The Johnny Chang Interview (EP 87)

Summary

The Bryce Crawford Podcast – EP 87: The Johnny Chang Interview

Date: March 17, 2025
Host: Bryce Crawford
Guest: Johnny Chang (Minister, Online Church Leader)

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and spiritually charged episode, Bryce Crawford welcomes Johnny Chang—a minister with a testimony marked by redemption and transformation. Forgoing the usual lengthy background story, the duo dives straight into impactful discussions on Christian identity, overcoming sin, reading Scripture, dealing with depression, and practical discipleship. Listeners are treated to Johnny’s raw honesty, precise scriptural insight, and lived wisdom about walking faithfully with Christ after a dark past, all while maintaining humility. The conversation flows like a pastoral mentorship, focusing heavily on grace, peace, and the nuances of true Christian living versus lukewarm religiosity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Johnny Chang’s Testimony: Brief but Powerful

• [01:50] Johnny’s Upbringing:
  Grew up in a challenging environment (Section 8 housing, atheist father, Buddhist mother, physical abuse).
• [02:22] Gang & Incarceration:
  Joined a gang at age 12; in prison from 12 to 25. Became a Muslim inside, reading the Quran and Bible deeply.
• [03:42] Out of Prison, Still Empty:
  Achieved material “success,” but remained empty and attempted suicide three times.
• [05:00] Encounter with Christian Love:
  Profound shift after experiencing non-judgmental, gospel-centered love at a church, leading to a revelation of identity in Christ.
• [06:08] "Sin as Identity":
  “Sin was an identity, not an action…You're born as a sinner through Adam, and that's why you keep messing up. But your new identity is in Christ.” – Johnny [05:00]

2. Leaving Islam & Spiritual Emptiness

• [06:32] Why Johnny Left Islam:
  • In prison, sincere questions were discouraged.
  • Despite religious devotion, still felt emotional emptiness.
  • “There’s something inside of me that is like God sized hole and I just can't fill it.” – Johnny [07:23]
• Bryce’s Relatability:
  Shared his own past struggles with suicide and religious seeking.

3. Breaking Sin Strongholds & The Power of Belief

• [08:36] On Breaking Sin Cycles:
  • Quoted John 16:9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17.
  • Main barrier: Trusting personal thoughts over God’s Word.
  • “If you're not in your Word, you're in your feelings...That is literally demonic doctrine.” – Johnny [10:16]
• [09:57] Practical Steps:
  • Read the Bible daily to counteract trusting fleeting emotions or condemnation.
  • Surface-level fixes aren’t enough; root issue is lack of trust in scripture.

4. Motivation & Methods for Bible Reading

• [11:40] Encouraging Consistency:
  • Avoid legalistic expectations (e.g., “Read Bible in a Year” plans which lead to guilt).
  • “I read until I get sleepy…whether it’s ten verses or a hundred chapters.” – Johnny [12:13]
  • Read “to accept, not to understand”—let scripture wash over you, don't force comprehension.
  • “If you hang around a barber shop long enough, you're going to get a haircut. If you read your Bible enough, you will start to…the Bible will start to bleed into you.” – Johnny [13:41]

5. Can Christians Be Depressed?

• [14:21] Biblically, Yes/No?
  • “If you’re a true Christian and you’re truly in your Word, you’re not going to be depressed. You're always going to be peaceful…” – Johnny [15:35]
  • Depression seen as a byproduct of not renewing your mind with scripture (2 Corinthians 10:5).
  • The key is not feelings but standing on the unchanging Word.
  • The Word, not feelings, is the chief discerner (Hebrews 4:12).

6. Discerning Thoughts, Conviction vs. Condemnation

• [17:00, 19:08] Practical Discernment:
  • “Our feelings deceive us. There is no condemnation in God.”
  • Conviction from God always positive; condemnation negative, spiraling.
  • Discernment comes from knowledge of scripture, not personal feelings.

7. Grace, Identity, and Not Abusing the Gospel

• [19:42] Living in Grace:
  • “Falling seven times” doesn’t legitimize willful sin; it recognizes the reality of the flesh (Romans 7:15).
  • Real error isn't in stumbling, but in staying down, or misusing grace by refusing the identity Christ gives.
  • “True abuse of grace is…continuously say[ing], ‘No, I'm a sinner though.’” – Johnny [21:54]
  • Grace deepens relationship, not legalistic striving: “If you knew you were supposed to burn in hell…and then you hear you’re righteous…why wouldn’t you love him so much?” – Johnny [23:19]

8. Maintaining Humility Without Losing Boldness

• [26:55] Paul’s Example:
  • “I am the chief of sinners…It’s a heart posture thing.” – Johnny [27:12]
  • Recognizing who you are without Jesus keeps pride at bay even when embracing your new identity.
  • Satan’s tactics include puffing you up only to facilitate a harder fall.

9. Overthinking vs. Deep Thinking

• [31:03] Practical Framework
  • Overthinking = always leads to negativity; deep thinking = empathetic and positive.
  • Gauge it: If thoughts spiral to fear/loneliness, you’re overthinking—draw the line immediately.
  • “Once you sit there…if you start to feel that fear, condemnation, frustration…oh, I've entered overthinking. I need to stop.” – Johnny [33:09]

10. Moving in Peace, Not Frustration

• [39:31]
  • Don’t take ownership of negative thoughts/feelings.
  • “Someone throws in a can of beans in your cart, you take it out. Satan does that with thoughts; don’t accept them as yours.” – Johnny [40:44]
  • Peace comes from rejecting thoughts not rooted in truth, and deeply considering consequences.

11. Dealing with Fear and Anxiety

• [42:27] Bryce’s Airplane Anxiety Example:
  • Recognize that “not every thought is yours; Satan disguises fear as logic or news.”
  • “God doesn’t give us a spirit of confusion or fear…if it leads to fear or death, it’s not from God.” – Johnny [44:14]

12. Winning the Morning & Practicing Gratitude

• [48:04] Starting Your Day Right:
  • “Set your scale to zero.” Focus on gratitude every morning, remember your need for Jesus.
  • Story from missionary work in Liberia: true gratitude is heart posture, not dependent on external circumstances.

13. Avoiding Burnout as a Christian Leader

• [54:05] Pouring Into Others:
  • “Every single day I’m out of prison, it gives me a heart to be like…I’m only here because of my pastor…Why wouldn’t I reciprocate it to people?” – Johnny [54:15]
  • Ministry isn’t transactional; it’s a privilege.

14. Freedom from Sin

• [58:13] John 8: Knowing the Truth
  • “Free from sin” = both not under its power and not in bondage to condemnation.
  • “He doesn’t say, it’s a deposit, do better…He literally says, It is finished.” – Johnny [60:37]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scripture Over Feelings:
  “If you're not in your Word, you're in your feelings…That is literally demonic doctrine.” – Johnny [10:16]

• On Grace:
  “True abuse of grace is…continuously say[ing], ‘No, I'm a sinner though.’” – Johnny [21:54]

• On Identity & Humility:
  “My perfection is not from me. If you strip Jesus away from Johnny Chang, bro, I could just murder people straight up.” – Johnny [28:14]

• On Moving in Peace:
  “Satan drops things inside of us, and we're like, oh, yeah, I want to eat beans…We do that with our shopping carts, but we don't do that with our minds.” – Johnny [40:44]

• On Ministry as Privilege:
  “I used to think people were weird...watching a plant grow…Now I understand…seeing someone freed is a currency that is priceless.” – Johnny [56:39]

• On Freedom from Sin:
  “He doesn’t say, it’s a deposit, do better…He literally says, It is finished.” – Johnny [60:37]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:50] – Johnny summarizes his story/testimony
• [03:42] – Out of prison, struggling with emptiness despite material gain
• [05:00] – Life-changing encounter at a church
• [06:32] – Leaving Islam, why spiritual structure alone wasn’t enough
• [08:36] – How to break a sin stronghold
• [11:40] – Overcoming lack of motivation to read the Bible
• [14:21] – Can a Christian be depressed?
• [17:00] – Discernment: condemnation vs. conviction
• [19:42] – Not abusing grace, “falling seven times”
• [26:55] – Avoiding spiritual pride while embracing Christian identity
• [31:03] – Overcoming overthinking
• [39:31] – Moving in peace, not in anger or frustration
• [42:27] – Coping with anxiety and external fear (e.g., plane phobia)
• [48:04] – “Winning the morning”; daily gratitude
• [54:05] – Avoiding burnout in ministry
• [58:13] – What it means to be free from sin

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Episode Tone

The conversation is honest, raw, and peppered with both scripture and practical real-life wisdom. Johnny is transparent about his past and current struggles, but overflows with gratitude and humility, constantly redirecting all credit to Christ. Bryce asks questions that many modern believers (especially younger Christians) wrestle with, creating a relatable and heartfelt dialogue. The tone is both challenging and uplifting, offering hope and actionable steps.

