The Brothers Ortiz – Bonus Episode
An Interview with Prison Gang Expert, Mike Tapia
Released: January 28, 2026
Produced by Campside Media & iHeart Podcasts
Episode Overview
This bonus episode of The Brothers Ortiz sits down with Dr. Mike Tapia, associate professor of criminal justice at Texas A&M Commerce and longstanding expert on prison gangs in Texas. The conversation unpacks the historical roots, evolving structures, and lived realities of Texas prison gangs—such as Puro Tango Blast—to put the life (and death) of Larry Ortiz into broader context. Tapia brings depth to the mythologized concept of the “shot caller” and explores why stories of siblings on opposite sides of the law, like Gabe and Larry Ortiz, are more familiar than we might imagine.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Good Brother/Bad Brother Dynamic
[04:14]
- Dr. Tapia reflects on how the story of Larry and Gabe Ortiz fits into a common Texas narrative—siblings in the same family who end up on drastically different paths.
- Tapia: “I wasn't [surprised]. There are many such tales... especially when you study history. There are so many things that come out of the woodwork...a lot of them are strikingly similar to this, this story here.”
- He describes the “black sheep” trope in Mexican American working-class families, shaped as much by circumstances and proximity to crime as by personal choice.
- Noted factors: Family dynamics, societal access to “the criminal element,” and proximity to street or prison culture.
2. Birth and Evolution of Texas Prison Gangs
[06:03]
- Origins: Prison gangs took root in the early 1980s. Geography, especially city of origin, was key to identity.
- Tapia: “Where are you from? Is so fundamental and important to the social sphere in prison...guys click up on that basis, and they go to war against each other for meager resources...It’s a microcosm of the outside world.”
- Turnkey System: Texas prisons historically relied on inmates policing themselves, giving rise to strong leaders.
- Tapia: “It’s a crappy job to be a correctional officer...one way to control populations in prison is to let them police themselves. And sort of a social Darwinism kicks in.”
- This was later outlawed by the Texas Supreme Court—but elements persist.
- Racial Dynamics: Race remains a fundamental, if unofficial, organizing principle for gang alignments and protection.
- Tapia: “The Texas Supreme Court...ruled that it's illegal to group inmates on the basis of race. But...that will never go away...Probably is one of the primary reasons that prison gangs did form.”
3. Gangs, Hierarchies, and The “Tango” Structure
[10:25 & 12:00]
- City Centers and Major Gangs:
- Texas Syndicate – Austin/Houston
- Mexican Mafia – San Antonio
- Barrio Azteca – El Paso
- Other examples: “the 45s” from Laredo
- Hierarchies: Prison gangs (“security threat groups”) are at the top, followed by “tangos”—younger, street-level groups that sometimes move up.
- Tapia: “The nucleus is some Texas city...there is a hierarchy...prison gangs at the top...those...sympathetic to the cause...do the dirt...with the hope that, you know, they would get selected for full-on membership at some point...”
- Tango Blast: Emerged as a dominant force by offering looser membership and promise of protection with less rigid, lifelong commitment.
4. The Role of the Shot Caller: “El Sia” or “Pod Dog”
[14:32–16:17]
- Definition: The sia, or “pod dog," acts as a gang’s internal leader, coordinating activities and discipline.
- Tapia: “Everything a shot caller does pretty much racks up a lot of the profits from drug sales, coordinates...discipline...The gangs in incarceral settings are real quick to punish their own for transgressions...disiplina...if you don’t have enough cora...there’s going to be consequences.”
- Larry’s Place: Larry likely held such a role—responsible for enforcing gang discipline and profit sharing.
5. Comparing Tango Blast to Other Gangs
[16:17]
- Not “Blood In, Blood Out”: Unlike groups like the Aryan Brotherhood or Texas Syndicate, membership in Tango Blast is not necessarily lifelong.
- Tapia: “It was designed from the inception as being very loose. You know, it was meant to be like, come in here, we're your protection society while you're here. When it's time for you to bounce out of here, you go back to your regular life.”
- Evolution has made Tango Blast more competitive—but also means members can, and do, age out or choose normal civilian life after release.
6. Are Tangos Good or Bad for the Prison System?
[22:51]
- Mixed Perspectives: Law enforcement now sees Tango Blast as a primary threat, but Tapia emphasizes its popularity and structural role in the prison ecosystem.
- Tapia: “DPS puts out a security threat report...Tango Blast...super high on the threat list. They’ve pushed out the old guard...It’s probably fair to say that Tango is the new game in town for Texas criminals.”
