The Bryce Crawford Podcast – EP 87: The Johnny Chang Interview

Date: March 17, 2025
Host: Bryce Crawford
Guest: Johnny Chang (Minister, Online Church Leader)

Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and spiritually charged episode, Bryce Crawford welcomes Johnny Chang—a minister with a testimony marked by redemption and transformation. Forgoing the usual lengthy background story, the duo dives straight into impactful discussions on Christian identity, overcoming sin, reading Scripture, dealing with depression, and practical discipleship. Listeners are treated to Johnny’s raw honesty, precise scriptural insight, and lived wisdom about walking faithfully with Christ after a dark past, all while maintaining humility. The conversation flows like a pastoral mentorship, focusing heavily on grace, peace, and the nuances of true Christian living versus lukewarm religiosity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Johnny Chang’s Testimony: Brief but Powerful

• [01:50] Johnny’s Upbringing:
  Grew up in a challenging environment (Section 8 housing, atheist father, Buddhist mother, physical abuse).
• [02:22] Gang & Incarceration:
  Joined a gang at age 12; in prison from 12 to 25. Became a Muslim inside, reading the Quran and Bible deeply.
• [03:42] Out of Prison, Still Empty:
  Achieved material “success,” but remained empty and attempted suicide three times.
• [05:00] Encounter with Christian Love:
  Profound shift after experiencing non-judgmental, gospel-centered love at a church, leading to a revelation of identity in Christ.
• [06:08] "Sin as Identity":
  “Sin was an identity, not an action…You're born as a sinner through Adam, and that's why you keep messing up. But your new identity is in Christ.” – Johnny [05:00]

2. Leaving Islam & Spiritual Emptiness

• [06:32] Why Johnny Left Islam:
  • In prison, sincere questions were discouraged.
  • Despite religious devotion, still felt emotional emptiness.
  • “There’s something inside of me that is like God sized hole and I just can't fill it.” – Johnny [07:23]
• Bryce’s Relatability:
  Shared his own past struggles with suicide and religious seeking.

3. Breaking Sin Strongholds & The Power of Belief

• [08:36] On Breaking Sin Cycles:
  • Quoted John 16:9 and 2 Corinthians 5:17.
  • Main barrier: Trusting personal thoughts over God’s Word.
  • “If you're not in your Word, you're in your feelings...That is literally demonic doctrine.” – Johnny [10:16]
• [09:57] Practical Steps:
  • Read the Bible daily to counteract trusting fleeting emotions or condemnation.
  • Surface-level fixes aren’t enough; root issue is lack of trust in scripture.

4. Motivation & Methods for Bible Reading

• [11:40] Encouraging Consistency:
  • Avoid legalistic expectations (e.g., “Read Bible in a Year” plans which lead to guilt).
  • “I read until I get sleepy…whether it’s ten verses or a hundred chapters.” – Johnny [12:13]
  • Read “to accept, not to understand”—let scripture wash over you, don't force comprehension.
  • “If you hang around a barber shop long enough, you're going to get a haircut. If you read your Bible enough, you will start to…the Bible will start to bleed into you.” – Johnny [13:41]

5. Can Christians Be Depressed?

• [14:21] Biblically, Yes/No?
  • “If you’re a true Christian and you’re truly in your Word, you’re not going to be depressed. You're always going to be peaceful…” – Johnny [15:35]
  • Depression seen as a byproduct of not renewing your mind with scripture (2 Corinthians 10:5).
  • The key is not feelings but standing on the unchanging Word.
  • The Word, not feelings, is the chief discerner (Hebrews 4:12).

6. Discerning Thoughts, Conviction vs. Condemnation

• [17:00, 19:08] Practical Discernment:
  • “Our feelings deceive us. There is no condemnation in God.”
  • Conviction from God always positive; condemnation negative, spiraling.
  • Discernment comes from knowledge of scripture, not personal feelings.

7. Grace, Identity, and Not Abusing the Gospel

• [19:42] Living in Grace:
  • “Falling seven times” doesn’t legitimize willful sin; it recognizes the reality of the flesh (Romans 7:15).
  • Real error isn't in stumbling, but in staying down, or misusing grace by refusing the identity Christ gives.
  • “True abuse of grace is…continuously say[ing], ‘No, I'm a sinner though.’” – Johnny [21:54]
  • Grace deepens relationship, not legalistic striving: “If you knew you were supposed to burn in hell…and then you hear you’re righteous…why wouldn’t you love him so much?” – Johnny [23:19]

8. Maintaining Humility Without Losing Boldness

• [26:55] Paul’s Example:
  • “I am the chief of sinners…It’s a heart posture thing.” – Johnny [27:12]
  • Recognizing who you are without Jesus keeps pride at bay even when embracing your new identity.
  • Satan’s tactics include puffing you up only to facilitate a harder fall.