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For Listeners

This episode is a deep dive into not just Christian theology but the practicalities of life as a transformed believer. Johnny’s story and insights make it especially valuable for anyone wrestling with identity, condemnation, striving, and spiritual routines. The perspectives shared here cut through performance-based Christianity and legalism, pointing listeners to a freedom and peace that are found only in relationship with Christ.

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Recommended Listen if:

• You’re struggling with shame, religious legalism, burnout, or “not feeling enough.”
• You want to understand Christian identity, grace, and how to practically walk in victory.
• You’re ready for more than surface-level Christian talking points.

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Transcript

[A]

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Bryce Crawford Podcast. I'm Bryson. Today I have an awesome guest on Recently Became Friends, Johnny Chang. Johnny, how are you doing, bro?

[B]

Appreciate you. My pleasure.

[A]

Do you think, do you go by, like, I know some people call you pastor because you, like, do, like, an online church. Do you, like, do you call yourself pastor or.

[B]

I go by minister.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Minister more than anything or just Johnny.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

I'm not too big on the labels.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, that was actually something I wanted to talk to you about later. Yeah, I'm super excited about this. I, I, My favorite thing that I admire about you is your knowledge on the Word. It's just so crazy. Like, you know, I, I feel like that's such a beautiful compliment and such a beautiful thing to, to have. Like, the way that you quote scripture and the way that you remember it on your heart, it's like some, every time you get asked a question, it's the first thing to come off your tongue. So I highly respect that.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And I also highly respect the work that God has done in your life. I mean, it's, it's so crazy how you can hear something about someone and like, like when you, when, whenever I hear your story.

[C]

Right.

[A]

When I see videos and things like that. The Johnny that I know is not that old Johnny.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's hard for me to imagine what your life was like before, you know, and so I, I just really admire your, your, your heart, your character, and your dedication to scripture. So I appreciate you.

[C]

Thank you, bro. You.

[A]

Yeah, man. I bet a lot of times when you do interviews, do you get asked to, like, share your story a lot?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's usually what it is. You can't have a testimony without the test, right? So. Yeah, definitely.

[A]

Yeah. I'll let you kind of summarize that quickly because I want this to be different. I want us to just like, ask questions about the Bible and stuff like that, because I think there's, there's a lot of value to that, but I don't want to undermine what God's done in your life. So if you had to briefly summarize how God encountered you, what your life looked like before and afterwards, what would you.

[B]

Yeah, so I grew up in section 8 project housing on the east side of LA. And my, my father was, like, an atheist. My mother was a Buddhist, like a hardcore Daoist Buddhist. And my dad was an alcoholic and didn't believe in any, you know, he didn't really have like, good morals. He was beat as a kid, so he kind of passed that generational trauma onto me and my brother. So he beat me, he beat my mother, he beat my brother. And so I kind of took to the streets because I like, I rather stay out and chill than come home and get beat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So at the age of 12, I joined a hood, a gang out here in San Gabriel Valley. And like three months into that, I ended up going to prison. It's called California Youth Authority. So I was 12 years old. I went from 12 to 25. Essentially I was locked up and it was incarcerated. And you know, it was, it was during that time that I became actually a Muslim. In, in, in prison.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Yeah. So I was a Sunni, I was studying under like an imam. He was one of my, his whole family essentially was Sunni, Sunni Muslim.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, I read the Quran front to back three times. I read the Bible at that time, front to back two times. And he was telling me that we have to pull from the book that came before us, which is the Bible. So there's Abraham, there's Cain, Kabril, and you know, all these different people also in the Quran. So yeah, I was, you know, got my ged, you know, was trying to work on myself mentally, emotionally, physically. But the one thing that I kept feeling was like emptiness inside of my heart. No matter what I did, I was just happy, sad all the time. This crazy roller coaster. So I got super blasted. You know, most people who are tatted down, it's because, at least in my experience is because we feel nothing except for pain. So like I would rather feel something than nothing even if it was pain.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I went from that to then coming out, being released, tried to fly straight and recognize that I couldn't. I was a two strike felon in California for a violent crime. I was in there for a shooting, essentially two counts of assault with deadly weapons. So I was like, all right, I, I genuinely like, I'm trying, I'm applying to all these places. I'm, there's no love being shown. I was like, man, effort, you know, I'm gonna go back to my, my neighborhood. I got plugged in, I started making 30, $40,000 a month selling drugs basically. And even then, you know, I had the cars, I had the women, I had the penthouse. I had all the materials that I had, but still emptiness inside of my heart. And that's when I really felt miserable. I, I, I think that was worse than me being in prison because when you're in prison, you still have some kind of hope. If I get out, I'm gonna be happy. You know, I came about the PJs, the projects, I'm gonna make money, you know, And I reached all of that, and I was still empty.

[C]

Dang.

[B]

So I was like, dang, this is horrible. And it was during that time that I attempted suicide three different occasions. And thank God, God held on to me, you know, And a series of events happened. Like, long story short, my mom, she kind of. Her car broke down and she had me take her to the church. I went to the church, we broke bread. You know, God really uses food like he did with, you know, Peter and all that. So he placed it in the pastor's heart that day to make black bean noodles, which is my favorite. You know, till this day, it's my favorite food. And he opened up with, not in a judgmental way, but a very loving way. And that's the first time I truly felt loved. I thought my homies loved me, and they do, but it was a humanistic love. And he truly loved me with the heart of God through the gospel. And he was explaining to me how sin was an identity, not an action. You can't change yourself. Being Chinese is the same as you can't stop sinning, right? You're born as a sinner through Adam, and that's why you keep messing up. But you're trying to. He's like, imagine looking in the mirror and saying, today I'm not going to be Chinese or I'm going to be less Chinese. It's impossible. So you're normal. And that's the first time I heard, you know, having a YA number, a California CDC number to. To then going from criminal to you're normal. And then, you know, I just felt the love. And he taught about Hebrews, 10, 14, all these different scriptures, essentially telling me that it was an identity. And my new identity is in Christ. And if God, who holds the kingdom, who holds the keys to the kingdom, tells you that you're righteous and perfect, then you should believe that above your thoughts.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And I trusted that. And here we are today.

[C]

Dang. Yeah.

[A]

Insane. I mean, praise God. I didn't even know that about. About you being Muslim for, like, a time period from what I know, like, for. For, like, people that are raised Muslim, at least I think there's an average, like, it takes a Muslim seven years to leave Islam.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Was. What was your deciding factor of, like, leaving that?