- Aging Leadership: Many high-ranking members migrate in and out of prison, “never leaving that life.”
7. Gang Culture and Copycatting
[24:11]
- Larry’s Youth: Started with pretend gangs after watching “South Central”; eventually gravitated toward real (or imitation) Crip affiliations.
- National Spread & Copycatting: Gang names and lore are widely adopted, often disconnected from original roots.
- Tapia: “Gang culture had sort of swept the nation...if America's not investing in its inner cities...kids are going to fill in the gaps...They get creative with it...the answer is always somewhere in the middle.”
- Studies show many Midwestern and other small-town gangs claim big city affiliations without direct ties.
8. How Are Gangs Changing Today?
[27:30–32:00]
- Declining Street Presence: Technology is changing how gangs operate—social media “gangbangers” are more common than turf-claiming corner crews.
- Tapia: “Gangs of old used to posture...on street corners...Law enforcement also cracked down...Gang common sense also evolved to adhere to that...now we have to do things a little smarter, stay behind doors, use technology.”
- More About Money, Less About Turf: “The only color that matters here is green.”
- Racial Lines Blurring: Increasing numbers of multi-racial and ethnically mixed members.
- Tapia: “It has become a bit post-racial...they’re kids just like you and I were, and they’re...stupid too, you know, but they do some dumb things still.”
9. Family Blind Spots
[35:31]
- Sean Flynn notes Gabe Ortiz’s total ignorance of his brother’s post-prison criminal involvement despite his job as a gang investigator.
- Flynn: “It’s interesting what you will overlook in your own family, I guess.”
- Tapia: “The term gang member is such a misunderstood and misconstrued...Gang members have sort of adopted a posturing...to disguise...their affiliation.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the Persistence of Gang Structures:
“It’s almost impossible to diminish it or make it obsolete. Just because of the very nature of being locked up with other individuals. Some strong leader will emerge.”
— Mike Tapia [08:51] -
On Prison Gangs and Race:
“I would even say that [race] probably is one of the primary reasons that prison gangs did form also, is for self protection and preservation, for racial conflict reasons.”
— Mike Tapia [09:37] -
On Tango Blast’s Growth:
“They are probably Houston’s primary prison gang. They’ve since...pushed out the old guard...it’s probably fair to say that Tango is the new game in town for Texas criminals.”
— Mike Tapia [23:20] -
On Gangs Evolving Beyond Race:
“It has become a bit post-racial...in Houston your kid’s claiming tango and he’s half black, he’s half white because you live in Houston and that’s where he got incarcerated when he stole that car with his friends.”
— Mike Tapia [31:33] -
On the Difficulty of Spotting Gangs in Family:
“Gang members have sort of adopted a posturing...to disguise...their affiliation. That’s also a progression of gang life…if law enforcement is going to key in on those signifiers, then you start to disguise them.”
— Mike Tapia [36:11]
Timeline of Major Segments
| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 02:31 | Introduction to Larry Ortiz’s life and interview setup | | 03:19 | Dr. Mike Tapia’s background and research focus | | 04:14 | The “good brother/bad brother” phenomenon | | 06:03 | Early history and formation of Texas prison gangs | | 10:25 | Organizational structure: Texas city gangs and hierarchy | | 14:32 | Role and impact of the sia (“shot caller”/pod dog) | | 16:17 | Unique aspects of Tango Blast, vs. other gangs | | 22:51 | Are Tangos good or bad for the system? Law enforcement view | | 24:11 | National gang culture and the phenomenon of copycatting | | 27:30 | Technological and societal change—new face of gangs | | 35:31 | Family denial and camouflage in gang culture | | 38:02 | Conclusion and references to Dr. Tapia’s published work |
Episode Tone & Approach
The conversation is candid yet highly informative. Dr. Tapia avoids moralizing, instead offering a clear-eyed sociological perspective grounded in evidence and sympathy for the underlying social forces at work. He’s academic, but not intimidating; practical, but not sensational. Host Sean Flynn focuses on untangling myth from reality, especially as it applies to Larry Ortiz’s trajectory.
For Further Reading
Dr. Mike Tapia has published several books relevant to these topics:
- Gangs of the El Paso, Juarez Borderland
- Barrio Gangs of San Antonio, Texas
This episode provides valuable context for the larger story of The Brothers Ortiz, while reframing common perceptions about Texas gang life, loyalty, change, and the hidden complexities behind every “good brother/bad brother” story.