9. Overthinking vs. Deep Thinking

• [31:03] Practical Framework
  • Overthinking = always leads to negativity; deep thinking = empathetic and positive.
  • Gauge it: If thoughts spiral to fear/loneliness, you’re overthinking—draw the line immediately.
  • “Once you sit there…if you start to feel that fear, condemnation, frustration…oh, I've entered overthinking. I need to stop.” – Johnny [33:09]

10. Moving in Peace, Not Frustration

• [39:31]
  • Don’t take ownership of negative thoughts/feelings.
  • “Someone throws in a can of beans in your cart, you take it out. Satan does that with thoughts; don’t accept them as yours.” – Johnny [40:44]
  • Peace comes from rejecting thoughts not rooted in truth, and deeply considering consequences.

11. Dealing with Fear and Anxiety

• [42:27] Bryce’s Airplane Anxiety Example:
  • Recognize that “not every thought is yours; Satan disguises fear as logic or news.”
  • “God doesn’t give us a spirit of confusion or fear…if it leads to fear or death, it’s not from God.” – Johnny [44:14]

12. Winning the Morning & Practicing Gratitude

• [48:04] Starting Your Day Right:
  • “Set your scale to zero.” Focus on gratitude every morning, remember your need for Jesus.
  • Story from missionary work in Liberia: true gratitude is heart posture, not dependent on external circumstances.

13. Avoiding Burnout as a Christian Leader

• [54:05] Pouring Into Others:
  • “Every single day I’m out of prison, it gives me a heart to be like…I’m only here because of my pastor…Why wouldn’t I reciprocate it to people?” – Johnny [54:15]
  • Ministry isn’t transactional; it’s a privilege.

14. Freedom from Sin

• [58:13] John 8: Knowing the Truth
  • “Free from sin” = both not under its power and not in bondage to condemnation.
  • “He doesn’t say, it’s a deposit, do better…He literally says, It is finished.” – Johnny [60:37]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scripture Over Feelings:
  “If you're not in your Word, you're in your feelings…That is literally demonic doctrine.” – Johnny [10:16]

• On Grace:
  “True abuse of grace is…continuously say[ing], ‘No, I'm a sinner though.’” – Johnny [21:54]

• On Identity & Humility:
  “My perfection is not from me. If you strip Jesus away from Johnny Chang, bro, I could just murder people straight up.” – Johnny [28:14]

• On Moving in Peace:
  “Satan drops things inside of us, and we're like, oh, yeah, I want to eat beans…We do that with our shopping carts, but we don't do that with our minds.” – Johnny [40:44]

• On Ministry as Privilege:
  “I used to think people were weird...watching a plant grow…Now I understand…seeing someone freed is a currency that is priceless.” – Johnny [56:39]

• On Freedom from Sin:
  “He doesn’t say, it’s a deposit, do better…He literally says, It is finished.” – Johnny [60:37]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:50] – Johnny summarizes his story/testimony
• [03:42] – Out of prison, struggling with emptiness despite material gain
• [05:00] – Life-changing encounter at a church
• [06:32] – Leaving Islam, why spiritual structure alone wasn’t enough
• [08:36] – How to break a sin stronghold
• [11:40] – Overcoming lack of motivation to read the Bible
• [14:21] – Can a Christian be depressed?
• [17:00] – Discernment: condemnation vs. conviction
• [19:42] – Not abusing grace, “falling seven times”
• [26:55] – Avoiding spiritual pride while embracing Christian identity
• [31:03] – Overcoming overthinking
• [39:31] – Moving in peace, not in anger or frustration
• [42:27] – Coping with anxiety and external fear (e.g., plane phobia)
• [48:04] – “Winning the morning”; daily gratitude
• [54:05] – Avoiding burnout in ministry
• [58:13] – What it means to be free from sin

Episode Tone

The conversation is honest, raw, and peppered with both scripture and practical real-life wisdom. Johnny is transparent about his past and current struggles, but overflows with gratitude and humility, constantly redirecting all credit to Christ. Bryce asks questions that many modern believers (especially younger Christians) wrestle with, creating a relatable and heartfelt dialogue. The tone is both challenging and uplifting, offering hope and actionable steps.

For Listeners

This episode is a deep dive into not just Christian theology but the practicalities of life as a transformed believer. Johnny’s story and insights make it especially valuable for anyone wrestling with identity, condemnation, striving, and spiritual routines. The perspectives shared here cut through performance-based Christianity and legalism, pointing listeners to a freedom and peace that are found only in relationship with Christ.

Recommended Listen if:

• You’re struggling with shame, religious legalism, burnout, or “not feeling enough.”
• You want to understand Christian identity, grace, and how to practically walk in victory.
• You’re ready for more than surface-level Christian talking points.