[B]

Essentially, there was just a lot of, like, controversial stuff, you know, that I won't get too into, you know, out of respect for them. But I, I was like, okay, so we're in prison for a set amount of rules. And then there's, there's the prophet who's doing certain things that I, I didn't find justified, number one. And then when I questioned out of a good heart, I wanted to understand. They were basically telling me, you shouldn't question.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that's number one. Number two, the emptiness. No matter what. I was praying five times a day. You know, I was, I was physically fit. You know, I was reading. I was everything. I had my, I got my ged, anger management counseling, all because I was a Muslim and I was bettering my mind, but there was still that emptiness inside of my heart.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, yo, it doesn't matter what I do, you know, I'm, I'm always going to feel this happy sats and repent, up and down lifestyle.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's the thing that I recognized was there's something inside of me that is like God sized hole and I just can't fill it. And I thought I could do it with, you know, with, with, with the Quran and with being a Muslim.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But it didn't fill my heart.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Respectfully, no, no, I understand that I could right before. So I, I tried to take my life when I was 17 and like a couple months before that. I always heard, well, if you got some religious structure in your life, then, you know, you'll be good, you'll be good. And it just like, I, so I kind of like feel you for, for a sense and like, it just doesn't work. It just does not work. Thanks for sharing that. I know you get to share that a lot and it's always encouraging to hear. I want to shift gears to a lot of questions that I have and I want to hear your perspectives and, and things like that. I think, I think my first question would be, yeah, I hear, I hear it a lot. I hear the sin being an identity thing. But then I, but then I think of like, like I literally just got a phone call last night from a friend. He's like, I literally am struggling with this certain sin habit or this addiction, this stronghold. How does someone break a sin stronghold in their life?

[B]

So if you look at The Bible, John 16, verse 9 tells us of sin because they believe not unto me. So a lot of people know about Jesus, the demons know about Jesus. But truly believing in someone is trusting what they say above what think.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So let's Say, for example, you know, you go out and, you know, I'll use you as an example. You go out and. And you're one at one of these Christian events, but then it shifts to you going to a club and then a lady hugs you and you got makeup on your shirt and you come home smelling like cigarettes and alcohol and you got, you know what I mean, this makeup. If your girl loves you, she's obviously going to have her thoughts like, yo, why does Bryce have makeup on his shirt? Why does he smell like he's been to a club? If she trusts you, she would take what your word says above her thoughts. Do you understand? And above the situation.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Likewise, Jesus is telling us in 2nd Corinthians 5:17 that we're new creatures, all the old ways have passed. The issue is we trust our thoughts above that word.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So the stronghold comes from not trusting the word of God above your thoughts. So the way that I explain it is your thoughts influence the way you feel, and the way you feel influences behavior. People don't just wake up in sin. So if I have a thought, like, let's say, a lustful thought, then it's going to bleed into me and give me lustful feelings, and then the action is just a byproduct of that thought. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[B]

A lot of people think like, oh, you know, I have to cut it at, you know, bounce with the eyes at the action. They're not recognizing that not only is sin an identity, it's trusting your thoughts above the word of God. So if you want to break free from every stronghold, it's very simple, actually. You have to get in your word. Because if you're not in your word, you're in your feelings. And the Bible tells us in Jeremiah 17, 9, all of our heart is deceitful, above all things, desperately wicked. Who can know it? That means our hearts will deceive us. One day we'll be happy, next day we'll be sad. Right. So if we trust that, that's how we're going to live. Happy, sad, happy, sad, all the way up and down. And this world teaches you that, right? Trust your heart. Follow your heart. Trust you know, your thoughts. Believe in yourself. That is literally demonic doctrine. It is the byproduct of being sad and empty.

[C]

Right?

[B]

The byproduct of that is being sad and empty. So, yeah, I don't tell people that, you know, that to stop this or, you know, cut all these things out. Of course you should be doing those Things, but that's very surface level. We have to get to the root issue of I'm trusting myself, even as a Christian, as a Catholic, as a Jew, whatever. Even if I trust my thoughts, thoughts that are different from God. Isaiah 55, 7 and 8 tells us my thoughts are not your thoughts.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Then I'm going to live different from God and I'm not going to live a godly lifestyle. It's proof.

[A]

So, yeah, yeah, dang. So what I guess like, I guess like something that I have a hard time thinking sometimes is like. And even I, I have a hard time sometimes for myself is, is that, that trusting in that word. And, and I have a hard time reading my Bible sometimes. I think it'd be a universal thing that people struggle with reading their Bible.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How can people take the step to read their Bible? More like, what if someone, if someone were to say, johnny, I don't have motivation to read my Bible, what would you say to that? Because I get asked that all the time.

[B]

So what I teach people is when you starve the flesh, right? Then you will feed the spirit. Likewise, when you feed this the flesh, you will starve the spirit. So what Satan does is when you open your Bible, he attacks the flesh. You get sleepy. That's a normal thing, right? And then the second thing he does is he places expectations inside of you. He will tell you read your Bible and finish your Bible, you know, in a year. Like a Bible in a year. It sounds good. On the surface level, the issue is you'll go strong for like two to three weeks, right? Maybe even a month. But things happen in life. You get distracted. Career choice, whatever, all this other stuff. Work happens, life happens, and then you fall from the consistency. And that's when condemnation enters. Look at you. You call yourself a Christian. You were reading so well for like two, two to three weeks, a month. What's going on here? Again, he works through these thoughts, right? So what I tell people, if you want to read the Bible, I've read the Bible front to back 25 times now. How I do it is I read until I get sleepy. So whether it's 10 verses, 10 chapters or 100 chapters, I, I wait upon the grace of God to give me that strength to fight my flesh, number one. So once I start doing the nodding off, I'm like, all right, I'm going to close the Bible, right? It happens in 10 verses. Sometimes it happens in 100 chapters, right? So you, we live by grace, right? And then. Second thing is, don't have expectations, right? Don't do Bible in a year, five chapters a day. Read the Bible every day. Just open it until you get sleepy. Don't have this expectation and you'll notice you'll go from Genesis to Revelation once, twice, two, three, four. It'll continuously go. And so this, what is what helps people move forward and read the Bible. The last piece of advice is read the Bible to accept, not to understand. Because we're finite individuals, we cannot understand infinite amount of wisdom if you just sit there and read. Faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God. Also reading the word of God. Study to show yourself approved means to just keep reading and you'll notice that this word will just pour into you. If you hang around a barber shop long enough, you're going to get a haircut. If you hang around with gang members, you're probably going to do know nefarious activities. But if you read your Bible enough, you will start to. The Bible will start to bleed into you. And that's, that's the secret that most people don't know.

[A]

Whoa, whoa, that's encouraging. So, so this is a thought I've been having recently, which is. And it was a conversation I was having with Josh the other like literally last night. Can you be a Christian and be depressed?

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. I think it depends, right? It's relative, right. I think depression comes from again, thoughts, right? Because you don't. And in feelings as well. The way that the Bible explains the. The mind is a connection from your brain to your heart. That's what we call the mind. So yes, if you're not renewing your mind every day, you will be depressed. If you're not taking every thought captive. Second Corinthians 10:5 tells us, right? And bringing it to the obedience of Christ, which Jesus Christ in John 1:14 is the Word, right? He's the word that was made flesh and dwelt among us. So if you don't replace and renew your mind every day with scripture, you will fall into this thing called depression, which is all deception, right? So Satan will tell you even though you have the best things in your life, everything's going well. He'll give you those feelings just like John 13:2 where he plants the heart inside of Jesus. Judas to betray Jesus, he can do that with us too. So it's not necessarily a dep. Is depression real? It's if you're not in your word. The byproduct is depression, loneliness, emptiness, fatigue, burnout, all this other stuff that all these Christians are facing, right? So I don't actually believe a true. If you're a true Christian and you're truly in your word, you're not going to be depressed. You're always going to be peaceful because your feelings go up and down, your heart changes, your thoughts change, your perspective changes, but the word of God never changes. So if you want to live happy and based, as we say, you read the Word.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's why I'm not better than people. I have a GED education, high school equivalent. I read King James version, these, Thou's arts, all that other stuff.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's hard to understand, but I read it not because I'm trying to flex on people, because I know if I'm not in my word, I'm in my feelings. And if I'm in my feelings, I don't have the discernment. Hebrews 4:12 literally tells us the word is the discerner.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because, you know, a lot of people say it's the Holy Spirit. Sure, that's one of the gifts. But actually, what's more solid, right. Because Satan can also give feelings and can also come as an unholy spirit and trick you and deceive you. So the word is what discerns. And if you're not in your word, you can't properly 100% discerning.

