as a collaboratively subversive, queer-positive space:

    "I wanted it to feel like artists, creatives, queer culture had sort of taken over a building that was part of the mainstream, I suppose, and subverted it slightly." (24:02, Tom Scutt)

2. Costumes, Iconography, and Immersive Atmosphere (26:11 – 32:14)

• Costume & Set Philosophy:
  • Scutt’s costume designs reflect the space, the cast, and individuality; each Kit Kat Club member’s look is tailored, with no generic swing costumes.

    "Each of them feel very distinct from each other and were totally derived from the people that come in to play those parts..." (26:18, Tom Scutt)

  • The design plays against traditional expectations, seeking "boldness and bravery and artistic integrity."
• Birthday Hat Origin & Visual Metaphors:
  • The iconic onset "Birthday Hat" started as a prop for Eddie Redmayne in early workshops and stuck, symbolizing the show's shift from childish exuberance to darkness.
• Immersive Audience Experience:
  • Pre-show activity blurs line between performer and audience; the design generates a "rabbit hole transformation" upon entry.
  • Innovative features include Cabaret tables with interactive phone calls, further playing into the “eye” of the voyeuristic set and “temple” vibe.

    "It speaks so much of voyeurism and complicity and somehow always being observed. Like, who is being observed? Is it the performers or is it the audience?" (31:15, Tom Scutt)

3. Respecting Theater History & Spatial Innovation (32:25 – 35:58)

• Honoring the Past:
  • Subtle references to the Guild Theatre’s 100-year legacy appear in the architecture and iconography.
• Space & Scale:
  • While the Broadway Kit Kat Club is much bigger than London’s, the design "hasn’t affected intimacy"; audiences actually feel closer:

    "If anything, I think the spatial relationships here are better ... and even if you're sitting in the back row ... you're still nearer to the action on stage than you would have been normally." (33:48, Tom Scutt)

4. Shared Ownership & Event Experience (36:00 – 36:28)

• Audience as Participant:
  • Scutt stresses the essential two-way relationship between performers and audience; the event is as much about community as art:

    "It's not just about this, but it's about who we are together and what it means for us to sit next to each other and experience work like this." (36:00, Tom Scutt)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Billy Porter, on timing and opportunity:

  "God's delay is not denial." (00:53)

• Marisha Wallace, on representation:

  "Sally Bowles hasn't had the Marisha Wallace treatment yet... I wanted to dive into the history of what it would mean to be Black in 1930s Nazi Germany as a performer." (02:51)

• On classics and evolution:

  "Classics... don't exist in a vacuum. They exist to be reinterpreted inside of our humanity." (06:48, Billy Porter)

• On ensemble diversity and impact:

  "Every character in this play has a name. ... So that when the time comes where everyone is forced to assimilate, it's that much more devastating..." (17:46, Billy Porter)

• Tom Scutt, on set aesthetic:

  "I wanted it to feel like artists, creatives, queer culture had sort of taken over a building that was part of the mainstream, I suppose, and subverted it slightly." (24:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – Interview with Billy Porter & Marisha Wallace begins
• 02:51 – Wallace discusses her vision for Sally Bowles and representation
• 05:03 – The influence of Destined to Witness and Black history in Germany
• 08:23 – Powerful moments in the show with Black leads
• 13:18 – Playing multidimensional, non-stereotypical roles
• 16:02 – Comparing Broadway and London physical productions
• 17:29 – Company diversity and representation
• 19:36 – Reflections on visibility, posters, and returning to Broadway
• 22:23 – Tom Scutt interview: designing the immersive Kit Kat Club
• 24:02 – Creating a queer, subversive, artist-driven space
• 26:11 – Costume and scenic design details
• 31:15 – Iconography of “the eye” and building history into the set
• 33:48 – Audience proximity and intimacy on Broadway
• 36:00 – Shared experience and the event nature of this Cabaret

Final Notes

This episode offers a layered, candid look at the making of Broadway’s most immersive Cabaret yet—how its Black lead actors and queer creative team wield history, personal journeys, and bold design to re-charge a classic for today’s stage and audience. Both the production and its process are defined by intentionality, inclusivity, and a belief in theater as a constantly evolving, community-rooted art form.