[A]

Is that how you discern, like, the thoughts? Because I believe that if Jesus lives inside of me that he consumes my thoughts. So I kind of describe it like, if I'm walking down the sidewalk and I see a homeless guy and I feel the unction to give this guy five bucks, I'm like, okay, I selfishly would not do that. But there's some days where I'll have a thought that I don't know if it's a bad thought or a good thought. Like, I just don't know where it's coming from. So you're using the word of God to discern that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How would you compare that? Like, I. I guess I'm trying to find an example. Like. Yeah, what, what, what if it's. What if it's like, should I buy the red truck or the blue truck? You know, like something like that. It's not necessarily sinful. Sure. But it's like, what if. Like, I'm going to go buy a red car today.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And it's like, what if deep down I'm doing that out of a selfish place?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But I don't know yet. What if it's. There is grace for. If that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, it does. So, like, basically, it's not whether you did do this or that, you have to replace your thoughts with the word of God. That is what discerns. So you can't, you have to accept, oh, maybe I can't properly discern things if I don't have the word of God. But to answer your question, there are practical thoughts, right? You have to trust, like, if I'm going to use, you know, if I'm going to go eat, do I want Chipotle or chick fil A? We don't have to be like, okay, God, Holy Spirit, discern me, right? Do I do chick fil A? They close on Sundays. Like, do. It's, it's, it's overthinking at that point. I think there's practical thoughts. But when I say discernment comes from conviction or condemnation. So there's a difference between the two. A lot of people feel like they're convicted, but they're actually being condemned. Romans 8:1 says, There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. That means whenever you have a negative thought or a thought of confusion or fear, that is not from God. That's what the Bible tells us. So if you know the Bible, then you can discern. But some people will think, well, fear is from God. They think it's a warning. But literally, what I've learned is all conviction is always positive. Actually, it's always for the greater good. Condemnation is always negative. It makes you spiral. One thought leads to three thoughts, 10 thoughts, 300 thoughts, and you're just like, I don't want to. What am I doing? I'm feeling horrible. I'm not a good Christian. I'm backsliding. All that is condemnation. God doesn't condemn. He even tells the woman caught in the act of adultery. Neither do I condemn thee. Right. So there is no condemnation in God. We are actually truly liberated and free when we're true biblical Christians who believe in the salvific message. The issue is our thoughts don't tell us that we. We can't discern unless we're in the Word because our feelings, you know, they deceive us.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I think it's something that I struggle to wrap my mind around. There's a verse, I think it's in Proverbs, where it says a righteous man falls seven times, then gets back up. And I have a hard time understanding that because every time I hear that verse, particularly quoted, it's from people that abuse the grace of God.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That literally do the total opposite of what Paul says in Romans 6.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

So what, what does that verse mean when he says like a. Right, when it, when it says a righteous man falls seven times, but gets back up and then follow up question, how can we live in grace without abusing it?

[B]

Good question. So falling seven times, it means that we still have our flesh, right? Paul speaks about it in Romans, chapter 7, verse 15. For that I do the things that I don't want to do, the things that I keep on doing, I don't do the things that I hate, that I do, right? And he explains it in verse 20, that it's the sin that dwelleth inside of me that makes me do these things. And that's clear. And it go. It's synonymous with Proverbs because what it's telling us is when you trust your flesh, you will fall. But we still have an advocate, which in first John, chapter two is Jesus Christ, right? We, we have a person that when we do sin in our flesh, God lifts us up. So a real Christian, if you look at the end result, if they're falling seven times, but they get back up, that means they get up every single time. Does that make sense? So that's what we need to remember. Satan will always make you fall and then be like, stay there. But what this means is, no, I'm. I'm righteous in the eyes of God. God has lifted me up. I don't have to beg for forgiveness. I have to thank him that even though I fail God, you, you still lift me up. You don't condemn me. You don't kill me when I sin. You don't take my arm. You don't even really discipline me. You show me this is why you shouldn't trust yourself. Trust the word of God, right? And then you move forward with that. Now that also ties into the abusing grace first and foremost. What people don't understand is they think that if you sin willfully, so they'll use Hebrews 10:26, for if we sin willfully, you, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. They remove a big chunk of that verse. And that's why we need to know the Bible accurately. It says, for if they sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, then there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. This knowledge of truth is found in Ephesians chapter 1, verse 13. It literally tells you, this is the word of truth, the knowledge of truth, the gospel of your salvation. So true abuse of grace is Jesus through grace, died on the cross and gave it to you. For free before we even asked him to. But you're still claiming. And you don't take the identity of his identity, which is he's righteous, holy and sanctified. You then continuously say, no, I'm a sinner, though, because what you see is sin. What you feel is sin, you think sinfully.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So you accept that that is actually abusing grace. And secondly, people don't sin however they want if they truly come to the position of a sinner. Every person who's met Jesus proclaims the gospel afterwards. It's actually the people who are legalistic that think that they can control their sins. They're the ones who sin willfully because they're reject the the grace of Jesus Christ that is abusing the grace.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's not, oh, do I sin however I want? Why would you sin however you want? For example, Bryce, you got a lot of followers, right? And you're with your girl. How long have you been with her?

[A]

About a year.

[B]

Okay, so prior to you dating her, let's say there's a Instagram baddie or someone who's really beautiful, comes up to you and wants to date you because you're not. You don't have a relationship with your girl at that time. You can date her.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But now that. Let's say you're famous, right. You're Instagram famous. You have other people coming up to you. They think you're handsome, and they come up to you and they go, hey, you know, let's like. They want to, like, cheat. They want you to commit adultery. They want you to fall into your flesh. Even if they're beautiful.

[C]

Right.

[B]

In your eyes, who are you going to think about? The person that you have a relationship with, which is your girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're going to think about her heart, and you're going to be like, dude, I can't do this. No matter how pretty you are, no matter how beautiful you are, you're my type. Whatever. Whatever you're offering. I love her because we have a relationship. Likewise. Why did Jesus die for our sins? To deepen our relationship.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So if he deepens our relationship. Yeah. Before, when I didn't know Jesus, of course I could just sin. I was sinning however I wanted. I was a gang member, I shot at people, been stabbed, been shot, all this stuff. But now that I have Jesus, when Satan the baddie comes and tries to play, hey, let's do this, let's go back to doing coke. Let's know, let's sleep around. I will think about because of my relationship and my Savior, I would not sin however I want. Right? So this is what people misconstrue is they think, oh, I can just sin out. Johnny, you're teaching that we're perfect and righteous. We could just do whatever we want. Absolutely not. If you truly believe and you recognize that you're supposed to burn in hell, which is what I knew. I knew there's a lot of heinous things that I've done. I didn't go to prison at 12 years old for selling strawberry shortcakes. You know, I was obviously, you know, a gang member. So I know that I was. I was supposed to go to hell. And then when I heard this salvific message that you're righteous and you didn't do anything for it, Jesus did it all. Why wouldn't I love him so much? Why wouldn't I give all of my life to get to know him, read the Bible, follow him and all of that, right? So abusing grace, essentially. I'm sorry for the long winded, you know, explanation, but this is very helpful. It's essentially trusting that it's still trusting in yourself. That's how you abuse the grace. Because Jesus says, through grace and through my blood alone, which I shed for you, can you come to me? I am the way, the life, the truth. You can't come to me, right? You can't come to my Father unless it's through me. But people think legalistically, keeping the commandments, doing better, trying harder, that's what's going to get them into heaven. But Jesus came for the sinners. A lot of good people, sadly, are not getting into heaven. The Pharisees were very good people. They kept the laws, they added to the laws. Sadducees and Scribes, they did all of that, but they abused the grace. Because when Jesus came and he was like, I am the Prince of Peace. I am the Messiah, the Messiah, they were like, God of Isaac, Abraham and Jacob is my God. Yeah, you're nothing. And these good people who didn't break the laws, they were condemning people who broke the laws, took him to the cross and crucified him. So this goodness is the abuse of is. Is abusing the great. If you think you're good, you will trust yourself, because you don't trust evil people. And when you trust yourself, you will sin continuously. That's how it is.

[A]

Dang. I feel like the one thing I'm struggling with, though, to like, understand, like, the identity thing, like, I understand what you're saying. And it feels powerful to me, but I feel like if I told myself consistently, I'm just trying to think, because I'm not gonna lie, I did this a lot in 2023. Was, I was, I was telling myself, like, oh, I'm righteous, I'm perfect. I'm righteous, I'm perfect. Which I believe that. I really do believe that.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

But then I, I, I feel like there was a part of me that got prideful. Like, my head got big. I was like, oh, yo, I'm. I'm chilling. And then I just was like, yo, I'm straight up sinless. And then. I'm not going to lie. In 2023. At the end of 2023, I made a knucklehead decision, and I felt the most condemnation I've ever felt in my life because I kept telling myself, oh, you know, I'm. I'm righteous, I'm perfect. I'm righteous, I'm perfect. And I got this big head, and I make a note. Made a knuckle decision, and I felt awful. And so, like, I guess I'm trying to figure out how to wear that label without getting a big head.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But because, like, part of me kind of understands, like, like, I guess when I say, like, the identity of a sinner, like, when I think of salvation, like, coming to Christ, I'm like, okay, I acknowledge that I am a sinner. Like, when I, when I, when I'm, like, surrendering my life to God. Okay, okay. I'm acknowledging right now I'm a dirty sinner and I need you right now. But is there not a part of it that, like, makes you, that keeps you humble, knowing that, like, you're, you're a sinner?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So we can take Paul's stance on this. So Paul, it's arguable, but he essentially wrote 14 epistles.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He had Tertius, he had other people write under him Luke and things like that for Hebrews. But he says, I am the chief of sinners.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Number one. But then. And he also says in 1 Corinthians 15 that he is the least of the least apostles. Let's think about that for a second. He's saying he's a chief sinner. He's in an era where there's Nero and, And this guy is killing a mass murderer. He's saying he's worse than him. Is he actually physically saying that he's worse, like he's murdered more people? No, it's a heart posture thing. Right. So, Paul, we can take from him that he teaches us true humility by remembering who we are without Jesus. So he'll say it In Romans chapter 7 and verse 21 will say, who will save a wretched man like me? I thank God. Jesus.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Who saved me. Right. So as the reason why people like you experienced this and. And appreciate you for sharing that why they get big, big headed is because they forget where they came from. It's the same as King Solomon, when King Solomon came to God before he was a king. I am but a child, he says, I don't know anything. But then he started getting the wisdom and he started to misunderstand that this wisdom from God is now his own wisdom.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, my perfection is not from me. If you strip Jesus away from Johnny Chang, bro, I could just murder people straight up. I'm a very, very, like, hateful person.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Very calculative, very manipulative. But I understand that that's the person I can never trust. That was a person that got crucified in Galatians 2:20. And that's why I move boldly by saying, we're perfected and righteous. But if you forget who you are, Bryce, a person who at 17 can only kill himself. You understand what I'm saying? We can only have anxiety and crippling anxiety and depression and loneliness.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Then you will forever remain humble. Dang. That. That's what it comes down to with me. I'm. I'm going to a church in Austin. We're doing 10,000 people out there. And, you know, we just went to Phoenix and. And you know, 1300 people showed up. And right then and there, Satan creeps in. Johnny, you're doing good. You could preach the gospel, you know, you can do. And as soon as I hear that, I'm like, wow, that's crazy. One of the sisters comes up to me and goes, Johnny, that was such a amazing sermon. And I tell her, straight up, sis, you're too late. So what do you mean? I've been sitting here and I've been watching it the whole time. I said, satan already told me that. She's like, oh, my gosh. So we have to distrust our thoughts. Satan will always. He won't drag you down. He'll boost you so high so that you can fall to your death. That's what it comes down to. Because pride before the fall. So you have to recognize I know the Bible. Not because Johnny knows the Bible, because God has given me the provision and the grace to do so. But you can only do that by remembering who you are without Jesus Christ. And that's what I always remember.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I know who I am without Jesus. I'm not a person who cares about anybody. Very narcissistic, very selfish, very cunning, very lustful. But at the same time, God saved a person like me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he, instead of killing me because I'm supposed to die, he killed his son for me. Why would I then trust that same person? And this is where you assume that identity of moving with humility but also boldness.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Makes sense.

[A]

No, that makes so much sense.

[C]

So that.

[A]

So, like, that whole 2023. 2023, I was, like, doing that, and then that happened, and I was like, oh, that sucks. So then all of 2024 to. I don't know if you remember when we did the group podcast with George, that's what I was opening up to. I was feeling so much pressure and, like, because I'm like. I kind of like, for me, I'm hardwired, super logical. So I'm just like, it's got to be one extreme or the other. So then I'm like, if that didn't work, let me just try to, like, strongman all my faith just being how much I can know and learn. And so now I feel like from start of January, like December, November, January, I'm on this slow process of trying to, like, figure out there's got to be a balance of both, you know, and that's. That was all super helpful.

[C]

Thank you, bro.

[A]

So something I struggle with a lot personally is overthinking. I'm a very big overthinker, and.

[C]

It.

[A]

Like, will ruin moments, it'll ruin things. I'll like. Like something so innocent can be shared with me. And then I'll take it to the extreme in my brain, and then it'll make me sad or it'll make me feel confused or make me feel like, oh, this person doesn't care about me. How can I take action steps to overcome the overthinking.

[B]

Sure. So overthinking is the same as. The difference between overthinking and deep thinking is the same as conviction and condemnation. Overthinking will always leave you, as you say, confused, fearful, angry, frustrated, sad, lonely, miserable. Deep thinking is always empathetic at its core. It's always positive.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So, for example, one time I was driving, you know, this was prior to me finding God. You know, I had a BMW, and I would always drive without my seat belt. And, you know, I was just horrible like that, Right. And I would drive 90, 95, 100. And I looked down on my phone one time, I'm going on the freeway. I'm doing, like, blazing 95, almost 100. And I look up, and I guess there was just like that sudden stop of traffic in la, and I couldn't stop myself in time. But that day, I remember putting on my seat belt, right. For some reason, it's all God, obviously, but, you know, and I crashed. I totaled the car, but I walked out unscathed.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And the window, like, I felt the sheer force where the window, like, busted open. And I felt like if I didn't have my seatbelt on, I would have flew out. I would have been dead.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So every time I think about that overthinking, for example, in this situation would be, God, you're so stupid. Why do you speed? You're an idiot. You don't deserve to drive.

[C]

You're.

[B]

It's all negative, right? You're like, why do you do this? Like, you're. You're dumb, right? And then it would cause confusion, frustration. But every time I think about that, deep thinking would be, man, God, thank you for allowing me to. Although I crashed and I was a knucklehead, you saved my life with the seat belt. Hope and peace comes out of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you want to see the difference between overthinking and deep thinking, most people think they're deep thinkers, but they're actually overthinkers.

[C]

You.

[B]

You gauge it with negativity or positivity, Right. It's very simple to. It's like actionable steps. Once you sit there, Bryce, and you think, you know, just to help you out, if you start to feel that fear, condemnation, frustration, you know, Right. Then, oh, I've entered overthinking. I need to stop. Like, I don't need to go anymore because this is just going to lead me to be. To be spiraling and rabbit hole after rabbit hole and feeling some type of way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what helps me. Because Satan will give you these thoughts.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And to combat that thought, you would think about that. Right. Okay. Am I. Is this negative at its core? It is.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Then if it's negativity, I don't need that. And right there, you draw the line in your heart and. And it stops everything. And. And it's just like riding a bike, you know, when you first started distrusting your thoughts, all the things that I'm teaching, it's going to be hard. You're gonna fall, scrape your knee. You may mess up again. But the more you repeat and you do this right? The more just like riding a bike, it becomes part of you, and you learn that skill for life.

[C]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

It's the same with distrusting your thoughts or differentiated between what's overthinking and deep thinking, condemnation, conviction. And that actually helps you. And you get to a point where you're at this level where I'm at, where it's like, oh, I know exactly what. When Satan comes in with this thought, I can. I can forsake it right away.

[A]

Is there, like, an action step that you're doing to draw the line? Are you, like, praying? Are you, like, speaking life over you? Are you quoting scripture?

[B]

I think. Me, I think in verses, which is crazy, right? Like, that's why I read the Bible, because, like, every time you ask a question, there will be, like, a million verses that pop up. And that's what happens when you keep reading the Bible. The Bible. So for me, the line and the discernment, as you say, is the scripture. And then there's times where it will go blank, Right? There's times where you're like, dude, I don't know what's. Then, of course, prayer. And also speaking life.

[C]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

And I. And I talked about this on George Jenko's podcast, Avengers podcast, why God took Adam and, you know, told him to name all the animals. Because in Proverbs 18 talks about there's power and, like, life and death and the power of your tongue. So, like, you have to speak that out, you know, like, oh, I'm overthinking right now.

[C]

Right.

[B]

In the name of Jesus. I don't want to overthink. Father God, please help me through your grace to not think so, you know, negatively, but please replace my thoughts, because I can't do it. You have to do it for me. Right?

[A]

So, yeah, so when we were in Phoenix at, like, George's house, and we were all hanging out, it blew me away. I've never seen anyone do this the way you did it. And that's why I'm asking this question. This is before the podcast. Everyone's talking. We're in group settings talking. And you're just sitting there listening. You're observing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I even asked you about it. You said you were a big observer and listener, and even when we're on the podcast, you're just kind of listening and listening. And it was very specific on what you said. It was, like very. Almost, like, calculated. Like, just, like, very precise this. And there it is. And then you were done. Or. Or, like, we would be on the podcast. And it was kind of awkward because George was like, you just speak whatever you want. And it was be kind of awkward. And you and I think Angela spoke at the same time. And you go, no, sister. You go. And I know, like, me, like, I. I know any. Any group setting. It's like the natural human nature is to. I got to say what I got to say. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've never seen anyone be so slow to speak.

[B]

How.

[A]

How did you. I'm phrasing the question like it's like a math equation, but how did you master that? I've never seen anyone do it like that.

[B]

I think what I've learned is that you can never misinterpret silence, right? So there's a lot of leakage that people like when someone speaks for me, at least I can say I can see where their subconscious is. I can see where their heart is. It's called a heart posture. So I've learned through the Bible. James, chapter three, you quoted, right? Be slow to speak, slow to anger, quick to listen, right? That's really important because in Ecclesiastes, it talks about that, too. But it's when you sit there and you let somebody speak, they're just going to pour everything out. And then it's almost like the way I see it is like I'm like a spiritual heart doctor. Like, I'm just waiting for them to, like, like, diagnose it, know. And it's not from a level of authority, or I'm better, but I've just noticed, like, okay, God, I'm going to listen to what they have to say, and then you give me the Scripture and literally verses will come out, right? Like, there was a point where George and Ruslan were. Was getting into the hell debate. And I knew, like, we're checkboxing God right now. We're basically saying, okay, God, if this is true, make it make sense to me. And if you noticed, I was like, you know, George, like, we're trying to checkbox God straight up. Like, we're finite individuals trying to understand an infinite thing. You've already said that even if he does send to people and torture them forever, you would believe him regardless, right? It's because we're trusting our thoughts, right? Because when he sat there, I kept thinking of Isaiah 64, where all our righteousness, including our thoughts, everything from us is like filthy rags. But George was trying to understand, right? Make it make sense to me. Make it make sense to me. Well, then what makes us different? Than an atheist or an agnostic. God doesn't call us to walk by sight and things to confirm him, even though it doesn't make sense. We are called to walk by faith and believe him.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So. So I could see that. And what that helped me recognize and how I hone in on that skill is just recognizing that people will share their hearts and you don't. You don't. Like, I don't have to step on the toes, you know, I don't have to. And why I let Angela do that is. Is because I've learned that just let people talk, and they will express their hearts. They will show you everything that's in their heart.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you can. Then, you know, and I'm the same. Like, I used to cut people off. I used to have, like, main character energy, you know, And I used to just be like, yo, I got to say this. I got to say that. But if you listen to people, you actually gain a lot more than. Than actually speaking.

[C]

Dang.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was something I really admired about you. It was just so. Yeah, it was so interesting. Like, I. I feel like it's very rare now. I think my last question I had for you, I'm kind of selfish because I'm asking questions for myself.

[B]

No worries.

[A]

You move in peace, man, you're so calm.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What does it look like to move in peace? Like, how. How can we move in peace? Because something I'm still trying to wrap my brain around is I feel like this correlates. Like, I was telling Cliff, even on the podcast, I was like, yo, I struggle with my frustration and my anger. And then Cliff was like, you don't make me angry. I give you the power to make me angry. And I was like, shoot, like, that kind of makes sense.

[B]

True.

[A]

But how can I continue to move in peace? Or how could I move in peace and be calm and things like that. Or. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.

[B]

It ties back into, like, taking. Not taking ownership for what Satan has planted inside of you. So you don't want to. Obviously, you want to be peaceful, but there's times where you. You're just not. And that's what it goes all the way back to. Distrusting your thoughts and your feelings. Because if you trust yourself, then you will take ownership of that intrusive thought or that anger or that frustration when it's not even yours.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I. The way I explain it is, like, if you're shopping in. In a grocery store and you have a shopping cart full of your items, and someone just comes and throws in, like, a can of beans. You're going to be like, yo, this is not mine. Like, you take it out and be like, yo, don't do that again.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We do that with our shopping carts, but we don't do that with our minds. Satan drops things inside of us, and we're like, oh, yeah, I want to eat beans.

[A]

You understand?

[B]

He'll drop in. You're frustrated. Oh, yeah, I'm frustrated. Amen. That's something that's very dangerous.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you learn, oh, this is not from me. I don't want to feel angry right now. Oh, then I know right then and there, it's not from me. It's from Satan. If I follow this, I'm gonna be angry. So it's thinking deeply about your thoughts. And then that's essentially what Cliff was saying.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He was saying that don't give it power, and I'll go deeper by saying it's not even about giving it power. We're taking ownership and making it ours when it's not even ours. So we have to recognize that. So, yeah. Do I get angry? Of course. Do I get lustful? Absolutely. But I think about it deeply. Wait a minute. If I trust this, what is this going to lead to?

[C]

Right?

[B]

It'll lead me, sure. It may be happy. But let's weigh this out for a second. If I do, let's say a line of coke. Will I just do a line of coke? Absolutely not. I'll do an eight ball, and then I'll start drinking. And when I get drunk, I get lustful. Then that will lead me to this. Now, what about core of the heart, which is my digital congregation about good news, my church, they're going to. I'm going to have hundreds of thousands of people following me, and that's through that one line of coke. And following that thought, it's going to ruin everybody's heart. Of like, man, Johnny walks with peace. He understands. And even if he. He could fall, there's no hope for me.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I kind of learned to really think deeply. Whereas Satan, through technology chat, GBT, iPad.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Which is babysitters for kids nowadays, he makes you not think, and that's his strongest weapon. So if you don't think deeply, you're only going to accept everything that comes to your mind. And that's exactly how he deceives everybody in this world.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like you just spoke my language because I'm deathly afraid of airplanes. Especially, like, with everything that's going on. Like, dude, I'm telling you, we. I was getting on a plane, and I looked at your Instagram story, and it was, like, the most beautiful sunset outside the window and brahmos, freaking out. I'm like, dude, this is not. That's not me. Like, if you ask Maddie, my girlfriend, like, how I'm. I'm on planes. Like, I'm not brave. I am not brave. Like. Like, it is not good. I'm, like, shutting the window. Everybody else got their window up, and mine is shut. Like, it's crazy. And so. And. And, you know, I'm gonna be honest. Like, I don't like living like that because, like, you know, it's an airplane. And it's. I feel like right now, if I'm being honest, Satan is using all the stuff that's happening with airplanes right now course. To instill the fear of, like, that's gonna be you.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And is so. It's so hard not to think that way, because I feel like he's disguising it not as, like, his voice, but as, like, bad news. And so because it's bad news and because it's happening all the time, it doesn't. It's. It's hard for me to discern him planning that. You see what I'm saying? You're like, well, it's not from him. And in my mind, I'm like. I'm recognizing. I'm seeing that now, but it's hard to be, like, it. It's not like, you know, a handsome guy trying to whisper in my ear. It's like, oh. I open up my phone because I'm waiting five minutes to board, and, oh, crap, you know, someone reposts a video of this airplane, and I'm like, are you kidding me? And it always happens right there. And I'm just. I'm like, that's the thing that I'm struggling with the most. Like, I resonate with everything you're saying. And that's the hard thing that I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm wrestling with right now is how can I discern that when I feel like it's all packaged in such a way it doesn't seem.

[B]

It doesn't seem subtle.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. It still has to do with not being in our word, right? Because the word of God tells us that he protects us, right? We're under his wings. He cannot let those types of things happen to you. But Satan and God also says he doesn't give us a Spirit of confusion. Neither does he give us a spirit of fear. So when, again, when you feel confusion, when you feel fear, it is not from God, no matter how much it makes sense.

[C]

Right.

[B]

If I lace this with cyanide and it's your favorite drink, let's say, no matter how and you know that it's cyanide, you're not going to drink it even if it's your favorite drink.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Yeah, same thing. The thought makes so much sense, but it doesn't, it's still the end result is fear and ultimately death.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's, it's, it makes you stagnant.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Inconsistent. So you have to, you know, it takes time. But this is what I help people with when I do my one on one mentors. Like I work with pastors in 90 different countries. Pastors have the same thing. Johnny, I get what you're saying, but I'm not at that level. Like, I still trust like what I'm thinking and it's, it's, it makes so much sense to me and I'm like. But because you trust that above what the word says.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Like you know about the word, but it enters here, it doesn't enter here.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So we have to humble ourselves and recognize. Wait a minute. If it's really hard for you, you have to start with prayer. You have to acknowledge one thing. Oh, it's hard for me. I know what you're saying, God, but this is why I'm wretched, is because although your word is true, I still feel like my thoughts and the way it's packaged makes more sense than your word. Why? Because you've been groomed. You're 21, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

At the age for 21 years, by Satan telling you one thing. It's not going to just happen overnight where you distrust your thoughts.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But Satan even plants that expectation. Okay, Bryce, you're in your word now. You, you got to conquer this. You got to do this. He makes us work.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So you just have to recognize, oh, I'm a person who, I need God. Cuz. Let's say you could conquer your fears. You could quote scripture all the time. You, you know, didn't struggle with anything. Why would you need God? You found God at your lowest point. And me too. We all find God at our lowest point. But Satan, the way what he plants inside of us is his heart to be the most high. Think about it. Satan was in heaven. He had everything that he wanted. He was, he was a nakash, a cherubim, seraphim, which Is one of the, a seraphim, right? He was a very, very high ranking angel and he was a guardian to the throne. He had everything. He was only number two to God essentially, right? God and Trinity is one. So he had everything, but he was the one that rebelled the most. He's like a spoiled kid, right? So we asked God to give us provision to make like more peace and you know, all that. It's the same as like what Satan did. He had everything, but he rebelled against God. When we have everything we want without the fear, you don't go to God. You get what I'm saying? Like, we'll just trust in ourselves more. So God loves us. He allows us to have these challenges which ties back into the righteous falling down. He will let us fall to remember who we are. He could remove the sins like that. He could have our sinful nature change, but he doesn't do it. Why? Because that's the exact thing that ties into humility, humbles us and makes us realize, oh, this is why I need my Savior.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

So dang, that's, that's really helpful. I, I sorry, I got another question. So I, I read Psalm 63 and King David's like, yo, I long to be with you Lord, but I'm in a dry and thirsty land. And I've noticed in my own life, like I could be, I could feel so close to Jesus the night before, feel his presence, everything. And then I wake up and I'm like, bro, what is going on? Yeah, how do you win the morning as a Christian and not let sin? Because I feel like when you wake up, when you wake up and like at the end of the day your willpowers decrease. And then in the morning, like you're kind of like, you know, until you get sharp. It like takes a second to get sharp. How do you win the morning?

[B]

As a Christian, it tells us to set our scales back to zero, right? And what that means is God hates a broken scale. Say for example, you put a five pound weight on a scale and you pull it off, it should go to zero. But our hearts are not like that. When we receive blessings, waking up in the morning, things like that, our heart should be zero, but it's not. It's at still focused on the blessings from before. And so this is what causes us to not be thankful. When gratitude fades, pride and like expectation rises. You get what I'm saying? So that's why it ties back into what I said earlier, which is not trusting your thoughts and really remembering who you Are Bryce. We're not people that deserve to live if we're, we're being real. None of us in, in this room do. Why? Because we were natural enemies of God. But instead of killing us, he killed Jesus. So if you just remember that now, you may not have been in prison or a gang member, right? You got some tattoos. Yeah, yeah, but we were imprisoned in something, right? I was in prison physically, also spiritually, mentally, you as well, right? Except the physical part. And so those people, people like us, were freed by Jesus. If you just think about that, you'd be so happy. Like, wow, I can. Not only am I allowed to preach the gospel, I'm speaking in front of, you know, asu, I'm going to Austin. I'm doing that. Lord, I'm a person who's a pitiful person. I can't even get myself out of depression, anxiety and loneliness. And when you start to think about it from that perspective, the grace of God, the gratitude starts to grow. But God, you let me walk on these stages, you keep me humble. You have. Because of you, I am happy, you know, so this is kind of what it comes down to, you know, you have to just remember who you are and that will make you wake up every single morning.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I did short term missionary in Liberia, Africa, and the kids there taught me how to be thankful truly God through them. So at this time, you know, I was complainful because I'm like, bro, I got six months. You know, I've been out of prison for a little bit, but they want me to go there for six months in Africa, a country that I don't speak and we're pretty crazy. They gave me a one way ticket and the pastor said, if, if God doesn't work to get you back to where you need to be, then rip up the Bible, don't believe in him. So it was a no money witnessing trip is what we call it, right? You go and, and you just literally have to walk by faith, right? And that was hard for me. This is like year two, year three for me in my walk, right? So I was like, bro, you're like making me sink or swim essentially. So I get there and automatically I'm complainful. It's hot out there. We're eating one meal a day. We, we have to hike two to three miles one way to get our water, come back and. But yet what I noticed about the kids was there's like 50 kids in the village and they were playing with the soccer ball, but it wasn't even a soccer ball. It was a beach towel rolled up in duct tape, and they were playing with, like, you know, sandals, and they were dancing. And I'm like, bro, I have running water in the States, right? I don't have to hike. I literally can eat three meals a day, five meals a day if I want to. But why is my heart not as happy and as joyous as them? It's because it was a heart issue. They were so thankful for the gospel. They were so thankful to even be alive. They didn't even have time to think about depression or poverty. They were living it, but they were so much happier than I was. So I recognized, oh, this is not a. Whether I have more money, right? Like, a full bank account does not fill an empty heart, right? So I'm like, it doesn't matter. Like, it's their heart posture. They're thankful for everything. And it's because they love God. They truly believe. Like, wow, God came to our village and told us about the gospel. And that really changed something inside of me when I came back here. That's how I move, with peace. Of course, Satan attacks, right? He's, oh, you got to get this. You don't have enough this. But again, comes back to remembering who you are. That's what's going to help you stay humble. Satan boosts you up, though. No, Bryce, you're doing good. You preach the gospel well. Look at all these people. You're working now and you got all these, like, if you do that, Satan will puff you up to where you can't. Even the blessings that come to. To you, you wouldn't be thick, wouldn't be thankful for, because you know, you'd want more and more and more. It's sensational, right?

[C]

Dang.

[A]

That's encouraging. Especially with the thing in Africa. Like, I didn't even know you were on a mission trip. Have you ever talked about that before?

[C]

I have.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. But it's not. I don't talk about it often.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so powerful. It's so. I feel the same way. I've been on, like, a couple out of country mission trips, and it's like, it's just so crazy, the gratitude that they have.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's insane. And it was. It's always like. And I only went for a week. I didn't. I never did six months. But it was like, with my school, and at the beginning of the week, it was like, really? Like, it's high. And then by the end of the week, I was like, I don't want to leave this place, which is so crazy to think about, but it's for a lack of better terms, like the charisma, the energy, the positivity that they carry, the gratitude. It's. It's contagious promise. Last question. How do you deal with, I think, what I notice, like, whenever I go home and I have an amazing pastor, and whenever I look at pastors and churches and things like that, I feel like oftentimes, from a Christian leadership perspective, a lot of stuff is transactional with relationships in the sense that, like, to some extent, a lot of people that talk to you or talk to pastors, it's, I'm going through this right now, or I need my spiritual health. And it's like, transactional. And then technically, for you, I mean, like, you're leading the core of the heart and all these things. And for you, you're not, like, gaining anything out of it. How do you. I don't know, because I'm not. I don't think anything's an eye for an eye. But, like, how does it not get draining, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It, again, ties back into remembering who I am.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm not even supposed to be out for the crimes that I've done. I should do a hundred years and I should burn.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So I recognize that every single day I'm out of prison, it gives me a heart to be like, man, I'm only here because of my pastor, Pastor Kim, who poured love into me. Why wouldn't I reciprocate it to people? There's a lot of Johnny Changs out there, right? There's a lot of Bryce, where they're in their anxiety and their depression and loneliness crushes them and it cripples them. So for me, like, I know it's not my heart, you know, God has given me that heart to be like, look, what makes God happy in First Timothy, chapter two, in First Corinthians, chapter two, what's good to God is for people to be saved. He wants all men to come to the knowledge, right. And of salvation, essentially. And so when I think about it, like, I want to please God. I do. Not because I. It's a transactional thing, but because he saved my life, right, when he pulled me out of literally the pits of hell and transfer me, transfer me into heaven, right. As a citizen. So when I think about that, there are so many people who poured into me. Pastor, Pastor John, Pastor Kim, all these other pastors. Why wouldn't I pour it pour into other people? And a lot of people question me, you Know, they. They make videos, they do all this type of stuff, because they don't. It's either jealousy or whatever it is, right? It's the enemy. But I've learned to tune all of that out and say amen to all of that, because without God, that's who I am anyways. A heretic who doesn't believe in God, a lustful person, a gang member, and, you know, all of that. Right? So I've learned to just acknowledge that everything does come from God, to remain humble. And then I don't burn out, because then I start to feel like this is a. It's almost like a. A privilege, bro, to be able to preach the gospel. We have churches in China and there's underground churches. We have underground churches in Arab countries, too. For us to even sit here and have a podcast and not worry about, you know, people coming in and then taking us away and giving us a hundred years for, you know, expressing our faith is a blessing. So when you think about it from. It's a perspective shift, but also a heart posture. Like, there's so many of my brothers and sisters, part of our mission, that are literally have been to prison for preaching the gospel.

[C]

And.

[B]

And. And I'm like, yo, I'm not even on that level, respectfully. So, you know, to me, that's gangster.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[B]

And I'm like. So I'm like, I. I just. I'm just thankful to be able to preach this precious gospel, to see somebody's soul, literally see the chains break right in front of you, to be able to pour and nurture into people. I used to think people were weird when they would have, like, succulents and plants and stuff. I'm like, why would you waste your time watching this stuff, like, grow, bro? And if I'm planting plants, I'm planting cannabis. Like, I'm trying to make money off of that. But it's like. Like now I understand, though, because when I see people start from being, you know, in their depression and just four months later, completely free, it does something to me. It's like a currency that is priceless. Right? So that's what keeps me from burning out, is remembering who I am without Jesus.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Distrusting my thoughts, that I'm tired and whatever, and just being grateful that man, a wretched, dirty, evil person like me, a sinner who is now saved, gets to preach this precious gospel, gets to walk on the ground and the foundation of the apostles, like Apostle Paul and Peter and all that. A person like me, oh, man. That's so like what a privilege it is.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's the legends of faith, as they say.

[C]

Right.

[B]

The faith, the hall of faith, not the hall of fame.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that's how I feel genuinely. And I don't know, it's just a heart thing. I'm just thankful.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

What does it mean to another question. But I always hear. So when I read John 8, he says, and you know the truth and the truth will set you free. And, and then he says, a slave is temporary, but a son is forever. And I think that's so powerful.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What does it mean to be free from sin? Does it mean, does it mean sinlessness or does it mean like just that the fact that it's got a hold on you?

[B]

It's both actually literally means like if you look at Romans chapter 6, verse 14, it says, for sin shall have no dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace. Being free from sin is recognizing that you're under grace, that you didn't do anything. Jesus 2000 years ago did everything and he made you come up to heaven with him. We have, we're coairs to the throne. Two crowns, one throne.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So he's made us a royal priesthood as well. And that's what true freedom is, is, you know, being free from sin is recognizing that, you know, no matter what we do, it's not counted against us. Now again, doesn't mean you can go and do whatever you want. But if you just sit, sit and let that sink in. Oh my gosh, it doesn't matter what I do. I can't do anything to, you know, reverse the shedding of the blood that you gave freely for everybody. God, thank you so much for that. Cuz you knew that we couldn't keep the commandments. That's why in Matthew 5 you said, I didn't come to abolish the law, I came to establish the law. Why did Jesus have to establish the law? Because we couldn't, you know, why did he? Why does he have to die for us? Cuz we can't die. We'll die on our sins and go to hell. And why does he rise? Because we can't live without him. So it's all Jesus centered.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But sadly a lot of people try to take that because it feels good to follow the commandments. It feels good to work for something and then sit behind and go, look what I did. I read the Bible. I did X, Y and Z. Understand? And that's why the Pharisees Couldn't accept him because they wanted works. They were showing this the synagogues, and they had the drip, you know, and they were like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. The is basically.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And they couldn't accept that Jesus was like, no matter what you do, respectfully, it doesn't compare to my work. And without me, you're not getting to heaven. That made them want to murder him, basically. Right? And they did. So I think it's very important for people to recognize that sin is freedom from you trying to do anything and recognizing that God, through Jesus, did everything already. That's why he hangs on the cross and says, it is finished. He doesn't say, it's a deposit, do better, and then you'll get your money back. He doesn't say, it's a loan with interest, pay me back. He literally says, it is finished.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And so he's. And then he sits down, Right? Because he sat down on the throne. What do we do when we sit? We rest.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Because there's no more work to do. But sadly, Satan of this world, God of this world, right? The prince of the power of the air tells people, work harder, do better. So that when you who is imperfect tries to be perfect, you fail. And when you fail, your spirit is broken. And then Satan can just drag you and do whatever he wants with you. That's what it comes down to at the end of the day.

[C]

Shoot.

[A]

Yeah, I guess that makes. That makes a lot of sense. That's encouraging. I appreciate that. Thanks for explaining that, answering my questions and. And giving your time because you can't get it back. So thanks for coming on.

[B]

No worries.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[B]

Pleasure, man.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I love you, man. It was so fun to get to hang and chat and Phoenix and get to know you better. Spend some time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, man. Thanks for coming on. Thank you guys so much for watching listening to the episode. If you guys like listen to these episodes, follow us on everything Bryce Crawford podcast. Johnny, thanks for coming on. Appreciate you. And we'll see you guys next time. Guys, thank you so much for watching and tuning into these episodes. Guys, if you love watching and listening to these episodes, aside from following us along on Instagram, tick tock, Spotify, YouTube, I want to ask you guys, would you guys consider partnering with our ministry financially? Your guys's radical generosity is actually what continues to fuel and produce these podcast episodes and our evangelism videos. So if you guys feel a burden to support this ministry, reach lost souls with the gospel through digital and in person ministry. Go to jesusinthestreet.org pray and ask God, how should I partner with with Bryce and their ministry and Jesus in the street ministry? Should I partner with them in prayer? Should I partner with them in finances? Should I partner with them and support whatever it may be? Pray and ask God how should I support Jesus in the street ministry? Love you guys. See you guys next week. For the next episode.